highaltitude.log.20110224

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[00:37] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[00:37] <Zuph> Hey NigeyS
[00:37] <NigeyS> how goes things this evening?
[00:40] <Zuph> Oh, flattening the last few bugs :)
[00:41] <NigeyS> thos pesky bug eh
[00:41] <Zuph> We're going to huck the payload into the trunk of someone's car and drive it around tonight. Here's hoping track.whitestarballoon.com is up to it :)
[00:42] <NigeyS> oo tha'll be cool, fingers crossed :D
[00:44] <Zuph> Yep!
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[07:51] <NigelMoby> Morning campers
[07:52] <NigelMoby> My balloon and parachute have arrived!!
[07:56] <x-f> good morning with good news, Nigey
[07:57] <x-f> what balloon and parachute size did you choose?
[08:02] <fsphil> Imminent launch? :)
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[08:25] <fsphil> gotta love ebay ... Item location: Portsmouth, United Kingdom
[08:25] <fsphil> via China
[08:25] <Darkside> hmmm
[08:26] <Darkside> anyone here good with RF?
[08:26] <Darkside> i'm trying to confirm some theory
[08:26] <GW8RAK> Morning Darkside. What's the problem? Can't guarantee to help though.
[08:27] <Darkside> ok, you know how an amplifier has a transfer function like vout = k0 + k1*vin + k2*vin^2 + k3*vin^3 ?
[08:27] <Darkside> where vin = Acos(2wt)
[08:28] <Darkside> sorry, vin = Acos(wt)
[08:28] <GW8RAK> I recognise the equation, but it's beyond me I'm afraid. Practical things I'm okay with, but electronic theory is another matter.
[08:28] <GW8RAK> Sorry
[08:28] <Darkside> i was going to put an f in there
[08:28] <Darkside> ok
[08:28] <Darkside> nevermind then
[08:28] <GW8RAK> At one stage I would have lapped it up, but now, I just steer away from thinking.
[08:29] <Darkside> hehe
[08:29] <Darkside> i'm just working out how to measure those coefficients (k1, k2, k3)
[08:29] <GW8RAK> Theory at that level doesn't do it for me.
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[09:54] <GW8RAK> Right, now it's my turn to ask a question about volumes and shapes. Can anyone help please?
[09:55] <GW8RAK> If I have a cylinder and a rectangular cube with the same circumferences and height, do they have equal volumes?
[09:56] <GW8RAK> Rectangular cube = square in section but longer in height.
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> no, trhey don't.
[09:56] <GW8RAK> This is really frustrating as I'm getting different answers.
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> The curcle has more.
[09:57] <GW8RAK> SpeedEvil, that was my belief, but I can't work out why.
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> Taking radius as 1. A = pi, for the circle. If the radius is 1, then the diameter is 2 pi.
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> The length of a side of a cube is 1/2 pi
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> 1/2 pi squared is
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> It's too early for this.
[09:59] <GW8RAK> Yes, I've been through all the maths. Takes me back about 37 years.
[09:59] <GW8RAK> The side of the cube is going to be circumference/4
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> 1/4 pi
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> that's actually completely wrong, though I'm not sure why.
[10:02] <GW8RAK> IIRC a circle has the greatest area for a given circumference.
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> doh
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> it does
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Anyway - doing it numerically.
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Circle = 3.14
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> square = 2.46 (pi/2)^2
[10:02] <GW8RAK> But, working in flexible materials, it seems counter intuitive to change the shape and get a different area.
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> Also - if the square had more volume, it would be minimum energy, and raindrops would be square
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> naah
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> Imagine going all the way, and flattening it to a line
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> Or making it into a star-shape
[10:03] <GW8RAK> These are all the steps I've been going through.
[10:04] <GW8RAK> I think we'll quote the size according to a round section rather than a square one.
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> At some point you've got to learn to slap your intuition with a wet trout.
[10:04] <GW8RAK> Makes life easier and increases profits :)
[10:05] <GW8RAK> Or, I'll measure volume by filling with water! Guaranteed method
[10:09] <fsphil> the best way
[10:10] <eroomde> as on reddit a couple of days ago, 1337% of pi is 42
[10:10] <eroomde> knowing that, i feel like i understand how euler felt with e^(i*pi)
[10:10] <fsphil> haha
[10:11] <fsphil> Douglas Adams makes leet jokes?
[10:11] <fsphil> he was really ahead of his time
[10:12] <eroomde> quite
[10:13] <fsphil> They where good books, might dig them out again
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[10:14] <rjharrison> Hey upu
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[11:35] Action: fsphil is playing with an HTC Desire Z -- lovely phone!
[11:35] <Darkside> ohh yes
[11:36] <Darkside> saw one of those at linuxconf, fell in love
[11:36] <fsphil> the screen is sooo clear
[11:40] <Laurenceb> android?
[11:40] <Darkside> yup
[11:43] <GW8RAK> A tethered balloon at 15 000 feet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_System
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[11:49] <Laurenceb> 1337% of pi is 42 interesting
[11:50] <Laurenceb> or very sad depending on your point of view
[11:51] <fsphil> 4.5km tether? nifty
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about that earlier
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> 5km of the best - lightest - fishing line from ebay is not _that_ expensive
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> enough to take a balloon, and kite
[11:52] <Darkside> wouodn't it stretch?
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> not really
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> well - yes - but to 5.1km or so
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> And it'd have to be launched in just the right conditions
[11:55] <GW8RAK> I was just looking on Google Earth for the winch site. Could "Blimp Road" be a clue?
[11:55] <Darkside> haha
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[11:59] <GW8RAK> More info at http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3507
[11:59] <fsphil> they do have some bizarre street names over there
[12:01] <fsphil> a radio transmitter could cover a good chunk of the country from 4.5km up
[12:01] <fsphil> though I suppose the reliability isn't nearly as good as a tower in the ground
[12:01] <GW8RAK> 98% uptime apparently
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[12:13] <jgrahamc> On the hourly predictor there's a flight time that would enable you to launch from Churchill and just stay there: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[12:15] <Laurenceb> not sure you want to land in central cambridge
[12:16] <jgrahamc> I agree!
[12:16] <jgrahamc> Would like to head east from Cambridge (maybe even south-east a bit) and drop in a field somewhere within striking distance of my parent's house in Colchester. That would make for an easy day out.
[12:17] <Laurenceb> it actually lands in the top of a BIG tree over a river
[12:17] <jgrahamc> That's bound to happen. I'll be bringing my 7m long pole with me.
[12:18] <Darkside> when are you launching?
[12:19] <jgrahamc> The plan is to launch sometime in March. Likely be a Sunday. Will be launching from Churchill with the help of eroomde et al. I'm not quite finished with the capsule, but will be within two weeks.
[12:19] <Darkside> ok
[12:19] <Darkside> just wondering if anyone is launching this weekend
[12:19] <jgrahamc> Not that I've heard.
[12:19] <Darkside> ok good >_>
[12:21] <Darkside> who do i speak to about access to spacenear.us again?
[12:21] <Darkside> access to edit the page i mean
[12:26] <fsphil> juxta can I think
[12:27] <Darkside> yeah, i had access a while ago too
[12:27] <Darkside> i forget who gave me the details
[12:27] <Darkside> doesnt really matter
[12:38] <eroomde> jgrahamc: look at cuspaceflight.co.uk/hourly-predictions
[12:38] <eroomde> thursday next week looks fantastic
[12:39] <eroomde> or wednesday
[12:46] <jgrahamc> I agree eroomde, but I'll be in California :-)
[12:48] <eroomde> can't win 'em all
[12:50] <jgrahamc> Picking up one of these while I'm there: http://www.saleae.com/home/
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[12:52] <junderwood> Seen this? http://www.space.com/10932-space-shuttle-discovery-student-balloon.html
[12:53] <Darkside> nice
[12:54] <eroomde> i wonder if their notam prevents the shuttle from launching
[12:54] <Darkside> pffffff
[12:57] <fsphil> should be cool if they manage to catch it in frame
[12:57] <Darkside> yup
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[13:04] <Dooberry> andd...
[13:04] <Dooberry> back.
[13:07] <fsphil> wb!
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[14:09] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
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[14:16] <NigeyS> afternoon
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[14:21] <eroomde> jonsowman: hi
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[14:22] <NigeyS> hey eroomde
[14:22] <eroomde> hi
[14:22] <NigeyS> how's you this afternoon ?
[14:23] <eroomde> ticking along
[14:23] <eroomde> you?
[14:24] <NigeyS> all good, like a kid at christmas, had the balloon and parachute turn up this morning :D
[14:25] <eroomde> ah great
[14:25] <eroomde> which parachute did ou go for?
[14:25] <NigeyS> yup, although ive no idea how i'm going to connect the chute to the payload line, the x-forms dont have the loop at the top
[14:25] <NigeyS> 30" x-form from steve
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[14:26] <eroomde> you can improv a loop of some sort
[14:27] <NigeyS> yup, i think Upu has 1 to, was going to ask him to take a few pics of how he does his
[14:27] <x-f> NigeyS, what is the weight of your payload?
[14:27] <NigeyS> it'll be just under 600grams
[14:28] <x-f> and what balloon did you choose?
[14:28] <NigeyS> 600g
[14:28] <x-f> ok, thanks
[14:29] <NigeyS> no probs :) no cameras on the first launch, so fairly small and light
[14:30] <x-f> you named it ATS-1, right?
[14:30] <NigeyS> yups
[14:30] <NigeyS> i must update the wiki at some point
[14:30] <x-f> what does it mean?
[14:30] <NigeyS> AboveTheSky .. long sotry behind the name :)
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[14:31] <x-f> hehe :)
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[14:34] <NigeyS> hey Dan-K2VOL
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[14:38] <Dan-K2VOL> hey
[14:39] <NigeyS> how did the drive round with the payload go ?
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[15:50] <Laurenceb> atv is so slowwww
[15:52] <russss> you don't want to crash that thing
[15:53] <russss> I wonder if they have insurance
[15:53] <russss> third party
[15:54] <spacefelix> Thermodynamics question.
[15:54] <Laurenceb> i see no tax disk
[15:54] <Laurenceb> wonder if they did an MOT
[15:55] <spacefelix> If R-Value of insulation is calculated by R = Heat Flow/Difference in temperature, is this only for steady-state situations?
[15:55] <spacefelix> Or can the calulation be applied to time-varying cases?
[15:58] <russss> wow I think I can actually see the thing moving now.
[15:59] <russss> for something going at 7.5km/sec it's awfully slow.
[16:00] <russss> capture
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[16:08] <NigeyS> atv is 100% autonimous when docking ?
[16:08] <russss> yes
[16:09] <NigeyS> wow
[16:09] <NigeyS> i thought they took manual control at x distance
[16:09] <russss> nope
[16:09] <russss> in fact it locks them out of manual control at a certain point
[16:09] <NigeyS> really? :o
[16:10] <russss> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/02/live-atv-2-prepares-for-docking-to-international-space-station/
[16:10] <NigeyS> heh he cant pronounce johannes properly
[16:12] <fsphil> man, parts of earth look like mars
[16:13] <fsphil> mmm, HAB launch on mars
[16:13] <StrayVoltage> russss: The commentators on the ESA broadcast mentioned that the astronauts merely stops manipulating the controls. They don't get locked out.
[16:13] <NigeyS> shockingly similar in some places phil.. cept we dont have that humungous olympus monz!
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[16:20] <russss> ah fair enough
[16:21] <russss> incidentally, these are the controls: http://www.flickr.com/photos/esa_events/5433177935/in/set-72157625870136099/
[16:21] <NigeyS> oo the big red abort button
[16:24] <StrayVoltage> Sweet.
[16:26] <StrayVoltage> Heh. The russian docking system is made out of mostly relay logic.
[16:26] <StrayVoltage> They had to partially re-engineer it for the ATV, to save weight.
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[16:38] <fsphil> anyone used the "Vectronics 70Cm Pre-Amp Kit VEC-1444K"?
[16:44] <eroomde> nope
[16:45] <fsphil> seems too cheap
[16:46] <fsphil> £19
[16:49] <eroomde> they're only a few components usually
[16:49] <eroomde> but quite fun to diy as a result
[16:50] <fsphil> indeed -- will give it a go
[16:50] <NigeyS> anyone know how spray adhesive performs in the cold ?
[16:52] <rjharrison> eroomde, do you know if you can drive the cc1110's usb?
[16:53] <rjharrison> I'm going to have a go at 2 way
[16:53] <eroomde> drive it?
[16:53] <rjharrison> Make it tc RTTY USB
[16:54] <rjharrison> tx
[16:54] <eroomde> rtty usb? what is that?
[16:55] <eroomde> oh i seeee
[16:55] <eroomde> i thought you meant universal serial bus
[16:55] <eroomde> rather than upper side band
[16:55] <rjharrison> I'v got a couple of CC1110's and I'm hoping to get them talking together. Ideally using rtty on Upper Side Band
[16:56] <rjharrison> is that a bit more verbose :-
[16:56] <rjharrison> )
[16:56] <eroomde> well, non-verbosely, no
[16:56] <rjharrison> hehe ok cool
[16:56] <eroomde> well actually
[16:56] <rjharrison> I'm going to make them do something
[16:56] <eroomde> if you have cc1110s at both ends, maybe
[16:56] <eroomde> but to generate the rtty you'll have to do some hacks
[16:57] <eroomde> they're really not designed for it
[16:57] <rjharrison> Hacking is the plan
[16:57] <eroomde> you have to keep change the carrier freq and ignore all the other hardware
[16:57] <rjharrison> Yep I gather that they like packet stuff
[16:57] <eroomde> so wiggle the carrier at 50hz
[16:57] <rjharrison> yep
[16:57] <eroomde> and the granularity is low
[16:57] <eroomde> doing this again, wouldn't bother with the cc1xxx range
[16:58] <eroomde> but hey, we've done it and it works, just can definitely do it better
[16:58] <rjharrison> what would you use
[16:58] <eroomde> not sure
[16:58] <eroomde> well, something more diy. there aren;t really single chip solutiosn
[16:58] <eroomde> solutions*
[16:58] <rjharrison> yep I thought I remembered you having a play with them
[16:58] <rjharrison> C1111 iirc
[16:59] <rjharrison> I want for the 1110 as it talked about -40 to 85C
[16:59] <eroomde> well, we've flown it several times now and used uplinks for some fairly critical missions. it's had quite a lot of flight hours now with several hundred km range uplinks
[16:59] <rjharrison> hehe cool
[16:59] <eroomde> but, it's a bit of a pain in the bum
[16:59] <rjharrison> Well at least it's tried and tested
[16:59] <eroomde> i think something dtmf based would suit most habs better
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[17:00] <rjharrison> I like that idea as only a few commands needed
[17:00] <eroomde> yeah
[17:00] <rjharrison> I like the idea of offloading the coms to the c1110
[17:00] <Laurenceb> but huge power uplinks right?
[17:01] <eroomde> well, give it a go
[17:01] <eroomde> you might be able to do it better than we did
[17:01] <Laurenceb> might be worth me flying my spare cc1020 eval board
[17:01] <eroomde> Laurenceb: yep
[17:01] <Laurenceb> with a bit grabber and lna on the front
[17:01] <Laurenceb> just to see what it hears
[17:01] <rjharrison> I got a couple of hundresd of pounds worth of test gear from farnels the other day they just gave it to me out of the warehouse so I had better do something with it
[17:01] <eroomde> that could help yep
[17:02] <eroomde> network analyser?
[17:02] <eroomde> that's really what you want for this
[17:02] <Laurenceb> sync to gps and have some hams blast out some signals on the hour etc
[17:02] <eroomde> well we ended up doing gps-time based half duplex comms
[17:02] <rjharrison> eroomde, iirc you rx morse
[17:03] <eroomde> not morse, no
[17:03] <Laurenceb> spi flash is pretty fast isnt it?
[17:03] <eroomde> but ook, if that's what you mean
[17:03] <eroomde> OOK*
[17:03] Action: Laurenceb is thinking of quick and dirty cc1020 bitgrabber ideas
[17:04] <Laurenceb> cc1020->avr->second spi on the usart->spi flash should be quick and easy
[17:04] <rjharrison> On of keying
[17:04] <eroomde> yup
[17:04] <eroomde> sorry, should disambiguate
[17:04] <eroomde> i would just do something like a 2m soft-rock with dtmf modem
[17:04] <Laurenceb> should get 20 minutes or so logged data
[17:04] <eroomde> would be quick and dirty and easy and probs work quite well
[17:05] <Laurenceb> sigh why hadnt i thought about this before
[17:05] <Laurenceb> would be a really worthwhile payload to fly
[17:05] <rjharrison> Well i'll give the C1110's a go given that I have just got a load of their kit for free
[17:05] <eroomde> Laurenceb: we'll fly it for you if you build it
[17:05] <Laurenceb> thanks
[17:05] <Laurenceb> really busy with work atm
[17:06] <eroomde> me too
[17:06] <eroomde> just finished soldering autopilot
[17:06] <Laurenceb> rjharrison: problem with cc1110 is it cant be hacked as a sdr
[17:06] <Laurenceb> sounds fun
[17:06] <Laurenceb> but its more 'intelligent'
[17:06] <eroomde> it's intelligent in a way that's completely unsuitable for what we need :)
[17:07] <Laurenceb> heh
[17:07] <rjharrison> software defined radio
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> The 1110 can't read the same registers internally, or it's not fast enough?
[17:07] <Laurenceb> si4432 looks really sweet
[17:07] <eroomde> it's all aes encripted wide bandwidth stuff
[17:07] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: theres no ADC test registers on cc1110
[17:07] <eroomde> so the solution on badger 2 and cub is to poll the RSSI register very fast
[17:08] <eroomde> and write a soft discriminator to extract bits
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> h
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:08] <Laurenceb> probably not a horrendous way to do it
[17:08] <Laurenceb> also cc1110 lna is 12dB NF as opposed to 7 for the cc1020
[17:08] <eroomde> well, polling RSSI very fast is quite horrendous from a sustem point of view but given we had to find a way to make it work...
[17:08] <Laurenceb> but to look at it another way they both suck lna wise
[17:09] Action: Laurenceb has free lna samples for RFMD
[17:09] <Laurenceb> works much better now
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: You've got that LNA working then?
[17:09] <Laurenceb> yes, got it running before chirstmas
[17:10] <Laurenceb> it was the rssi that really screwed me
[17:10] <Laurenceb> not enough clk cycles to grab it
[17:10] <Laurenceb> lna dead bugged on FR4 with rg-178 connections
[17:10] <Laurenceb> then cover in antistatic foam and wrap in copper foil
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[17:11] <Laurenceb> works perfectly
[17:11] <jcoxon> Evening all
[17:11] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:11] <rjharrison> hi jcoxon
[17:11] <Laurenceb> theres a few more ideas i could try to get rssi, but i generally lost the will to live as far as adding that went
[17:12] <Laurenceb> needs a micro with dma to do this really
[17:12] <Laurenceb> processing 400kbps through a 7mhz avr isnt fun
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[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Or just bitbang on a faster micro.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> I have some samples of a 2*2 25 pin STM32 on the way.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> I have no idea why - there is no way I can solder this.
[17:15] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio?s[]=sdr <if you image the ATLAS results with a 6.5dB SNR improvment from the LNA and a better ant thats not half bad
[17:15] <Laurenceb> its easy with hot air
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Not so much if I don't have a PCB
[17:16] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: tin pads, hold in place with tweezers and hot air
[17:16] <Laurenceb> oh doh :P
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> Have you soldered 0.5mm BGA?
[17:17] <Laurenceb> oh BGA
[17:17] <Laurenceb> eek - ive been hand soldering a lot of LGA but no BGA
[17:37] <rjharrison> eroomde, so just re reading what you wrote you're basically sending 1&0's by keying the tx on the ground and then polling the RSSI to and analysing the results to descriminate between a 0 and a 1
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - LGA doesn't scare me (much)
[17:39] <rjharrison> how are you doing SpeedEvil
[17:39] <rjharrison> Life treating you ok
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> I have just ordered a Huuuuuuuuuuuuge tarpaulin.
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> To make a massive lean-to, to go next to my house, to put all my stuff in, while I work on insulating one half of the house properly.
[17:41] <eroomde> rjharrison: correct
[17:42] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil, you're going to be busy then
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> yep.
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> Get it done slowly.
[17:43] <rjharrison> eroomde, seems a simple solution probably takes a bit of coding. But you say you have tested this out nicely over quite a distance
[17:43] <rjharrison> do you have a feel for tx power required on the ground
[17:44] <eroomde> yes
[17:44] <eroomde> a lot
[17:44] <eroomde> like 50W
[17:44] <rjharrison> hehe
[17:44] <eroomde> to get to 150km+
[17:44] <rjharrison> ahh well
[17:44] <rjharrison> I was thinking mor in the 50 km range
[17:44] <rjharrison> 5w :-)
[17:44] <eroomde> you'll be lucky
[17:45] <rjharrison> Or I'll have to drag the 897 out
[17:45] <rjharrison> Is that using a yagi too
[17:46] <eroomde> yep
[17:46] <eroomde> for the long range stuff
[17:46] <rjharrison> or a parabolic dish
[17:46] <rjharrison> bet you ground tracker came in usefull for that
[17:46] <rjharrison> your
[17:48] <rjharrison> I assume the power reqs are due to the poor sensitivity
[17:52] <rjharrison> off to parents evening
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[18:06] <eroomde> gtround tracker was helpful yep
[18:06] <eroomde> oh whoops
[18:13] <Zuph> Our (currently) buggy tracking page is replaying a flight of SNOX IV, if anyone wants a look: track.whitestarballoon.com
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[18:25] <NigeyS> nice Zuph :D how did last night go ?
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[18:36] <Zuph> NigeyS: We drove around town for about 45 minutes, everything worked great. Found an error in our comm controller, worked out some website bugs.
[18:37] <NigeyS> great news, launch tomorrow then eh? :P
[18:41] <Zuph> heh
[18:41] <Zuph> Not quite :)
[18:41] <Zuph> Getting there, though!
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[19:02] <DaveyC> Hi all. I'm looking for a link to purchase a balloon here in the UK. When I was here a few months back, I remember being given a link but I can't for the life of me remember it. Any help please? :)
[19:05] <Upu> randomengineering.co.uk
[19:06] <Upu> evening
[19:06] <Upu> and afk
[19:08] <DaveyC> ahh i think that was it
[19:08] <DaveyC> thank you :)
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[19:27] <russss> apparently these guys are going to attempt to video Discovery's launch from a balloon: http://www.challenger.org/live/
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[19:31] <NigeyS> dont they have an extremely LARGE restricted air space when a shuttle launches ?
[19:34] <russss> yeah that site says they have clearance from the USAF 45th Space Wing
[19:35] <LazyLeopard> ...but you can see a launh from a long way away. http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/displayimage-18-0.html
[19:35] <NigeyS> oo what a pretty pic :D
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[19:36] <NigeyS> wb Zuph
[19:36] <Zuph> thanks
[19:37] <NigeyS> Zuph, would you happen to know if a solvent free spray adhesive will survive at high altitude ?
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[19:39] <Zuph> Spray Adhesive? No. Liquid Nails works great, though.
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[19:40] <NigeyS> dam, trying to find something to glue the foil blanket to the inside of the payload box
[19:42] <fsphil> duct tape
[19:42] <NigeyS> i knew someone was going to say duct tape! lol
[19:42] <fsphil> it's the natural choice ;-)
[19:43] <NigeyS> matches the colour of the blanket to!
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[19:53] <dehuman> they have foil duct tape
[19:53] <dehuman> for ducts
[19:53] <dehuman> 200mph racin' tape
[19:55] <dehuman> http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/NASA/index.html
[19:55] <dehuman> works for nasa
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[20:12] <russss> 1200kbps NASA TV stream: mplayer -playlist 'http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163'
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[20:20] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[20:21] <Upu> evening
[20:21] <Upu> who was asking me about antennas' the other day ?
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> how many more shuttle launches after todays then?
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[20:37] <stilldavid> 1, maybe two, right?
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[20:40] <MrCraig> evening all
[20:41] <NigeyS> err
[20:41] <LazyLeopard> Two. 134 and 135.
[20:41] <NigeyS> i think atlantis launch was approved so should be 2 more launches
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[20:50] <spacefelix> Space Shuttle Launching in an hour!!! http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[20:53] <gb73d> yes im monitorin 259.7 am downlink
[20:55] <spacefelix> :DDDD
[20:58] <fsphil> can something be heard in the UK on that freq?
[21:01] <russss> NigeyS: NASA said they'd launch it regardless of whether Congress approves it or not :P
[21:01] <spacefelix> Yes.
[21:01] <spacefelix> We will land it right on top of D.C. :P
[21:02] <russss> hopefully that chip in the tile don't cause a problem
[21:02] <russss> ah they repaired it
[21:02] <russss> speedy.
[21:10] <NigeyS> russss, they can't actually do that
[21:11] <russss> it was just a funding thing.
[21:11] <russss> "As of February 14, 2011, NASA managers announced that STS-135 will fly 'regardless' of the funding situation in Congress."
[21:11] <NigeyS> hmm, im all for it, but isnt that kinda a big nono .. to ignore congress ?
[21:12] <russss> I dunno, if I was NASA I'd be pretty pissed off with them by this point :P
[21:13] <russss> they are *still* unable to stop building the Ares rocket
[21:13] <spacefelix> Naw.
[21:13] <spacefelix> It's called a 'Continuing Resolution'.
[21:13] <spacefelix> We're not going against Congressional orders.
[21:13] <russss> this person knows more ^
[21:14] <spacefelix> We're just having them sign a budget that maintains funding levels as they are and keep the program running.
[21:14] <NigeyS> oh i see, but yeah kinda stupid they cant stop pumping money into a dead project!
[21:14] <spacefelix> So we didn't say that we're flying STS-135 against congressional orders.
[21:14] <spacefelix> We just are seeking to have Congress approve money to fly it.
[21:15] <NigeyS> makes sense now, glad to see its flying anyway :D
[21:15] <spacefelix> But for now, we will continue work until they tell us otherwise.
[21:15] <spacefelix> The same goes for Constellation Program.
[21:15] <spacefelix> It's not dead yet.
[21:15] <spacefelix> It was proposed a while back to cancel it.
[21:15] <spacefelix> But as long as the CRs are signed, it's still alive.
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[21:16] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[21:16] <spacefelix> Until the new budget is written and says 'We are no longer funding Ares 1, start building Heavy Lift', Ares 1 is still alive.
[21:16] <russss> spacefelix: what do you do at NASA?
[21:16] <spacefelix> My co-workers are still working the program.
[21:16] <russss> government is slow.
[21:16] <spacefelix> I'm Space Shuttle Program.
[21:16] <spacefelix> I'm based at Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville Alabama.
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[21:17] <spacefelix> I do Safety & Mission Assurance for the program.
[21:17] <russss> cool
[21:17] <NigeyS> that's pretty neat :D
[21:17] <spacefelix> Since we are a propulsion center, we specialize in safety for the Shuttle engines; Solid Rocket Boosters, Main Engine and External Tank.
[21:17] <spacefelix> Mm.
[21:18] <russss> I assume from the fact that you're in #hackerspaces that you're involved with Makers Local 256?
[21:18] <spacefelix> Ja.
[21:18] <russss> cool
[21:18] <spacefelix> I'm a member.
[21:18] Action: russss co-founded London Hackspace
[21:18] <NigeyS> evening mattltm
[21:19] <mattltm> Hey Nigey - I've got a little sumthing sumthing for you :)
[21:19] <NigeyS> oh?
[21:19] <spacefelix> russss: Cool. What do you do out there?
[21:19] <mattltm> It's ready :)
[21:21] <russss> spacefelix: Day job? I work in web operations for a betting website
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[21:21] <NigeyS> mattltm, wahey nice work :D !
[21:21] <russss> my unnatural interest in space is purely a hobby :P
[21:21] <spacefelix> russss: Mm. Whatcha do at London Hackerspace?
[21:21] <spacefelix> russss: :D
[21:22] <russss> ah, most of the time I spent trying to make sure we can pay the rent
[21:22] <mattltm> Details are at work at the moment. PM me your email address and I'll get them over to you in the morning.
[21:22] <russss> I was under the mistaken impression that starting a hackerspace would involve hacking at some point ;)
[21:23] <NigeyS> wonder if cardiff has a hackerspace
[21:24] <russss> not that I know of. (And I like to think we know of all of them in the UK.) You should start one ;)
[21:24] <NigeyS> haha not me, what i know about electronics at the mo you could fit onto a postage stamp!
[21:24] <fsphil> they tried to start one in Belfast, but I don't think it got very far
[21:24] <fsphil> not enough hackers in Cookstown for one here :)
[21:24] <russss> it's not just an electronics thing
[21:24] <russss> we do all sorts of stuff
[21:25] <NigeyS> true
[21:25] Action: mattltm goes to sign NigeyS up to some "special" lists now he has his email address :P
[21:25] <NigeyS> haha oi :p
[21:25] <fsphil> haha
[21:26] <mattltm> Got a Venus module delivered today. Its very cute :)
[21:26] <fsphil> Man that's a nice spaceship
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> Last shuttle launch. In a way I'm glad.
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> rtsp://a661.l1856741582.c18567.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/661/18567/v0001/reflector:41582
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[21:28] <russss> third-to-last
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Last for this shuttle, rather,.
[21:28] <NigeyS> what was that issue she just mentioned? :|
[21:28] <russss> was that a range violation I heard?
[21:28] <russss> yeah
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: they need to turn the computer off and on again.
[21:28] <russss> :/
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Or something.
[21:28] <fsphil> lol
[21:28] <fsphil> bloody bill gates
[21:28] <NigeyS> use linux dammit!
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> The computers are nohere near capable enough to run linux.
[21:29] <Upu> remains go
[21:29] <NigeyS> wonder what they use
[21:29] <MrCraig> 6502's probably
[21:29] <fsphil> yea
[21:29] <Upu> rad hardened 486s
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> The shuttle computers are well documented.
[21:30] <russss> I understand most of the launch control computers run Windows.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Actually - yes - they got upgraded diddn't they
[21:30] <russss> and this is a range safety system, not part of the Shuttle.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Windows isn't bad, I use it all the time.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> (X)
[21:31] <fsphil> All those bugs keep me in my job ;-)
[21:31] <NigeyS> mission control consoles are xp arent they ?
[21:31] <MrCraig> I too would defend NT based windows against falling to their predecessors criticisms, and promote for their rapid enhancement over the last decate.
[21:32] <MrCraig> Though I'm a *nix fan
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> Vista never actually crashed on me ever.
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> In the whole 3 hours I used it.
[21:32] <mattltm> Is there a better stream? That one is lagging very bad to me.
[21:32] <NigeyS> vista was fine with me but hated the xfi sound card, win 7 has been flawless though
[21:32] <russss> mattltm: which one are you using?
[21:32] <mattltm> rtsp://a661.l1856741582.c18567.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/661/18567/v0001/reflector:41582
[21:32] <russss> ah
[21:33] Action: SpeedEvil is also watching that.
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[21:33] <fsphil> I'm watching whatever is on the nasa main page
[21:33] <russss> hold on
[21:33] <NigeyS> try this 1 matt
[21:33] <mattltm> Is it ok to you SpeedEvil?
[21:33] <NigeyS> http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163
[21:33] <fsphil> mms://a2swmod025.bcst.cdn.a2s.yimg.com/nqsenc003_d?StreamID=119446799&pl_auth=6fc997faf527ab7549475426a8558137&ht=120&pl_b=00D90C0888D9A9127320BCCBB14D66CCCF&CG_ID=1369080&Segment=149773
[21:33] <russss> http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1369080&segment=149773
[21:33] <MrCraig> most of vista's criticisms came from the fact that they upgraded the driver model from XP - and with new driver models comes a learning curve for driver developers that leads to bugs and crashes - but it was worth doing
[21:33] <russss> that's the 150kbps WMV stream ^
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Workin OK
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[21:33] <SpeedEvil> I don't know how lagged it is
[21:33] <russss> you can watch it on Linux using mplayer -playlist
[21:33] <spacefelix> russss: LOL. True that. In a hackerspace, there must be at least one or two people whose main project is running the space. Or it should be a major project shared among members.
[21:34] <russss> this one is the 1200kbps WMV stream, working fine for me: http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163
[21:34] <mattltm> russss wins! Much better :)
[21:35] <mattltm> Im using VLC at the moment
[21:36] <mattltm> the 1200kbps stream is nice.
[21:36] <fsphil> oh sweet
[21:36] <fsphil> that's better than some freeview channels
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[21:36] <russss> yeah I believe the 1200kbps stream isn't really published anywhere
[21:36] <russss> but I think the only way you can get a better stream than that is to tune into their HD satellite channel
[21:36] <NigeyS> running nicely here the 1200kbps stream
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[21:38] <fsphil> be tricky receiving that here
[21:39] <spacefelix> Awww, the Range No-Go'ed.
[21:39] <mattltm> :(
[21:40] <russss> how long can they hold at T-5? a minute or so I think...
[21:40] <spacefelix> 55 seconds in hold left.
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> I guess they need trhe range safety system in case they need to blow it.
[21:41] <spacefelix> Naw.
[21:41] <mattltm> Quick poll - Launch or no launch? What do you think?
[21:41] <W0OTM> Launch
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> No launch.
[21:42] <W0OTM> we HAVE to
[21:42] <mattltm> No launch
[21:42] <spacefelix> The system involved is the radar to track the Shuttle on ascent.
[21:42] <spacefelix> Need to follow it so they know where it is at all times.
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> The hold is going to continue till scrub
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> And how many bits it's in.
[21:42] <spacefelix> So they know if it's on or off course.
[21:42] <fsphil> Lovely day there, a toastie 24 °C
[21:42] <spacefelix> If it is off, they need to activate the Range Safety System to blow it up.
[21:42] <dehuman> woohoo
[21:43] Action: SpeedEvil looks at the thermometer.
[21:43] <NigeyS> yeah, 24c in feb .. how jealous am i !
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> It's 6C in here.
[21:43] <spacefelix> SO until that tracking system gets to working, they can't go.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Warming up - yay!
[21:43] <fsphil> lol, guy beside the clock just realised he's on TV
[21:43] <dehuman> loo
[21:43] <NigeyS> Discovery just doesnt want to go!
[21:43] Action: SpeedEvil is under the covers, with an electric blanket.
[21:43] <dehuman> hahah ya hthat guy fsphil
[21:43] <dehuman> i was just gonna say 'wtf is worng with that guy, does he need to pee?
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> I wish I could have seen one of my ideas.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Take the ET. Remove all the foam. Put on a baggie filled with neon.
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[21:46] <russss> I would not want to be the range officer at this point.
[21:47] <mattltm> Is that the popemobile behind the clock!
[21:47] <russss> this isn't going to happen, is it.
[21:47] <russss> oh wait
[21:47] <spacefelix> Shuttle launching in 5 minutes!!!!
[21:47] <spacefelix> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[21:47] <W0OTM> window closing
[21:48] <spacefelix> Range is go! :DDD
[21:48] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[21:48] <fsphil> that was cutting it close
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[21:48] <NigeyS> yey
[21:49] <mattltm> Wow!
[21:49] <mattltm> I love being wrong.
[21:49] <russss> wtf
[21:49] <russss> hold switch
[21:49] <russss> there's an ACTUAL SWITCH
[21:49] <NigeyS> lol
[21:49] <fsphil> the stream had died on me.. noooo!
[21:49] <mattltm> http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?feedId=705
[21:49] <mattltm> Radio audio from the space centre :)
[21:50] <fsphil> ah, going again
[21:50] <russss> 2 seconds of hold time remaining
[21:50] <russss> that was so close
[21:50] <fsphil> I'm gonna see if I can receive audio from the shuttle as it goes over the UK
[21:50] <mattltm> Freq fsphil?
[21:51] <fsphil> 259.7 mhz AM apparently
[21:52] <mattltm> cool
[21:52] <mattltm> I'll have a go :)
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[21:52] <russss> lovely day for it
[21:53] <iamdanw> Sunny as a florida day
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[21:55] <russss> throttle down
[21:55] <dsingleton> fuck yeah
[21:55] <russss> throttle up
[21:56] <russss> SRB SEP
[21:57] <dehuman> woohoo
[21:58] <W0OTM> oh thats not good
[21:58] <W0OTM> tile came off?
[21:58] <fsphil> looked like foam
[21:58] <mattltm> waht fell off!
[21:58] <russss> that almost looked like an RCS jet cover
[21:58] <NigeyS> some debris
[21:59] <russss> although they usually fall off much earlier
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[21:59] <W0OTM> wow, bounced off the shuttle
[21:59] <russss> I guess it's possible that one stayed stuck on and got blown off when the RCS fired
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[22:01] <spacefelix> :PPPP
[22:01] <W0OTM> main tank seperation
[22:01] <spacefelix> Naw, they're not using RCS at this point.
[22:02] <spacefelix> It's all SSME gimbal.
[22:02] <spacefelix> Unless a tyvek cover got sticky.
[22:02] <russss> yeah apparently it was probably foam
[22:02] <russss> but "(Remember, not much of a big deal on liberations after T+3 minutes)."
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> spacefelix: They use OMS though.
[22:02] <spacefelix> Ja.
[22:02] <spacefelix> That's separate from RCS.
[22:02] <spacefelix> Tail end.
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> They fill the OMS tank, and then burn what they won't need in orbit on the way up for a few thousand pounds extra lift
[22:03] <spacefelix> Debis came from nose end.
[22:03] <russss> MECO I think
[22:03] <spacefelix> Ja.
[22:03] <spacefelix> ET sep is MECO.
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[22:03] <SpeedEvil> MECO is before ET sep
[22:03] <fsphil> that's impressive
[22:03] <spacefelix> Ja.
[22:03] <spacefelix> So ET sep is after MECO.
[22:05] <spacefelix> OMS burn is to circularize their orbit.
[22:05] <spacefelix> That
[22:05] <spacefelix> ;s hydrazine and NTO.
[22:06] <spacefelix> They start the OMS burn uphill and keep it on after ET sep to get into orbit.
[22:06] <mattltm> http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/tracking/index.html
[22:06] <fsphil> mmm,, first orbit isn't bring it anywhere near me
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[22:07] <russss> I see the first orbit taking it over southern UK in about 10mins
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> It's not lit though
[22:08] <russss> ah
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> There are lots of UK passes, but it has to be near dawn or dusk to see it
[22:09] <MrCraig> I think the guy on the left in the control room just told the guy on the right a really bad joke
[22:09] <russss> yeah it is visible over the UK on Saturday evening at docking - 30mins
[22:09] <russss> whether it'll be distinguishable from the ISS, and whether it'll be cloudy remains to be seen
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[22:10] <SpeedEvil> heavens-above.com is erroring.
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> Wonder why
[22:12] <russss> heh
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[22:13] <russss> docking is 19:10 UTC on Saturday
[22:13] <fsphil> I can hear them!
[22:13] <fsphil> Just about
[22:13] <russss> really?
[22:13] <fsphil> yea!
[22:13] <fsphil> recording it
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:14] <MrCraig> :-)
[22:14] <russss> frequency?
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Stick it on the tracker. :)
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[22:18] <fsphil> lol
[22:18] <mattltm> Still RX fsphil?
[22:18] <russss> yeah the FT-817 won't do 259MHz as standard.
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> It's only over the horizon for ~5 min atr a time
[22:18] <russss> so I can't listen anyhow
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[22:19] <fsphil> nah, just a few brief messages, nothing now
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[22:21] <fsphil> it's mostly noise, but a few words can be made out: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/shuttle-discovery.ogg
[22:23] <russss> hah, that launch has doubled the number of humans in space.
[22:23] <russss> :/
[22:28] <spacefelix> Seeya guys.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Wave.
[22:28] <MrCraig> Particle
[22:29] <MrCraig> hmm, I'm sure there's a "you only wave as someone parts-icle" joke in there somewhere.
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[22:36] <Upu> http://www.b3tards.com/u/7b2994262c3f7a71941d/kitteh_truth.gif
[22:36] <Upu> sorry not related to topic but made me laugh
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> genius
[22:40] <mattltm> What am I looking at? A parked car and some gates?
[22:41] <mattltm> Ah....
[22:41] <mattltm> A very slow loadinggif!
[22:42] <LazyLeopard> Animated, I expect.
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[23:10] <Upu> it is yes
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[00:00] --- Fri Feb 25 2011