highaltitude.log.20110102

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[12:17] <Darkside> juxta: about?
[12:25] Action: Laurenceb_ has a weird issue with fldiig
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> *fldigi
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> it quits if its reading from a named pipe
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> as soon as i deselect the playback
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> only seems to happen with pipes, not wav files
[12:27] <Laurenceb_> i cant see how it would matter
[12:55] <fsphil> crash or quit?
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> seems to quit, im trying to replicate the problem more accurately
[12:55] <fsphil> if it's a crash there should dump a backtrace to the console
[12:55] <fsphil> there=it
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> no crash r quit now
[12:58] <fsphil> hate that
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> ok, its working ok now, but i cant close and reopen the named pipe
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> it seems to jam up - i cant make playback work or select the sound card correctly
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> the UI is responsive, but the waterfall isnt
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm pulseaudio is eating a lot of cpu
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> ah it could be unrelated - flash player sometimes screws up the audio
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> when i turn off the playback its trying to find another audio source maybe
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> ok when i close the playback its obviously screwing something up
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> i killed flashplayer, and pulseaudio is behaving itself, but after ive stopped playback i cant reopen either wav files or named pipes
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> E: Stream: Could not read /home/laurence/Documents/chipcon/cc1020/sercomm/stream.wav
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> if i try a wav file i get Playback Selected
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> 1
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> but no action on the waterfall
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[13:12] <Laurenceb_> maybe its the way i close the pipe - the c code to write to the pipe uses signals to detect fldigi closing the pipe, and quits if it gets the signal
[13:14] <jcoxon> afternoon
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> hi
[13:19] <jcoxon> think i'm going to launch my next flight 15/16 jan
[13:21] <fsphil> what's on the agenda for that flight?
[13:21] <fsphil> I may be launching at the same time if the caa don't hurry up :)
[13:22] <jcoxon> so atlas flight computer, correct nav5 mode, crystal oven set at 10deg and going to try out foiled bubble wrap as insulation
[13:22] <jcoxon> and also float it if weather permits
[13:22] <fsphil> you think the bubble wrap will survive?
[13:23] <jcoxon> maybe
[13:23] <jcoxon> its been used in the states quite a bit
[13:23] <jcoxon> in theory 4mm of foiled bubble wrap is the equivalent of 55m of polystyrene
[13:24] <jcoxon> 55mm*
[13:24] <fsphil> impessive
[13:26] <jcoxon> worth a go
[13:26] <jcoxon> was thinking a cardboard box with lining inside and outside of it
[13:27] <jcoxon> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10617653&fh_view_size=10&fh_start_index=10&fh_eds=%3f&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3C{9372016}%2fcategories%3C{9372050}%2fcategories%3C{9372230}&fh_refview=lister&ts=1293974853006&isSearch=false
[13:30] <fsphil> plus it's gonna look great :)
[13:30] <jcoxon> key to a payload
[13:31] <jcoxon> wonder if the whitestar team will be ready for next saturday
[13:31] <fsphil> I've got something similar to that, only it's foil on one side and polystyrene on the other
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[13:40] <Laurenceb_> ok if i use the existing playback tickbox to play named pipes i can open and close
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> but if i use the stream tickbox i added then something goes screwy when i close
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> the waterfall becomes unresponsive
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> theres probably something i missed out :-/
[13:42] <Laurenceb_> i basically added an extra tickbox in dialogs/fl_digi.cxx and replicated the playback function in soundcard/sound.cxx without the delays
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/dl-fldigi/commits/master
[13:45] <jcoxon> so does it work or not?
[13:45] <Upu> afternoon
[13:46] <Upu> if I amend the code on the CUSF Balloon burst calc so I can put in 1600g balloons it should work shouldn't it ?
[13:46] <jcoxon> got some chinese balloons?
[13:47] <Upu> rgr
[13:47] <Upu> I manually put in 10.5 meter burst and I wasn't sure what balloon cd ment so I put 0.25
[13:47] <jcoxon> from steve?
[13:47] <Upu> I've ordered some
[13:47] <Upu> from him yes
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> it becomes unresponsive if you turn off the sdr and try to use the souncard for e.g.
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> without restartng fldigi
[13:48] <jcoxon> Upu, cool
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> hmm whats SoundNull?
[13:48] <Upu> I amended the code and I have 38284 meters at 4.77m/s 1540g neck lift
[13:48] <jcoxon> interesting to see how they perfrom
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> size_t SoundNull::Read(float *buf, size_t count)
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> is that what the waterfall uses if nothing else is selected?
[13:48] <Upu> I assume I fill something up with 1540g and when the balloon supports that weight I'm good to go ?
[13:48] <jcoxon> Upu, i reckon using the data for a 1500 and adding a bit more will be fine
[13:49] <Upu> ok
[13:49] <Upu> its about the the same volume of gas, basically 1 T-cylinders worth
[13:49] <jcoxon> eeek they have massive necks
[13:49] <Upu> yeah that was my next question :)
[13:50] <jcoxon> 8.3cm
[13:50] <jcoxon> compared to 3cm
[13:50] <Upu> I have to convert a hose pipe to a drain pipe I think :)
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> Upu: cd is coefficient of drag
[13:53] <Upu> ah ok
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> Upu: copying the existing balloons is probably sane
[13:53] <Upu> I did
[13:54] <Upu> so this neck lift, do I just hang something off the balloon and when it's neutrally bouyant I'm good ?
[13:55] <Upu> something with the correct weight ofc
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> I think so.
[13:56] <Upu> I'll get the balloon and the gas then work out how to make one fit to the other :)
[13:58] <Darkside> Upu you might want to be a bit more scientific about how much gas you put in
[13:58] <Darkside> get a weight measurement device, like a fish scale
[13:59] <jcoxon> oh i think the aiming for neutrally bouyant idea is a good one
[13:59] <Upu> ok what do you weight ? The cylinder ?
[13:59] <jcoxon> especially in early launches
[13:59] <Darkside> Upu: attach it to the balloon, and hold the balloon down with it
[13:59] <Upu> I had this idea of filling a milk container with the right neck lift full of sand
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> neutral bouyancy can be tricky in higher winds
[13:59] <Upu> ah ok gotcha
[13:59] <Darkside> as in, clip the scale onto the balloon somehow, then hold the scale
[14:00] <Darkside> then you can measure the lift
[14:00] <Darkside> i wonder if i have any pics of how juxta does it
[14:00] <Darkside> because its a good way of doing it
[14:00] <Upu> I'll have to get an accurate scale then
[14:00] <Darkside> wait, we do have a video
[14:00] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/16241165
[14:00] <Darkside> its near the start of that one
[14:01] <Darkside> ill get the time
[14:01] <Darkside> oh, in that you can also see juxta's balloon filling rig
[14:03] <Darkside> so at 0:18 you can see the balloon filling rig
[14:03] <Darkside> hoses, one tap, and some PVC pipe
[14:04] <Upu> thx
[14:05] <Darkside> 0:56 is the measurement thing
[14:05] <Darkside> juxta pre-measured the weight of the filling apparatus, and subtracts that from the weight measured by the scale
[14:05] <Darkside> that way the balloon doesnt have to be disconnected each time
[14:06] <jcoxon> yeah thats what we do
[14:07] <fsphil> also, nice video
[14:08] <Darkside> yeah, vk5gr did an awesome job on it
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[15:03] <Laurenceb_> ok this is weird
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> if i try to relay a saved wav file in my modified dl-fldigi it works with both the existing playback and the new stream option
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> if i try to connect to the sdr, then only the playback option works - stream hangs the waterfall display when closed
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> the only difference i can think of is that with the sdr its opening a named pipe, and the pipe is closed for writing as soon as the sdr comms code gets a broken pipe signal
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> the other symptom is the the UI stays responsive and i cant try to reopen the stream after rebooting the SDR, but i get E: Stream: Could not read /home/laurence/Documents/chipcon/cc1020/sercomm/stream.wav
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> *can try
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> depite the fact its been opened for reading - also when the waterfall hangs, theres no excessive cpu usage
[15:09] Action: Laurenceb_ is wondering if fldigi is trying to reopen the pipe after i close it by unchecking the tickbox
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> that would explain all the symptoms, but i dunno why itd be trying to
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> strace?
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> eek
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> way too much stuff
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> how do i use strace properly?
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> you can select file-handles
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[15:14] <SpeedEvil> Or you alternatively output to a file -o file
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> then search for open( calls
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> hmm yeah
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> poll([{fd=21, events=POLLIN|POLLOUT}], 1, -1) = 1 ([{fd=21, revents=POLLOUT}])
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> writev(21, [{"8\3\4\0\7\0\300\4\0\0\10\0\0\0\0\0;\3\21\0\7\0\300\4\0\0\0\0\276\0000\0"..., 576}, {"\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 260000}, {"", 0}], 3) = 126976
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> and look at the corresponding read(
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> i have tons upon tons o fthat
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> guess its easy to remove
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[15:16] <SpeedEvil> you probably - if it's an X app - have lots and lots of X crap
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> yes, thats what it looks like
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> oh dear
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> looks like it reopens the file after i turn off stream
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> open("/home/laurence/Documents/chipcon/cc1020/atmega168-talk/stream_.wav", O_RDONLY) = 29
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> fstat(29, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=834028, ...}) = 0
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f0b66cee000
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> read(29, "RIFF\344\271\f\0WAVEfmt \20\0\0\0\1\0\1\0\0K\0\0\0\226\0\0"..., 4096) = 4096
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> close(29) = 0
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> oops
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> its checking to see what filetype it is
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[16:07] <Laurenceb_> hmf no thats not the problem
[16:07] Action: Laurenceb_ doesnt have a clue
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> my best guess at present is that the UI and file open close is working correctly
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> and im breaking something in the background
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[16:13] <SpeedEvil> have you worked out what the code does when it gets EPIPE?
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> which code?
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> itll hang if it gets EPIPE in fldigi
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> but thats not the issue
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> you are supposed to close the pipe from fldigi UI by unchecking the checkbox
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> then fldigi closes, and the c code that relays the data gets a SIGPIPE signal and closes everything and quits in response
[16:17] <Laurenceb_> *fldigi closes the pipe
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[16:18] <Laurenceb_> if i use the existing playback function (with dodgey timing) in fldigi it shuts down ok
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> but if i use the stream option i added, which is a copy of playback without the delays, fldigi partially hangs when you try unchecking the box
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> the UI stays responsive, and from strace it seems to be working fine, i can even reopen the pipe after rebooting the SDR and its all recorded in strace
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> but the modem has hung and the waterfall is unresponsive
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> leading me to assume ive somehow screwed up the inner workings of fldigi :S
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Is there a fldigi mailing list, or something?
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> yes, might be worth a shot
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> maybe im using variable names that are already in use
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[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello and happy new year
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> hi
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> but they werent any errors whne it compiled iirc
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[16:29] <Laurenceb_> wonder where logged error go to
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> or where LOG_ERROR goes to
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> where is dl-fldigi installed to on the filesystem/
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> ?
[16:42] <Laurenceb_> nmv
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I've only installed pre-built binaries of fldigi - never investigated anything of the source
[16:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[16:43] <Laurenceb_> these noone whos worked on fldigi here
[16:44] <Upu> anyone any experience with cross form parachutes ?
[16:47] <fsphil> surely it will install wherever you tell configure to install it?
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> i autoconfigured it
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> nvm ive found it
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> nothing bad in the error logs tho
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[16:58] <Laurenceb_> SoundNull::Read is the only thing i dont really understand
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> any ideas what it is?
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[17:00] <fsphil> returns null samples
[17:01] <fsphil> unless a file is being played back
[17:01] Nick change: TraumaKitteh -> TraumaPrincess
[17:01] <fsphil> the way they've done this is bad -- each sound source handles playback and capture, rather than there being a single SoundFile:: source
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/cDrNAhAP
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> line 1948
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> 1940 should be if(!(stream || playback))?
[17:08] <fsphil> not sure
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> no, thats the same
[17:08] <fsphil> wouldn't it be better to make a SoundStream:: object?
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> i just copied how playback was done
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> *i just attempted to copy
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> obviously ive broken something
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> weird thing is how it works with wav files but not with pipes
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> ping Upu
[17:36] <Upu> pong
[17:36] <Upu> hi Lunar_Lander
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> I just found something on X-Parachutes
[17:37] <Upu> I found some numbers and they obviously don't slow you down as much
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> it says that an X-Chute must be about 1/3 bigger than a circular one to get the same braking effect
[17:37] <Upu> but amateur rockets seem to come down alot quicker
[17:37] <Upu> oh cool thanks
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:37] <Upu> that makes it easier
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:37] <Upu> according to the wiki I need a 90cms chute
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:37] <Upu> so 120cms then if I go cross chute
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:38] <Upu> 48"
[17:38] <Upu> nice
[17:38] <Upu> thanks :)
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CuYB_ZjALo
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> how do i send an email to the fldigi mailing list?
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> its something on derlios.de right?
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[18:40] <Laurenceb_> ok sent to the mailing list - thats my description http://pastebin.com/1jnqDuse
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[19:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cl.cam.ac.uk%2F~mkb23%2Fresearch%2FBoom-Headshot.pdf&rct=j&q=boom%20headshot&ei=880gTaLoG5O7hAeUgoW3Dg&usg=AFQjCNGBeAYcK8oUY7by9XXIWBqBA8-RYg&cad=rja
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> seriously
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[20:58] <MrCraig> replaced capacitor on cnc controller - plugged in and the new cap started to change shape :-( Ordered replacement board. Sad face :-(
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[21:01] <fsphil> shapeshifting capacitors, neat
[21:03] <MrCraig> yeah - they're very neat when the shape change is intentional, wow do they pop
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[21:05] <MrCraig> I'd adjusted the voltage down (because I presumed that's what was wrong last time) and the new cap was rated for higher voltage anyway. Still it wanted to pop. Checked polarity too, so I guess the board was just faulty - bad regulator maybe?
[21:06] <MrCraig> With luck the new one will make me smile.
[21:06] <fsphil> you could have been unlucky and got a bad cap
[21:09] <MrCraig> well I bought from china on ebay so I think unlucky probably goes hand in hand with unwise.
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[21:11] <MrCraig> still - it's not all bad. The new controller comes with instructions in english, port for emergency shut off, and an interface for the actual drill motor. It's a superior controller and also has all kinds of overload protection (no more popping caps!)
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[22:20] <Burninate> Anyone see this? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/01/AR2011010102690.html?sid=ST2011010102693
[22:21] <Burninate> apparently all our close air intel was being done by mounting a $20M video camera with a 10kg zoom lens in a pan-tilt-zoom assembly
[22:22] <Burninate> which could image one block at a time in an entire town
[22:22] <Burninate> they have replaced this with a bunch of consumer point-and-shoots pointing in all directions
[22:22] <Burninate> but are still charging $20M for it
[22:23] <Burninate> fuck wikileaks, let's go after Boeing for treasonous incompetence
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[22:25] <SpeedEvil> It is not incompetence to sell for what the market will bear.
[22:28] <Burninate> it's not a market
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Yes it is.
[22:29] <Burninate> There is little to no competition in most military contracting
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Just because there is an existing contract does not mean the buyer cannot examine the changed item, and say fuck off, reduce price, or I'm not buying any more.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> This is not a problem of the seller.
[22:29] <stilldavid> but does that ever happen?
[22:30] <Burninate> there are plenty of reasons that a buyer could not do those things, if they happen to be a semi-secret military bureaucracy purchasing from their future employer
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> I suspect not often enough.
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> That again isn't the fault of the seller - they are not the one with the ultimate power in teh relationsip. It's the buyers problem if their financial control and auditing is so poor.
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> I assume you're familiar with the recent nasa $500m ridiculousness?
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.newser.com/story/108424/nasa-spending-500m-on-canceled-rocket-program.html
[22:32] <Burninate> I listen to a radio station which is basically financed by a competition between two companies for a tanker design
[22:32] <Burninate> maybe a dozen people can be influenced by this ad
[22:32] <Burninate> but I have heard it several times a day for the last two years
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[22:34] <Burninate> A person is not a "seller" when they employ lobbyists to sell
[22:34] <Burninate> it has graduated beyond the moral simplicity of a market transaction
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Yes, they are a seller. The fact that the buyer is so incompetent is not the sellers fault.
[22:37] <Burninate> If one were to assert that this incompetence included refusing to enforce corruption statutes
[22:37] <Burninate> would it still not be the seller's fault?
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> Umm - no. The fact that someone spends all their money on drink isn't the fault of the beer companies.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Governmental spending in general is often fucked, as it's not treated as a purchasing decision, but as a welfare decision.
[22:39] <Burninate> what *would* be the seller's fault, praytell?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Actually falsifying data about the systems manufacturing cost, their profit, or capabilities, in a way that the buyer could not reasonably be expected to detect.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Or collusion between multiple possible vendors to operate a cartel or price-fixing.
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[22:45] <Burninate> I'm sorry, I'm not going to get anywhere arguing with econ 101
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[22:46] <Burninate> Suffice it to say, my position is that the world is more complex than that
[22:46] <Burninate> especially public-private interactions and especially defense contracting
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[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough - I agree that the whole seller + buyer relationship in governmental spending is wholly fucking broken - but take the position that it's entirely the buyers responsibility - especially when they are the government - to regulate their spending properly.
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[22:48] <Burninate> A corporation is not a natural entity with rights and responsibilities, it is a construct created by government in order to serve the people through market competition
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[22:49] <Burninate> Suggesting that "it's their fault" involves suggesting that in this case, it's not serving the people, it's hurting them, and the government has the power and responsibility to fix those circumstances
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> I agree - I was pretending for the moment the whole 'corporate personhood' is sane.
[22:49] <Burninate> through whatever means available, short of constitutional violations
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> And indeed that the state is another single negotiator.
[22:51] <Burninate> Furthermore, if individuals acting on behalf of the government have been subverted from doing their responsibillities by the uniquely comfortable position defense contractors have created for themselves
[22:51] <Burninate> that this does, in fact, constitute acting against the interests of the united states of america in a military matter
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[22:52] <Burninate> and is thus more applicable to the term 'Treason' than any amount of Constitutionally-protected journalism
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Treason is _really_really_ narrowly defined in the constitution.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Though I admit it's been a while since I read it.
[22:53] <Burninate> it may not be actionable, but it's more appropriate than the wikileaks thing
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> Actually - I'm conflating it with the grounds for losing citezenship in the US - which is almost as narrow.
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[23:20] <Zuph> Inspected one of our ZP balloons yesterday, against manufacturer recommendation :-p
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> You're now posting from inside the balloon, trapped, and unable to get out?
[23:22] <Zuph> Were I able to get inside the balloon, I promise that the seams aren't nearly high quality enough to keep me in.
[23:22] <Zuph> Heck, they might not be high-quality enough to keep helium in!
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[23:31] <SpeedEvil> I'm reminded of http://buffy.slayers.co.uk/01x01.htm
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> oops
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> nsfw
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 3 2011