highaltitude.log.20110131

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[00:01] <NigeyS> hey dan
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[00:10] <natrium42> haha, stilldavid, your photo is an ad on reddit
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[04:06] <Darkside> hey all
[04:06] <Darkside> does anyone know the burst diameter of a 2kg balloon?
[04:06] <Darkside> (approx)
[04:07] <Darkside> nvm
[04:08] <Darkside> found the ukhas page
[04:08] <Darkside> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[04:11] <juxta> hey Darkside
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[07:56] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch 2"
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[12:14] <shenki> juxta: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/page5/
[12:25] <Elwell> what's the 'CONT 1.4 sm3' on the bottle?
[12:26] <Elwell> standard cubic metres?
[12:28] <Darkside> loool shenki
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[12:33] <juxta> oh sweet, will look at them now :D
[12:38] <Darkside> theres no pictures there of the balloon in the air
[12:38] <Darkside> but there is a video on youtube somewhere
[12:39] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwsy9MThwns
[12:39] <Darkside> that one
[12:39] <Darkside> of course theres no attribution to either joel ir I
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[12:42] <Darkside> http://www.flickr.com/photos/karora/5394549680/\
[12:42] <Darkside> http://www.flickr.com/photos/karora/5394549680/
[12:42] <Darkside> ARGH
[12:44] <Darkside> man theres a few pictures of me on there
[12:46] <Darkside> oh man these are that guys photos
[12:46] <Darkside> the guy with the beard
[12:46] <Darkside> i know because of this one" http://www.flickr.com/photos/karora/5379942958/
[12:49] <griffonbot> Received email: gerard_mp <gerardmarull@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Selling things for sounding ballooning (parachute, latex
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[13:22] <NigeyS> afternoon
[13:32] <Darkside> juxta: http://picasaweb.google.com/DavidTangye/LCA2011#5568227682615788322
[13:32] Action: NigeyS sends his flu to Darkside .. present for ya
[13:33] <Darkside> :<
[13:34] <NigeyS> :/
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[14:02] <m1x10> Hello
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[14:22] <shenki> Darkside: andrew mcmillan
[14:22] <Darkside> the photographer?
[14:40] <Laurenceb> what a bunch
[14:40] <Darkside> Laurenceb: what cc1111 breakout are you using?
[14:40] <Darkside> or did you make your own
[14:40] <Laurenceb> cc1020
[14:41] <Laurenceb> from mouser
[14:41] <Laurenceb> its documented on the wiki
[14:41] <Darkside> oh ok
[14:41] <Darkside> http://www.altusmetrum.org/TeleDongle/
[14:41] Action: Laurenceb is presently v annoyed by lack of dma on avr
[14:41] <Laurenceb> just not enough spare cycles to add rssi data
[14:41] <Darkside> use an xmega then
[14:41] <Darkside> xmega has DMA
[14:42] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of stm8
[14:42] <Laurenceb> theres one more way i could try with nested isrs
[14:42] <Laurenceb> presently too demoralised to try :P
[14:43] <Laurenceb> cc1111 cant do raw data dump over spi aiui
[14:43] <Laurenceb> also it has a poor lna, but you can get around that with your own lna on the front
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[14:44] <Darkside> ahh ok
[14:44] <Darkside> they only use them over a few km range
[14:44] <Darkside> if that
[14:45] <Darkside> ok i need to get to bed..
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Any particular reason for stm8 over 32?
[14:51] <Laurenceb> simple, fewer pins
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> masochism
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[15:02] <mattltm> Hi all :)
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[15:29] <jgrahamc> Howdy folks. Anyone got any experience with these parachutes? http://www.the-rocketman.com/recovery.html
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[15:35] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming <jgc@jgc.org> "[UKHAS] Rocketman HAB parachutes"
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[15:48] <NigeyS> afternoon peeps
[15:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore <eam52@cam.ac.uk> "Re: [UKHAS] Rocketman HAB parachutes"
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> jgrahamc we've always used Spherachutes.com chutes with the balloon option
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[16:00] <NigeyS> hi Dan-K2VOL
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi NigeyS
[16:06] <griffonbot> Received email: David Stillman <me@stilldavid.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Rocketman HAB parachutes"
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[16:21] <Laurenceb> http://toastytech.com/guis/bob4.html <-lmao
[16:22] <NigeyS> lol
[16:23] <NigeyS> Laurenceb ... $$PICOCHU,8,00:14:32,51.48683,-3.14732,155*2D3D
[16:23] <NigeyS> its alive!
[16:23] <Laurenceb> huh
[16:23] <NigeyS> my pico computer
[16:23] <Laurenceb> ah
[16:24] Action: NigeyS buys fsphil a few beers :D
[16:24] <NigeyS> wondering wether to add a temp sensor or not
[16:26] <jgrahamc> Thanks Dan-K2VOL
[16:26] Action: Laurenceb wonders how to put lat long into google maps
[16:26] <NigeyS> pass :|
[16:28] <jgrahamc> Laurenceb http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=18539
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> @51.48683,-3.14732
[16:31] <Laurenceb> yeah.. cardiff
[16:32] Action: Laurenceb rages at proxy servers
[16:32] <NigeyS> lol
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[16:44] <Laurenceb> error 500 error 502 error 500 error 502...
[16:44] <NigeyS> eek not good
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[17:28] <jcoxon> payload found
[17:29] <jcoxon> not really in a good way though
[17:29] <Colin-G8TMV> oh?
[17:30] <jcoxon> yeah it must have blown down this morning, went west over the A5 and nearly or slightly bumped into someones car eek
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> oops.
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> :(
[17:30] <Randomskk> did you get it back? how'd you know it hit a car?
[17:30] <Randomskk> (who won, the car or picoatlas? :P)
[17:31] <jcoxon> he hten popped into the pub and told the landlord the story who remembered he had my mob number
[17:31] <jcoxon> yeah the man wasn't best pleased
[17:31] <jcoxon> but he is okay about it
[17:31] <Randomskk> eep! what happened to the car?
[17:31] <jcoxon> i think it just bumped it when driving - must be pretty scary
[17:32] <Colin-G8TMV> clean trouser moment for the driver maybe
[17:32] <Colin-G8TMV> so is it in the pub now?
[17:32] <jcoxon> no the guy who found it has it
[17:32] <jcoxon> just spoke with him
[17:32] <jcoxon> i'm going to collect it on friday
[17:33] <jcoxon> just realised i better tell him to turn it off
[17:33] <Colin-G8TMV> no, you can home in on it
[17:33] <jcoxon> but it'll block his car key fob
[17:33] <jcoxon> :-p
[17:33] <jcoxon> it did mine
[17:33] <Colin-G8TMV> is it easy to turn off?
[17:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:34] <jcoxon> switch just inside the top
[17:34] <Colin-G8TMV> I hope he realises which end is the top
[17:35] <jcoxon> hehe i'll text him
[17:36] <Colin-G8TMV> better take him a bottle of wine or something to say thankyou
[17:36] <jcoxon> yp
[17:37] <jcoxon> that my plan
[17:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Bernat Tiana <Bernat.Tiana@gmail.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Rocketman HAB parachutes"
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[17:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore <eam52@cam.ac.uk> "Re: [UKHAS] Rocketman HAB parachutes"
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[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL> Jcoxon and cash rewards always work nicely too ;-)
[18:05] <NigeyS> lol, it wouldnt have done any damage anyway, it only weighed 100grams!
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[18:24] Nick change: SpikeUK_ -> SpikeUK
[18:26] <m1x10> why gps bee is like this:
[18:26] <m1x10> $PUBX,00,182546.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,64961824
[18:26] <m1x10> $PUBX,00,182547.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,64961825
[18:26] <m1x10> $PUBX,00,182548.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,6496182A
[18:26] <m1x10> $PUBX,00,182549.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,6496182B
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> no signal?
[18:26] <m1x10> it does not return a complete sentence
[18:26] <m1x10> just this
[18:26] <m1x10> because it does not have a lock it sends this small sentence?
[18:35] <m1x10> SPI_Uart_println("Hello from SPI2UART Bridgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !");
[18:35] <m1x10> output: Hello from SPI2UART Bridgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Look up the spec sheet on the GPS chip
[18:38] <m1x10> its not the gps
[18:40] <m1x10> the spi-2-uart module is loosing characters when i put it to print many
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> ah, try lowering your SPI speed
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[19:07] <NigeyS> ello RocketBoy
[19:09] <RocketBoy> yo folks
[19:09] <NigeyS> are you still planning a lunch this week ?
[19:09] <NigeyS> launch*
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[19:12] <RocketBoy> depends - I need to get some theory done first based on jcoxon's flights - it may not be possible to float with those balloons
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[19:14] <NigeyS> yeah seems to be slightly problematic, alot of headscratching math involved i think :/
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> I think it is
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> But you may need very low lift
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> And balancing is a nasty issue
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[19:20] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil: yeah thats my thought to - the lift you need to ascend turns into internal pressure at float
[19:20] <RocketBoy> (i.e. differential pressure)
[19:22] <RocketBoy> i think i have got my head round it - i just need to write it up and turn it into a spreadsheet
[19:22] <Zuph> SpeedEvil, RocketBoy: Dan-K2VOL and I plan a series of experiments this summer with tow balloons and superpressure envelopes.
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[19:23] <RocketBoy> cool
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: yeah.
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> If it's floating, it's got to be floating for a reason. That reason has to be that it's smaller in volume than it 'should be'. Thence unbalanced lift/density of air at float = the 'extra' pressure
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Add the balloon volume in, and I think you're there.
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[19:27] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: tow balloons?
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> As in made from fibre tow?
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Typos make things more interesting!
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> I thought you were talking about reinforcing.
[19:28] <Zuph> heh
[19:28] <Zuph> Nope
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[21:05] <fsphil> I'm trying to transmit a simple sine wave with the 817, but the receiver is showing three other identical waves very close by -- what would be causing that? doesn't seem to be overmodulation, reducing the volume isn't helping
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> fldigi?
[21:10] <fsphil> my own evil creation -- but fldigi is doing the same thing
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> remeber that fldigi waterfall is logarithmic amplitude
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> there are going to be some harmonics
[21:14] <fsphil> if I play back the .wav directly, it's a fairly clean signal
[21:14] <Colin-G8TMV> fsphil: You mean a simple sine wave as in an RF carrier? or a modulated signal composed of an audio sine wave
[21:14] <fsphil> just a sine wave, 1500hz
[21:15] <Colin-G8TMV> No, thats not *just* a sine wave - if it's 1500Hz then it's either ultra low frequency or it's the modulation
[21:16] <Colin-G8TMV> so which mode is the rig in (what type of modulation)
[21:16] <fsphil> the wav file has a sine wave of 1500hz, the rig is transmitting in usb on 70cm
[21:16] <fsphil> so yea the signal is actually 434.076500 :)
[21:17] <Colin-G8TMV> ok, so you have a sideband of 1500Hz modulation - there is probably a vestigial LSB present too and you might also see the carrier
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[21:17] <Colin-G8TMV> then there will be harmonics of the modulation frequency
[21:18] <Colin-G8TMV> the ssb filter in the 817 is 2.8KHz wide so you might see the multiple at 3KHz
[21:19] <fsphil> these others are at 100hz spacing
[21:20] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm.. birdies from the CPU maybe or maybe from the synth - how are you seeing/hearing them
[21:20] <fsphil> lemme take a screenshot
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[21:23] <fsphil> https://www.sanslogic.co.uk/harmonics.png
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[21:25] <Colin-G8TMV> very odd, might be something from the PC - is it a laptop?
[21:26] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[21:26] <fsphil> nope, big ol' desktop -- it's using a usb sound card
[21:26] <NigeyS> hi mattltm
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> Also - alter stuff.
[21:26] <Colin-G8TMV> fsphil: might be a twice mains frequency hum then
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> Change the tuning of the radio, the frequency of the audio transmission
[21:27] <Colin-G8TMV> good idea, see if they are always 100Hz
[21:27] <fsphil> mmm yea
[21:27] <fsphil> okie
[21:27] <mattltm> Has anyone used a JeeNode for a HAB?
[21:28] <LazyLeopard> What's the wav file's sample rate?
[21:28] <fsphil> 48000
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[21:33] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... 32 samples per cycle.
[21:34] <LazyLeopard> ...but the 100Hz gaps don't match well with other nice round numbers, apart from 1600Hz
[21:34] <fsphil> it is very odd
[21:35] <fsphil> will try another rate
[21:35] <LazyLeopard> ...so I don't _think_ it's some weird sampling-related artefact...
[21:35] <Colin-G8TMV> maybe something odd in the soundcards USB interface
[21:35] <LazyLeopard> ...or another frequency?
[21:38] Action: Colin-G8TMV looks at LazyLeopard "Don't you have an exam to revise for?" ;)
[21:39] Action: LazyLeopard is brain-fried.
[21:40] <Colin-G8TMV> know the feeling
[21:40] <LazyLeopard> ...and there's only so much revision one can do. ;)
[21:41] <Colin-G8TMV> yeah, I wish the same could be said for con-running, Mike and I are going slowly mad with last minute stuff
[21:41] <NigeyS> mattltm, not that i know of .. looks kinda cool though
[21:44] <mattltm> NigeyS: I have a few and was thinking about truing it.
[21:45] <mattltm> *trying
[21:45] <NigeyS> go for it :D dunno what the radio module will perform like mind
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[21:48] <mattltm> I think its a Hopr RF module
[21:55] <mattltm> http://jeelabs.com/products/heading-board
[21:55] <mattltm> looks like fun
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[21:59] <mattltm> Whats the max output on 434? 10mw?
[22:00] <NigeyS> think so yup
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[22:02] <mattltm> You think this would work?
[22:02] <mattltm> http://www.hoperf.com/upfile/RFM42B_43B.pdf
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[22:06] <mattltm> good to-40 deg C
[22:06] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54882AA0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:06] <mattltm> Hi Lunar
[22:07] <mattltm> On board temp sensor too.
[22:08] <mattltm> I wonder if it will work with the JeeNode
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[22:13] <mattltm> What do most people use for the flight comp?
[22:14] <jgrahamc> I'm using an Arduino, others seem to use AVR.
[22:14] <fsphil> some form of AVR chip I think
[22:15] <eroomde> quietfly flying the ARM flag over here in the corner
[22:15] <mattltm> http://jeelabs.com/products/jeesmd
[22:15] <eroomde> davidjc: I have answered your email
[22:15] <mattltm> Would that work?
[22:15] <eroomde> mattltm: no obvious reason why not
[22:16] <eroomde> it seems to just break out the io of an atmega chip
[22:16] <eroomde> but it's just a chip on a pcb - none of the peripheral hardware to make it useful
[22:16] <eroomde> an advantage of the arduino is that you can start hacking straight away on a known-to-work hardware setup
[22:17] <jgrahamc> eroomde: thanks for the parachute advice.
[22:17] <mattltm> I have a few of these and was thinking about playing with them..
[22:17] <mattltm> http://jeelabs.com/products/jeenode
[22:17] <eroomde> oh forgive me, that's the pcb-only variant
[22:18] <eroomde> jgrahamc: no problem. We should probably get some kind of loyalty card for aerocon
[22:18] <jgrahamc> :-)
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> eroomde is an lpc fan
[22:19] <fsphil> I think my harmonics are in the receivers sound card
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> but he uses keil compiler?
[22:19] Action: Laurenceb_ cannot afford such stuff
[22:20] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: gcc
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> ah fair enough
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> i tried to setup gcc for lpc and gave up after several days tearing my hair out
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> stm32 was way easier
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[22:21] <eroomde> codesourcery do one that can be made to work if you place no value on your time
[22:21] <eroomde> the problem is that no one seems to care enough to document a stable toolchain
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah, as i found out the hard way
[22:22] <eroomde> all the components of the toolcahin, from linux kernel to gcc to gdb to wiggler are all asynchronously ratcheting versions upwards, and always breaking each other
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> stm8 is easish to setup
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:22] <eroomde> if you do care enough, you tend to buy a commercial toolchain
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> i have ST9 and STVD running in wine
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> its gcc based
[22:23] <eroomde> the avr crowd have got their act together much more
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> - stm8 is roughly a cross between xmega and msp430
[22:23] <eroomde> gcc-avr, avrdude, win-avr and the eclipse-avr plugin or all really very good indeed
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[22:24] <Laurenceb_> im going to be developing some msp430 hardware soon, so ill see how it goes
[22:24] <eroomde> lots of people say lovely things about those devices
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> im using it for tha 16 bit adc
[22:24] <eroomde> have never used one myself but they seem to be the business if you want low power and 16bit
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> on a tiny qfn
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[22:25] <eroomde> right, i've spent much too long on a computer today, I shall call it quits
[22:25] <eroomde> g'night
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> cya
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi Laurenceb_
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> and all the others
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:35] <NigeyS> hi lunar
[22:35] <NigeyS> fsphil, that antenna on the lassen is definately DOA :(
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS I have got an e-mail on the NY university balloon project reports
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> where to find them
[22:36] <NigeyS> oh, i bet they make interesting reading
[22:37] <fsphil> just the antenna NigeyS?
[22:37] <NigeyS> yup, took it off and still get the exact same results, 2 sats, no fix etc etc
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:37] <fsphil> aah, yep -- could be a break in the coax
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> guess where those reports can be found
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> hint: that NYU project is also known as project mogul
[22:38] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander, haha seriously ?
[22:39] <NigeyS> fsphil, going to send it back to Diamond Point i think
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> and the reports are appendices of the USAF Roswell Report!
[22:40] <NigeyS> crazy stuff!
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> but if you skip all the UFO parts
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> the report is a balloon tech vault/library/goldmine
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> maybe interesting for jcoxon
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> as the first Mogul flights were long trains of neoprene balloons designed to float at 50000 ft
[22:45] <NigeyS> sounds interesting, let him know when you see him :)
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> the cover image is a little funny too
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> it has a cowboy on a horse in the night and a cactus
[22:46] <NigeyS> lol
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> and in the background is a shooting star
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> and in that computer/sci-fi font they write
[22:46] <fsphil> sounds like something from the 70s
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> "THE ROSWELL REPORT: Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert"
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> it's from 1995
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> and I got the explaination why the debris field at the ranch was so big
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> as the first Mogul balloon trains had been about half the height of the Eiffel tower
[22:48] <NigeyS> just a touch on the large side then
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> of course the UFO proponents are like: "NOO, Mogul 4 overshot the ranch and Moore manipulated the ascent and descent rates!"
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[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> by the way, Germany played a role in this project
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> or at least the island of Helgoland
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> during Mogul 2, which flew from Pennsylvania, the british exploded a huge charge there
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> to test if Mogul 2 would record the explosion above the US
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[23:45] <earthshine> evening
[23:45] <NigeyS> evening earthshine
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[23:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman <billings.stephen75@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch 2"
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes google is so random.
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> I was doing some sums.
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=TzO&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=2000J%2FKg%2FK+*100g+K+%2F8&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> And out pops 'design of a cryogenic grinding system for spices'
[23:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin Sweeney <martin.sweeney@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch 2"
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 1 2011