highaltitude.log.20110116

[00:05] Jasperw (~jasperw@93-97-176-250.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[00:10] zuraw (594e5ac5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.78.90.197) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[00:11] Jasperw (~jasperw@93-97-176-250.zone5.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:11] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[00:14] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif12-2-0-cust155.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[00:16] chris_99 (chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[00:32] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:33] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:34] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[00:46] KD0FXP_ (81bac071@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.186.192.113) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[00:50] Syrill (~Azrael@cpe-72-134-52-220.socal.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[01:00] shipit (~sumeet@adsl-63-200-129-20.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[01:05] juxta (juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:21] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[01:24] <juxta> ping Darkside
[01:32] <Dan-K2VOL> hello
[01:33] <juxta> hi Dan-K2VOL
[01:34] <Dan-K2VOL> how's it going juxta
[01:35] <juxta> going well thanks :)
[01:37] bgelb (~bgelb@75-147-134-62-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Ben
[01:37] <bgelb> hi
[01:37] <Dan-K2VOL> bgelb, been a long time!
[01:37] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you up to these days
[01:38] <bgelb> working mostly
[01:38] <bgelb> plugged in some of the radio stuff last couple of weeks though
[01:38] <Dan-K2VOL> enjoying it?
[01:38] <bgelb> yes, going well
[01:38] <bgelb> busy tho
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[01:39] <bgelb> not too much ballooning last couple of years
[01:39] <bgelb> was watching this flight from san diego this morning though
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> me either, I hadn't touched one since SNOX really, until this past august
[01:39] <bgelb> looked like they got a nice float going
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> ohhh the ZP flight of caviezel?
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the call
[01:39] <bgelb> KJ6ELR
[01:39] Nick change: bgelb -> Ben-N1VF
[01:40] <Dan-K2VOL> why it does look like a good float
[01:40] <Ben-N1VF> over the wrong country
[01:40] <Ben-N1VF> but... details
[01:41] <Ben-N1VF> anyhow, couldn't find any info on the flight
[01:41] <Dan-K2VOL> haha, want to see a sister balloon to that one? http://www.ustream.tv/channel/highball-1
[01:41] <Ben-N1VF> is it a caviezel balloon?
[01:41] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[01:41] <Dan-K2VOL> we arranged a bulk purchase with the professor who's flying that flight
[01:42] <Dan-K2VOL> we're doing a multi-day leak test now on one of them
[01:42] <Ben-N1VF> cool
[01:42] <Ben-N1VF> do you know any details abt that flight today
[01:43] <Ben-N1VF> like... if its supposed to stay up overnight?
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> The hackerspace in the city I live in now asked me to help them make it transatlantic back in august, so been workin hard this winter on that
[01:43] <Ben-N1VF> cool
[01:43] <Ben-N1VF> similar approach to snox?
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> good question, I doubt they have ballast, I'll find out in a minute, caviezel left me a VM a few minutes ago
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, for our program nearly identical for the first flight, and will improve on from there
[01:44] <Dan-K2VOL> however, we're using a $150, 45 gram satellite modem for telemetry
[01:44] <Dan-K2VOL> along with a backup HF
[01:44] <Ben-N1VF> makes sense
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> $150?
[01:45] <juxta> how much does data cost?
[01:45] <Dan-K2VOL> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=hardware:radio:satellite:digim10
[01:46] <Dan-K2VOL> data cost is under NDA, strangely, but I can say without revealing how much data it refers to, that a transatlantic flight should cost us about $100 for the data transfer
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> it's super lightweight (compared to other modems) and it operates on VHF with a dipole for an antenna!
[01:47] <juxta> that looks very cool
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> we've flown it once already on a latex flight, and had satellite lock for 85% of the time
[01:47] <juxta> is it bidirectional? or does it only upload data?
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> which is fantastic, as far as low cost satmodems go
[01:47] <Ben-N1VF> was just gonna ask
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> bidirectional :-)
[01:48] <juxta> wow
[01:48] <Dan-K2VOL> it's 2m
[01:48] <Dan-K2VOL> 149 MHz
[01:49] <Dan-K2VOL> we're trying to arrange better access for other balloonists, it's been a long hard negotiation to get a data plan
[01:49] <juxta> so how does it work - how do you get your data to/from it? tcp/ip over the internet?
[01:49] <Dan-K2VOL> right now, via email binary attachements
[01:50] <Dan-K2VOL> they also have an XML interface, but it turns out it's not got much more benenefit than emails
[01:51] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll be sending up 5 byte commands to it, which go fast and cheap, every 15 minutes. if it loses link for too long, and doesn't receive those constant commands, it will auto cutdown
[01:51] <Ben-N1VF> why cut down?
[01:51] <Dan-K2VOL> the telemetry downlink will use the longer variable length "message" format, which is passed through the system slower
[01:52] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll pass down location and altitude via the small packets every 15 minutes so we can keep ATC informed, and let the long science telemetry messages come through when they make it
[01:52] <Dan-K2VOL> It's part of the strategy a bunch of us long duration groups talked about a few years ago, after SNOX
[01:53] <Ben-N1VF> "positive control" or some such?
[01:53] <Dan-K2VOL> it's to mitigate the danger to aircraft, because we're floating at the airlines cruising altitude for 3 days
[01:53] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[01:53] <Ben-N1VF> makes sense i suppose
[01:53] <Dan-K2VOL> we're going to actually follow the ATC communication rules for the heavy balloons the whole time, though we don't have to
[01:54] <Ben-N1VF> still seems like an awfully low probability event...
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> does it?
[01:54] <Ben-N1VF> the sky is a pretty big place
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> if it were a normal latex balloon flight, I'd say yes
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> but it is a very crowded place where we'll be
[01:54] <Dan-K2VOL> at 34,000 ft
[01:55] <Ben-N1VF> will you be in a flight line in addition to just being at 34,000 ft?
[01:55] <Dan-K2VOL> for the North Atlantic Tracks, the paths they take across the ocean, they space planes as close as 2 miles apart there's so many
[01:56] <Ben-N1VF> would be interesting to do some simulation
[01:56] <Ben-N1VF> see what probability of collission really is
[01:56] <Dan-K2VOL> We've also got to transit through US airspace for 6 hours, going from the midwest through the eastern seaboard cities to the atlantic - and all airlines are going to be at pretty much our altitude
[01:56] <Dan-K2VOL> and ATC can't see us to route planes around us
[01:57] <Ben-N1VF> i could see why it would give them a headache
[01:57] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds like a nice thing to do
[01:57] <Ben-N1VF> yea
[01:57] <Ben-N1VF> makes perfect sense for political reasons if none else
[01:57] <Dan-K2VOL> so I think it would be a little negligent for us not to keep ATC in the loop
[01:57] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[01:58] <Dan-K2VOL> if we got clipped by a plane, the investigation afterwards would look askance at our choice to not tell ATC where we were, when we could have
[01:59] <Dan-K2VOL> and from what we've found, it's not hard to do
[01:59] <Dan-K2VOL> you just make a phone call every hour or so with your position, and predicted positions for the next hour
[01:59] <Ben-N1VF> yea, that sounds pretty easy
[02:00] <Dan-K2VOL> but how to phrase it, and who to call is buried in all kinds of hard to find FAA and ICAO documents
[02:00] <Ben-N1VF> yea
[02:00] <Ben-N1VF> my experience with notifying FAA of regular flights was that
[02:00] <Ben-N1VF> it was difficult to get an touch with anybody who seemed to care
[02:00] <Dan-K2VOL> we're hoping to provide them in a better format for others to use
[02:00] <Dan-K2VOL> haha yes
[02:01] <Dan-K2VOL> what I've found though, is once you find the right person, usually the ops manager, they will shepherd you through to the correct person for the next FAA center you need to be handed off to
[02:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Indianapolis center will give us the phone number for NY Center, NY Center will give us the number for Gander, etc
[02:02] <juxta> it's the same here in Australia
[02:02] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[02:02] <juxta> impossible to find anybody who knows what they're supposed to be doing
[02:03] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, and probably are a little skittish with NASA's balloon fuckup in Alice Springs anyway
[02:03] <juxta> haha, you'd think so, but everyone I speak to seems to have no idea
[02:03] <Dan-K2VOL> I know the crew that launches those, and I'm not surprised they had no written launch procedure
[02:03] <juxta> 'balloon? you mean like children have?'
[02:03] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[02:04] <Dan-K2VOL> just find the appropriate federal regulation numbers to cite, and tell them to go look it up
[02:04] <juxta> the legislation here is out of line
[02:04] <Dan-K2VOL> they know they ought to know the regs :-) but maybe you should be nice about it
[02:04] <Dan-K2VOL> eh?
[02:04] <Dan-K2VOL> is it consistent with the ICAO balloon rules?
[02:04] <Dan-K2VOL> the US is pretty close
[02:04] <juxta> it's based on them
[02:05] <juxta> but then they made the rules much, much stricter
[02:05] <Dan-K2VOL> really, that sucks
[02:05] <juxta> ie: if you want to fly a heavy balloon it must be followed (and kept in visible range) at all times by an aircraft
[02:06] <juxta> our regulatory body doesn't seem to care much for the rules though, they seem to do things on a case by case basis
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> Does it have to be a manned aircraft?
[02:08] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a airfix spitfire glued to the payload box.
[02:09] <Dan-K2VOL> well, for heavy that sounds reasonable to me
[02:09] <Dan-K2VOL> unless you could provide a live data feed to ATC, which would be reasonable legal update in this day nd age
[02:09] <Dan-K2VOL> you're not going to fly a heavy though
[02:11] <juxta> no - we have permission to fly in the light vategory
[02:11] <juxta> category even
[02:11] <juxta> but even then the regulation says we shouldnt be able to
[02:12] <juxta> ight balloon means a free balloon that:
[02:12] <juxta> (a) is no more than 2 metres in diameter at any time during its flight;
[02:12] <juxta> and
[02:15] <Dan-K2VOL> diameter?!?
[02:15] <Dan-K2VOL> WTF
[02:15] <juxta> yeah
[02:15] <juxta> the regs are full of stuff like that
[02:15] <Dan-K2VOL> that's terrible
[02:15] <juxta> as I said - they're not really in touch with reality
[02:15] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry to hear that juxta
[02:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I wish it was easier to have laws changed
[02:16] <juxta> it's not been a problem though, we were granted permission to fly as light
[02:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I have no idea how to in our country, the crap that gets made into laws is usually out of touch with reality here too. A real issue with an easy solution wouldn't stand a chance against the insane people in our legislature
[02:17] <Dan-K2VOL> that's cool, a blanket waiver?
[02:17] <Dan-K2VOL> (the US)
[02:17] <juxta> I'm not sure - they just cleared me for a particular launch area
[02:17] <juxta> I had to pay for approval though
[02:17] <Dan-K2VOL> oh on the stream, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/highball-1 , we inflated last night at midnight and the balloon was as the bottom of the top black bar
[02:18] <Dan-K2VOL> how much was it
[02:18] <Dan-K2VOL> that's 7° C on the thermometer
[02:18] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[02:18] <juxta> I think it cost me $200-300 or so
[02:18] <Dan-K2VOL> WHOAH
[02:18] <Dan-K2VOL> how long does that last?
[02:19] <juxta> 2 years
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL> huh, I hope you can make good use of it
[02:19] <juxta> so far we've launched 13 balloons
[02:19] <juxta> so I suppose the cost per launch hasn't been too bad
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL> good good
[02:21] <juxta> we're planning another this coming week too :)
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> BTW the digi modem works worldwide
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> it's on the Orbcomm network
[02:22] <juxta> oh nice
[02:22] <juxta> something to keep in mind for longer flights then
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> http://orbservices.orbcomm.net/WH/DisplayCoverageMap
[02:24] <Dan-K2VOL> looks like satellite B3 is over you now juxta
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> there are multiple rings of satellites, in different angled orbits
[02:25] <juxta> that's a great map
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> the orbits, or planes, are color coded, and they move around differently all the time
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> it is!
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> you'll see it move in a few minutes
[02:25] <Dan-K2VOL> they go pretty quickly, they're in low earth orbit
[02:25] <juxta> yeah, it updated just now
[02:26] <Dan-K2VOL> where are you generally on the Australian continent
[02:26] <juxta> D6 looks like it would be working hard right now, as does Q1
[02:26] <juxta> here: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=adelaide&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=49.950825,99.404297&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Adelaide+South+Australia&t=h&z=10
[02:27] <Dan-K2VOL> you won't get any link outside of the footprint circles, in fact, in a lot of the circle you won't get a connection. with it using a vertical dipole, the usual time when you get a connection with the sat is when the sat is between 20° and 50° above your local horizon
[02:27] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[02:28] <Dan-K2VOL> the odd thing about the Orbcomm network is that it doesn't pass messages between satellites
[02:28] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[02:29] <juxta> yeah, figured there might be considerations with regards to antennas & sat elevation
[02:29] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:29] <Dan-K2VOL> the usually have to be in range of you AND their base stations, which are scattered around the world
[02:29] <juxta> hmm - that's odd, how do they get back to earth then? relayed via terrestrial stations?
[02:29] <juxta> ah, hmm
[02:29] <Dan-K2VOL> like a dumb relay repeater
[02:29] <Dan-K2VOL> not the best design
[02:30] <juxta> I guess that keeps it affordable though
[02:30] <Dan-K2VOL> they have a store and forward message capablity, but it's expensive, and very complicated for the balloon to figure out -
[02:31] <Dan-K2VOL> to send a store and forward message, you must address the satellite by name, and tell it which terrestrial station to downlink your message to. Do you realize how difficult knowing which ground station to downlink to will be?
[02:31] <Dan-K2VOL> you have to know where the satellite is going!
[02:31] <juxta> oh gosh, haha
[02:31] <juxta> that would be very tricky
[02:31] <Dan-K2VOL> and if you get it wrong, it could be more than 24 hours before it actually encounters all ground stations again
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> useless for ballooning
[02:32] <juxta> I think natrium42 mentioned he was playing with sat comms via the Iridium network
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> well, useless for 1-2 day ballooning
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah iridium has sat-to-sat messaging
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> much better network
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> but their cheapest modem is $450
[02:32] <Dan-K2VOL> and it's much heavier
[02:33] <Dan-K2VOL> for the xatlantic crossing though, we've discovered that the sats will be pretty much in contact with the eastern US and western Eur gateways almost the whole time
[02:34] <juxta> does it matter where they come out?
[02:35] <juxta> isn't there a way to have it come down to earth whever the sat picks, then relay it via terrestrial networks back to you?
[02:35] <Dan-K2VOL> not for the store-and-forward messages
[02:35] <Dan-K2VOL> it's idiotic
[02:35] <Dan-K2VOL> once it hits the ground station it gets emailed to us
[02:35] <juxta> :(
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL> but for the cost, I think it's worth the hassle
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL> and I'm going to release the source code to do it with
[02:37] <juxta> what sort of flight computer are you running on the payload?
[02:37] <Dan-K2VOL> which is important, as the Digi modem is incredibly complicated to communicate with serially
[02:37] <Dan-K2VOL> but you can do it simply with just a few of it's myriad of commands, it's just really unclear which few you need to implement
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL> it's an Arduino
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL> a FIO model on a custom PCB we made, the Digi uses a funky connector that's only available surface mount
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL> you can buy it already on a PCB though
[02:39] <Dan-K2VOL> which I'd recommend for anyone trying to program with it, it breaks out all the debug pins and things
[02:45] <Ben-N1VF> is the orbcomm link encrypted?
[03:13] Syrill (~Azrael@cpe-72-134-52-220.socal.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:17] <Ben-N1VF> http://mdkenny.customer.netspace.net.au/Orbcomm.pdf
[03:49] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) joined #highaltitude.
[04:12] Hibby (~Sven@unaffiliated/hibby) left irc: Quit: connection reset by queer
[04:27] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[04:36] SpikeUK (~chatzilla@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/spikeuk) joined #highaltitude.
[04:56] DarkCow (~DarkCow@5ad9ea12.bb.sky.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[05:04] kd0fxp (WhiteNoise@ics174-239.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:05] SpikeUK (~chatzilla@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/spikeuk) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]
[05:06] <Dan-K2VOL> no Ben-N1VF it's not
[05:06] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@69.64.6.70) left irc: Quit: Dan-K2VOL
[05:44] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[05:57] <shenki> juxta: ping
[06:28] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[07:16] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[07:41] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Quit: leaving
[07:46] unenana (~unenana@ANantes-552-1-149-251.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[07:47] unenana (~unenana@ANantes-552-1-149-251.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Client Quit
[07:54] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[08:15] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:23] DagoRed (~dago@207-172-35-190.c3-0.eas-ubr15.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) left irc: Quit: keep it coming!
[09:18] slothearn (~euclid@71.173.193.103) left irc: Quit: Lost terminal
[09:44] juxta|console (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[09:51] Colin_ (~Colin@207.125.2.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[09:53] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[09:55] Colin_ (~Colin@207.125.2.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[10:02] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[10:39] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:40] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - PicoAtlas launch 17/01/11 ~1200GMT from Churchill College, Cambridge
[10:40] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:44] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[10:44] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:17] laurence_ (~laurence@host86-130-229-52.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:19] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-130-229-52.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:27] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:49] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:50] <jcoxon> morning all
[11:50] <jonsowman> morning jcoxon
[11:50] <jonsowman> we're on for tomorrow then :)
[11:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:50] <jcoxon> just charging the lipo now
[11:50] <jonsowman> I've emailed chu to make sure it's ok for us to pick up the He keys
[11:51] <jcoxon> takes ages it seems
[11:51] <jonsowman> haven't got a reply on that but should be alright
[11:51] <jcoxon> so my think is:
[11:51] <jcoxon> meet at 11.30
[11:51] <jcoxon> make sure payload is working etc
[11:52] <jcoxon> indoors carefully weigh payload + additional lift mass
[11:52] <jcoxon> then in a sheltered area fill the balloon, make sure it can lift the payload
[11:52] <jcoxon> walk it out and let go
[11:52] <jcoxon> track until it floats
[11:52] <jcoxon> then i'll head off east to my parents where i'll be able to track it for longer
[11:53] <jonsowman> sounds good to me
[11:53] <jonsowman> can you meet us at CUED at 11.30 then?
[11:53] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:53] <jonsowman> we can use the lab to weigh and make sure everything's working well
[11:53] <jcoxon> i've got my micro scales
[11:53] <jonsowman> excellent
[11:53] <jcoxon> its a shame i'm working on wednesday
[11:54] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/float-prediction/
[11:54] <jcoxon> some awesome float profiles
[11:54] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[11:54] <fsphil> that's gonna travel some distance
[11:55] <jonsowman> hehe some of those are great
[11:55] <fsphil> I like the one that heads over france, and swings back and heads for spain
[11:56] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:56] <jcoxon> well lets see if this works
[11:56] <jcoxon> then we can try these out another day
[11:56] <jcoxon> jonsowman, we should try and be accurate with measures
[11:56] <jcoxon> it'll come in useful
[11:57] <jcoxon> we could fill the balloon fully and see how much lift we get
[11:57] <jcoxon> then release a little
[12:01] <jonsowman> yea
[12:01] <jonsowman> that sounds like a wise plan
[12:01] <jcoxon> we've got 2 new balloon
[12:01] <jcoxon> s
[12:02] <jonsowman> cool :)
[12:02] <jcoxon> jonsowman, will they get annoyed if i park at CUED?
[12:03] <jonsowman> I've never tried
[12:04] <jonsowman> I don't really know, sorry
[12:04] <jcoxon> we'll work it out
[12:04] <jonsowman> I can ask at reception when we get there and text to let you know
[12:04] <jcoxon> yeah please
[12:05] <jonsowman> okay will do
[12:05] <jcoxon> do you have my number?
[12:05] <jonsowman> yup
[12:05] <jonsowman> :)
[12:05] <jcoxon> could you remind me of yours
[12:05] <jcoxon> not sure i have it
[12:05] <jonsowman> PM :)
[12:05] <jonsowman> right I must be off, heading back to cam
[12:05] <jonsowman> bbl
[12:05] <jcoxon> cya
[12:07] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: PicoAtlas - Launch: Monday 17/1/2011 ~ 12:00UTC"
[12:07] <jcoxon> bbl
[12:07] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[12:20] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[12:35] Hibby (~Sven@unaffiliated/hibby) joined #highaltitude.
[12:57] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[12:59] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:01] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[13:15] Hibby (~Sven@unaffiliated/hibby) left irc: Quit: Probably best if I hide from IRC and try to pass these exams...
[13:19] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:23] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[13:27] earthshine (~Mike@cpc3-orpi1-0-0-cust867.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:28] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] juxta|console (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:54] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[14:33] MI6VIM (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[14:38] Hibby (~Sven@unaffiliated/hibby) joined #highaltitude.
[14:47] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[14:50] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[15:33] jiffe98 (~jiffe98@209.159.247.189) joined #highaltitude.
[16:00] W0OTM (~SAID@173-23-66-65.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Quit: W0OTM
[16:08] gb73d (gb73d@79-79-184-107.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:15] Jasperw (~jasperw@93-97-176-250.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:19] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@74-142-133-23.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:25] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[16:35] <griffonbot> Received email: "Matt" <matt@casadelkarma.com> "RE: PicoAtlas - Launch: Monday 17/1/2011 ~ 12:00UTC"
[16:59] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:59] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@74-142-133-23.dhcp.insightbb.com) left irc: Quit: Dan-K2VOL
[17:13] <griffonbot> Received email: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville@btinternet.com> "Re: PicoAtlas - Launch: Monday 17/1/2011 ~ 12:00UTC"
[17:14] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[17:15] <laurence_> hi
[17:15] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> blerg what a horrible afternoon
[17:15] Action: Laurenceb_ has just finished cleaning the sewage off himself
[17:16] <Randomskk> that does sound rather horrible
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: So your day is improving?
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> yes
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> got worken up by neighbours to say there was sewage bubbling out of their floor
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> things got rather nasty with them saying it was our fault
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> environmental health + water board got called and they wanted to dig the floor up :(
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> despite the fact sewer drained on opposite direction
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> i ended up having to dig down from their patio
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> managed to unblock it with a rod from an inspection thing in the side - turds everywhere :S
[17:21] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Was it on your side, or theirs?
[17:22] <Laurenceb_> theirs
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> I suppose no apology, or offer of funding for unblocking their drain?
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> nope, they do seem slightly less annoyed now
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> They're full of shit.
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> i guess its only to be expected that they would be a little mad with sewage coming through the floor, but I would have expected water board and environmental health to be slightly more sensible
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> lol
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> Ask if they had insurance for their drains, then submit an invoice.
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> well at least I dont have to work for dyna-rod :P
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> they called insurance first and apparently not
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> if I'd been out environmental health would have got the water board to break in and dig the floor up to fix a sewer that actually goes under the neighbours garden
[17:28] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[17:34] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[17:34] Dan-K2VOL (~dbowen1@69.64.6.70) left irc: Client Quit
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: On the bus pirate - pondering getting one - I just have enough credit.
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Did you get round the no bus hold problem?
[17:37] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-130-229-52.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:38] GW8RAK (56176601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.102.1) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:42] <jcoxon> evening
[17:42] <gb73d> theres a talk at my local ham clun in feb or mar about balloon telemetry am looking fwd to that 1
[17:42] <gb73d> club
[17:47] <LazyLeopard> Next two meetings at my local club will be rivetting stuff... The AGM in January, and Programme Planning in February... *eyeroll*
[17:48] <LazyLeopard> Stll, there's a talk on LEO satellites in March, so all is not lost. ;)
[17:48] DagoRed (~dago@207-172-35-190.c3-0.eas-ubr15.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:49] <Zuph> A short writeup of our Pitot tube build to measure balloon volume: http://whitestarballoon.com/?p=335
[17:49] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-130-229-52.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:50] <jcoxon> Zuph, cool
[17:50] <Zuph> Yep, we think it worked pretty well :)
[17:50] <jcoxon> was the balloon okay?
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: Did you calibrate it in any way - or are you assuming from first principles?
[17:52] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: We calibrated according to the instructions on the datasheet. Going to make a manometer in the near future to verify over the range tested.
[17:52] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> I mean the gas volume.
[17:52] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[17:52] <jcoxon> hmmm my lipo charges at 100mAh and i've got a 2000mAh
[17:53] <Zuph> Oh, nope. We couldn't think of any good, easy, cheap way to do that.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: hmm. Large refuse bag, hooked to nozzle, and fill it by some metered means.
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> then time.
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> But good work!
[17:55] <Zuph> How to meter it, though?
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> I would use a paddling pool inflator pump I have that does 4l or so on a pump
[17:57] <Zuph> Ah
[17:58] <Zuph> Here's another idea: Buy a known quantity of dry ice, let it sublimate, then suck it out.
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> that works too.
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> Or natural gas.
[17:59] Action: SpeedEvil was investigating a bit back how to store 2-3 years of natural gas use.
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Alas, not practical.
[17:59] <Zuph> heh
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> (It's a half of the price if you buy a lot)
[17:59] <Zuph> Natural gas through a sparky shop vac? Sounds like a recipe for disaster :)
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> np: Europe - Final Countdown.
[18:02] <natrium42> lol
[18:06] jasonb (~jasonb@c-67-164-88-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:07] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:09] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[18:10] <jcoxon> back in 1 minute
[18:10] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[18:14] <natrium42> already 3 minutes :(
[18:14] <natrium42> that's how he left me too, just went for a pack of cigarettes...
[18:14] <fsphil> I'm not a big fan of python, but it's really easy to hack together small scripts with it. have the IRC channel text being sent to an LCD -- pretty nifty
[18:15] jasonb (~jasonb@c-67-164-88-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[18:17] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:17] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy got your message
[18:20] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: OK on timing?
[18:21] <natrium42> jcoxon! \o/
[18:21] <natrium42> the man with a plan
[18:22] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, yeah, i'm meeting the guys at CUED to head up to chu at 12:00
[18:23] <jcoxon> i'm quite worried we'll lose reception as its not going to fly very high
[18:23] <RocketBoy> I'll meet u at chu
[18:23] <fsphil> you may need to setup base somewhere with a bit of altitude
[18:23] <RocketBoy> yeah - have you go an estimate of altitude?
[18:24] <jcoxon> i'm thinking between 3 and 5km
[18:24] <jcoxon> but we are using bigger balloons
[18:24] <jcoxon> so perhaps higher
[18:27] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah i can do that
[18:27] <jcoxon> but i think i should wait to make sure it floats before setting off
[18:27] <fsphil> yea!
[18:28] <RocketBoy> 5km hight - should be OK for 100Km methinks
[18:28] <jcoxon> http://radarproblems.com/calculators/horizon.htm
[18:28] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:29] <fsphil> nice link
[18:29] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:29] <RocketBoy> yeah in practice it'll be less due to local obstructions close to the ground
[18:30] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:30] <jcoxon> we'll just have to see
[18:31] <RocketBoy> yep
[18:31] <fsphil> for >500km the payload needs to be above 15km for reception here -- that pretty much matches my experience
[18:31] <RocketBoy> what direction will it be going?
[18:31] <jcoxon> east
[18:31] <jcoxon> norfolk and on wards then skimming netherlands onto denmark
[18:32] <jcoxon> its really a test that they actually float
[18:32] <jcoxon> in future if it works i'll be more careful with the flight path
[18:32] <RocketBoy> ah - cool - after launch I'll scuttle back home and see if I can get it there
[18:32] <fsphil> what kind of ascent rate are you targeting?
[18:32] <RocketBoy> any idea if the expected speed?
[18:33] <jcoxon> i was thinking as little as possible - any thoughts?
[18:33] <jcoxon> basically the less helium we put in the higher it'll go
[18:33] <jcoxon> as it gives us more volume to expand into
[18:33] <RocketBoy> and the less likly it will e to burst
[18:36] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:36] RocketBoy (~steverand@212.183.128.42) joined #highaltitude.
[18:37] <jcoxon> ground winds 7mph
[18:37] <jcoxon> but i think it'll go a bit faster higher
[18:39] RocketBoy_ (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] <fsphil> I'll be stuck at work but will keep an eye on the channel :)
[18:39] <jcoxon> if only i had 2 radios
[18:40] <jcoxon> i would have setup an advance station
[18:40] <fsphil> aah if there was more time I could have leant you my 790
[18:40] <jcoxon> getting a 790 radio controlled is a challenge
[18:40] <Hibby> launch tomorrow?
[18:41] <jcoxon> and my ft817 is required for my yagi
[18:41] <jcoxon> Hibby, yeah though low altitude
[18:41] <Hibby> ah, k
[18:42] <jcoxon> just need a station in norfolk
[18:42] <jcoxon> that'll help loads
[18:42] RocketBoy (~steverand@212.183.128.42) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[18:42] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[18:45] <jcoxon> anyone know a ham in norfolk who would listen out ?
[18:45] <jcoxon> jonsowman, Randomskk - thoughts on filling a small balloon with our normal large filling setup
[18:50] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[18:59] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54882470.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:59] <natrium42> alles krass, Lunar_Lander?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> klar und bei dir natrium42 :D?
[19:00] <natrium42> konkret
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yay :D
[19:01] <natrium42> wie gehts mit dem project?
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> oh, das geht gut
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> elektronik wird gebaut
[19:02] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif12-2-0-cust155.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:02] <natrium42> welches mikro?
[19:02] <NigeyS> meep meep
[19:02] Action: natrium42 throws dynamite at NigeyS
[19:02] <NigeyS> owwwww
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:04] Action: NigeyS cries
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42 I have to look which specific µC we'll have
[19:05] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/14/global_observer_first_hydrogen_flight/
[19:15] W7AS (46a26659@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.162.102.89) joined #highaltitude.
[19:18] <NigeyS> i think ive found another meteor
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> Did it knock you out, and you came awake to realise you could fly?
[19:19] <NigeyS> haha noo, its on a new image i did of m40 couple of nights ago, going to have to follow up tonight
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:19] <fsphil> I'll have to try imaging something like that sometime
[19:19] <fsphil> what camera are you using?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> good keyword
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Also - isn't a meteor somthing that's hit the atmosphere?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> is there anyone who used that Canon programming kit?
[19:20] <natrium42> yes, me
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> a) is it difficult? b) why are almost none of the available cameras on ebay?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> like the SD80 for example
[19:21] <natrium42> you mean the powershot sdk?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:21] <NigeyS> fsphil,
[19:21] <NigeyS> FLI ProLine PL11002M CCD camera
[19:21] <natrium42> ah, canon is being retarded
[19:21] <natrium42> now they only support remote usb capture for their dslrs
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:21] <natrium42> not the consumer cameras
[19:21] <NigeyS> Scope is a CDK17 is a 17 inch (0.43 m) f/6.8
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> so no more CHDK?
[19:21] <fsphil> oooh good camera
[19:21] chembrow (~chris@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:22] <fsphil> oooh good scope
[19:22] <natrium42> chdk is something else
[19:22] <NigeyS> not my scope, its a remote scope i use in spain
[19:22] <fsphil> aaah
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:22] <NigeyS> awsome piece of kit mind
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> and,um, is there a good camera with comes with a auto-interval function?
[19:22] <NigeyS> ideal for meteor / comet hunting
[19:22] <fsphil> I'm gonna have to take my scope up the mountain, try and image a balloon flight
[19:23] <NigeyS> that would be very interesting phil
[19:23] <fsphil> impossible more like :) but would be a good day out
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Someone's gotten a balloon burst.
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> That was cool.
[19:24] <fsphil> I think I seen that
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> btw did you see the new flight of Project Soar?
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> where their load line failed due to payload spin
[19:26] <NigeyS> fsphil, http://www.nigey.co.uk/astro/meteor-candidate-1-m40.png
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> asteroid candidate surely
[19:27] <NigeyS> checking some archived images of that area, i dont see it there im my images from this time last ear, possibility looks good
[19:27] <NigeyS> the large blob above it is a nice quasar
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> what's your scope?
[19:29] <fsphil> strange to think that you might be the first person to have ever detected it
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/papers/confocal/
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> ^interesting
[19:31] <NigeyS> my home scope is an 8inch schmidt cassegrain, the rental scope is spain is a 17inch planewave
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> rental scope?
[19:33] <NigeyS> www.global-rent-a-scope.com
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:34] <NigeyS> unfortunately i cant afford my own 17inch and tbh where i live it wouldnt be worth the investment, way to much light pollution
[19:34] <NigeyS> i know the guys at gras aswell so i get freebies lol
[19:35] <fsphil> I was looking at a dark sky map this-morning -- there seems to be a good spot about 15 miles north-west of here
[19:36] <NigeyS> lucky git, i have to go right into the black mountains to get GOOD dark skies, and even an 8inch scope is pretty cumbersome to move about
[19:37] <fsphil> easy to forget a part too!
[19:38] <fsphil> I dragged out a few people with the scope one night, only to forget the visual back -- couldn't use any eyepieces!
[19:39] DarkCow (~DarkCow@5ad9ea12.bb.sky.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:41] <NigeyS> lmao oh dear, theres alot to remember mind, i use the laptop to control mine, if i forget a cable, thats it, tough luck :(
[19:42] <fsphil> they still don't let me forget about that
[19:45] <fsphil> how do you deal with the optics fogging up?
[19:49] jonsowman_mob (~jonsowman@128.232.129.167) joined #highaltitude.
[19:49] <NigeyS> dew heaters
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42
[19:49] <NigeyS> worth their weight in gold
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I just found that many Nikon Coopix come with interval shutters
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> *Coolpix
[19:49] <fsphil> they really work that well?
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know, I just hit google with "Automatic interval camera"
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I'd need to look further
[19:52] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[19:54] jonsowman_mob (~jonsowman@128.232.129.167) left irc: Quit: leaving
[19:54] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[19:55] <NigeyS> fsphil, yup
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS did you test the Nikons?
[19:59] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: you could just use camera trigger interface
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> you mean the settings menu in the camera?
[20:00] <natrium42> semi-professional cameras and up should have them
[20:00] <natrium42> no, it's a phyisical trigger
[20:00] <natrium42> you connect a cable to it
[20:00] <natrium42> so that you don't bump the camera when shooting a picture
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> like these rubber balls the photographers had in the 1900s?
[20:02] <natrium42> not sure
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> but it sounds like this is expensive?
[20:04] <natrium42> nah
[20:04] <natrium42> i got some RF ones from ebay
[20:04] <natrium42> but you want wired ones anyway
[20:05] <natrium42> they should cost almost nothing
[20:05] <natrium42> just make sure that camera has trigger interface
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> can you give me an example please?
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> so that I don't have to spend hours researching camera models
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> that would be cool natrium42 :)
[20:09] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if kepler may find outer-solar-system bodies.
[20:15] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:16] george7378 (5b7d8bff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.139.255) joined #highaltitude.
[20:16] <george7378> Hello?
[20:19] <george7378> ?
[20:19] <natrium42> Greetings stranger
[20:19] <jcoxon> hello
[20:21] <george7378> Hi.
[20:21] <george7378> I'm George - I'm interested in doing my first balloon flight, just trying to gather info.
[20:21] <jcoxon> you've come to the right place
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42 ?
[20:22] <george7378> :) I'm 16, and my friends and I would like to try a balloon flight.
[20:22] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[20:22] <george7378> What is the cheapest we could do it for?
[20:22] <jcoxon> depends where you are based
[20:22] <george7378> We are interested in taking some pictures with a digital camera at high altitudes.
[20:22] MI6VIM (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:22] <george7378> We're in the UK, Lincolnshire.
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> george7378: 20 quid or so
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> george7378: but 100 is more sane
[20:22] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, hehe, more then that
[20:23] <jcoxon> you are looking at about 150 i reckon
[20:23] <george7378> I've just come across this site: http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Engineering/Balloons.html
[20:23] fsphil|m (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:219:d2ff:fe09:a6b9) joined #highaltitude.
[20:23] <george7378> They have some cheap balloons.
[20:23] <NigeyS> jcoxon, !!
[20:23] <george7378> £150? That's cheaper than I thought!
[20:23] <NigeyS> i mightve found another "object" :D
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> george7378 btw
[20:23] <jcoxon> it all depends
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> the "owner" of that website just left :(
[20:23] <jcoxon> on how you approach it
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> 20 would be a 'party balloon' 80cm or so in diameter, and a ebay camera for video, and a postcard to notify you it's bwwn found.
[20:23] <george7378> Oh, right.
[20:24] <jcoxon> george7378, so you'll need a GPS module
[20:24] <george7378> Could you direct me to the common suppliers? I have no idea where to start looking for equipment.
[20:24] <jcoxon> and a mico controller
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> 150 gets you a reasonably capable thing likely of being tracked all the way down to impact - or reasonably close to.
[20:24] <jcoxon> then you'll need to chose a form of communication
[20:24] <jcoxon> such as radio
[20:24] <NigeyS> impact sounds scary SpeedEvil ! lol
[20:24] <george7378> I also found this GPS module: http://www.dpieshop.com/trimble-lassen-iq-12-channel-gps-module-p-237.html
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Semaphore hasn't been used enough.
[20:25] <jcoxon> convienitnely i've written you a guide:
[20:25] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: wow - that was fast!
[20:25] <jcoxon> ignore the stuff about 'micropayloads' this can be applied to normal flights
[20:25] Action: SpeedEvil submits jcoxon to the Guinness Book of Records for typing.
[20:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:25] <NigeyS> lol
[20:25] <jcoxon> right pico is working great
[20:25] <jcoxon> just needs a wrap of bubble wrap before flight
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon do you think that could smash the altitude record?
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> that 39 something km?
[20:26] <jcoxon> yeah could do
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:26] <jcoxon> for that i could get it much lighter
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: the exact fill you need isn't simple.
[20:26] <fsphil|m> that would be a neat target
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> I know
[20:27] <jcoxon> change the micro processor + a smaller battery
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: there are indications that an underfilled balloon will do superpressure. Which screws you for high altitude.
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:27] <fsphil|m> also continently uses less gas :)
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I remember a report on a balloon that took 4 hours to reach altitude
[20:27] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if adding air to the helium may actually improve ultimate altitude.
[20:27] <george7378> Is there a location where I can find details of the equipment used on most 'cheap' balloon flights?
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> and it looked like it didn't want to burst at all
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> but SpeedEvil
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> umm
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> no, silly thought, nvm
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the more polite expression for "isn't simple" :P?
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: requires additional funding.
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> I was after that one "non-trivial"
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> It's used in all the best scientific papers.
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> george7378 did you already find "Project Soar"?
[20:29] <george7378> Not yet - where can I find it?
[20:29] <jcoxon> george7378, i'd have a good read of http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> I agree with jcoxon
[20:29] <george7378> Thanks for the help - any little bits of info appreciated!
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> and here is it: http://www.mikedeep.com/Project-Soar/Sunrise-Soar-II-Writeup/14005549_4jWYh
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> thing is that they used hydrogen
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> and that in the US, the regulations for a balloon are different than in europe
[20:30] <george7378> Yes - I understand in the UK you need to get permission from the CAA and then notify the local ATC before launch.
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon what do you think about those old balloons the soar-team used?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> i found a dealer on ebay for these
[20:32] <jcoxon> don't like them at all
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they look strange
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> but I bought two of them
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> maybe they can be used for a test or so
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw did anyone of you ever wrote an e-mail to kaymont and got an answer?
[20:34] <jcoxon> they are particularly bad at replying
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder how they do the sales?
[20:35] george7378 (5b7d8bff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.139.255) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> maybe they jump up when someone writes "With this letter I would like to order..."
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[20:44] GW8RAK (56176601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.102.1) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[20:45] W7AS (46a26659@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.162.102.89) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[20:45] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> http://alphagfx.com/index.php?lang=en&page=is_ubuntu_crap
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> It's refreshing to see some people biting off _so_much_ more than they can chew.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> mrdata - doesn't understand inductors, but wants to build a rocket powered by magnetically confined fusion.
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[21:10] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:15] gb73d (gb73d@79-79-184-107.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Quit: Whoosh we're gone
[21:21] <fsphil|m> grrr, fractions
[21:22] <fsphil|m> fldigi records at 8000hz, my baud rate is 300 == fractional symbol length
[21:22] <russss> finally finished this http://apollo11.spacelog.org/
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> the website is quite nice
[21:25] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> Trollface
[21:25] Nick change: Trollface -> Troll_face
[21:26] Nick change: Troll_face -> Laurenceb_
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:46] <fsphil|m> hmm.. actually the baud rate of hadie was 288.029
[21:53] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[21:53] <Randomskk> for the new tracker interface, what do people of essentially using the new predictor style
[21:54] <Randomskk> a full screen map, and movable windows for the UI stuff
[21:54] <Randomskk> with that kind of styling
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk what exactly do you mean? "what do people of essentially using the new predictor style"
[21:54] <Randomskk> oh
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> does that miss a "think" in the sentence?
[21:54] <Randomskk> I meant to insert the word "think" there, yes
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah :D
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, that would be nice if the tracker would look like the predictor 2.0
[21:56] <Randomskk> hopefully we will soon be working on the frontend for the new tracker
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> and the predictor should have a float function
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> and yeah, some kind of printing mode would be nice too
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> if that is possible
[21:57] <Randomskk> hmm. I don't.. I don't know why not
[21:57] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: those are both on the todo list
[21:57] <Randomskk> printing is?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> that is nice :D
[21:57] <Randomskk> I just added it
[21:57] <jonsowman> Randomskk: static image output
[21:57] <Randomskk> I guess that's basically the same thing
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh nice!
[21:58] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: they will get done eventually hehe
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I just saw the "Use Burst Calculator"
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :D
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> hey btw
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> I got an e-mail from a guy at Wright-Patterson AFB
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> he is with the USAF school of technology or something like that
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> and he said that he came across my website when looking for info on HAB and he wanted to know how to determine the possible trajectory of the balloon
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I gave him the link to habhub :P
[21:59] <Randomskk> nice
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:00] <jonsowman> :)
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> but the conditions aren't that good there currently
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> the balloons would descend in some mountainous forest area in West Virginia
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw I thought about a "passive" experiment
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> record the predicted landing coordinates and the actual landing coordinates from the GPS
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> and figure out the great circle distance between the two spots
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> with every flight you get a more accurate figure of predictor accuracy
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[22:03] <Randomskk> yea, I've wanted to do this.
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> predicted at various stages
[22:03] <Randomskk> the new tracker should be able to easily store that kind of information
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> T-48, T-24, T+1, ...
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:03] chembrow (chris@188-221-15-153.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left #highaltitude.
[22:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon.sowman@gmail.com> "CU Spaceflight Predictor Feature Additions"
[22:05] <jonsowman> oh damn, my signature still says "2010". oh well
[22:06] Action: jonsowman edits signature
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> the bot alerts you when you receive e-mails?
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> that's cool :D
[22:13] <juxta> ping shenki
[22:16] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc:
[22:27] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[22:28] RocketBoy (~steverand@212.183.128.110) joined #highaltitude.
[22:28] <fsphil|m> woo, recovered one more image packet
[22:28] <Randomskk> nice
[22:29] <fsphil|m> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/images/2011-01-09--12-53-36-hadie-07.jpeg
[22:30] <Randomskk> oh wow, nice
[22:30] <Randomskk> that looks insane curvature, fisheye lens at all?
[22:30] <fsphil|m> twas!
[22:30] <fsphil|m> it was only 7km up
[22:30] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:30] <Randomskk> looks higher :P
[22:31] <The-Compiler> fsphil|m: still didn't find the payload?
[22:32] <fsphil|m> afraid not -- I was hoping people would be walking through the area over the weekend, and might spot it
[22:32] RocketBoy_ (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[22:32] <The-Compiler> :/
[22:32] <The-Compiler> fsphil|m: gather some online communities, offer them free beer, and let them search for you :P
[22:33] <fsphil|m> mmmm beer
[22:34] RocketBoy (~steverand@212.183.128.110) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[22:34] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[22:34] <fsphil|m> actually I meant to email the "Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority"
[22:34] <fsphil|m> tell them to keep an eye out for it
[22:35] <The-Compiler> email google and get them to make new satellite imagery :P
[22:35] <fsphil|m> haha, if only
[22:36] KD0FXP_ (81bac071@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.186.192.113) joined #highaltitude.
[22:36] <The-Compiler> well I'll go to sleep now
[22:36] <fsphil|m> g'nite!
[22:37] <The-Compiler> thanks, and don't give up ;)
[22:39] RocketBoy_ (~steverand@212.183.128.47) joined #highaltitude.
[22:41] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[22:42] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[22:42] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[22:45] RocketBoy_ (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[22:48] RocketBoy (~steverand@212.183.128.47) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[22:48] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[22:51] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[22:51] slothearn (~euclid@71.173.193.103) joined #highaltitude.
[23:08] rjmunro (~chatzilla@87.127.91.51) joined #highaltitude.
[23:14] W7AS (46a26659@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.162.102.89) joined #highaltitude.
[23:16] <W7AS> In the US we need to also get a NOTAM from the FCC to launch most HAB, see the rules for the US, http://www.eoss.org/pubs/far_annotated.htm
[23:17] <W7AS> OPPS, My Typo, Get a NOTAM from the FAA, not FCC, My BAD
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Apply to the INS, they deal with things that might cross borders too.
[23:19] <NigeyS> T -3 hours 6 minutes yey!
[23:20] <W7AS> No, Not that bad, Not yet !!!
[23:21] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[23:21] <fsphil> NigeyS, sounds important!
[23:22] <NigeyS> ya, 2:25am i have reserved telescope time for the follow up images
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Of?
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> how much?
[23:23] <NigeyS> an hour .. its all i need
[23:23] <NigeyS> 2 images 30 mins apart, should show if the object moves
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> I meant - how much financially.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Or do they demand payment in salt?
[23:24] <NigeyS> ahh this time is free normally, ya looking at about £45 an hour
[23:24] <russss> what is this? sounds exciting
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Cheapish, I suppose.
[23:24] <NigeyS> remote telescope
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Though that's a large slice of my monthly food bill ATM. :)
[23:24] <NigeyS> it is compared to buying the kit myself, would would be about £90k
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> This is what size of scope?
[23:25] <NigeyS> 17" planewave
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Does that count the observatory in space?
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> spain
[23:25] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:25] <NigeyS> no, thats kit only, you'd be looking at £2,000 a month to rent space for hosting the scope at a remote observatory
[23:25] <russss> telescopes are expensive business
[23:26] <NigeyS> astronomy = bloody expensive hobby!
[23:26] Action: SpeedEvil has a rough 12" blank.
[23:26] <NigeyS> oo get that thing ground and polished mr! hehe
[23:26] <NigeyS> 12" f5 .. 1/6th wave mmm
[23:27] <russss> I didn't want to get involved but the gf bought me a scope for christmas so now I'm obliged to use it.
[23:27] Action: russss saw it as a fairly pointless endeavour in London but having been bought a telescope now intends to prove himself wrong.
[23:27] <NigeyS> haha awsome, what size scope ?
[23:28] <russss> one of these http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=62&ProdID=427
[23:29] <NigeyS> oooo get that thing to a nice dark site, you'd be surprised with the results!
[23:30] <russss> heh yeah, it's quite heavy.
[23:30] <russss> I've only had one clear night on my roof so far, and there were no planets to look at!
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> There is always one.
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> It's a question if you can depress far enough though.
[23:31] <NigeyS> look south west .. birhgt star looking thing .. jupiter :)
[23:32] <NigeyS> russss, dont forget about cool down time
[23:32] <NigeyS> chuck the scope out an hour or 2 b4 u need it, makes a huge difference
[23:35] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[23:37] <fsphil> +1 that advice
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> But make sure you don't forget, and it comes on to rain.
[23:39] <NigeyS> haha yeah telescopes do not like rain!
[23:39] <russss> I wonder if I could build some kind of waterproof box on my roof to keep it in
[23:39] <russss> that would get it out of the house too
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> lift roof 3", place on a swivel, add a slot.
[23:41] <russss> lol
[23:41] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[23:43] <fsphil> send email to the park authority for the dales about the missing payload -- that'll likely be the oddest email they've got in a while :)
[23:43] <russss> the main problem is that the 2 or 3 nights that it hasn't been cloudy I haven't been able to get up onto the roof until about midnight, and all the planets have gone by then.
[23:44] <fsphil> oh if you find Jupiter in a scope, Uranus is not far away at the moment. Saw it for the first time ever last week
[23:46] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[23:46] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:46] <NigeyS> ya, within a degre of each other
[23:46] <NigeyS> degree*
[23:46] <NigeyS> and of course, the orion nebulae is on full show :D
[23:49] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Pliades always fun
[23:54] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54882470.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
[23:56] <NigeyS> oh yes, dont forget the hyades to (sp)
[23:59] <rjmunro> I was wondering if anyone has a flight prediction for this picoatlas thing?
[00:00] --- Mon Jan 17 2011