highaltitude.log.20101231

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[00:07] Nick change: Laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> ok good night everyone
[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> have a good start into 2011
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[13:03] <Laurenceb_> theres no way to delete things from the wiki
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> used to be an overwrite file option of previous versions
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[13:25] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10252
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> nice
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> it used to require an NDA for the motion processing API - looks like you now have to register
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> http://invensense.com/mems/gyro/mpu6000.html
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> interesting
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> muha
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/mplspecificationv101imu1293804031.pdf
[14:00] Action: Laurenceb_ pisses all over the license agreement
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> not that exciting really - looks like it either just integrates rotation or runs a basic kalman filter on the gyor and accel
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> hard to see how it helps a lot
[14:10] <Laurenceb_> for anything other than basic phone games and stuff
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> Yu have a SoC
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> You don't have to wake up at 50Hz and take a sample
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> This helps lots on power use
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> yes, but for uav you want to input gps data to the filter
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Some apps, it's useless.
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> mpu-6000 demo code/documentation isnt avaliable yet
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> looks like its just a copy of the mpu3000 with additional magno input
[14:17] <Laurenceb_> - code wise
[14:17] <Laurenceb_> also the built in accel is noisey
[14:17] <Laurenceb_> but they reduced the gyro noise
[14:20] <Laurenceb_> by a factor of 6 relative to itg3200 crazy
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> better ADC?
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> in fact if drift really does go with sqrt(T)*noise_spectral_density is totally mental
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> 0.005degrees/sec/sqrt(T)
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> it takes days to lose heading
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> s/T/Hz
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> 1.8 degrees an hour is about twice what analog quote for their shiniest gyros
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> 1Mseconds -> 5 degrees = nearly 2 weeks
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> mad, but the temperature drift will kill it
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Or other noise sources
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> 6 times worse is hardly as issue
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> the temeprature drift and accel noise is far more significant on a gps corrected imu
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> think ill see if they make a 9DOF ic
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> one big effect is gyro drift causng the G vector to drift
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> just did some sims of the itg3200 + lsm303dlh and the accel and gyro G coupling drifts are equivalent after 2 seconds, so accel dominates above 0.5Hz
[14:52] <Laurenceb_> with mup-6000 its about 15 seconds before gyros dominate
[14:56] <Laurenceb_> but gps steps in to correct after 1 second or so, so performance is pretty much identical
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[15:21] <Upu> Afternoon all, does the burst calculator work for Hwoyee balloons ?
[15:24] <Upu> Target weight 650g actual 649g :)
[15:25] <Upu> http://picasaweb.google.com/upuaut/201012AvaFinalBuild?authkey=Gv1sRgCOPLjOOj8vjCjQE#
[15:30] <fsphil> looking well!
[15:32] <Upu> just finished off the packing for the camera
[15:32] <Upu> I don't want it moving :)
[15:34] <fsphil> where them guys okie with supplying the gas?
[15:34] <Upu> no idea they are hols
[15:34] <Upu> will call next week but don't see why not
[15:34] <Upu> just need a parachute now
[15:35] <Upu> just go without one but may be a pretty quick decent
[15:41] <fsphil> shouldn't be too hard to get a small chute
[15:44] <fsphil> http://www.rocketsandthings.com/view/category/31/
[15:44] <fsphil> ack, just noticed they're mostly out of stock
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Well - it's hardly difficult to make from any old fabric
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> though light rip-stop stuff is best
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> whats the pink stuff?
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> btw, careful of the top of the patch ant
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> they are very esd sensitive
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Also, they need air over them
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Though polystyrene foam may be OK
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> it should be fine
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> At least the width of the ant of air ideally
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise they are detuned
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> something to test anyway - it may be fine
[15:48] Action: Laurenceb_ was looking some more at imu noise
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> truns out with ublox5 it takes close to 20 seconds before gps "controls" the state
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> As the error of the GPS is quite large?
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> so as mpu3000 will give moderately better performance due to low gyro noise
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> *an
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> And differential - to extrapolate course changes - is even noisier
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> gps noise is interesting - its dependant on pll loop bandwidth
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Are you assuming knowledge of the airframe leading to correlations?
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> no
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Or is this a 'black box' result.
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> yes, black box
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> you need about 20Hz of bandwidth to have any luck with gps
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> the ublox has programmable pll bandwidth up to a few hundered hz
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> but to get the best perofrmance you do posiiton/velocity at twice the bandwidth
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> and of course the processor isnt fast enough
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> hency maximum 5 or 10hz output
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> thats why faster output helps, but some of the cheaper modules dont have true 10hz output
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> the other approach is steered gps - vary narrow pll steered by the imu. Thats actually possible with some of the ublox modules, but big processor overhead
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> you mean extracting psudorange and phase info?
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> and doing it yourself
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[15:55] <Laurenceb_> its not really worth it tho - ublox5/6 is more than good enough
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> however... imu 3000 is pin compatible with itg-3200 and has the same gyros
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> and sparkfun sell it - awesome
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> id be wasting all its capabilities and just grabbing the raw gyro data :P
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> only $5 more
[16:08] Action: SpeedEvil adds to the list for free-day
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> do they actually do the imu3000 bare?
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> oops no they dont seem to
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> thats more than slightly annoying
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> invensense charge a lot for shipping
[16:12] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders why sparkfun are so keen on the adxl345
[16:12] <Laurenceb_> really lame performance
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> im reading the datasheet - dont see how you can setup the secondary irc properly
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> *i2c
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> 10.9 Register 24  AUX (Accel) Burst Read Address / Secondary I2C Bus I/O Level
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> ok so it needs as accel with x,y,z registers in that order and capable of being read consecutively
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> so thats most accels XD
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> the dual i2c ports on the lsm303dlh is actually a bonus then - imu3000 connects the accel and the magno goes to the main i2c bus
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> xyz in the right order - though you can swap x and y easily with mounting, and others less so
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[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> hi
[16:27] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> this would mean hacing my v1 autopilot obards to have some wires going off the secondary i2c
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> not bad thanks
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> that's nice to hear
[16:28] Action: Laurenceb_ is looking at the imu3000
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> sparkfun have a breakout board
[16:30] <Laurenceb_> its only real advantage for uav seems to be the crazy low noise gyros
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> the sync - fifo thingy is moderately useful i guess, so i was considering on my v2 board using the secondary i2c
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> but that ties it to the imu3000
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:34] Action: Laurenceb_ should probably just build it :)
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> yay :)
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> need to wait for food-laps.co.uk to reopen after the new year, then order ir lamp modules
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> there are reflow ovens on ebay for ~£200
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> expensive
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> not sure how good - ive heard some bad things
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> my oven still works out at around £60
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1664/picture99w.jpg
[16:40] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[16:40] <Laurenceb_> celebrating new year?
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and the canadian one for celebrating the success of the first ascent
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> and how will you celebrate Laurenceb_ ?
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> dunno :(
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> guess i have no life lol
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> guess i should probably have some sort of celebration
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:50] Action: Lunar_Lander turns on the Celebration song
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ubnt.com/nanostation
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> impressive range apparently ~8miles
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[17:47] <Laurenceb_> http://www.b3tards.com/u/808a937643997ea44d37/gliders.jpg
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> nice
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[18:03] <Randomskk> I have a measuring jug that will do 100ml but I only want about 50 if that. any ideas?
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[18:06] <Randomskk> aha, my sister has some food scales
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> if you know the density, that is no problem :)
[18:07] <Randomskk> ah damn it electronic scales, your batteries are flat?!
[18:07] <Randomskk> what
[18:07] <Randomskk> and it uses stupid 3v lithiums
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17483 have worked wll for me
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> I meant if you know the liquid's density, you can find out the volume by weighing
[18:08] <Randomskk> well these batteries are definitely flat
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> not good
[18:12] <Randomskk> right. 112g/100ml
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:03] <Laurenceb_> http://code.google.com/p/imumargalgorithm30042010sohm/downloads/detail?name=An%20efficient%20orientation%20filter%20for%20inertial%20and%20inertialmagnetic%20sensor%20arrays.pdf&can=2&q=
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[19:21] <Laurenceb_> they even include the code at the end XD
[19:21] <Darkside> hmm not long until sunrise here
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> oh happy new year
[19:23] <Darkside> heh
[19:24] <Darkside> im sittin goutside atm
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> enjoy yourself
[19:24] <Darkside> heh
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> wow that code should manage to run at 500hz on an avr
[19:29] <Laurenceb_> http://www.chrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2
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[19:31] <Laurenceb_> ^ impressive, but the code looks poor
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[20:58] Nick change: Compiler^27c3 -> The-Compiler
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[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 1 2011