highaltitude.log.20110115

[00:00] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Short blog on the Near Space in a Can kit. See at nearsys.blogspot.com. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/26066150131503104]
[00:01] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Reading Red Moon Rising by Matthew Brzezinski. It's a good read. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/26066358529695744]
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[01:35] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: Completed burst calculator integration, please test and report bugs! http://t.co/SVyG1PR #cusf [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/26090141260972032]
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[01:49] <amboar> /win 2
[02:00] <NigeyS> meh google base in an utter arseache
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[03:22] <NigeyS> all asleep huh
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[05:04] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: about to inflate for volumetric measurement via pitot tube in fill tube and leak test, view on ustream #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/26142671235973120]
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[05:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astrostation.at/ikreator/ast/cms_pub/file_00001187/20110104%20004%20web.jpg
[05:18] <SpeedEvil> eclipse pic. (not mine)
[05:31] <juxta|console> wow, that's a nice pic SpeedEvil
[05:34] <SpeedEvil> It is an awesome shot.
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[05:46] <Darkside> hey juxta|console
[05:49] <natrium42> hi Darkside
[05:58] <juxta|console> hey Darkside, natrium42
[05:58] <natrium42> hi juxta|console
[05:59] <juxta|console> what's new? :)
[05:59] <juxta|console> are you actually moving down to cali natrium42?
[06:00] <natrium42> nah, going to stay this semester here
[06:00] <natrium42> decided to take a class
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[06:40] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Zp inflation test pics, air inflated #arhab http://yfrog.com/h58xwvj http://yfrog.com/h57m8zj http://yfrog.com/h384766424j [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/26166818028658688]
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[08:54] <jcoxon> morning
[08:58] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:00] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, WB8ELK HF launch 15/01/11 19:30UTC
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[09:18] <jcoxon> picoatlas is still running this morning :-)
[09:19] <Randomskk> nice :)
[09:19] <jcoxon> is currently in day mode
[09:19] <Randomskk> is it in the freezer?
[09:19] <jcoxon> nah on my desk
[09:19] <Randomskk> wonder how well the lipos do in the cold
[09:19] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:21] <jcoxon> i wonder as well
[09:21] <Darkside> hmm thats a point, thats what i need to test on the VHF payload
[09:21] <jcoxon> not sure if i really want to find out
[09:21] <Darkside> battery life!
[09:23] <jcoxon> i've flown lipos before but for powering GSM so not critical
[09:27] Action: jcoxon is now worried his payload will turn off!
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[11:44] <griffonbot> Received email: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville@btinternet.com> "Re: PicoAtlas - Launch: Monday 17/1/2011 ~ 12:00UTC"
[11:55] <fsphil> I should try making a quad antenna, see if I can hear WB8ELK's launch tonight
[12:13] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: Burst calculator changes to the predictor pulled to http://t.co/lRiLwWc - check it out and report bugs! #cusf [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/26250594251440128]
[12:18] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: RT @jonsowman: Burst calculator changes to the predictor pulled to http://t.co/lRiLwWc - check it out and report bugs! #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/26251965583331328]
[12:18] <jonsowman> sorry for spam
[12:19] <jonsowman> should have just tweeted that on the cusf account
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[12:32] <Randomskk> jonsowman: the use burst calc link isn't doing anything
[12:33] <Randomskk> in chrome
[12:33] <Randomskk> okay in ff
[12:33] <Randomskk> oh hey, now it is. cool. think it just cached some bad stuff.
[12:34] <jonsowman> ah okay
[12:34] <jonsowman> I did test it in chrome this time
[12:34] <Randomskk> :P
[12:34] <Randomskk> brb
[12:34] <jonsowman> after last time when it worked in ff and broke chrome completely
[12:38] <jonsowman> yo
[12:38] <jonsowman> oops, wrong window
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[16:38] <NigeyS> evening!
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[16:48] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: RT @jamescoxon: Picoatlas super-pressure balloon launch 17/1/11 12:00UTC from Cambridge - http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas #a ... [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/26319700048744448]
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[16:49] <Zuph> evening? Bah :-p
[16:49] <Zuph> Still drinking morning coffee :-p
[16:50] <x-f> time is relative
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> oh cool
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> picoatlas=maylar boalloon?
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> arg keyboard
[17:00] <Zuph> Using a homebrew pitot tube to measure the volume of our ZP balloon appears to have worked marvelously.
[17:01] <Zuph> We're going to recalibrate the sensor we used with a homebrew manometer today.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> I tried to make a manometer once.
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> But it broke when I touched it.
[17:03] <Zuph> heh
[17:04] <Zuph> As an aside, we *think* our balloon is approximately 28.04 m^3
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> neat!
[17:06] <Zuph> Very neat, considering the balloon maker said it would be "too hard" to measure the volume.
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[17:24] <NigeyS> someone is launching tonight ?
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[18:04] <Laurenceb_> anyone any good with python?
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/1464083
[18:08] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/1464085
[18:08] Action: Laurenceb_ hasnt a clue whats going on
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[18:14] <Laurenceb_> anyone got any ideas ?
[18:17] <NigeyS> not a clue :(
[18:17] <NigeyS> hey phil
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> tired adding threading.Thread.__init__(self)
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> to __init__
[18:19] <Laurenceb_> but now it only succeeds in hanging and being very hard to kill
[18:19] <fsphil> howdy NigeyS
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> ive been stuck on this for weeks now :(
[18:20] <NigeyS> eek, i struggle enough with php let alone python :/
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[18:45] Action: DagoRed looks at the code
[18:45] <DagoRed> Laurenceb_: Why are you trying to do threadding with Python?
[18:46] <DagoRed> *threading
[18:46] <DagoRed> Threading + python = bad
[18:47] <DagoRed> Laurenceb_: def setTask is using pointers.... that don't exist in python.
[18:48] <DagoRed> remove the * from the function arguments
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> ive at least stopped it hanging now
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> just a sec
[18:48] <DanielRichman> you can do python threading nicely, you just have to put a lot of effort into it
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/1464292
[18:49] <DanielRichman> DagoRed: the use of the * in settask is correct
[18:49] <DagoRed> ahh
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> seems line 92 is always true
[18:49] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb_: adding threading.Thread.__init__(self) to WorkerThread.__init__ is correct
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> ok
[18:50] <DagoRed> DanielRichman: I've done a lot with python, and sometimes I've learned it's best to just use a different tool. It's a shame though, I love python syntax so I would love to use it on everything.
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/1464300
[18:50] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb_: are you calling WorkerThread.start() at some point?
[18:50] <DanielRichman> ah yes, you are
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> im sure it is reading from the pipe
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> as the subprocess is no longer blocking
[18:51] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb_: why are you using a worker thread? you call worker.settask(bp.stdin.write, "-1\n") and then worker.getResult()
[18:51] <DanielRichman> i.e., you just wait for the blocking operation to finish anyway
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> i was copying from a forum post i found
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> is it only necessary for the read?
[18:52] <DanielRichman> I think so.
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> ok ill change that
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> the write worked ok before
[18:53] <DanielRichman> the use of worker.setTask, worker.probeResult looks fine though, for the readlines
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[18:53] <DanielRichman> if you're on linux, btw, and you're using python threading, and it goes all "no, I don't wanna ctrl-c >>>.<<<" then the easiest way I've found is Ctrl-Z (stop & background process); kill %1 (kill backgrounded job #1)
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah i found lol
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> took me a while to kill it
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[18:55] <DanielRichman> alternatively you could explicitly remove the SIGINT handler that python installs so that ctrl-c causes immediate death, but I suppose that's not the most important thing right now
[18:55] <DanielRichman> signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, signal.SIG_DFL) might do it, I dunno
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> some suggested implimenting my own loop instead of readlines
[18:56] <DanielRichman> so is the problem that bp.stdout.readlines never returns?
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> but it seems to be reading ok, its just that probeResult returns false
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> im not sure
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe it continues reading until EOF, in which case it will never quit
[18:57] <DanielRichman> probeResult will return false until readlines returns. Readlines will only return when stdout is EOF (?)
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> ah
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> grrr
[18:57] <DanielRichman> maybe you want to read a single line
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> so i have to impliment my own loop
[18:57] <DanielRichman> stdout.readline()
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> in a loop, as theres a ton of data - only checked every 500ms
[19:01] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/1464350
[19:01] <DanielRichman> maybe you want something like that
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> so how would that be read?
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> get from the queue?
[19:03] <DanielRichman> reader = Readmesomestuff(bp.stdout)
[19:03] <DanielRichman> then
[19:03] <DanielRichman> reader.getSoemthing()
[19:03] <DanielRichman> either returns None or a string
[19:03] <DanielRichman> I think.
[19:03] <DanielRichman> I haven't acutally run that code or tested it or anything
[19:03] <DanielRichman> the point is that self.queue.get_nowait() (see Readmesomestuff.getSomething()) doesn't block
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> hang on wouldnt it be a list?
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:04] <DanielRichman> nah because I call line =file.readline(), which returns a string - a single line
[19:04] <DanielRichman> then put that into the list
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> hmm no stringone\nstring2\nstring3\n
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> i see
[19:04] <DanielRichman> also, Laurenceb_ , I've just noticed, it should be "line = self.file.readline()"
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> ok
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> does readline strip the \n ?
[19:05] <DanielRichman> I don't know
[19:05] <DanielRichman> I don't think so
[19:05] <DanielRichman> try it ;-)
[19:05] <DanielRichman> be back later
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> ok, then i can use string.split
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> to get the lines
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[19:06] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> seems to be working, thanks
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[19:21] <Laurenceb_> theres a few issues remaning, but it seems the python is running
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[19:33] <DagoRed> congrats Laurenceb_
[19:34] <Randomskk> DagoRed: python is clearly the best tool for all jobs :P
[19:34] <Randomskk> I'm using it for IRC right now, I just have a function "send_message(channel, message)" that I run from the interpreter
[19:35] <DagoRed> python bots and such on IRC is amazing.
[19:35] <DagoRed> I just have 3 issues with python.
[19:37] <DagoRed> 1) event driven.. it's not. You can try to make it work but really it's a sequence driven language 2) Some python programs can be more of a pig than neccessary. 3) GUI, threading, and working with embedded systems Python is a horrible choice.
[19:37] <DagoRed> Overall though, my favorite language.
[19:38] <Randomskk> can't argue on the event driven or embedded fronts
[19:38] <Randomskk> I don't think GUIs are that big a deal these days, certainly no worse than C/C++ or similar, though the IDEs perhaps aren't as fine tuned as various .NET products
[19:39] <Randomskk> that said - I use python on my desktop as glue logic for other embedded systems all the time
[19:39] <DagoRed> Nice.
[19:40] <DagoRed> I worked at a company where I embedded the python command line into our test tool. Python in that perspective is very powerful.
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> hmm seems the python works but the avr code fails
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> RSSI reporting is screwed
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> i suspect theres just not enough time to fit in the spi reads
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/1464529
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> line 190+
[19:44] <natrium42> Laurenceb_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> hah
[19:46] <natrium42> best idea ever
[19:47] <natrium42> XD
[19:49] <Randomskk> hahaha wow
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:50] <Randomskk> that reminds me quite a bit of that crazy japanese guy who does similar kinds of stuff
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> I wait for the first person to give themselves an epileptic fit doing that.
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> its returning all sort of junk as rssi
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> but the thing is that its not random junk
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be a different random number each time i fire it up...
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> is rssi in-band omly?
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking perhaps there wasnt time for lines 190+ to run before the next ISR
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> lines 189-191 sync us to start just after an ISR if that is feasible
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> some of the cc* registers arent initialised, so they will be random at each startup
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> im wondering if maybe i havent configured the rssi to be used
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[19:56] <NSS-WB9SBD> Greetings
[19:57] <Randomskk> hi
[20:03] <fsphil> hiya NSS-WB9SBD
[20:03] <NSS-WB9SBD> Greetings from NSS
[20:04] <fsphil> I see bill is nearly ready
[20:15] <NSS-WB9SBD> yup,
[20:16] <NSS-WB9SBD> any PE balloon op's here?
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> hmm seems i wasnt applying the right equations
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> RSSI is maybe more trouble than its worth
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Surely it's fairly important?
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> maybe useful when the balloon is close - hard to jundge just how strong the signal is
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Can you simply look at the AGC level?
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> i hadnt taken that into accound
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> RSSI register needs to be shoved into an equation tegother with some of the AGC settings to get a sensible result
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> oh do you want a 64MB ram ic for the parrot?
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly the amazon seller shipped an unbranded RAM rather than the hynix advertised
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> yes - if possible, would be great.
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[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Could you spare a couple - was given two as a xmas present! :)
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Can cover postage/costs no problem.
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> sure, i have 8 here
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[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Great - got yours working yet?
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[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Some uboot hackery apparanrly
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[20:31] <fsphil> muhaha... cheated a bit, decoded some of the dominoex from bills balloon payload, from overhearing it on the live stream :)
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> i need to use IR reflow station at work
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> ill try monday
[20:31] <griffonbot> @wb5rmg: WB8ELK #ARHAB nearly ready for launch. http://spacenear.us/tracker Listen on 7.077 MHz [http://twitter.com/wb5rmg/status/26376064271908864]
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[20:40] <fsphil> the coordinate format bill is using is a bit odd: 3443.48,-08638.70
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> that's not odd
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> that's most raw GPS ouptut
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[20:41] <SpeedEvil> 34 degrees 43.48 minutes west, 86 degrees 38.7 minutes south
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> err
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[20:41] <russss> heh
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> s/west/south/
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> and ...
[20:41] <fsphil> the gps I have was xx.xxxxx, xxx.xxxxx
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Maybe I'm confused.
[20:42] <Randomskk> yea, there are two popular formats. dd.dddd for all decimal degrees, and ddmm.mm for degrees and decimal minutes
[20:42] <Randomskk> happily not many people use dd`mm'ss'' as that would be super annoying
[20:42] <Randomskk> (habitat will accept dd.dddd or ddmm.mm)
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[20:42] <SpeedEvil> I have a GPS that did that Randomskk in one mode.
[20:43] <fsphil> it's confusing dl-fldigi's position bar -- might have to look into that
[20:43] <Randomskk> that's very annoying.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> The granularity goes _way_ up
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[20:47] <jcoxon> evening all
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[20:47] <Randomskk> heya
[20:47] <jcoxon> will this work on the tracker?
[20:47] <jcoxon> $$PICO,1948,20:47:16,51.3860,+0.5065,90,0,9,6;0*D317
[20:48] <jcoxon> i would try but i don't want to mess up the map
[20:48] <jcoxon> what i mean is would the + sign work?
[20:48] <Randomskk> should do.
[20:48] <Randomskk> try it, we can clear a callsign's data from the map easily
[20:48] <jcoxon> good - fixes the space issue that i had last time
[20:48] <jcoxon> yeah but everyone would have to refresh
[20:48] <Randomskk> (habitat accepts + and a space leading)
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[20:48] <jcoxon> i'll try it later
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[20:49] <jcoxon> okay well picoatlas is working great
[20:49] <Randomskk> cool cool
[20:49] <jcoxon> currently txing in evening mode
[20:49] <natrium42> good to hear, jcoxon
[20:49] <jcoxon> 1 lipo lasts about 20 hours
[20:50] <fsphil> impressive
[20:50] <fsphil> have you fridge tested it yet?
[20:50] <jcoxon> no
[20:50] <jcoxon> don't really want to - fear the worst
[20:50] <jcoxon> will do tonight though
[20:52] <jcoxon> oops
[20:53] <fsphil> haha
[20:53] <jcoxon> well it works
[20:53] <jcoxon> right i'll bbl
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[20:54] <natrium42> who is MI6VIM?
[20:54] <natrium42> oh, fsphil?
[20:54] Action: fsphil waves
[20:54] <natrium42> :)
[20:54] <natrium42> using internet radio?
[20:54] <fsphil> I used bills radio, via the web stream
[20:54] <natrium42> aah, nice
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> oh this sucks
[20:55] <fsphil> got my own radio on here, but that's being incredibly optimistic
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> i think i need to read RSSI and GAIN registers
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> stupid *cc
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[21:06] <griffonbot> @wb5rmg: WB8ELK #ARHAB is off-the-ground ! http://spacenear.us/tracker #hamr Listen on 7.077 MHz USB /;^) [http://twitter.com/wb5rmg/status/26384637903241216]
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[21:12] <SpeedEvil> What is the green circle on the tracker?
[21:12] <natrium42> 5 degree horizon
[21:12] <natrium42> blue is 0 degree horizon
[21:13] <russss> picking up telemetry in Wisconsin I see
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:13] <fsphil> hearing telemetry from a radio in ohio
[21:13] <russss> chances of it getting as far as here? (not that my antenna is hooked up enough)
[21:13] <fsphil> very low I guess
[21:13] <fsphil> though not impossible
[21:14] <russss> propagation is a fickle beast
[21:14] <natrium42> does anybody know expected burst altitude?
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[21:15] <natrium42> 600 gram, i guess 25km burst sounds right
[21:15] <russss> Predicted Burst
[21:15] <russss> 34.7655, -84.7714, 24967 m at 22:50 UTC
[21:15] <russss> that's what spacenear.us says
[21:15] <natrium42> that's hardcoded
[21:15] <natrium42> i am wondering if i need to change it
[21:15] <russss> ah
[21:17] <jcoxon> wow lots of receivers
[21:17] <fsphil> indeed
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[21:17] <jcoxon> i think the guys in the states are cottoning on to how much fun tracking is
[21:17] <fsphil> some nice positive comments about the tracker
[21:18] <jcoxon> great
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[21:19] <fsphil> on global tuners, hearing it nicely on ohio
[21:19] <fsphil> the range on HF is amazing
[21:20] <jcoxon> you should move your dl-fldigi operator location to that radio
[21:20] <jcoxon> will make more sense :-)
[21:24] <fsphil> weakened a bit
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[21:31] <jcoxon> hi g6uim KD0FXP_
[21:31] <KD0FXP_> Hey
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[21:31] <fsphil> hmm,, someone's doing rtty right over the telemetry
[21:31] <jcoxon> the issues with 40m
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[21:31] <g6uim> hi sorry it locked up on me
[21:31] <jcoxon> hey g6uim
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Oh - this has HF too?
[21:31] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, its just HF
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:31] <g6uim> hi hoping to get hf here tuning around whats frequency was decided?
[21:31] <fsphil> 7.077
[21:31] <fsphil> +1800hz
[21:31] <fsphil> my own radio here is just static on that frequency
[21:31] Action: russss couldn't here it on the 2 globaltuners receivers he trie
[21:31] <russss> d
[21:31] <russss> hear*
[21:31] <g6uim> thanks not getting anything here, but it's a bit of a hope for me anyway
[21:31] <fsphil> yea
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[21:31] <fsphil> I struggle with HF on the best of days ;)
[21:31] <jcoxon> g6uim, keep at it - not sure if we can predict HF proporgation when its actually in the stratosphere
[21:31] <jcoxon> :-D
[21:31] <jcoxon> also he's cranked up the power
[21:31] <russss> what power is he using?
[21:32] <g6uim> i won't give up jcoxon you never know might get something
[21:32] <jcoxon> not sure but its more then last time
[21:32] <jcoxon> yeah
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[21:34] <fsphil> I'd be happy even if I got just a bit of a string :)
[21:34] <fsphil> with all this noise, I'm thinking 70cm is a good idea
[21:35] <fsphil> shame we can't use it over the ocean
[21:36] <russss> there's more interference because it's got a longer range!
[21:36] <russss> you can't have your cake and eat it
[21:36] <fsphil> can't win :)
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[21:36] <jcoxon> just careful freq choices
[21:36] <fsphil> a string of 70cm repeaters across the atlantic :)
[21:36] <jcoxon> use amateur sats :-p
[21:37] <jcoxon> time in uplink to passes :-)
[21:37] <fsphil> ISS does aprs
[21:37] <fsphil> though aprs isn't as fun
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[21:38] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[21:39] <g6uim> i would prefer both aprs and HF
[21:40] <fsphil> aprs needs more power due to it's higher baud rates
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> Looking at the track. Does anyone have some sturdy walking boots, and a really long pole?
[21:41] <mike_jh_> Yes
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[21:47] <g6uim> true but I ran a 5w 2m aprs transmitter that lasted ages and was not particularly heavy with lipo. prepared to loan it if anyone can use
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> rssi=buffer_bottom==buffer_top;
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> will that set rssi=1 if the two are aqual?
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[21:49] <russss> Laurenceb_: yes
[21:49] <russss> Laurenceb_: but I would put brackets there just to be sure
[21:50] <jcoxon> it would be nice if they could give us a little bit of frequency
[21:50] <fsphil> outside the amateur band?
[21:51] <jcoxon> maybe
[21:51] <russss> has anyone tried asking ofcom? I guess they probably don't want to talk to you about amateur stuff unless you're the RSGB.
[21:51] <jcoxon> there have been chats about balloons and radio in the UK
[21:52] <jcoxon> a number of meetings - not going to happen
[21:52] <fsphil> you'd think they'd be happy with allowing it on a small subset of 70cm
[21:53] <g6uim> a shame I don't really see the problem
[21:53] <fsphil> and operating from the air probably makes very little difference on HF
[21:55] <fsphil> is the UK the only country with that restriction?
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[21:56] <g6uim> seems to be only the UK and I don't really know why.
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[22:00] <jcoxon> oh well
[22:00] <fsphil> at least we have 434mhz :)
[22:00] <jcoxon> yeah!
[22:00] <jcoxon> you can do lots with 10mW
[22:11] <Darkside> haha
[22:11] <Darkside> mann, can't wait to test 100mW :D
[22:11] <Darkside> or higher
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[22:18] <russss> moar bandwidth
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[22:23] <fsphil> moar images :p
[22:23] <fsphil> or higher resolution
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[22:41] <Darkside> well we want to do 23cm ATV
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[22:48] <fsphil> that would be neat
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[22:50] <Darkside> fsphil: if we do that, i'll make sure it gets streamed live
[22:50] <fsphil> I think the only way we'll be doing proper telly is via optical
[22:50] <fsphil> oh please do!
[22:50] <fsphil> I'll stay up late for that
[22:50] <Darkside> heh
[22:50] <Darkside> i'll be streaming the next launch live too
[22:50] <Darkside> still not sure on what day its going to be yet, maybe tuesday
[22:51] <fsphil> I tried the same for hadie, but the bandwidth of the gsm network wasn't up to the job
[22:51] <Darkside> heh
[22:51] <Darkside> i wouldn't trust the phone networks at altitude anyway
[22:51] <Darkside> i've managed to get 3g at 7.5km before, but it was a bit dodgy
[22:52] <fsphil> oh this was just at the launch site :)
[22:52] <Darkside> ahh :P
[22:52] <fsphil> it's a bit rural
[22:52] <Darkside> yeah, i had the same problems last time i tried to stream
[22:53] <Darkside> hopefully it'll work this time
[22:53] <Darkside> since this time, i'll be streaming to a lot of the linux community lol
[22:54] <russss> my gut says you'll get more attenuation on an optical link than you would on a radio link.
[22:54] <Darkside> what do you mean optical link?
[22:54] <Darkside> LASERS?
[22:54] <fsphil> bloody big LED :)
[22:54] <Darkside> pfffffffff
[22:54] <fsphil> + telescope on the ground
[22:54] <Darkside> yeah i dont think that'll work
[22:55] <fsphil> nor me
[22:55] <Darkside> you'd need to do some serious tracking work for that to work
[22:55] <fsphil> bit I'm gonna try with rtty
[22:55] <Darkside> i've been looking at making a tracking 2.4GHz dish
[22:55] <fsphil> bit/but
[22:55] <Darkside> i also have a 5W UHF CB module that i coudl send SSTV over
[22:55] <Darkside> i reckon that'd get a bit of range
[22:56] <russss> I'd wager tracking is pretty easy given that you've got GPS telemetry
[22:56] <russss> even with rather narrow beam angles
[22:56] <Darkside> weeeeeeeeeeel
[22:56] <Darkside> kind of
[22:56] <Darkside> should be doable
[22:56] <fsphil> hmm... I wonder if CB can be used from a balloon in the UK
[22:56] <Darkside> you'd want a high accuracy GPS on the ground too
[22:56] <Darkside> then you just have it work out the azimuth and altitude to the balloon
[22:56] <Darkside> the problem will be putting the dish somewhere so that its not pointing straight up all the time
[22:58] <Darkside> i do have a dish i could use at uni tho, and i've been told i can have it, if i get it working
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[22:59] <Darkside> just need to get some stepper motor drivers, some accelerometers (for angle measurement) and a compass module
[22:59] <Darkside> i have a module that juxta lent me, but its....... old
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[23:00] <fsphil> could you re-purpose an old alt-az telescope mount?
[23:00] <Darkside> http://kenrockwell.com/trips/2009-10/images/L1004432-cs4.jpg
[23:00] <Darkside> argh
[23:01] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/JkSbx.jpg
[23:01] <Darkside> theres the compass module
[23:01] <Darkside> and im not sure
[23:01] <Darkside> i dont have one
[23:01] <Darkside> and this antenna mount has already been made, i may as well make use of it
[23:01] <Darkside> its a 24dBi dish for 2.4GHz, on a counterweighted tracking mount
[23:02] <Darkside> well, 'tracking' mount... i just have connections for 2 stepper motors - the tracking part is up to me :P
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[00:00] --- Sun Jan 16 2011