highaltitude.log.20110223

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[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan
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[00:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0033UWLWY/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-6&pf_rd_r=1GFRAXJM9S7238HSDYF2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128453&pf_rd_i=468294
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> Interestging
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[00:21] <russss> nice
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[00:43] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
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[00:49] <Zuph> Hey NigeyS
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[00:49] <NigeyS> busy night ahead dude ?
[00:57] <Zuph> NigeyS: You got it :)
[00:59] <NigeyS> ya almost there dude :D .. can't believe the hours you guys have put into the project, complete respect for you all :-)
[01:01] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS before I go to bed I got a question
[01:02] <NigeyS> shoot
[01:03] <Lunar_Lander> when i have sensors
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[01:03] <Lunar_Lander> like this one http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9694
[01:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are they connected to the Uno?
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Duct tape.
[01:04] <NigeyS> lol SpeedEvil
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> You connect it to an I2C bus, if that is suppported.
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> Or if it's not, you but-bang I2C
[01:04] <NigeyS> what he said
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> what do I need to by for I2C?
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> *buy
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> Nothing
[01:04] <Lunar_Lander> that's good
[01:04] <NigeyS> http://wiring.org.co/learning/libraries/bmp085.html
[01:05] <NigeyS> the easy way is to solder a header to the breakout, and connect the cables to that then straight into the uno
[01:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> the Uno has a pin "+3.3 V"
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[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> sorry without the +
[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> and GND next to it
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> is that to feed the sensor?
[01:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah and the data lines go into the analogue ports
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[01:10] <NigeyS> yups, 3.3v and gnd for power, and the other 2 wires are your data lines
[01:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:10] <Lunar_Lander> so the uno can only supply one sensor?
[01:12] <NigeyS> yups, if you hook them up directly to it
[01:13] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[01:13] <Lunar_Lander> is there a workaround for that?
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[01:14] <GroupO> nite folks
[01:14] <NigeyS> nite GroupO
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[01:14] <NigeyS> you can make a power circuit on a stripboard like i have, and run your sensors off the stripboard
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[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> I suggest to continue on this tomorrow :)
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I will then also have a reply from radiometrix
[01:16] <NigeyS> :-)
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> someone wrote that they got an NTX2 as a sponsor item
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> so I simply asked for that
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[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> well
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[01:17] <NigeyS> night dude, catch you tomorrow
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[08:51] <Darkside> fucking netsplits
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[09:32] <Dooberry> morning
[09:32] <NigeyS> morning
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[10:00] <fsphil> you'd think they'd have a solution for netsplits by now. they're not exactly a recent phenomenon
[10:04] <NigeyS> wasnt the routing done yesterday an effort to "stabilise" the network? :|
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[10:09] Nick change: rharrison -> rjharrison
[10:10] <NigeyS> hey rjharrison
[10:10] <rjharrison> hi
[10:14] <NigeyS> "Scientists at the University of Cambridge believe they have achieved the first accurate estimate of how much faster Earth's core is rotating compared to the rest of the planet. The rate — about one degree every million years — is much slower than previously thought
[10:14] <NigeyS> isnt that kinda slooooooooow? :|
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> delta
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> So one rev slippage every 360 million years
[10:15] <NigeyS> ohh
[10:18] <NigeyS> my cat is dumb, the computer room has a spare double bed, and where does he sleep.. right under my dam desk :@
[10:19] <fsphil> my dog sleeps beside my computer quite a bit
[10:20] <NigeyS> must be the heat from the pc .. got the amp under the desk to, makes a nice foot warmer in winter..lol
[10:28] <fsphil> I've found my sisters cat there a few times too, despite it living about six houses away
[10:29] <NigeyS> :o crazy animals!
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[11:16] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/PNDhC.png
[11:16] <Darkside> i am a master of sexy graphs
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[11:19] <fsphil> porno-graph
[11:19] <NigeyS> utter filth! :p
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> porno graphy
[12:30] <jgrahamc> Did you mean to type that into a different window? :-)
[12:30] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/PNDhC.png
[12:51] <eroomde> the tone on here has plummeted in the last couple of days
[12:51] <Darkside> >_>
[12:53] <jgrahamc> The other day someone on here was showing some Darkside code from 2009 and trying to get it to compile.
[12:54] <jgrahamc> I think it was GroupO. He got it from a friend of a friend.
[12:59] <GroupO> Yeh, it was certainly me
[13:00] <jgrahamc> GroupO: looks like Darkside is on so you could probably ask him directly about it
[13:00] <GroupO> ok, i will need to load it up, plus its lunchtime! :)
[13:00] <GroupO> will brb
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq9IKsH9BXg
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[13:21] <Darkside> whatwhat
[13:21] <Darkside> GroupO: what?
[13:21] <Darkside> what code?
[13:22] <GroupO> Darkside: hey, it was an issue with trying to get some code to compile
[13:22] <Darkside> what code
[13:22] <Darkside> and how is it related to me >_>
[13:22] <GroupO> I cant remember what bit it was, but anyway, I have got some help from a guy in uni
[13:22] <GroupO> I think it was for a project you were working on...I think. Its what I have been told
[13:22] <Darkside> whatwhat
[13:23] <GroupO> i dont know...
[13:23] <Darkside> was it part of the old project horus code?
[13:23] <GroupO> yes, i thjink so
[13:23] <Darkside> well i didn't write that
[13:23] <Darkside> but i have made it work
[13:23] <Darkside> and used it in various things
[13:23] <GroupO> ahh right ok
[13:23] <Darkside> ok, first up
[13:23] <GroupO> well, i think it is being pulled together
[13:23] <Darkside> what GPS module are you using, and what TX system are you using
[13:24] <GroupO> Falcom FSA-03 and Radiometrix NTX2
[13:24] <Darkside> ok good
[13:25] <GroupO> I was going to say, I appreciate help in understanding this stuff, but I know HIbby and he is doing the heavy lifting with this one
[13:25] <GroupO> :)
[13:25] <Darkside> ok
[13:25] <Darkside> well i have working code
[13:25] <Darkside> but if you're getting it going, then thats better
[13:26] <Darkside> its best you use your own code (maybe with help from some libraries) than using someone elses code
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[13:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.lofar.org/cest-magnifique-lofar-goes-multi-national <- pretty impressive
[13:38] <Darkside> whoo, prac demonstrating fir the first time tomorrow
[13:53] <Hibby> bah. Still having FSA-03 issues. Went and stood outside for ~5 mins and didn't get a fix :/
[13:53] <Hibby> did get the time though
[13:54] <Randomskk> antenna could have come loose
[13:55] <Hibby> Equally possible that the fact the serial cable is cable-tied to the plastic housing for the antenna has something to do with it.
[13:56] <Hibby> Don't have to set any other modes asides from navigation, also, do you?
[13:56] <fsphil> just aviation mode
[13:57] <fsphil> still, it sounds like you have a faulty antenna
[13:57] <fsphil> you should easily get a lock outside
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[13:58] <Hibby> one connection does look slightly dry, but why would I be getting the time in that case?
[13:58] <fsphil> the time can be received even if the signal is weak
[13:59] <fsphil> when I have it setup on my desk, about 2m from the window, it gets the time long before a lock
[13:59] <fsphil> the antenna might be partially connected
[14:01] <Hibby> will gather opinions from the other radio nerds at the club tonight. It's a possibility, i guess!
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[14:01] <fsphil> yea -- there's been a few FSA03's with faulty antenna connections here
[14:02] <fsphil> I seem to have been lucky so far
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/OhMyGodParticle/
[14:03] <Laurenceb> wonder if that could kill you
[14:04] <Laurenceb> presumably it could - so you could die from a single proton
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[15:00] <GW8RAK> Afternoon all. I mentioned some time ago about insurance from the British Model Flying Association.
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[15:01] <GW8RAK> I've finally got through to the right person and in principle he does not see a problem with our activities being covered by their insurance.
[15:02] <fsphil> good news
[15:02] <eroomde> very!
[15:02] <GW8RAK> I've got to send him some detailed information about how HAB'ing happens and what legal and safety framework we fly under.
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
[15:02] <GW8RAK> Has anyone done a risk assessment on HAB'ing?
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> GW8RAK i'm quite jealous
[15:02] <eroomde> GW8RAK: don't hesitate to get in contact (probably via email) if you want more data to help make the case
[15:03] <GW8RAK> Can anyone see a risk beyond the payload coming down in the wrong location?
[15:03] <eroomde> we have i think as good a cannon of historical flight data as anyone on here
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> no one would do it that we talked to
[15:03] <eroomde> GW8RAK: air strike
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[15:03] <GW8RAK> eroomde ?
[15:03] <eroomde> GW8RAK: we have done a risk assessment yep
[15:03] <GW8RAK> Could I have a copy please?
[15:03] <eroomde> air strike being the payload being injested into a turbofan
[15:04] <GW8RAK> I see.
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> GW8RAK - injury to persons on the launch team and landing location, forest fires, automobile accidents, aircraft impacts
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> building fires
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[15:04] <eroomde> i think to get anything beyond 3rd party might be asking too much?
[15:05] <GW8RAK> All noted. Will get it written up this evening and if people would like to comment, I'll put a copy on the Wiki for comment.
[15:05] <eroomde> (i.e. the launch team)
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> you couldn't afford insurance to cover any aircraft incident
[15:06] <GW8RAK> Indeed. I think the Civil Aviation Authority exemption probably covers that aspect.
[15:06] <fsphil> doesn't publishing the NOTAM mean pilots should be aware of it being in the area?
[15:06] <eroomde> yes
[15:06] <GW8RAK> I think that flying would be considered dangerous and exceptional and not all risks can be minimised.
[15:06] <fsphil> (in saying that, there was a small aircraft buzzing around a few minutes after hadie:2 launched)
[15:06] <eroomde> but if there was an incident, i'm not sure what would be the consequences
[15:06] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil that doesn't mean that they won't run into it
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> and many private pilots never read notams
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> for local flights
[15:07] <fsphil> yea
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> (they should, but don't)
[15:07] <GW8RAK> A friend is a commercial pilot and has never read one.
[15:07] <fsphil> I think this was a private plane
[15:07] <GW8RAK> They don't get notice of them.
[15:07] <fsphil> the balloon was at a good altitude by that point, so there was no risk
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> the commercial pilots companies read them
[15:08] <Dan-K2VOL> and will let pilots know if there's any actual thing to worry about
[15:08] <GW8RAK> The company does and probably just alerts individual flights know.
[15:08] <fsphil> I've been contacted once by a pilot wanting to know if I was launching
[15:08] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a lot of NOTAMs that aren't really important to every flight
[15:08] <GW8RAK> (that last word doesn't make sense)
[15:08] <eroomde> fsphil: i get about 2 or 3 calls a week from pilots asking about notams
[15:09] <eroomde> mainly RAF
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, why are they calling you so often?
[15:10] <GW8RAK> I'd still like to launch under RAF auspices.
[15:10] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: we have a constant notam
[15:10] <eroomde> 6 months at a time, rolling renewal
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, ah that's curious, how often do you actually launch?
[15:10] <eroomde> so it's up there every day
[15:10] <GW8RAK> If we could launch from RAF Valley, Prince William could let it go!
[15:11] <eroomde> not nearly that often, but they've proved themselves consistantly incapable of getting us a notam at <= 2 days notice, so we negotiated a blanket one
[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> ah sounds like a good plan
[15:11] <eroomde> it's been very helpful
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> the notams here are funny, they will not take them more than 48 hours in advance
[15:12] <GW8RAK> eroomde - could you email me a copy of the risk assessment please if it is to hand?
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> and want them more than 12 hours in advance
[15:12] <eroomde> when we decide on a fiday night to launch a 3am on a saturday morning, for instance, as there's a nice jetstream window
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> they go live immediately once I hang up the phone, so that's nice
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[15:12] <eroomde> GW8RAK: i am just looking for it
[15:13] <eroomde> i wrote in in 2006, which makes it an ancient document by hard drive standards
[15:13] <GW8RAK> Thank you. The man at the BMFA also said if we could write an article for their magazine.
[15:13] <eroomde> like finding a shopping receipt in an ancient tomb
[15:13] <GW8RAK> My work files are very organised. My home ones are the complete opposite.
[15:14] <eroomde> my stuff tends to undergo massive and discrete reductions in entropy every time i change laptop
[15:14] <Dan-K2VOL> thank god for indexed PDFs is all I can say
[15:14] <GW8RAK> Entropy is a real problem
[15:14] <eroomde> quite. i need a better system. dropbox or something
[15:14] <eroomde> or just a git repo for paperwork
[15:14] <fsphil> heh, I have to apply 28 days before :)
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yipes fsphil
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> is it required?
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> to file a NOTAM
[15:15] <fsphil> yep, if the size of the total package is greater than 2m in any direction
[15:16] <eroomde> 28 days is a lot!
[15:16] <eroomde> you can't possibly know what the weather will be
[15:16] <fsphil> yep, which makes launching from a small island quite fun ;)
[15:17] <fsphil> I'm going to ask if I can make other arrangements
[15:17] <eroomde> yeah
[15:17] <eroomde> the advantage of our blanket notam is that we get loads of externals coming to launch, which is quite good for putting faces to names
[15:17] <eroomde> and an excuse to test out different launch techniques, as most of them want us to help with the actual launch process
[15:18] <eroomde> but i can see that geography inhibits fsphil in this case :)
[15:18] <fsphil> yep :)
[15:18] <fsphil> afaik I'm the only one launching here
[15:18] <GW8RAK> A long to travel from North Wales as well.
[15:19] <eroomde> true yep
[15:19] <fsphil> it's a good launch site if you live in Yorkshire :)
[15:19] <eroomde> and actually not very ideal a location given the usual jet stream conditions
[15:20] <GW8RAK> Better get some work done.
[15:21] <eroomde> GW8RAK: will keep looking. not immediately clear that I still have it though
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[15:22] <fsphil> If I miss the next launch window, I would consider launching elsewhere
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[15:24] <eroomde> GW8RAK: found it
[15:24] <eroomde> email addy?
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[15:42] <GW8RAK> eroomde email to gogle@2480sqn dot org dot uk. Thanks
[15:44] <eroomde> sent, GW8RAK
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[15:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hey all, want to peek at our almost ready tracking site?
[15:50] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde fsphil http://track.whitestarballoon.com
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[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL> the gauges and charts are google gadgets
[15:52] <fsphil> It's alive!
[15:53] <fsphil> There's a couple still missing, that expected?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yeah, it's not done
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[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> but it's actually presenting data sent from the payload
[15:53] <fsphil> oh so that's live?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> which is replaying SNOX IV :-)
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> well, it was, but I had to stop it for a bug I found
[15:54] <fsphil> looking well
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll be doing repeated live simulation runs over the next few days as we polish the page and telemetry links
[15:54] <fsphil> the map isn't making much sense, just a bunch of red lines
[15:54] <eroomde> looks really good!
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks guys
[15:54] <eroomde> the google widgets are awesome
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://atlc.sourceforge.net/
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Arbitrarily shaped transmission line analyser
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, there are some obvious lat-lon glitches there
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> the horizontal one is the actual track of the simulation
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> taking off from Knoxville TN
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde they sure are
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> we're going to color code the gauges to show GOOD and NOT SO GOOD :-)
[15:56] <eroomde> :)
[15:56] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:56] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil:thanks
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[15:56] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: what's MET?
[15:56] <jgrahamc> Looks really cool
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> heh some glitches obviously - it shouldn't be at 100km altitude
[15:57] <fsphil> like a proper mission control
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> yep, Mission Elapsed Time
[15:57] <eroomde> cool
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> hit Show More Details at the bottom
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> for charted data
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[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> hello zuph and doughecka
[15:58] <eroomde> i guess the other cool thing is that google should be able to take the hammering from traffic unlike your poor old (p4?) box you used a few years back for snox
[15:58] <Laurenceb> external temp is int eh wrong place for me
[15:58] <imrcly> i was going to ask why helium temp is not showing but gary has that part doesn't he?
[15:58] <Laurenceb> - firefox
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[15:59] <Zuph> morning Dan-K2VOL
[16:00] <eroomde> morning, gosh
[16:00] <eroomde> i'm tired already
[16:00] <eroomde> glad i'm in gmt
[16:00] <fsphil> for now
[16:00] <Zuph> eroomde: I am also tired.
[16:00] <Zuph> For what it's worth.
[16:00] <eroomde> late night?
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, exactly, our sites are now all on Amazon Web Hosting, as well as the backend databases, and google takes those charts and gadgets
[16:00] <Zuph> As usual :)
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[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL> we should have no trouble scaling
[16:00] <eroomde> cool
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah snox folded pretty quickly lol
[16:01] <eroomde> it looked pretty cool though while it worked!
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly, these gauges and charts are really un-finished
[16:01] <jgrahamc> If you are worried about load then put the entire thing behind CloudFlare
[16:02] <eroomde> i think it's more that the entire very dynamic web page last time was hosted on an old box in their lab
[16:02] <Zuph> Actually, i'm not sure what the gauges will read when they get nulls, but yes, those gauges are unfinished.
[16:02] <GW8RAK> eroomde thanks for the risk assessment. I'll get it written up this evening and will post a copy on the wiki for comments.
[16:02] <Zuph> jgrahamc: We're using AWS Elastic Load Balancer.
[16:02] <jgrahamc> Zuph: that'll work!
[16:03] <eroomde> i hope it's of some use GW8RAK. you can tell we did it for something else but there might be something extractable from there
[16:03] <GW8RAK> Certainly some bits can be extracted. The biggest risk I think is of physical injury from a large helium cylinder getting to the launch site.
[16:04] <GW8RAK> Plus carriage of gases in a car.
[16:04] <eroomde> i'm not sure the bmfa will want to stretch to covering ground issues. but worth a try I guess
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[16:04] <GW8RAK> I'll need it for the Air Cadet HQ. Very keen on risk assessments.
[16:04] <eroomde> :)
[16:04] <Zuph1> Damnit linux, route smarter.
[16:05] <GW8RAK> Had a car accident years ago while carrying a radioactive source with a suitable sticker in the car. The Police wanted to cordon the area of and treat it as a chemical emergency.
[16:06] <eroomde> your averga ecopper will see a radioactive sticker and panic
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: helium cylinders can do nasty stuff.
[16:06] <eroomde> then see what the book says
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: if you manage to knock the top off
[16:06] <GW8RAK> They didn't like it when I picked up the item with the source in it and showed them where the source was! Fun days
[16:06] <eroomde> the most important thing when transporting helium cylinders is to have the top facing the front of the vehicle
[16:07] <GW8RAK> SpeedEvil, that is my biggest worry.
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: After assuming you're a terrorist, and shooting you 18 times in the back of the head, he will then apologise profusely on realising his error.
[16:07] <eroomde> that way when they blow, the car behind you gets destroyed rather than you
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[16:08] <Zuph1> Dan-K2VOL: Figured out why we got spurious transmissions last night.
[16:08] <GW8RAK> But if the cylinder goes out the back at speed x, isn't the smaller mass of the regulator going to come out the front at x times a lot?
[16:08] <fsphil> We had ours sitting sideways, so the top faced the pavement
[16:09] <GW8RAK> So you are more worried about yourself and other drivers than pedestrians? :)
[16:10] <eroomde> GW8RAK: the reg will have less energy transfered to it
[16:10] <eroomde> it'll take a while for all the helium's potential energy to be transfered to KE has it exits
[16:10] <eroomde> but ok sure, lie it behind the passenger side
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde actually our public SNOX web page and tracking page was on a commercial host, only the DTRC page was on an old box
[16:11] <GW8RAK> Just playing Devil's advocate. Someone in HQAC will be thinking the same
[16:11] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: gosh - it really must have been being hammered then!
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> we just overwhelmed the CPU of the commercial hosting box, and couldn't do anything about it, as it was just a standalone server
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> yes it was, tens of thousands of unique visitors all hitting reload
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> gw8rak eroomde, should not ever transport pressurized cylinders inside a passenger compartment, it's not the ejection speed that is the danger to you, it's the near-instantaneous pressurization of your vehicle
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> destroys your ears and lungs
[16:13] <GW8RAK> And asphyxiation.
[16:14] <eroomde> I am assuming pickup here!
[16:14] <eroomde> i would not ever store one in the boot/trunk of a normal car
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) yeah if you do it, leave all windows wide open
[16:14] <GW8RAK> And if the reg did come off, the scream of escaping gas.
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph what was it
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> nice job finding it already
[16:14] <eroomde> we use 2 or 3 L bottles at a time for our launch site so they don't even fit in anything but a pickup with a decent bed length
[16:18] <Zuph1> Dan-K2VOL: Gary's GPS dropouts. We got a watchdog reset that triggered a TX. I meant to fix it last night,but ran out of steam.
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> no problem
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm eroomde, I'm not familiar with that size nomenclature
[16:19] <eroomde> it would be nice if the world could just agree on standards
[16:19] <eroomde> well, it's about 9m^3 of He
[16:19] <eroomde> about 5ft tall
[16:20] <Zuph1> Dan-K2VOL: Hope I didn't interfere with your test.
[16:20] <eroomde> I was reading some old parachute papers the other day from Knacke (a war and post war/early apollo parachute dude) and good god, some of the units made my head spin
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> ah that's probably the T-size here, holding 8.24 m^3
[16:20] <eroomde> like the unit of porisity was something utterly horrendous like slugs per pound cubic foot of mercury inches
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> but even here not every helium supplier knows it by the letter
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[16:21] <Zuph1> eroomde: They still teach those units in engineering school here.
[16:21] <eroomde> i would open a vein
[16:21] <Zuph1> eroomde: Because we actually do have to deal with them from time to time :(
[16:21] <Zuph1> eroomde: Maybe that's one reason I went EE. Volts and Amps tend to be pretty universal.
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph1, no, I was just a little sad to see that much data go through the satellite and not get received by the ground telemetry systems
[16:21] Action: StrayVoltage hugs SI.
[16:21] <eroomde> how anyone is meant to do science with that kind of nonesense i'll never know.
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> we're trying to do this whole project in SI, if you guys haven't noticed
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> which has caused grumbles from some volunteers, but they have quickly stopped grumbling as they remember how easy that makes calculations
[16:23] <eroomde> we'll send a beer in your direction for that and many other reasons
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe thanks
[16:23] <jgrahamc> Yeah, but it'll be a pint of beer which rather negates the whole thing!
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> I've even made the executive decision to display all tracking data in SI units.
[16:23] <eroomde> the most common email about the flight predictor is a requent for 'english' (urgh!!) units
[16:23] <eroomde> request*
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> which is risky, but it will be probably my single largest contribution to forcing the general american public to do a metric conversion that I could imagine
[16:24] <eroomde> stand firm!
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> they'll at least go to google once to type in 6000km in miles
[16:24] <Zuph1> I know I could use a drink at this point :-p
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> or something similar
[16:24] <eroomde> they're imperial units. I guess it's not as bad as them being called 'freedom units'. but not far off
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[16:25] <Zuph1> eroomde: They will be freedom units the next time someone in the eurozone pisses off the American right :-p
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah Zuph1, I'll let you have the drink while I go hibernate in a soft, dark, cave with blankets and pillows and non-frozen foods
[16:25] <jgrahamc> To be pedantic the US doesn't even use imperial units because they have a different gallon etc. Spent ages on this for my book. The US system actually predates standardized imperial units.
[16:25] <eroomde> given metric is basically french units, you're probably not wrong!
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[16:26] <eroomde> jgrahamc: ok, I stand corrected
[16:26] <eroomde> alhough yes, I did know about discrepencies in galloons and others
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> however we're using Knots
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> I have no idea what system that's in
[16:26] <eroomde> which is why they always think we're lying when we tell them how many mpg's our cars can do
[16:27] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, so a gallon isnt a gallon in the U.S ? :|
[16:27] <eroomde> a knot is nice because it's 1 minute of latitude
[16:27] <jgrahamc> Yes, that's a good laugh since they have a different gallon. In France, cars all give litres per 100km which is a helpful amount to work with.
[16:27] <eroomde> as does my focus now
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> jgrahamc: Dumbing down.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Fuel consumption should be an area!
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[16:28] <eroomde> so one doesn't mind knots as it's tied to soemthing aproximately logical
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> 1l/100km = .01mm^2
[16:28] <jgrahamc> UK galloon != US galloon. UK gallon is roughly 4.5l, US gallon is 3.7l
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> jgrahamc I like that french way, sounds nice
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll have one UK Galloon please.
[16:29] <NigeyS> leave our gallons alone! lol
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[16:29] <eroomde> we had a local that would serve beer in galloons
[16:29] <eroomde> they have half gallon pitchers
[16:29] <eroomde> not a bad way to celebrate a successful balloon mission
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> lol sorry, was up late again at the balloon lab
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[16:29] <NigeyS> 'bout 8 pints ed ?
[16:29] <eroomde> nearer 9 i think
[16:29] <NigeyS> oo
[16:30] <eroomde> oh no wait
[16:30] <eroomde> confused ed
[16:30] <StrayVoltage> jgrahamc: So does the rest of europe, AFAIK?
[16:30] <jgrahamc> A pint is 1/8 of a gallon. Same thing US and UK but since the gallon is different..
[16:30] <NigeyS> dam thats alot of beer in a 36gallon keg .. !
[16:30] <jgrahamc> StrayVoltage: agreed.
[16:30] <eroomde> a pint is definied as 1/8th gallon!
[16:30] <NigeyS> 1 pint = 568ml!
[16:30] <Zuph1> Even most of canada uses l/100km
[16:31] <eroomde> yes i went the wrong way with my mental conversion factor
[16:31] <NigeyS> speaking of pints .. i can't remember the last time i saw a pint bottle of milk .. :|
[16:32] Action: SpeedEvil buys all his milk in 6*1l boxes.
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> I currently have 6 of these sitting in the kitchen.
[16:32] <NigeyS> same here, come to think of it i havent even seen a milkman in .......... years!
[16:32] <fsphil> wot, my sparkfun pint glass isn't a pint?
[16:32] <jgrahamc> In London there are still some milkmen who deliver.
[16:33] <NigeyS> no phil you were cheated :p
[16:33] <jgrahamc> Your SparkFun pint glass is a US pint.
[16:33] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, theyre rare nowadays :(
[16:33] <imrcly> i wouldn't mind a milk delivery
[16:33] <Zuph1> I wouldn't either.
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> I get a milk delivery.
[16:33] <fsphil> We still have milk delivered, but it's getting too expensive
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> The nice man from tesco.
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> See above.
[16:33] <NigeyS> they usd to deliver fresh orange juice to .. in a pint bottle!
[16:33] <NigeyS> used*
[16:34] <eroomde> i remember that
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> I find the modern UHT milk is _much_ less noticable than the burnt tasting stuff from the 80s
[16:34] <fsphil> I remember the birds used to steal the creamy bits at the top
[16:34] <NigeyS> lol dam birds!
[16:34] <fsphil> smart birds
[16:34] <fsphil> we had to start covering them
[16:35] <jgrahamc> Well, UHT milk (which is called 'shelf milk' in the US) is treated very differently from pasteurised milk
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> I remember back when they couldn't make reliable bottles, and the milkman came round your house with a cow, that you had to milk yourself.
[16:35] <NigeyS> lol SpeedEvil
[16:35] <imrcly> heh
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[16:36] <NigeyS> goats milk .....
[16:36] <NigeyS> yuck!
[16:36] <Zuph1> Yuck? I disagree.
[16:36] <Laurenceb> its good
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> Goats milk _REALLY_ depens on what they've been eating.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> As indeed does cows milk.
[16:36] <GW8RAK> SpeedEvil, don't get me started on UHT milk. I spent 3 years researching it.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> But cows will not sit down and nibble on a hawthorne bush.
[16:37] <NigeyS> could never get used to the aftertaste of it :\
[16:37] <fsphil> "mmm.. tastes all HAB-payloadie"
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: :)
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[16:37] <jgrahamc> The disadvantage of the SI system is that it's based on 10 which has very few factors so stuff like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 etc is a pain to calculate. Much better to use base 12: http://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/duodecimal.html
[16:37] <GW8RAK> We even had a standard cow to get our milk from.
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: From a 'this is how we make it better' or 'this is how it kills you' POV?
[16:38] <GW8RAK> "To study the flavour changes which occur when milk and dairy products are heated"
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
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[16:38] <NigeyS> what exactly do they do to it to make uht last so long anyway ?
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[16:38] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: So lots of fun with mass spectrometers and stuff I guess, rather thanblabering on about 'it goes sort of caramely'
[16:38] <Zuph1> Heat it to ~160f for like 15/20 seconds.
[16:38] <jgrahamc> They heat it up really, really frickin' hot
[16:38] <NigeyS> yikes
[16:38] <jgrahamc> Hotter
[16:39] <GW8RAK> Capillary GC and a bit of MS. Capillary was only just becoming common at that time.
[16:39] <jgrahamc> 275F
[16:39] <NigeyS> ya thats kinda hot !
[16:39] <Laurenceb> GC, MS?
[16:39] <Laurenceb> of
[16:39] <Laurenceb> nvm
[16:39] <jgrahamc> == 135C and that kills everything. Pasteurization is 160F. Kills most stuff.
[16:39] <GW8RAK> Gas Chromatography
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[16:42] Nick change: Zuph1 -> Zuph
[16:42] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Directions for the UltraLight are now describing how to use its ports. 35 pages so far. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/40451532054994944]
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[16:47] <rjharrison> GW8RAK, I'd wouyld be very interested to hear how you get on with the insurance
[16:47] <eroomde> potentially useful datapoint for someone - ublox 5 units will work about the 100m/s vertical max that the datasheet says
[16:47] <rjharrison> Be good to get new fingers for typing too
[16:48] <eroomde> they will work at 200m/s vertical, infact
[16:48] <eroomde> will work above*
[16:48] <rjharrison> Is that true for the iQ too
[16:48] <GW8RAK> Afternoon rjharrison. With a bit of luck, the BMFA will include it in their list of activities and then we can all get cover.
[16:48] <GW8RAK> Membership is about £30 pa
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Unrelated fun - pascalisation - pressurise food to 40000PSI or so, and everything duies too
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[16:49] <rjharrison> Bloody awsum that will take a bit of pressure off during the landingins
[16:49] <eroomde> rjharrison: almost no way
[16:50] <eroomde> it's tracking engine is made of poo
[16:50] <rjharrison> hehe :)
[16:50] <rjharrison> eroomde, nice email the other day
[16:50] <rjharrison> I have booked lunch with David
[16:50] <eroomde> it's a useful discussion
[16:50] <eroomde> oh yes GW8RAK you will want that too
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[16:50] <rjharrison> Our london office is about 4 min walk from his
[16:51] <eroomde> from the horses mouth about balloons not being much of a risk in air strike
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[16:51] <eroomde> rjharrison: good luck!
[16:51] <rjharrison> eroomde, I note that steve sent that about 5 weeks after my first launch
[16:51] <eroomde> it'd take him about 1/5th the time of a lunch just to issue the damn thing, though
[16:52] <eroomde> i don't really recall the context
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, stilldavid got the text and photos of the NASA / FAA test where they released a balloon payload and entire balloon into a full-RPM jet engine
[16:52] <rjharrison> eroomde, I'll need it but I want to get to the bottom of what the issues are and that email states that they would rather people launched on notams
[16:52] <eroomde> 'would rather'? i thought it was a pretty unambiguous legal requirment
[16:53] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: how did it perform?
[16:53] <rjharrison> Well it talks about public launches of balloons in general ie lots of little baby ones
[16:54] <rjharrison> as well as the odd public sending up met balloons
[16:54] <rjharrison> Technically I belive the 100 party balloon launches should come under notams but few a re issued
[16:55] <eroomde> mmm but met balloons >2m at any point unambiguously need notams, but yeah i agree on the grey area about charity balloon launches
[16:55] <eroomde> infact the CAA were looking into how to regulate them as they didn't really have anything solid
[16:56] <Zuph> It's actually illegal to intentionally release balloons into the air in our city.
[16:57] <Zuph> One reason, among many other stronger reason, that we're launching an hour north of here :)
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[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, the engine didn't hardly change any performance-wise, but some cables and hard plastic parts got stuck on in/on turbine blades
[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> and some blades were chipped
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> however, the payload was only two thin PCBs with solar cells and through hole parts.
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> :-/
[17:03] <rjharrison> Dan-K2VOL, do you have a copy of that
[17:03] <eroomde> just saw the pics. reassuring!
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> rjharrison I do, it's in jpeg form still at the moment, yet to be OCRd and PDFd
[17:03] <rjharrison> ok cool though I can do that in about 4 seconds here
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> oh good, keep that non-released for now, it may be copyrighted
[17:04] <eroomde> indeed, i won't release it
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> share amongst your group is fine, but make sure they obey the same
[17:04] <rjharrison> Don't worry I work in an IP lawfirm :-)
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> ah. well, don't rat us out :-)
[17:04] <rjharrison> www.hgf.com
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde can you share with rjharrison? I don't have them on my work login here
[17:05] <rjharrison> I would argue the case for educational use
[17:05] <rjharrison> Thanks Dan-K2VOL
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> and thanks to stilldavid for taking them
[17:06] <stilldavid> and thanks to NCAR for ... well, everything :)
[17:06] <rjharrison> thep thanks stilldavid still logged in
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting rjharrison, may use your services someday when we expand our work products to the UK and Europe
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I like the guy with his hands in his pants
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> in the report photos
[17:07] <eroomde> when men were men
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> that's right
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe we were thinking of all donning black horn rim glasses, white shirts and black ties for the mission control video stream for SpeedBall
[17:09] <rjharrison> cool :-)
[17:10] <rjharrison> It's not tecnically my firm I jast have the same surname as the founder. Though I am a partner for what it's worth
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[17:10] <jgrahamc> I have a white labcoat that I wear to look important while no one's looking as I solder in the basement
[17:10] <eroomde> i do fanny craddock impersonations when I cook alone
[17:11] <eroomde> i beleive you're all meant to give me a clap now
[17:11] <jgrahamc> I like to pretend to be Julia Child
[17:11] <jgrahamc> clap clap clap
[17:12] <rjharrison> Surely you don't want the clap
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[17:12] <eroomde> my fanny craddock sounds like julia child after a few glasses of red
[17:13] <jgrahamc> ha ha ha
[17:14] <eroomde> i have to cook this evening
[17:14] <eroomde> my housemates family are coming
[17:14] <jgrahamc> Taking GAGA-1 to my parents house this weekend for a long distance test of the RTTY.
[17:14] <eroomde> i bought loads of nice stuff, then he texted 30 mins ago to say 'by the way they're vegetarian'
[17:15] <Zuph> hah
[17:15] <eroomde> once i have managed to extract the knife from the wall, i will try and think up something
[17:15] <jgrahamc> Move to France. Vegetarianism is illegal.
[17:15] <eroomde> I am half french. i prefer this half
[17:15] <eroomde> save for the food and wine
[17:16] <eroomde> this, seeing as you might not be able to infer scope, is pointing to english me
[17:16] <jgrahamc> I'd forgotten that. In the UK if you invite people you spend an hour dealing with all the requirements (allergies, veggies, etc.). In France, no one ever asks anything like that.
[17:17] <eroomde> they just don't get invited to our house
[17:17] <eroomde> i tend not to invite engineers and compscis so often so it's less of a problem :)
[17:19] <Zuph> Good policy.
[17:19] <eroomde> also everyone is spaceflight is a hardy carnivore
[17:19] <eroomde> but one of them is tea-total
[17:19] <eroomde> that looks wrong
[17:19] <eroomde> tee-total
[17:20] <jgrahamc> Tee total isn't a real restriction. Those folks will drink water at dinner parties.
[17:20] <eroomde> they have no choice
[17:20] <eroomde> it's burgundy or water
[17:23] <jgrahamc> Sounds like a good family motto. Just translate to Latin.
[17:24] <eroomde> our french house neighbours the chateux which has inscribed in the stone work above the entrance 'Les vins de Savigny sont nourrissants, théologiques et morbifuges.'
[17:24] <eroomde> which I think is a little overstated, perhaps
[17:24] <eroomde> but true enough
[17:24] <eroomde> that's as close as we get to a family moto
[17:25] <eroomde> for non-frogophones that means roughly 'he wines of Savigny are nourishing, theological and stave off death'
[17:25] <jgrahamc> Brilliant
[17:25] <Zuph> I like that.
[17:28] <eroomde> i've certainly felt a little theological after a 2nd bottle of the stuff
[17:29] <jgrahamc> That's why monks make all that beer and spirits.
[17:30] <eroomde> they do
[17:30] <eroomde> cheese too
[17:31] <eroomde> we're not far from the brotherhood at citeaux, where they make the supposedly famous citeaux cheese
[17:31] <jgrahamc> Yummy
[17:31] <eroomde> you can buy a wheel for 12 euros
[17:31] <eroomde> or you can get buy the same wheel but blessed by a monk (who is installed somewhere near the till) for 15 euros
[17:32] <jgrahamc> Is Citeaux near Orléans?
[17:33] <eroomde> not really
[17:33] <eroomde> well, not this one
[17:33] <eroomde> it's near Dijon
[17:33] <jgrahamc> Ah. Thinking of somewhere else.
[17:33] <eroomde> Nuits-Saint-Georges, infact
[17:33] <eroomde> (booooo)
[17:34] <jgrahamc> Hence the Burgundy
[17:34] <eroomde> yup
[17:39] <eroomde> jgrahamc: just read your latest blog update. i would like to, in solidarity, share my rage at the arduino's stupid pin spacing
[17:39] <jgrahamc> eroomde: Thank you. And it's repeated on the Uno as well for backwards compatibility.
[17:40] <jgrahamc> Next time I'm doing my own board from scratch.
[17:43] <eroomde> good idea
[17:43] <eroomde> much easier
[17:45] <Zuph> The reason for that? Massimo Banzi had his grid spacing set wrong, and didn't double check before he sent the first run for production.
[17:46] <jgrahamc> Oops. Ah well.
[17:46] <eroomde> jgrahamc:
[17:46] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o&feature=player_embedded#at=128
[17:46] <eroomde> i warn you, drinking petrol will do less damage to your brain than watching this
[17:48] <jgrahamc> Will watch later
[17:48] <fsphil> 3,690 dislikes, nice
[17:50] <eroomde> a couple of colleagues in the lab have just downed tools and watched dumbfounded
[17:51] <jgrahamc> I grew up with a mother who was into the New Age. Crystals etc. Nothing surprises me about charlatans any more
[17:51] <fsphil> I've just got a black screen .. which is probably for the best
[17:51] <jgrahamc> You are probably on a ley line
[17:51] <fsphil> mmm
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[17:56] <imrcly> http://www.philolzophy.com/post/3031147167/myers-briggs-dating-field-guide
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[18:01] <MrCraig> evening all
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[18:26] <fsphil> hi hi
[18:40] Nick change: laurence__ -> Laurenceb_
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[18:46] <Josh___> hi guys
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:21] <GW8RAK> Evening Lunar_Lander
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[19:22] <GW8RAK> Fine thanks. Yourself?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thank you
[19:22] <GW8RAK> I haven't found a 16MHz xtal yet, but I have some more junk boxes in the shed.
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> that is nice to hear, thanks again! :)
[19:23] <GW8RAK> Everything else is okay. Can you email me your address please. Send it to gogle at 2480sqn dot org dot uk.
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I have one more request
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I think I will need a number of headers to solder to wires
[19:23] <GW8RAK> No, I am not building it for you :)
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> :) no that was not my request
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> I should have said "one further humble request"
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> ;)
[19:24] <GW8RAK> That's good. I don't have time for my own project.
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> do you recognize the line I gave there?
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> it's a movie citation
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[19:25] <GW8RAK> No, I tend to fall asleep during movies.
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> this is said in "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" and the character is Rufus, played by George Carlin
[19:26] <GW8RAK> What do you need headers wise?
[19:26] <GW8RAK> A film I've never seen all the way through.
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> those which you can plug into the arduino ports
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> so I think these are those called "Male"
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> I do not know if they have a specific name
[19:27] <GW8RAK> I think I know what headers they are. 0.1" ones or 2mm ones?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
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[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> I found out
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> (20:29:43)<||cw>Lunar_Lander: same as a breadboard
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> (20:29:48)<Lunar_Lander>ah
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> (20:29:49)<IceBrodie>Lunar_Lander, they're .1mm with ports 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, a ground and aref offset by 0.05
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> wait, there could be a correction
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> (20:31:35)<Cmdr_data>IcreBrodie i think you used the numbers of inches but the letters of SI
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> (20:31:36)<IceBrodie>Lunar_Lander, it is correct, I'm not 100% on my numbers, but yeah, one digital bank is offset by half a breadboard spacing
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> so I think that you need the same headers that can be plugged into a breadboard
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[19:32] <GW8RAK> Normally with a breadboard, you just push wires into the breadboard to make the connection and if required, you lead them out to a separate header.
[19:32] <GW8RAK> Does anyone else know if breadboard headers are available?
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> something like this probably: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/116
[19:35] <GW8RAK> I don't know if those will fit into the breadboard holes. I'll have a look for you.
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> ok, thank you :)
[19:41] <GW8RAK> I can't find any spec. for breadboards here (not at home now), but will test some headers I have on my breadboard.
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> ok, thanks
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> I found something on sparkfun
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I learned that a 3.3 V sensor gets connected to the 3.3V port on the Ard.Uno
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> now I found this sensor
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9569
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> and when I look at the board, I see the 5V, and the arduino also has a 5V pin
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> so logic tells me that this sensor gets connected to there
[19:44] <fsphil> Those headers will fit, but they probably won't be long enough for breadboard
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> the ones I found?
[19:45] <fsphil> yea
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:45] <fsphil> depends on how you want to use them I suppose -- the long side will fit fine
[19:46] <fsphil> my breadboard 5v regulator uses them
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> I need them to plug them into the Uno's ports
[19:48] <fsphil> the uno ports are female?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:49] <fsphil> you'd be better with these: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9388
[19:49] <GW8RAK> Just speaking to a pilot friend. He said, "there's only 1 balloon, so it would only take out 1 engine. No problems"
[19:50] <fsphil> haha
[19:50] <fsphil> what if it's only got one engine?
[19:50] <GW8RAK> His planes are big ones with lots of them.
[19:50] <fsphil> ahh
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> British Airways?
[19:51] <GW8RAK> He is sitting here, so I'd better not criticise Thompson
[19:51] Action: fsphil waves
[19:51] <GW8RAK> Waves back
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD "Braniff. Believe It!"
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> who knows that slogan?
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[20:03] <GW8RAK> Apparently foil party balloons have been seen at 30 000ft.
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-EbALVUvfI
[20:07] <fsphil> hmm, youtube is still black screening me
[20:09] <GW8RAK> You must really be on their banned list.
[20:09] <GW8RAK> What were you watching?
[20:10] <GW8RAK> Or uploading?
[20:10] <fsphil> hehe
[20:10] <fsphil> last thing I watched where some really bad movie reviews
[20:12] <fsphil> hmpf.. the vfo parts kit I got doesn't match the circuit in the intermediate book
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[20:14] <GW8RAK> Does anyone have any suggestions as to a recommended max payload weight please?
[20:14] <GW8RAK> Trying to write a risk assessment for insurance purposes
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> I was once told that the "Nozzle Lift" is what you can hang to the balloon without causing it to fail
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> I think RocketBoy said that
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> or jcoxon
[20:15] <fsphil> neck lift, yea
[20:15] <GW8RAK> I'm thinking of from a safety point of view, i.e. what is the maximum weight we would accept falling on our heads?
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> so 2.7 kg for the 3000
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> I think 2 kg is OK?
[20:16] <fsphil> I wouldn't want anything over 1kg landing on me
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> when the chute is big enough
[20:16] <fsphil> the chute might fail though
[20:16] <GW8RAK> Has anyone ever had a chute fail?
[20:17] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: it happens fairly often
[20:17] <GW8RAK> Oh. I hadn't heard of that.
[20:17] <GW8RAK> I think a kilo is a reasonable weight limit.
[20:17] <jonsowman> the principal mechanism is where the remains of the balloon and cord get wrapped around the chute shroud lines
[20:17] <fsphil> yea, with project cirrus the remains of the balloon wrapped around the chute
[20:17] <jonsowman> it is, unfortunately, quite common
[20:18] <jonsowman> it happened on Apex II which ended up hitting the ground at about 10m/s
[20:18] <fsphil> we had the chute too high up that time
[20:18] <GW8RAK> I was trying to think of some means of holding the balloon on a loop of cord. When the balloon bursts, it can then fall away.
[20:19] <GW8RAK> What about the chutes which are held open. I've seen some square ones with spars. Are they more reliable?
[20:19] <fsphil> rjharrison's advice would be to have the chute 1/3 of the way up the cord, so the balloon will hang below the payload after burst
[20:20] <fsphil> I did that on hadie-2, and it worked well. it was quite a nice descent
[20:20] <jonsowman> fsphil: it's good advice
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[20:20] <jonsowman> it's pretty much the best setup to go for
[20:20] <fsphil> the only other way would be to cut away the balloon
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Or put the balloon on the bottom.
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that was what I meant last week or so
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Couple of servos, and it should be a doddle.
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> that the balloon is cut away after burst
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Problem is that the drag coefficient of the balloon after burst is lower than the payload + chute
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> so...
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> but I got that my 72" chute gives a sea level 3.5 m/s velocity with a 2 kg payload
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil, you'd better test any servos in a cryo chamber before you rely on them in flight
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> most do not work well in the cold
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> why not cut the balloon away BEFORE burst?
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> because the burst could be much higher than the cut level
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[20:33] <fsphil> we needz high altitude :)
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://chrizzzz.de/?p=963
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> check the pics xD
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[20:35] <Josh__> hi everyone
[20:35] <jonsowman> hi Josh__
[20:35] <fsphil> heya
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> that is wrong
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> at least its not spelt with an e
[20:36] <imrcly> Dan-K2VOL: http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2011/02/science-is-desperate.jpeg
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> hey
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> has anyone used the Geiger Counter from sparkfun?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> because someone from canada asks that on the sparkfun channel
[20:39] <Josh__> i'm working on a high altitude balloon project, i heard commercial gps units deliberately stop functioning t high altitudes for security reasons (stopping civilians making missiles), is this true?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> they stop working above 18 km
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> or at a speed greater than 1000 knots
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> you need to find a GPS that is blocked for velocity
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> that will work all the way up
[20:41] <Josh__> ahh ok thanks guys. at the moment we're looking at a gsm vehicle tracker. perhaps radiosondes or homemade arduino based trackers aren't velocity restricted?
[20:42] <Josh__> we have a limited budget!
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> I think the Lassen IQ is good
[20:42] <Josh__> and a poor electronics / programming knowledge lol
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> although it has its price
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah welcome to the club xD
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[20:43] <MrCraig> Advice on the Lassen iQ that I think is worth giving from the start is to purchase the connector and antenna cables with it, because I'd assume that a project on a budget is not going to fork out for the starter kit, and especially if purchasing from Diamond Point you want to combine the postage - I'm sure they make on that.
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[20:44] <MrCraig> Also - thankfully I've not fried mine but pay very close attention to it's data sheet with regards to pulling up the rx pins :)
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> so buy the lassen w/o antenna?
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> you said w/ antenna
[20:45] <MrCraig> well - at least with the antenna connector cable
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:46] <Josh__> pardon my ignorance, but does the lassen iq need to be hitched up to another circuit to transmit a signal back the ground?
[20:46] <MrCraig> the pins on the lassen are tiny, so unless you buy the power and I/O cable with it, there's really no easy way to connect to it - I'd be frightened to solder that small
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[20:47] <MrCraig> With regards to the antenna - it's a similar deal though not as critical because that connector is probably available at many stores - but you'll need it none the less - so buy at least the connector cable.
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> I saw sparkfun has antennas with a connector
[20:48] <MrCraig> And yes, the lassen iQ will give you GPS data but it's up to you to re-transmit that data to ground, so you need a communications system - and probably a microcontroller to convert the data if you want to track it with the software typically used by the group here.
[20:48] Action: Laurenceb_ never trusts sparkfun
[20:48] <Josh__> oh ok i see
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> is sparkfun bad?
[20:49] <MrCraig> I've not worked with sparkfun - it might be a viable option because it comes afaik with a breakout board to connect to the GPS and isn't it a microcontroller starter kit in it's self? Personally, I'd already decided to try PIC chips and so bought the Lassen seperately.
[20:50] <MrCraig> My choice of components (though I've not flown them yet, I'm a newbie too) is LassenIQ -> PIC 16F628 -> Radiometrix NTX2
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:51] <MrCraig> I'm getting data from the GPS already, the software on my PIC is imperfect and locks up, and the NTX2 appears to work but I won't know for sure until I test it with digiflidgiethingy.
[20:51] <fsphil> you know, that's a much better name
[20:51] <MrCraig> Still working out the bugs in that software :)
[20:52] <fsphil> digiflidgie
[20:52] <MrCraig> lol I've never learned to pronounce or even spell it yet, I just did what I do when I'm reading a book and can't pronounce something - I inserted a made up silly word that almost fits the syllables
[20:52] <fsphil> I do that, but it's always embarrassing when you get in a conversation later and pronounce everything wrong :)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> we got a scientist at uni, his name is Moulkadjanian
[20:53] <MrCraig> ahhh, I dodge the embarrassment by using the silly word as though I intended to do that
[20:53] <MrCraig> lol
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> when I met him first I said "Are you Dr. Moulkadja..erm..jajajian?"
[20:53] <fsphil> the voice synth had fun with that name
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> I was told he is from Armenia
[20:54] <MrCraig> took me two weeks to learn to pronounce the name of a man I work with, can't spell it but it sounds like Kanepalipoleysivanandun.
[20:54] <MrCraig> yeah
[20:54] <MrCraig> luckily he'll accept kanex for short
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:56] <MrCraig> and you thought sending a camera to the edge of space was tricky - when I'm done with that I plan to program the thermometer on my cooker to never burn a pizza again
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:57] <MrCraig> yeah - I'll only need 40 microcontrollers to build the neural networking circuitry
[20:57] <fsphil> or program it to burn it at just the right amount
[20:58] <Josh__> ok thanks guys
[20:58] <Josh__> on a completely new subject :D.....
[20:58] <Josh__> i've heard the launching site in cambridge has blanket permission. can i just go there and launch whenever? or do i have to contact someone?
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think you need to wait for jcoxon to come back from Vienna
[20:59] <fsphil> You need to contact CUSF -- eroomde is one
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> or jonsowman knows more maybe
[20:59] <Josh__> ahhh ok i see
[20:59] <Josh__> i dont plan on launching until june/july
[21:00] <Josh__> another issue i've thought about is insurance and public liability insurance etc etc. does this come under the blanket permission? how do you guys go about it?
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[21:00] <jonsowman> Josh__: I'm part of CUSF and we can probably support your launch
[21:00] <MrCraig> that's a point - I am aiming for a launch early in april. Will it take long to get approval come through? I want to coincide the launch with a break from work?
[21:01] <jonsowman> MrCraig: leave at least 28 days
[21:01] <jonsowman> more like 6 weeks if you can really
[21:01] <MrCraig> ok so I really need to be applying now
[21:01] <jonsowman> MrCraig: yeah, they can be very slow
[21:01] <MrCraig> what is CUSF? I still need to approach CAA directly right?
[21:02] <Josh__> thanks jon
[21:03] <Josh__> another issue i've thought about is insurance and public liability insurance etc etc. does this come under the blanket permission? how do you guys go about it?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> CU Spaceflight MrCraig
[21:05] <MrCraig> oooh cambridge university - cool thanks. So if I approach CUSF and they are agreeable I can launch from their site under their exemption?
[21:06] <jonsowman> MrCraig: I'm part of CUSF and we tend to be happy to accomodate launches
[21:09] <jonsowman> MrCraig: the best thing to do is email the CUSF mailing list
[21:09] <MrCraig> :-) Great - then I'll apply to you directly with a thank you of custard creames.
[21:09] <jonsowman> cuspaceflight@cusu.cam.ac.uk
[21:09] <jonsowman> mention that you've spoken to me, and what and when you're intending to launch
[21:10] <MrCraig> I will join the group in mere moments after finishing my plate of charcole
[21:10] <fsphil> mmm
[21:10] <fsphil> a bit of carbon never harmed anyone
[21:10] <MrCraig> we're all made of the stuff, I can't see it being a bad thing
[21:10] <MrCraig> it's ok with pepper
[21:10] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> is this good: http://www.watterott.com/index.php?page=product&info=426
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:11] <fsphil> they're ridged, designed to join track on breadboard
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:13] <fsphil> the jumpers are the best bet for connecting arduino to breadboard
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> the wires they offer tere?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> there
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> or do you mean the male-to-male ones you posted earlier
[21:18] <fsphil> the earlier ones, or something similar
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:35] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Magic
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> what.the.hell
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[21:38] <imrcly> gft "Some chaos magicians also use psychedelic drugs in practices"
[21:38] <imrcly> thats what it is about
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> ah all is explained
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[21:45] <imrcly> here also appears to be sex and forgetting about the night before along with sleep deprivation and conference calls
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[21:47] <Laurenceb_> seems like something that surely has an irc channel devoted to it
[21:48] <MrCraig> Several in fact.
[21:48] Action: Laurenceb_ facepalms
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[22:00] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... FreeNode having a moment there...
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander2> that happened yesterday also
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander2> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=260649702673
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander2> is such a big one worth it?
[22:06] <Darkside> freenode has been having any such moments lately
[22:06] <Darkside> many*
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander2> so leaded solder is better?
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> Leaded solder is better, if you will never work on lead-free parts with it.
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander2> oh ok
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> When you start mixing chemistries, unexpected things can happen.
[22:11] <MrCraig> May be a very stupid question but, isn't leaded solder illegal now?
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[22:11] <Lunar_Lander2> I think it is still allowed for space
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Which can include amusing stuff like you making alloys that melt at 80C around the junction of the two solders.
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander2> and for private use
[22:11] <Darkside> no, it is still used in high reliability systems
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander2> so if I only use one solder, it is OK?
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[22:12] <Darkside> dont worry too much about it
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> ok
[22:13] <Darkside> for this, it shouldn't matter much
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> found a breadboard
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> 830 contacts
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> that is OK?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> it has 10 columns and like 60 lines
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander2> plus the power rails
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Exact size is uncritical
[22:14] <Darkside> why are you using a breadboard
[22:14] <Darkside> if you bump it thinks will break
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander2> I was told to do so
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander2> or better I was recommended to
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Breadboard is OK for prototypes that will never move.
[22:14] <Darkside> a breadboard, or a protoboard
[22:15] <Darkside> like one you solder
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> If you means olderless breadboard.
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah I mean the breadboard would be for testing the setup
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander2> not for flying
[22:15] <imrcly> you could just use stale bread
[22:15] <Darkside> oh good
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander2> lol imrcly
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander2> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander2> here
[22:15] <Darkside> i thought you were flying a breadboard
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander2> no, NigeyS already helped me out by pointing out that you don't do that
[22:16] <Darkside> that would have been scary
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander2> :)
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[22:16] <Darkside> haha
[22:16] Nick change: stilldavid -> 5EXAB8HZX
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander2> I use an Arduino Uno
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[22:16] <MrCraig> you mean I can't fly my breadboard?! <kidding>
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander2> xD
[22:17] <Darkside> im flying an arduino protoshield soon lol
[22:17] <imrcly> i secretly replaced all the whitestar electronics with breadboards lets see if they notice
[22:17] <Darkside> hacked up hf transmitter ftw
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> I've done a broadcast FM transmitter on breadboard.
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> You use the adjacent strips as 10pF capacitors.
[22:18] <Darkside> yeah lol
[22:18] <Darkside> stray capacitance everywhere
[22:19] <MrCraig> oh there's a question, how do electrolytics like the cold of the borders of space?
[22:19] <imrcly> depends on the electrolytic
[22:19] <Darkside> good question, i havent used many
[22:20] <imrcly> we made sure all of ours are rated
[22:20] <Darkside> and i have no idea how my hf amp is going to like -20 degrees
[22:20] <Darkside> lol
[22:20] <MrCraig> Hmm, ok before I solder anything to my flight board I'll check that out then
[22:20] <Darkside> though it gets pretty warm, it should be ok
[22:20] <Darkside> freaking low efficiency linear amps
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[22:21] <Darkside> oh well
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[22:21] <Darkside> if it dies, theres another transmitter there
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[22:35] <[STAR]Atanyi> evening
[22:35] <[STAR]Atanyi> uh
[22:35] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi -> Upu
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[22:35] <Upu> try again
[22:35] <Upu> evening
[22:35] <fsphil> ello ello!
[22:35] <Upu> just got back from Robs talk
[22:35] <Upu> was very good
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[22:36] <fsphil> good crowd?
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[22:40] <Lunar_Lander2> hello Upu
[22:40] <Upu> hi Lunar
[22:40] <Upu> yes wasn't bad
[22:41] <Upu> once they were walmed up with gags about dropping things on peoples heads
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander2> lol
[22:41] Nick change: Aucthree -> Auctus
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander2> I am just ordering a breadboard :)
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[22:42] <Upu> very good :)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander2> 830 contacts is good?
[22:42] <Upu> no idea :)
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander2> xD
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander2> but a XXL board is not required right :)?
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander2> I mean like this: http://cgi.ebay.de/Breadboard-Steckbrett-Experimentierbrett-XXL-Labor-NEU-/160547067852?pt=Elektromechanische_Bauelemente&hash=item256159d7cc
[22:50] <Upu> looks fine to me just check the power rails run down the side
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander2> but that is much more expensive like the one I saw now
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander2> because the one I am going to order looks like in the tutorial you showed me
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[22:56] <Lunar_Lander2> the bigger one is for the future maybe :)
[22:59] <MrCraig> ok - my bed is calling out to me. Goodnight all.
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[23:03] <Upu> good plan - night all
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander2> night
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander2> good night
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[23:55] spacefelix (809ecabb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.158.202.187) left irc:
[23:55] <stilldavid> yes! the new GS407 breakout boards are in!
[23:56] Action: stilldavid does happy dance
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 24 2011