highaltitude.log.20110214

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[00:42] <NigeyS> do b doo
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[00:49] <Dan-K2VOL> strangers in the night
[00:50] <NigeyS> yush
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[01:15] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL you about ?
[01:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[01:16] <NigeyS> ah good, quick Q, what is the name of the connectors on the jumper cables, the female type ? trying to find some but not sure of their proper name :|
[01:18] <Dan-K2VOL> dunno off the top of my head
[01:19] <Dan-K2VOL> Check the wiki.whitestarballoon.org search
[01:19] <Dan-K2VOL> for molex
[01:19] <NigeyS> ahh cheers dan
[01:19] <Dan-K2VOL> np
[01:20] <NigeyS> finished my prototype sensor board :D
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[03:44] <kylehotchkiss> Curiosity: I have some ideas related to a moored balloon flight at 500ft. Would the 36in balloons they sell at a local party shop work fine?
[03:46] <Darkside> you might want a bit more lift than that
[03:47] <Darkside> i've only done tethered balloons to 150ft, and we used 100g balloons
[03:49] <kylehotchkiss> I was gonna fill 2 up, that should be fine for less then a lb i would think.
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[06:45] <earthshine> morning
[06:48] <Dan-K2VOL> too morning
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[10:14] <m1x10> Hi all
[10:14] <earthshine> hi
[10:16] <fsphil> g'day
[10:20] <jgrahamc> morning
[10:39] <m1x10> hi fsphil
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[11:43] <fsphil> mmm we need a proper high altitude launch soon!
[11:44] <jgrahamc> I'm working on mine. Expect to be 100% complete in early March.
[11:45] <jgrahamc> At this point I have some final testing to do and I need to buy a balloon.
[11:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9810
[11:47] Action: Laurenceb facepalms
[11:47] <Laurenceb> sparkfun fail at designing breakout boards and ben on the comments is completely wrong
[11:50] <jgrahamc> Also Sparkfun == expensive
[11:50] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:50] <fsphil> but they're sooo handy
[11:50] <Laurenceb> i have $10 from free day.. cant be bothered to spend it
[11:51] <Laurenceb> might buy a bmp-085 as its a pain to source
[11:51] <jgrahamc> They are handy. I'm using one of their boards in my HAB for the Telit module. But it was a lot of money and next time I'm doing my own board design.
[11:51] <Laurenceb> was going to get the breakout board but its utter fail
[11:51] <Laurenceb> the sensor stick is nice, but expensive and lame accel
[11:52] <Laurenceb> i bet they just listen to ben on the comments and screw up the design for a second time
[11:52] <Laurenceb> table 4 in the lsm303dlh datasheet, they can run it on 3.3v
[11:53] <Laurenceb> -the i2c
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[11:53] <Laurenceb> alternatively the st reference design, or just ask st
[12:03] <Laurenceb> also http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STEVAL-MKI064V1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlZAfbtrLeywTnD%2fPrn71o
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> I also can't find anything for $10 I actually want.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> SF don't really have much at the low end. :)
[12:24] <fsphil> I got a load of cables, and a pint glass :)
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[12:59] <Elwell> is there a european equivalent of sparkfun?
[13:00] <earthshine> No
[13:00] <earthshine> But ltos of shops sell Sparkfun stuff
[13:01] <Elwell> yeah, I was trying to avoid the (US price + reseller margin) tax :-)
[13:01] <jgrahamc> What is it that you want to buy?
[13:01] <fsphil> proto-pic and coolcomponents are pretty good uk shops
[13:01] <jgrahamc> I'm asking because I have to go to the US fairly often for work and if it's something small I could get it while I'm there and bring it back.
[13:03] <Elwell> oh thats a point - am over there in a few weeks and I think the condo will accept parcels
[13:03] <jgrahamc> There you go
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[13:54] <NigeyS> finally, proof that there is tomuch porn on the internet! all of the data we accumulated between 1986 and 2007 on PCs, DVDs and good old-fashioned paper would, if slapped on CDs, create a megastack of discs "that would reach beyond the Moon".
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> I've often wondered how much truly unique data there is.
[13:56] <NigeyS> makes you think don't it, they also say that "broadcast" data comes in around 2 Zetabytes :|
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Where truly unique copies of 'Godfather' = maybe 200Megabytes/hour/camera actually filming it.
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Not counting all of the different prints.
[13:57] <NigeyS> it's still be a fair old amount
[13:57] <NigeyS> it'd*
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> But simply adding up all the disk capacirties in the world gives you a silly number
[13:58] <NigeyS> oh aye, highly inflated, it's all guesswork in the end, either way i don't think we're going to run out of "storage" space anytime soon
[14:01] <NigeyS> hmm has anyone seen any Light Peak components yet ?
[14:02] <Laurenceb> huh
[14:02] <NigeyS> Light Peak components are expected to begin to become available to customers in late 2010, and Intel expects to see Light Peak in PCs and peripherals in 2011.
[14:03] <Laurenceb> interesting
[14:03] <fsphil> "followed by a recall due to a design flaw in 2012..."
[14:04] <NigeyS> noooooooo they cant delay :(
[14:04] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kidmWiqKzqY ....... its pretty impressive stuff
[14:05] <Laurenceb> breakback peak?
[14:05] <NigeyS> lol
[14:05] <Laurenceb> *brokeback
[14:06] <NigeyS> 10Gbps bi-directional mmmm
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[14:17] <NigeyS> morning Dan-K2VOL
[14:17] <m1x10> fsphil: I need to run a servo at 7.3mhz
[14:17] <Dan-K2VOL> morning nigeyS
[14:17] <m1x10> current libs are just for 16mhz
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[16:15] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Working on UltraLight testing directions and have about half of second comps complete. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/37183267249590272]
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[17:03] <Dooberry> Evening
[17:05] <Dooberry> quick total noob question: i'm looking at launching a high altitude balloon with a camera attached. I'm considering using an iphone to track the position for recovery, but if launching from Cambridge on an ideal day (i.e. relatively calm winds) what is the maximum distance the balloon could fall from its original launch position?
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[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> don't launch an expensive iPhone, go buy a SpotTracker if you're going to use something off the shelf
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> or use the ukhas.org site to get some ideas there
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> and if you're in Cambridge, talk to CUSF
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> there are several members on here
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> Dooberry
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I think eeromde is one
[17:07] <Dooberry> hmm okay, it's just the iphone is an old 3g which is going to get replaced anywhere
[17:07] <Dooberry> cracked, bad screen, etc.
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> well, perhaps that would work then
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> you won't get signal while up in the air far
[17:08] <Dooberry> Also worth noting that i'll be using a Kaymont 1,500g sounding balloon so expect around 35,000metres of height
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> but might when you land, if you insulate it
[17:08] <Dooberry> aye, that's the plan. Never done this before although i'm reading the wiki for tips
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> a 1500g is pretty overkill for a camera flight, you will save a lot of money and effort by going with soemthing like a 600g
[17:08] <Dooberry> will that hit a decent altitude though?
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> the pictures from 90,000ft aren't any different than from 115000 ft
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> other than the money you spent on them
[17:09] <Dooberry> heh
[17:09] <imrcly> iphones don't like cold i have killed one by leaving it in my car
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> hey tim
[17:09] <imrcly> hey
[17:09] <Dooberry> in regards to the 600g balloon, any recommended retailers?
[17:10] <Dan-K2VOL> you'll need to keep lots of bubble wrap around the iphone, and paint your box black, that'll keep it toasty
[17:10] <Dooberry> yeah, I read on the wiki it'll need to insulate up to around -50C
[17:10] <Dan-K2VOL> in the UK? ukhas site probably has a link, there's some science reseller over there for balloons
[17:10] <Dooberry> i'll have a peak, cheers
[17:10] <Dooberry> *peek
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, but don't go overboard with the insulation dooberry, literally 3 layers of small cell bubble wrap in the open air is enough to keep it at 20C for a daytime flight
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> the solar radiation is a lot higher up there, and the air's ability to cool things is much poorrt
[17:11] <imrcly> mintyboost with lithiums might save the battery if it keeps a constant charge on it to keep it warming itself
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> good idea
[17:12] <Dooberry> My main concern is the balloon payload landing miles away
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> use Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries for the mintyboost dooberry
[17:12] <Dooberry> and by miles away I mean in the sea / a populated area/ etc
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha use the cusf predictor, you launch when it's going where you want it to
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> not when you want to launch
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> dooberry http://habhub.org/predict/
[17:13] <Dooberry> yeah, I found one that used US meteo data
[17:13] <Dooberry> ahhhh
[17:13] <Dooberry> much obliged
[17:13] <Dooberry> ooh fancy Google Maps integration
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> np, imrcly and I are part of WhiteStarBalloon.org, keep an eye out for us, we may be headed your way
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, that's done by people who are usually in this chat room from cambridge uni
[17:14] <Dooberry> US to Europe?
[17:14] <Dooberry> whoaa
[17:15] Action: jonsowman waves
[17:15] <Dooberry> you're not including a camera in the payload?
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hi jonsowman
[17:15] <jonsowman> hi Dan-K2VOL :) how're things?
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> dooberry we might, but it is very low priority - there's been a jillion pictures on the internet from weather balloons, we're not likely to see anything interesting, we're flying at the same altitude as airliners do.. We would like to have a video of landing in europe though, so we're trying now that everything else is done
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> oh busy as hell jon
[17:16] <W0OTM> Howdy
[17:16] <jonsowman> heh, you're not the only one
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> worked every minute this weekend with imrcly and zuph down at the hackerspace on white star SpeedBall-1
[17:17] <jonsowman> good stuff :) things going well?
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yes, nearly ready to fly, all the hardware seems mostly stable, it went through the second cryo
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> tested cutdown
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> did you see the video?
[17:17] <jonsowman> I didn't
[17:17] <jonsowman> got a link?
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12659392
[17:18] <jonsowman> nice! good work
[17:18] <jonsowman> nichrome seems like a pretty good cutdown mechanism
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> now we're just debugging the telemetry routines in the flight computer, which have to be done before the web team can test their stuff
[17:18] <jonsowman> used it on one of my projects before, but never used the cutdown
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> it's very reliable stuff
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> but
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> you must keep the batteries warm
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> MUST
[17:19] <jonsowman> indeed, what batteries are you using
[17:19] <jonsowman> ?
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> we tested energizer ultimate lithiums as the best kind of lithiums for any balloon work
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> AAs
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> used 4 for this cutdown in series
[17:19] <jonsowman> yep
[17:20] <jonsowman> they're great
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> however, even they can't do it at 40C
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> unless you paralleled a bunch up
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> we tested them at 40C on the cutdown before that video, no glow at all
[17:20] <jonsowman> one of the reasons why we tend to use black power/pyro cutdowns really
[17:20] <jonsowman> *powder
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> however, they'll be electrically heated to 20C, the temp at which you saw the cutdown go
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> how do you ensure safety of the discoverers if it lands undetonated
[17:22] <Dan-K2VOL> that's me in the video btw
[17:22] <Dan-K2VOL> if you wondered who's who here
[17:24] <jonsowman> they're pretty difficult to detonate accidentally
[17:24] <jonsowman> lithium thionyl chloride batteries are good too if you need capacity
[17:24] <jonsowman> bit expensive though
[17:25] <Zuph> They don't pump out the current we need.
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[18:17] <m1x10> Hi
[18:21] <Dan-K2VOL> hi m1x10
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[18:27] <m1x10> SpeedEvil ! :p
[18:28] <m1x10> I got a new problem to solve.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Does it involve elephants?
[18:28] <m1x10> avr timers work differently at other frequencies.
[18:28] <m1x10> so pwm does not work as it would at 16mhz
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> The PWM timer typically has a configurable divider between the clock source, and the PM unit
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> PWM
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> I've not looked specifically at AVR timers recently
[18:31] <m1x10> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168377_1586456106128_1377549819_1375856_1167036_n.jpg
[18:32] <m1x10> http://pastebin.com/BQQXRPjg : this code is for 16mhz cpu
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - headache - I can't read code ATM.
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> What's it do that it shouldn't?
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Also - check the datasheet - to see if the PWM unit has a maximum frequency
[18:40] <m1x10> ping fsphil
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[18:48] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone around?
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> anyone want anything from lipoly.de?
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone thinking of how balloons could help in keeping countries people in communication when their government shuts the internet down?
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> heh
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> might work
[18:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I wonder if you could use laser based communication to a balloon and rx multiple lasers at once using a fisheye lens on a vidcam
[18:52] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL: imo satellite would be better
[18:53] <natrium42> USA could ensure that all people have free satellite internet instead of pretending to spread democracy via empty phrases
[18:53] <natrium42> or donating billions to foreign governments
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> team america ftw
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> haha right, our american culture here is a waste of resources
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> no I'm thinking of situations like in the middle east recently - you could launch a continuous series of balloons to drift across the target countries
[18:55] <natrium42> maybe all western countries need to get together and organize satellite internet for all
[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> satellite internet sucks, you need a lot of power, or a large antenna, or a reallly expensive satellite
[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> to get good bandwidth
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm lipoly.de planes suck compared to http://www.flyingwings.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=158_121&products_id=790
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> affordably on the ground
[18:56] <natrium42> it's fine for spreading democracy
[18:56] <natrium42> you don't need to be able to watch youtube on it
[18:56] <natrium42> iridium and thuraya antennas are tiny
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> just load goatse
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> however, what I'm talking about is being able to set up communications without the approval of any government
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL> who knows which of us may be someday under a capricious government that decides to shut comms down
[18:57] <natrium42> and with better bandwith than hf?
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL> you need to have a service that everyone and their mother can operate
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> not HF, your local police will come and bust your antenna down in that situation, if you were lucky enough to have a giant antenna
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps some sort of super wimax
[18:58] <natrium42> any signal can be triangulated :/
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> that regular clients could be connected to
[18:59] <Dan-K2VOL> which is why you'd want to use a normal device to connect to it
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[19:00] <Hiena> natrium42, maybe some intelligent dust project.
[19:02] <Hiena> Dropping down few billion, small, solar, powered transreceiver. That, would be a totally "gonna catch them all" situation to any government.
[19:02] <Zuph> ping Dan-K2VOL
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[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> hey zuph
[19:02] <natrium42> Hiena: yeah, could use paper airplanes to spread them! :D
[19:03] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: any issue with removing the payload from the cryo and energizing it?
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[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> go ahead, should be dry now
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> you'l have to plug everything back in
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> flight batts were down to 13.5v when shut off
[19:04] <natrium42> how come nobody uses timing to transfer information? send a pulse and the number of milliseconds after the clock tick is the data. of course adjusted for signal travel time...
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[19:04] <Zuph> 13.5@ room temp?
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that's PPM
[19:04] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> natrium
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> Pulse Position Modulation
[19:04] <natrium42> ah
[19:05] <natrium42> so it exists :(
[19:05] <Hiena> On the other hand. Back to the 90's we made over 80 km internet connection with VLF transmitters, only few watt needed to run these devices.
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> it was one of the earliest form of aerospace telemetry actually
[19:05] <natrium42> because the pulse could be strong, right?
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> it's now used as Time Division Multiplexing
[19:06] <Dan-K2VOL> because mechanical analog hardware could generate it using a rotating cam on a motor
[19:06] <Dan-K2VOL> hiena, and an antenna that no one but the most die-hard ham could construct
[19:07] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i think i'm going to miss speedball-1
[19:07] <jcoxon> sorry :-(
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know how to easily distort a balloon into a parabolic shape on one side?
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon what a bummer! well, speedball-1 isn't in the bag yet
[19:07] <jcoxon> i'll be away from friday for 1 week
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> look at
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/226687
[19:08] <Dan-K2VOL> only the green things are done
[19:08] <jcoxon> so if i am away natrium42 is the guy for spacenear.us and fsphil for dl-fldigi
[19:08] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL, natrium42: As an aside, early military CDMA tx techniques are completely insane. They use micro-etched "comb" waveguides, with each finger in the comb representing a different code.
[19:09] <natrium42> ah, wow
[19:09] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, that's good to know, thank you for finding others. anyone in particular going to let people know to be online when the flight is going to happen?
[19:09] <natrium42> jcoxon: where are you going?
[19:09] <jcoxon> natrium42, brussels, vienna and the prague
[19:09] Action: natrium42 is going to cali on saturday
[19:09] <Hiena> Dan-K2VOL, well mine was 300 and 80 meter asymmetric dipole. My pal's was an ungrounded wire fence. Worked well.
[19:09] <natrium42> oh, big trip
[19:09] <Dan-K2VOL> cool natrium42
[19:10] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i'll have a chat with eroomde
[19:10] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[19:10] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks
[19:10] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill has gotten the tx to work better with fldigi finally
[19:11] <jcoxon> yeah i was involved with the discussions with the fldigi author
[19:11] <jcoxon> interesting stuff
[19:11] <jcoxon> in theory fldigi is better at multiple skip decoding
[19:12] <Dan-K2VOL> oh interesting
[19:12] <Dan-K2VOL> glad you were in on that
[19:12] <Zuph> natrium42: also, if you can deal with information acquisition in a more academical respect, Principles of Communication by Ziemer and Tranter is a pretty good text on comm. and mod techniques.
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> Also I have a fun book called Aerospace Telemetry by Stilz 1961, he did several updates through the 1960s too
[19:15] <imrcly> string could be used to make the dish shape then invert it with a wire, plastic rods
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> pretty neat to see how to electro-mechanically encode a dozen analog sensors from a missile test
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm that's an ide
[19:16] <imrcly> like a lamp shade
[19:16] <imrcly> or better a dome tent
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly, or wait, perhaps just a parabolic shaped fabric hat for the balloon, with a chinstrap, it should expand into it
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> actually here's the book I have, it appears to be 1963 http://cgi.ebay.com/Aerospace-Telemetry-1963-Harry-L-Stiltz-editor-/250766620849
[19:18] <imrcly> for superpressure to control expansion using a nylon bag would make adding any shape really easy
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, I was thinking of making a large parabolic RF reflector using a balloon
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm a spherical reflector is better than none
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> actually it's focal point is very fuzzy, that would be better for a non-precision half-silvered balloon reflector with the antenna suspended inside at the focal point
[19:24] <imrcly> using a frame to form the reflector would stabilize it also
[19:24] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Results from Cryo-test: out of 300 samples with working xbee sensor, exactly 3 were invalid.
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph interesting. I guess we need to stamp the added insulation as the solution for now, we don't ahve time to examine why it's working. I can't imagine the sleeping XBee can generate any heat though
[19:26] <imrcly> the temperature of the xbee was ~35 with ambient at 40
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly, that's true, but adding anything hard adds a lot of weight compared to just balloon
[19:26] <imrcly> after insulating
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> how many times did we measure that
[19:26] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Our methods for getting it working weren't exacting. It was pretty much, "make it work make it work oh god".
[19:26] <imrcly> 20 mins it only went down to -40 when i dropped the chamber to -50
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> haha yes, the only thing that was done that seemed to make any change was adding insulation to the top and bottom of each xbee wasn't it?
[19:27] <imrcly> and went back to -35 when i brought it back to -40
[19:27] <imrcly> yep
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I'd be concerned about where that heat is coming from
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> if it's coming from the batteries, that sounds like a significant use of power
[19:28] <Zuph> The xbee is full of angry bees.
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> oh right
[19:28] <imrcly> only the remote xbee sleeps
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[19:28] <Zuph> They have to work harder to carry the packets from the top sensor to the receiver.
[19:28] <imrcly> the bottom stays slightly active on the radio waiting for the message
[19:28] <Zuph> Generating more heat.
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, that makes sense on the bottom one, it's the top one I worry about the battery usage on
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> but it lasted more than 24 hours didn't it? is the top sensor working now brad?
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph
[19:29] <imrcly> after running for several days the voltage showing on hte analog pin was the same
[19:30] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Haven't dared energize anything yet. Just pulled the data logger.
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[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
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[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly, which analog pin? there's like 2 or three values comeing down for math aren't there?
[19:34] <imrcly> 2 values thermister and voltage
[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> but was it running at all if it was crashed cause of cold before
[19:35] <imrcly> i am talking about during programming it
[19:35] <imrcly> used to same cheap alkalines for the entire time
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, and at cold temps the Energizer Lithiums can sustain 50ma load darn near to the same capacity as they can at room temp
[19:35] <imrcly> voltage only sagged a little
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> what's a little
[19:36] <imrcly> scale starts at 1024 the batteries started at ~930 ended at ~897
[19:36] <imrcly> i would have to look up the conversion back to voltages
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm it's a 1.2v A/D on there
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> so there's got to be some voltage divider circuit
[19:38] <imrcly> there is a resistor there that probably does that
[19:38] <Zuph> Yeah, I helped gary pick the resistors for that one.
[19:39] <Zuph> No telling if he actually used the values I told him to, though :-p
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[19:42] <imrcly> it is a 0 to 1.8 scale according to the code comment
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[19:44] <Zuph> imrcly: I don't trust it :-p
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[19:45] <Dan-K2VOL> well my 1.2 was from memory, so that's worth less
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[19:53] <imrcly> the minimum reference voltage is 2.08 with the max being 3.4v
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> that's of the 0 to 1024?
[19:53] <imrcly> yeah
[19:53] <imrcly> thats hte a/d reference range of the xbee
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL> huh we'd be over the max with the 3.6v of fresh lithiums
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[19:55] <imrcly> the supply voltage range is 2.8 -3.4 according to the datasheet
[19:56] <jcoxon> natrium42, does the stx2 ever output data or does it require a request first?
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting, then the ultimate lithiums may stress them when fresh
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL> in fact, when not dead, open circuit when they first start up they should always be above 3.4v
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> and drop down below as they take a load
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> but cold may deplete that
[19:58] <imrcly> it takes it 50ma to recieve and idle but only 45ma to transmit also
[19:58] <jcoxon> bbl
[20:00] <Dan-K2VOL> it's asleep for most of the time though
[20:01] <Dan-K2VOL> isn't it?
[20:01] <imrcly> the top one should sleep after transmitting
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[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, actually I wonder, at 50ma continuous it should last for 60 hours
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps we could tell it not to sleep when it's getting cold
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> on the next flight :-)
[20:04] <Dan-K2VOL> actually we could reprogram it now to just stay on without any code changes, couldn't we
[20:04] <Dan-K2VOL> without any arduino changes
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[20:11] <imrcly> in theory, but i don't think we will have a problem now, i am more worried about that battery holder
[20:30] <Zuph> ping Dan-K2VOL
[20:34] <imrcly> ttl expired
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[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> hey zuph
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> i'm not dead yet!
[20:49] <imrcly> i think i might though
[20:49] <Upu> My ISP have just allocated me a block of IPv6 addresses that's 2^24 times larger than the entire IPV4 address space... I think
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> probably
[20:49] <Upu> madness
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> and still you'll probably have to set up nat for security
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> that's madness
[20:50] <imrcly> we are trying to burn though them as fast as possible
[20:50] <Upu> no my firewall works with IpV6
[20:50] <imrcly> so we can have ipv8
[20:50] <Upu> I just need to work out how :)
[20:51] <Hiena> Madness?? No, it is IPV6!!!
[20:51] <Upu> haha
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> imrcly: Compression.
[20:51] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Got it figured out. As an aside, Com controller is taking longer than ever to respond to message requests.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> imrcly: If you use 40 bits of address per packet as data, you can fit a few percent more down a link.
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, can you give me a rough guess of how long brad?
[20:52] <imrcly> i was joking that we are allocating ipv6 in such a random craptastic way we will need more addresses by the time it gets implemented
[20:52] <Zuph> between 1 and 2 minutes.
[20:53] <fsphil> death to NAT :D
[20:54] <imrcly> we will still have NAT because business are run by catch phrases
[20:54] <fsphil> we can invent a new one for the router firewall
[20:55] <fsphil> NAP -- network address preservation
[20:55] <imrcly> if i remember correctly i read someplace that the ipv6 routing already had firewalling built in that has already been hacked
[20:57] <fsphil> I get a fair few ipv6 hits on my site atm
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[21:13] <Randomskk> imrcly: that sounds like it might be the case
[21:13] <Randomskk> then you realise how vast the v6 namespace is
[21:13] <Randomskk> it's unimaginably larger
[21:13] <Randomskk> like, I have four /64s right now, and could get some /48s
[21:13] <Randomskk> just a /64 is the square of the entire v4 namespace
[21:13] <Randomskk> so personally I have four times the /square/ of the v4 namespace
[21:14] <Randomskk> even that doesn't sound like much until you consider how much bigger the square of it is
[21:14] <Randomskk> we already had 4 billion odd, that gets bigger fast when you square it
[21:14] <imrcly> i am just dreading actually implementing v6 here
[21:14] <Randomskk> it's not so bad
[21:14] Action: Randomskk set it up on all his servers and networks
[21:14] <Randomskk> once you get the routers done the rest is easier, too - like all my laptops, printers, desktops etc just connect to wifi/wired and get a v6 address and it Just Works
[21:14] <fsphil> yea surprisingly easy, but it helps if your isp is clued in
[21:14] <imrcly> we have 20 /16 networks here
[21:15] <Randomskk> my ISP isn't, so atm I'm still tunneling
[21:15] <Randomskk> imrcly: that's rather a lot
[21:15] <Randomskk> v4 /16s I take it
[21:15] <imrcly> yeah
[21:15] <fsphil> nice, and I was feeling guilty about my block of 16 ip addresses :)
[21:15] <Randomskk> probably you have very different issues to deal with when implementing v6, then
[21:15] <imrcly> we have over 3000 routers and switches that we bother monitoring
[21:15] <Randomskk> have fun with that
[21:16] <Randomskk> I imagine you have more than one staff member on the payroll to deal with managing that level of resources though :P
[21:16] <imrcly> yes
[21:21] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph that's interesting, which i2c command is it, ATC report?
[21:21] <Zuph> yes
[21:22] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph nice multiple monitor setup, is that virutal monitor?
[21:22] <Zuph> virtual monitor?
[21:22] <Zuph> Fences just stole all the icons
[21:22] <Zuph> afaik
[21:22] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[21:23] <Dan-K2VOL> teamviewer warned me that the server had multiple monitors
[21:23] <Zuph> I am unaware
[21:23] <Zuph> I'm sitting in the space, and there aren't two monitors :-p
[21:25] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[21:28] <imrcly> there is 2 monitors
[21:29] <imrcly> the projector through the radio
[21:30] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph, it's pretty instantaneous using the bus pirate, if the ACK is what we're looking for
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[21:33] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph ! teamviewer lets you choose which monitor to use on the fly, very handy
[21:36] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Taking a look, it might have been some debug code I was putting in. Investigating more.
[21:36] <Dan-K2VOL> k
[21:37] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks imrcly
[21:37] <Dan-K2VOL> for explaining
[21:40] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: This sample gathering code is whacked up. I *probably* won't be able to get it fixed tonight. I'm going to take tomorrow off, though, and see what I can do.
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[21:53] <Dan-K2VOL> np, there's plenty left to do on my end anyway. we should spend a bit of time home anyway today I imagine ;-)
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[22:07] <Dooberry> me again with another quick one - if I wanted to launch from EARS and avoid the CAA bureaucracy, who would I need to speak to from UKHAS? And what sort of notice would I need to give?
[22:07] <jcoxon> you need to talk with RocketBoy
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[22:08] <Dooberry> ah cheers, i'll drop him a DC later
[22:08] <Dooberry> any idea of notice?
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> 2 weeks maybe - ask
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[22:10] <Laurenceb_> RocketBoy usually goes to EARS meetups - first sunday of every month or something?
[22:11] <Dooberry> ahh ok, i'll drop him a message and see what I need to do
[22:19] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
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[22:30] <natrium42> jcoxon: yo
[22:32] <jcoxon> -> pm
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[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> hekki
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[23:52] <Dan-K2VOL> hi lunar_lander
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> everything allright=
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[23:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh coming along
[23:56] <Dan-K2VOL> you?
[00:00] --- Tue Feb 15 2011