highaltitude.log.20110122

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[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> well
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[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> they have that FAA 101 exempt
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> I think that says that you can launch below 3 lbs or so
[00:06] <DrLuke> hi, does anybody know if there are is any significant wind in 30km height?
[00:06] <DrLuke> or is the air practically dead
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes, it can actually be very fast indeed
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> up to 200 kph in single cases
[00:07] <DrLuke> wow
[00:07] <NigeyS> yuhuh even faster sometimes
[00:07] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Specifically, one package up to 6 lbs, or two or more packages, totaling less than 12 lbs.
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah yeah
[00:07] <DrLuke> from which height can the wind expected to cease completely?
[00:07] <Zuph> DrLuke: It can move fast, but there isn't a whole lot of it :)
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the reminder
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> DrLuke: ~0.01mm or so
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke did you ever hear of the HARP project?
[00:07] <DrLuke> no
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> DrLuke: It does not ever stop all the way up
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> this used gun projectiles to test the atmosphere in the region between the max. altitude of balloons and the lowest altitude of satellites
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> and they found quite fast winds at altitude up to 130-150 km still
[00:08] <DrLuke> so a stationary balloon is impossible
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> yes unfortunately
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> You need a powered thing to stay stationary
[00:09] <DrLuke> damn, that would be totally awesome
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> Or a tether(s)
[00:09] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Those FAR Part 101 balloons can still be pretty mean. I have no doubt that if one were to get sucked into a jet engine, our hobby would be all by dead.
[00:10] <Zuph> *all but dead
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, true
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> but I read something
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> I think in the scientific ballooning handbook
[00:10] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Really, HABers need to seriously self-organize into organizations like the model rocketry guys have.
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> that the big balloons are made in such a way that a plane could smash through the envelope in case of collision
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> I agree
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> maybe with a fund or so for insurance in which all the members give into
[00:11] <DrLuke> or just add a transponder
[00:11] <DrLuke> and bright flashy lights
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> Approved transponders are _heavy_
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah or the obligatory radar reflector
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> and expensive
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> IIRC about 5Kg and $2000
[00:12] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: That's why the regs specify a 50 lbs breaking force from payload to envelope.
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[00:12] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: DrLuke: Even *non* approved transponders are heavy, expensive and power hungry.
[00:12] <Zuph> Although ADSB might change that.
[00:12] <DrLuke> hmm
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> but Zuph I had an interesting E-Mail from the reposible controller for my area
[00:12] <DrLuke> well, then bright flashy lights is the only way
[00:12] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Oh?
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> he said that radar reflectors are "not required by the DFS"
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> I think he is wrong on that
[00:13] <Zuph> DrLuke: Bright and flashy lights that can be seen by an airplane are heavy and power hungry
[00:13] <DrLuke> I've recently been in the tower of my local airfield, and they have the primary radar deactivated
[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but the on-board radar of planes is always on
[00:13] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: It doesn't surprise me. The "Radar Reflectors" that most ballooners make are completely invisible to ATC radarscopes.
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> you mean like that one
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> let me try to find a photo
[00:14] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Even still, DrLuke is right, most Air Traffic Controllers disable display of radar objects which *don't* have a transponder.
[00:14] <DrLuke> that's because it shows bird-swarms
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[00:15] <DrLuke> and sometimes there are big swarms of birds
[00:15] <Zuph> Our balloons don't have a radar profile much bigger than a goose under ideal circumstances, and you can be sure that Air Traffic Controllers don't want to see heavy waterfowl on their displays.
[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:15] <Zuph> So, the best thing you can do is be completely proactive with your local ATC tower.
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:16] <DrLuke> so, how do you guys do this? You just call the tower and tell them you're going to launch a balloon?
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> http://en.copernicus-project.org/galeria/17247_b.JPG
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> the reflector on the table is cardboard wit AL foil
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> *Al
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> which I doubt to reflect radar well
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> DrLuke in germany you have to call them up 8 working days in advance
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> and once again just before launch
[00:18] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Yeah, all the halfway decent *actual* test I've heard about for those things don't show up at all.
[00:18] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: is that a homemade reflector? or a real one
[00:18] <DrLuke> I found this picture: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/RESEARCH/RSD/main/castlebay/radar_reflector.gif
[00:18] <DrLuke> that's probably what it looks like on a radar screen
[00:18] <Darkside> we just get our reflectors from the met bureau launches >_>
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside as they told me, they made it themselves
[00:19] <Darkside> heh
[00:19] <Darkside> we get 2 free reflectors a day, if we want to hunt for them
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[00:20] <Zuph> DrLuke: In the US, you are advised to contact the local tower and file a NOTAM at least 24 hours in advance.
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside I just try to find a pic in which you can see their parachute
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> which also did not look very professional
[00:21] <Darkside> haha
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> http://en.copernicus-project.org/galeria/17207_b.JPG
[00:21] <Darkside> apparently the parachute company juxta uses is considering tailoring parachutes for HAB launches
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> spherachutes?
[00:21] <Darkside> no idea
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw the guy with the striped shirt
[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> he is of that radio for schools club
[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> and I said: "we have a 1.8 m parachute made by spherachutes inc. of colorado"
[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> he "uh-huh"
[00:22] <Darkside> lol
[00:23] <Darkside> i dont think the ones we use are 1.8m
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> I made that selection based on the chart that is around on UKHAS
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> and when I calculated myself, I get a vertical velocity of -3.5 m/s near the ground
[00:23] <Darkside> at linuxconf we're doing a tethered hoist of a G1 phone up to 100m on a 100g balloon, for a wifi phone project demp
[00:24] <Darkside> once we're done, i'm considering doing an impromptu aunch
[00:24] <Darkside> launch*
[00:24] <Darkside> i'm gonna have one of my payloads attached up there too, just in case something goes bad
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:25] <Darkside> but that way if something really goes to shit, we can chase it :P
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[00:25] <Darkside> now that'd be fun :P
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> I just see that my balloon with a balloon+payload weight of 3.5 kg is still considered to be "Light" under Polish law
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:26] <Darkside> 3.5KG!!!!!!!
[00:26] <Darkside> wtf
[00:26] <Darkside> wait, what size balloon
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> the 1500
[00:26] <NigeyS> what you launching, a house brick? :o
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:26] <Darkside> jeez man
[00:26] <Darkside> cut some weight!
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> don't worry
[00:27] <NigeyS> heres me stressing over 5 grams! lol
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> we won't launch that heavy
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> look
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[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> the thing I call "science data recorder" which is the µC connected to the sensors
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> it currently weighs (with the Li batts) 160 g
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> because it was originally made for a hanggliding backpack :P
[00:28] <NigeyS> brb
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[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[00:29] <Darkside> http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/01/21/exclusive-duke-nukem-forever-has-a-release-date.aspx
[00:29] <Darkside> oh my god
[00:29] <Darkside> hell has frozen over
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[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> and
[00:30] <fsphil> someone should launch a big balloon in the shape of a pig that day
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> they'd better have that soda machine from the 2001 trailer
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> ol
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[00:30] <Darkside> fsphil: oh yes
[00:31] <Darkside> i wonder if you can get hold of those big pink floyd pigs
[00:34] <Darkside> oh my god
[00:34] <Darkside> that trailer is awesomer
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> lol the long list of the Mature rating
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> YAY Freezer!
[00:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD the door he opens with the Guchi guchi looks like one of the ones in Prey
[00:47] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[00:47] <fsphil> oh sweet, hadn't seen the video
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[01:07] Action: Zuph hates making balloon cables
[01:07] <Zuph> Freaking teflon wire
[01:07] <nevyn> hrm
[01:08] <nevyn> slipery customer?
[01:08] <Zuph> heh
[01:09] <Zuph> Yeah, and this crimper is *just* different enough to be infuriating.
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[01:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/advanced-technology/4212152/Chip-scale-atomic-clock-approaches-performance-of-modules--far-exceeds-TXCOs?cid=NL_EETimesProducts
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> Teeny atomic clock is teeny!
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> (though not, alas cheap)
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[01:46] <Darkside> noice
[01:54] <nevyn> SpeedEvil: bad request :(
[01:55] <SpeedEvil> nevyn: it's linked of the frontpage as product of the week
[01:56] <nevyn> yeah found it..
[01:57] <nevyn> hrm.. so for the cost of a K3 I could buy a high performance osc for a K3 hrm.
[01:57] <nevyn> it would be cool to be all high precicion TCXO PAH my osc is a atomic clock..
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[03:24] <stilldavid> Zuph: gonna be around a few minutes?
[03:24] <Zuph> stilldavid: Absolutely.
[03:24] <stilldavid> cool. I forgot I had one video from my camera. exporting from imovie now
[03:24] <Zuph> How's sunny Colorado this evening?
[03:25] <stilldavid> eh. sunny :) getting up early tomorrow to climb, so pretty low-key for me
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[03:25] <Zuph> heh
[03:25] <stilldavid> aka: beer and family guy and cropping 900 photos
[03:26] <stilldavid> and look at you all helpful in #sf :)
[03:26] <Zuph> The world deserves more hackerspaces!
[03:26] <stilldavid> I wish there was one in Boulder! that wasn't a joke, I mean
[03:26] <Zuph> heh
[03:27] <stilldavid> man, I'd love to have a group for this balloon project(s). a place to work!
[03:28] <Zuph> Hah, then you'd never get anything done at work!
[03:28] <Zuph> I speak from experience.
[03:30] <Zuph> As an aside, we got a really good writeup in the local "Alternative Weekly" paper : http://leoweekly.com/news/hacktory
[03:30] <Zuph> They didn't capture the balloon project as well as we would have hoped, from all the good questions they asked, but they managed to really express the ethos of the group (IMO).
[03:32] <stilldavid> wow, this is pretty well written
[03:33] <Zuph> I think the author developed a crush on Dan-K2VOL :-p
[03:34] <stilldavid> ohhhh really :)
[03:34] <stilldavid> kind of a crap photo for such a brilliant article
[03:35] <Zuph> Seriously. The photographer was kind of a douchebag. I would expect nothing less than way over-saturated photos from him.
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[03:55] <Dan-K2VOL> stilldavid
[03:55] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL:
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[04:37] <juxta_> ping shenki, Darkside
[04:39] <Darkside> pong juxta_
[04:52] <juxta_> hey Darkside
[04:52] <juxta_> what day is your talk?
[04:53] <juxta_> i'll prep a langing page for the website
[04:56] <Darkside> monday
[04:56] <Darkside> at about 1pm i think
[04:56] <Darkside> also joel is working on a mirror of the spacenear.us tracker
[04:56] <Darkside> well, we have the code anyway
[04:57] <Darkside> need to talk to rob about the dl-fldigi side of it, and whether we could add a value into the xml that determines the server dl-fldigi uploads to
[04:57] <Darkside> ahh, 1:30pm
[05:04] <juxta_> I see
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[05:20] <shenki> working == took a copy of the code
[05:20] <shenki> that's all ive done so far
[05:20] <shenki> going to be pressed for time
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[05:32] <Darkside> juxta_: shenki : http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=d08a3e2a6e9d6db35d4790173e2d3f07d4728544
[05:32] <Darkside> this is why you don't launch balloons in brisbane >_>
[05:32] <Dan-K2VOL> that's not good
[05:32] <Darkside> yeah
[05:32] <Dan-K2VOL> did you guys have a prediction on that?
[05:33] <Darkside> no this isnt a launch
[05:33] <Darkside> this is a prediction
[05:33] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh
[05:33] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
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[05:33] <Darkside> i.e. what will happen if tethered balloon we're running gets loose
[05:33] <Dan-K2VOL> well, here's some beautiful notes to for midnight reading: http://nldr.library.ucar.edu/repository/assets/vinlally/VEL-000-000-000-004.pdf
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[05:33] <Dan-K2VOL> The lead scientist who did all the US balloon systems design and operations from the 1950s to the 1990s
[05:39] <stilldavid> I guess Lally is no longer with us :(
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[06:29] <earthshine> morning
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[07:36] <Dan-K2VOL> mornin
[07:37] <Darkside> wicked
[07:37] <Darkside> shenki: juxta_ : grant is gonna drop round a bit later and pick up the video
[07:37] <Darkside> so i don't have to muck around with hit
[07:37] <Darkside> with it*
[07:39] <shenki> Darkside: cool
[07:40] <shenki> Darkside: if he is open to requests, ask for 2 mins worth of launch, acent, burst, landing. and include the fly on tux' nose at prelauch :)
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[07:41] <Darkside> why 2 min of each?
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[07:41] <Darkside> how long are the lightning talks
[07:41] <juxta_> and no mugshots of me please :p
[07:41] <Darkside> oh hell no
[07:41] <Darkside> i'm making sure you're 'hello' is in there :)
[07:41] <shenki> Darkside: 2 mins all up
[07:41] <Darkside> when you pick up the tux
[07:41] <Darkside> oh man, really?
[07:41] <shenki> well, i think that is almost too long for our talk
[07:41] <shenki> but we can talk over it
[07:42] <Darkside> ok
[07:42] <Darkside> how long are the lightning talks
[07:42] <shenki> usually 5 mins
[07:42] <Darkside> ok
[07:42] <eroomde> morning
[07:43] <juxta_> heya eroomde
[07:45] <eroomde> all well is aussie-ville/
[07:47] <shenki> it's been better: http://i.imgur.com/elsan.jpg
[07:47] <shenki> actually, you an add a "cyclone predicted" to the north east coast now too
[07:47] <shenki> Darkside: did you hear about that?
[07:49] <Darkside> oh YAY
[07:50] <eroomde> oh dear shenki
[07:51] <shenki> eroomde: heh, it's not all bad :)
[07:51] <eroomde> I was talking last night to a storm dynamics guy who might be inetrested in launching a payload into storms
[07:51] <eroomde> he is mainly studying the tiwi islands
[07:51] <eroomde> says they get the best storms
[07:52] <shenki> that would be fun
[07:52] <shenki> i imagine you wouldn't expect to recover it
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[08:08] <NigelMoby> Too frikkin early to be up on a weekend grrr
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[08:35] <NigelMoby> Morning James
[08:36] <jcoxon> morning
[08:36] <Upu> morning
[08:36] <NigelMoby> Morning upu
[08:36] <Upu> anyone seen Rob Harrison for a while ?
[08:36] <jcoxon> i spoke with on skype 2 days ago
[08:36] <jcoxon> he hasn't been terribly well recently
[08:37] <Upu> ah ok fair enough
[08:37] <Upu> is he getting better ?
[08:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:37] <Upu> good
[08:37] <jcoxon> at least thats what he told me :-)
[08:37] <Upu> fair enough :)
[08:37] <jcoxon> NigelMoby, battery test started
[08:38] <jcoxon> though i have a feeling i may have made by shutdown periods 2x what they are planned to be
[08:38] <jcoxon> we'll just have to see :-)
[08:38] <eroomde> mornign jcoxon
[08:38] <NigelMoby> Oo good, which one did you use?
[08:39] <jcoxon> 2000mAh
[08:39] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[08:39] <Upu> did the launch last week get recovered ?
[08:40] <jcoxon> Upu, mine did
[08:40] <Upu> oh cool
[08:40] <Upu> who found it ?
[08:40] <NigelMoby> Cool, I guess my next day delivery doesn't count on a Saturday :/
[08:41] <Upu> also jcoxon any pics ?
[08:41] <jcoxon> NigelMoby, http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[08:41] <jcoxon> though i wouldn't watch it for ever if i were you
[08:42] <jcoxon> Upu, stupidly not
[08:42] <NigelMoby> That's really cool!!
[08:42] <Upu> shame :) What did you use in the end for the payload container, I spoke to the wife but the boxes they get vaccines in are quite large
[08:43] <jcoxon> Upu, 2 pieces of foam with 4 cable ties
[08:43] <Upu> haha that'll do it
[08:43] <jcoxon> there was more but it was too heavy so we cut it off
[08:43] <Dan-K2VOL> oh everyone up over there in the UK already?
[08:43] <Upu> yeah early birds, updaitng a VMWare platform for a customer zzzz
[08:43] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, seems so
[08:44] <NigelMoby> Early birds ya see..lol
[08:44] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[08:44] Action: jcoxon is on call this afternoon
[08:44] <jcoxon> WB8ELK HF flight this pm
[08:44] <jcoxon> 1930UTC
[08:44] Action: SpeedEvil is on sofa this morning.
[08:44] <Dan-K2VOL> gosh lol Bill sneaks those things up on me
[08:45] <jcoxon> it went to GPSL
[08:45] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm still at the hackerspace working on sat modem code.
[08:45] <jcoxon> ouch
[08:45] <NigelMoby> I'll test gps today James...worked out resistor divided for the tx line.
[08:45] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, all my GPSL emails hit a subfolder
[08:45] Action: jcoxon hates DHL
[08:46] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: same. overloaded
[08:46] <NigelMoby> What they broke j? Lol
[08:46] <jcoxon> still haven't delivered
[08:46] <Dan-K2VOL> jcoxon brad and I were scheming half the night on just how little we could get a payload with the digi m-10 if you only needed to do once a day telemetry
[08:46] <NigelMoby> Bah
[08:46] <Upu> Neither of my parachutes have turned up yet
[08:47] <jcoxon> my flatmate was home all day yesterday, our doorbell works and the claim they tried
[08:47] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, :-)
[08:47] <jcoxon> its a challenge...
[08:47] <NigelMoby> Ha love it when they use that excuse..lazy sods
[08:47] <Dan-K2VOL> seems that using no insulation, a 6v solar panel with a 1000ma LiPo battery, and a custom film micro and GPS we could keep it under 135 grams total
[08:48] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, you could also add a 10mW 434 tx just for local coverage
[08:48] <Dan-K2VOL> and if someone figures out superpressure balloons, a 2m x .5m cylinder of mylar would float it to 46000 ft
[08:48] <Dan-K2VOL> don't want local coverage
[08:49] <Dan-K2VOL> want it to stay in the air for months
[08:49] <Dan-K2VOL> and circle the globe
[08:49] <jcoxon> i know :-)
[08:49] <Upu> ambitious but impressive :)
[08:49] <jcoxon> just once a day would kill me
[08:50] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe me too, but the nice thing about the sat modem is that it's two way - we could charge it up nicely before flight, and run a higher data rate until it stabilized
[08:50] <Dan-K2VOL> like 4 times a day
[08:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: err - 2m*.5m?
[08:50] <jcoxon> i'm playing with power modes today - running my picoatlas payload with some power saving features
[08:50] <jcoxon> see how it goes
[08:51] <Dan-K2VOL> speedEvil, that's a rough mental conversion
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[08:51] <Dan-K2VOL> from a calculation that was for zero pressure balloons to begin with!
[08:51] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I think you've got your numbers out a bit - 135g of air is about 1m^3 at 15kmish
[08:51] <NigelMoby> Hey GW8RAK
[08:52] <NigelMoby> Who's making coffee then?
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[08:54] <GW8RAK> morning NigelMoby - just having one
[08:54] <Dan-K2VOL> ah, It's 4AM here, my math coprocessor is pretty much offline. Care to do a quick napkin guess at how many m^3 would be needed to keep a 135g payload plus mylar skin in the air at 13km?
[08:54] <eroomde> go to bed Dan-K2VOL
[08:55] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe, I'm packin up now eroomde
[08:55] <eroomde> on a balloon project 2 years ago we did 19 hr days 7 days a week for 3 months. took me a month ro recover
[08:55] <eroomde> it really starts to not be fun
[08:55] <jcoxon> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/01/clear_iphone_4_mod.html
[08:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[08:55] <jcoxon> awesome
[08:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm with ya there
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[08:56] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: 3?
[08:57] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: I'm just waking up - so am in the same boat.
[08:57] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, 3m^3?
[08:57] <eroomde> you get to 11pm in the office and say 'i'm really sorry to let you guys down but I'm leaving at midnight tonight - i really need an early night. back at 7am'. that constitutes a recklessly long sleep
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[08:57] <NigeyS> thats better
[08:58] <NigeyS> jcoxon, theoretically, if it manages to float, how long could a pico payload stay up ?
[08:58] <Upu> until the USA shoot it down for terrorism
[08:58] <Dan-K2VOL> NigeyS, if it superpressures, and doesn't leak, and doesn't run into storms, it could stay up for weeks or months
[08:58] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, I'd bet russia will get it first, with the prevailing winds
[08:59] <NigeyS> :O dam, my battery will be dead in 2 days..lol
[08:59] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering a metal balloon - for UV resistance reasons.
[08:59] <NigeyS> and no shooting my dam baloons!
[08:59] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[08:59] <Dan-K2VOL> as long as you don't use rubber balloons, you don't really have to worry about UV SpeedEvil
[08:59] <NigeyS> is UV that much of a problem then ?
[09:00] <Dan-K2VOL> polyethylene and mylar aren't really affected by in practice
[09:00] <Dan-K2VOL> for latex it is
[09:00] <Dan-K2VOL> it will pop your balloon in a day or two, according to bill brown
[09:00] <NigeyS> crikey thats bad
[09:00] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure about chlorprene that was mentioned here the other day tho
[09:01] <GW8RAK> Has anyone experience of joining mylar?
[09:01] <NigeyS> yeah i was looking at a 4ft chlorprene, theyre apparently better at handling uv
[09:01] <GW8RAK> Rather than glueing
[09:01] <Dan-K2VOL> GW8RAK, it's not possible to heat seal on its own
[09:01] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, loctite! lol
[09:01] <GW8RAK> Can it be welded, ultrasonically or thermally?
[09:02] <Dan-K2VOL> but there are versions of it that have a polyethylene layer
[09:02] <Dan-K2VOL> not thermally
[09:02] <Dan-K2VOL> but if you get it with the polyethylene layer you can thermally weld it
[09:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Polyester film is what mylar is
[09:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I think
[09:02] <GW8RAK> It's something I want to look into for work but with spinoffs into HAB'ing
[09:02] <NigeyS> ultrasonic welding? how's that done? :|
[09:03] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys should try to examine all those grocery store balloons you have
[09:03] <Dan-K2VOL> Anyone have experience with checking available RAM on an arduino at runtime?
[09:03] <eroomde> we tried to make an rf welder for our ZPs once
[09:03] <eroomde> didn;t really work
[09:03] <eroomde> we just have a rolling seam welder instead now
[09:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm that's cool sounding though
[09:04] <Dan-K2VOL> really, do you guys have documentation on that rolling seam welder?
[09:04] <GW8RAK> NigeyS - as it's name suggests, two rollers with one or both fed with ultrasonic energy which welds the material without heat
[09:04] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, there is a modified bootloader that spits out that kind of info but i dont remember the name of it
[09:04] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: not to hand. had to mothball the enire welding rig when we moved labs
[09:04] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, thats neat!
[09:04] <eroomde> it's sitting waiting to be resurrected
[09:04] <Dan-K2VOL> was it commercial eroomde, or you guys make it
[09:04] <GW8RAK> But it's expensive. When I looked at it a few years ago, it was £20K minimum
[09:04] <NigeyS> although whenever i hear ultrasonic i think of baby scans..lol
[09:04] <eroomde> commercial
[09:05] <eroomde> ZP number 1 used a diy welder, zp 2+ was commercial seam welder
[09:05] <Dan-K2VOL> how much was that commercial one?
[09:05] <GW8RAK> There are a couple of hand held thermal welders which heat the 2 pieces of material and then roll them together.
[09:06] <eroomde> a few hundred GBP
[09:06] <Dan-K2VOL> not bad
[09:06] <eroomde> there's a sticker on it advising us to 'adopt butter regularly'
[09:06] <Dan-K2VOL> haha eh?
[09:06] <GW8RAK> Have some equipment at work which could do the same job
[09:06] <eroomde> i think they mean to keep the rolling element lubricated
[09:06] <GW8RAK> It's very similar
[09:07] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh a foreign translation
[09:07] <NigeyS> flora light! :p
[09:07] <GW8RAK> Hot air blast and two rollers under pressure
[09:07] <eroomde> that's a neat way or doing it
[09:08] <eroomde> of*
[09:08] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about electrostatic + laser
[09:08] <GW8RAK> I'm sure a couple of guides could be made to feed in sheet fabric
[09:16] <Dan-K2VOL> something like this eroomde
[09:16] <Dan-K2VOL> http://cgi.ebay.com/frd1000-CONTINUOUS-HORIZONTAL-BAG-BAND-SEALER-MACHINE-/120642273390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c16d7006e#ht_2531wt_802
[09:17] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: ours is a bit more compact
[09:17] <eroomde> but yes, basically that
[09:17] <Dan-K2VOL> looks like that's what mark caviezel used to make ours, has the same lettered imprints along the seal.
[09:18] <eroomde> gosh
[09:18] <eroomde> imprints
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[09:18] <eroomde> right I'm going to head out and faff about in town
[09:18] <eroomde> catch y'all later
[09:19] <Upu> o7
[09:23] <jcoxon> wow a ground plane under a gps antenna does really make a difference
[09:23] <jcoxon> just some foil, a layer of duct tape and the antenna sitting on top
[09:24] <Dan-K2VOL> good to know
[09:24] <Dan-K2VOL> nite all
[09:24] <jcoxon> night
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[09:28] <NigeyS> dammit no 2k resistors
[09:29] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: picoatlas battery test with new low power modes watch on http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/28746129088716800]
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[09:41] <NigeyS> wonder if i can teach the cat to make coffee..hmmm
[09:43] <Upu> I've taught my dog to close the door after himself, tied a lead to the door handle :)
[09:44] <NigeyS> haha good one !
[09:44] <Upu> he can pull closed, working on pushing closed now
[09:44] <NigeyS> i still find it hilarious my cat is scared of the hamster
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[09:44] <Upu> lol someone needs to point out your cats place in the pecking order
[09:46] <NigeyS> i do try, but he just runs away like a coward
[09:46] <Upu> mould its food into hamster shaped lumps, they'll get it eventually
[09:46] <NigeyS> lmao now theres a thought!
[09:48] <GW8RAK> Just don't ask me how I found this http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0781774926/b3ta-21
[09:48] <GW8RAK> read the first review :)
[09:49] <Upu> lol
[09:49] <NigeyS> loooool
[09:50] <NigeyS> must be a good book mind, seen the price of it?!
[09:51] <GW8RAK> :o
[09:51] <NigeyS> Liam Gallagher has told how a fan once snorted his dandruff - after mistaking it for a chunk of cocaine.
[09:51] <NigeyS> ok thats freaky
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[10:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: N-prize. Take http://authors.library.caltech.edu/3303/1/PARaipcp04a.pdf - scale it down by 10, and use lasers.
[10:19] <jcoxon> now in day mode
[10:19] <fsphil> me too
[10:20] Action: SpeedEvil is _totally_ unsure of what time of day it is.
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Sleep cycle is broken ATM. I think I just had an afternoon nap at 6AM-8AM
[10:20] <fsphil> move to australia for a few weeks :p
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> Tempting.
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> I don't have a hat with corks dangling off it though.
[10:42] <Darkside> pff
[10:42] <Darkside> neither do i
[10:47] <NigeyS> kangaroooooooooos
[10:47] <jcoxon> hehe fsphil i actually meant my payload
[10:47] <jcoxon> :-p
[10:47] <NigeyS> james can i use a 2k2 resistor in a divider instead of 2k to get 3.3v?
[10:48] <jcoxon> a voltage divider is all to do with ratios
[10:48] <jcoxon> so yes
[10:48] <NigeyS> well 1k / 2k gave me 3.3333
[10:48] <NigeyS> but no 2k's here, so i need tu use the 2k2
[10:48] <jcoxon> it'll cope with some differences
[10:48] <jcoxon> i wouldn't worry too much
[10:48] <NigeyS> brill
[10:49] <NigeyS> think ill breakout the arduinos power to the breadboard and do the dividers on there > gps
[10:50] <NigeyS> well the tx pin anyway
[10:50] <Colin_> hy not use 2 1K in series
[10:50] <Colin_> +w
[10:51] <jcoxon> NigeyS, in theory for GPS you only need to use the tx out from the GPS to get data
[10:51] <jcoxon> depends if you want to send the GPS commands
[10:51] <NigeyS> Colin_, good thinking!
[10:51] <jcoxon> if you don't need to send commands the mega will cope with just directly connected gps tx to its rx pin
[10:52] <NigeyS> hmm yeah i guess so
[10:52] <jcoxon> so you just need to provide 3.3v to vcc, gnd between them and then tx from the GPS to the mega's rx
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[10:52] <jcoxon> then you'll get data
[10:52] <NigeyS> i shall give it a go, just have to resolder the aduinos reset track i cut the other night..lol
[10:52] <jcoxon> morning RocketBoy
[10:53] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: my foil balloons just turned up
[10:53] <jcoxon> oh cool
[10:53] <jcoxon> how many did you order?
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> By foil, I assume you mean metallised mylar?
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Or are they actual foil
[10:53] <fsphil> oh jcoxon, I found a place that still sells fsa03's
[10:53] <fsphil> if your still interested in them
[10:53] <jcoxon> fsphil, where?
[10:53] <NigeyS> morning phil, i bought them all muhahaha
[10:54] <jcoxon> sequuia?
[10:54] <NigeyS> rings a bell
[10:54] <RocketBoy> speedevil - yes metallised something - big party balloons - not sure if its mylar
[10:54] <fsphil> jcoxon, http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[10:54] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, is it the same as teh ones i had
[10:54] <fsphil> yea that's them
[10:54] <jcoxon> fsphil, yes i bought my last from there
[10:55] <jcoxon> i don't like the module now
[10:55] <jcoxon> but i do have lots of breakout boards
[10:55] <fsphil> morning NigeyS, how's the big little project coing?
[10:55] <fsphil> going too
[10:55] <RocketBoy> qualitex? - 36" silver
[10:55] <NigeyS> ok so far, just about to power up the gps
[10:55] <jcoxon> yeah i had the green ones
[10:55] <NigeyS> i got green on order to :|
[10:55] <RocketBoy> whats wrong with the fsa03 jcoxon?
[10:56] <jcoxon> the antenna gets dodgey easily
[10:56] <jcoxon> as in the connection
[10:56] <fsphil> a bit too fragile
[10:56] <jcoxon> i like GPSbees now
[10:56] <NigeyS> except the fsa what is a good alternative to the lassen then ?
[10:56] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you still up for launch next saturday?
[10:56] <fsphil> but they are incredibly light!
[10:56] <fsphil> and really cheap
[10:57] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: yes I'm busy putting a payload together
[10:57] <Upu> I use Inventek
[10:57] <jcoxon> great - what sort of mass are you looking at?
[10:57] <Upu> people don't seem to rate them
[10:57] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: I'm aiming at about 75g
[10:57] <fsphil> wow
[10:58] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, itll always work out more mines gone up from 65g to pushing 90g!
[10:58] <fsphil> this pico-hab is really taking off (pardon the pun)
[10:58] <jcoxon> Upu, they aren't terribly easy to get in the UK and require some sort of pcb
[10:58] <Upu> my balloon is 650g :)
[10:58] <NigeyS> lol
[10:58] <RocketBoy> battery 20g, GPfsphil: yeah I'm sure it will
[10:58] <NigeyS> btw i got conned on lipos
[10:59] <jcoxon> NigeyS, how?
[10:59] <NigeyS> 12quid at cool components, same 1 at proto pic was 7 quid :/
[10:59] <Upu> yeah jcoxon someone should import them $23 each if customs don't catch up with you
[10:59] <jcoxon> oh yes
[10:59] <jcoxon> Upu, best not chat to me about customs right now
[10:59] <NigeyS> what you get clobbered for? ;p;
[10:59] <Upu> yeah they got me on the second order for the GPS chips
[10:59] <jcoxon> the GPSbee bulk order
[10:59] <Upu> £15 tax and £10 admin
[10:59] <NigeyS> gits
[10:59] <Upu> which was more than the bloody units
[11:00] <fsphil> eek
[11:00] <NigeyS> i was going to order my new telescope from the states but if i get clobbered on that itll be like £900 :(
[11:00] <fsphil> I've got stuff coming from sparkfun, they'll probably catch that :/
[11:00] <NigeyS> phil my 4 sf orders have got through ok so maybe not
[11:01] <RocketBoy> I have 3 x 36" balloons - so that should be good upto about 150g if needs be
[11:01] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, same plan here, they reckon 66g per balloon
[11:01] <jcoxon> NigeyS, remember thats fully filled
[11:01] <jcoxon> you need to leave quite a bit of volume
[11:01] <NigeyS> oh crap yeah
[11:02] <RocketBoy> just a bit worried about the balloon obscuring the GPS
[11:02] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, it worked okay last time
[11:02] <NigeyS> about 50% inflate ?
[11:02] <jcoxon> yeah i think thats sensible
[11:02] <jcoxon> its hard to tell
[11:02] <NigeyS> yeah..hmm.. that could work out 3 large and 2 small just to get a decent lift
[11:03] <RocketBoy> yeah - I guess drop the payload down on a cord - so that more of the sky is visable
[11:03] <jcoxon> you don't want to use small
[11:03] <jcoxon> stick to identical balloons
[11:03] <NigeyS> oki, the no notams limit was 2m right ?
[11:04] <jcoxon> yes, the reason for not using smalls is that they will super-pressure at a low altitude
[11:04] <fsphil> good point
[11:04] <jcoxon> and may burst
[11:04] <jcoxon> in theory if you calculated it right you could use them as lift balloons
[11:04] <NigeyS> right i got ya, ill have to notams this then incase i have to use 4 lg
[11:04] <jcoxon> then when they super-pressure it'll just float
[11:04] <jcoxon> but that'll be a challenge
[11:05] <RocketBoy> bbl
[11:05] <fsphil> you should be fine getting the notam, unless your launching near an airport
[11:05] <jcoxon> i think 4 large will still be under 2m
[11:05] <jcoxon> they aren't spherical remember
[11:05] <NigeyS> thats the thing, i cand launch in cardiff, barry is ideal, loads of fields, no power lines, but cardiff airport is just down the road
[11:06] <NigeyS> if its spherical size then yeah ill be under
[11:06] <fsphil> besides, I don't think they'll be too bothered if it's slightly over the limit
[11:07] <jcoxon> just aim to get your payload as light as possible
[11:07] <NigeyS> fingers crossed
[11:07] <jcoxon> thats my suggestion
[11:07] <fsphil> I'm so tempted to have a go at his pico thing
[11:07] <NigeyS> i will be, not gonna know the final weight until at least tuesday, then i can work on lightening it up a bit if i need to
[11:07] <jcoxon> pah we need some real launches
[11:07] <fsphil> lol
[11:07] <fsphil> don't worry, hadie:3 will be a real launch :)
[11:07] <fsphil> and hopefully apex will be up soon
[11:08] <NigeyS> got any atlas boards left J ?
[11:08] <jcoxon> NigeyS, yes
[11:08] <jcoxon> i've got one ready to fly pretty much
[11:08] <NigeyS> sweet!
[11:09] <fsphil> a pico-payload on a big latex balloon would get to a hell of an altitude
[11:09] <jcoxon> fsphil, indeed it would
[11:09] <NigeyS> have to beef up the payload a bit .. insulation wise but yeah
[11:10] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, what freq will you be on for your launch?
[11:11] <jcoxon> i'm using the same code base for picoatlas and atlas which is great as i've already tested a few things last flight
[11:15] <fsphil> it's nice not having to panic about code before a launch too :)
[11:15] <NigeyS> gps hooked up :D
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> I question if it would (pico payload on a ...
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Pico payload means a partially inflated balloon - so it does not burst at normal alts.
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> Partially inflated balloon means that the differential pressure of the envelope is higher - which may allow it to superpressure, rather than to keep ascending.
[11:19] <jcoxon> yes, you'd have to be very careful with He filling
[11:19] <jcoxon> it wouldn't be a matter of just filling it up a little bit and letting go
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> As there isn't enough gas to get it to burst diamater without superpressuring
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> A smaller payload will go higher than a heavy payload - but where the cutoff is is not clear
[11:20] <jcoxon> okay time for work
[11:20] <jcoxon> bbl
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[11:20] <SpeedEvil> wave
[11:20] <fsphil> there'd be a risk of it falling slowly then?
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Or more accurately - for the same inflation - it always bursts at the same height.
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Payload is irrelevant
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> To a first order anyway
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> The pressure inside the balloon as it expands is a curve - it starts out high, and goes down.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> The pressure of the atmosphere also starts out high, and goes down.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> It's possible to get into a state where the pressure inside the balloon is falling slower than the pressure of the atmosphere.
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> At this point, the balloon slows its ascent, and may even come to a stop
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> It won't descend (neglecting reality and leaks and sun and ...)
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[11:52] <fsphil> would be an interesting experiment
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Another related and interesting experiment that someone was going to perform but hasn't got around to yet was to put a differential pressure sensor inside the balloon.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> This would let us actually calculate what happens
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[12:00] <vk5gr> shenki/darkside you about?
[12:01] <Darkside> yep
[12:01] <Darkside> about to sleep, but yep
[12:03] <vk5gr> just letting you know that it has all imported fine. jkust looking for the fly shot and about to pick some music for it.
[12:03] <vk5gr> it looks stunning actually!
[12:03] <Darkside> hehe
[12:04] <Darkside> i'm amazed at how well it came out!
[12:04] <vk5gr> you dont have a mm:ss count of the particular fly shot you want do you? So far I ahve a fly buzzing around him while he is sitting on the ground.
[12:05] <Darkside> ill check, hold on
[12:05] <Darkside> it was just something joel suggested
[12:06] <Darkside> it lands on it around 4:45
[12:06] <Darkside> in the launch file
[12:06] <Darkside> ahh and terry brushes it away around 4:47
[12:06] <Darkside> i dunno why joel wanted that,
[12:07] <Darkside> its a bit long from there until the launch to include it really
[12:07] <vk5gr> ill pick a couple of shots showing the balloon - and then go from there - might get the fly - will see
[12:07] <vk5gr> i'll take it that the fly is not the main subject
[12:07] <vk5gr> :-)
[12:07] <Darkside> :P
[12:07] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54882ADD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:08] <Lunar_Lander> ping RocketBoy
[12:08] <RocketBoy> yo
[12:08] <Darkside> it was just something joel thought was funny, eslecially for an international audience
[12:08] <Lunar_Lander> I just wanted to ask about your parachute size plot
[12:08] <Lunar_Lander> if I may use it once again please
[12:09] <vk5gr> ok darkside - time to work some premiere magic - will SMS you when it is uploaded (slight issue there - my cable link is down tonight - backup gatewayed via my work NextG modem until they get the cable fixed
[12:09] <Darkside> anyway i'm off to sleep now vk5gr, catching a 6:15 flight...
[12:09] <Darkside> heh damn
[12:09] <vk5gr> goodnight - safe trip
[12:09] <Darkside> thanks again! night
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> night Darkside
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[12:09] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: sure - in a document? just a credit will be fine
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, you see, I am preparing some kind of "Final Report" on my actual ascents
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I am already typing all the theroretical parts
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought it might fit in and I would write "By Steve Randall"
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[12:12] <RocketBoy> sure
[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:13] <Lunar_Lander> and another question that came up when I looked on your site
[12:13] <Lunar_Lander> are the Hwoyee balloons from china?
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[12:33] <Upu> yes they are Lunar_Lander
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> well I guessed by their name but I wanted to ask anyway :)
[12:35] <Upu> http://hwoyee.com/
[12:35] <The-Compiler> Lunar_Lander: huh, do I happen to know your nick from somewhere else? botb? demoscene? DS-homebrew scene?
[12:36] <Lunar_Lander> I'm only on the Orbiter-Forum with that nick
[12:39] <The-Compiler> heh, okay
[12:39] <The-Compiler> wait, maybe that was Lunar, without the "Lander" ;)
[12:40] <russss> pretty engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjoY_cSmQ70
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[12:41] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the link Upu
[12:49] <fsphil> russss, that makes a lovely sound!
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[13:22] <Lunar_Lander> bbl
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[17:30] <NigeyS> meh#
[17:31] <NigeyS> evening peeps
[17:35] <fsphil> lo lo
[17:36] <NigeyS> hey phil
[17:36] <NigeyS> still no lock :| lol
[17:41] <fsphil> is it sitting in a bad spot?
[17:41] <NigeyS> well my mobiles got 4/4 sats
[17:41] <NigeyS> so i guess not
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[18:02] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[18:02] <fsphil> is it even giving you the time?
[18:02] <NigeyS> nope just this ...
[18:02] <Zuph> Afternoon, NigeyS
[18:02] <NigeyS> $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30
[18:02] <NigeyS> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
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[18:04] <fsphil> the antenna might be the problem
[18:04] <fsphil> some need power to work
[18:05] <NigeyS> antennae is meant to draw 3.3v from the same source as the gps module
[18:08] <fsphil> is it the right way up?
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[18:10] <Darkside> fucking
[18:10] <Darkside> early
[18:11] <NigeyS> hard to tell, theres a solder lob on 1 side, and writing on the other, doesnt say which way is up or down
[18:11] <NigeyS> hey dark
[18:11] <NigeyS> side
[18:11] <fsphil> 50/50 :)
[18:12] <fsphil> good far-too-early-morning Darkside
[18:13] <NigeyS> flipped it over, give it 30mins and see what happens i guess
[18:13] <Darkside> hahahaha
[18:13] <Darkside> i'm flying to brisbane in a bit over an hour...
[18:13] <Darkside> anyway, cya guys
[18:13] <Darkside> will be online later
[18:13] <fsphil> good luck!
[18:16] <NigeyS> ahh
[18:16] <NigeyS> The unit connects directly to the Lassen IQ GPS module (GPS-00163). Orient as shown in the above image with ceramic portion pointing up.
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[18:24] <G6UIM> Hi all is there going to be an APRS feed of the flight?
[18:29] <fsphil> I think so
[18:29] <fsphil> callsign WB8ELK
[18:33] <G6UIM> found some info that says it is on Balloonatics WB8ELK-11
[18:36] <fsphil> yes, just found joe's email: APRS on 144.39: WB8ELK-11
[18:39] <fsphil> ping natrium42
[18:40] <fsphil> or, does anyone else make a quick fix to the tracker?
[18:40] <fsphil> does=can
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:44] <fsphil> ello LL
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> someone had a great idea here yesterday
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> to found a club similar to these for model rocketeers
[18:49] <fsphil> that'd be interesting, though there are a lot more people doing rockets
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is that there is still a significant number of HAB flyers
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> and that it is possible to interest big researchers to do experiments as "guests" on small HABs
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> and thus it should be interesting to do that
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
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[19:22] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Got red tags, now need to pack flight computer kits and finish the directions. Look for complete kits shortly. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/28895327289352192]
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> that is the man from Kansas right?
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[19:29] <W7AS> Hello All, I cant find wb4elk here, or on batc, aprs.fi , something I am missing ???
[19:30] <fsphil> wb8elk?
[19:30] <fsphil> the stream hasn't started on batc yet, but there's a fair few people in chatting now
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> is Bill flying again today?
[19:34] <fsphil> yep yep
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> objectives?
[19:34] <fsphil> not long now I think
[19:34] <fsphil> no idea, but judging by the amount of radios it's a communications test
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hope he will miss the US Army installations today
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[19:36] <W7AS> Found bill here, Thanks http://aprs.fi/?call=wb8elk-11&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600 What call in the streem under ???
[19:36] <fsphil> WB8ELK
[19:36] <fsphil> under members streams
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> by the way
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> someone at Wright-Patterson AFB mailed me because he found my website and asked about stuff like landing prediction and I linked him to the Habhub
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> it is a bad time to launch from Ohio though
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> you will most probably end up in the mountains of West Virginia
[19:43] <W7AS> fsphil Thank You, I am still learning these sites....
[19:43] <fsphil> no worries :)
[19:44] <fsphil> did you get in ok?
[19:45] <W7AS> Yes, I am in now under w7as allen thanks.....
[19:50] <W7AS> I learned about spacenear.us and bact.tv last week for the first time, I LOVE the chat room features, The only thing better is to be on-site with the launch crew !!!! But as you can tell, still learning
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[19:55] <fsphil> launching can be a lot of fun :)
[20:00] <W7AS> I am a member of ANSR in Phoenix Arizona for the past year, I have known about them for about ten years, but just got started, GREAT FUN, I have done 5 flights. I wish I had joined them years ago....
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[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> you are with the ANSR?
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> that is cool
[20:02] <W7AS> Yes, Great bunch, Jack W7JLC and others... www.ansr.org
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[20:08] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[20:08] <Zuph> Hey NigeyS
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[20:12] <NigeyS> how are you this evening sir ?
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello Zuph
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> I again brought forward your idea of a HAB club
[20:13] <Zuph> It is not quite evening yet! :-)
[20:13] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: How did that go?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> it was like this
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:44:43)<Lunar_Lander>someone had a great idea here yesterday
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:44:55)<Lunar_Lander>to found a club similar to these for model rocketeers
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:49:36)<fsphil>that'd be interesting, though there are a lot more people doing rockets
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:50:46)<Lunar_Lander>that is true
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:51:07)<Lunar_Lander>the thing is that there is still a significant number of HAB flyers
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (19:51:46)<Lunar_Lander>and that it is possible to interest big researchers to do experiments as "guests" on small HABs
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (20:03:06)<Lunar_Lander>and thus it should be interesting to do that
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> (20:10:28)<Lunar_Lander>what do you think?
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[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> after that the talk paused
[20:14] <Zuph> heh
[20:14] <NigeyS> hehe
[20:14] <NigeyS> hey SpeedEvil
[20:16] <fsphil> not sure about a HAB specific club, but maybe something that covers all near-space activities
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> I had that idea of a fund for insuring flights
[20:18] <Zuph> With a large organization which can provide some oversight, insurance companies will be more likely to provide some coverage.
[20:18] <Zuph> It would also be a good way to ensure that amateurs are doing this safely.
[20:19] <Zuph> IMO, it probably isn't a good idea for a father and a son to indiscriminately toss iPhones into the air in the shadow of La Guardia and JFK Airports.
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah exactly
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> btw, doesn't that Brooklyn flight really have a taste of being commercial?
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> with the "buy the full movie!"
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> or "Buy our book!"
[20:20] <Zuph> I don't think it's much more than a really opportunistic Dad.
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.brooklynspaceprogram.com/
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> have a look at the site now
[20:22] <Zuph> Hi There?
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> major FAIL
[20:22] <Zuph> heh
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[20:23] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.brooklynspaceprogram.org/BSP/Home.html
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> this site works
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> my own text already has the full description of balloon dynamics
[20:26] <Zuph> See, if there were a ballooning organization, it could publicly explain why they're not doing things safely :-p
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> I already have a potential name :P
[20:26] <Zuph> Oh?
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> EUROBALLOON
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> or alternatively: EUROASCENT
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> UKIPHAB
[20:28] <NigeyS> hey laurence
[20:28] <fsphil> EASYBALLOON
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:29] <Zuph> Bah, another elitist, Eurocentric "science" organization.
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> vote UKIP !
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> maybe we could do some things together
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> like the first HAB flight in Africa
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:30] <fsphil> wouldn't be the first :p
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> where was the first?
[20:30] <fsphil> not sure, but I know there's been a few
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> and I know a good place for a subsidary
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> ascension island
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[20:32] <fsphil> http://www.habex.za.net/
[20:32] <NigeyS> hmm phil, that nmea string didnt include rmc ?
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> I am just thinking
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> when that atlantic flight will succeed one day
[20:33] <fsphil> do you need it NigeyS?
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> if we could go on and try a circumnavigation
[20:33] <NigeyS> looking at robbies site he seems to think so :|
[20:33] <NigeyS> but i think everything i need is in gga and vtg
[20:33] <fsphil> gga has the position and altitude
[20:34] <fsphil> that's really all you need
[20:35] <NigeyS> yup, only useful 1 i can see in rmc is date
[20:38] <W7AS> If you want a compleat picture, you both GGA and RMC
[20:41] <NigeyS> well really i just name altitude, lat, long, sats, time, speed .. thats about it
[20:41] <NigeyS> need* .. why did i say name .. hmm
[20:41] <fsphil> I've been doing that all day :p my brain is half asleep
[20:42] <NigeyS> mines totally asleep, dont worry phil! lol
[20:43] <fsphil> Bill's stream is on now ... sheesh he's having a party over there
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> where is the stream again?
[20:45] <W7AS> Give me a few minutes to get my GPS referance book out, If you want I can post links, I am building a payload with a Talking GPS to down load on 70cm ham band. In the USA this is legal...
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> btw thanks for the ZA link fsphil
[20:46] <chembrow> http://www.batc.tv/ch_live.php
[20:46] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, BATC.tv
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[20:46] <W7AS> Note, there is audio from WB8ELK...
[20:48] <Colin_> Hmm.. is wb8elk going to launch?
[20:49] <Colin_> and which stream on batc is it?
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> Colin_ http://www.batc.tv/ch_live.php?ch=5
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> and select "WB8ELK"
[20:50] <Colin_> ta
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph if we do that club
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> we need Bill for it
[20:51] <Zuph> heh
[20:51] <Zuph> Yeah :)
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> isn't he like the "inventor" of HAB?
[20:53] <Zuph> He's probably the preeminent contributer to amateur HAB.
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[20:55] <Zuph> Heh, I just mailed a couple of Bill's transmitters back to him. Looks like he has plenty in reserve!
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:58] <W7AS> Bill was the first to do amateur HAB in the USA...
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> he even made a rockoon I saw
[21:00] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> Xmitter remix!
[21:02] <jcoxon> evening
[21:03] <GW8RAK> Evening
[21:04] <jcoxon> good amount of listeners in the states this evening
[21:04] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[21:04] <jcoxon> have we loaded the predictor data?
[21:04] <Zuph> Hola Dan-K2VOL
[21:05] <Zuph> Watching the Bill Brown stream?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:07] <NigeyS> evening james
[21:07] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[21:07] <jcoxon> back from work
[21:08] <NigeyS> ah yeah you were on call ?
[21:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:08] <jcoxon> busy busy
[21:08] <NigeyS> bah, time to chill :D
[21:08] <NigeyS> gps works .. kinda
[21:08] <jcoxon> uhuh
[21:09] <NigeyS> wont get a lock anywhere indoors, and only 6 sats outside, possibly a dodgy antennae
[21:09] <jcoxon> no no that sounds about right
[21:09] <jcoxon> gets a lock outside then?
[21:09] <NigeyS> yeah, took a while for the first lock mind
[21:09] <jcoxon> yes thats the lassen for you
[21:09] <jcoxon> its a very old gps module
[21:10] <NigeyS> yup :( ublox5 for the non-pico i think
[21:13] <jcoxon> picoatlas is still running
[21:13] <jcoxon> currently in evening mode
[21:20] <NigeyS> forgot about that, whats the link again ?
[21:20] <jcoxon> http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[21:21] <NigeyS> thankoo
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> launch!
[21:24] <NigeyS> b'ding as it hit him on the head lol
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:25] <fsphil> nothing on the map
[21:25] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:25] <jcoxon> nothing coming through to the server
[21:25] <fsphil> see that
[21:25] <fsphil> hmm
[21:25] <jcoxon> on aprs?
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> what do I need to give into aprs.fi?
[21:26] <chembrow> http://aprs.fi/?call=a%2FWB8ELK-11 - 1410 ft
[21:26] <fsphil> the telemetry I decoded over the video stream looked ok
[21:26] <jcoxon> fsphil, seems like no on is listenijg
[21:27] <Colin_> too busy congratulating themselves
[21:27] <fsphil> gonna hit globaltuners
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> spacetracker has him
[21:27] <Colin_> oh, there it goes
[21:28] <jcoxon> fsphil, i'll update the GFS data
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[21:31] <fsphil> not getting much luck on GT
[21:32] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> spacenear works
[21:35] <NigeyS> working now
[21:35] <NigeyS> 2.5m/s
[21:35] <Dan-K2VOL> no HF of the balloon here
[21:35] <Dan-K2VOL> in KY
[21:37] <fsphil> still nothing on globaltuners
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[21:38] <W7AS> Is the video and chat text being saved somewhere ???
[21:38] <fsphil> hearing it
[21:39] <fsphil> incomplete string
[21:39] <fsphil> got one of the rtty ones
[21:45] <Colin_> Doesn't seem to be going up very fast
[21:46] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[21:46] <Dan-K2VOL> at that rate he's dangerously close to losing the climb
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[21:46] <jcoxon> people seem to be struggling to day to get clean decodes
[21:46] <jcoxon> odd
[21:47] <jcoxon> a bigger worry is the trajectory
[21:47] chembrow (~chris@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[21:47] <Colin_> well he's losing more than the climb, the landing is predicted for 100 miles off shore atm
[21:48] <fsphil> signal is fading too often to decode from the Ohio station
[21:48] <jcoxon> is it 30m band causing the trouble
[21:48] <jcoxon> ?
[21:49] <fsphil> not sure, there isn't much noise -- just fades a lot
[21:49] <Colin_> might be the payload swinging - anyone know where the hf payload is in the string?
[21:51] <fsphil> and now there's some really loud signal right over bills
[21:52] <fsphil> I've no idea what that mode is, but it's using a huge chunk of bandwidth
[21:53] <jcoxon> freq?
[21:53] <fsphil> 10.143
[21:53] <fsphil> tune into the ohio station on globaltuners
[21:56] <fsphil> it's continuous too
[21:56] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps the other hams of the world got tired of hearing lat/lon
[21:56] <NigeyS> sounds odd
[21:56] <fsphil> can still hear bill's payload in the background
[21:58] <jcoxon> 30m is messy
[21:58] <fsphil> it wasn't this bad when he just launched
[21:59] <fsphil> got a partial sentence there
[21:59] <fsphil> it stopped!
[22:00] <fsphil> weird thing is, I can decode the rtty better than the dominoex
[22:00] <fsphil> aah that's much better
[22:03] <fsphil> 0,6m/s, oops
[22:03] <jcoxon> oh dear
[22:04] <Colin_> yeah, it's going to get wet
[22:04] <Dan-K2VOL> I think Louisville is just always going to be in the skip zone for Bill's HF transmitters
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[22:05] <fsphil> ah here it goes again
[22:05] <NigeyS> ow my ears
[22:06] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: 2nd ballast assembly complete, nice work Jose! #arhab http://gdzl.la/9chqJM [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/28936583520456704]
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[22:07] <fsphil> accelerating a bit, 0.9m/s
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[22:09] <fsphil> anyone tried receiving directly in the UK?
[22:09] <fsphil> unfortunately my vertical is as bad on 30m as the other bands
[22:10] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone ever check arduino free memory during runtime?
[22:18] <fsphil> hmm, silence
[22:18] <NigeyS> yups
[22:18] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i don't
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> does the stream do stop and go for you now?
[22:20] <fsphil> there we are
[22:20] <fsphil> decoded that time
[22:21] <Dan-K2VOL> nice I see you got it
[22:22] <NigeyS> me to but fdigi wont upload
[22:23] <fsphil> the ascent rate has slowed down again
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[22:23] <jcoxon> it could super-pressure
[22:23] <fsphil> you're not showing up in the raw data NigeyS, is it in online mode?
[22:24] <fsphil> that's a good chance, sunset can't be far away
[22:24] <NigeyS> yeah but my payloads boy is greyed out again, thats 3 times its done it :@
[22:24] <StrayVoltage> Rate: 76.3 m/s
[22:24] <NigeyS> box*
[22:24] <Dan-K2VOL> sun is setting now
[22:24] <StrayVoltage> :D
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> this should be an exciting ride
[22:24] <fsphil> someone else reported that earlier NigeyS -- does going to "DL Client -> Refresh Payload" do anything?
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> this is zero pressurw with ballast?
[22:24] <NigeyS> nope stays greyed out
[22:24] <NigeyS> last time i had to reinstall
[22:25] <fsphil> normal latex balloon Laurenceb_
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> wait we're gettng it in the UK?
[22:25] <Colin_> it's on HF
[22:25] <fsphil> NigeyS, close the program -- go into your profile directory, and delete dl-fldigi folder
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> thats insane
[22:26] <fsphil> I'm using globaltuners
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[22:26] <fsphil> <-- cheater
[22:26] <NigeyS> k
[22:26] <fsphil> the signal might actually be strong enough to receive in the UK, if conditions are right
[22:27] <fsphil> I should really change my location to match the receiver
[22:27] <fsphil> a lot of clicking noises -- lightning?
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[22:28] <jcoxon> hmmm i refreshed and my prediction has gone
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[22:30] <fsphil> here too
[22:30] <jcoxon> yeah we should encourage people to switch to their globaltuner loc
[22:30] <jcoxon> i'm re-downloading hte prediction
[22:30] <NigeyS> its sending but im not on the map again lol
[22:31] <jcoxon> oh that'll take time to update
[22:31] <jcoxon> it only sends your location every 15mins
[22:31] <NigeyS> yeah plus i think my gps was inputted wrongly, still odd how it randomly greys out the payload list mind, 3rd reinstall in a week :/
[22:32] <jcoxon> very strange
[22:32] <fsphil> I got two reports of that happening on the batv chat area
[22:32] <fsphil> both users using windows
[22:32] <fsphil> deleting the config gets it going again
[22:33] <NigeyS> win7 64bit here
[22:33] <fsphil> one of them was using win7 32 bit, another win2000
[22:33] <NigeyS> yeah i wiped the config files, did auto conf and its fine .. very weird
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[22:34] <NigeyS> sounds like some1 snoring...lol
[22:34] <jcoxon> still like no prediction
[22:35] <fsphil> does!
[22:35] <NigeyS> yeah it kinda vanished :|
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> bill is back xD
[22:35] <fsphil> I predict a riot
[22:35] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
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[22:38] <Colin_> Hmm.. the aprs just jumped to Spain and back
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:40] <NigeyS> predictions back james
[22:41] <jcoxon> yeah i fixed it
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[22:43] <AllenW7AS> I posted this yesterday, https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2011/Jan/GPS_Flight_Advisory_CSFTL11-01_Rel.pdf I wonder if this has anything to do with the GPS problem ????
[22:44] <Dan-K2VOL> isn't that a bitch? glad ESA is launching galileo
[22:46] <jcoxon> is there a gps problem?
[22:51] <jcoxon> hmm predictor is still broken
[22:51] <Colin_> yeah, it looks stuck
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[22:57] <jcoxon> i'm not sure why
[22:58] <jcoxon> i think it just updated for me
[22:58] <jcoxon> yeah its working
[22:58] <fsphil|m> haven't received anything from Ohio in a while
[22:58] <Colin_> only does for me when I refresh the page with the reload button
[22:59] <jcoxon> give it time Colin_
[22:59] <NigeyS> ohio is err.. weird..lol
[22:59] <Colin_> How often does the prediction update?
[22:59] <jcoxon> every few minutes
[23:06] <fsphil|m> any word from bill on the ascent speed?
[23:06] <jonsowman> evening all
[23:07] <fsphil|m> hiya jonsowman
[23:07] <jcoxon> oh dear
[23:07] <jcoxon> so predicted burst is tomorrow morning at 10:56
[23:07] <NigeyS> evening jonsowman
[23:07] <jcoxon> that doesn't allow for float
[23:08] <NigeyS> eek
[23:10] Nick change: Jasperw1 -> jasperw
[23:10] <fsphil|m> at least it has HF, there's a chance it might be tracked
[23:11] <Colin_> predicted battery life?
[23:11] <jcoxon> last flight the tx stopped working after about 20hrs
[23:11] <jcoxon> iirc
[23:12] <Colin_> Hmm.. WB9SBD thinks it's about to go out of sunlight
[23:12] <jcoxon> its also not that high
[23:13] <jcoxon> so ground sunset will be similar
[23:13] <jcoxon> at around 25km its about 40min later
[23:14] <Colin_> and it's about 7km so about 10 mins
[23:14] <Colin_> ish
[23:17] <Colin_> jcoxon: definitely something wrong with the predictor - it hasn't updated since I last refreshed the page 15 mins ago
[23:18] <NigeyS> wb8elk
[23:18] <NigeyS> Time: 2011-01-22 23:15:00
[23:18] <NigeyS> seems ok here
[23:19] <Colin_> thats the timestamp for the *balloon* not the prediction
[23:19] <jcoxon> Colin_, yeah i see - i'm really not sure whats wrong
[23:19] <jcoxon> am looking into it
[23:19] <NigeyS> ahhh duh
[23:20] <Colin_> NigeyS: if you click where the predictor line touches the balloon track you can see when it last updated
[23:20] <NigeyS> ahh got ya
[23:20] <Colin_> Time: 2011-01-22 23:01:00 for me
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[23:21] <Colin_> jcoxon: it's not doing something like alt intervals is it? my last prediction was at 6500m
[23:21] <jcoxon> no i think it might be time and delta related
[23:21] <jcoxon> as its a long flight
[23:22] <jcoxon> i really dislike the batc chat system
[23:25] <Colin_> Hmm.. I refreshed and now I don't have a prediction at all
[23:25] <jcoxon> oh yes
[23:25] <jcoxon> i've cleared the data
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[23:29] <jcoxon> hmm the tracker page is broken
[23:29] <fsphil> +1 on the batc thing .. I wonder if there's an irc server behind it
[23:29] <Colin_> yeah, I was just going to say it stopped
[23:31] <fsphil> telemetry has no altitude
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[23:32] <fsphil> gps lost it's lock?
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> abort?
[23:32] <Colin_> aprs data is still showing an alt
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[23:34] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[23:34] <fsphil> the last string had an altitude but it's not showing on the tracker
[23:34] <jcoxon> no i know
[23:35] <fsphil> urg, the next one has no altitude again
[23:35] <jcoxon> i ca't work out whats going wrong
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[23:37] <fsphil> gps is well stuck
[23:38] <fsphil> and we're back
[23:40] <Colin_> wow rate is very high
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:40] <fsphil> I think that's because of the last one being 0
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> could be a false reading
[23:41] <Colin_> another 0 Alt
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> APRS gives a full 200 kph!
[23:42] <Dan-K2VOL> it is moving!
[23:42] <Dan-K2VOL> That's the speeds we're looking for to launch trans-atlantic
[23:42] <jcoxon> that gps needs to sort itself out
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[23:43] <jcoxon> i wonder if its a 3d vs 2d lock issue
[23:44] <fsphil> it looks like it looses lock entirely
[23:44] <fsphil> I'm guessing the field after altitude is the gps sats?
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> someone wrote on the batc that probably we only have APRS now
[23:48] <jcoxon> nah WB8ELK,143,23:46:6,s142.t0,-08451.68,8834,07,8.28,-20*74
[23:48] <jcoxon> from KD0FW
[23:49] <Colin_> yup, he said he can still hear it
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[23:49] <Colin_> sounds like the skip is doing funny things in the greyline
[23:51] <jcoxon> shall i remove the 0 points?
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:56] <jcoxon> refresh spacnear.us please
[23:56] <Colin_> Hmm.. that rate is artificially high isn't it
[00:00] --- Sun Jan 23 2011