highaltitude.log.20101220

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[00:03] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
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[00:25] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
[00:25] <fsphil> sorry, was afk for a sec
[00:26] <jcoxon> so in view.php N4XWC-HOME is there but doesn't appear on the map
[00:26] <jcoxon> any idea?
[00:27] <fsphil> there's a ' symbol right near the end in his antenna description
[00:27] <fsphil> that could cause trouble if not escaped properly
[00:28] <jcoxon> yeah i just asked him to take it out
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[00:31] <fsphil> M0DTS_Rob, where are you hearing the signals from the states?
[00:33] <jonsowman> have you solved N4XWC not appearing on the tracker?
[00:33] <jcoxon> yup
[00:33] <fsphil> there he is
[00:33] <jcoxon> it was the '
[00:33] <jonsowman> cool
[00:34] <fsphil> the tracker must not be escaping it properly somewhere
[00:34] <natrium_> hope no ones antenna is '; DROP table trackers;--
[00:35] <jonsowman> did we decide fldigi is calling listen.php or listen.test.php?
[00:35] <jcoxon> listen.php
[00:36] <jcoxon> line 1360 of fl_digi.cxx
[00:36] <jonsowman> alright
[00:37] <Dave-M0MYA> jonsowman, sorry to interrupt, just thought I'd let you know that librtty seems to be working well - I'm far to in need of sleep to try it out properly, but it is decoding fine CRC16 and all. I'll have a proper next chance I get
[00:37] <jonsowman> excellent, that's good to hear
[00:37] <jonsowman> appreciate the feedback Dave-M0MYA :)
[00:37] <jonsowman> thank you
[00:37] <Dave-M0MYA> not at all - thank you. more details as I discover them! nn
[00:38] <jonsowman> see you :)
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[00:40] <M0DTS_Rob> fsphil: was hearing el salvador on 7.164 ish with CT1EOD
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[00:43] <fsphil> trying globaltuners, receiver in ohio
[00:46] <jonsowman> :q
[00:46] <jonsowman> oh damn it
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[00:55] <fsphil> 7.077 is eerily silent -- it's like 70cm
[00:55] <jcoxon> right in 5mins i'm going to bed
[00:55] <Darkside> hmm i want to see wb8elk's circuit designs :)
[00:55] <jcoxon> natrium_, if the telem string is different will you be able to fix the xml?
[00:55] <natrium_> yes
[00:56] <Darkside> since i did a similar Hf transmitter thingo a while back
[00:56] <jcoxon> got access to robertharrison.org?
[00:56] <natrium_> yes, i had the login somewhere
[00:56] <natrium_> could you pm it to me just to be safe?
[00:58] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[01:01] <jcoxon> night
[01:02] <natrium_> nite jcoxon
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[01:05] <juxta> hi all
[01:05] <juxta> was timbobel's payload recovered?
[01:05] <jonsowman> havent heard from him at all
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[01:05] <juxta> oh :(
[01:05] <natrium_> hi juxta
[01:05] <fsphil> wb8elk is on the map
[01:05] <juxta> heya natrium_
[01:06] <Dan-K2VOL> P
[01:07] <fsphil> and I've got some voice chatter on 7.077
[01:12] <jonsowman> fsphil: apostrophe bug fixed in listen.php
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[01:13] <fsphil> that was quick
[01:14] <jonsowman> was just that the input data wasn't escaped
[01:14] <jonsowman> so the apostrophe was causing a mysql syntax error
[01:14] <natrium_> eek
[01:15] <jonsowman> natrium_: you're telling me
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> Little Bobby drop tables.
[01:16] <natrium_> :)
[01:16] <jonsowman> indeed
[01:16] <fsphil> haha
[01:17] <jonsowman> I'm not saying it's now completely secured against sql injection
[01:17] <jonsowman> but that bug is fixed
[01:17] <jonsowman> and I don't want to muck around with it too much whilst it's in use
[01:23] <jonsowman> right, I'm off
[01:23] <jonsowman> night guys
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> night!
[01:24] <fsphil> night
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[01:57] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill still working?
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[02:01] <natrium_> about to launch
[02:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Great
[02:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Just got home!
[02:02] <natrium_> :)
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[02:02] <natrium_> there's always something unexpected
[02:11] <natrium_> $$WB8ELK,7,02:09:00,3424.52,-08648.79,352,09,5.74,1*50
[02:27] <Dan-K2VOL> Looks really about to launch
[02:27] <natrium_> :)
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[02:57] <juxta> hmm, prediction on the tracker doesn't look too favorable
[03:00] <Darkside> ooh dear
[03:00] <Darkside> better hire a boat asap
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[03:23] Action: DagoRed stretches
[03:23] <DagoRed> Well this sucks... I won't be around the lab to do balloons all of christmas break :(
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[03:47] <WD5EAE> How can I tell if my received telem is getting uploaded? Is there any way to check?
[03:47] <WD5EAE> I am running the HAB version and I am online
[03:48] <juxta> your data should show up here WD5EAE:
[03:48] <juxta> http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[03:49] <WD5EAE> cool. thank you
[03:49] <juxta> no probs
[03:51] <WD5EAE> ok the ZZ look like pings. It looks like I am pinging but not sending valid decodes... are those the green decodes?
[03:53] <WD5EAE> I restarted the app and it's working now. magic microsoft dust.
[03:54] <juxta> hehe
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[04:03] <ke4pjw> ping
[04:04] <natrium_> pong
[04:04] <ke4pjw> :)
[04:07] <StrayVoltage> Wow. That balloon is really haulin'.
[04:08] <ke4pjw> Looks like about 5 mph right now, or am I reading it wrong?
[04:10] <StrayVoltage> I meant in the horizontal plane. ;)
[04:19] <ke4pjw> I was reading it wrong ;) Does not look like the speed telemetry is displayed on the tracking page.
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[04:28] <StrayVoltage> 240-ish km/h ain't bad.
[04:29] <StrayVoltage> 4 km per minute.
[04:33] <ke4pjw> Yup, that's traveling pretty darn fast.
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[05:31] <Darkside> juxta: about?
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[07:02] <Upu> long drive to pick that balloon up
[07:03] <jcoxon> morning
[07:04] <Upu> morning
[07:04] <Upu> right off to work o7
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[07:05] <natrium_> hi jcoxon
[07:05] <jcoxon> natrium_, looks like it worked
[07:05] <jcoxon> was the xml correct then?
[07:06] <natrium_> yep
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[07:10] <jcoxon> okay next flight - no batc chat room
[07:10] <jcoxon> it is the worst
[07:12] <jcoxon> natrium_, you picking it up from home?
[07:12] <natrium_> nah, globaltuners
[07:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:12] <jcoxon> which radio?
[07:12] <natrium_> ohio
[07:12] <natrium_> cleveland
[07:13] <jcoxon> i can get i through bills audio
[07:13] <natrium_> lol
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[07:17] <sgisgi> Morning all, any news regarding hohoho-3?
[07:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[07:20] <jcoxon> sgisgi, i haven't heard anything
[07:20] <Lunar_Lander> how was Bill's ascent?
[07:21] <jcoxon> just landed
[07:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[07:22] <natrium_> on an army base :S
[07:25] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[07:25] <Lunar_Lander> are they gonna interrogate him and those things?
[07:28] <natrium_> hopefully not
[07:28] <natrium_> g'nite
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[07:28] <Lunar_Lander> night
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[10:13] <fsphil> anyone not in the states receive anything from wb8elk's launch last night?
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[10:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi again
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[11:41] <eroomde> elevenses - best invention ever
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[11:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=5884
[11:48] <Laurenceb> ^ nice shots
[11:51] <GW8RAK> There's snow on the beach on Anglesey and -2 http://www.camserv.co.uk/rhos/
[11:52] <Laurenceb> -10 here
[11:53] <GW8RAK> It was a particularly cold night last night and it seems to be continuing all day.
[11:54] <eroomde> it's just started snowing here
[11:54] <eroomde> actual snow
[11:54] <eroomde> it was weird snow this morning
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[11:55] <GW8RAK> That is one thing we don't have here. An inch or two, but not enough to cause problems.
[11:56] <fsphil> -18c last night, not too far from here
[11:56] <fsphil> a new record I think
[12:03] <fsphil> someone needs to reboot the gulf stream
[12:06] <jonsowman> lol
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[12:12] <fsphil> so who is launching next?
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[12:40] <jonsowman> fsphil: trying to find a launch window for Apex
[12:40] <jonsowman> difficult with the current weather and everyone is pretty busy around Christmas
[12:41] <fsphil> know the feeling
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[12:41] <fsphil> good luck -- hopefully things will be a bit warmer and dryer by then
[12:42] <jonsowman> hope so
[12:42] <jonsowman> maybe in the first week of the new year
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[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman what is the objective of Apex?
[12:43] <fsphil> if the caa are as quick as last time, I'll be the week after that
[12:44] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: testing 50/300 baud rate transmissions to examine reception at altitude, and to measure ionising radiation through the atmosphere
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[12:44] <jonsowman> as well as to get pretty pictures of course :)
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[12:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[12:44] <fsphil> gotta have the pics
[12:44] <Lunar_Lander> so you will have a geiger counter?
[12:45] <jonsowman> yep, two Geiger Muller tubes
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[12:45] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: http://www.hexoc.com/pages/apex/apex-ii.php
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[12:45] <jonsowman> have a look at the IRD section
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[12:46] <jonsowman> these are the tubes
[12:46] <jonsowman> http://balloon.hexoc.com/gallery/apex-ii/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0778
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> by the way
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> when I go on "Apex I" and "Project Brief" I only get a site with a link back to the HOME page
[12:47] <jonsowman> oh sorry, that info is now on the main Apex I page
[12:47] <jonsowman> http://www.hexoc.com/pages/apex/apex-i.php
[12:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah, thanks :)
[12:48] <Lunar_Lander> 03/02/09 - Sponsorship from Virgin Galactic!
[12:48] <Lunar_Lander> COOL!
[12:50] <jonsowman> hehe yes
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[12:51] <jonsowman> Apex II was sponsored by the Institute of Physics in the UK and Battery Force too
[12:51] <Laurenceb> really wow
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[12:56] <Lunar_Lander> hey check that out: http://www.ifoundyourcamera.net/2010/12/wellington-new-zealand-2/
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[13:06] <Upu> Timobel checked in yet ?
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander> no
[13:08] <fsphil> very odd
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[13:09] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2010/12/19/hackaday-unleashes-a-troll-sniffing-rat/
[13:09] <Laurenceb> genius
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[13:18] <Lunar_Lander> btw jonsowman what do you think about OFCOM?
[13:21] <jonsowman> what about them?
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[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they issued that damn thing about no amateur radio in the air above the UK
[13:24] <russss> isn't that in the law?
[13:24] <jonsowman> it's a condition of the amateur radio licenses in the UK
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> that law is not good
[13:27] <jonsowman> it is rather annoying
[13:27] <jonsowman> but there's not a lot we can do about it
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[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> the only thing would be to gather enough people for demonstrations
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> but the other people in the street would probably thing: "WTF?"
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> *think
[13:29] <Randomskk> I don't think anyone cares enough to write up and put through new legislation
[13:29] <Randomskk> lawmaking is hard
[13:30] <Randomskk> construct a device that Thinks Of The Children using airborne HAM radio, on the other hand...
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander> or we move all UK HAB ops to NL
[13:30] <Randomskk> there are some logistical issues with that
[13:31] <fsphil> If you're paying ...
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> btw does that law exist in Ireland as well?
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[13:33] <fsphil> not sure, probably not
[13:35] <Laurenceb> ready the pedohabs
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> LOL what?
[13:36] <Laurenceb> alternatively: superpressure hovering balloon with gatling gun and pedophile face recognition
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[13:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:36] <Laurenceb> tether one at all school gates
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> was that TV show about hunting pedophiles in the english press? the one which was run by the wife of our minister of defence
[13:37] <Laurenceb> brasseye?
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> here in germany it was called "Tatort Internet"
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> and it quickly was heavily criticized because of the way it was run
[13:38] <Laurenceb> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9031532194656768989#
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> LOL the MST3K part
[13:51] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb ?
[13:52] <Laurenceb> dont think so
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> I'm coming up to the commercials and that one guy is standing there talking to that group about that implant for pedophiles
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> are these people a real anti-pedophile group?
[13:54] <sgisgi> heh sounds like one bonus show
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[13:58] <eroomde> 2^6 users again
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[13:58] <Randomskk> wasn't all that long ago we were 2^5
[13:58] <Randomskk> wonder how long it'l be until 2^7.
[13:58] <Randomskk> and now many of those new users will ever talk >.>
[13:59] <eroomde> Also, this occured to me today when I was making some sourdough pizza bases
[13:59] <eroomde> if you take the radius 'z', and the height 'a', then the volumte of a pizza is pizza
[13:59] <jonsowman> sounds delicious
[13:59] <jonsowman> haha yes, seen that before
[14:00] <eroomde> one day i'll think of something no one else has before
[14:00] <jonsowman> :D
[14:00] <eroomde> I guess that's the day I get my PhD
[14:00] <Randomskk> :P
[14:01] <Lunar_Lander> you could also do and put pasta on the pizza
[14:01] <eroomde> death by carbohydrate
[14:01] <jonsowman> lol
[14:01] <eroomde> my sourdough starter is super alive at the moment
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[14:01] <eroomde> tripled in volume in 5 hours when i fed it today
[14:02] <GW8RAK> Lunar_Lander, When in Italy, we saw a chip pizza!
[14:03] <Lunar_Lander> potatoes on pizza?
[14:04] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde what about putting some of it on a HAB?
[14:04] <GW8RAK> Yes.
[14:04] <eroomde> i wonder if cosmis rayes might make it even more alive
[14:04] <Randomskk> you might get mutated bread
[14:05] <Randomskk> or SuperBread
[14:05] <Randomskk> possibly just cancerbread, :(
[14:05] <jonsowman> :o
[14:05] <GW8RAK> Has anyone throught about a simple spark gap detector on a balloon?
[14:05] <eroomde> fantastic four-cachia
[14:05] <GW8RAK> Two plates with a potential across them which sparks when ionising particles pass through the gap.
[14:06] <Randomskk> ionising radiation sensors have been flown (by which I mean geiger-muller tubes)
[14:06] Action: Randomskk points at jonsowman
[14:06] <Lunar_Lander> like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAIKp0cu7UM
[14:06] <GW8RAK> I suppose that will do the same thing
[14:06] <GW8RAK> I just liked the homebrew nature of two plates
[14:08] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK like in the video?
[14:08] <GW8RAK> Which one?
[14:08] <Lunar_Lander> like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAIKp0cu7UM
[14:09] <eroomde> i'll do a cusf pizza party jonsowman and Randomskk
[14:09] <jonsowman> that sounds great
[14:10] <eroomde> iain and I are building a wood fired pizza oven
[14:10] <jonsowman> :D
[14:10] <eroomde> and i'm working on the perfect sourdough pizza dough
[14:10] <jonsowman> awesome
[14:10] <Randomskk> that sounds pretty epic
[14:10] <eroomde> just need to find a good chianti to match and we've a perfect evening
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[14:11] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about this experiment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyqIjSnFlmk&feature=related ?
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[14:25] <GW8RAK> The spark chamber is very much what I was thinking of. We used to have a cloud chamber like that one at school.
[14:25] <GW8RAK> I doubt the radiation sources we had would be allowed today.
[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> true
[14:26] <GW8RAK> The challeng would be to detect the very fast current pulses as particles pass through
[14:28] <GW8RAK> Currently feeling poor as just spent a lot of money :(
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[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> on what?
[14:30] MI6VIM (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[14:30] <GW8RAK> Specialist fabric for work. £7K
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:30] <fsphil> eek
[14:31] <GW8RAK> And it may not be here in time before I need it for a film company job.
[14:31] <GW8RAK> It all depends on Christmas.
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw that is a good keyword!
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYjFgktOdxw
[14:32] <GW8RAK> Which keyword?
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> christmas
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[14:35] Nick change: MI6VIM -> fsphil
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[14:36] <GW8RAK> I've just realised that MI6VIM and fsphil are one and the same
[14:36] <fsphil> lol
[14:36] <fsphil> callsigns always confuse me
[14:36] <GW8RAK> Hadn't make the link before
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> how was the viceo?
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> video
[14:37] <GW8RAK> Despite my name on here, I'm not one who thinks in callsigns.
[14:37] <eroomde> yeah it seems like, in the same way london cabbies have enlarged spacial awareness parts of their brain, experienced hams have larger than averga ability to remember callsigns
[14:37] <eroomde> but it's lost on me
[14:38] <eroomde> on the radio i often say something like 'M0TEK to G8P.. G7P... er ... G8... Graham'
[14:38] <GW8RAK> How did you know my name was Graham?
[14:38] <eroomde> (cos all hams are called graham)
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[14:39] <GW8RAK> The smelly ones aren't
[14:39] <GW8RAK> They are Derek's or something
[14:39] <eroomde> perhaps true
[14:39] <eroomde> but on GB3PY every second person is called Graham
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[14:40] <GW8RAK> But surely, there is only one "second" person?
[14:40] <Lunar_Lander> once we had an exchange pupil in class
[14:40] <Lunar_Lander> his name was Duncan
[14:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:40] <eroomde> GW8RAK: true, yes, I see your point
[14:41] <fsphil> Duncan MacLeod?
[14:41] <eroomde> we'll assume interactions are statistically independant
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> no I don't know what his last name was?
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> (without the ?)
[14:41] <fsphil> (bad highlander reference, ignore me)
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:43] <GW8RAK> Just got it fsphil, highlander
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htnG3L7VRLk&feature=related
[14:44] <GW8RAK> I think they were bored at work that day at the crusher
[14:44] <fsphil> I used to like that show, but it was never on at the same time each week -- or even the same day
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> no actually that crusher is privately owned and he does that stuff for 2 years noe
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> now
[14:46] <fsphil> could be useful if you're ever chased by a terminator
[14:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgXHaNbui6g&feature=related
[14:58] <fsphil> "wavelength in water is but a fraction of that in space" ... "At 1.8 MHz, wavelength is 10.1 metres compared to 167 metres in space" neat
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> underwater antennas work surprisingly wel
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> in some cases
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> It's just you need a special matched one
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[15:08] <fsphil> using the water itself as the antenna is also possible
[15:08] <fsphil> though a small vertical would probably be a lot handier
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> OK going to the supermarket
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> cu later
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[15:52] <Laurenceb> http://books.google.com/books?id=0b0LymLjLD0C&lpg=PA606&ots=Pq2iJalLc5&dq=drakelow%20supercritical%20water&pg=PA604#v=onepage&q=drakelow%20supercritical%20water&f=false
[15:52] <Laurenceb> ^interesting
[15:53] <Laurenceb> seems to be at a higher level than the present new scientist
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> depressing
[15:54] <Laurenceb> i never realised itd actually been done way back then
[15:54] Action: SpeedEvil awaits with joy an appointment at which I need to prove I'm not fit for work.
[15:54] <Laurenceb> went on a tour round drakelow c with my dad in ~1990
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - they did awesome things
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> even in relatively early power stations.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> I went on a tour round: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methil_power_station
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Even such a teeny one is awesome
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: ~1960s issues of journals like 'vacuum' can be awesome
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: There is considerable 'here is how to build a sublimation pump' - and much less - 'Ooooh - look how shiny my new pumpatron 4000 is!'
[16:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[16:15] <fsphil> those pumpatron 4000s are pretty cool though
[16:16] <fsphil> one thing I noticed in those old magazines is how much they wanted you to smoke
[16:16] <fsphil> esp. the american ones
[16:17] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:18] <fsphil> maybe that's why they died out, their readership did too
[16:23] <fsphil> they did have some funny ideas about the future though
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[16:56] <GW8RAK> Has anyone noticed that it got darker 1 minute later this evening than on Sunday? The lighter evenings are on their way.
[16:57] <GW8RAK> And tomorrow, we actually have 7s more dayligth than today.
[16:57] <GW8RAK> daylight
[16:58] <The-Compiler> it's not like I'd care :o
[16:58] <russss> ah yes, the day is still shorter though
[16:59] <russss> damn orbits
[16:59] <GW8RAK> The earliest night comes before the latest dawn.
[16:59] <Randomskk> not very long at all until the solstice though
[17:00] <fsphil> should wake up to a nice total eclipse tomorrow morning if your far north enough
[17:00] <fsphil> lunar eclipse that is
[17:00] <russss> and if it's not cloudy
[17:00] <russss> yeah, the solstice is tomorrow
[17:01] <GW8RAK> The setting moon this morning was incredibly bright.
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> I like snow.
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> It's pretty.
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> But I could really do with a couple of weeks of 25C here.
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[17:02] <russss> tomorrow is also the 42nd anniversary of the first time man left earth's orbit</spacegeek>
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[17:02] <russss> sadly we don't quite have apollo8.spacelog.org done for the event.
[17:03] <fsphil> more sadly is how long it's been since the last men left earths orbit
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> yep.
[17:05] <russss> Apollo 17 returned to earth 38 years yesterday
[17:05] Action: SpeedEvil wants his flying car!
[17:05] <GW8RAK> That makes me feel old
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Though actually - I'd settle for the 30K or so it'd take me to make my hoverboard.
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[17:48] <jcoxon> Evening
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> evening
[17:49] <jcoxon> Any news on yesterdays launches?
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[18:36] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurence_
[18:36] <Laurence_> hi
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[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> hi james
[18:46] <jcoxon> hey Lunar_Lander
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> hope you had a nice day
[18:46] <jcoxon> not to bad, busy
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea same here
[18:47] <jcoxon> just setup a second monitor onto my linux laptop, works really well
[18:47] <jcoxon> so have irc + dl-fldigi on one screen and then firefox on the other
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I am doing: http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5086/picture92x.jpg
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[18:50] <jcoxon> yay my payload has a lock
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> and how's my jumpsuit?
[18:53] <jcoxon> very nice
[18:53] <jcoxon> bbiab
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> damn still nothing from Holland
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[19:42] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander, jumpsuit?
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5086/picture92x.jpg
[19:48] <natrium42> hawt
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> LOL I just opened a new mail
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> and I almost wrote "Christmas Massage" instead of Message
[19:50] <natrium42> hawt
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> X-Mas Massage would be cool
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> does UKHAS have any girls above the age of consent?
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:51] <natrium42> hmm, there is not enough women in ballooning
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> we should make a HAB flight "Dedicated to the women"
[19:51] <Laurence_> someone coul dhave an operation
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> with a pink payload box to remind people of breast cancer
[19:51] <natrium42> 20 miles high?
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> naah
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> pink balloon, with a painted nipple
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:52] <natrium42> lol
[19:53] <natrium42> maybe a dual balloon launch then
[19:53] <natrium42> eroomde has experience in dual launches
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> btw what do you think about that amateur bathyscape I suggested yesterday?
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> ?
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday someone talked about an ocean buoy
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> and then I remembered that a bathyscape is nothing else than an underwater balloon
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> which uses petrol as a buyoant and iron shot as ballast
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> and I suggested making a very small one
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Naah. Very big one.
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD like the Trieste?
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Fill in france, tow on a small boat to england.
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Profit!
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
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[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> but what do you think?
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Why?
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> it should be possible to make an unmanned submerged probe
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> because it can be done
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> I'd want to try robotuna
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> what is that?
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> It's a robot tuna
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> Does what it says on the tin. (with sunflower oil)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> lol that video
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> burglars run out of the shop into the car
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> police cars screech to a stop
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> cops jump out and run into the shop
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> car with burglas runs off
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[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> how can we call the amateur bathyscape?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> DAB?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> Deep Altitude Amateur balloon?
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[20:38] <Randomskk> I think DAB might be taken
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the brewery
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Deep Underwater Chemical Knowledgefinder
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> appropiate abbreviation
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks SpeedEvil
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Nautical Electronic Marine Observatory
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> also a good idea
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> we should make a vote
[20:58] <jcoxon> oh noes - they've sold out of gpsbee
[21:06] <Laurence_> NACO-SUB
[21:06] <Laurence_> Nautical cocaine smuggling bathyscale
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[21:06] <Randomskk> you could so easily use hab to smuggle drugs
[21:07] <Randomskk> load up a kilo of cocaine, land it somewhere in europe
[21:07] <Randomskk> gps tracking, go recover
[21:07] <Laurence_> ????
[21:07] <Laurence_> profit
[21:07] <Randomskk> wanna get to america? that's basically what the trans atlantic attempts are for
[21:08] <Laurence_> bah
[21:08] <Laurence_> just get yourself a boat and pinch some RTGs
[21:09] <Laurence_> theres plenty od unsecured automatic lighthouses in the russian arctic
[21:09] <Laurence_> but i should probably shut up, i hear black helicopters
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> MI5?
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[21:12] <bomber_> hello anyone on who knows about GFS
[21:13] <Laurence_> iirc these idiots even published a kml file - http://www.bellona.org/
[21:13] <Randomskk> bomber_: a little
[21:13] <bomber_> sorry did I interupt?
[21:13] <Randomskk> bomber_: go ahead
[21:14] <Randomskk> it's irc, loads of conversations can go on at once
[21:14] <bomber_> ok just checking :)
[21:14] <bomber_> ok Q Query
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> Laurence_ of where the lighthouses are?
[21:15] <Laurence_> yes
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:15] <bomber_> I have a excel sheet predictor I am creating for a High Altitude Glider and would like to use the NOAA system
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> the russians have also weather stations driven by RTG
[21:16] <bomber_> but I am struggling understand whats what
[21:16] <Randomskk> trying to do GFS in excel is probably doomed to failure
[21:16] <Randomskk> I don't think that would be very easy at all
[21:16] <bomber_> lol
[21:17] <bomber_> surely it easier than programming it in C or Python etc
[21:17] <bomber_> all I want to extract is the wind speed at the 64 mb heights over the launch site I ve done the rest
[21:17] <Randomskk> in my experience programming in python is a lot easier than excel
[21:17] <Randomskk> but essentially I don't think excel is really very suited or provides sufficient tools
[21:18] <Randomskk> for a start I don't think it can request data from the web
[21:18] <bomber_> errr well maybe if you use it a lot
[21:18] <Randomskk> maybe you just use excel a lot, but seriously
[21:18] <Randomskk> python is perhaps the most straightforward langauge ever :P
[21:18] <bomber_> I use vb to pull it in and then output to kml
[21:18] <Randomskk> oh, I guess the visual basic might be able to do it
[21:19] <Randomskk> essentially the gfs stuff is a case of you hit their server with a specific URL that tells it what slice of data you want
[21:19] <bomber_> I am used to C but this is about a quick path an excels pretty good if you know how it works :)
[21:19] <Randomskk> take your word for it
[21:20] <bomber_> : ), now yeah I get that, but what I don't get is how you know which bit of data relates to your long lat
[21:21] <bomber_> i see lots of funny entitled directories and have no idea what the relate too
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[21:22] <Randomskk> http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/
[21:22] <Randomskk> contains dated subfolders
[21:23] <Randomskk> http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20101220 is today
[21:23] <Randomskk> they release four datasets a day, timed 0000, 0600, 1200 and 1800.
[21:23] <Randomskk> the actual release times are about 0400, 1000, 1600 etc
[21:23] <Randomskk> (so about four hours after the time)
[21:24] <Randomskk> http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20101220/gfs_12z.info is the current latest
[21:24] <bomber_> hmmm ok with you so far
[21:24] <Randomskk> it contains data from 1200 hours today until 1200 hours on the 28th december
[21:24] <Randomskk> that URL gives all the data this dataset contains
[21:24] <Randomskk> by way of variable names
[21:24] <Randomskk> there are a lot of them
[21:24] <Randomskk> for each you are then given information on what it is indexed by
[21:25] <bomber_> now your loosing me
[21:26] <Randomskk> wind speed is available in the ugrdprs and vgrdprs variables
[21:26] <Randomskk> so if you search for "ugrdprs" on that page, and get to the part that gives more data on it
[21:26] <Randomskk> you'll notice it is indexed by time, lev, lat and lon
[21:26] <Randomskk> which means that it is a four dimensional field, basically. you tell it what range of times, levels, latitudes and longitudes you want to know the u component of the wind vector
[21:27] <Randomskk> and it'l return that as a four dimensional data set.
[21:27] <Randomskk> to complicate matters, lev is a pressure level and not an altitude
[21:27] <Randomskk> there's a further variable, hgtprs, which maps the pressure levels to altitudes
[21:28] <Randomskk> also indexed by time, latitude and longitude, it gives the altitude for each level.
[21:28] <bomber_> errr just having a look bear with me
[21:29] <Randomskk> so, you need to ask their server for three four-dimensional datasets, then correlate the pressure levels with altitudes to determine, for each latitude and longitude point in time, what pressure level you want for a given altitude
[21:29] <Randomskk> then you can look that pressure level up for that point in time and space to get the u and v components of the wind velocity
[21:29] <Randomskk> that's the theory - in practise you do this with specific URLs that will return various bits of data
[21:29] <bomber_> ok I see thats just the syntax ob that page?
[21:30] <Randomskk> yea
[21:30] <Randomskk> so for instance to get the hgtprs data you might do a request like this
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[21:33] <Randomskk> http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20101220/gfs_06z.dods?hgtprs[0:1:0][0:1:25][0:1:180][0:1:359]
[21:34] <Randomskk> the result that you get back has a bit of human readable text to explain what is in the file, followed by a large binary chunk of actual data
[21:34] <Randomskk> which you will have to parse into a four dimensional data structure
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZlV2tUCMQ
[21:35] <bomber_> crumbs
[21:36] <bomber_> I tried finding the docs for this but the links seem to be wrong on the website
[21:36] <Randomskk> the query syntax in that URL is roughly, start, slice size, stop for each variable in turn: time, level, lat, lon
[21:36] <Randomskk> so in that case, the first time slice in the dataset, covering levels 0 to 25 (all of them), latitudes 0 to 180 (all of them) and longitudes 0 to 359 (also all of them)
[21:37] <Randomskk> given as there are 64 time slices, that represents 1/64 of all the data for that variable in this database
[21:37] <Randomskk> dataset*
[21:37] <Randomskk> (and is 6.4MB)
[21:38] <bomber_> are the latitude and longitude different then? are they split into 0 - 180 around the globe
[21:38] <Randomskk> well once you go from south to north pole, increasing beyond 180 would be going back on yourself
[21:39] <Randomskk> there are only 180 different degrees of latitude
[21:39] <Randomskk> longitude can go the whole way around the planet, hence 360 degrees of them
[21:39] <Randomskk> the DODS data doesn't use negative numbers, so starts at 0 and gets better rather than going negative on the other side
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[21:40] <bomber_> ok this is quite a lot for my grey cells to take, but its very interesting
[21:41] <Randomskk> I still think you will have a hell of a time trying to program it in excel
[21:41] <Randomskk> I'm not even entirely sure if VB provides the utilities to load the binary data into a data structure
[21:41] <Randomskk> and excel is kind of 2d
[21:41] <Randomskk> I mean I guess you could use looooads of sheets for a third dimension
[21:41] <Randomskk> but you're kind of stuffed by four
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZlV2tUCMQ
[21:41] <Randomskk> presumably you could actually use VB arrays or something but again, meh
[21:42] <bomber_> lol now I see what your getting at
[21:42] <Randomskk> python makes this beautiful:
[21:42] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/blob/master/predict.py
[21:43] <Randomskk> well.
[21:43] <Randomskk> that code is a mess, but even so
[21:43] <Randomskk> it's about 50 lines to deal with working out what data we want, downloading it from the server, parsing it up then using it
[21:44] <bomber_> I spoke with jon last week briefly, its really good but I didn't want to have to learn Python as well : ) but its complex
[21:44] <bomber_> actually its amazing code
[21:44] <Randomskk> the parts of that I hacked on are pretty shoddy
[21:44] <Randomskk> and to be honest the underlying parts are not great either
[21:44] <Randomskk> but I guess it does work
[21:44] <Randomskk> jon's work on the predictor is pretty great, and the predictor itself
[21:44] <Randomskk> well, it works
[21:44] <bomber_> sure does
[21:44] <Randomskk> don't try looking at the C.
[21:45] <Randomskk> at any rate, yea, it's basically a quite hard thing to do
[21:45] <Randomskk> and VB/excel is perhaps not the best tool for doing it in
[21:45] <Randomskk> but eh, maybe it can do it. it's just more work for you, basically
[21:45] <bomber_> Ok point takne, matey, how acurate is the predictor then in your experience?
[21:46] <Randomskk> you get a good gist of what direction it will go
[21:46] <bomber_> maybe for now I should use that for the balloon release
[21:46] <Randomskk> if you run it just at release it tends to be within a mile or two by touchdown
[21:46] <Randomskk> we could really do with some hard data on how good the predictor is. hopefully the new tracker will help with that.
[21:47] <Randomskk> but yea, its accuracy is quite strongly dependent on how good the ascent rate, descent rate you give it are
[21:47] <Randomskk> if you say it'l go up at 2m/s then accidentally overfill to 3m/s, it will significantly be wrong
[21:47] <Randomskk> if you're pretty much on the mark you can get some excellent results
[21:48] <bomber_> I asked the CAA and they asked the MET and they really didn't seem to have any live data on wind speed and direction over the UK how does the NOAA system work it out is from satalite data?
[21:50] <bomber_> I am a bit nervous as I have not launch the bird yet and there are so many unknowns so I am trying to utilise the naff waether to good effect
[21:50] <Randomskk> they work it out using massive supercomputers and very clever computer models combined with a lot of varied data input, including their own balloons whose positions are logged, presumably satellite imagery, and other sources
[21:51] <bomber_> amazing stuff, I am impressed...
[21:52] <bomber_> have you done a few launches yourself then?
[21:53] <Randomskk> I've been kind of involved in bits and pieces
[21:54] <Randomskk> I guess technically hardware I did has flown a few times too
[21:54] <Randomskk> though I'm still not sure I count that >.>
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[21:57] <bomber_> well I very much appreciatte the info, I am going to do some more digging on the docs but for now I'll use the predictor, its kind of easier, I am not being lazy its just I want to launch the bird ASAP its took long enough to get the system together as it is
[21:57] <Randomskk> absolutely, that is what the predictor is for
[21:59] <bomber_> thanks mate, I'll keep logging in, I am learning a lot : )
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> I just found that video about a woman who called 911 at McDonald's because they had no chicken nuggets
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxHmyxsfZE&feature=related
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[22:59] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA&feature=player_embedded#!
[22:59] <Upu> want
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[23:11] <fsphil> me first!!
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[23:27] <timbobel> hi guys
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello timbobel
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> you were asked for several times during the day
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[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> I just read the blog
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> 125 € is surely a good reward
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> to motivate peeps to look for it
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[23:55] <timbobel> yeah i have not spent a few days on this project with 0 output =)
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> what did happen after connection was lost?
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> did you drive after it into the night?
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> I mean when you lost connection to the chat
[23:56] <timbobel> we drove back actually
[23:56] <timbobel> didnt receive any sms sadly
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> so you took the day off basically?
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I would have done
[00:00] --- Tue Dec 21 2010