highaltitude.log.20110130

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[00:03] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_Lander there is a commandable cutdown
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah, nice
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[03:20] <Dan-K2VOL> Evening
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[06:33] <Darkside> ping juxta|console
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[06:43] <juxta|console> hey Darkside
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[06:44] <Darkside> hey
[06:45] <Darkside> the VHF MobSenDat is currently up on a powerline
[06:45] <Darkside> P:P
[06:45] <Darkside> inside a rocket body
[06:46] <Darkside> they are planningon getting it down in a few days, and then it will get shipped back to joel
[06:47] <Darkside> apparently it had gps lock all the way up
[06:48] <juxta|console> awesome :)
[06:49] <juxta|console> what altitude did it reach?
[06:51] <Gnea> awww
[06:51] <Darkside> >500m i think
[06:51] <Darkside> joel has pics, but hasnt sent them to me yet
[06:51] <Darkside> i guess he will do thatwhenhe gets back to adelaide
[06:52] <juxta|console> alrighty
[06:52] <juxta|console> any idea on how many G's it pulled?
[06:52] <Darkside> nope
[06:52] <Darkside> hows the horus14 writeup going? :P
[06:53] <juxta|console> oh yeah will put that up soon
[06:53] <juxta|console> are you back in town now?
[06:53] <Darkside> cool
[06:54] <Darkside> in a car on the way]
[06:54] <Darkside> passed pt wakefield 10 min ago
[06:54] <juxta|console> oh, hehe
[06:55] <juxta|console> my sis is heading back up that way now
[06:56] <Darkside> mm
[06:56] <Darkside> i reckon the vhf module would be good to fly more
[06:56] <Darkside> it worked incredibly well
[07:00] <juxta|console> yeah
[07:00] <juxta|console> esp with the lack of drift
[07:00] <Darkside> yup
[07:00] <Darkside> $30 too
[07:00] <Darkside> just replace the NTX2 with one, and it'll work
[07:01] <Darkside> only change is you'll need to wire the power pin straight to the battery
[07:02] <Darkside> i think the TX1h doesnt drift (as much) because it has an actual 151.3MHz crystal in it
[07:03] <Darkside> instead of an ~80MHz crystal and a multilier
[07:03] <juxta|console> ahh
[07:03] <juxta|console> thats a good point
[07:03] <juxta|console> how much voltage does it need again?
[07:03] <Darkside> >3.8
[07:04] <juxta|console> oh nice
[07:04] <juxta|console> that works well
[07:04] <Darkside> other than that its the same
[07:04] <juxta|console> yeah
[07:04] <juxta|console> I imagine we can probably even get away without groundn radials given that we have 100mW
[07:04] <Darkside> also means we3 could do a 70cm repeater
[07:04] <Darkside> instead of crossband
[07:04] <juxta|console> radiosondes only fly 50mW and they don't have any ground radials
[07:05] <juxta|console> just a (poorly matched I imagine) bit of wire
[07:05] <Darkside> yeah
[07:05] <Darkside> this sounds good :)
[07:05] <juxta|console> 70cm repeater would still be tricky though
[07:05] <Darkside> oh, diplexer
[07:05] <Darkside> hmm
[07:06] <Darkside> i wonder how much 2mTX affects 151.3MHz RX
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[07:08] <mattltm> Mornin'
[07:08] <Darkside> also what happene3d to the hackaday post in the end?
[07:09] <Darkside> it never went up
[07:11] <juxta|console> yeah, not sure there, they didnt get back to me :(
[07:11] <Darkside> aww
[07:12] <Darkside> reddit post didntgo off ei
[07:12] <Darkside> argh
[07:12] <Darkside> i saw your reddit post and upboated
[07:12] <Darkside> but it hasnt gone far
[07:13] <Darkside> the video has got a lot of coverage tho
[07:13] <juxta|console> yeah
[07:13] <juxta|console> did Jon post to slashdot in the end?
[07:14] <Darkside> not sure
[07:14] <Darkside> i guess not...
[07:14] <Darkside> still, >2000 views is pretty good
[07:14] <Darkside> and its a good advertisement to internode :)
[07:15] <Darkside> showing out ability to launch small furry things into near-space
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[08:19] <Elwell> good luck with launch today peeps
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[08:44] <jcoxon> Morning
[08:45] <mattltm> Hey :)
[08:45] <jcoxon> Payload on, got lock, solar panel working
[08:45] <mattltm> All god :)
[08:46] <mattltm> *good
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[08:51] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: where are you?
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[08:52] <jcoxon> Just arrived, in the moller car park
[08:52] <eroomde> jcoxon: seconded
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[08:52] <eroomde> jcoxon: are you launching under notam?
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[08:54] <jcoxon_> hey
[08:55] <jcoxon> Umm we don't need to
[08:56] <SpeedEvil> good luck!
[08:56] <eroomde> do you want to?
[08:57] <jcoxon> It might be safer just to,Adam is here
[08:57] <eroomde> fine
[08:57] <eroomde> I will try and get over in a jiffe
[08:58] <eroomde> my friend seems to want to stay in bed all morning, so will leave him to it
[08:58] <jcoxon> Okay
[08:58] <jcoxon> Cool
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[08:58] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: how long til launch?
[08:58] <Colin-G8TMV> roughly?
[09:00] <jcoxon> Reckon 1hour Max
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[09:00] <jcoxon> Just need to fill once Steve arrives
[09:01] <Colin-G8TMV> I couldn't get anyone interested in using Flossie - the prime candidates are away this weekend it seems
[09:02] <jcoxon_> thats okay
[09:02] <jcoxon_> the dl-fldigi network will help
[09:02] <Colin-G8TMV> what dial freq do you have for the payload?
[09:02] <jcoxon_> 434.07327
[09:03] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm.. can't hear it here yet
[09:03] <jcoxon_> its in my car
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[09:04] <Colin-G8TMV> Isn't a car a bit big for a payload container ;)
[09:05] <jcoxon_> hehe
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[09:08] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - at launch site - payload working, waiting for Helium [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/31639878240305152]
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[09:15] <NigelMoby> Mornin all
[09:16] <NigelMoby> Tooo early ... must get coffee
[09:17] <SpeedEvil> Morning NigelMoby
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[09:18] <NigelMoby> Hey speed
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:19] <futfutfut> Hi is there an updated estimated launch time this morning?
[09:19] <NigelMoby> If this launch dont head west I'm going to screen LOL
[09:20] <NigelMoby> Prolly bout 10am
[09:20] <NigelMoby> Maybe a bit before
[09:20] <futfutfut> NigelMoby: Thanks. Ill get setup for then :)
[09:21] <futfutfut> Ok I best get setting up now then ;)
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[09:22] <griffonbot> @adamgreig: Getting ready to launch PicoAtlas 2 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/adamgreig/status/31643360271798273]
[09:22] <NigelMoby> Me too but first... coffee!!
[09:23] <mattltm> So... Are there still 2 launches today?
[09:25] <LazyLeopard> mattltm: I don't think so. Payload for the second wasn't ready yesterday evening.
[09:25] <Colin-G8TMV> Morning Rick
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[09:27] <mattltm> Thanks Lazy :) That makes things easier.
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[09:29] <griffonbot> @adamgreig: PicoAtlas 2 #ukhas http://t.co/X4jkorp [http://twitter.com/adamgreig/status/31645128942682112]
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[09:30] <NigeyS> mm coffee and a cream egg ... hows that for breakfast :|
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[09:32] <SpeedEvil> A balanced meal.
[09:32] <NigeyS> hehe
[09:32] <NigeyS> anyone been watching the tennis final ?
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> Though you should really add some bacon, as you're low on protein and salt.
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[09:32] <NigeyS> mm bacon .. i think i have some left.. bacon sandwich !!!!
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[09:33] <NigeyS> bloody eck .. 4-4 in the tennis
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[09:34] <NigeyS> hmm i think jame's temp2 is a bit wrong
[09:35] <g7leu> temp2 is battery voltage? looks like it matches the table on http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasii
[09:36] <NigeyS> ah yes, thanks for that! makes more sense
[09:36] <g7leu> :)
[09:37] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm... it says mode 0 for 500 loops -how long is that in actual time?
[09:37] <NigeyS> umm.. good uestion i dont remember the time delay between loops
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Isn't is ~16s?
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> So a couple of hours
[09:38] <NigeyS> that seems to ring a bell
[09:39] <NigeyS> ach andy murray needs a good slap!
[09:39] <SpeedEvil> 80 char/5
[09:39] Action: SpeedEvil only watches ladies tennis - and well - it's not for the tennis.
[09:39] <NigeyS> hahaha i wonder why :P ;)
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[09:41] <NigeyS> 39 shot rally.. sod that !
[09:42] <jcoxon_> preparing to launch
[09:42] <NigeyS> hey J ! best of luck :)
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon_: Good luck!
[09:42] <Colin-G8TMV> yes, Good Luck
[09:43] <NigeyS> ping fsphil get out of bed!
[09:43] <futfutfut> Good luck
[09:46] <fsphil> meeeh :p
[09:46] <NigeyS> haha morning phil :P
[09:47] <griffonbot> @adamgreig: PicoAtlas 2 away #ukhas [http://twitter.com/adamgreig/status/31649626339672066]
[09:47] <fsphil> oooh good timing
[09:47] <NigeyS> yush just in time mr
[09:47] <Colin-G8TMV> looks like it's up
[09:48] <NigeyS> yups, .5Ms
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[09:48] <futfutfut> Wow turned my my rig and instantly heard it without having to retune. 4.0761
[09:48] <NigeyS> :o
[09:49] <NigeyS> im concidering strapping a small whip to my cat and sending him on the roof lol
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[09:50] <fsphil> catenna
[09:50] <NigeyS> oo TM !!
[09:50] <Colin-G8TMV> right, I'm tracking and uploading
[09:50] <fsphil> a bit hot outside
[09:51] <g7leu> still nothing heard in burwell (434.073MHz USB)
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[09:51] <NigeyS> hehe 1021 degrees, jumpp in the fridge :P
[09:51] <earthshine> morning
[09:51] <NigeyS> morning earthshine !
[09:51] <futfutfut> Back
[09:51] <NigeyS> wb futfutfut
[09:52] <fsphil> she's moving pretty quick
[09:53] <NigeyS> yups, and heading south west to, might actually get to hear this 1 !
[09:53] <fsphil> definitely
[09:53] <futfutfut> does anyone know where i can download the laster software from?
[09:53] <Colin-G8TMV> NigeyS: Temp 2 is really batt volts
[09:53] <futfutfut> got a great signal here
[09:53] <futfutfut> Melbourn
[09:53] <NigeyS> Colin-G8TMV yups
[09:53] <NigeyS> futfutfut, let me grab a link for you
[09:54] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[09:54] <futfutfut> thanks
[09:54] <NigeyS> https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/downloads
[09:54] <LazyLeopard> Getting signal with dial at 434.074.86
[09:54] <NigeyS> whos got the 19ele yagi?! i bet that things humungous :|
[09:55] <mattltm> I'm on a home brew 14 ele :) Nothing yet though.
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[09:55] <NigeyS> wb J
[09:56] <fsphil> I've got nothing on my rubber duck antenna :)
[09:56] <NigeyS> lol
[09:56] <NigeyS> i better go get the broom handle.. fun fun
[09:57] <NigeyS> was hoping the roofers wouldve had the scaffold up by now, wouldve been good attatched to that
[09:57] <Colin-G8TMV> shift has got a bit wider - 430 seems to work best atm
[09:57] <fsphil> mmmm autoshift
[09:58] <NigeyS> 12 mins of flight used 4mah of power .. not bad at all
[09:59] <g7leu> strong signal and decoding fine in burwell now that i've tuned upwards a bit
[10:01] <fsphil> nice little bump in the asecnet
[10:01] <fsphil> ascent
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[10:01] <fsphil> hopefully the solar panel is in full sunlight now
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's a 4-sided panel - it will be in the sun under half the time
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> A 16 bit voltage might be interesting
[10:02] <fsphil> or on the top
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> you might be able to see charge
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> oh - true
[10:02] <Colin-G8TMV> I'm getting a nice signal here too, apart from some broadband QRM that keeps wiping bits out
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> Nice - 3-4 recievers
[10:03] <Upu> bit out of range for me at the moment
[10:03] <fsphil> I see that a lot here too Colin-G8TMV
[10:03] <Upu> but as soon as its got some altitiude I'll give it a shot
[10:03] <Upu> afk shopping in the mean time
[10:03] <fsphil> actually it's one of the nice things about launching in the middle of nowhere :) very little qrm!
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[10:05] <futfutfut> hi do i run Dl-fldigi in HAB mode? i have a manually tuned rig
[10:05] <jcoxon> yup
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - I see no prediction line.
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Is there a reason for this - as float would confuse - or is it broken.
[10:07] <jcoxon> no prediction this time
[10:07] <Colin-G8TMV> Right, I've switched from my Rubber Duck to my Moxon - much better
[10:08] <fsphil> accelerating, 1.3m/s now
[10:08] <NigeyS> james did you use all 4 balloons ?
[10:08] <jcoxon> yes
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[10:09] <NigeyS> 1.6Ms .. great stuff
[10:09] <fsphil> which value is the voltage?
[10:09] <NigeyS> temp2
[10:09] <fsphil> nice, it's went up
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> Still dawdling.
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:10] <NigeyS> lol
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> 10mph?
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Were the balloons filled? or part-empty?
[10:11] <jcoxon> about 50%
[10:12] <NigeyS> is it really 0degrees is cambridge this morning ?
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> So should fill at ~5km?
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[10:13] g3vzv (56a9b2db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.169.178.219) joined #highaltitude.
[10:14] <fsphil> woo the sun just came out here
[10:14] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: RT @adamgreig: PicoAtlas 2 away #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/31656514930348032]
[10:14] <NigeyS> its still gonna be bloody cold though phil lol :p
[10:15] <fsphil> I know, and I've the mutt to walk
[10:15] <NigeyS> eek, have fun ;)
[10:15] Action: SpeedEvil imagines dog tied to balloon floating along on lead.
[10:15] <NigeyS> pmsl
[10:15] <NigeyS> tempted to try that with my hamster
[10:16] <g3vzv> morning all - whats the frequency?
[10:16] <jcoxon> 434074890
[10:16] <Colin-G8TMV> 434.0754
[10:16] <futfutfut> I seem to have 2 program line very close to each other with the sound red lines much further apart
[10:17] <futfutfut> how do i make the program red lines wider apart?
[10:17] <jcoxon> select pico in the left drop down box
[10:17] <NigeyS> did you select the payload and hit autoconfigure? it should adjust them
[10:18] <futfutfut> thanks forgot to press autoconfigure ;)
[10:18] <NigeyS> you added a pressure sensor james or is that something else? :|
[10:19] <jcoxon> oh thats from another flight
[10:19] <jcoxon> just don't know how to change it
[10:19] <futfutfut> does a green line of data next to the black box mean successful upload to the site?
[10:19] <NigeyS> ahh oki
[10:19] <NigeyS> green is good, red is bad ;)
[10:19] <futfutfut> Cool
[10:19] <Colin-G8TMV> yeah, how about moving the autoconfigure box next to the box with the payload name
[10:19] <futfutfut> first successful reception from my house :)
[10:20] <g3vzv> dooh - radio was in FM mode!
[10:20] <fsphil> oops
[10:20] <NigeyS> lol
[10:20] <NigeyS> cmon pico cross the m4 already! :P
[10:20] <fsphil> though I think it would be easy to have it work in FM mode
[10:20] <fsphil> it just wouldn't be as good
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[10:22] <fsphil> lovely smooth ascent now
[10:23] <fsphil> what was pico-1's max altitude?
[10:23] <fsphil> ah, 2.4jm
[10:23] <fsphil> km
[10:23] <Colin-G8TMV> Is it me or is the frequency drifting downwards very slowly?
[10:24] <fsphil> that'll be the payload cooling down
[10:24] <fsphil> the transmitter module is very sensitive to temperature
[10:25] <NigeyS> can hear it ever so slightly here cant decode yet :(
[10:25] <fsphil> good sign!
[10:25] <g4tnx> Can just hear rtty now in grimsby, no decodes yet
[10:27] <jcoxon> okay in 20 strings we'll go into day mode
[10:27] <jcoxon> they'll be gaps of 20 seconds when the radio shutsdown
[10:28] <g7leu> will be interesting to see whether the preamble that was added will help dl-fldig lock onto the signal as the tx fires up
[10:28] <g7leu> i had problems with that on last launch
[10:28] <fsphil> it seems to be moving more westerly than the prediction last night
[10:30] <Colin-G8TMV> it's moving very slowly
[10:30] <NigeyS> its teasing me!
[10:31] <fsphil> are you decoding anything NigeyS?
[10:32] <NigeyS> nope can just about hear it though
[10:32] <fsphil> approaching PicoAtlas-1 max altitude
[10:32] <fsphil> you'll probably get little fragments of decodes, like a bunch of numbers
[10:32] <Colin-G8TMV> an off by one error ;)
[10:33] <NigeyS> )$Ù" C a£20íDˆÌ"@
[10:33] <NigeyS> yup
[10:33] <NigeyS> lol
[10:33] <jcoxon> phew - it cam back
[10:33] <jcoxon> came*
[10:33] <fsphil> lol
[10:33] <fsphil> day mode now?
[10:33] <Colin-G8TMV> with a big shift
[10:33] <futfutfut> hi has the signal just gone?
[10:33] <futfutfut> its back
[10:33] <jcoxon> futfutfut, its gone into power save mode
[10:34] <fsphil> the voltage seems excellent
[10:34] <futfutfut> i see cool
[10:34] <Colin-G8TMV> right - I have to go out - back in about an hour - I'll leave the kit running
[10:35] <futfutfut> signal seems very stable between power saving mode :)
[10:35] <g7leu> the UUUU seems to be doing the job :)
[10:35] <fsphil> excellent
[10:36] <g7leu> how many Us does it send? i see 4 each time
[10:36] <M0DTS_Rob> 2.5km..super, just another 3 to go before i hear it... ;-)
[10:37] <jcoxon> 4
[10:37] <M0DTS_Rob> or 4
[10:37] <jcoxon> oh i mean 4 UUUU
[10:37] <M0DTS_Rob> ha
[10:38] <fsphil> I might hear it if it floats a good distance
[10:38] <g7leu> jcoxon: ok, ta. consistently getting all 4 Us. on last launch it lost first 3 or 4 chars once it had switched into this mode
[10:38] <fsphil> U is a better character than $?
[10:39] <fsphil> 00100100 vs 01010101 .. actually I see why they picked $ too
[10:41] <NigeyS> coffee! and kill the cat for knocking the antennae over!
[10:41] <mattltm> Nice to see the bat voltage going up :)
[10:43] <dave_fev> RYRY would be better than UUUU. RY has more Mark-Space changes so is a better training signal.
[10:43] <M0DTS_Rob> I think the anomoly between 500 and 1000 on the pico altitude plot must be something to do with a temperature inversion... i'm hearing the cambridge repeater on 145.750 weakly at the moment!
[10:43] <g3vzv> I am seeing the signal even during the "key up" pauses!
[10:43] <dave_fev> RY is 01010 10101 UU is 11100 11100
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[10:44] <jcoxon> dave_fev, ascii -8 though
[10:44] <g3vzv> or maybe not:(
[10:44] <jcoxon> not baudot
[10:44] <dave_fev> Ho-Hum
[10:45] <futfutfut> Balloon currently behind some houses, but for some reason I can still pick it up is i point the Yagi 90 degrees away from it out the window :)
[10:46] <Elwell> any chance someone can save the audio stream (or at least a chunk of it) so I can test fl-digi later at the shack?
[10:48] <Elwell> powersave mode -- another > vs >= snafu?
[10:49] <futfutfut> Elwell: if you can tell me how to do it via dl-fldigi i can do it for you. I just don't know how to drive the software
[10:49] <Elwell> no idea :-)
[10:49] <Elwell> suspect its better done with 'something else'
[10:51] <futfutfut> i'd rather not stop receivin if that's ok, as this is the first successful decoding i've done after about 5 attempts
[10:52] <M0DTS_Rob> futfutfut: file:audio:Rx Capture
[10:52] <M0DTS_Rob> then again to stop it
[10:52] <futfutfut> capturing
[10:53] <futfutfut> i take it that its not possible to listen to the signal through the softwar yet?
[10:53] <M0DTS_Rob> saying that, it did not work with me..ha
[10:53] <futfutfut> Elwell: how long do you need the sample?
[10:54] <g7leu> i'm capturing some audio too. if on a mac, the linein app will pass the audio through from line-in to line-out. dunno about on windross
[10:54] davidjc (57c2bc56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.188.86) joined #highaltitude.
[10:54] <g7leu> (or linux)
[10:54] <M0DTS_Rob> Play the capture file back afterwards to check, mine records nothing!
[10:55] <futfutfut> lol, i mainly use macs and linux, but for this i'm using windows :(
[10:55] <fsphil> very odd
[10:55] <fsphil> capturing works well here, on linux
[10:55] <fsphil> excellent altitude
[10:56] <g7leu> the audio capture file (dl-fldigi on a mac) is increasing in size. i'l check it before i send it to you though
[10:56] <g7leu> ElWell: Email address to send it to (though i'll leave it capturing for a while longer)
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[10:58] <futfutfut> well it seems like the capture works on windows and you can decode at the same time :)
[10:58] <futfutfut> Elwell: i'll also leave it capturing for a while longer
[10:59] <futfutfut> Elwell: shall i upload it somewhere for you to download it from rather than email a large file>
[10:59] <M0DTS_Rob> Wow i'm hearing pico already!
[10:59] <Elwell> either - andrew.<nick>@gmail.com or dropbox
[10:59] <g7leu> futfutfut: out of interest... what s/n are you getting? i'm seeing about 8dB. curious just to see whether our two files will be much different for elwell
[11:01] <GW8RAK> Wasn't expecting to get within range up here, so it's a bit of a rush to get ready. What is the current frequency please?
[11:02] <g7leu> 434.0757MHz here
[11:02] <LazyLeopard> 434074700
[11:02] <LazyLeopard> ...on the dial.
[11:02] <g7leu> no idea how accurate that is though. using an ar8600 this time
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[11:03] <GW8RAK> Thank you. It's just coming over the horizon here
[11:04] <LazyLeopard> Wonder how many receivers we'll get in one fix?
[11:04] <M0DTS_Rob> definately some tropo enhancement for me, i'm 35km north of LOS and it's weak but steady signal.
[11:04] <LazyLeopard> Certainly seen 6 at least...
[11:05] <LazyLeopard> M0DTS_Rob: Yeah, I picked it up a while before the blue circle got to me too.
[11:05] <GW8RAK> M0DTS_Rob that is often quite common. I usually hear signals as they come over the horizon, but then lose them until they are over 15km.
[11:05] <GW8RAK> This flight will be quite difficult
[11:06] <GW8RAK> wrong, different
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[11:07] <M0DTS_Rob> ok, normally the LOS has to come well past me as i have 1deg elevation to overcome the NY Moors which are very close!
[11:08] <GW8RAK> Heard a bit of a signal as it came over the horizon, but very quiet now
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[11:10] <g3vzv> is wondering why he cannot see his station on the tracker screen and why his uploadied data is not appearing!
[11:11] <LazyLeopard> Are you online?
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[11:11] <futfutfut> Elwell: is you email address supposed to have the greater / lessthan signs in it?
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[11:11] <fsphil> g3vzv, are you using the latest version?
[11:12] <fsphil> hmm I better setup my radio
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[11:12] <LazyLeopard> G3VZV-3 : PICO,555,11:10:18,52.1878,-0.2954,4725,1,9,6;1;1009;10*CBD4
[11:12] <LazyLeopard> Lines are getting through...
[11:12] <g7leu> Elwell: There's a 10MB wav file (that definitely contains audio) at this URL.... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187698/20110130picoatlas2.wav
[11:13] <g3vzv> 3.20.29 HAB
[11:13] <KF7NIJ> oy! do you now if the current flight can be picked up by any online receivers?
[11:13] <NigeyS> still only getting it verrrrrrry faint here
[11:13] <jcoxon> KF7NIJ, you'll have to check!
[11:14] <fsphil> is it definitely the payload you're hearing NigeyS?
[11:14] <NigeyS> yeah, can see it on the waterfall, but such a thin line it wont decode, barely audible above the static
[11:14] <fsphil> is it disappearing every now and then?
[11:14] <KF7NIJ> jcoxon: thx, just wanted the check first. I'll let everyone know if I find anything.
[11:14] <NigeyS> yups
[11:14] <fsphil> sweet
[11:15] <NigeyS> antennas not in the best place mind, pointed outside a double glazed window..lol
[11:15] <mattltm> Partial decode for me. It's nearly over the hill to my North.
[11:15] <mattltm> $$PICO,558,11:±2:22,52.1886,-0.3133,4820,1,9,6;1;1014;11*94F4
[11:15] <jgrahamc> Standing on the roof of my house in Fulham with a 6 element Yagi I can hear picoatlas to the north but too much noise for any decoding.
[11:15] <NigeyS> hi jgrahamc
[11:15] <jgrahamc> Hi
[11:15] <NigeyS> ill take a wander out the garden in a few mins and hop on the shed roof
[11:16] <jgrahamc> I had LOS from the flat roof to the balloon's current position. Enough transmission to break the squelch and hear a few warbles, but that's it.
[11:16] <LazyLeopard> g3vzv: I can see stations G3VZV-3 and G3VZV-FCD on the tracker, and lines from G3VZV-3 in the raw data..
[11:17] <futfutfut> is there a page explaining the fields of the data?
[11:17] <futfutfut> i take it that for each payload the number mean slightly different things? Other than position
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[11:17] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon 5km alt [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/31672355067531264]
[11:17] <mattltm> Uhuh... My first line..
[11:17] <mattltm> $$PICO,564,11:16:30,52.1908,-0.3510,5049,1,9,6;1;1011;6*6BD5
[11:18] <jcoxon> futfutfut, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasii#info
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[11:20] <g3vzv> lazyleopard -thanks, I must have done some setting wrong somehow..the two RX systems are using separate ADSL lines so should not be interfering with each other
[11:21] <futfutfut> jcoxon: thanks, temperature seems to be increasing to 10 degrees c
[11:22] <mattltm> 9 stations rx now
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[11:28] <Elwell> g7leu: gotit ta.
[11:28] <G4FNS> better lower your mast dave
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> Seems quite nice and linear so far.
[11:30] <Upu> can hear it from here
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Can't be going that much higher though
[11:30] <futfutfut> Elwell: just uploading two wav files to dropbox for you
[11:30] <futfutfut> 1 2MB the other 14mb
[11:32] <g7leu> elwell: no problem. rx via dualband vertical (in theory 7.5dBd on 70cm) at about 5m agl
[11:32] <Elwell> ta. half of my wanting it is so I know wtf I should be listening out for :-)
[11:33] <futfutfut> Anyone know how to get the URL from dropbox? in firefox right clicking is overridden and you don't have the option to copy the link
[11:33] <Elwell> there's a pulldown
[11:33] <Upu> I'm almost getting full decodes on a whip inside my house
[11:33] <futfutfut> seen the pulldown, you can move, copy, download etc, but i can't see copy url
[11:34] <futfutfut> Very good signal today :_
[11:34] <futfutfut> :)
[11:34] <Elwell> 'copy public link' from the RHS arrow
[11:34] <futfutfut> RHS?
[11:34] <Elwell> assuming its in https://www.dropbox.com/home#/Public:::
[11:34] <KF7NIJ> by the way, I think I'm picking it up here: http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/vk4fsgw.php?receiver=775
[11:34] <NigeyS> wth its heading north now :|
[11:34] <futfutfut> oh i may need to copy it there first
[11:34] <Elwell> heh
[11:35] <KF7NIJ> though if I am picking it up, I'm only getting jumbles from it
[11:35] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - PicoAtlas launched 30/1/11 http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[11:35] <futfutfut> Elwell: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16803102/capture2.wav
[11:35] <fsphil> oh crap it's heading my way
[11:35] <fsphil> :)
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Ideal day for it.
[11:36] <Upu> its loud from here
[11:36] <futfutfut> Elwell: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16803102/capture.wav
[11:36] <Upu> just going outside and I'll put the yagi on
[11:36] <LazyLeopard> That's a shame, Phil. Time to get out of bed? ;) ;)
[11:36] <Upu> brb
[11:36] <mattltm> KF7NIJ: That RX is about 3k East of me
[11:36] <fsphil> I know, and it's not even 12 yet ;)
[11:37] <LazyLeopard> And on a Sundy, too!
[11:37] <fsphil> tsh!
[11:37] <jcoxon> 6km
[11:37] <NigeyS> 6 :o
[11:38] <LazyLeopard> ..and still rising.
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[11:38] <SpeedEvil> Can someone remind me if there is a 'download raw strings' for the tracker?
[11:38] <GW8RAK> Coming this way as well and SWMBO wants me to go out walking.
[11:39] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> ah - thanks!
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> how much were the balloons filled?
[11:40] <jcoxon> 50%
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[11:42] <NigeyS> anyone got a freq ?
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> it should level off around now then
[11:42] <LazyLeopard> 434075 on the dial
[11:42] <jcoxon> 434074890
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> in fact... it should have a while ago.. odd
[11:43] <NigeyS> cheers will take a wander outside now
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> must be a bit less than 50% the volume
[11:44] <Widget> what's the cloud height in northants atm? i'm not good at estimating what's out the window
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> 7.64Km=scal eheight, so 7.64*-ln(0.5)
[11:45] <fsphil> hmm, love the noise of static in the morning
[11:45] <griffonbot> @stratoriders: RT @jamescoxon: PicoAtlas 2 launch Sunday 10:00UTC #atlasballoon - 434.072Mhz RTTY - tracking very welcome - hopefully super-pressure th ... [http://twitter.com/stratoriders/status/31679416148951040]
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/tmp/volts.gif
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Battery voltage
[11:46] <jcoxon> 404
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> umm
[11:46] <NigeyS> jcoxon, go and blow the balloon south a bit pls? :p
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> temp
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif
[11:46] <GW8RAK> NigeyS, no, leave it where it is.
[11:46] <NigeyS> haha
[11:47] <fsphil> lol
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> X is string-number
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Solar panel does seem to be working?
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> At times - I mean at least
[11:48] <fsphil> I wonder what it would have been without the panel
[11:48] <NigeyS> jcoxon, if this works out well, i have a challenge for you :P
[11:48] <juxta_> jcoxon, what do the 3 fields represent? I'll change the labels on the tracker if you like?
[11:49] <g7leu> just for fun, i tried switching to the discone in the loft.... still decodes at -2 dB s/n, compared with 8dB s/n on the 7.5dB gain vertical about 2m higher outside
[11:49] <juxta_> also wow - this is quite high, I only just tuned in :)
[11:49] <NigeyS> temp2 is volts ...
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - the unsmoothed graphs - where the 'horizontal' bit on the graph is - show a massive 'noise' on the instantanous curve
[11:49] <KF7NIJ> uh oh, just realized I left my laptop charger at the office and it won't be open for another day. :( I'll have to switch compies
[11:49] <jcoxon> juxta_, tx mode, battery voltage and ext temp
[11:50] <juxta_> okay, I'll edit it now jcoxon
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> Which means that as it rotates, the voltage varies lots
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> (I guess)
[11:50] <fsphil> that would make sense
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[11:52] <fsphil> GW8RAK, you can turn of that giant magnet now
[11:53] <NigeyS> lol
[11:53] <jcoxon> guys we are going to get food very soon
[11:53] <fsphil> there's a signal here that I know isn't the payload, but it sounds like rtty now and then and is very distracting :)
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[11:55] <Upu> I'm getting lots of lines but I don't seem to be getting the new line at the start
[11:55] <jcoxon> squelch on?
[11:55] <Upu> I set it for Atlas thats correct ?
[11:55] <jcoxon> pico
[11:55] <Upu> pico
[11:55] <Upu> k brb
[11:55] <GW8RAK> fsphil wilco. Don't want it here until we are back from our walk.
[11:55] <fsphil> hehe
[11:55] <futfutfut> jcoxon: still receiving here from Melbourn (just)
[11:55] <juxta_> jcoxon: done - what unit is bat voltage in?
[11:56] <m1bxf> @futfutfut Hi Neil!
[11:56] <jcoxon> it needs converting
[11:56] <jcoxon> juxta_, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasii#info
[11:57] <juxta_> oh right
[11:57] <juxta_> do you want me to write something up to convert it?
[11:57] <g7leu> still got it in burwell too.... 8dB s/n on the outdoor and -2 dB s/n on the discone in the loft. this rtty lark seems to work :)
[11:57] <futfutfut> BTW what does the green circle mean on the tracker?
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> futfutfut: 5 degree elevaiton
[11:57] <Upu> should SQL be green or yellow ?
[11:57] <Widget> bah, don't think it's going to go over n'pton at all now :(
[11:57] <fsphil> SQL should be off :)
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif - new version - showing the 'noise' in the battery voltage
[11:58] <Upu> I can hear it loud and proud and getting some nice waterfall
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[11:58] <fsphil> click on the SQL button, it should turn grey
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> Green line is the instantaneous variation in the battery voltage.
[11:59] <futfutfut> SpeedEvil, so the colour is tell me which angle to aim at?
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> futfutfut: Not quite.
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> futfutfut: It's more 'am I likely to hear this'
[11:59] <fsphil> this payload is getting good coverage
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Inside the 5 degree horizon is quite reliable, generally.
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Inside the 0 degree horizon is 'possible, but in a good site only'
[12:00] <Upu> got one!
[12:01] <fsphil> has the frequency drifted any? my radio is on 434.074.890
[12:01] <futfutfut> SpeedEvil: I see, and i take it that size of the green circle changes with payload height. So being that i'm now on the edge of the circle, my aerial should be horizontal?
[12:01] <LazyLeopard> My dial's set to 434.075.20 at the moment.
[12:01] <g7leu> fsphil: i'm on 434.0765MHz
[12:02] <fsphil> ooh it's gone up
[12:02] <jcoxon> okay we are going for food
[12:03] <futfutfut> 434.0758
[12:03] <jcoxon> will be online there but not tracking
[12:03] <futfutfut> btw is there a better place to have the data lines within the dl-fldigi display
[12:03] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[12:03] <futfutfut> is middle better than low or high?
[12:04] <fsphil> 7km
[12:04] <fsphil> unreal
[12:04] <futfutfut> fantastic flight
[12:04] <fsphil> the middle is better
[12:04] <g7leu> futfutfut: i think it depends on the audio characteristics of your receiver. i find that mine works best if i centre it on 1500
[12:04] <futfutfut> fsphil: thanks
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> was there a hover here it entered the cloud base?
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> *where
[12:05] <fsphil> there was a brief descent at ~700 metres
[12:06] <futfutfut> i've got a Yaesu ft-790R, but have no idea of the audio sweet spot
[12:06] <futfutfut> i'll just have to try moving it around when i loose signal i guess
[12:06] <jonsowman> hi all
[12:06] <jonsowman> all going well?
[12:06] <LazyLeopard> futfutfut: Usual advice is to centre it with respect to your receiver's audi bandwidth, so around 1500 on mine.
[12:07] <jonsowman> 7.3km, nice
[12:07] <futfutfut> LazyLeopard: Thanks
[12:07] <g7leu> fff: what s/n do you see during decode at the moment? i've got 8dB (or -2dB on loft discone) so you should be able to keep it for a while yet with your yagi
[12:08] <futfutfut> varies between +-3
[12:08] <futfutfut> more at 2/3
[12:08] <g3vzv> arh frequency has gone wiggly does this mean hte payload is starting to swing about a bit - doppler effect etc
[12:09] <futfutfut> i've noticed the wiggle as well
[12:09] <fsphil> yea
[12:09] <fsphil> choppy air
[12:09] <NigeyS> -1.2Ms :|
[12:09] <fsphil> descending
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> At sentance 500, the battery voltage started dropping more (though noise on battery voltage remained high) and the ascent rate fell significantly.
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Cloud?
[12:10] <fsphil> possibly
[12:10] <NigeyS> or a balloon burst
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[12:11] <Laurenceb_> how many envelopes were there?
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> I think it's a burst now, certainly
[12:11] <NigeyS> 4
[12:12] <Laurenceb_> hmm one might have popped
[12:12] <NigeyS> yups, might level off at a lower alt
[12:12] <futfutfut> Is there an ideal balance between yellow noise and data?
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[12:12] <futfutfut> when i see all blue i barely see the data lines
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[12:13] <futfutfut> it's dropping
[12:14] <g7leu> i'm just outside the green circle now and the s/n is varying wildly between -4 and +9 dB
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> And we're back in the sun. (more sun than in the flight so far)
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[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Less balloons obscuring panel?
[12:15] <NigeyS> possibly
[12:15] <NigeyS> still dropping like a brick mind
[12:15] <futfutfut> i seem to have lost receiption here on the edge of the circle
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[12:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:15] <NigeyS> hey lunar
[12:16] <NigeyS> futfutfut, that would be about right :/
[12:16] <Lunar_Lander> cool james is aloft?
[12:16] <NigeyS> gone 4 food
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif - current voltage and charging current. (not really charging current, but something similar)
[12:17] <Lunar_Lander> why is spacenear showing a slow descent?
[12:18] <fsphil> are there many clouds up at 7km?
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: it's a 4 balloon thingy - one burst
[12:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
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[12:18] <Lunar_Lander> so the objective is to try to get a float?
[12:19] <NigeyS> yup
[12:19] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[12:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:19] <NigeyS> -1.2ms jcoxon
[12:19] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it'll oscillate around 7000
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif - voltage over time - and instantaneous variation in voltage which migh approximate charging current
[12:19] <Lunar_Lander> like floating balloons do
[12:20] <fsphil> the drop was too sudden
[12:20] <fsphil> I don't think it's going to float
[12:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes, that doesn't seem to be too good
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> If the ballons are unevenly inflated, then they will tend to force the most inflated one to pop first
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> And I imagine inflating evenly is going to be hard
[12:21] <Lunar_Lander> interesting the atmosphere seems to be quite warm up there today
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> i would have tested the burst pressure of the envelope
[12:21] <jonsowman> bbl
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[12:24] <jcoxon-> Still coming down?
[12:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[12:24] <Lunar_Lander> -1.2 m/s
[12:24] <jcoxon-> Damn
[12:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:25] <Lunar_Lander> if it shows that constant descent it shouldn't level off somewhere :(
[12:25] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[12:25] <Lunar_Lander> rate down to -0.9 m/s
[12:26] <fsphil> hmm
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> might be slightly changing
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> Did te signal get all wobbly atthe same time as the descent started?
[12:26] <fsphil> possibly just thicker air?
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> especially as the temperature is again climbing a bit
[12:26] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, yea
[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes and that fsphil
[12:27] <Lunar_Lander> -0.8
[12:28] <NigeyS> wonder if it levels off at 5k .. thatd be cool
[12:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:29] <fsphil> unlikely
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[12:30] <M0DTS_Rob> Anyone else see that lastes dl-fldigi download link broken?
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> and it starts to bend due west again
[12:31] <jcoxon-> Update please
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> 5829m
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> -1 m/s
[12:32] <jcoxon-> Hmmm maybe one burst
[12:32] <LazyLeopard> ...and signal somewhat less steady...
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[12:32] <fsphil> descent is matching the ascent pretty good -- nice mount fuji altitude plot
[12:32] <NigeyS> lol
[12:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:33] <fsphil> reports of the signal wobbling almost exactly as the descent started -- so a burst is likely
[12:33] <fsphil> the burst balloon is probably upsetting things
[12:34] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it'll land near Leamington Spa
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[12:34] <Lunar_Lander> Kenilworth
[12:34] <M0DTS_Rob> how many balloons used?
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> someone said 4
[12:35] <NigeyS> 4
[12:35] <jcoxon-> Safe landing approximately?
[12:35] <NigeyS> i reckon between stafford and stoke on trent
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah if you zoom in, it is not west
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> but more NW
[12:36] <NigeyS> head nw james :)
[12:36] <NigeyS> if you're really unluvky it could end up in birmingham
[12:36] <fsphil> Wolverhampton maybe
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but currently it heads along that Nuneaton-Tamworth line
[12:37] <fsphil> I think it'll start heading west again shortly
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> e too
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> *me
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[12:38] <jcoxon-> Not going to chase
[12:38] <jcoxon-> Too far
[12:39] <fsphil> -0.7 m/s
[12:39] <g7leu> how far out is it typical for people to be able to decode the signa;
[12:40] <g7leu> i'm currently at about 1.5x the green circle and seeing between -3 and +8 dB s/n
[12:40] <fsphil> half way between the green and blue circle is a fairly good indicator
[12:40] <g7leu> fsphil: ta
[12:40] <NigeyS> if it goes to stafford, its not far from chembrow
[12:41] <fsphil> though depends on the kind of setup and horizon
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[12:42] <g7leu> 7.5dBd white-stick vertical at about 5m agl into an ar8600. on the edge of a fen village though so not much in the way and not much noise on the band
[12:42] <fsphil> intra-balloon communications should be possible over silly distances :)
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC you can have a radio horizon of more than 1000 miles at 30 km
[12:44] <fsphil> http://radarproblems.com/calculators/horizon.htm
[12:44] <fsphil> 1237 km
[12:44] <jcoxon-> Altitude?
[12:44] <fsphil> 5186m
[12:44] <fsphil> descent is -1m/s again
[12:45] <fsphil> and is moving west
[12:45] <fsphil> slightly south too
[12:45] <fsphil> heading for Coventry
[12:46] <mattltm> Who is M6LEP?
[12:46] <g7leu> the discone in the loft is still getting about 80 or 90% of the characters!
[12:46] <jcoxon-> Turn the predictor on?
[12:47] <fsphil> might be a good idea too yea
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[12:47] <jcoxon-> I can't from here
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[12:48] <LazyLeopard> <- M6LEP
[12:48] <fsphil> hmm, I can't either
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> If the balloons are rigid, and partially filled, then they can only float when they are fully filled/
[12:48] <fsphil> ping juxta_
[12:48] <g7leu> freq gone a bit wobbly again?
[12:48] <juxta_> hey fsphil
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Which means at altitude - so it can't float on the way down?
[12:48] <fsphil> hullo juxta_ :) can you turn the predictor on the tracker?
[12:48] <juxta_> will turn it on now :)
[12:48] <fsphil> sweet
[12:48] <mattltm> LazyLeopard: Looks like you have a good rx setup. On a hill?
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil I think you can only level off at an altitude you are approaching from above by dropping ballast
[12:49] <fsphil> got some really weird QRM on 70cm now, sounds like someone going "oh-oh-ah" really quickly
[12:49] <LazyLeopard> mattltm: High-ish for the area. Fair view out north and west, trickier east and south.
[12:49] <NigeyS> lol
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[12:50] <juxta_> grabbing the wind data now fsphil
[12:50] <fsphil> np
[12:50] <fsphil> one the predictor think it's still going up though?
[12:50] <fsphil> one=won't
[12:50] <fsphil> descent has slowed to -0.6 m/s
[12:51] <mattltm> LazyLeopard: Oposite of me. Great view to the East and South but I'm on the side of a hill that blocks North and West :(
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[12:51] <juxta_> not if it's coming down it shouldnt
[12:53] <NigeyS> ext temp 6 deg :|
[12:54] <NigeyS> balloon covering the sensor maybe ?
[12:54] <g7leu> big yellow splodge all over the waterfall as a neighbour just locked his car :)
[12:54] <juxta_> prediction is showing up now, not sure that I believe it though
[12:54] <mattltm> Lol. that looks interesting :)
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[12:55] <fsphil> now that would be handy
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[12:55] <Lunar_Lander> G4FEV could fetch it :)
[12:56] <juxta_> updated the config
[12:56] <NigeyS> thats def a bit whacked :|
[12:56] <jgrahamc> Do we know the ground speed of the balloon at this point?
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[12:56] <mattltm> that loks better
[12:56] <fsphil> that's a lot more sensible
[12:56] <NigeyS> prolly no more than 10mph :|
[12:57] <Darkside> http://twitpic.com/3uq6lv
[12:57] <Darkside> man what a crap pic
[12:57] <Darkside> juxta_: ^
[12:58] <Darkside> the VHF payload is inside that rocket body...
[12:58] <juxta_> heh
[12:58] <juxta_> whoops
[12:58] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... a little north, and it'll land on the battlefield. ;)
[12:58] <NigeyS> ive had that happen with an el cheapo estes rocket years ago, landed right on top of a telegraph pole :(
[12:58] <fsphil> Darkside, was there an earth shattering kaboom?
[12:58] <Darkside> fsphil: no
[12:59] <Darkside> this was a G motor i believe
[12:59] <fsphil> ah, not so bad then :)
[12:59] <Darkside> G80-something
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[12:59] <jgrahamc> What's the predicted landing spot that's on the tracker based on?
[12:59] <fsphil> 4.5km
[12:59] <fsphil> descent speed and the wind patterns
[13:00] <juxta_> it's not working as it should be though
[13:00] <juxta_> I dont think descent mode is triggering
[13:00] <juxta_> let me look a bit more
[13:00] <jgrahamc> My rough calculation (without knowing the wind) is closer to Coventry.
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[13:04] <Elwell> sods law says near to the motorway and/or train line
[13:05] <jcoxon-> Elwell, oi! Xx
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[13:06] <NigeyS> lol or someones front garden!
[13:07] <Darkside> this is what happens when you launch in a evenly populated country :P
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[13:07] <Darkside> as i've said before: you should all move to australia and launch here
[13:07] <Darkside> :D
[13:07] <LazyLeopard> mattltm: I take it you're the station near Rochester?
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[13:10] <juxta_> this prediction will not be accurate at all
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[13:11] <juxta_> as the predictor is designed to calculate descent based on something falling and being slowed by air resistance
[13:11] <juxta_> ie in relation to density
[13:11] <mattltm> LazyLeopard: Yup - M6MDP
[13:11] <juxta_> not a payload with strange constant-ish descnt
[13:11] <Elwell> doeesn'
[13:11] <Darkside> and this is falling because the 'balloon' is now underfilled
[13:11] <Elwell> doesn
[13:11] <Darkside> heh
[13:11] <Elwell> ffs
[13:12] <Elwell> doesn't look like there's anything too nasty (military etc) in the way on aerial imagery
[13:12] <Darkside> oh yes, landing on a military base would be fun
[13:12] <Darkside> oh juxta_ , speaking of that
[13:12] <Darkside> i spoke to some people starting a ballooning group in perth
[13:12] <Elwell> rolls royce place at ansty but thats it
[13:13] <Darkside> CASA is considering forcing them to fly an ADS-B transponder
[13:13] <Darkside> they also have to have a cutdown system,e tc
[13:13] <Darkside> pretty much, they are trying to get them to fulfil all the requirements of the heavy balloon class, not the medium class, like we do
[13:13] <juxta_> we're light :)
[13:13] <Darkside> i told them to call bullshit on it, and read them the regulations
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[13:14] <Darkside> and i introduced them to spacenear.us and the #highaltitude community
[13:14] <Darkside> so hopefully it'll go well for them
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[13:15] <Darkside> also i've bought a 3-element collapsible yagi from bdale garbee
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[13:20] <LazyLeopard> Darkside: Perth WA?
[13:20] <Darkside> yep
[13:21] Action: LazyLeopard visits that side from time to time. ;)
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[13:26] <Lunar_Lander2> Darkside so CASA distinguishes several classes of HAB?
[13:26] <Darkside> yes
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander2> ah
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander2> such a thing does not exist in germany
[13:28] <fsphil> heading for a small lake
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[13:30] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders when we'll reach 100 on the channel
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[13:33] <LazyLeopard> Signal getting kinda weak here...
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[13:34] <g7leu> very weak here too, at just over 1.5 x green circle, but still decoding
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[13:35] <fsphil> heading directly south now
[13:36] <fsphil> well, bit of a wiggle there but generally south
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[13:39] <g7leu> think i'm losing the signal now. losing one or two characters per tx now
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[13:42] <LazyLeopard> I'm finding about one line in five comes through with enough stability to decode. The rest get garbled somehow...
[13:42] <fsphil> I wonder what the odds of it landing in Rugby are
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> is there a pressure sensor onboard?
[13:43] <fsphil> nah
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[13:43] <g7leu> with lots of tweaking i'm losing 1 or 2 characters per tx
[13:43] <fsphil> a little camera watching the balloons might be useful
[13:44] <g3vzv> still receiving here ok and uploading data but it does not get displayed often/ever on the tracker!
[13:45] <fsphil> you're in the raw data fine g3vzv
[13:45] <g7leu> got one through, but i suspect it may be my last
[13:46] <fsphil> g3vzv, there are two spaces after your callsign -- try removing those
[13:46] <g7leu> then all of a sudden i get a nice clear packet with 8 dB s/n. radio eh? :)
[13:46] <fsphil> hehe
[13:47] <fsphil> how steady is the signal? still wobbling about?
[13:47] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, at least some of the signal wobble's at source. ;)
[13:47] <g7leu> freq is stable at moment, but lots of fading here
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[13:47] <g7leu> that one was steady at 9dB s/n
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander2> I wonder if it will really reach the predicted landing point
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander2> I'd say it'll land much earlier
[13:48] <fsphil> I think it's going to land near or in Rugby
[13:48] <fsphil> although just to prove me wrong, it's now heading north
[13:49] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, the predictor's still working on the assumption it hasn't burst yet, and it's going to 'chute down when it does...
[13:49] <LazyLeopard> ...I think. ;)
[13:50] <fsphil> yea it looks that way
[13:50] <Upu> I can't recieve it any more
[13:50] <g7leu> i'm at between -2 and +9 dB s/n noise
[13:50] <fsphil> on the plus side, if it lands in Rugby someone might find it pretty quickly
[13:52] <g7leu> the elusive blue circle approaches!
[13:52] <fsphil> jcoxon, what's the straw sticking out the top of the payload?
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[13:52] Action: LazyLeopard is outside that noww...
[13:53] <fsphil> welcome to my club :)
[13:53] Action: Colin-G8TMV returns
[13:53] <fsphil> hmm, payload just turned 180 degrees again
[13:53] <Colin-G8TMV> I'm amazed hoe long my system managed to follow it
[13:54] <Colin-G8TMV> Was at M1BXf's qth for the last hour or so
[13:54] <Upu> well I got 3 data lines today :)
[13:54] <fsphil> that's good range Upu
[13:55] <Upu> not bad considering I was only using a whip
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[13:55] <Upu> and I was inside
[13:55] <jcoxon_> back
[13:55] <Upu> wb
[13:55] <fsphil> hmm that's better g3vzv but you're still not being plotted
[13:55] <LazyLeopard> Is now ;)
[13:56] <fsphil> oh wait you are!
[13:56] <Colin-G8TMV> what dial freq do people still have?
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[13:56] <fsphil> heading for a sheepy landing
[13:56] <g7leu> i'm on 434.0763MHz
[13:57] <LazyLeopard> 434075.000-ish
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[13:58] <jcoxon_> zo
[13:58] <g7leu> i can see the blue circle approach across the fields behind me!
[13:58] <jcoxon_> so*
[13:58] <jcoxon_> 1 balloon burst - gracefully descending?
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> landing in clifton upon dunsmore
[13:59] <jcoxon_> anyone live nearby?
[14:00] <Colin-G8TMV> My brother is in Crick - the other side of the motorway
[14:00] <g7leu> lost it now :(
[14:00] <fsphil> she's going north again
[14:00] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon_: you going to head out to get it?
[14:00] <jcoxon_> Colin-G8TMV, i don't think so
[14:01] <jcoxon_> its a long way for me to go and then home
[14:01] <Colin-G8TMV> just hope someone finds it?
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[14:01] <fsphil> amazing bit of tracking
[14:01] <Randomskk> so many trackers
[14:02] <g7leu> lost it when the blue circle was about 5 miles away, and i'm now just on the circle
[14:02] <Randomskk> did my tweets show up here?
[14:02] Action: Colin-G8TMV grins, most of the people who would have been in Flossie tracked from home instead
[14:02] <jcoxon_> hmmmm, i could but the round trip would just be too much
[14:02] Action: jcoxon_ has to go back to worthing tonight
[14:03] <Colin-G8TMV> Actually, Worthing via Rugby isn't too bad a trip - I've done it before
[14:03] <fsphil> picking up speed, -1.5m/s
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[14:04] <LazyLeopard> A way down to go, yet...
[14:04] <LazyLeopard> Who's still decoding signals?
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Just G4FEV
[14:05] <Colin-G8TMV> and his clone
[14:05] <LazyLeopard> Twice over. ;)
[14:05] <LazyLeopard> G3VZV too
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[14:06] <jcoxon_> i'll go and get it
[14:06] <chembrow> no float then?
[14:06] <Elwell> whats the rough value of payload?
[14:07] <Elwell> (no I'm not heading to nick it, its a tad far from .ch)
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[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Impressive number of trackers down to 350m
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[14:09] <Lunar_Lander2> wb juxta
[14:09] <Lunar_Lander2> seems like we have end of flight
[14:09] <Lunar_Lander2> what do you think?
[14:09] <juxta> ahoy
[14:10] <g3vzv> no copy here since packet 811 at 337 metres
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[14:11] <Randomskk> I wonder if an altitude based transmission method might be a good idea - transmit continuously below 1km or something
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Charge vs time, green line is approximate charging amount
[14:12] <g3vzv> whats the ground height around there?
[14:12] <Elwell> SpeedEvil: can you chuck batt V against temp on that?
[14:13] <jcoxon_> okay i'll be back later
[14:13] <LazyLeopard> Randomskk: ...but back off on frequency if position doesn't change, to keep the tx going longer on the ground?
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[14:13] <Colin-G8TMV> it's quite high on the East side of the motorway
[14:13] <g7leu> also perhaps switch to shorter packets below a certain altitude? perhaps the lat and lon are all that really matters in the last few minutes of a flight?
[14:13] <g7leu> (+ alt of course!) doh!
[14:14] <Randomskk> good point - short, continuous packets while still going down after 1km, then once on the ground swap to infrequent packets
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander2> do you think the flight train could be dragged by the remaining balloons now?
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Elwell: done
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Temp is pretty constant
[14:16] <Elwell> hmm not as large a shift as i'd expected
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[14:19] <SpeedEvil> Looks almost like it's heading into an estate
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[14:20] <g3vzv> the ground is only about 90m around the last known location
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[14:21] <SpeedEvil> From streetview - not a sink estate
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> Though not a very propserous one
[14:22] <Lunar_Lander2> Colin-G8TMV ?
[14:25] <Lunar_Lander2> brb
[14:30] <G4FNS> Another triumph for FEV start to finish!
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[14:34] <Lunar_Lander2> FEV?
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[14:53] <NigeyS> brr cold out :/
[14:53] <NigeyS> hey Dan-K2VOL
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi NigeyS
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> Getting ready to fly?
[14:54] <NigeyS> noo, been trying to track james's launch
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh!
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Didn't know it was up yet
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> just woke up
[14:55] <NigeyS> went up at 10am
[14:55] <NigeyS> and came back down 30mins ao
[14:55] <NigeyS> ago*
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> oh
[14:56] <NigeyS> guessing a balloon burst .. went higher than predicted
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> hmmm
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh definitely burst with a profile like that
[14:57] <NigeyS> yup, 7.3km .. to much pressure maybe ?
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[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> Not sure, have to hear what james did on launch
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> but of course there was too much pressure, otherwise it wouldn't burst :-P
[15:00] <NigeyS> there are other ways for it to burst :P
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> well, not really for this kind of balloon, friction and sharp objects aren't going to affect them like they would latex
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> we need to do a test with compressed air
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> to see how much pressure the envelopes can take
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> also multiple balloons fails more easily
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a 200fpm climb, that's just too fast
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> as one inevitably takes the strain first
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> as itll have slightly more gas
[15:02] <Lunar_Lander2> what kind of balloon did he use?
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> so the compressive load is taken by just one envelope
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> and if it did it would slow the ascent, easing the pressure rate increase on the others
[15:03] <NigeyS> foil / mylar
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> party balloons
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander2> ah ok#
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Have to find out precisely how much weight and lift he had to gain useful insight from this one
[15:05] <NigeyS> yup, i think all he said so far was 50% full ..
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> But, basically it needs to be less lift to weight ratio than this one was
[15:06] <Dan-K2VOL> % full is not what you should be using for measuring lift
[15:06] <Lunar_Lander2> true
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> that's a pretty landing site
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> Hope it's not in those trees
[15:08] <NigeyS> lol i was thinking the same
[15:08] <NigeyS> looking at it, last telemtry it was still at 300+m
[15:09] <NigeyS> wouldve gone further south so avoided the trees
[15:09] <fsphil> ARISSat-1 is being launched in two weeks, nice :)
[15:09] <NigeyS> oh
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Is that the KYSat?
[15:10] <fsphil> it's what became of suitsat-2 I think
[15:10] <fsphil> it's being launched from the ISS
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh really!
[15:10] <fsphil> has cameras and will be doing sstv
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice have to check that out
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> excess lift/weight is the determining factor
[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> I heard a student built cubesat from the universities in the US state of Kentucky was launching in a few weeks as well
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[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> Didn't know the name though
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> fill % determines how high it goes
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[15:12] <Laurenceb_> as itll burst at just above ambient pressure, a mems barometer might work well
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Laurenceb_ fill% is a measurement far to inaccurate to use with superpressure balloons, unless you guys have some sort of volumetric measuring device. You need to measure grams (in resolution of at least 1 gram) of lift on a payload and balloon this small
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> i was speaking theoretically
[15:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Yes, the MPXV5010 and similar family would be good
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> but yeah measure the lift from each envelope
[15:13] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: eroomde suggested making a manifold and connecting the four balloons together
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> and try and make it the same for each and just enough to lift the payload
[15:13] <Randomskk> then the helium would balance itself out
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> oh good idea
[15:13] <Randomskk> you could fill all four at once through the manifold too
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> thats very sensible
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> we could also stick a pressure senor on it
[15:14] <fsphil> here's a thought -- how about having all four balloons connected with a vent
[15:14] <Randomskk> see above
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> ... thats not superpressure
[15:15] <Randomskk> you could probably zero pressure though
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[15:15] <Randomskk> and so still float
[15:15] <fsphil> oh right, sorry my brain missed that
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> theres lots of aquarium fittings that work nicely
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> but some cheap tubes might shatter at low temp
[15:16] <NigeyS> hmm going to have to try something different on my pico launch then :|
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> i have nylon 4 way juctions somewhere
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> used them on my methane digester :P
[15:17] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[15:17] <Zuph> hola
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> so they are a bit shitty now
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> do the party balloons have valves built in for filling?
[15:18] <NigeyS> iirc yes
[15:18] <NigeyS> but i think they damage very easily, so its a fill in 1 go kinda thing
[15:18] <fsphil> the one I filled yesterday had a self-sealing strip on the neck
[15:18] <fsphil> like a glue
[15:18] <NigeyS> eugh
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> ah
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> could anyone take photo with a ruler in the frame for reference?
[15:19] <NigeyS> i dont have one here, my order hasnt arrived yet, phil you got 1 ?
[15:19] <fsphil> I don't have it here unfortunately, was for a birthday party :)
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> maybe we could use rubber stoppers, chemistry style
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> but heavy
[15:20] <Randomskk> tape I think
[15:20] <Randomskk> the ones we had have a plastic tube
[15:20] <Randomskk> long piece of plastic
[15:20] <Randomskk> thin ish
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> oh thatd be perfect
[15:20] <Randomskk> you stick a straw or something in to fill
[15:20] <Randomskk> then pull out again. can refill, too. the internal pressure closes it.
[15:20] <NigeyS> ahh
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> or aquarium hose :P
[15:20] <Randomskk> issue with silicone hoses is they pull the tubes out again if you try and pull out
[15:20] <NigeyS> i have some aquarium hose here ..
[15:20] <Randomskk> and invert the tubes in the process
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> isnt there some way to clamp it
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> with a small cable tie or something
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: 'Fill % is far too...' - is an alternative a very sensitive differential pressure sensor, and a valve?
[15:21] <Randomskk> maybe. if you just put it in one-off it'd be fine.
[15:21] <Randomskk> I think you could make a good enough manifold with some plastic drinking straws
[15:21] <Randomskk> tbh
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> youd need to be able to join them with 0 leaks
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> you can get 4 way nylon junctions for aquarium stuff
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> no leaks and light
[15:22] <Randomskk> you'd want five way
[15:22] <Randomskk> need to fill it
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[15:22] <Laurenceb_> 4 way + 3 way T
[15:22] <Randomskk> fair enough
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> You can also get much more than 4 way junctions
[15:22] <Zuph> We're going to try to build a pressure port into a superpressure envelope this summer.
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> I've got a 12 somewhere around here.
[15:23] <Zuph> We're also going to try to build a pressure relief valve, in case we filled it up too much :-p
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> you could go for active pressure relaif
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[15:23] <Laurenceb_> with a sensortechnics solenoid valve
[15:24] <Zuph> We like the cheap Pneuaire valve.
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> but the weigh starts to add up
[15:24] <Zuph> $12, low current, works at -40.
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> where from?
[15:24] <Zuph> http://pneuaire.com/lowwasu34wav.html
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> hmm but heavy and 12V
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> its probably a lot easier just to fill it properly
[15:26] <NigeyS> laurenceb_ you're forgetting the weight factor, at most these 36"'ers can lift 66g each, any kind of valve / manifold setup is going to hinder the payload lift ability
[15:26] <Zuph> It's the smallest, lowest power pneumatic valve we've been able to find.
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> look at sensortechnics
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> 4grams
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> NigeyS: itd be a couple of grams
[15:26] <Randomskk> NigeyS: barely that
[15:26] <Zuph> Does it work at -40?
[15:26] <Randomskk> we had four balloons to lift a 100g payload
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> Zuph: the silicone one does
[15:26] <NigeyS> crikey :|
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[15:27] <NigeyS> hey james, found it? :D
[15:27] <Randomskk> all were 50% full so you could go more
[15:27] <Randomskk> but eh
[15:27] <Randomskk> hi jcoxon
[15:27] <Zuph> Laurenceb: which one are you looking at?
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> oh another thing, if the balloons are less inflated, they are less likely to burst
[15:27] <NigeyS> Randomskk, payload was 95g ish ?
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> as they reach equilibrium at high altitude, so lower ambient pressure
[15:28] <Randomskk> yea
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> the superpressure is a fraction relative to the ambient
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Is that true?
[15:28] <Randomskk> oh we had a big discussion about that
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Isn't the volume, and the unbalanced lift the important thing?
[15:28] <Randomskk> without appearing to come to much of a conclusion
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> they are both important
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Do I mean surface area?
[15:28] <jgrahamc> Is anyone going to pick up pico?
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> unbalanced lift has to be cancelled
[15:29] <NigeyS> Randomskk, hmm id love to know where they got the 66g lift fromm on the spec sheet then if you had to use 4 for less than 100g
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> at higher altitude it takes less superpressure to concel it
[15:29] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, james has gone i think
[15:29] <jgrahamc> Cool. Very curious to know where it landed exactly.
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: If it floats, unbalanced lift needs cancelled by differential pressure pressurising the balloon enough that it is x grams 'heavier' than it should be, as it won't expand
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[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Or to put it another way - needs to constrain the balloon enough so that it does not displace a weight of air equivalent to the unbalanced lift.
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sensortechnics.com/index.php?fid=300&fpar=YToxOntzOjQ6InBjaWQiO3M6MzoiMzI3Ijt9&isSSL=0&aps=0&blub=acb4b76b7f258708448118bab370800c
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[15:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah, so at higher altitude the superpressure is smaller
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> I don't think that's true - but my head is stuffed with cotton woll at the moment, so can't argue properly.
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> Maybe I'm confused.
[15:31] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil, regarding your question "is an alternative a very sensitive differential pressure sensor, and a valve?" if you're measuring He tank tank pressure before and after inflation, yes.
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> think if the pressure was really really low
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> you only need a little superpressure to cancel the lift
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> differential pressure sensors are a pain
[15:33] <jcoxon> high up a tree
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> i spent ages searching for stuff for pitot tubes
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> eek
[15:33] <NigeyS> nooooooooo
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I was meaning in flight to avoid bursting
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Congrats on finding it!
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> But :(
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Still transmitting?
[15:33] <jcoxon> very strong
[15:33] <jcoxon> but i haven't recovered it
[15:34] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil yeah
[15:34] <jcoxon> its really quite high
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[15:34] <SpeedEvil> 357m? :)
[15:34] <jcoxon> 152m
[15:34] <NigeyS> chainsaw?
[15:34] <jcoxon> the point is on hte tracker
[15:34] <jcoxon> bbiab going to investigate
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
[15:34] <NigeyS> dam trees :/
[15:35] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Beyond long pole reach, then...
[15:35] <Dan-K2VOL> The point is you need to do the PV=NRT math to know how much helium to put in the superpressure, it's not like latex where you can guess, the margin is just too close
[15:35] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, look at the tracker, theres only about a dozen trees :(
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> That sensortechnics one does look nice
[15:36] <chembrow> empty fields all round, and it ends up in a tree. typical
[15:36] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Agreed.
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Except the operating temperature.
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> 0C is a pretty far cry from 40C
[15:37] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Ah, I skimmed right over that into "storage temperature"
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[15:38] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: well - it's going to bump around the ground blowing till it hits something.
[15:38] <Zuph> Well, for a superpressure it might be fine, since we'd only need the vent at pressurization :-p
[15:38] <NigeyS> lol good point
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[15:39] <Dan-K2VOL> True
[15:40] <Dan-K2VOL> BTW whoever was concerned about tubing at high altitude, teflon will work very well for this application. The problem will be sealing the tubing to the SP envelope. having tubing in it is not a long term solution, but a short term training device
[15:41] <Laurenceb_> sugar cubes suspened from the bottom
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[15:42] <Laurenceb_> ooh sensortechnics do hot film sensors now
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sensortechnics.com/index.php?fid=300&fpar=YToxOntzOjQ6InBjaWQiO3M6MzoiMTQxIjt9&isSSL=0&aps=0&blub=1425ebfa6fcb69164317aa44b4669d21
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[16:02] <jcoxon> thats not coming down
[16:02] <jcoxon> about 20 ft up the tree
[16:02] <fsphil> eep
[16:02] <NigeyS> dammit :(
[16:02] <jcoxon> just asked in hte local pub whether they knew who owned the land but they don't
[16:02] <jcoxon> i've left a mob number with them if it comes down
[16:03] <NigeyS> could you see how many of the balloons had burst ?
[16:03] <jcoxon> yes
[16:03] <jcoxon> 1 balloon
[16:03] <jcoxon> and properly burst
[16:03] <NigeyS> yikes
[16:03] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_, you were right :P
[16:04] <jcoxon> it might come down on its own, once the others lose gas or when there is a strong wind
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> itd be interesting to do some pressure tests with the enveloped
[16:04] <NigeyS> yup, fingers crossed, be a shame to lose the payload
[16:05] <jcoxon> also i'll email rugby amateur radio club as well
[16:05] <jcoxon> they might be able to help
[16:06] <NigeyS> yeah, practically on their doorstep
[16:06] <fsphil> good idea, even if one of them could keep an eye on the signal, see how long it goes for
[16:06] <jcoxon> yes
[16:06] <NigeyS> bat is lasting very well
[16:06] <fsphil> 982 .. what's the voltage?
[16:07] <jcoxon> check the wiki the conversion is there
[16:08] <NigeyS> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/volts.gif
[16:08] <NigeyS> just looking at that
[16:08] <fsphil> 3.8v -- excellent
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[16:09] <NigeyS> yup, the lipos are good to 2.75 i think
[16:10] <jcoxon> solar panel is exposed as well
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[16:10] <NigeyS> even better, itll charge for another hour at least, then again at sunrise, that thing should stay alive for days
[16:11] <fsphil> is it rain proof?
[16:11] <jcoxon> fsphil, could be
[16:12] <Lunar_Lander2> jcoxon can I ask a question?
[16:13] <jcoxon> right emailed
[16:13] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander2, if it is very quick
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander2> yes
[16:13] <jcoxon> am about to head home
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander2> I saw on the spacenear the "Transmitting Mode" being 0 and 1
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander2> what does that mean?
[16:14] <jcoxon> on the wiki
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander2> thank you
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Good journey back jcoxon!
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[16:15] <Lunar_Lander2> yes, I wish you the same!
[16:16] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, ive got some long ladders quick we'll go kidnap pico ;)
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander2> yay
[16:19] <mattltm> Myantenna launcher could come in handy :)
[16:19] <NigeyS> ya know, my ladders extend about 14ft, im going to put them in the car when i launch, just in case!
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[16:21] <fsphil> these pico flights have both been pretty neat
[16:21] <mattltm> I built one of these for rigging HF wires. Looks like it should be in the standard UKHAS toolbag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXuvOWR2PL4&feature=related
[16:21] <NigeyS> yup, with a few unexpected surprises to
[16:21] <fsphil> I wonder if a balloon could be made from cling film :)
[16:23] <NigeyS> mattltm, thats cool !
[16:24] <mattltm> Great fun in the park :)
[16:24] <Elwell> mattltm: yeah nice
[16:24] <fsphil> nice
[16:24] <fsphil> wish I had a handy tree like that :)
[16:25] <mattltm> Me too.
[16:25] <mattltm> I have to go /P if I want to do some HF work.
[16:25] <fsphil> yea, I'm starting to think HF is impossible where I live
[16:26] <mattltm> We had a power cut last month. My 857 runs via a SLAB so it stayed on air. HF was great.
[16:27] <fsphil> sweet
[16:28] <mattltm> The launcher + one of these - http://www.countycomm.com/microhook.htm
[16:29] <mattltm> Job done :)
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[16:42] <Lunar_Lander2> http://winzenflyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/tracking-picoatlas-2/
[16:47] <NigeyS> nice write up lunar :-)
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[16:51] <Lunar_Lander2> thanks :)
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[17:03] <fsphil> man it's cold out there
[17:04] <Elwell> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2LcHprYM8oYJ:https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/24488-1/FM/3-09.15/chap7.htm&hl=en&gl=ch&strip=1 <-- military met guide
[17:04] <Elwell> can't get the non-cached version
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[17:14] <jgrahamc> Did James climb the tree?
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> I think he left it.
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[17:21] <Randomskk> haha it just had to land on a tree
[17:21] <fsphil> at least it won't go wandering
[17:23] <NigeyS> lol
[17:24] <NigeyS> shame noone from coventry has a reciever
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander2> Randomskk
[17:25] <Lunar_Lander2> http://winzenflyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/tracking-picoatlas-2/
[17:25] <fsphil> be nice if one of the rugby amateur peoples gets dl-fldigi
[17:25] <Randomskk> nice write up
[17:26] <Randomskk> I'll have to get the few photos I took online
[17:26] <NigeyS> yup
[17:26] <NigeyS> i had a look on global tuners, nothing close by that was working
[17:26] <Lunar_Lander2> thanks
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander2> I think I'll make a follow-up entry
[17:27] <Lunar_Lander2> looking at the temperatures the tracker gave
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[17:34] <Randomskk> cool done
[17:34] <Randomskk> check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/tags/picoatlas/
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[17:35] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> i like the proper impedance matched antenni
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander2> cool
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander2> oh cute
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander2> :)
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander2> Laurenceb_ lambda/2?
[17:39] <Laurenceb_> the ground wires bent up
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander2> ah
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk whats with soaking lipos in salt water?
[17:43] <fsphil> nice balloons
[17:44] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: it had buldged
[17:44] <Randomskk> so I needed to neutralise it before disposal
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking about free lift
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> the previous pico seemed to reach neutral bouyancy, but it didnt have enough lift to reamin flying as the sun set
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> this pico didnt have enough strenght to reach float
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if its even possible :/
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> The pressure delta at float is quite considerable
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> At least at those altitudes
[17:48] <Randomskk> is it though? I want to do some working out for this at some point when I don't have to do working out for work related things
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Unbalanced lift is - say - 30g
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Total volume of balloons is say 0.5m^3
[17:48] <Randomskk> it seems like the internal pressure should match external until it starts superpressuring, but depending on your fill you should be able to have it hit neutral buoyancy almost as soon as it superpressures, so there'd be very little delta p
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> yes, but then itll descend at sunset
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If you want it to superpressure at 7km, and it's rising at 1m/s just before - then ...
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If atmospheric pressure is call it 30KPa
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Or 500g/m^3 of airish.
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> of course the green balloons arent ideal for this, you want silver aluminised mylar
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> We need to have an 'extra' ~10% of helium inside - compressed by the balloons
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> Or 3KPa
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> thats a lot for a mylar envelope
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Which is 1/2PSI or so.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> For a 50cm diameter balloon, you're looking at hoop stress of 150Kg
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> we need to do some tests to find the burst pressure
[17:51] <Randomskk> they're more like 96cm diameter
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Unless I've got the numbers wrong
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[17:52] <Randomskk> won't hoop stress depend on skin thickness
[17:52] <Randomskk> pr/t
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> no
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Err
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Yes - I mean total force exerted
[17:53] <Randomskk> ah, okay.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> the exact stress in a material science way depends on the thickness
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Handily - you can totally ignore shape.
[17:53] <Randomskk> well no
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Pressure inside * interior diameter / wall thickness(total)
[17:53] <Randomskk> the average force due to the pressure might be what you calculate with F=P/A but
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> I mean ignore the shape if it's a sphere
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> which it is
[17:54] <Randomskk> well it's kind of spherical
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Non-spheres get nasty.
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Inflate it with 3KPa, and it'll get more so. :)
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> i get about 7Kpa for a 25um mylar film sphere
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> theoretical burst pressure
[17:55] <Randomskk> hm
[17:55] <Randomskk> brb dinner
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> uneaven bonding of the seams could concentrate the stress massively
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> yep
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> Or even non-lap bonding
[18:02] Action: Colin-G8TMV looks at where it landed - it's only 100yds from a pub!
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander2> cool!
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander2> good to see you Colin-G8TMV
[18:03] Action: Colin-G8TMV has been here - but mostly quiet
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander2> ah
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander2> I just wanted to ask whether you had got that thing about the "HAB club" yesterday?
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander2> and what do you think about this
[18:04] <Colin-G8TMV> not that I remember
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander2> ah ok
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander2> well, Zuph and I had the idea that there should be a HAB club just as a rocketeer club
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander2> to introduce people to HAB and to make sure all is done safely
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander2> and to make HAB known
[18:06] <Colin-G8TMV> Difficult - it's not really very like model rockets at all
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander2> that is true
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander2> it would be a different organizationj
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander2> -j
[18:07] <Colin-G8TMV> rockets go woosh up then straight down and don't travel very far
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[18:07] <Zuph> To be fair, the idea has been floated many times before. There was a lot of talk after the SNOX flights.
[18:07] <Colin-G8TMV> but balloons need chasing - it's a whole different set of logistics and doesn't make for a good "event" the way rockets do
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander2> true
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander2> if you have an audience, the balloon drifts away and that was it
[18:08] <Colin-G8TMV> exactly it's not a spectator thing like rockets
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander2> yes
[18:09] <Colin-G8TMV> also because of the length of the flight and the lack of frequencies it's difficult to do more than one at a time
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[18:09] <Colin-G8TMV> so you can't do the launch... Oooh. ... bored now .. ah there goes another one
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander2> true
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander2> only the real HAB-flyers would really be interested
[18:11] <Colin-G8TMV> and the people like me interested in the telemetry side of things
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander2> yes
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[18:27] <Lunar_Lander2> the balloon met an inversion appearently
[18:31] <fsphil> hold a mini-balloon event
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander2> good idea
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[19:02] <Lunar_Lander2> wb Zuph
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[19:22] <NigeyS> maybe a dumb Q but can anyone make use of some new telescope lenses that i'm about to put in the trash ?
[19:23] <fsphil> what lens?
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Also - ebay
[19:24] <NigeyS> off an old vixen refractor, doublet i think
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[19:24] <SpeedEvil> I was truly amazed the other day to find someone wanted to buy a CD player - admittedly Sony - but not even able to read mp3 - for 16 quid
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander2> on ebay=
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander2> ?
[19:25] <NigeyS> lol crazy what people will still buy isnt it
[19:25] <NigeyS> fsphil, theyre 80mm btw
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander2> some people on ebay are insane
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander2> bidding 5 days before the end of auction
[19:25] <fsphil> I'm wondering if they'd be any good for doing the optical communications stuff I'm gonna try
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander2: yes
[19:26] <NigeyS> possibly, want me to send them over? theyre literally just parceled up doing nothing
[19:26] <fsphil> well if you're gonna trash them, send 'em over - if not I can always trash them here
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander2> my dad and I once speculated that some auctions may have friends of the offerer
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander2> just there to increase the price
[19:27] <NigeyS> fsphil, sure, will parcel force them tomorrow
[19:27] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander2, seen that done many times :/
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[19:30] <fsphil> thanks
[19:30] <M0DTS_Rob> fsphil Good for making a finder sight on optical equipment!
[19:31] <fsphil> I was thinking of using it as the main lens -- or is something bigger normally used? I see a lot of Fresnel lenses used for that kind of thing
[19:32] <M0DTS_Rob> Yes fresnel lenses far better, no need for precise focussing with optical signals as the sensor Photodiode is fairly large.
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[19:33] <Lunar_Lander2> hi jcoxon
[19:33] <fsphil> true
[19:34] <jcoxon> hey
[19:34] <M0DTS_Rob> i use 26cm square fresenl with 1W led on sending side, very intersting playing about with lightwaves
[19:34] <fsphil> it is!
[19:34] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: you need to keep a SOTA pole in your car
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander2> jcoxon : vhttp://winzenflyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/tracking-picoatlas-2/
[19:34] <fsphil> I had RTTY going across the room with a small LED
[19:34] <M0DTS_Rob> try video.. far better :-)
[19:35] <fsphil> oooh you got video transmitting over an LED?
[19:35] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, indeed
[19:35] <jcoxon> it was really quite high
[19:36] <M0DTS_Rob> yes, it is documented on the net from a German amateur station, tried it and it works.
[19:36] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: I was really amazed at how well my tracking went considering it was just a Moxon hung inside by the window
[19:37] <NigeyS> rtty over an led? :|
[19:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:37] <jcoxon> good work
[19:37] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, when we first started doing this system thats exactly what i used to do
[19:37] <fsphil> NigeyS, yep :) I had an idea of using it from the balloon
[19:37] <Colin-G8TMV> I left it running at home and went out on errands, then went to Gav's place and got him set up tracking too
[19:38] <mattltm> fsphil: There is an article in this months radcom about optical comms
[19:38] <fsphil> I read that -- good stuff
[19:38] <NigeyS> fsphil, now that would be super fun !
[19:38] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: well I'm not allowed outside antennas in this flat, but hipefully I'll have a house of my own again soon
[19:38] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, did you have freq control running?
[19:39] <jcoxon> i've also got a web based control of dl-fldigi working
[19:39] <Colin-G8TMV> Only the AFC box on in dl-fldigi
[19:39] <jcoxon> it works great on your phone
[19:39] <fsphil> nice, the frequency drift must have been pretty minimal
[19:39] <Colin-G8TMV> I did have the cat to the rig set up so maybe it did it by itself
[19:39] <jcoxon> nah you have to turn it on
[19:40] <jcoxon> any one know a rugby based ham?
[19:41] <Colin-G8TMV> The call box has a postcode ordered list I think
[19:41] <NigeyS> put a post on the uk ham radio forum james
[19:41] <Colin-G8TMV> or maybe put Rugby into the search box on QRZ
[19:43] <jcoxon> i emailed teh rugby amateur radio club
[19:43] <Colin-G8TMV> which finds G0BMF G0COY G0GSA and a few others
[19:43] <jcoxon> hopefully that helps
[19:43] <Colin-G8TMV> I thought it very clever that it landed really close to a pub - how did you do that?
[19:45] <NigeyS> alcohol detection sensor!
[19:45] <Colin-G8TMV> you need a telemetry mode that works out when you will get there and pre-orders a round of drinks
[19:45] <NigeyS> lol think it got there early, got drunk, and climbed a tree!
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[19:46] <fsphil> can see the trees on streetview -- yea nasty looking
[19:46] <fsphil> lovely spot though!
[19:46] <NigeyS> yeah, all those open fields.. and it hits the trees..lol
[19:47] <Colin-G8TMV> better than in the river
[19:47] <NigeyS> oh yes, better than a swim
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander2> it is the spring of the river?
[19:47] <fsphil> unless you own a boat
[19:50] <fsphil> M0DTS_Rob, do you have a link or any search terms for the optical video? I'm not finding anything
[19:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, so you reckon it'll be alive tomorrow morning
[19:51] <jcoxon> ?
[19:51] <fsphil> I'd be fairly confident it will be yea
[19:52] <fsphil> if it's a sunny day then definitely
[19:53] <M0DTS_Rob> fsphil: http://home.arcor.de/w_fritz/Laser/TX.html
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[19:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sqyrndgwykhh&lvl=19.283256378213913&dir=9.471028890241884&sty=b&eo=0
[19:53] <M0DTS_Rob> it's for laser diode but works fine with normal led's
[19:53] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Bings coverage of teh area is good!
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> The angles!
[19:54] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5402160984/
[19:54] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5402161838/in/photostream/
[19:55] <fsphil> M0DTS_Rob, oh that's nice -- surprisingly good picture too
[19:55] <M0DTS_Rob> yes it's good here across the room, going to try some kilometers soon!
[19:55] <NigeyS> jcoxon, you can be pretty sure thats not going to go anywhere anytime soon!
[19:56] <fsphil> M0DTS_Rob, ooh let me know how that goes
[19:57] <fsphil> jcoxon, the panel should definitely catch some sun at that height
[19:57] <M0DTS_Rob> will do, looking to get over 90km on ssb over optical if the weather allows soon.
[19:57] <fsphil> I can't see in the photo clearly, is the payload the right way up?
[19:58] <fsphil> sweet
[19:58] <fsphil> we don't have many spots here in NI for doing more than 40km range, unless I go to the coast and try with someone in scotland
[19:58] <jcoxon> fsphil, yes
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: moonbounce
[19:59] <fsphil> hehe, use the apollo reflectors
[20:01] <M0DTS_Rob> hmmmm that would take some doing!
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[20:02] <fsphil> it's possible though
[20:02] <jcoxon> bbl
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[20:02] <fsphil> would need an extremely slow digital mode
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Yup
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> But is quite doable, especially with GPS sync
[20:02] <M0DTS_Rob> yes i think they do it regularly in the states to check the moon is not leaving us..
[20:02] <fsphil> indeed
[20:03] <fsphil> they use huge telescopes and big lasers to do that though
[20:03] <fsphil> I bet it's possible on a smaller scale, so long as speed and precision are not needed
[20:03] <NigeyS> yeah and even then they miss more times than they hit the target
[20:03] <fsphil> yea aiming would be the trick
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[20:03] <fsphil> and keeping on target for however many hours it would need to transmit the signal
[20:04] <NigeyS> hey RocketBoy
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[20:05] <fsphil> actually forget the reflectors, the lunar surface might do
[20:05] <RocketBoy> hey NigeyS - anyone know how it ended today?
[20:05] <NigeyS> up a tree :(
[20:05] <NigeyS> burst at 7.3km
[20:05] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5402160984/
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: The moon is spherical - which means you have a quite large dispersion if you just bounce off it
[20:05] <fsphil> did you launch today too RocketBoy?
[20:06] <fsphil> indeed SpeedEvil, but the reflectors are probably too small to even bother with
[20:06] <NigeyS> 70cm square iirc
[20:06] <fsphil> with anything but a big telescope anyway
[20:06] <RocketBoy> fsphil: nope - I didn't finish my payload in time - perhaps next week
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> 70cm^2 gives an enormous reflective advantage though
[20:08] <NigeyS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_Experiment
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> As the beamwidth coming back from them is stupidly tiny
[20:08] <NigeyS> At the Moon's surface, the beam is only about 6.5 kilometers (four miles)
[20:08] <NigeyS> only...
[20:09] <fsphil> lol
[20:09] <fsphil> that's a lot of wasted photons
[20:09] <NigeyS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wettzell_Laser_Ranging_System.jpg
[20:10] <NigeyS> all you need is 1 of them phil ;)
[20:10] <fsphil> more than one if you're trying to send data
[20:10] <NigeyS> yup, so .. a few million quid then?
[20:11] <fsphil> oh easy
[20:11] <NigeyS> lol
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> 75cm scope - but the scope can be a really, really bad scope
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[20:13] <fsphil> I suppose the only flaw with using the reflectors is that the receiver would have to be quite close to the transmitter on earth
[20:13] <fsphil> or they'll be outside the reflection
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[20:15] <fsphil> also would probably need a notam or the pilots would get hissy
[20:15] <NigeyS> or a seperate dish to detect air traffic and disable the laser
[20:16] <fsphil> I think planes transmit their position using a beacon too
[20:16] <M0DTS_Rob> ads-b
[20:17] <fsphil> that's it -- seen the advert but couldn't remember the name
[20:17] <M0DTS_Rob> but tracking balloons is more fun
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[20:18] <fsphil> yea, tracking planes is a bit dull :)
[20:18] <fsphil> unless your balloon is snagged onto the wing
[20:18] <M0DTS_Rob> ha
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[20:23] <M0DTS_Rob> been playing with my micro payload idea and design is looking like ~8g for the telemetry equipment excluding some polystyrene...
[20:24] <Randomskk> what's on it?
[20:25] <M0DTS_Rob> very basic! pPIC16f688, BMP085, DS18B20 and QFM-TX 434MHz transmitter, 100mAh lipo
[20:26] <Randomskk> no GPS?
[20:26] <M0DTS_Rob> thats a future version, ~12g !
[20:26] <Randomskk> heh
[20:26] <Randomskk> sounds good. surprisingly low mass. do you include the PCB weight?
[20:26] <M0DTS_Rob> yes
[20:26] <Randomskk> nice
[20:26] <M0DTS_Rob> 1" square
[20:26] <Randomskk> yea
[20:27] <Randomskk> fair enough
[20:27] <Randomskk> we were contemplating this earlier today
[20:27] <Randomskk> there are microchips with an 8052 CPU and a 434MHz radio, and then a ublox gps chip, chipscale gps antenna
[20:27] <Randomskk> lithium coin cells
[20:27] <Randomskk> (higher energy density)
[20:27] <Randomskk> really gets the weight right down
[20:27] <M0DTS_Rob> i have some 12mm square gps modules, just need to figure them out
[20:29] <M0DTS_Rob> sounds good
[20:29] <M0DTS_Rob> coin cells too heavy for my scale!
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[20:31] <Randomskk> are you sure? I think coin cells come in lighter than a 100mAh lipo :P
[20:31] <Randomskk> you can get some very very small coin cells
[20:33] <M0DTS_Rob> maybe, just not the ones i have! 100mA lipo is 2.7g, the lithium 3v ones i have are 3g
[20:33] <Randomskk> hm
[20:33] <Randomskk> well, fair enough. sounds like you've got the weight pretty minimal
[20:34] <M0DTS_Rob> more of a learning this having a go at this, but may launch one day if i get permission being right next to airport, CAA were unclear on needing official clearance or not for such a small balloon, when i tell them i'm near an airport it will put a stop to it i think!
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[20:37] <M0DTS_Rob> Teesside airport traffic is very low these days though..
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[20:50] <NigeyS> hi jgrahamc
[20:50] <jgrahamc> Hello
[20:51] <jgrahamc> Did you manage to track the flight today?
[20:52] <NigeyS> i couldnt get a clear signal myself, but it had alot of trackers
[20:52] <jgrahamc> It sure did. I could hear it from Fulham for a while standing on my flat roof with a Yagi in my hand but there was a lot of noise.
[20:54] <NigeyS> that's about all i got, could hear it a few times, but so low and noisy fldigi just couldnt decode, maybe next time :D
[20:54] <jgrahamc> Glad that it landed safely though. Annoying that it's up a tree.
[20:55] <NigeyS> yeah pesky trees, next time james needs to take ladders! lol
[20:59] <jgrahamc> I think what we need are those Parrot drones which you control one with an iPhone. Fit it with a knife and then fly the thing up and cut the balloon down.
[21:01] <NigeyS> haha definately!
[21:04] <Colin-G8TMV> All much too complicated. All you need is a SOTA pole with a bit of bent coathanger duct-taped to the top
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[21:06] <fsphil> or a specially trained monkey
[21:07] <Colin-G8TMV> no way - have you seen the cost of peanuts?
[21:07] <NigeyS> lol
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander2> xD
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[21:17] <Laurenceb_> Parrot drones are fail
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> wifi for a uav is just daft
[21:17] <Randomskk> I hear it has caused issues
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> "ooh no i have disconnect... plase stay flying okay for 10 seconds whilst i reconnect"
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> and theres the regulatory stuff as well yes
[21:19] <Randomskk> but like
[21:19] <Randomskk> what happens is they go full speed sideways into the nearest forest, never to be seen again
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> ah, due to the optical tracking?
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> and fail filter
[21:19] <Randomskk> not sure. something went very wrong for a few people
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> it uses a camera, ultrasonic rangefinder and gyro
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> you cnt really do foolproof control like that
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> but its an interesting idea
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> it shouldnt be cheaper to impliment... but due to the low cost of cmos cameras it is
[21:23] <jgrahamc> Hey randomskk, love your Nixie project.
[21:23] <Randomskk> thanks :D tempted to make a new case for it that's a bit more interesting
[21:23] <Randomskk> but as with many things have had difficulty making the time
[21:24] <jgrahamc> I understand on the time thing... there's a list of things I'd like to spend time on. Need to finish my HAB project first!
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah same here
[21:24] <Randomskk> my list of hardware projects I want to work on only grows
[21:25] <jgrahamc> That's the problem with having an imagination!
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[21:25] <Laurenceb_> as the lab monkey i get tasked with a ton of deranged projects as it is, without my own projects to work on
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.centauri-dreams.org/ <- vaguely interesting site
[21:28] <jgrahamc> My next project is to return to my rolling ball robot.
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> some of it is a little mad
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[21:28] <Laurenceb_> jgrahamc: neat
[21:28] <jgrahamc> Hey jcoxon
[21:29] <jcoxon> hey
[21:29] <jgrahamc> You sleeping in a field under picoatlas?
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[21:31] <jcoxon> jgrahamc, hehe - i'm home now
[21:31] <jcoxon> its a very tall tree
[21:31] <jgrahamc> How high up is it?
[21:31] <jcoxon> i'm more interested in finding a local ham to see if it survivies the night
[21:31] <jcoxon> 20ft
[21:32] <jgrahamc> So, Colin-G8TMV is right about the SOTA pole as a solution.
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander2> wb jcoxon
[21:33] <jcoxon> i was more worried about hte large pylon nearby
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander2> power line?
[21:34] <jcoxon> yeah there was a big set nearby
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander2> oh no
[21:35] <jgrahamc> Didn't spot that on the Google Map.
[21:36] <jgrahamc> Ah, now I see them to the north of where it landed.
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander2> jcoxon ?
[21:41] <jgrahamc> OK. Signing off.
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[21:41] <jcoxon> lots of positive things from that flight
[21:42] <jcoxon> very pleased with the code side of things
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander2> that is nice
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander2> it looks like you encountered an inversion
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander2> quite warm from 1000 m onward
[21:42] <jcoxon> yup
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander2> one data point has T=74°C though
[21:43] <jcoxon> oh yeah occasionally there are errors in reading the data
[21:43] <jcoxon> as its just for reference I just ignore them
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander2> yes
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander2> did you read my report on the flight?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander2> if no, do you want to have the link?
[21:44] <jcoxon> yup
[21:44] <jcoxon> i've read it
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander2> ah
[21:44] <jcoxon> good work
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander2> thanks
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander2> I think it is also some kind of training for my own flights
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander2> for reporting what happened
[21:45] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:45] <jcoxon> though these are unusal flights
[21:45] <jcoxon> unusual*
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander2> true
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[21:46] <jcoxon> i hope people realise that
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander2> I hope too
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander2> I took care to point out that today was a cluster balloon
[21:46] <jcoxon> yes
[21:46] <jcoxon> we haven't worked out foiled ballons yet
[21:47] <jcoxon> lots still to think about
[21:47] <jcoxon> right i'm going to bed - 7hrs of driving
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander2> yeah
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander2> well done jcoxon
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander2> :)
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander2> and good night
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[22:16] <NigeyS> can i just check ..
[22:17] <NigeyS> foil blankets for lining the payload box of ATS .. metallic both sides is ok ?
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[23:35] <NigeyS> hey SpeedEvil , StrayVoltage
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 31 2011