highaltitude.log.20101228

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[02:02] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> Ah - that's good.
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[02:05] <SpeedEvil> I was just checking when I required planning permission for hazerdous substances.
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> I think - unless I've got the wrong legislation - that I'm safe.
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[02:06] <SpeedEvil> As it was - for example - listing 25 tons of chlorine oxide
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[07:28] <Darkside> http://www.freetronics.com/products/mobsendat
[07:28] <Darkside> oh man
[07:28] <Darkside> awesome
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[09:44] <jcoxon> morning
[09:47] <Upu> morning
[09:47] <Upu> just the person actually :)
[09:48] <Upu> Just testing to make sure my code handles - longditude
[09:48] <Upu> -ive even
[09:48] <Upu> which it does as my location is -1.something
[09:48] <Upu> but I put a GPS simulator on a serial port
[09:49] <Upu> and fed it random locations the simulator gives out
[09:49] <Upu> $GPGGA,094313,5521.3389,N,-107.0807,W,1,5,21.000,21.000,M,0.000,M,21.000,124*55
[09:49] <jcoxon> uhuh
[09:49] <Upu> do other GPS chips give out -107 and put the sign in the GPGGA string ?
[09:50] <Upu> mine would just say 107.0807
[09:50] <Upu> W
[09:50] <Upu> I'm fairly confident mine is ok but just wondered
[09:50] <jcoxon> i thought it swapped E to W if necessary
[09:51] <Upu> yeah thats what I though ok stuff this simulator then :)
[09:51] <Upu> the - in the GPGGA string does break my code :)
[09:51] <Upu> $$AVA,52,09:43:13,055.3556,-65535.64356,21,5,0,0*2E77
[09:51] <jcoxon> you on an arduino?
[09:51] <Upu> yes
[09:51] <jcoxon> using tinyGPS lib?
[09:52] <Upu> no my own code
[09:52] <jcoxon> fair enough
[09:52] <Upu> Well code seems to check out
[09:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:52] <Upu> looks like I'm good to go
[09:52] <jcoxon> what sim are you using?
[09:52] <Upu> Tro GPS Simulator
[09:52] <jcoxon> try the one off the wiki
[09:53] Nick change: The-Compiler -> Compiler^27c3
[09:53] <Upu> looking for it now, btw asked the missus about containers
[09:54] <Upu> she's going to take a look at work
[09:54] <jcoxon> oh thanks
[09:54] <Upu> internal 10 x 10 ?
[09:54] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:54] <Upu> I could make some baby ones up sometime, just a bit too cold outside at the moment
[09:54] <Upu> hot wire cutter works fine, my hands don't :)
[09:55] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:55] <jcoxon> its okay
[09:55] <Upu> any idea where this would be on the Wiki ?
[09:56] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:code
[09:56] <Upu> lovely thx
[09:57] <Upu> meh coding :)
[09:58] <Upu> anyone got those precompiled for Win 7 64 bit ?
[10:03] <Upu> back soon
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[10:05] Action: jcoxon has his copy of Make magazine yay
[10:10] <fsphil> what are they making these days? haven't read make in ages
[10:11] <jcoxon> i've just got hte back copy from november - its their DIY space one
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[10:14] <m1x10> arg! The mailman hit my bell in the morning but i didnt get up. Now I went to the post office and they told me that I should pass tomorrow!
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[10:21] <m1x10> http://www.planethunters.org/
[10:21] <Compiler^27c3> there are some livestreams at 27c3 (a hacker event I'm at) which might be interesting for you ;) "File -> Print -> Electronics" in Saal 1 and "Distributed FPGA number crunching for the masses" in Saal 2, starting in around 10 minutes. Schedule at http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/day_2010-12-28.en.html - streams at http://27c3.fem-net.de/ (use WMV because the flash player for H.264 sucks)
[10:22] <m1x10> Using data from kepler telescope, individuals can locate exoplanets
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[10:22] <Laurenceb_> THERE IT IS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:23] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, ??
[10:23] <Laurenceb_> an exoplanet
[10:25] <m1x10> eheh
[10:28] <m1x10> bah
[10:28] <m1x10> I dont understand what pattern I have to see
[10:28] <m1x10> It says for a transit. I dont know what this means
[10:29] <m1x10> :(
[10:29] <Laurenceb_> planet goes in front of the star
[10:29] <Laurenceb_> so light intensity drops
[10:29] <Laurenceb_> this sort of thing is _hard_
[10:29] <Laurenceb_> what data do they provide?
[10:30] <m1x10> Thats the data I said before.
[10:30] <m1x10> Those white dots.. what are they?
[10:30] <Darkside> hmm
[10:31] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[10:31] <Darkside> stars? planets?
[10:31] <m1x10> no
[10:31] <m1x10> planets
[10:31] <m1x10> we are looking for planets
[10:31] <m1x10> those are stars?
[10:32] <Laurenceb_> i would image so lol
[10:32] <Laurenceb_> *imagine
[10:32] <Laurenceb_> what sort of image file are you looking at?
[10:32] <m1x10> SPH10132181
[10:32] <m1x10> First identified at 13:38 on 16th December 2010 by planet hunter 'pabell', 'eric the red', 'MistrX', 'Paperclip', 'svenw' and 'cookiemonster42'.
[10:33] <m1x10> http://www.planethunters.org/candidates
[10:33] <Laurenceb_> cant log in
[10:33] <m1x10> seems that actually ppl find them
[10:33] <m1x10> http://www.planethunters.org/sources/SPH10132181
[10:33] <m1x10> I logged ::P
[10:34] <Laurenceb_> png, bmp?
[10:34] <m1x10> SPH10132181
[10:34] <m1x10> Dwarf with a radius 0.9 times that of our Sun. It has a magnitude of 15.4 and is spectral type G
[10:35] <Laurenceb_> what sort of data do they give out?
[10:35] <Laurenceb_> what sort of image files
[10:35] <m1x10> I dont also understand what are those numbers that describe the x,y axes
[10:35] <m1x10> axis*
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> that'll be the orbit
[10:36] <m1x10> 1.0100
[10:36] <m1x10> ehm?
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> but ffs why dont you answer me question
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats a description of the orbit - eccentricity of something
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> *my
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> 1)do they provide image data
[10:38] <Laurenceb_> 2)what format is the image data
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[10:38] <m1x10> see the site
[10:38] <m1x10> its just those white dots
[10:38] <m1x10> and you got to find the planet/star
[10:39] <m1x10> thats the 'data'
[10:39] <m1x10> sorry for the misleading
[10:39] <m1x10> what is FFS ?
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> so you see an image on the website?
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> right click, look at its properties?
[10:41] <fsphil> FFS could be an old amiga file system, but in this case I don't think so :)
[10:41] <m1x10> Laurenceb: why dont you visit the site on your own?
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> i dont have a password
[10:41] <m1x10> <Laurenceb_> but ffs why dont you answer me question: what is ffs?
[10:42] <m1x10> you dont need a pass
[10:42] <m1x10> Hi fsphil!
[10:42] <fsphil> g'day m1x10
[10:43] <m1x10> ffs= for fuck sake ?
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> ok... so you get brightness data
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> surely thats the easy part
[10:45] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/129874
[10:45] <fsphil> hmm.. that image loads about 33% then dies
[10:45] <fsphil> ah there it goes
[10:45] <m1x10> lol
[10:46] <m1x10> fsphil: I got a question
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> you could do that with a really simple script
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> this seems more than slightly daft
[10:46] <fsphil> yea, seems like something a computer would be really good at
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> aiui the tricky bit is finding the brightness
[10:46] <m1x10> Now I have the mcu with a 14mhz crystal at 5v.
[10:47] <fsphil> aye
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> you need a calibration curve and sensitivity profile for each pixel to do it properly
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> deriving those is the fun bit
[10:47] <m1x10> If I power it with 3v3 the mcu will automatically work at 10mhz despite I have a 14mhz crystal?
[10:47] <fsphil> nope, it will try to run at whatever speed the crystal runs at
[10:47] <fsphil> it might even work
[10:47] <m1x10> ah, hence auto-overclock
[10:48] <m1x10> over-clock
[10:48] <m1x10> now I get the meaning of the word over-clock :)
[10:48] <fsphil> early overclocking was simply just swapping the crystal :)
[10:49] <m1x10> omg
[10:50] <fsphil> did you just try it?
[10:50] <m1x10> nop
[10:50] <m1x10> Im waiting for the 3v3 power source
[10:50] <m1x10> which will be a usb2tll breakout
[10:50] <m1x10> from sparkfun
[10:51] <fsphil> got a great little 3.3v/5v power supply from sparkfun, connects directly to the breadboard
[10:51] <m1x10> mh?
[10:52] <m1x10> link?
[10:52] <m1x10> I just made the order :(
[10:53] <fsphil> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9319
[10:55] <m1x10> hate u
[10:55] <m1x10> :p
[10:55] <m1x10> its cool
[10:55] <m1x10> but
[10:55] <fsphil> there's also this one: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/114
[10:56] <m1x10> I need a way to drive my debug messages to some device
[10:56] <fsphil> there's a sparkfun free day coming up, you might be able to get one then ;-)
[10:57] <m1x10> mhh, will be guarding missiles again ?
[10:58] <m1x10> I can give you my account
[10:58] <m1x10> play for me
[10:58] <m1x10> :p
[10:58] <jcoxon> job 1 or 2 done - car tax paid, now for MOT
[10:58] <fsphil> cars -- absorber of moneys
[10:58] <jcoxon> oh yes
[10:58] <m1x10> yeah
[10:58] <jcoxon> this car needs some serious servicing - not going to be cheap
[10:59] <m1x10> taxes - annual service - fuel
[11:01] <m1x10> here the unleaded costs 1Litre 1.56E
[11:07] Action: fsphil gives up on HF antennas --- I've concluded that they're magic, and there's not enough magic HF dust here to make them work
[11:08] <Randomskk> :P
[11:10] <Darkside> fsphil: wha?
[11:10] <Darkside> hf antenna for what
[11:10] <jcoxon> fsphil, i think its all to do with not living in an urban area
[11:10] <fsphil> anything -- I've tried a few different types, and apart from WSPR I just can't be heard
[11:10] <Darkside> dipole?
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[11:10] <Darkside> biiiiig dipole?
[11:10] <Darkside> :P
[11:10] <fsphil> no room for a full dipole, but I did try and inverted V
[11:10] <fsphil> sideways inverted V
[11:10] <Darkside> i've done that
[11:11] <Darkside> means you'll really only be heard with skywave
[11:11] <Darkside> what power?
[11:11] <fsphil> jcoxon, probably yea -- all the good signals are probably overpowered
[11:11] <fsphil> Darkside, 5 watts
[11:11] <Darkside> ooooh
[11:11] <fsphil> yea, not much for HF
[11:12] <Darkside> you may not get skywave with that
[11:12] <Darkside> so you'll be limited to groundwave only, which wont go too far on 5W
[11:12] <Darkside> so unless conditions are *really* good, you wont get out well
[11:12] <Randomskk> fsphil: get moar power :P
[11:12] <fsphil> moar power, arrr
[11:12] <fsphil> but still, I should be able to hear more than I do
[11:13] <jcoxon> anyone interested in getting a GPSbee from seeedstudio?
[11:13] <jcoxon> http://bit.ly/gH9EWm
[11:13] <jcoxon> ?35 if we order 10
[11:14] <Randomskk> have to brb but yes
[11:14] <fsphil> I'm good for 1
[11:15] <jcoxon> email request please - i'll lose track otherwise
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> its ublox5?
[11:21] <jcoxon> yes
[11:21] <jcoxon> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/gps-bee-kit-with-mini-embedded-antenna-p-560.html?cPath=144_145
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> i was going to order ublox6
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> does it come with the ant?
[11:22] <jcoxon> yes
[11:22] <jcoxon> a mini patch one
[11:22] <jcoxon> m1x10, has got it working well
[11:22] <jcoxon> or for $5.50 you can get a larger patch one (a normal size one)
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> id be interested for $35
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> nah i like the small ones
[11:23] <jcoxon> 35 pounds
[11:23] <jcoxon> 55 dollars
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> bah
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> but thats the listed price
[11:23] <jcoxon> yeah but shipping...
[11:23] <jcoxon> from china...
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:24] <jcoxon> if you order 10 you get free dhl shipping
[11:24] <jcoxon> 3-5 days
[11:24] <jcoxon> if you go their cheapy hongkong post its more like a month
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> fraid im not going to get one - i need to order some pcbs at some point soon
[11:24] <jcoxon> no worries
[11:32] <fsphil> how much for posting it on once you get it, jcoxon?
[11:34] <jcoxon> oh not much
[11:34] <jcoxon> just requires me to actually make it to a post office
[11:34] <jcoxon> that i struggle with
[11:34] <jcoxon> :-p
[11:35] <jcoxon> 2-3 pounds i guess
[11:36] <jcoxon> not sure you'd find a ublox 5 cheaper
[11:36] <jcoxon> and seems more structurally sound then the fsa03
[11:38] <fsphil> yea
[11:38] <jcoxon> add you to my list?
[11:39] <fsphil> yep, one for me -- was about to post to the list
[11:39] <jcoxon> oh i'm just about to send a summary round
[11:39] <jcoxon> so we are on 5 out of 10
[11:40] <fsphil> I'd get another, but I've already got a spare fsa03
[11:40] <jcoxon> want a breakout board?
[11:40] <jcoxon> my fsa03 doesn't work
[11:40] <jcoxon> :-(
[11:41] <fsphil> sure -- soldering the wires directly was pretty scary :)
[11:41] <fsphil> what happened the module?
[11:41] <jcoxon> i think it suffered an antenna disaster
[11:42] <fsphil> ah, the tim effect
[11:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:42] <fsphil> I'm a bit worried about that happening here on launch day
[11:42] <jcoxon> blob of glue?
[11:42] <fsphil> yea, and wrap it in something spongy
[11:43] <jcoxon> do you have code to check the nav5 status?
[11:44] <fsphil> It's in there but not enabled yet - it's a bit of a hack
[11:45] <fsphil> I'm gonna have it fire off the command to switch every 5 minutes or so
[11:45] <jcoxon> sensible
[11:46] <fsphil> can the ublox5 be put in a sleep mode?
[11:48] <fsphil> oh, this looks interesting: ftp://ftp.nalresearch.com/Satellite%20Products/Standard%20Modems/A3LA-XG/A3LA-XG%20SW%20Version%201.0.0/GPS%20Technical%20Documents/NEO-5Q/NEO-5Q%20Power%20Management%20Considerations.pdf
[11:49] <jcoxon> fsphil, so yes :-)
[11:50] <fsphil> yep - the rf bits can be turned off by command
[11:50] <fsphil> neat
[11:50] <fsphil> there's only 4ma difference between eco mode and normal then tracking
[11:51] <fsphil> only a big difference during acquisition
[11:51] <jcoxon> guess by that time the hard part is done
[11:51] <m1x10> fsphil check ukhas page. I have many commands for ublox
[11:51] <fsphil> I did m1x10, some good stuff there
[11:51] <m1x10> I did them :)
[11:52] <m1x10> thats why I didnt want to find other gps when my fsa03 broke
[11:52] <m1x10> The gps bee is very promising
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[11:54] <jcoxon> okay bbl
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[11:54] <fsphil> the best power saving seems to be to switch off the power entirely
[11:54] <fsphil> a bit crude :)
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[14:06] <mixio> Hello !
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[14:49] <mixio> Hello
[14:55] <fsphil> 'lo
[15:01] <jcoxon> fsphil, eek - your frequency tracker does funny things if you try and overrule it
[15:02] <fsphil> yea - if you click outside the range, it moves the frequency that you click on to the centre
[15:02] <fsphil> at least it should :)
[15:03] <jcoxon> yeah, its tuning my radio really well
[15:03] <jcoxon> just need to get rig control updating properly
[15:03] <jcoxon> there is a rig control thread
[15:03] <jcoxon> just i don't seem to be able to activate it in dl-fldigi --hab
[15:03] <fsphil> ooh, I had a look at that
[15:04] <fsphil> the thread is running
[15:04] <fsphil> but, it's updating the wrong rig control
[15:04] <fsphil> frequency control even
[15:04] <jcoxon> oh i see
[15:04] <jcoxon> okay well i'll fix that then
[15:05] <fsphil> the other one is being created over the top of it, then hidden
[15:05] <fsphil> all the updates go to the hidden one
[15:05] <jcoxon> so is teh solution to direct the updates to the current one
[15:05] <jcoxon> or activate the hidden one instead?
[15:06] <fsphil> it's being created in noop_controls()
[15:06] <fsphil> maybe have a dl-version of that function
[15:07] <jcoxon> well we already hid a few functions
[15:07] <jcoxon> such as the tx window
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[15:09] <jcoxon> is it more that we need to do this:
[15:09] <jcoxon> qsoFreqDisp = qsoFreqDisp2;
[15:09] <fsphil> not sure what the point of that is
[15:10] <jcoxon> in UI_select it seems to direct the qsoFreqDisp to the right interface
[15:10] <fsphil> the show_frequency() function send the new frequency to all three directly
[15:10] <jcoxon> yeah i saw that
[15:10] <jcoxon> but then why does our qsoFreqDisp2 not update?
[15:10] <fsphil> guess that function is older than qsoFreqDisp
[15:10] <fsphil> they just never updated it
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[15:34] <jcoxon> fsphil, bingo
[15:34] <fsphil> pong
[15:34] <jcoxon> got it
[15:34] <jcoxon> basically i unhide it in noop_controls
[15:34] <jcoxon> if (!bHAB) {
[15:34] <jcoxon> qsoFreqDisp1 = new cFreqControl(defwidget); qsoFreqDisp1->hide();
[15:34] <jcoxon> }
[15:35] <fsphil> that should do it
[15:35] <jcoxon> oh i changed it to qsoFreqDisp1
[15:35] <jcoxon> not sure if that matters
[15:35] <fsphil> no idea-- I didn't even know there where three of them
[15:37] <jcoxon> seems to work fine
[15:38] <fsphil> there's one for each TopFrame -- three of those
[15:38] <fsphil> ooh they create one for each style of UI
[15:38] <fsphil> that's a bit wasteful
[15:41] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:41] <jcoxon> yay it works on my linux box
[15:42] <fsphil> if you change frequency on the rig it should update on the screen too
[15:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:42] <jcoxon> thats how i tested it
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[15:45] <jcoxon> intersting - my radio won't turn on if my computer is polling it via the serial port
[15:45] <fsphil> an 817?
[15:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:48] <fsphil> that's really odd
[15:56] <jcoxon> right thats working nicely
[15:56] <jcoxon> we should have dl-fldigi feed back the freq to the server
[15:56] <jcoxon> bbl
[15:57] <fsphil> yea
[15:57] <fsphil> I'd thought about having it posted to the irc channel occasionally
[16:14] <fsphil> cool, found some hellschreiber on 10m
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[16:20] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[16:23] Nick change: dave|ca -> stilldavid
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[16:47] <SpeedEvil> http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/12/28/0918200/NASA-To-Continue-Funding-Canceled-Ares-Project-Until-March
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> argh
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-announces-plan-to-launch-700-million-into-spa,1950/
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[17:29] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[17:53] <jcoxon> phew - got a lock
[17:53] <m1x10> gpsbee?
[17:53] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:53] <jcoxon> i have this fear about gps locks
[17:53] <m1x10> tiny antenna?
[17:54] <jcoxon> no big one
[17:54] <m1x10> oh lol
[17:54] <m1x10> I got lock with tiny
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> drop flares! Evasive manoevers!
[17:54] <m1x10> :p
[17:54] <jcoxon> my room is particularly bad for gps signal
[17:54] <m1x10> 2D lock though
[17:54] <jcoxon> i think its the double glazing
[17:54] <m1x10> I think gpsbee will work great with tiny antenna in open sky
[17:55] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[18:00] <m1x10> Im waiting the big ant from seeed
[18:00] <m1x10> is it double sized?
[18:01] <jcoxon> a bit bigger then double
[18:01] <jcoxon> its the normal size
[18:02] <m1x10> like this: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/465 ?
[18:03] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:03] <m1x10> oh
[18:03] <m1x10> thats big
[18:03] <jcoxon> but with out the circuitry underneath
[18:03] <m1x10> ye sure
[18:03] <m1x10> only with the ufl cable
[18:03] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:04] <m1x10> I have the same big ant on my recovery module
[18:04] <m1x10> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs589.ash2/154171_1485363778883_1377549819_1167430_1658553_n.jpg
[18:05] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/navsats/theory.html
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> funky
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> Doing it oldskool
[18:06] <m1x10> I only understand the greek derived words, lol.
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[18:08] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
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[18:26] <Laurenceb_> looks like ST bin their accels
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> lis302dl is the reject lis302dlh
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> my lis302dl noise is appalling
[18:26] <natrium42> bonjour mes enfants
[18:27] <Laurenceb_> oh go back to france you cheese eating surrender monkey
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> :P
[18:28] <natrium42> je t'aime
[18:34] <m1x10> lol
[18:34] <m1x10> parle vou francais?
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[18:37] <fsphil> Je ne sais pas.
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[18:43] <m1x10> hah
[18:43] <m1x10> Je ma pel m1x10
[18:47] Nick change: Nigey|Away -> Nigey
[18:47] <Nigey> rar, belated Merry Xmas :)
[18:48] <m1x10> hi Niger
[18:48] <m1x10> Merry Xmas too
[18:48] <Nigey> hey m1x10..thankoo :D
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> merry christmas Nigey
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/JHqww.png <- accel being moved around on table - thats position
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> not very exciting but it seems to work
[19:40] <m1x10> COOL: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
[19:48] <fsphil> I wonder if they'd receive broadcast tv from the iss on a portable telly
[19:48] <fsphil> from/on
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[20:02] <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Pointing would be fun, as would tuning
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[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Ah - the reality of space exploration.
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> 'I can't find the eggs, where are the eggs'
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dabs.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-sl510-2847-pentium-t4200-2ghz-2gb-320gb-15-6--dos-2000-laptop-78XL.html
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> ^not too bad
[20:24] Action: SpeedEvil likes his x60s.
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> need to buy a new machine...
[20:27] Action: SpeedEvil stabs the widescreen mafia.
[20:27] <fsphil> yay
[20:27] <fsphil> killem
[20:30] <natrium42> armstrong&miller?
[20:50] MrCraig (~MrCraig@host86-159-69-14.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:50] <MrCraig> Merry Christmas (belated)
[20:50] <natrium42> merry christmas to you too
[20:51] <MrCraig> :-)
[20:54] <MrCraig> Can anyone give me a ballpoint price point on the Radiometrix NTX2?
[20:57] <fsphil> between £15 and £20
[21:00] <MrCraig> thanks fsphil - doesn't state prices on the radiometrix website :)
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/lenovo-thinkpad-sl510-2847-p-t4200-2-ghz-156-tft-1.html
[21:00] <fsphil> yea you need to email them .. but last time they quoted me £15+vat
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> cheaper theres :D
[21:00] <MrCraig> thanks :)
[21:01] <MrCraig> Time to do some ordering before the VAT increases
[21:01] <natrium42> donate whatever is left to jimmy wales :D
[21:01] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:222:43ff:fe7b:5372) joined #highaltitude.
[21:02] <natrium42> how can you say no to that face?
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> the eyes
[21:06] <natrium42> Laurenceb_, http://www.fifthstreetyachtclub.org/assets/images/puppy_eyes.jpg
[21:07] <natrium42> "donate now bitchiz"
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:07] <MrCraig> lol
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=88592
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> :(
[21:14] Action: Laurenceb_ rage
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[21:18] <Laurenceb_> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise he was so active
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> has he been working that hard every day for the past 20+ years ?!
[21:25] <MrCraig> Thanks for the pointers - some orders placed :) Talk again soon
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[21:42] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[21:42] <fsphil> pong!
[21:42] <m1x10> hey
[21:42] <m1x10> You was the one that said
[21:42] <m1x10> If I have the HEX file
[21:42] <m1x10> I can upload it
[21:42] <fsphil> yea
[21:42] <m1x10> without having bootloader?
[21:43] <m1x10> yes?
[21:43] <fsphil> the hex should contain the program
[21:43] <m1x10> without having bootloader?
[21:43] <fsphil> yea - if it's programmed on the avr it doesn't need to be loaded
[21:43] <m1x10> what do u mean by that?
[21:44] <m1x10> "if it's programmed on the avr"
[21:44] <fsphil> same way the bootloader is programmed
[21:44] <m1x10> ee
[21:44] <m1x10> anyway
[21:44] <m1x10> found that arduino produces the HEX too
[21:45] <m1x10> I'll try to upload it from the avrdude
[21:45] <fsphil> yea, that might work
[21:45] <m1x10> this upload will erase the bootloadeR?
[21:45] <fsphil> yes
[21:45] <m1x10> lol
[21:45] <fsphil> but you can reflash it
[21:45] <m1x10> sure
[21:45] <m1x10> wait to test
[21:45] <m1x10> and tell you
[21:46] <m1x10> Im trying to find ways to get rid of arduino little by little
[21:46] <m1x10> :)
[21:46] <natrium42> m1x10++;
[21:46] <fsphil> without the bootloader you get two uarts :)
[21:46] <m1x10> why?
[21:46] <m1x10> natrium42 lola
[21:48] <m1x10> fsphil: how 2 uarts? Dont do that! U know how Iam doing about the uart issues
[21:49] <fsphil> haha, nah nothing to worry about
[21:49] <fsphil> just without the bootloader stealing one of the uarts, you can use both for whatever you want
[21:52] <m1x10> but I will need the console
[21:52] <m1x10> to send messages
[21:52] <m1x10> C:\Users\mixio>avrdude -p m644p -c usbtiny -U flash:w:C:\Users\mixio\AppData\Local\Temp\build7375993235034158534.tmp\GPSBee_pde.cpp.hex
[21:52] <fsphil> true, or you could send them over the radio
[21:52] <m1x10> Im ready to nuke
[21:53] <m1x10> mhhh
[21:53] <m1x10> Invalid format.
[21:54] <natrium42> windows :S
[21:54] <m1x10> But the contents look exactly how the bootloader was
[21:55] <m1x10> fsphil you said something about file format some days ago
[21:55] <fsphil> just about the intel format thingy
[21:55] <fsphil> not sure what other formats there are
[21:55] Action: m1x10 brings a shark drink
[21:56] <m1x10> yeah tell me
[21:56] <m1x10> that
[22:03] <m1x10> avrdude: verifying ...
[22:03] <m1x10> avrdude: 3584 bytes of flash verified
[22:03] <m1x10> avrdude: safemode: Fuses OK
[22:03] <m1x10> avrdude done. Thank you.
[22:03] <m1x10> Thank you too
[22:03] <fsphil> hehe
[22:03] <m1x10> now let me open console
[22:03] <m1x10> to see whats happening
[22:04] <m1x10> oooooooooooooooooh
[22:04] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[22:04] <m1x10> program started instantly
[22:04] <fsphil> sweet
[22:04] <m1x10> no more to wait 5-6 secs
[22:04] <m1x10> damn!
[22:04] <m1x10> bootloaders suck
[22:04] <fsphil> they're handy if you don't have a programmer
[22:04] <m1x10> wait to resume what i have done now
[22:05] <m1x10> Why do I need a bootloader when I dont have a programmer?
[22:05] <fsphil> because there would be no other way to load the program :)
[22:06] <m1x10> So this means that the programmer does something else except uploading the program
[22:06] <m1x10> It tells the mcu how to load the actual program?
[22:06] <m1x10> I dont get it
[22:06] <fsphil> avrdude flashes the program into the avr's memory
[22:07] <m1x10> yes
[22:07] <m1x10> in the 64kb of flash's space
[22:07] <fsphil> yea
[22:07] <m1x10> sweet, go on
[22:08] <fsphil> not sure how the bootloader works
[22:08] <fsphil> do you have to reload the program each time you turn it on?
[22:08] <m1x10> you mean if i switch off and then on?
[22:09] <fsphil> yea
[22:09] <m1x10> I switched off everything then back on and program executes normally
[22:10] <m1x10> Why arduino needs bootloader+program? while avrdude needs just the program?
[22:10] <m1x10> thats the actual question.
[22:10] <jcoxon> arduino uses avrdude
[22:11] <m1x10> oh
[22:11] <fsphil> bootloader just needs a serial port
[22:11] Action: m1x10 got confused
[22:11] <m1x10> lets do it again.
[22:12] <m1x10> I uploaded my program using avrdude. Simple nice.
[22:12] <m1x10> I uploaded my program using arduino BUT I needed to have a bootloader already on the mcu.
[22:12] <jcoxon> via the programmer? or the serial port?
[22:13] <m1x10> via the programmer the 1st via serial the 2nd
[22:13] <m1x10> aaaaa
[22:13] <m1x10> so the serial does the things
[22:13] <jcoxon> basically the bootloader allows you to just upload over the serial port
[22:13] <m1x10> aha
[22:13] <m1x10> just got it
[22:13] <m1x10> so its completely useless
[22:13] <m1x10> if u got a programmer
[22:13] <jcoxon> yes
[22:14] <jcoxon> but programmers are an additional cost
[22:14] <m1x10> the 30$ I paid to adafruit?
[22:14] <m1x10> bah..
[22:14] <jcoxon> they used to be a lot more
[22:15] <fsphil> also the programmer means you can flash any avr chip
[22:15] <m1x10> not nowdays !
[22:15] <fsphil> with or without bootloader
[22:15] <m1x10> cool
[22:15] <m1x10> yes I can see. usbtiny supports many avrs
[22:15] <m1x10> but fsphil
[22:16] <m1x10> when I changed the crystal
[22:16] <m1x10> you told me to recompile the bootloader at the correct freq.
[22:16] <m1x10> so I did and everything worked.
[22:16] <fsphil> yep, otherwise the serial port won't work at the proper speed and the bootloader won't work
[22:17] <m1x10> ah
[22:17] <fsphil> but if you don't have the bootloader anymore, then no need to worry
[22:17] <m1x10> so its all about get sync with the serial
[22:17] <fsphil> yep
[22:17] <m1x10> crap
[22:17] <m1x10> too much complexity for nothing
[22:17] <fsphil> hehe, it's simpler without the bootloader :)
[22:17] <m1x10> yeah
[22:18] <m1x10> even the program starts immediately
[22:18] <m1x10> I guess that 644p bootloader was some bad piece of thing to make 5-6 secs of delay
[22:18] <fsphil> the delay was probably intentional -- it needed to listen out for the program
[22:19] <m1x10> mhh
[22:19] <m1x10> So today I got rid of that
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[22:20] <m1x10> Now last thing that remains is too make an alternative way for my debug msgs
[22:20] <m1x10> radio is a neat solution but i dont like it
[22:20] <fsphil> morse code over an LED :)
[22:20] <m1x10> omg
[22:21] <m1x10> Im parsing lots of stuff. I cant work with a led.
[22:22] <m1x10> can I use some random digital pins on the avr
[22:22] <fsphil> you could use newsoftserial
[22:22] <m1x10> its not supported for our freq
[22:23] <m1x10> its for 10mhz 16mhz and 20mhz
[22:23] <fsphil> really? I'd have thought it would prefer the new frequency
[22:23] <m1x10> no
[22:23] <m1x10> I red the lib documentation
[22:23] <m1x10> and the source code
[22:23] <m1x10> and it only supports those freqs
[22:23] <m1x10> even arduino didnt let me upload
[22:24] <m1x10> and responded with that message
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[22:24] <m1x10> but let me tell u something
[22:24] <m1x10> can I use some random digital pins on the avr
[22:24] <m1x10> and connect them to some external serial device
[22:25] <m1x10> which is connected to my pc through usb for example
[22:25] <m1x10> and tx my debug to that digital pin
[22:25] <fsphil> that's what newsoftserial is suppose to do
[22:25] <m1x10> yes in software
[22:25] <m1x10> Im talking about hardware
[22:26] <m1x10> wire an individual uart device to a digital pin on the avr
[22:26] <m1x10> and tx my msgs to this pin
[22:26] Action: m1x10 gonna storm #sparkfun about this
[22:27] <jcoxon> eek
[22:27] <fsphil> there isn't an external uart -- how would you communicate with it? :)
[22:27] <m1x10> one side of the 'uart device' is wired to the digital pin
[22:27] <m1x10> and the other side to usb
[22:27] <m1x10> :p
[22:28] <fsphil> easier to fix newsoftserial to work with the new frequency :)
[22:28] <m1x10> mhh
[22:28] <fsphil> or write your own version
[22:28] <fsphil> but that's not easy
[22:28] <m1x10> haha
[22:28] <m1x10> yeah
[22:29] <fsphil> atmel have some example code for it somewhere
[22:34] Nick change: DagoRed -> DR_food
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[22:39] <m1x10> I think I found the solution
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[22:41] <m1x10> digital io pin -> max232 buffer chip -> serial
[22:42] <fsphil> you still need a program to create the serial signal on the io pin
[22:42] <m1x10> yes -> NSS
[22:42] <m1x10> :p
[22:42] <m1x10> oh!
[22:42] <m1x10> it wont work on that freq
[22:42] <m1x10> lol
[22:43] <fsphil> eureka :)
[22:43] <m1x10> what did u found?
[22:44] <m1x10> what did u find?
[22:44] <fsphil> no, you finally realised the problem :)
[22:44] <m1x10> ah lola
[22:44] <m1x10> eureka! lol. In modern greek we say it: vreka
[22:45] <m1x10> So I need NSS to work with our freqs and a max232 chip.
[22:45] <m1x10> --> complexity
[22:46] <m1x10> <-- rejected
[22:46] <m1x10> oh
[22:46] <m1x10> look
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[22:46] <m1x10> U know that I have ordered that i2c/spi-to-uart chip. ok?
[22:46] <m1x10> I needed to add an extra uart. ok?
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:47] <natrium42> welcome to the machine, Lunar_Lander
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> how's life
[22:47] <m1x10> instead of using that breakout to talk to the GPS and add it in the main board
[22:47] <m1x10> i can just use it with the usb2ttl
[22:47] <m1x10> ?
[22:48] <m1x10> correcT?
[22:48] <m1x10> Hi moona_lander
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:49] <m1x10> Hi
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[22:50] <m1x10> discovering!
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[22:50] <m1x10> fsphil, someone!
[22:50] <m1x10> my new idea?
[22:50] <m1x10> I bought the i2c/spi-to-uart breakout. Can i just use it with the usb2ttl ?
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> tell us
[22:51] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander: its a big story
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:54] <fsphil> m1x10, maybe :) never used it
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Damn. There I was idly browsing 2.4GHz LDMOS FETs, and nxp pops up a 'do you want samples?' box.
[22:55] <jcoxon> the length people go to get a second uart
[22:55] Action: DanielRichman just bought a chip with two
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Realistically, I don't have the skills to make a solid state microwave. :)
[22:55] <DanielRichman> and the xmega for alien2 has 4 usarts :P
[22:57] <m1x10> Well
[22:57] <m1x10> fsphil
[22:57] <m1x10> I found it
[22:58] <m1x10> i2c-to-uart breakout from sparkfun. You write a message to i2c bus and it is outputted on the uart
[22:58] <m1x10> uart is wired to usb2ttl
[22:58] <m1x10> usb2ttl is wired to my pc
[22:58] <m1x10> Yes, its true. It should work!
[22:59] <m1x10> bye bye arduinos!
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h8oRGG22slsJ:gadgetizor.com/the-tablet-season-brings-a-new-ubuntu-powered-tablet/6304/+http://gadgetizor.com/the-tablet-season-brings-a-new-ubuntu-powered-tablet/6304/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> lmao the screenshot
[22:59] <fsphil> be easier to write your own serial port :p
[23:00] <m1x10> no man
[23:00] <m1x10> its just a breakout and a few wires
[23:00] <m1x10> the code to send a character to the i2c bus is 3 lines
[23:00] <m1x10> Wire.beginTransmission(I2C_ADDRESS);
[23:00] <m1x10> Wire.send(char);
[23:00] <m1x10> Wire.endTransmission();
[23:01] <fsphil> you should try both
[23:01] <m1x10> both?
[23:01] <m1x10> what other?
[23:01] <fsphil> look at the code used for doing rtty on the ntx2 -- it's basically 300 baud serial data
[23:01] <fsphil> all done on an IO pin
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah. :)
[23:06] <jcoxon> finally have got it setting the nav status
[23:08] <jcoxon> certainly wasn't being set last flight :-p
[23:08] <fsphil> was there a bug?
[23:09] <jcoxon> yeah - but i'm not sure what exactly
[23:09] <jcoxon> i now just send hte command to change the status and then check it
[23:10] <jcoxon> no if clauses
[23:11] <jcoxon> i think i'll just reset the nav5 status every 10 mins
[23:11] <jcoxon> not bother checking before hand
[23:12] <m1x10> fsphil
[23:12] <m1x10> link to that 5/3v3 stick?
[23:12] <m1x10> Im placing an order
[23:12] <m1x10> right now
[23:13] <fsphil> search for 5v 3.3v
[23:13] <m1x10> thx
[23:13] <fsphil> np :)
[23:14] <fsphil> jcoxon, when a ubx command is sent, does the reply packet come back between the normal gps strings?
[23:14] <jcoxon> i've turned off all the strings
[23:14] <jcoxon> poll the module instead
[23:15] <m1x10> fsphil yes
[23:16] <m1x10> fsphil: consider using just upx03 command to poll the commulative string
[23:17] <m1x10> rather than have to parse 2-3 different strings
[23:17] <fsphil> I only read GPGGA
[23:17] <m1x10> turn it off and poll the uxb03. It gives GPRMC info too.
[23:18] <m1x10> it has many info from all other strings gathered
[23:18] <m1x10> it just a big sentence :)
[23:18] <m1x10> btw: this power stick will free a big area on my current pcb!
[23:19] <m1x10> so I going to redesign again!
[23:22] <m1x10> Ok
[23:22] <m1x10> thats enough
[23:22] <m1x10> I got to go
[23:22] <m1x10> Cu all
[23:22] <fsphil> night!
[23:22] <m1x10> Asta la vista trons!
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[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> good night to everyone!
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 29 2010