highaltitude.log.20110125

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[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
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[01:27] <Dan-K2VOL> evening
[01:27] <Zuph> Evening
[01:28] <Zuph> How goes, Dan-K2VOL
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[01:31] <Zuph> Routing our Micro Sat board now, Dan-K2VOL. This is the densest board I've ever mangled together.
[01:31] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe, that's exciting, and can be really aggravating to move stuff around if you run into trouble
[01:32] <Zuph> Yeah. I'll let you give it the second go around :-p
[01:33] <Dan-K2VOL> are you doing 2 or 4 layer
[01:33] <Zuph> 2 layer. Can't do 4 layer flex boards anywhere that I know of.
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[03:41] <dsfg> hey can i ask a question
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[06:48] <Darkside> juxta_:
[06:48] <Darkside> ping
[06:48] <juxta_> hey Darkside
[06:48] Nick change: juxta_ -> juxta
[06:54] <Darkside> hey
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[10:43] <jcoxon> morning all
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[10:48] <fsphil> mornin jcoxon
[10:49] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
[10:50] <jcoxon> will bbl :-p
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[10:50] <fsphil> haha
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[11:57] <Laurenceb> http://www.thorlabs.com/NewGroupPage9.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=3255
[11:57] <Laurenceb> interesting
[11:57] <Laurenceb> didnt realise you could send so much power down a fibre
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> The medical people do it for their shiny cutters.
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> neat
[12:01] <Laurenceb> 2.3Kw pulsed O_o
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> 10ns is quite teeny though
[12:02] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what 446nm is.
[12:19] <fsphil> really really small?
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[12:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.thorlabs.com/thorProduct.cfm?partNumber=630HP
[12:21] <Laurenceb> signle mode is fairly cheap as well
[12:21] <Laurenceb> fibre optic gyros?
[12:25] <Laurenceb> itd need a fibre coupler as well http://www.thorlabs.com/thorProduct.cfm?partNumber=FC632-50B
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> How much to improve the performance of a $5 thingy though
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> Did you come to conclusions on how the lsm303s doubly-integrated accelleration wandered?
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> over reasonable times?
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[13:10] <fsphil> "High resolution QVGA display"
[13:10] <fsphil> hmm
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> 322*242
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[13:14] <staylo> hehe
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[13:37] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: i have adxl345 set up
[13:37] <Laurenceb> it wanders quite a bit due to drift
[13:38] <Laurenceb> the lsm302dl wanders ~0, but suffers due to 8 bit adc
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[13:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i saw a cc1111 based telemetry board today
[13:43] <Darkside> the telemetrum
[13:44] <Darkside> designed for rocket telemetry
[13:47] <Laurenceb> ooh
[13:47] <Darkside> designed by bdale
[13:47] <Darkside> and some others
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[13:47] <Laurenceb> the new analogue device arm devices look nice
[13:48] <Laurenceb> induilt ism transceivers
[13:48] <Laurenceb> *built
[13:48] <Darkside> cool
[13:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.altusmetrum.org/TeleMetrum/v1.0/cimg5974-crop.jpg
[13:48] <Laurenceb> hardcore
[13:49] <Laurenceb> ah taoglas ants
[13:49] <Laurenceb> im not keen on skytrac tho
[13:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.altusmetrum.org/TeleMetrum/v0.2/cimg5164-cropped.jpg <- it looks neat
[13:51] <earthshine> ANyone seen James lately ?
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[14:03] <fsphil> james was on earlier
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[14:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Buenas dias
[14:10] <eroomde> and up yours, Dan-K2VOL
[14:10] <eroomde> (I'm not being rude, it's a 'carry on' film reference. probably obscure enough to warrant the explanation)
[14:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha yeah never seen it
[14:14] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone here ever hack into quartz watches for mechanical motion sources?
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> umm - ?
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm thinking of using a 20cm square of mylar for a solar reflector and using quartz watch movements to rotate it back and forth
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> But the direction reversal is the sticking part
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> Two watches are OK, but not sure how to simply couple them to the mylar that allows one to slip when the other is driving
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> you don't need drection reversal
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> how do you want to track it?
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> And why not just use a couple of servos
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> Because it's for a balloon that needs to be super lightweight
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> And these are super lightweight stepper motors
[14:22] <Dan-K2VOL> for an automatic analog suntracker
[14:22] <Dan-K2VOL> to reflect light onto the solar panel
[14:25] Zuph (~bradluyst@lutz310-02.loutz.louisville.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> Mornin Zuph
[14:25] <Zuph> Mornin Dan-K2VOL
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> Brad, I had an interesting idea last night
[14:25] <Zuph> Oh?
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> That kept me up all frickin night googling to no avail
[14:26] <Zuph> hah
[14:26] <Zuph> Self control, Dan!
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> do you realize that it's impossible to find out how a quartz analog watch behaves when you push backwards on the hands via google?
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> It was too good
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> If it works&. It'll be amazing
[14:28] <Zuph> What's your thinking?
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Take a look at these passive solar trackers: http://www.compsolar.com/Applications_Tracker.htm
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> they use shade fins to shade one freon reservoir, while exposing the other, to move the solar panel with a piston until both reservoirs are heated equally
[14:29] <Zuph> Clever.
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> Yes, always admired the design since I read about it as a kid in Mother Earth News.
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> Now, replace those freon reservoirs with more strips of solar cells, connected to analog stepper motor circuit
[14:31] <Colin_> Darkside: I went to a talk by bdale about the design of his board - very interesting. It's just a bit expensive and doesn't cope with the altitudes we need for HABs.
[14:31] <eroomde> Colin_: is that the altus metrum?
[14:31] <eroomde> or whatever it's called
[14:32] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, and you have an all-altitude automatic 1-axis solar tracker. But steppers are too heavy, and it's probably not good to try to flex power wires for a year
[14:32] <Colin_> eroomde: yes
[14:32] <Colin_> Telemetrum?
[14:33] <eroomde> that's the one
[14:33] <eroomde> tbh they do nothing an arduino and an afternoon with a solderig iron won't do
[14:33] <Colin_> http://www.altusmetrum.org/TeleMetrum/
[14:34] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: What about something like this? http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8782
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph so instead, mount the panel facing straight up. Orient the rotation axis to horizontal
[14:34] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: I'd have thought the local swinging might be a bit too high frequency for such a system
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I really wouldn't rely on cock gears - especially watches - to deal with wind-loads
[14:34] <Colin_> eroomde: the latest version has pyro triggers for cutdown/chute ejection
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Speedevil, no, I wouldn't either, bear with me
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Also - a solar tracker is a solar tracker
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, use a circular mylar reflector
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> It is not a solar point-at-thingy
[14:35] <eroomde> Colin_: if you want bells and whistles I give you CUSF's latest flight computer, and one of the dodgier board layouts I have done, the Badger 2
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, way too high current
[14:35] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4362704812/in/set-72157621846323425/
[14:36] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I said something *like* that :-p
[14:36] <eroomde> that has 2 pyro channels (with built in continuity), 434MHz TX and RX, 2 GPS units, 3 axis acel, 3 axis mag, 3 axis gyro, high speed SD card logging, and a bunch of other bumph
[14:36] <eroomde> continuity checking*
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, gotcha. Mount the aluminized mylar reflector above the solar panel, so it can rotate up and down, on a level axis, to track sun altitude
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Balanced
[14:37] <Darkside> Colin_: heh
[14:37] <Colin_> eroomde: what's the processor?
[14:37] <Darkside> he was teaching us how to make rockets today
[14:37] <eroomde> ARM 7
[14:37] <eroomde> (LPC2368)
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> (ignoring yaw rotation for now) place those same shade fins and small strip of solar cells on the far and near ends of the power production panel
[14:37] <Colin_> so how much of that could be replaced by an mbed?
[14:37] <eroomde> the cpu
[14:38] <eroomde> almost a stright swap
[14:38] <eroomde> everything else is extra
[14:38] <Colin_> cost of the Badger2? and availibility?
[14:38] <eroomde> well, you could loose the JTAG connector too
[14:38] <eroomde> I'm not selling you one, sorry. It's too prototypy
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[14:39] <eroomde> wouldn't want to inflict that kind of pain on anyone
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> And connect them to quartz watch movements. Put a disc in place of the minute hand, and drive them at a high pulserate. The disc will just press against the axle of the mylar, and slip if there's a wind gust
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[14:40] <eroomde> Colin_: but if you want cheap and easy, I would say something based on mbed or arduino would be your best bets
[14:40] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, And if the wind does slip it, it will illuminate one end cell more than the other, and cause one of the watches to drive it back until met by equivalent illumination on the other end panel when it centers
[14:40] <Dan-K2VOL> You can drive the mechanisms at 60X normal rate, according to someone, and they take unbelievably little power
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I'm not meaning slip.
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I'm meaning strip the gears
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: It seems remarkably easier just to use a servo.
[14:42] <Laurenceb> lpc gives me a massive headache
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil, the point is to have a non-geared wheel to wheel contact that slips at less force than is required to strip the gears
[14:42] Action: Laurenceb finds stm32 slightly easier
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> and besides, you could easily put it inside a little clear balloon
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: clear plastic discolours with UV
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> almost invariably
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil, that's a pretty unscientific generalization, I think some plastic formulas would be offended :-P
[14:44] <Colin_> eroomde: well we want to do an mbed one as an example app.
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, the only gotcha I've had wracking my brain is how to allow the lesser powered one to slip while the higher powered one drives
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: It's not - most plastic will yellow.
[14:45] Nick change: Colin_ -> Colin-G8TMV
[14:45] Action: Colin-G8TMV gets fed up with the underscore
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HXT-500-5g-8kg-10sec-Four-Micro-Servo-/260685313050?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3cb20e341a - for example.
[14:49] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I think the concept has merit, but I don't think you'll be able to do it with clockwork. I also think it's way too complicated for our getup. We'll be able to make due just fine with a few small cells.
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph BTW the circular reflector will stay very flat using a fine springy wire for the rim
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[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL1> We'll see, the only way it would be very useful is if it works with quartz watch mechanics.
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL1> Zuph why don't you think it would work with the watches?
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> why would watches be of use?
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> What's the benefit?
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> BTW, our buddy Matt Mets from Make has a neat writeup on slaving a quartz wall clock to do an arduino's bidding : http://www.cibomahto.com/2008/03/controlling-a-clock-with-an-arduino/
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> The benefit of watches is that they draw extremely low power, and have a gearbox that should give them relatively useful torque (on the minute or hour hands)
[14:53] <Zuph> I think they won't have the strength to move the reflector. And if they do, on average, they won't be able to keep up with the movement of the reflector in the wind.
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> And they're super lightweight
[14:54] <Zuph> I mean, the failure mode is less sunlight than would be incident on the panel were it left to its own devices.
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> Zuph, I think they will when connected to the minute or hour hand
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> The torque is sharply limited by the gears.
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> Of course speedevil
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> The torque on the hour hand is not 3600* the torque on the second hand
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> err
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> 1440*
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> 720, even
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> However, since no one on the internets appears to have even tried to hook up anything to a watch hand for motion, I'd say none of us are qualified to decide until we've done some tests
[14:56] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: Last night, we were talking, seriously, about only needing .12 W-H per day. Remember those crappy solar cells we saw on ebay last night?
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL1: Sure, I'm qualified - I've open one, and seen the gears. They are _tiny_
[14:56] <Zuph> A single one of those cells would deliver the necessary output with only 30 sun-minutes per day.
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> Ah, i'll call you dynamometer eyes from now on SpeedEvil
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL1> nice Zuph
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> .12Wh/day = 2.5W or so cell needed. (scotland in winter)
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL1> I can't recall which cells
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL1> Oh the big pack
[14:58] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: 4 of those cheap cells gets us three times as much power per day as we need in the Scotland Winter, at only 24g.
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> Nice
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> This is for what sort of app?
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> You can't use bare cells unprotected in most climates
[14:59] <Zuph> Micro Superpressure balloon.
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> that may work
[14:59] <Zuph> We're hoping for months of float time.
[15:00] <Zuph> At this point, the only issue is boosting the cell voltage to something a battery charge circuit can use.
[15:00] <Laurenceb> months...
[15:00] <Laurenceb> what about helium diffusion?
[15:01] <Zuph> There are some mylar polymers with ultra-low diffusion rates.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> The cells are _hideously_ fragile
[15:01] <Zuph> Aerostar makes superpressures out of the same stuff, and they get months of float time.
[15:02] <Zuph> Granted, their superpressures can be half a million times larger than ours...
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: The amount of diffusion you can cope with in a small balloon is not the same as a large one
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> half a million times = 80 times the diffusion
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> surface area / volume
[15:03] <eroomde> so they'll fly it and see how long it lasts. it will be interesting.
[15:03] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Granted, but we still think we can get 60+ days.
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: Fun to try
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> Pinholes will be annoying
[15:04] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Even if we just get a reliable amateur superpressure envelope out of it, it'll be well worth it :-p
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> true
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> You making your own envelope from film?
[15:05] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Probably.
[15:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> Zuph, did you see the latest email from Gary Felix?
[15:06] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: Another one since yesterday?
[15:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> The one I forwarded late last night
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> Or thought I did, let me see if I did
[15:07] <Zuph> You didn't.
[15:08] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: The heptax he sells is considered pure gold by the amateur airship community, by the way.
[15:08] <Dan-K2VOL1> Oh really
[15:08] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: JAXA uses heptax for all their balloons, also, though maybe not the same polymer.
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[15:09] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: It's a trade name for a super-low-diffusion laminated plastic manufactured by a single company in Japan.
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[15:09] <Zuph> Also, Japan is very serious about their ballooning.
[15:09] <eroomde> heptax?
[15:09] <eroomde> we have like a 9km roll of it in the workshop
[15:10] <eroomde> not exaggerating
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> Long roll is long.
[15:10] <Zuph> buh.
[15:10] <eroomde> picked it up from a mothballed QinetiQ project
[15:10] <Zuph> How wide is it?
[15:10] <eroomde> about 2m
[15:10] <eroomde> maybe a smidge under
[15:10] <Zuph> buh.
[15:11] <Zuph> JAXA uses Heptax BH25 for all their superpressure balloons.
[15:11] <Zuph> See: http://www.phys.aoyama.ac.jp/crheu07/vg/Yoshida-Tetsuya.pdf
[15:11] <Zuph> Also, they're a lot more professional about their launches than CSBF/NASA.
[15:12] <eroomde> mmm
[15:12] <Zuph> They have launch facilities which allow them to inflate indoors, then slide the payload + inflated balloon outside for launch.
[15:12] <eroomde> I had a telecon quite recently with Danny Ball
[15:12] <eroomde> hr seemed a lot more timid than when I had one about 3 years ago
[15:12] <eroomde> that austrialia thing and the subsequent report have shaken them a bit
[15:13] <Zuph> heh
[15:13] <Zuph> No doubt.
[15:13] <Zuph> The accident report is quite an eye opener.
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL1> really eroomde, I sat down with him in his office 2 years ago for a tour of the CSBF. What did you guys talk about
[15:16] <eroomde> ExoMars parachute drop test in Sweden
[15:16] <eroomde> was interning at a subcontractor
[15:18] <eroomde> I'm not sure if that's evening happenig anymore, with ExoMars being rescoped every so often
[15:18] <eroomde> even happening*
[15:20] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: BRB, but I dumped the routed micro sat board in the dropbox. If we can cut the footprint by .05 inches in both directions, we can get them made cheap at Seeed.
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[15:21] <eroomde> do you have a physical drop box?
[15:24] <Zuph> hah
[15:24] <Zuph> No, I meant the eagle files
[15:24] <Zuph> Back earlier than I thought I would be, btw.
[15:24] <eroomde> would be awesome to have a physical drop box in the lab
[15:25] <eroomde> i might do that in our one
[15:25] <Zuph> heh
[15:27] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL1: what was the csbf facility like?
[15:27] <eroomde> it sounds awesome, i'd love to visit
[15:27] <eroomde> i got massive pangs of jealousy watching Blast! The Movie
[15:48] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: For the PCB, if we go with a flex circuit, we save only 1.3 grams, but more than double the cost.
[15:56] <Randomskk> diminishing returns here we come
[15:56] <Zuph> heh
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[15:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> Zuph how about thinner PCB
[15:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> Back
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[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> eroomde, the CSBF was very laid back and quiet
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> in the middle of nowhere
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> a handful of modest 1960s office buildings
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL1> Some larger electronics labs that were clearly not well funded recently, lots of old tools, a few microcontrollers, lots of rooms now in disuse
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL1> They no longer launch many balloons there
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL1> A control tower that is nearly completely abandoned in-place, it was like going to a museum up there, it's all just dusty racks of 1970s tracking equipment
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[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> Security devices were all bypassed, all gates open, all doors propped open, RFID card readers installed, but clearly not being used
[16:03] <Randomskk> kind of sad
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> The people were all kind of sad too
[16:03] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: Actually, crap. I was off on the calculation. Thinnest FR4 we can get is 4 grams. Flex circuit will be 2 grams. Standard weight (like for a Seeed prototype run) would be 8 grams.
[16:04] <Dan-K2VOL1> They were resigned to working away from civilization, near in a tiny rural texas town, and spending half the year being bored to death waiting for weather in antarctica
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[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL1> I was trying to get a job there at the time, by way of getting to know them first, and then applying for it, they all told me that there's no innovation to be done there, I would quickly become restless and bored and frustrated
[16:05] <NigelMoby> Afternoon guys
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL1> I think they're right
[16:05] <Elwell> Dan-K2VOL1: sadly sounds common in many 'unfashionable' labs :-/
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> They just barely scrape by with their 40 year old technology, tacking a new satmodem on now and then
[16:06] <Elwell> where fashion dictates funding
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> Replacing a controller with one based on a newer micro
[16:06] <NigelMoby> Jcoxon about?
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> Yeah elwell
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> It's worth a tour, and a launch would be cool to see, but you're at the forefront of the exciting part of ballooning already
[16:08] Action: Elwell used to work at dl.ac.uk -- just at the time that the replacement syncrotron got awarded to ral (diamond). Twas really rather sad.
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-/
[16:12] <Randomskk> :(
[16:17] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL1: sounds profoundly depressing!
[16:17] <eroomde> have you seen Blast! The Movie?
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL1> eroomde I think they showed snippets of it to me while I was there, or maybe it was a nova special
[16:18] <eroomde> it's worth seeing
[16:19] <eroomde> I really enjoyed it
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> Ah, here's a funny thing to come across while clicking a link: http://ai.tektonica.com/install.php
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> Nice
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'll look for it, I've forgotten I meant to watch it
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> SpeedEvil, Zuph - the watches can drive robot wheels directly: http://www.vandenbrande.com/wp/2003/07/nanorover/
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL1> So there's some indication of having a bit of torque
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Also - wasn't the above panel for a microballoon?
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> You need to be able to spin the mirror at least at 10RPM
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL1> SpeedEvil, what's got you so negative today
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> There is a difference between negativity, and pointing out that something is unlikely to work.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Also - the slowness of government and its agencies to process forms.
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL1> Which is intended to dampen scientific testing of innovative ideas
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> If someone suggests shaving their genitals with a bandsaw, it's not unreasonable to point out the flaws in the plan.
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> ah yes, and you might also try to gather some more info about the situation before offering said assumed flaws. The person might be a robot, for example
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL1> And a bandsaw might be needed for titanium pubes
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-P
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL1> Anyway, this is for vertical swing of the mirror, which needs to move at about 6 degrees per hour or so to acheive the 45° swing
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> On a stationary platform.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> A balloon is not stationary, and swings significantly
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> What kind of balloon are you referring to, and in what phase of flight?
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> The balloon type I'm considering mounting this on will be a small superpressure envelope, and it will be used while in stable float conditions, with the payload coupled the platform's roll pitch and yaw to the envelope's movement. In this configuration I think I can reasonably expect to have a moderately stable platform, with very little swing, except for occasional gusts
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I think you're overcomplicating it past a simple 4 sided solar panel in a pyramid shape
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[17:05] <The-Compiler> http://xkcd.com/281/ true, true...
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[17:24] <NigeyS> anone want to take this cold off me? :D
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[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> Edmoore u here?
[17:37] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1: ping his nick if you want his client to blink :-p eroomde
[17:37] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[17:37] <Zuph> Hey NigeyS
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL1> Haha zuph I thought you said ping his neck, and I was really trying to figure out wth that meant
[17:40] <NigeyS> lol
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[17:51] Nick change: Dan-K2VOL1 -> Dan-K2VOL
[18:05] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: yes
[18:06] <eroomde> Zuph: I run irc as a screen session on a remote server so infact i don't see a ping
[18:06] <eroomde> but you can do this:
[18:06] <eroomde> and that makes zeusbot send me an email
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> Eroomde, where did you get the 2m wide heptax from
[18:07] <eroomde> a mothballed QinetiQ project
[18:07] <eroomde> QinetiQ being a sort of private-but-public military contractor
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[18:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm not something that's commercially available eh
[18:13] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:13] <eroomde> i think we were in the right place at the right time
[18:13] <eroomde> i don't actually fully know what it is
[18:14] <eroomde> i think it's a few layers of very thin linearised polyethylene fused together
[18:14] <eroomde> but still very thin overall
[18:14] <Dan-K2VOL> It's aparently the ultimate shit
[18:15] <eroomde> The original gangsta
[18:15] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> evenin
[18:15] <eroomde> hey james
[18:15] <NigeyS> evening james
[18:15] <jcoxon> eroomde, launch on sat?
[18:15] <eroomde> am in w sussex i'm afraid
[18:15] <eroomde> dad's bday
[18:15] <eroomde> sunday works though
[18:15] <jcoxon> hmmm okay
[18:15] <jcoxon> we'll lets watch the weather
[18:16] <eroomde> jj:wq
[18:16] <eroomde> bum sorry wrong window
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> The polyethylene layer provides heat sealability, the biaxial nylon layers provide two axis tensile strength, and the EVOH provides a pinhole leak stop goo layer
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh a vi man
[18:16] <NigeyS> jcoxon, i think they sent the wrong gps module :|
[18:16] <jcoxon> so got all the parts for picoatlas - 43.6g without insulation
[18:16] <jcoxon> NigeyS, really?
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice weight jcoxon
[18:17] <NigeyS> model number doesnt match, looks like it maybe the 66 channel
[18:17] <eroomde> jcoxon: awesome
[18:17] <eroomde> and how many balloons?
[18:17] <jcoxon> not wired up of course so that'll add weight
[18:17] <eroomde> 3 bigguns, for fun?
[18:17] <jcoxon> 4 balloons
[18:17] <eroomde> oh wow
[18:17] <jcoxon> well i've ordered 4
[18:17] <NigeyS> 43.6 .. how?!?!
[18:17] <eroomde> you can get some serious altitude on that
[18:17] <jcoxon> this seeeduino film is awesome
[18:18] <NigeyS> ahh ure using the film this time..sweet!
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[18:43] Action: jonsowman pokes griffonbot
[18:44] <jonsowman> i think he is sad again
[18:45] <DanielRichman> really?
[18:45] Action: DanielRichman slaps griffonbot
[18:45] <jcoxon> he gets sad a lot
[18:45] <jcoxon> jonsowman, launch sat?
[18:45] <jonsowman> he didn't say anything about that recent
[18:45] <jonsowman> email
[18:45] <jonsowman> jcoxon: I'm not in cambridge this weekend, sorry
[18:45] <DanielRichman> I tried to fix most of the sadness last weekend
[18:45] <jonsowman> Randomskk may well be around though
[18:45] <DanielRichman> guess it's not all fixed yet
[18:46] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: @griffonbot : Wake up #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/29973377494024192]
[18:46] <DanielRichman> k well atleast twitter still works
[18:47] <jonsowman> jcoxon: another pico launch?
[18:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:48] <jonsowman> ah right, sorry
[18:49] <jcoxon> its okay
[18:49] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: the connection to the IMAP server appears to have died ~12 minutes ago. The timeout should have got it, but doesn't appear to have done.
[18:50] <jonsowman> ahh
[18:50] <jonsowman> I see
[18:50] <DanielRichman> I'll give it a little while to see if it does end up waking up, but if it doesn't, I'll see if I can change that
[18:50] <jonsowman> cool ok :)
[18:51] <jonsowman> at least twitter seems more reliable now
[18:51] <jcoxon> jonsowman, we might relocate the launch site to optimise teh flight path
[18:51] <jonsowman> fair enough, whereabouts are you thinking?
[18:51] <jonsowman> or just going to decide at the time dependent on weather?
[18:52] <jcoxon> yeah could do
[18:52] <jcoxon> will chat with steve
[18:52] <jonsowman> :)
[18:52] <jonsowman> sounds good
[18:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver <oliver.jones.digred@googlemail.com> "[UKHAS] Festival appearance"
[18:58] <DanielRichman> I had to do that manually :-X
[18:58] <jonsowman> hehe
[18:59] <DanielRichman> gdb remains awesome
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[19:11] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:14] <NigeyS> hey lunar
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> how's life today?
[19:15] <NigeyS> got a stinking cold, but all good
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, here the weather is cold
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> and it drizzles
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[20:22] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: picoatlas 2 - gpsbee + mini antenna + seeeduino film - working, total mass = 11.7g - now for the radio #atlasballoon [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/29997476580696065]
[20:22] <NigeyS> half the weight of my lipo .. meh :( :P
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:23] <jcoxon> i've mounted it quite well - am very pleased with myself
[20:23] <jcoxon> now the question is...
[20:23] <NigeyS> youve done bloody well to get the weight down dude
[20:24] <jcoxon> i;ve got a solar panel
[20:24] <jcoxon> this seeeduino has lipo charge capabilities
[20:24] <Zuph> heh, teach us your weight reducing ways, jcoxon :-p
[20:24] <NigeyS> hmm, that came up last night, i think it was a no go idea
[20:24] <jcoxon> so for 17g more i could add a solar panel
[20:25] <jcoxon> which would charge the lipo during the day
[20:25] <NigeyS> try it, if you get weight probs, take it off b4 launch ?
[20:25] <Zuph> jcoxon: What solar panel are you looking at?
[20:26] <jcoxon> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/05w-solar-panel-55x70-p-632.html?cPath=155
[20:26] <jcoxon> this is the one i've got
[20:27] <Zuph> Wow. All the epoxy covered panels we found weighed a ton.
[20:27] <fsphil> was thinking of solder + lipoly yesterday
[20:27] <fsphil> could run for weeks after landing
[20:31] <NigeyS> how much is a first class stamp? :|
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[20:53] <sbasuita> NigeyS: 41p
[20:55] <NigeyS> aha thanks, the 1's i bought just say 1st .. how unhelpful
[21:01] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Working on a presentation about the BalloonSat Extreme, an introduction, so to speak. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/30007248931524609]
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[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Jcoxon any photos
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[22:12] <Laurenceb_> powerfilm is worth looking at
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> highest power to weight by miles
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> printed solar cell?
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> thin film
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> that is great
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[22:25] <NigeyS> that was weird!
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> what happened?
[22:26] <LazyLeopard> ?
[22:27] <NigeyS> changed the frequency rate of the gps module and windows thought the ftdi cable was a serial mouse, sent my mouse all retarded
[22:27] <fsphil> that happened with a card reader in the office once
[22:28] <NigeyS> lol crazyness
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> so microjam of the old Knight Rider wasn't an invention but for real
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> btw NigeyS did you have a chance to read the text yet?
[22:32] <NigeyS> no, what's the link dude ?
[22:32] <NigeyS> fsphil, ive lost my sats now! lol
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[22:33] <fsphil> now now Lunar_Lander, give NigeyS back his satellites
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't take them
[22:33] <NigeyS> yeah cmon it took ages to find them !
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> http://winzenflyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/24/tracking-wb8elk-11/
[22:33] <NigeyS> tnx Lunar_Lander reading now :D
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
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[22:37] <NigeyS> good write up dude, i forgot to check where it actually landed so that was helpful :D
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD thanks :)
[22:37] <fsphil> the mermaids have it now
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> I showed it a student friend and said
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> "What happened to the banana on-board?"
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> he said
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> "It's being eaten by the common monkey fish now"
[22:39] <NigeyS> lol sharks ate it !
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:44] <fsphil> on hamtests, doing the mock intermediate exam -- got some odd answers to some of the questions
[22:45] <fsphil> "Your callsign is 2D0ABC. Whilst on holiday at a friends house in England you should use the callsign" ... 2E0ABC/A
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:46] <NigeyS> right bed time, nn guys !
[22:46] <fsphil> g'night nigey!
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[22:47] <Darkside> http://stream.followtheflow.org:8000/lca2011-F509
[22:48] <fsphil> spiffy
[22:48] <fsphil> that live?
[22:48] <Darkside> well, delayed a ittle
[22:48] <Darkside> but mostly yes
[22:49] <fsphil> wonder what kind of PC they're encoding that with, I could never get full-screen theora in real-time
[22:50] <fsphil> guy with early model eeepc on the right
[22:51] <fsphil> are you at the event?
[22:52] <juxta_> fsphil, Darkside and shenki are
[22:53] <juxta_> shenki is the guy running about in the yellow shirt ;p
[22:53] <fsphil> the stream's just died on me
[22:54] <fsphil> ah there we are
[22:54] <fsphil> I see them
[22:55] <juxta_> oh I see Darkside now too
[22:55] <fsphil> gaar, buffering
[22:56] <fsphil> who's that with them?
[22:58] <fsphil> died again
[22:59] <fsphil> aaand back
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[22:59] <fsphil> I do love you internet, but sometimes you suck
[22:59] <jcoxon> hmm this seeeduino film is fragile
[22:59] <jcoxon> (unsuprisingly)
[22:59] <fsphil> it looks it jcoxon !
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[23:00] <fsphil> hold on, this stream went back in time
[23:00] <fsphil> glitch in the matrix
[23:00] <juxta_> it's not running so well here either
[23:00] <juxta_> oh no
[23:00] <fsphil> ah I thought it was just me
[23:00] <juxta_> now the url 404's
[23:01] <fsphil> still running here, though it could just be from buffer
[23:01] <fsphil> yep, gone
[23:01] <fsphil> the stream's disappeared from the icecast page too
[23:02] <fsphil> I wonder if the buffering problem is actually at the conference
[23:02] <fsphil> got an empty room: http://stream.followtheflow.org:8000/lca2011-L101
[23:03] <juxta_> the first stream is back now
[23:03] <fsphil> ah, see it now
[23:04] <juxta_> ooh, lights dim
[23:04] <fsphil> buffering....
[23:04] <fsphil> it's the realplayer experience again :)
[23:05] <fsphil> woo, project horus
[23:05] <juxta_> oh no, it died on me! :(
[23:05] <StrayVoltage> Change the batteries in the wireless microphone. It's RF-farting.
[23:05] <StrayVoltage> :)
[23:05] <eroomde> there's a concept
[23:06] <fsphil> tux in space
[23:07] <fsphil> aaah this is impossible
[23:08] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5388227691/
[23:09] <jcoxon> now working on interfacing the radio
[23:09] <Randomskk> wow teeny
[23:09] <fsphil> that does look fragile, but seriously cool
[23:09] <jcoxon> yeah on hte right side is teh breakout bit - i've already managed to pull out 2 of those plate bits
[23:10] <StrayVoltage> Ok, that guy in a penguin suit is seriously freaking me out.
[23:10] <StrayVoltage> :|
[23:10] <juxta_> stream really isnt working so well here
[23:11] <fsphil> totally give up here
[23:11] <fsphil> I get a few seconds at best
[23:11] <fsphil> will check out the archive copy when it's up
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:14] <Darkside> ok
[23:14] <Darkside> the video didn't copy to the presentation computer properly
[23:14] <Darkside> or the usb key
[23:14] <Darkside> the video file is complete though
[23:14] <Darkside> we'll decide our plan of attach soon
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[23:15] <Darkside> attack*
[23:22] <Elwell> whats time over there just now?
[23:24] <Elwell> ah, found programme
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 26 2011