highaltitude.log.20101230

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[09:30] <Nigey> morning peeps
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[09:51] <fsphil> morning
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[10:15] <russss> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD2iT8hSm0k
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[10:56] <Laurenceb_> tl;dr its screwed
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[11:35] <laurence_> are they x raying whilst one guy is standing just below?
[11:38] <russss> I assume not, I think most of that is just a show for the cameras
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[11:48] <G4TNX> Morning all, anybody got a copy of the modified TinyGPS as the one on the Falcom FSA03 page on the ukhas website appears corupt
[11:48] <jonsowman> G4TNX: I replied to your list email yesterday
[11:50] <G4TNX> Cheers, Looks like google has been eating emails, I will go searching for it, Cheers, lee
[11:50] <jonsowman> no worries
[11:50] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/u/tinygps.tgz
[11:51] <jonsowman> but the UKHAS one is not corrupt for me. nevertheless, that is just a repackaged version
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[11:53] <Nigey> hey jonsowman
[11:53] <Nigey> have a good xmas ?
[11:55] <jonsowman> very good thank you :) how was yours?
[11:56] <Nigey> very good :D spent xmas eve and xmas day at my parents, made a nice change
[11:57] <jonsowman> excellent
[11:57] <Nigey> be nice when everything returns to normal after the new year though
[11:57] <jonsowman> back to uni & work
[11:58] <DanielRichman> This looks interesting... http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[11:58] <laurence_> corrupt for me
[11:58] <Nigey> fun fun !
[11:58] <jonsowman> need to get some work done before I go back to uni - got 3 weeks til term starts again though
[11:58] <jonsowman> morning DanielRichman
[11:58] <DanielRichman> morning jonsowman
[11:58] <Nigey> hey DanielRichman
[11:58] <jonsowman> how's things? have a good xmas?
[11:59] <jonsowman> laurence_: which one?
[11:59] <laurence_> tinygps
[11:59] <laurence_> whatever it is...
[11:59] <laurence_> off ukhas
[11:59] <jonsowman> interesting
[11:59] <laurence_> archive wont open
[11:59] <jonsowman> is the one I linked to any better?
[12:00] <laurence_> gzip: /home/laurence/.cache/.fr-h9cIJ7/TinyGPS/._TinyGPS.cpp.gz: not in gzip format
[12:00] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurence
[12:00] Nick change: Laurence -> Laurence_
[12:01] <G4TNX> the one you link (tgz) is ok for me thanks
[12:01] <jonsowman> G4TNX: ok no problems :)
[12:01] <DanielRichman> maybe it's a .tar.gz which is actually not gzipped
[12:01] <DanielRichman> i.e., just a .tar
[12:01] <Laurence_> ah
[12:02] <Laurence_> what is tinygps?
[12:02] <DanielRichman> nmea parsing lib
[12:02] <DanielRichman> (for arduino)
[12:02] <Laurence_> cool
[12:03] <Nigey> hmmz had anyone got a desire hd ?
[12:03] <Nigey> has*
[12:04] <Darkside> only a normal Desire
[12:05] <Nigey> hmm might be the same on that, do you find the volume really low even on full ?
[12:05] <Darkside> yeah, its a bit quiet
[12:05] <Darkside> it doesng drive my canalphones as well as my nokia n900 does
[12:06] <Nigey> same here, my hero was much louder, this thing i hardly hear it ring :(
[12:07] <Darkside> oh, i hear mine ring
[12:07] <Darkside> i mean with music
[12:07] <Darkside> my ringtone is rather shrill
[12:07] <Nigey> ahh, same with music too mind, all audio output is very low, wondering if its a common problem or a faulty phone :/
[12:08] <Darkside> dunno
[12:26] <Laurence_> so annoying - xmlrpc only gives you squelch on/off
[12:27] <Laurence_> no way to find out if squelch is enabled
[12:27] <Laurence_> from fldigi
[12:32] <Hibby> anyone seen these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=267236
[12:32] <Hibby> could be good to experiment with :)
[12:43] <fsphil> is maplins site going slow for anyone else?
[12:43] <Darkside> oh yes..
[12:43] <fsphil> I had a hell of a time ordering bits yesterday
[12:43] <Laurence_> http://pastebin.com/eegeF5Gw
[12:44] <Laurence_> think i can bodge it like so - if the squelch hasnt been operating for 30s, ignore it
[12:45] <fsphil> ooh Hibby they've got programmable frequency deviation
[12:45] <fsphil> add a temperature sensor and could correct for the drift
[12:45] <Laurence_> neat
[12:46] <Laurence_> fldigi really needs three xmlrpc squelch states
[12:46] <Laurence_> squelched unsquelched and off
[12:46] <Laurence_> the indicator button has 3 colours, so it might not be that hard to add
[12:46] <Hibby> Yeah, I don't know what the power level is (they state 300m), but iirc it's on the data sheet. Pretty nifty.
[12:47] <Darkside> too low power imo :P
[12:47] <Darkside> then again, we can use whatever the hell we want in australia :P
[12:47] <Hibby> lol.
[12:47] <fsphil> bah
[12:47] <Darkside> sooo want to do a 5W payload
[12:47] <Darkside> dammit i'm out of beer
[12:48] <fsphil> 7 dbm
[12:48] <Hibby> I'm going to get one of my student groups to experiment with it
[12:49] <fsphil> not sure what that is in mw
[12:49] <Darkside> less than 10mW
[12:49] <Darkside> 10dBm is 10mW
[12:49] <Hibby> set up a beacon and see how long we can hear it for.
[12:49] <Darkside> it would be 5mW
[12:49] <Darkside> 3dB = half
[12:49] <fsphil> ooh it's worse than the ntx2
[12:49] <G4TNX> 7 dbm = 5mw
[12:50] <G4TNX> http://www.h-peters.com/dbmtomw.html
[12:51] <Hibby> could stick in a tiny amp circuit of some sort, but it does say that they do auto antenna tuning, so that may not work too well :/
[12:52] <fsphil> a couple of the transceivers could be useful for inter-payload comms
[12:54] <Hibby> interesting
[12:54] <Hibby> I was going to get a couple and fiddle with them, seeing as they're just so cheap
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[12:55] <fsphil> they do look nifty
[12:56] <fsphil> if 10mw can get over 500km, 5mw should be good enough too
[12:56] <Hibby> Equally, could use the transciever for sending instructions to a payload... Requesting specific data
[12:57] <Hibby> anyhoo
[12:57] <fsphil> indeedy! remote cut-down
[12:57] <Hibby> good shout. Again, will suggest it to the students as another chapter in their thesis
[12:59] <Hibby> lunch for me. Talk later
[12:59] <fsphil> laters
[13:08] <fsphil> hehe, maplin sent me a survey email asking about their level of service...
[13:09] <fsphil> seems to be a dns problem, querying www.maplin.co.uk returns two results then pauses for ages before timing out
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[13:33] <Laurence_> the wiki seems to have lost its "overwrite existing file" option
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[14:23] <Laurence_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio?&#using_with_afc
[14:24] <Laurence_> ive put up a new version of the sdr code, but the xmlrpc functionality is slightly fustrating
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[14:31] <Laurence_> anyone ehre familiar with how the xmlrpc works?
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> I know the acronym - that's about it.
[14:37] <Laurence_> its like method/function/socket spaghetti
[14:40] <Laurence_> REQ(set_button, btnSQL, params.getBoolean(0)); seems to be how they set the button
[14:40] <Laurence_> no get button function :-/
[14:44] <Laurence_> think i worked it out - using modem.get_quality then check against main.get_squelch_level and see what the state of main.get_squelch is
[14:44] <Laurence_> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.12/xmlrpc-control.html
[14:44] <Laurence_> so annoying
[14:55] <DanielRichman> Laurence_: the REQ thing is to make messing with the UI thread safe
[14:55] <DanielRichman> REQ asks some queue running th ing in the main thread to execute that function.
[14:56] <Laurence_> ah
[14:56] <DanielRichman> So to get the squelch status... hmm, you could write a function that locks a mutex, puts the status in a variable, then hits a condition variable or some sort of signal, REQ(that function), wait for the condition variable and then retrieve the result safely
[14:57] <DanielRichman> or you could patch the sqelch status code so that whenever the button's status changes a variable, guarded by a mutex, is updated
[14:57] <DanielRichman> then just lock the mutex and look at that variable when you need it
[14:57] <Laurence_> think i worked out a hackish way
[14:57] <DanielRichman> or you can take the risk and go thread unsafe. but that's L-(
[14:57] <DanielRichman> *:-(
[14:57] <Laurence_> sql=s.main.get_squelch() sig=s.modem.get_quality() lev=s.mainmain.get_squelch_level() if sql or (sig<lev and (not sql)) or (sig>lev):
[14:58] <Laurence_> think that does the job
[14:58] <Laurence_> - check the signal level and the squelch marker and apply some logic checks
[14:59] <Laurence_> basically it should only retune when the button is in the yellow or gray states
[15:00] <Laurence_> but green
[15:00] <Laurence_> *not
[15:03] <Laurence_> ideally itd look at the decoded data to work out if theres a packet being sent
[15:04] <Laurence_> but then you have to think about error and different packet structures ect
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[18:26] <MrCraig> Pairs of balloons, parachutes, and GPS modules on route. :-) Just wanted to share my retail therapy.
[18:28] <fsphil> woohoo!
[18:28] <fsphil> it's all falling into place :)
[18:29] <MrCraig> yup :-) I have almost everything I need. No answers yet from the Radio suppliers but I'll give them a chance over christmas.
[18:29] <fsphil> what radio are you going for?
[18:29] <MrCraig> All I need I think is gas and suitable cameras - and of course to build the electronics and program the pics.
[18:30] <MrCraig> the NTX2 - have the Yaesu base unit
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[18:30] <fsphil> ah the old classic
[18:31] <MrCraig> Yeah, well with the exception of the microcontrollers I wanted to follow the plans on the UKHAS wiki as closely as possible for my first flight.
[18:31] <MrCraig> Besides, I have a computer built into the dash of my battered old car and like the idea of using it as a tracker
[18:34] <MrCraig> Question - I know that the chute shouldn't inflate while ascending, but is that a concern? I don't think I can trust a deployment system.
[18:35] <natrium42> http://vimeo.com/359502
[18:35] <natrium42> it just flatters around ^
[18:35] <MrCraig> ok - then I'm happy enough with that.
[18:36] <MrCraig> What about camera shutter speeds - I've noticed that the payload's tend to spin pretty violently.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> It's daylight, which helps
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> you can add a little kite on a stick to reduce spin
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> hmm - I wonder about mounting the chute on a stick, and pointing it sideways on launch
[18:38] <MrCraig> Awesome shots btw.
[18:39] <MrCraig> I considered twin balloons give the extra mount point - the whole assembly would spin I'm sure but less agressively I'd think.
[18:44] <natrium42> <SpeedEvil> hmm - I wonder about mounting the chute on a stick, and pointing it sideways on launch <-- cusf usually do that
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> should mitigate spin
[18:48] <MrCraig> interesting: cusf trying to fund by doing ad missions like JP Aero
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Trust: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPcF66cOLFU
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe vodka
[18:53] <Laurence_> did everyone see that invite?
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> I keep getting invites
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> I just click the cancel button
[18:55] <fsphil> on irc? nothing here
[18:56] <Laurence_> interactive art
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> eah
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> ##electronics mabe
[18:57] <fsphil> I was set to away so maybe they skipped me
[18:58] <fsphil> ooh spotify have a fedora package
[19:35] <Laurence_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[19:35] <Laurence_> right finally done
[19:35] <Laurence_> you can turn the afc on and itll only retune the sdr between packets
[19:45] <Laurence_> time to try it at another flight XD
[19:49] <fsphil> do you think it could handle 300 baud over a good distance?
[19:49] <Laurence_> yes, see the test results over 280km
[19:50] <Laurence_> but you really want an lna on the front
[19:50] <Laurence_> thats what ive added to my zl-special from moonraker
[19:51] <fsphil> yea I'm interested in setting how the lna performs
[19:51] <Laurence_> the firmware no autodetects active antennas
[19:52] <Laurence_> its a bit hard to setup a proper test
[19:52] <Laurence_> ill try tomorrow if poss
[19:53] <Laurence_> try wrapping ntx2 in foil/copper tape etc and putting at other end of garden
[19:53] <Laurence_> i can at least tune the ant properly like that
[19:53] <fsphil> put a 50ohm resistor between the RF out and ground
[19:53] <fsphil> hmm that still might not be enough
[19:54] <Laurence_> ill try that and loads of foil
[19:55] <fsphil> the range of low power signals on 70cm always surprises me
[19:55] <fsphil> even without an antenna on the receiver
[19:56] <Laurence_> yeah
[19:58] <Laurence_> pity we dont have a good way to generate wide bandwidth
[19:58] <Laurence_> ive got 150khz to play with :P
[19:59] <fsphil> MFSK-256 :)
[19:59] <Laurence_> need to try some of the "more hackable" transceivers
[20:00] <fsphil> there's a module for the 817 for outputting higher bandwidth USB, for decoding DRM signals
[20:01] <Laurence_> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/4975
[20:02] <DanielRichman> Laurence_: that looks awesome. What are the rough hardware costs of that kind of receiver?
[20:02] <Laurence_> if made from scratch maybe £15
[20:03] <Laurence_> i spend £40 each on the eval boards as im lazy
[20:03] <Laurence_> so ~£60 for my receiver
[20:03] <DanielRichman> nice
[20:04] <Laurence_> cc1020 eval board - avr -ftdi
[20:04] <Laurence_> in a little aluminium case
[20:06] <Laurence_> the max7031 looks like it could be used with an ADC to grab the IF
[20:08] <Laurence_> the cc1020 does suffer a little when used for very narrowband as the adcs on I and Q are only 3 bit
[20:09] <Laurence_> tho atm im just using the AGC setting from the app notes - its very agressive with the AGC and tries to use all bits
[20:09] <Laurence_> if it was slower and tried to use slightly less adc range it might handle interference a little better
[20:12] <Laurence_> but out in a field where we are most of the time the present settings are best
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[20:23] <Laurence_> in fact mx7033 looks perfect - just grab the raw if at MIXOUT
[20:23] <Laurence_> *max7033
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[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:24] <MrCraig> back later all.
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[21:53] <Laurence_> lol InteractiveArt is chaos
[21:53] <Laurence_> the mods invited everyone now they are banning them all
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> we are approaching 2011!!!
[21:59] <Laurence_> one more day
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> Laurence_ do you think making the electrostatic collector is difficult?
[22:03] <Laurence_> nope - the pump was expensive
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:04] <Laurence_> and in hindsight the use of a pressure sensor across the filter to find flow wasnt the smartest idea
[22:04] <Laurence_> id probably add a rev counter to the pump if i made one with a pump
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[22:04] <Laurence_> or lose the pump and get something cheap
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:04] <Laurence_> and make a flow sensor of some sort
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> or find someone who already has such a device :)
[22:05] <Laurence_> for much less than the pump you could get a mems hot film sensor
[22:05] <Laurence_> honeywell make them
[22:05] <Laurence_> or make your own - i tried with a "grain of wheat" lamp
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> as a flowmeter?
[22:06] <Laurence_> yes
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:06] <Laurence_> hot wire anemometer in a tube
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> thank you :)
[22:07] <Laurence_> are you in the UK?
[22:07] <Laurence_> rapid sell the bulbs here
[22:08] <Laurence_> i made a airflow sensor using just a decased bulb connected directly to an opamps
[22:08] <Laurence_> ~10ma
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> I'm in germany
[22:09] <Laurence_> but the tungsten element oxidises above 300C, so you need to run it at low temperature and add temperature compensation to get accurate flow
[22:09] <Laurence_> ok - maybe try ebay for the bulbs, but if you're really desperate to make a flowmeter like that i can post you some
[22:09] Action: Laurence_ has ~100
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[22:10] <Laurence_> i was working on the flowmeter for something unrelated - airspeed on micro uavs
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the info, I'll ask you again when I need them
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> again, thank you :)
[22:11] <Laurence_> turns out its not the best approach - vulnerable to dust impact
[22:12] <Laurence_> i did some simulations of a 0603 pt100 sensor on a bit of pcb exposed to the airflow - pulse it with ~20ms current bursts and monitor the temperature vrs time afterwards
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> was that better?
[22:14] <Laurence_> not sure - its a bit complex to simulate
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:14] <Laurence_> dont know the internal structure etc
[22:14] <Laurence_> its certainly a promising approach
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:15] <Laurence_> but i found some data from a commercial uav company who had calibrated a honeywell diff pressure sensor really well
[22:15] <Laurence_> turns out that approach isnt too bad
[22:15] <Laurence_> ~4 or 5 point temperature calibration and a good adc
[22:16] <Laurence_> hardly any off the off the shelf digital diff pressure sensors with i2c are up to the job
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:16] <Laurence_> or not avaliable - the honeywell ones are really hard to source
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I just looked for them on google
[22:17] <Laurence_> sensortechnics are good
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> found it
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[22:18] <Laurence_> but in the end i went for ltc2481 and honeywell 26pc01smt
[22:18] <Laurence_> as it was lower power
[22:18] <Laurence_> and smaller + lighter
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[22:20] <Laurence_> also seems to have been flown on military uavs
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> thus flight-proven
[22:20] <Laurence_> still need to get my boards populated
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:21] <Laurence_> need to make a relfow oven first :P
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:22] <Laurence_> and as the BOM is £140, im debating populate one v1 board and use for testing vrs go for v2
[22:22] <Laurence_> - add ublox6 and multiple antennas
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> so that v1 is cheaper?
[22:23] <Laurence_> i have too many project on the go
[22:23] <Laurence_> slightly
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:24] <Laurence_> taoglas make some really nice 434mhz antennas
[22:25] <Laurence_> http://www.taoglas.com/antennas/ISM/Internal_ISM_-_Flex_Circuit_Antennas/
[22:26] <Laurence_> ^ perfect for uav
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[22:27] <Laurence_> but anyway, electrostatic dust collectors
[22:27] <Laurence_> id probably go for aquarium pump with either hot wire or diff pressure based control loop
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[22:37] Nick change: Nigey -> Nigey|Away
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[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurence: why not fan
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> maybe a fan doesn't do laminar flow
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[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> I remember that laminar flow is required, that was in the paper by Laurence_
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[00:00] --- Fri Dec 31 2010