highaltitude.log.20110129

[00:01] <jcoxon> hmmmm internal or external temp sensor
[00:01] <jcoxon> that is the question
[00:02] <NigeyS> for pico ?
[00:02] <jcoxon> yes
[00:02] <jcoxon> external for balloon temp
[00:03] <jcoxon> internal for electronics temp
[00:03] <Colin-G8TMV> both?
[00:03] <NigeyS> colin stole my idea :p lol
[00:03] <jcoxon> only have 1 spare sensor
[00:03] <Colin-G8TMV> you need a relay then
[00:04] <jcoxon> nah - only having one
[00:04] <NigeyS> id go with external
[00:04] <jcoxon> i've broken my rule and am playing with hardware close to the launch
[00:04] <Colin-G8TMV> bad boy!
[00:04] <NigeyS> although .. air temp wont be much different to ground temp at 2 - 4 k will it ?
[00:05] <fsphil> or none
[00:05] <jcoxon> it'll be helpful if we make it to night fall
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[00:05] <fsphil> true
[00:05] <jcoxon> be able to see what sort of temp drops it experiences
[00:05] <fsphil> external would be more useful then
[00:05] <fsphil> you'd see the same temperature the balloon is experiencing
[00:06] <NigeyS> what phil said
[00:06] <jcoxon> also internal will just tell us how bad the insulation is
[00:06] <NigeyS> lol, what you using for insulation ?
[00:06] <fsphil> hehe -- you could just measure the frequency drift :)
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[00:48] <fsphil> 10p transistor on rapid .... "This item has a minimum order value of 20000"
[00:51] <jcoxon> eek
[00:51] <fsphil> hehe, I only wanted 5 :D
[00:52] <fsphil> gonna use them to switch off the camera and gps after landing
[00:52] <jcoxon> clever
[00:52] <jcoxon> right temp sensor working nicely
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[00:54] <fsphil> looking forward to this flight. anything could happen
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[00:54] <jcoxon> indeed
[00:54] <jcoxon> just hope it works
[00:54] <jcoxon> it'll be crap if something breaks
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[01:00] <Randomskk> jcoxon: pong
[01:02] <Randomskk> right, got your email
[01:02] <jcoxon> possible?
[01:02] <Randomskk> so hopefully eroomde or jonsowman will deal with it as I don't know who to email about the things
[01:02] <Randomskk> it may be possible, I doubt they will have supervisions on a sunday morning or mind too much about a launch, but we usually try to give them a bit more notice
[01:03] <jcoxon> i also know that jonsowman
[01:04] <Randomskk> huh?
[01:04] <jcoxon> is away
[01:04] <jcoxon> oops got distracted mid sentence
[01:05] <Randomskk> he is having some fairly well earned time off while I sit around doing work I should have done over the holiday but he does have some internet access so hopefully can either email or tell me who to email at some point
[01:05] <jcoxon> otherwise we'll find somewhere else to launch
[01:06] <jcoxon> its not a problem
[01:06] <Randomskk> would it be NOTAMd
[01:06] <Randomskk> if so I need to tell cambs and be there
[01:06] <Randomskk> (or ed)
[01:06] <Randomskk> (plus NOTAM requries chu launch of course)
[01:06] <jcoxon> no it'll fit within teh small balloon
[01:06] <jcoxon> classification
[01:07] <Randomskk> cool
[01:07] <jcoxon> we could also use ears
[01:07] <jcoxon> but its cold over there
[01:07] <Randomskk> it is quite cold here in the last few days
[01:07] <Randomskk> by quite cold I mean brrrrr
[01:08] <jcoxon> it snowed yesterday here
[01:08] <Randomskk> we had no precip but i twas cold enough
[01:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[01:08] <jcoxon> right enough testing of the payload for tonight
[01:09] <Randomskk> "enough testing"? :p
[01:09] <jcoxon> 'for tonight'
[01:09] <Randomskk> hehe
[01:09] <Randomskk> right, sleep time - hopefully will sort this out either way tomorrow a.m.
[01:09] <Randomskk> theoretically I guess you can launch from anywhere though
[01:09] <jcoxon> yup
[01:10] <jcoxon> its more whether we want to put together a mission control
[01:10] <Randomskk> could be fun
[01:11] <Randomskk> right, sleep, early start and lots of work tomorrow
[01:11] <jcoxon> night
[01:11] <Randomskk> seya
[01:11] <Randomskk> seeya* even
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[08:14] <eroomde> jcoxon: hello
[08:14] <eroomde> briefly - I have to drive home now, am away today. I think using churchill would be fine, in theory I cannot get the 52D key anymore but I can always ask nicely
[08:15] <eroomde> i wil be back in cambridge this evening
[08:15] <jcoxon> okay
[08:15] <eroomde> brunch is saturdAYS ONLY
[08:15] <jcoxon> great
[08:15] <eroomde> whoops
[08:15] <jcoxon> oh well
[08:15] <jcoxon> pub lunch then
[08:15] <eroomde> :D
[08:15] <jcoxon> you up for mission control?
[08:15] <eroomde> fine, keen
[08:15] <eroomde> yep for sure
[08:15] <eroomde> what direction is it heading?
[08:15] <eroomde> is it still a floater?
[08:15] <jcoxon> its heading towards oxford
[08:16] <jcoxon> if it super-pressures
[08:16] <eroomde> ok. mission control is the ideal place then
[08:16] <jcoxon> yup
[08:16] <jcoxon> do i need to email anyone?
[08:16] <eroomde> hmm actually i just thought 'gosh we might upset curchill supervisors trying to use it' and then remembered that most of them are friends of mine and/or in my year!
[08:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:17] <eroomde> I can email churchill iuw
[08:17] <jcoxon> yes please
[08:17] <jcoxon> if not that gives us time to relocate
[08:17] <eroomde> 'm sure it'll be fine
[08:17] <jcoxon> better safe then sorry :-p
[08:17] <eroomde> :)
[08:18] <jcoxon> thanks eroomde for doing that
[08:18] <jcoxon> added a temp sensor
[08:18] <jcoxon> so lots of useful info
[08:19] <eroomde> jcoxon: what do you think to: htpc, backup box, git server, media storage, and remote listening station controller all in one? http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=33329&tid=frooct
[08:22] <jcoxon> gosh that is good
[08:22] <jcoxon> i had that in mind for a projcet
[08:22] <jcoxon> to use my apple G5 case i still have
[08:26] <eroomde> oh do
[08:26] <eroomde> and the nvidia ion is quite happy to do 1080p youtube videos all day long
[08:27] <eroomde> which is cool
[08:27] <jcoxon> its in my list of projects
[08:28] <jcoxon> right i better setup my solar panel test
[08:29] <jcoxon> even if it can't charge the battery fully it'll slow the drain
[08:29] <eroomde> yep, I must get home
[08:29] <eroomde> catch you later
[08:29] <jcoxon> safe journey - keep me updated with 52D
[08:30] <eroomde> willdo
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[08:36] <Upu> eroomde can I recommend the Asus Revo ? I use one and its great, CCL generally deal in the "tat" end of the computer market
[08:36] <Upu> morning by the way
[08:37] <jcoxon> morning Upu
[08:37] <Upu> morning jcoxon, did you notice my message yesterday about me launching from Cambridge ?
[08:38] <jcoxon> yup, though being at work i think it got lost in the back of my head
[08:38] <jcoxon> i don't run the show regarding the launch locations
[08:38] <Upu> ok who would I speak too ?
[08:38] <jcoxon> will either need to talk with CUSF for a Churchill launch
[08:38] <jcoxon> or Steve (Rocketboy) for an EARS launch
[08:38] <Upu> ok thanks
[08:38] <jcoxon> they both have their advantages
[08:38] <Upu> hoping Rob comes back on the scene before my bits turn up
[08:39] <jcoxon> ears is more rural so out the way
[08:39] <jcoxon> but churchill has cover
[08:39] <Upu> ok ta
[08:40] <Upu> still no parachute turned up
[08:41] <Upu> anyway good luck for tommorrow, I'll see if I can pick you up from here :)
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[08:48] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kpwdViSrZA&feature=player_embedded#
[08:50] <Upu> didn't Rob get involved with that
[08:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:54] <Elwell> eroomde: +1 for ionitx
[08:54] <Elwell> am running one here
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[08:57] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch 2"
[09:03] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: if we wanted to could we operate Flossie from Churchill tomorrow?
[09:13] <griffonbot> Received email: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville@btinternet.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Pico Launch 2"
[09:15] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, we are just waiting on permission from Chu
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[09:15] <jcoxon> as we might have to relocate
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[09:16] <jcoxon> i've left it quite late to ask them
[09:16] <jcoxon> if not we can launch from any where really
[09:16] <earthshine> morning
[09:18] <jcoxon> morning earthshine
[09:19] <earthshine> What time you planning on launching today James ?
[09:19] <jcoxon> tomorrow
[09:20] <jcoxon> 0900 - 1000
[09:20] <earthshine> ahh tomorrow
[09:20] <earthshine> good
[09:20] <earthshine> That means I can help track
[09:25] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: I was just thinking it would enable us to see the launch
[09:26] <Colin-G8TMV> but once Flossie is set up she is a pain to move (we have to empty all the kit out to clear the operating positions)
[09:27] <jcoxon> hmmm
[09:27] <jcoxon> do you have sites around cambridge that are better for ham stuff?
[09:28] <Colin-G8TMV> and if we are going to be active all day then power is nice to save the generator being on a lot
[09:28] <Colin-G8TMV> Yes, we regularly use two places. One up Worts Causeway (top of the hill behind Wandlebury Ring)
[09:29] <Colin-G8TMV> and a hardstand at Hardwick adjacent to the 428 exit roundabout
[09:29] <jcoxon> i see
[09:29] <jcoxon> its a tough one
[09:29] <jcoxon> 2 cons for using churchill
[09:29] <Colin-G8TMV> well Flossie has lots of battery capicity 2x 110Ah
[09:30] <jcoxon> 1) its not best placed
[09:30] <jcoxon> 2) i don't want to cause too much distruption
[09:30] <Colin-G8TMV> remember Flossie's antennas are 20 metres above ground
[09:30] <Colin-G8TMV> yeah, disruption might be a problem, especially if we want to stay into the evening
[09:31] <jcoxon> and the university is back
[09:31] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, back in 2 mins just have to move my car
[09:31] <Colin-G8TMV> ok
[09:33] <Elwell> Flossie?
[09:33] <Elwell> campervan?
[09:33] <Colin-G8TMV> http://www.camb-hams.com/flossie
[09:34] <jcoxon> shame we don't have a mission control
[09:34] <Elwell> nice
[09:35] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: what is needed for MC?
[09:35] <jcoxon> a warm room and internet
[09:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:35] <Colin-G8TMV> Flossie has both. We have a fan heater (run from the Gene) and Internet via a Wifi hotspot from a 3G phone
[09:36] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, let me have a think on this, are you guys keen for a day of tracking?
[09:37] <Colin-G8TMV> We consider both a definite requirement for /p operation during contests
[09:37] <Colin-G8TMV> I think so, but I need to check with the others because I'm not on Flossies insurance
[09:38] <jcoxon> i'm wondering if we place flossie on a hill we'd get a lot of good tracking done
[09:38] <Elwell> with a 60ft mast, do you have hydraulic outriggers on the van itself?
[09:38] <Colin-G8TMV> Elwell: no, but we have guys for the mast (2x 3)
[09:39] <Elwell> yeah, looking at the pics
[09:39] <Colin-G8TMV> That's a 21 ele for 2m I think in those pics
[09:40] <Colin-G8TMV> we don't usually worry about guys unless it's very windy or we know we will be on site for a long time
[09:40] <Colin-G8TMV> It only takes a couple of mins to drop the mast and rig them if required
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[09:42] <Elwell> nice setup
[09:43] <jcoxon> on a GP 1/4 wave antenna are 4 radials really necessary?
[09:43] <Colin-G8TMV> yeah, the Repeater Group got the outfit from the Uni when they didn't want it after it failed it's MOT
[09:44] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: yes, unless you make it a proper dipole
[09:44] <mattltm> Im loving Flossie.
[09:44] <mattltm> Great bit of free kit
[09:44] <Colin-G8TMV> 4 redials is the minimum - but why not use a ground plane instead
[09:44] <jcoxon> weight really
[09:44] <jcoxon> that said...
[09:45] <Colin-G8TMV> mattltm: well she cost us a good bit to get her through the mot and re-fitted
[09:45] <mattltm> I bet.
[09:45] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: use thinner wire
[09:46] <mattltm> jacoxon: The RS80 radiosonde uses 2 thin foil plates...
[09:46] <Colin-G8TMV> but the mast itself is worth about 4 times what we've spent I think
[09:46] <mattltm> An interesting setup
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[09:50] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/HPIM3469.jpg
[09:51] <mattltm> How about sticking cooking foil on the bottom and using it as a groundplane?
[09:52] <Colin-G8TMV> that works as long as you get good electrical contact to it - which can be difficult cause you can't solder it
[09:53] <Colin-G8TMV> but I suspect that the pico payload container is too small for an effective groundplane
[09:53] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, yes
[09:53] <mattltm> Ahh
[09:54] <jcoxon> i've done wire ground plane
[09:55] <Colin-G8TMV> I suspect something like 22 gauge piano wire would work, it's light and spingy enough to stick out
[09:55] <Colin-G8TMV> *springy
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[09:57] <jcoxon> okay - its now in the window
[09:58] <jcoxon> with solar panel connected
[09:58] <jcoxon> and the charge light has lit up
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[10:00] <Colin-G8TMV> charge light? - thats a waste of current!
[10:00] <jcoxon> i know!
[10:00] <jcoxon> but i ain't going in and removing it
[10:00] <Colin-G8TMV> oh, it's inside the panel?
[10:00] <jcoxon> its on the flight computer
[10:00] <Colin-G8TMV> Ah
[10:01] <jcoxon> it has a lipo charge section with an smd 1
[10:01] <jcoxon> max1555
[10:01] <Colin-G8TMV> does the telemetry include batt voltage or chargeing status?
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[10:01] <jcoxon> batt voltage
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[10:02] <jcoxon> that said as i rapidly prototyped it i could have chosen a bit better voltage divider :-p
[10:02] <Colin-G8TMV> maybe next time add a digital input driven from the charge led pin
[10:02] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:02] <jcoxon> i've actually run out of pins :-p
[10:03] <Colin-G8TMV> :(
[10:03] <jcoxon> its okay
[10:03] <jcoxon> this is only a prototype
[10:03] <jcoxon> this film pcb is just too fragile
[10:03] <Colin-G8TMV> switch to embed?
[10:04] <jcoxon> i'm using this: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/seeeduino-film-p-689.html?cPath=132_133&zenid=bc52bbf9e41c556b7cc9dbe14b09a142
[10:04] <fsphil> woo, it's actually charging?
[10:04] <jcoxon> it claims it is
[10:05] <jcoxon> the maths sort of works out
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> i recently found the 2.5mm*2.5mm arm cortex chips.
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> Insane
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> lpc1102
[10:07] <jcoxon> fsphil, even if its not completely charging it it'll take the load off
[10:07] <fsphil> that's true
[10:08] <jcoxon> and 'if' we make it over night then it'll help in the morning
[10:08] <fsphil> and it could mean it'll spring back to life a day or so after it drains completely
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> Do you properly shut down enough that you have 'no' load, and can come back?
[10:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:09] <fsphil> will it run without the battery, just of the panel?
[10:09] <jcoxon> yes and no
[10:09] <jcoxon> so the panel provides 100mA
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[10:09] <jcoxon> if the gps has a lock then it draws 65mA
[10:10] <jcoxon> however if it is searching for a lock it 'can' draw up to 120mAh
[10:10] <fsphil> ah, crazy voltage drop
[10:11] <jcoxon> so i could add code so it reads teh adc on start up and if its too low shunt the GPS into sleep
[10:11] <jcoxon> then total current is 20mA
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Why so high?
[10:12] <jcoxon> ublox don't actually have good power saving
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:12] <jcoxon> well their new firmware will
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Teeny p-channel FET to hard switch?
[10:12] <jcoxon> but right now all you can do is shut down the RF part of the GPS
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you said you were out of pins
[10:12] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, launch tomororw :-p
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:13] <fsphil> fet better for switching than a basic transistor?
[10:13] Action: SpeedEvil throws a p-channel FET at jcoxon.
[10:13] Action: SpeedEvil misses.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: sort-of.
[10:13] <fsphil> I know the transistor I was looking at using has a 0.3v drop
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: It means that you can get really low 'on' conductance easily
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[10:17] <m1x10> Hi all
[10:17] <m1x10> Im back :)
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[10:18] Action: Colin-G8TMV gets a spanner thrown in the works - I have to be somewhere at 11am tomorrow for half an hour
[10:18] <Colin-G8TMV> still ought to be able to organise things though
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[10:19] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[10:20] <fsphil> morning m1x10
[10:26] <jcoxon> fsphil, oh and also its a cloudy day
[10:26] <jcoxon> hopefully if we are above the cloud level that'll help
[10:27] <fsphil> that's good, must be still putting out a good voltage
[10:29] <m1x10> fsphil: Just found that 644p comes with an internal 8mhz oscillator.
[10:29] <m1x10> isn't it useful for us?
[10:30] <fsphil> makes the circuit simpler, but you'll have problems working at your high baud rates
[10:36] <m1x10> it might worth to try it
[10:36] <m1x10> maybe the internal 8mhz wont harm the 115200 baud
[10:36] <fsphil> definitely, it's free to try :)
[10:36] <m1x10> yeah :0
[10:36] <m1x10> :)
[10:36] <fsphil> just be careful setting the fuses :P
[10:36] <m1x10> yes
[10:36] <m1x10> I know
[10:37] <m1x10> the last days in the camp I was reading the printed avr datasheet :)
[10:40] <m1x10> fsphil: http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs007.snc6/165784_1567114902610_1377549819_1337320_167858_n.jpg :p
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[10:53] <fsphil> where's the kaboom? :)
[10:53] <m1x10> what's this? :p
[10:54] <fsphil> replace the explodey bit with a camera, you'd get some epic video from that thing :)
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[10:57] <fsphil> nice, this gpsbee + antenna is actually 1 gram lighter than the fsa03
[10:58] <m1x10> yeah
[10:59] <m1x10> i just solved the strange clocking problem with the 3rd uart
[10:59] <m1x10> I wired the GND
[10:59] <m1x10> :)
[10:59] <fsphil> *muhahaha*
[10:59] <m1x10> I think someone here told me to do that!
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[11:02] <m1x10> its so nice to have a modular 3rd uart
[11:03] <m1x10> costs just 15$ and its easy to implement
[11:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman <billings.stephen75@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Festival appearance"
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[11:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman <billings.stephen75@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Pico Launch 2"
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[11:35] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/134995
[11:37] <fsphil> it's working well
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[11:38] <m1x10> yeah
[11:39] <m1x10> I also have 2 other devices on the SPI bus
[11:39] <m1x10> and everything is ok
[11:41] <fsphil> looks like the strong winds are coming back: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0ad8e626b5b8ff0e04e9c5d4887ed1ad6d93d76a
[11:42] <Colin-G8TMV> yup, looks like a launch from near Ballymena would give you a better chance of a dry landing
[11:43] <fsphil> that's where I pick up the helium so that'd work out quite nice :)
[11:44] <fsphil> hoping the winds will calm down before launch, though I don't think its likely
[11:44] <Colin-G8TMV> did you ever get the previous one back?
[11:44] <fsphil> not yet
[11:44] <Colin-G8TMV> got good coordinates?
[11:45] <fsphil> I think the predicted spot is accurate to within a few km
[11:45] <Colin-G8TMV> oh, not much chance of finding it by searching then
[11:46] <fsphil> it would be a pretty lucky find -- though I might nip over in the summer if nobody else has found it by then
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[12:06] <Colin-G8TMV> right, Maplin, Tesco then lunch - bbl
[12:29] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: RT @jamescoxon: PicoAtlas 2 launch Sunday 10:00UTC #atlasballoon - 434.072Mhz RTTY - tracking very welcome - hopefully super-pressure th ... [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/31328099958263808]
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[12:51] <jcoxon> estimated trajectory for tomorrow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5397441739/
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[12:54] <fsphil> nice, don't think you could ask for better
[12:59] <jcoxon> have now been running for 3hrs
[12:59] <jcoxon> have dropped voltage from 4.12 to 3.91
[12:59] <fsphil> what's the cut-off?
[13:00] <jcoxon> about 3v
[13:00] <jcoxon> but remember the first 2 hours are continous txing
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[13:00] <jcoxon> so power saving will be come increasingly useful
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[13:00] <jcoxon> e.g. currently its drawing about 60mA
[13:01] <jcoxon> but after 1900 it'll draw 20mA
[13:01] <fsphil> assuming the voltage drops steady, should run for another 13 hours
[13:02] <jcoxon> i'm hoping it won't be steady
[13:02] <jcoxon> it should decrease
[13:04] <jcoxon> at least i hope it will
[13:04] <jcoxon> as 13hrs ain't going to clear the night
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[13:08] <fsphil> well dropping to 20ma will do the trick
[13:09] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:30] <Darkside> haha watching the paper plane video
[13:30] <Darkside> nice
[13:31] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[13:31] <Darkside> HAHAHA
[13:31] <Darkside> i see dl-fldigi and #highatitude in the video
[13:31] <Darkside> hahah
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[13:32] <Darkside> was that icarus?
[13:32] <NigeyS> link ?
[13:32] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApM4BGG8r40&feature=player_embedded
[13:36] <NigeyS> haha awsome
[13:37] <Randomskk> hah, sweet video
[13:37] <Darkside> whoever that was was in here
[13:38] <Randomskk> yea
[13:38] <Darkside> and was using dl-fldigi
[13:38] <NigeyS> wonder who .. hmm
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[13:39] <Elwell> excellent vid
[13:39] <Randomskk> _cr3 and co
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[13:39] <NigeyS> jcoxon, you get the temp sesnsor connected up ?
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[14:58] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: Updated #dlfldigi ppa (https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive/dl-fldigi) to r115 #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/31365626085777408]
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[15:04] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: RT @sbasuita: Updated #dlfldigi ppa (https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive/dl-fldigi) to r115 #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/31367154800529410]
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[15:05] <jcoxon> fsphil, 3.83v
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[15:06] <mattltm> Yes. Just fixed my PC.
[15:06] <mattltm> Damm machine!
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[16:03] <chembrow> does anyone have an up to date TinyGPS library? The one linked to from the picoatlas page doesn't have the navstatus() referred to
[16:04] <jcoxon> yeah i do
[16:04] <jcoxon> just to say - i find that my ublox is unreliable in returning navstatus
[16:04] <chembrow> OK
[16:04] <chembrow> can you email it to me please?
[16:04] <jcoxon> for example my payload has a lock
[16:04] <jcoxon> but navstatus returns 0
[16:04] <chembrow> ah. how do you check for a lock then?
[16:05] <jcoxon> more then 3 sats
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[16:05] <chembrow> BTW, the gpsbee arrived this morning. Thanks for sorting that
[16:05] <chembrow> OK, will try that instead then
[16:05] <jcoxon> but the way the code is - it doesn't matter
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[16:05] <jcoxon> as it transmits what ever it has
[16:06] <chembrow> I just want to pick it up to set a LED status
[16:06] <chembrow> I'm transmitting regardless
[16:07] <jcoxon> done
[16:07] <chembrow> thanks
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[16:16] <fsphil> the lock field is unreliable?
[16:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:18] <jcoxon> i haven't really investigated
[16:19] <fsphil> I better keep an eye on that, my code drops lines there the lock field is <= 0
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[16:23] <chembrow> I'm just having issues reading the damned thing with new soft serial
[16:23] <chembrow> works fine in a standalone sketch
[16:24] <chembrow> but not in my main sketch
[16:24] <jcoxon> tinygps and newsoftserial are written by the same guy
[16:24] <jcoxon> so should work
[16:24] <chembrow> for some reason it's not pulling in a complete line
[16:24] <chembrow> so it can't parse it
[16:24] <jcoxon> oh
[16:24] <jcoxon> i know
[16:25] <jcoxon> what gps?
[16:25] <jcoxon> ublox?
[16:25] <chembrow> yeah. gpsbee
[16:25] <jcoxon> okay
[16:25] <jcoxon> you need to turn off the nmea
[16:25] <chembrow> have done
[16:25] <jcoxon> as you are filling the buffer
[16:25] <jcoxon> oh
[16:26] <chembrow> i'm sending the pubx00 command, then reading the response
[16:26] <jcoxon> like in pico atlas?
[16:26] <chembrow> the read loop is set to try and read for up to 5s;
[16:26] <chembrow> yup, just like
[16:26] <chembrow> it reads the first part of the line then hangs till the 5s is up, not getting any more data
[16:27] <jcoxon> strange
[16:27] <jcoxon> does it work with the hardare serial?
[16:27] <chembrow> not tried that yet, hoping not to have to go there
[16:28] <chembrow> it works fine with my external GPS, but that runs at 4800bps, so I wonder if it's a baud rate issue
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> http://m.plixi.com/p/73294801
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Geography is hard
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[16:40] <mattltm> Egypt fail!
[16:40] <mattltm> I just came home from Egypt on Tuseday.
[16:40] <Randomskk> fairly good timing
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> So - incitement successful then?
[16:42] <Randomskk> should have put some HABs up, get some great photos
[16:47] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Yup. Mission accomplished :)
[16:48] <mattltm> Athough some guy did have a heartattack on the plane :(
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> :/
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[16:49] <mattltm> Had to land at Rhodes.
[16:49] <mattltm> He's OK though.
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[16:57] <fsphil> just filled up a small foil birthday balloon with some of the helium left from hadie:2 -- about 40cm wide, almost no lift at all :)
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[17:02] <Randomskk> hehe
[17:02] <Randomskk> I'm mostly amazed they manage their own self weight
[17:02] <fsphil> agreed
[17:02] <jcoxon> awesome 3.76v
[17:03] <fsphil> that's impressive
[17:03] <fsphil> should manage the night just fine
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[17:07] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[17:08] Action: Laurenceb_ is confused
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[17:08] <Laurenceb_> i have a signal that gets zero padded, then i take hte fft
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> how is the fft changed by the zero padding?
[17:10] <Randomskk> well like
[17:11] <Randomskk> imagine a signal that was 111111111111111111
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> i though it was equivalent to upsampling the fft coefficients
[17:11] <Randomskk> its spectrum is just a lot of DC
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> but i cant make it work
[17:11] <Randomskk> now imagine it's 0000111111111111
[17:11] <Randomskk> suddenly a step
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[17:11] <Laurenceb_> sure - i realise its something to do with sinc upsampling the fft coeffcients
[17:13] Action: Randomskk has only studied continuous and not yet discrete fourier transform, probably can't be of much further use
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> test__f=fft(fft(test__)); test__f=ifft([test__f(1:8),zeros(1,16),-test__f(9:16)]);
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> if test__ is a 1x16 vector
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> that should be equivalent to the spectrum of test__ zero padded with 16 zeros
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> right...?
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> its not giving me the same result tho
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[17:14] <Laurenceb_> oh thats not right
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> test__f=fft(fft(test__)); test__f=ifft([test__f(1:9),zeros(1,16),-test__f(10:16)]);
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[17:15] <Laurenceb_> but it still doesnt work
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> every 4th phase is correct and every other amplitude
[17:17] Action: Laurenceb_ is doubly confused
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[17:43] <chembrow> yay, think I've got the gps working properly :)
[17:44] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Job-Lot-Off-Cuts-Large-Pallet-Load-Kingspan-Insulation-/280616699251?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item41560f0573
[17:44] Action: SpeedEvil wishes for an airship.
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[17:46] <Laurenceb_> kingspan is overpriced
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> extratherm ftw
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[17:47] <Laurenceb_> http://www.xtratherm.com/
[17:48] <NigeyS> hmm fldigi or my gps is going strange :|
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[17:52] <GW8RAK> Is the Kingspan insulation better than just polystyrene from B&Q?
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> about twice
[17:53] <Laurenceb_> british gypsum have some that is close to 3 times as good
[17:53] <GW8RAK> That's interesting as it is made nearby and they are one of the companies I want to approach for sponsorship
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[17:56] <Laurenceb_> are you in ireland?
[17:57] <GW8RAK> No North Wales. The factory is a few hundred yards from work
[17:57] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:57] <Laurenceb_> i thought it was made in ireland
[17:58] <GW8RAK> They have huge volumes of rejects and damaged boards. I was thinking that one would keep me going for years. But if other people want it.......
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> I actually want about - ideally - 350-400m^2 of 10cm.
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> what for?
[17:59] <GW8RAK> That's a big payload
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Walls, roof, floor
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> ah, thats massive
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Or have I got the numbers wrong
[17:59] <GW8RAK> Probably about right for a whole house
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[18:00] <SpeedEvil> no - about right
[18:00] <m1x10> Hi again
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[18:00] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's a decently full small lorry.
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/rZ2Je.jpg
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> thats my house with xtratherm dry lining
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> 65mm xtratherm with timber framing set out from the walls
[18:02] Action: SpeedEvil imagines taking a massive insulation boat through the canals, to kirkcaldy dock
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> Well - the beach actually
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> They have 3* insulation? What?
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> you think thats thin?
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> ?
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> I mean - what's the above british gypsum product
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> And yes - 65mm would be quite adequate.
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> 65mm xtratherm iirc
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[18:04] <SpeedEvil> 100 would make it easy, as I wouldn't need to be so careful about heat leaks
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> british gypsum isulated plasterboard was used in some places
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> i used it where it needed to be as thin as poss
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> I remembered the insulated plasterboard to all be slightly not as good as kingspan
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> british gypsum insulated plasterboard is a bit better
[18:05] Action: SpeedEvil is depressed about 'Green Deal'
[18:05] <mattltm> Why is spacenear showing Icarus?
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> In a way - it's _exactly_ what I've been advocating.
[18:05] <jcoxon> so one put it through
[18:05] <jcoxon> its test data
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> In another way - if you take it up - you have to get it professionally installed - which will be a ridiculous price.
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah - i did most of the work myself
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> And then you can't save meaningful amounts on energy for 25 years
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> iirc about £1.5K on xtratherm
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> If it takes off, which it probably won't - it has massive implications for the UK economy as a whole. Reducing imports of oil, and need for forex is a massive good thing going forward.
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[18:08] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[18:08] <SpeedEvil> As indeed are the 'zero carbon' homes that are being mandated.
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[18:08] <Laurenceb_> its not so simple designing dry lined walls to building regs - that design in the photo has a foil tape moisture control layer
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> Vapour barriers here too
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> also the pink foam is fire retardent - to stop flames spreading behind
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> Getting it contiguous is hard.
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[18:09] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm mostly ignoring fire, by controlling ignition.
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:10] Action: Laurenceb_ has building control officers round, so had to do it by the books
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> I'm doing it by the spirit of the regs basically.
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> Or attempting to.
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> As most of them are sane.
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> its a 1700s house, so no damp proofing, so the walls get really damp
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[18:11] <Laurenceb_> the timber framework is mounted on M4 stainless bar thats epoxied into the wall
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Same here.
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[18:11] <Laurenceb_> so hopefull itll last a good while
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Well - not same there
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> I've used CCA timber, concreted into holes in the walls.
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> It's not really damp here, fortunately
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> interesting
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[18:13] <SpeedEvil> m4 bar does sound interesting.
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> But a lot of the walls here are very soft sandstone
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> Though some are granite/scrith.
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/PPuAF.jpg <-same room now
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> or when i finished last summer
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> decorating took _ages_
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> Nice.
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[18:18] <Laurenceb_> cant remember if ive posted these photos before
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[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Don't recall seeing the latter.
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/BPWzh.jpg
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> kitchens probably the most impressive :P
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Looks good.
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Real beams, or fake?
[18:24] <Laurenceb_> doing the fake beams took ages
[18:24] <Laurenceb_> mostly fake
[18:24] <Laurenceb_> one over the fireplace is real
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> the other two have steel beams built into them
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> yeah - wood is bendy!
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> and take brick walls of the origional house - so it could all become open plan
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Living there?
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> no - need the money from renting it out atm
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
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[18:28] <Elwell> love the sag in the brickline on the fireplace
[18:29] <Laurenceb_> heh the old mortar was disintegrating a lot
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[18:30] Action: Elwell should step away from IRC and carry on with flat renovation.
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[19:25] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Virginmedia would seem to be being bouncy tonight...
[19:30] <NigeyS> just a bit
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[19:38] <LazyLeopard> Then again, could just be this is a rather quiet channel tonight....
[19:39] <Randomskk> it is a bit quiet
[19:39] <LazyLeopard> Everyone getting an early night in order to be up at sparrow for tracking tomorrow... ;)
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[20:15] <jcoxon> right time to finish the payload
[20:17] <Randomskk> did anything get sorted wrt chu?
[20:17] <jcoxon> ed emailed them
[20:17] <Randomskk> okay
[20:17] <jcoxon> he'll be back on tonight i think
[20:18] <jcoxon> take it from there
[20:18] <Randomskk> is he planning to be there?
[20:18] <jcoxon> yes
[20:18] <Randomskk> cool, okay
[20:19] <Randomskk> what time are you gathering at chu?
[20:20] <jcoxon> 9
[20:20] <jcoxon> i can pick you up from selwyn
[20:20] <jcoxon> if you wan
[20:20] <jcoxon> t
[20:22] <Randomskk> would save quite a lot of time walking there if it's not out of your way
[20:23] <jcoxon> on my way
[20:23] <Randomskk> that'd be really great then. do you have my number?
[20:23] <jcoxon> nope
[20:23] <Randomskk> msg'd
[20:23] <Randomskk> what kinda time at selwyn then?
[20:25] <jcoxon> 8:50
[20:26] <jcoxon> just to warn you - my payload looks awesome
[20:26] <jcoxon> well it will
[20:26] <Randomskk> it will be hard pressed to top the last one
[20:27] <Randomskk> shall I bring my proper camera?
[20:27] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:27] <Randomskk> alright, will try to remember, then can get some fairly nice photos. ooh, telephoto lens
[20:27] <Randomskk> to be honest though it moves away so fast it's probably not worth it
[20:28] <jcoxon> low cloud cover too
[20:28] <Randomskk> indeed
[20:30] <jcoxon> lesson of the day - hot glue guns are hot
[20:30] <jcoxon> and metal conducts
[20:31] <Colin-G8TMV> lol
[20:32] <Randomskk> hehe
[20:32] <Randomskk> right, bbl
[20:32] <Randomskk> see you tomorrow at 8.50 jcoxon :P
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[21:03] Nick change: help -> Guest29241
[21:04] <jcoxon> so with really good insulation it tops the scales at 95g
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> photos?
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> thats light
[21:05] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A0769D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:06] Action: Laurenceb_ is trying to use gnuplot over ssh with X forwarding
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> epic fail
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> when trying to rotate 3D surface plots
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[21:12] <LazyLeopard> Heh! Had to try running X over ssh on dial-up once upon a time. Gives a whole new meaning to th eterm "interactive" ;)
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[21:13] <Elwell> or ssh over 9600
[21:14] <Elwell> you soon remember all the editor shortcuts
[21:15] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
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[21:20] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5399202924/in/photostream/
[21:22] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Found mini USB cables for the NearSpace flight computer kits. These are for the camera cables, makes for a more complete kit. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/31462256466206721]
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[21:23] <Laurenceb_> nicee
[21:25] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: Cute ;)
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[21:26] <GW8RAK> Mini USB cables. The phone I am trying to interface to uses a mini USB connector for AT commands. There is a Vcc on the pinout, but I can't measure any voltage on it when the phone is on. Is it for power input to charge the battery?
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[21:27] <Colin-G8TMV> GW8RAK: probably. Does the phone charger use that socket?
[21:28] <GW8RAK> Not normally. There is a separate charging socket.
[21:28] <GW8RAK> I don't mind blowing up a processor, but I can't afford to kill a phone
[21:31] <DanielRichman> GW8RAK: usb has 4 pins and a shielding; vcc, gnd, d+, d-
[21:31] <DanielRichman> vcc and gnd are power supplied by the usb host (the pc) for the usb device
[21:32] <GW8RAK> Okay, thanks. That answers that question. Back to the soldering iron.
[21:32] <DanielRichman> GW8RAK: are you trying to send at commands to a phone, from an atmega, over usb?
[21:32] <NigeyS> jcoxon, how's everything with the solar panel?
[21:33] <GW8RAK> DanielRichman, yes AT commands to the phone from a Picaxe
[21:33] <DanielRichman> eeh
[21:33] <DanielRichman> the usb procol is hard to implement
[21:33] <DanielRichman> I wish you good luck ;)
[21:33] <GW8RAK> No USB involved; it's just the type of connector used
[21:33] <DanielRichman> Oh
[21:33] <DanielRichman> right ;)
[21:34] <DanielRichman> it would be incredible if you did manage to write a usb driver
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[21:34] <GW8RAK> Doesn't look difficult as someone has already done it with this phone.
[21:34] <GW8RAK> But I'll decide if it is difficult once I've got it working.
[21:34] <NigeyS> evening RocketBoy
[21:34] <GW8RAK> The interface is standard serial
[21:35] <RocketBoy> yo NigeyS
[21:35] <NigeyS> is yours a pico payload too ?
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> helo RocketBoy
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> *hello
[21:37] <RocketBoy> its about 75g - so yes pico like - different to jcoxon's
[21:37] <RocketBoy> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:37] <NigeyS> 75 :o crikey thats super tiny :|
[21:37] <jcoxon> mine has gone up in weight a bit
[21:37] <jcoxon> its 95g
[21:37] <jcoxon> that includes insulation and solar panels
[21:38] <NigeyS> whats the solar panel weight ?
[21:38] <RocketBoy> cool
[21:38] <jcoxon> 17g
[21:38] <NigeyS> ahh
[21:38] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5399202924/in/photostream/
[21:39] <RocketBoy> jcoxon - ill be delaying my flight to later next week - but i'll b there tomorrow
[21:39] <jcoxon> okay
[21:40] <jcoxon> eek more pressure on me now :-)
[21:40] <jcoxon> that said its been working well today
[21:42] <RocketBoy> yeah - I have just run out of time to complete by tomorrow - and experience has shown its best not to rush a payload
[21:42] <jcoxon> hehe yes
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> yes true
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy I once saw such a rushed and overcomplicated payload
[21:43] <RocketBoy> any idea what current the solar pannels will support?
[21:43] <jcoxon> at peak 100mA
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> the group conducting the flight streamed the results live on a website
[21:43] <RocketBoy> woo - nice
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> but the sensors showed all static values
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> like "Battery Temperature 8160°C"
[21:44] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: yeah - test test test & test again I say
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[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:44] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, ran it today in the window, cloudy and it did a bit of charging
[21:44] <jcoxon> certainly helped maintain the voltage levels
[21:45] <Colin-G8TMV> So only one balloon tomorrow?
[21:45] <jcoxon> yup
[21:45] <jcoxon> well one flight
[21:45] <RocketBoy> cool - well - perhaps its better to get the experience of your payload before launching mine anyway
[21:45] <jcoxon> haha
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> when will you fly?
[21:46] <NigeyS> your the guniea pig james :P
[21:46] <jcoxon> i prefer trailblazer
[21:46] <Colin-G8TMV> it's going to set the road on fire?
[21:46] <RocketBoy> I'll see if I can stream the launch
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah nice
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> what time?
[21:46] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, that would be nice :)
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[21:47] <RocketBoy> 10:00 GMT methinks
[21:47] <jcoxon> yeah meet at 0900
[21:47] <jcoxon> aim for 1000
[21:47] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, still waiting on chu so may have to relocate
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> by the way
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> the ultimate challenge would be a "target flight"
[21:48] <Colin-G8TMV> jcoxon: I'm still waiting on other camb-hams re organising Flossie
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> launch a HAB and let it land at a certain spot
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[21:48] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, thats just a matter of waiting
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[21:48] <Colin-G8TMV> It's called a spot landing competition
[21:48] <jcoxon> waiting a long time
[21:49] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: no problem
[21:49] <jcoxon> Colin-G8TMV, no worries - we'll just all be flexibile
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> because
[21:49] <Colin-G8TMV> will you be monitoring PY tomorrow?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> do you know which target I mean?
[21:50] <jcoxon> one of us will
[21:50] <Colin-G8TMV> ok, we can liase through there if needed
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah you wanna know the target I mean?
[21:50] <jcoxon> what target?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> Foster Ranch, New Mexico
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> but the launch must be made secretly
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> and boom
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> another debris field
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I read all that stuff about Project Mogul and Roswell and those people will never find agreement methinks
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> so I thought, give them another balloon
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[21:54] <jcoxon> i think you are going to cause a lot of trouble :-p
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD because of the new debris?
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[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> sorry with the boom I didn't mean charges or so
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[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I only meant that the debris would suddenly appear
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[22:03] <earthshine> evening
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[22:04] <jcoxon> G8KHW, do you have fill tubes etc?
[22:04] <jcoxon> or do we need to pop over to cusf?
[22:04] <jcoxon> cued*
[22:04] <G8KHW> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/xaben
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[22:05] <G8KHW> na - I have fill tubes (for ZP) and tools
[22:05] <jcoxon> cool
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> the videolink is ok
[22:06] <G8KHW> cool
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> yay :) hello :)
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello Zuph by the way
[22:19] <Zuph> Hola
[22:19] <Zuph> How are things this evening?
[22:19] <Zuph> White Star and Co. just got back from a launch site inspection at spaceport indiana.
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[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> is the Pad OK?
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[22:22] <Elwell> not baloons, but cool video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPQvTgD2quQ&feature=fvw view from booster on shuttle
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> and my status is good Zuph
[22:23] <Zuph> The pad is quite okay, though covered in two inches of snow right now.
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> so you have to get out the shovel before lauching
[22:27] <jcoxon> Zuph, i don't really understand your twitter launch stream
[22:27] <Zuph> jcoxon: It's just tweeting launch opportunities. Tyler and Dan weren't really clear on the announcement.
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[22:29] <Zuph> So, the most recent tweet: Launch Time(UTC):01-30@01 1399.43050972 Length: 34.0
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph and what are the objectives of the next launch?
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[22:30] <Zuph> 1-30 is the date, 01 is the time in UTC hours, 1399.43050972 is a number representing the "tightness" of the jetstream at various altitudes, and length is the number of hours it will take to get to europe.
[22:30] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Get to Europe!
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:30] <Zuph> For Hysplit predictions, "Europe" is defined as anywhere east of the prime meridian.
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:31] <jcoxon> okay, makes more sense
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> in the book "Double Eagle" was the sentence
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> "Iceland is considered Europe"
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is true but a flight Maine-Iceland is not really transatlantic
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> what do you say?
[22:33] <Zuph> Iceland definitely does not count.
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> I mean
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> Greenland belongs to Denmark
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> and Greenland is even closer to the US
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> that wouldn't be transatlantic at all!
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph I really hope the Atlantic will be flown one da
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> *day
[22:37] <Zuph> We hope to do it one day very soon.
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> what was the balloon again which almost made it?
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> Spirit of Knoxville 4 or so?
[22:38] <Zuph> Yep
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> do you think, Transpacific and Transindic will be possible too ?
[22:42] <Zuph> Depends on the weather :-p
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> Transpacfic would probably be Korea/Japan-USA
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> and Transindic Austraila-South Africa
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[22:53] <jcoxon> i've done cross-channel
[22:53] <jcoxon> :-p
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[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :D
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if Transamerican would be possible
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> due to all the air traffic
[22:58] <jcoxon> very much so i suspect
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> but well, a balloon at 30 km should be no danger for airliners at 10 km
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> accordingly, FAA should allow it
[22:58] <Zuph> But the air at 30km is a lot slower :-p
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I mean you know the ultimate thing
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> RTW flight
[23:00] <Zuph> If you're above 18km, you're above controlled airspace in the US.
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> that is good to know
[23:03] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/3umz0s
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
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[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> what's ZETA?
[23:06] <Zuph> An experimental fusion reactor, IIRC.
[23:06] <Zuph> The first, maybe?
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that should be the first
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[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> is Colin-G8TMV still here?
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph?
[23:29] <Zuph> pong
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> will you have experiments on the flight?
[23:30] <Zuph> The balloon itself is an experiment :-p
[23:30] <Zuph> We'll be testing some theories we have on helium heating effects, cloud formation, dew point, etc.
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:30] <Zuph> Yep
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> and you'll have some sensorics on-board?
[23:31] <Zuph> ?
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah like a thermometer and so on :)
[23:31] <Zuph> Yep, tons
[23:31] <Zuph> Check out our wiki, wiki.whitestarballoon.com
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> thank you :)
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> the fortunate thing is that sensors are quite light today
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> but I found something interesting, I think in the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> about thermometers on floating balloons
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> they had a plot which showed that the thermometer was giving too high temperatures all the time and was spiking
[23:34] <Zuph> Yeah
[23:34] <Zuph> We saw that one
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> then they let the sensor hang down
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah nice
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[23:35] <Zuph> We're putting enviro shields on all our sensors, hoping to mitigate those affects.
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> and an aspiration fan could be important too
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> but that one eats power and mass of course
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> btw did you know that this problem dates back as far as Gay-Lussac's balloon flights?
[23:39] <Zuph> How about that.
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> Gay-Lussac and Biot were on the balloon
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> and Biot suddenly came to mind that the sun should falsify the temperature readings
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> so he held his handkerchief in front of the thermometer to take readings
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[23:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Very nice Lunar_Lander
[23:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm very concerned about the solar temp measurements
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Particularly in the helium
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> me too
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> we should try to obtain info from other flights
[23:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I really would like an aspirator on that
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm very concerned about the design that our guy built for the solar shield on that, it's an aluminized mylar cone
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes, such cones can trap warmer air below them
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[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> by the way
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> is there a device to end the flight above europe?
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[00:00] --- Sun Jan 30 2011