highaltitude.log.20101218

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[01:16] <iNatrium> \o
[01:16] <stilldavid> o/
[01:16] <Zuph> \o/
[01:17] <Zuph> |
[01:17] <stilldavid> CCCCOMBO BREAKER
[01:17] <Zuph> heh
[01:21] <Zuph> stilldavid: Enjoying your balloon?
[01:21] <stilldavid> just shipped today!
[01:21] <stilldavid> (I've been away a couple weeks)
[01:21] <Randomskk> hmm, I included some 1k resistors from farnell for this project, but can't remember why.
[01:21] <Zuph> heh
[01:21] <Randomskk> my hand sketched schematic that I'm now doing on the computer doesn't have any
[01:22] <Randomskk> so I'm.. not really sure why I got them
[01:22] <SpeedEvil> series resistors on inputs to protect from accidental HV?
[01:23] <Randomskk> maybe. no inputs really though
[01:23] <Randomskk> maybe they're for FET gates
[01:23] <Randomskk> is 1k a lot for a current limiting resistor on a MOSFET gate?
[01:24] <Randomskk> seems like a lot
[01:24] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/plight.pdf is the schematic otherwise
[01:24] <SpeedEvil> I wouldn't have thought so
[01:24] <Randomskk> uhm
[01:25] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/plight.pdf is the schematic otherwise
[01:25] <iNatrium> there better be a launch soon
[01:25] <iNatrium> my excuse is a lot of snow
[01:25] <SpeedEvil> Why FETs to LED?
[01:25] <iNatrium> what's YOURS?
[01:25] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: relatively high power LEDs, more than the AVR could supply at once
[01:25] <Randomskk> iNatrium: there's also loads of snow here :(
[01:25] <Randomskk> that and I'm not in cambridge
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[01:26] <iNatrium> pfft
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[01:26] <SpeedEvil> Ah - I see
[01:27] <Randomskk> they're fairly boring MOSFETs though. just really cheap
[01:27] <Randomskk> 300mA max, 60V, 1 ohm Rds(on), pretty standard
[01:27] <Randomskk> should turn on properly from 3v3
[01:29] <Randomskk> while the main LEDs have a Vf somewhat less than 3v3, so should be okay without resistors.
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[01:31] <SpeedEvil> Worst case current I think at 3.3V Vgs is ~100mA
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> If the Vgs(th) is at the maximum
[01:31] <Randomskk> the LED shouldn't pass that much with only 3v3 on it though
[01:32] <SpeedEvil> What sort of LED is it?
[01:32] <Randomskk> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1649017
[01:32] <Randomskk> 30mA, 3.6V
[01:32] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[01:33] <Randomskk> I always get a bit suspicious now, when using MOSFETs and BJTs as on/off devices
[01:34] <Randomskk> all that theory I got taught is somewhat hard to apply to the case where I'm not amplifying a small AC signal on top of a DC operating point
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XM-L
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at that one
[01:35] <Randomskk> those are somewhat brighter
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> Insane LED - 10W = 1000lm
[01:35] <Randomskk> seriously
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> in a 5*5mm package
[01:35] <Randomskk> that's crazy
[01:35] <Randomskk> well, 5*5mm plus much heatsink
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> yes
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/2N7002PW.pdf
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> For example
[01:36] <SpeedEvil> I tend to find the graphs more useful
[01:36] <Randomskk> but like, my torch runs off a single Cree XP-G
[01:36] <Randomskk> and is insanely bright
[01:36] <Randomskk> lenses help I suppose
[01:37] <Randomskk> so yea, I have the datasheet open
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> This is a good datasheet - it states typical Vgs(th) - and then explicitly states that fig 6 - say - is against that.
[01:37] <Randomskk> I generally like NXP datasheets
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> vgs(th) typ is 1.75 - but max is 2.4
[01:37] <Randomskk> what does Vgs(th) mean? threshold for what?
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> So you can redraw fig 6 by multiplying all the voltages on the gate by (2.4/1.7)
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> It's the voltage at which when you short the gate and drain and apply voltage across drain and source, the urrent hits 250uA
[01:39] <Randomskk> I see
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[01:39] <Randomskk> how does knowing that help charactise the MOSFET?
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> So in that case - the top '3.5V' line is really 4.94
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> It's a charachteristic figure useful for doing the equations.
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> One of the basics of the FET behaviour - like Hfe is for bipolar
[01:40] <Randomskk> I guess this is what I get for having a lecture course consisting of mostly all small signal analysis
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> So per-part - that top line on the graph of current vs voltage on the gate - the top gate line can be 3.5V - if the FET is typical - 2.2 - if it's min, and 5V if it's max
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> And then you add the temperature effects to this too, for added fun
[01:41] <Randomskk> aaah. okay.
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> Some sort of running light thing?
[01:42] <Randomskk> something like that, though I'll be PWMing them too.
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> ah
[01:42] <Randomskk> (hence connecting up to the OCnA/B outputs)
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> I see
[01:42] <Randomskk> for my purposes I essentially want to hit the MOSFETs completely on or off though
[01:43] <Randomskk> I guess the question is if 3v3 is sufficient, and my general understanding was that I want to get into the flat region of the Id vs Vds graph
[01:43] <Randomskk> my Vgs is going to be 3v3, but I'm not sure what Vds is in this case
[01:43] <SpeedEvil> IT's what's left over after the LED
[01:43] <Randomskk> figured as much, but
[01:44] <Randomskk> the LED is 3.6V Vf
[01:44] <Randomskk> I guess this is where I need to use the magic of load lines
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> You draw a graph of I/V on the LED - then you draw a graph of I/V on the transistor
[01:44] <Randomskk> for two non linear components, hurrah
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> and yes - that
[01:44] <Randomskk> well, I have those two graphs
[01:45] <Randomskk> I want to flip one of them on y, then overlap them and find the intercept, right?
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> The extra fun is that due to commets above - and the variation on the LED - they're two rather broad lines
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> but yes
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[01:47] <SpeedEvil> The nasty part is that there is no guarantee that two parts off the same reel will not have one at max, one at min.
[01:47] <SpeedEvil> Which leads to brightness variation
[01:49] <Randomskk> heh
[01:50] <Randomskk> scaling the graphs is loads of fun
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> Jesus - I diddn't realise the temp in here - I was lovely and cosy due tot he electric blanket
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> It's 2C in here.
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> Heater time. :)
[01:51] <stilldavid> seriously? inside?
[01:53] <Randomskk> so uhm
[01:53] <Randomskk> the load line is a bit messed up
[01:53] <Randomskk> by a bit I mean lots
[01:53] <Randomskk> I wonder if I mirrored it wrong
[01:54] <Randomskk> probably
[01:54] <Randomskk> 2C indoors? brr :|
[01:54] <Randomskk> when you start getting ice forming inside you know it's too cold
[01:55] <Randomskk> I should just be able to flip the LED graph about y, giving a kind of \ shape, then scale it so the divisions match and align it so when Vf on the LED is at 3.3, Vds on the MOSFET is at 0, right?
[01:56] <Randomskk> if I do that the intersection is right down in the very corner
[01:57] <Randomskk> at maybe 13mA, though it's hard to say for sure
[01:58] <Randomskk> I partially wonder if a BJT wouldn't be a better idea.
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> perhaps, yes. Putting the LED + on vbat may be another idea
[02:08] <Randomskk> true, though vbat is pretty unregulated
[02:09] <Randomskk> could use some of those fancy LED driver chips
[02:10] <Randomskk> constant current supplies
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> stilldavid: The house is very poorly insulated - if I heated it properly, it'd be a huge slice of my incomings at the moment. So I'm wearing lots of jumpers, at least until I get it insulated better
[02:11] <stilldavid> ah, fair enough. That's damn cold though!
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> And with enough blankets/electric blankets/jumpers - I'm not personally cold.
[02:12] <stilldavid> well, if you're asleep... I can't type hardly if my hands get cold though
[02:13] <SpeedEvil> I have a external keyboard that goes under the blankets, has an inbuilt trackpoint.
[02:14] <Randomskk> Farnell have some LED drivers for 28p that'l sustain a constant output current of 20mA (adjustable with resistors) but they have a 1.2V drop
[02:17] <SpeedEvil> One 'right' solution is one of the many chips with an integral boost.
[02:17] <Randomskk> trying to find one that's readily PWMd
[02:18] <SpeedEvil> Or go from 3.3->5V on your MCU supply, and a step up, not a step down
[02:20] <Randomskk> http://uk.farnell.com/fairchild-semiconductor/fan5617mpx/driver-led-smd-mlp-16-5617/dp/1495474 hmm
[02:20] <Randomskk> drives three LEDs at 30mA each, has a 5 bit current level control from my mcu to set brightnesses (rather than PWM)
[02:20] <Randomskk> takes 2.7 to 5.5V input
[02:20] <Randomskk> requires quite a good number of capacitors but that's not that big a deal
[02:21] <SpeedEvil> what's this for?
[02:21] <SpeedEvil> that is cheap
[02:21] <Randomskk> really cheap. also no longer stocked, just they have some left
[02:21] <SpeedEvil> Oh no!
[02:21] <SpeedEvil> It has :Bis (2-ethyl(hexyl)phthalate in
[02:22] <Randomskk> :o
[02:22] <Randomskk> that's awful!
[02:23] <Randomskk> I think 'running lights' is probably a good description, I want to pwm fade on/off and otherwise programmatically control six of those LEDs, though I plan to embed them in some resin
[02:23] <SpeedEvil> So as far as I see it - don't liquidise it and feed it to pregnant women.
[02:24] <Randomskk> sounds like a good thing to avoid
[02:24] <Randomskk> the chip seems kind of neat though
[02:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[02:25] <Randomskk> it has a few charge pumps to boost the input voltage up to whatever is needed by the LEDs, then regulates the output current to 30mA, controllable in 32 steps for three LEDs
[02:25] <Randomskk> it looks like I can't select current levels for each of the LEDs though
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> well - as long as you can PWM them externally
[02:26] <Randomskk> I mean, I'd need one of these chips per LED
[02:26] <Randomskk> rather than one per three LEDs
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> ah
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> Fairchild has some nice stuff. I was wanting http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/FA/FAN5902.html for a silly torch.
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> But nobody stocks it
[02:27] <Randomskk> oh neat.
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[08:51] <eroomde> morning all
[08:52] <eroomde> jcoxon: what's new?
[08:52] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
[08:52] <jcoxon> not much recovering from turkey last night
[08:53] <eroomde> :)
[08:53] <jcoxon> hows you?
[08:53] <eroomde> I am in cambridge, house hunting
[08:53] <jcoxon> oh right
[08:54] <jcoxon> good luck
[08:54] <jcoxon> to rent?
[08:54] <eroomde> yep
[08:54] <jcoxon> any success?
[08:55] <eroomde> have a shortlist, lots of viewings today
[08:55] <jcoxon> cool cool, where abouts are you looking? mill road?
[08:58] <eroomde> and chesterton
[08:59] <jcoxon> urgh, snow/rain
[08:59] <eroomde> clear here, thankfully
[08:59] <eroomde> I hope I can get home
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[09:00] <jcoxon> want to go an see tron legacy this week one evening?
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[09:01] Nick change: TraumaPrincess -> TraumaPony
[09:04] <eroomde> jcoxon: sure!
[09:05] <jcoxon> slightly restricted on which evenings i'm free
[09:05] <jcoxon> basically monday and weds
[09:11] <jcoxon> urgh - i need to go to the post office
[09:11] <jcoxon> hmmm will wait till weather improved
[09:11] <jcoxon> improves
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[09:12] <eroomde> can't do monday so let's pencil weds
[09:13] <jcoxon> okay
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[09:28] <Upu> morning
[09:28] <Upu> well it's still transmitting :)
[09:29] <eroomde> you've been doing a soak test?
[09:29] <Upu> yeah its been in the back garden over night
[09:29] <Upu> it's got an inch of snow on it :)
[09:30] <Upu> not a problem I hope to get on the actual flight
[09:30] <eroomde> good testig!
[09:31] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/snow.jpg
[09:31] <eroomde> I'm designing a payload for flying into storm clouds
[09:31] <eroomde> am going to have to do some serious hosepipe and golf ball testing on that
[09:31] <Upu> lol yeah
[09:31] <Upu> I think the temperature sensors read about 2' warm
[09:31] <eroomde> amazing colourscheme
[09:31] <Upu> not going to loose it am ? :)
[09:32] <Upu> I'll leave it going till 6pm then thats 24 hours
[09:32] <eroomde> what kind of batts?
[09:33] <Upu> Energiser Lithiums
[09:33] <Upu> are there any other types of batteries ? :)
[09:33] <eroomde> true dat
[09:33] <eroomde> just if they were LiPos it might be fun to let them discharge all the way and see if they explode
[09:34] <Upu> lol
[09:34] <Upu> no thanks :)
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[10:01] <jcoxon> we seriously need a launch
[10:01] <jcoxon> anything really
[10:07] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[10:07] Action: Laurenceb_ jumps
[10:23] <Upu> I'm in the air at the moment*
[10:23] <Upu> *30cms
[10:23] <Upu> long duration too
[10:23] <Upu> 14 hours and counting
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> you diddn't file a NOTAM though
[10:48] <fsphil> there's a 1 in 50 chance I can get helium today
[10:48] <fsphil> a friend of mine needs to drive near to where I was going to collect it
[10:48] <fsphil> gonna see if the place is opened
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[10:53] <NigeyMoby> Boo
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Hello.
[10:53] <NigeyMoby> Phil still launching?
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[10:54] <jcoxon> NigeyMoby, i think there is a small chance
[10:54] Action: SpeedEvil imagines NigeyMoby singing in a strange ambient manner.
[10:55] <NigeyMoby> Yey
[10:55] <jcoxon> but there is a lack of He
[10:55] <NigeyMoby> Lol cursing more like
[10:55] <NigeyMoby> 14inches of snow grrr
[10:56] <NigeyMoby> No he ouch :/
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[10:59] <jcoxon> bbl
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[11:19] <jonsowman> urgh, snow
[11:20] <jonsowman> I think the M25 is a no-go at the moment
[11:20] <NigeyMoby> Lots of it ::
[11:20] <jonsowman> I daresay you've got a lot more than me
[11:21] <NigeyMoby> Only 14 inches lol
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[11:24] <fsphil> nice, you got more than us
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[11:30] <fsphil> not sure this landing site would be appropriate, especially on a Sunday: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=8c635df4f353fbb114e6c59550d7460bd36705a4
[11:36] <Upu> lol
[11:47] <fsphil> nah not happening, the shop supplier is closed - staff are snowed in
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[12:01] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[12:02] <Upu> pong
[12:02] <jcoxon> Upu, hehe, you could set your dl-fldigi to offline
[12:03] <jcoxon> as lots of entries on to spacenear.us
[12:03] <Darkside> hehehe
[12:03] <jcoxon> 3881 to be precise
[12:03] <Darkside> did you see the fake horus stuff a few days back? :P
[12:03] <Upu> yeah sure sorry
[12:03] <jcoxon> hehe its okay
[12:04] <jcoxon> just thought i'd point it out
[12:04] <Upu> just soak testing
[12:04] <fsphil> it's still going?
[12:04] <Upu> yeah
[12:04] <Upu> I'll let it run 24 hours
[12:05] <Upu> ok offlined
[12:05] <Upu> sorry about thta
[12:05] <jcoxon> really no problem - just thought i'd point out the feature
[12:05] <Upu> haha ok
[12:05] <Upu> I think I've proven it's working so I might go dig it out of the snow soon
[12:06] <fsphil> poor thing
[12:07] <jcoxon> i need to motivate myself to go to the bank
[12:07] <Upu> check its open first :)
[12:07] <Upu> ok afk lunch
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[12:09] Action: SpeedEvil passes jcoxon a shotgun, and a large sack marked 'SWAG'.
[12:14] <Nigey|Away> dammit
[12:15] Nick change: Nigey|Away -> Nigey_Hates_Snow
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[12:28] <fsphil> actually melting a bit today
[12:29] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> hmm which phone do i upgrade to, galaxy s or htc desire hd :|
[12:29] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> fsphil, thanks for the snow dude! lol
[12:30] <fsphil> no worries :) knew you'd appreciate it ;)
[12:31] <fsphil> if only it had been just a few days later
[12:31] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> :(
[12:32] <fsphil> both those phones look very nice
[12:33] Action: SpeedEvil likes his n900.
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> But it's only really for those that find the possibility of being able to do really silly stuff like running JOSM on it interesting.
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> err - fldigi I mean
[12:33] <Darkside> done that :)
[12:34] <Darkside> the gui absolutely RAPES the cpu
[12:34] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> ahh, i may even go for the mozart, quite like the look of win moby 7
[12:34] <Darkside> Nigey_Hates_Snow: DONT YOU DARE
[12:34] <Darkside> ...
[12:34] <fsphil> lol
[12:34] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> lol eek *hides*
[12:34] <Darkside> HTC Desire HD all the way
[12:34] <Darkside> then you can dump cyanogenmod on there
[12:34] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> my hero looks old now :(
[12:34] <Darkside> i have a HTC Desire, which is nice :)
[12:35] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> you on 2.1 or 2.2 ?
[12:35] <Darkside> i got sick of the n900 being fucking slow and unresponsive, so i ragequit maemo and got an Android phone
[12:35] <fsphil> speaking as someone who has to setup the windows mobile phone our sales guys INSIST on buying -- avoid like the plague
[12:35] <Darkside> 2.2
[12:35] <Darkside> hopefully 2.3 soon
[12:35] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> haha oki win mo 7 is out then :P
[12:35] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> 2.3 .. yum !
[12:35] <Darkside> i still use my N900 for IRC and music
[12:35] <Darkside> but not for phone calls...
[12:35] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> lol
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Speaking personally - I have no problem on speed.
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[12:36] <SpeedEvil> But - ymmv
[12:36] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: yeah
[12:36] <fsphil> is there a decent irc client for android?
[12:36] <Darkside> fsphil: just use connectbot to a server
[12:36] <Darkside> i just use connectbot to ssh to my server, and irssi from there
[12:36] <Darkside> (in a screen session)
[12:36] <fsphil> ah
[12:37] <fsphil> true enough
[12:37] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> i use andchat .. which is ok, but tends to DC randomly :/
[12:37] <fsphil> what about the keyboard? useable?
[12:37] <Darkside> fsphil: touchscreen keyboard are always weird
[12:37] <fsphil> indeed
[12:37] <Darkside> coming from the n900, which has a hardware keyboard, i was a bit skeptical
[12:37] <Darkside> but i'm getting better at it
[12:37] <fsphil> though I have to admit, the apple one isn't too bad
[12:37] <Darkside> i've actually got the 2.3 keyboard on my phone at the moment
[12:37] <Darkside> the android 2.3 keyboard is a lot more usable than the 2.2 one
[12:37] <Gnea> so, L-109-D is a go for launch today
[12:38] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> oo
[12:38] <Darkside> Nigey_Hates_Snow: seen the Desire Z?
[12:38] <Darkside> hardware keyboard :)
[12:38] <Gnea> http://sites.google.com/site/ssclisu/habet/habet-launches
[12:38] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> yup, thats 1 very nice looking phone
[12:38] <Darkside> i would have got one, but theres no model that works on the telstra network properly yet
[12:39] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> ah that sux :(
[12:39] <Darkside> well, technically the canadian version does
[12:40] <Darkside> i think it does 850MHz and 1900MHz UMTS
[12:40] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> hmm only a 800mhz cpu .. did they not use the snapdragon ?
[12:40] <Darkside> apparently its still snappy
[12:40] <Darkside> but yes, that point was interesting..
[12:40] <Darkside> it depends if you can handle a touchscreen keyboard
[12:41] <Darkside> you'll get used to it eventually, but i don't think i'll ever be as fast as I am on my n900
[12:41] <Darkside> but tbh, if i want to type fast, i turn on wifi tethering and get out my laptop
[12:42] <fsphil> fair point
[12:42] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> same here, i just cba typing lots on the phone
[12:42] <Darkside> yeah
[12:42] <Darkside> i do like androids wifi tethering :)
[12:43] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> me to, it works lovely on ubuntu
[12:43] <Darkside> as of 2.2 it supports proper master mode tethering with WPA2
[12:43] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> but try it on win 7 , and its hell !
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised to hit 30wpm on n900
[12:43] <fsphil> really?
[12:43] <fsphil> sweet
[12:43] <Darkside> also supports USB tethering, but it doesnt work on OSX :(
[12:43] <Darkside> not yet anyway
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> afer a week of using it a lot
[12:43] <fsphil> so any laptop within range could use it
[12:43] <fsphil> that's neat
[12:43] <Darkside> fsphil: yep
[12:43] <Darkside> its pretty useful
[12:43] <Darkside> rapes the battery though - i always plug in via USB too
[12:44] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> the hero is cack for battery life, and always 45% of it is wifi :(
[12:44] <Darkside> heh
[12:45] <Darkside> if i'm not connected to anything, i get decent battery life
[12:45] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> no fair :(
[12:46] <fsphil> I'd be using wifi a lot around the house and office -- so probably most of the time :)
[12:46] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> i do like the battery life report thingy in android mind
[12:47] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> same here phil, mostly at home, except the kitchen, no signal gets through, wifi, 3g, or even the ft 790 .. must have lead walls down there or something lol
[12:47] <fsphil> nuclear bunker ;)
[12:47] <Darkside> heh my room is like a faraday cage
[12:47] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> if the walls in there are lead, im definately hacking the thing out in the summer! lol
[12:48] <Darkside> sitting at -105 dBm atm, if i walk out my bedroom door it jumps to -90dBm
[12:48] Action: Nigey_Hates_Snow sends Darkside 10,000 volts
[12:48] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> mines.. -101 6asu .. whatever that is
[12:49] <Darkside> thankfully with telstra i'm not at the overlap of about 4 different cells like i was on vodafone
[12:49] <Darkside> i'd move my phone 5cm and it would handover...
[12:50] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> ouch
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[12:55] <Nigey_Hates_Snow> oops
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[13:03] Action: Laurenceb_ is generally annoyed
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> im trying to recover data from an image of a graph -> http://i.imgur.com/XXX0S.png
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> those little markers are of variable height and spacing, they keep obscuring the data
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> you mean hitting the data and adjoining to it?
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> What are they supposed to be - resp rate?
[13:11] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, eek - i hope not
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah - they look a bit broken on reflection for that
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> heartrate - ppg
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> i think edge detection might help
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> so the x axis is a few mins?
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> 10 seconds
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> also - you could look explicitly for the straight line, and nuke any connected blobs of the right sizr
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> r
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> e
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/PoGwu.png
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> That looks _much_cooler_
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> if i "travel" down the middle of that
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> Is this an aim of the project?
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> video -> data for medical displays
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> yes
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> that does look reasonable
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> the data quality you're recovering looks OK at least.
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> im not recovering any yet :P
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> just finding screens and deperspectiveifying, then windowing them
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> PErhaps you want to check that you've got one and one only line on the y axis for every point in X
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> well yeah thats the issue
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> And that there are not too many bits like x=620
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> i had something working really well on ~95% of the data
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> but sometimes the spikes on the bottom go into the graph region
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Can't you just skip a second on?
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Or do the spikes scroll with
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> yes, they scroll
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> brb
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> I think nuking any connected blobs of the right size on your baseline is a way
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> good luck
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[13:42] <sgisgi> Hi all, is there anyone around who has experience with telit gm862's and uploading and running python scripts on the module?
[13:42] <jcoxon> sgisgi, unfortunately yes
[13:43] <sgisgi> heh, its that bad?
[13:43] <jcoxon> debug is a challenge
[13:44] <jcoxon> as it doesn't print errors
[13:46] <sgisgi> how do most folk upload their code?
[13:46] <jcoxon> you do it over serial
[13:46] <jcoxon> so you send a command to prepare the module to receive the code
[13:46] <jcoxon> then you send the code
[13:47] <jcoxon> and reset
[13:47] <sgisgi> ah k, seems fairly straightforward
[13:47] <sgisgi> let me give it a go...
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[13:51] Nick change: rambo -> kd0mto
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[13:55] Action: kd0mto heading out to fill balloon
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[14:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sparkfun.com/news/504
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[14:04] <Laurenceb_> "an in-browser development environment that relies on a graphical building-block interface rather than code. It is based heavily on the Scratch programming environment developed by the Lifelong Kindergarten Group "
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> appropriate name is appropriate
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[14:08] <stilldave> oh man, don't get me started on that
[14:09] <stilldave> I'm off anyway...
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10183 <- thats niceish
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> but they say theyll put the price up with the fixed board.. and the AD accel is lame
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> need to get my autopilot boards populated
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[14:15] <stilldave> wow, those went fast
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[14:24] Action: Laurenceb_ needs to build a reflow oven
[14:24] <Laurenceb_> theres no other way im going to get these board populated
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[14:26] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/gO2Uk.png
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> im going to do a version 2 with ublox6 and ufl connectors for an external gps ant and dual 434mhz ants
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[14:36] Nick change: Nigey_Hates_Snow -> Nigey|Away
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[14:42] <kd0mto> WE LAUNCHED!
[14:43] <kd0mto> And we're nw igating!
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[14:47] <kd0mto> http://www.openaprs.net/
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[14:47] <kd0mto> Track station KB0MGQ
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[14:53] <The-Compiler> kd0mto: congrats on the launch so far :)
[14:54] <fsphil> yay, something in the air :)
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[14:56] <kd0mto> The-Compiler: thanks
[14:57] <kd0mto> We lost backup already
[14:57] <The-Compiler> :o
[14:57] <kd0mto> Our back up responder has been having issues.
[14:59] <The-Compiler> let's hope the main works well
[15:00] <kd0mto> BACKUP CAME BACK!
[15:00] <kd0mto> backup is W0ISU-7
[15:00] <kd0mto> www.openaprs.net
[15:03] Action: kd0mto hopes this works ok
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[15:15] <kd0mto> We're about to loose APRS
[15:15] <kd0mto> So... recovery can see everything, but launch will be blind.
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[15:19] <kd0mto> And apparently our GPS firmware hasn't been updated so we can't tell the altitude above 60,000 ft
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[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Just hope it comes back when you get below that alt.
[15:25] <kd0mto> heh, it willl
[15:26] <kd0mto> Wow... this payload is getting far away
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[15:27] <fsphil> I would hate not knowing the altitude
[15:27] <kd0mto> Me too
[15:27] <kd0mto> but we will have pictures!
[15:29] Nick change: kd0mto -> DagoRed
[15:31] <DagoRed> good news, we're about to launch another payload
[15:31] <DagoRed> w00t!
[15:31] <fsphil> two for one?
[15:31] <DagoRed> Yup
[15:31] <DagoRed> time to get cold and set up launch again
[15:31] <DagoRed> last launch was in 9 F, so chilly
[15:33] <fsphil> -13c.. nippy
[15:35] <DagoRed> a tit bit nipply
[15:35] <DagoRed> We're lauching in Ames, IA
[15:35] <DagoRed> http://www.accuweather.com/us/ia/ames/50014/city-weather-forecast.asp
[15:36] <fsphil> at least your getting clear skies
[15:37] <fsphil> lovely here atm, nice moon rising
[15:37] <DagoRed> where is that?
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[15:40] <harris> Hello anyone around today? I am would like to talk with someone about the Global Forecast System
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> We are not responsible for the weather, complaints should be addressed elsewhere.
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:40] <fsphil> n.ireland
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure whop's around.
[15:40] <fsphil> or snowland as I like to call it
[15:41] <harris> : ) ah yes we had it a couple of weeks ago (lincolnshire) its great for the first couple of days
[15:42] <harris> after that....well lets say it becomes tiresome
[15:42] <harris> I spoke with Jonsowman last time
[15:46] <harris> anyone out there who knows a bit about the GFS?
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[15:48] <fsphil> no idea sorry
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> Hang around - someone may turn up
[15:49] <fsphil> yea
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> Or post to the ml
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[15:51] <harris> ok no probs, will do I am trying to read the docs on the national oceangraphic atmospheric administration lol oh joy what a read : )
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[15:59] <jcoxon> harris, you'll want to catch someone like jonsowman or eroomde when they are around
[15:59] <jcoxon> they'll know a bit more about GFS and modelling the winds
[16:00] <jcoxon> also iirc some one on DagoRed's team has also written a predictor
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[16:03] <harris> jcoxon, thank you I will, are these guys on regular?
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[16:04] <jcoxon> harris, yeah
[16:05] <harris> cool
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[16:26] <sgisgi> yay. gm862 debugging. My scripts are upload and nothing is happening. fun.
[16:27] <sgisgi> I've lost access to the AT interface and can tell that the script is running
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[16:52] <GW8RAK> Feeling pleased as the preamp is all assembled and working :)
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[16:52] <timbobel> Hii alll
[16:52] <timbobel> the launch is supposedly still on tomorrow, although there's 20cm snow
[16:52] <timbobel> can someone put HHH on the tracker?
[16:53] <MI6VIM> good news GW8RAK and timbobel :)
[16:53] <timbobel> GW8RAK?
[16:54] <timbobel> i think im going to put all my 8 cameras in =)
[16:54] <timbobel> hhhm
[16:54] <timbobel> 4.
[16:54] <MI6VIM> he got his preamp working :)
[16:54] <sgisgi> timbobel, got a blog/site about what you plan to launch?
[16:54] <MI6VIM> someone should probably update the channel topic too
[16:55] <timbobel> www.hollandshoogte.nl
[16:55] <GW8RAK> It's not a major project, but soldering 2 *2mm pieces of brass is difficult to get right.
[16:55] <GW8RAK> They stick to the soldering iron.
[16:55] <MI6VIM> have you tested it yet?
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[16:58] <GW8RAK> Not with a signal, but all the volts check out and it means the phemt is okay
[16:58] <GW8RAK> Get the sig gen out tonight
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[17:04] <GW8RAK> Just found some pcb mounting SMA sockets, so that problem is solved is as well
[17:05] <MI6VIM> they're handy, used one for the hadie payload
[17:05] <MI6VIM> last time it was just a pcb header
[17:05] <MI6VIM> which broke on landing
[17:06] <GW8RAK> I remembered I had some in my box of microwave bits
[17:07] <MI6VIM> tricky to crimp sma plugs though
[17:09] <GW8RAK> Fortunately I don't have to. I have some patch leads which will connect from the preamp to the changeover relays
[17:09] <MI6VIM> excellent
[17:09] <GW8RAK> And if it all works, I'll mount the amplifier up the mast as well.
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[17:35] <GW8RAK> Couldn't wait. Just tested the preamp and without it, my sig gen signal is about S1 while with the preamp, it is S7!
[17:36] <GW8RAK> I don't think the S meter is correctly calibrated as it should be 6dB per S point and I doubt it is producing 36dB of gain.
[17:36] <GW8RAK> So, when is the next balloon going up?
[17:37] <DagoRed> I have to go, but as it stands right now, we may terminate the second launch
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[17:48] <fsphil> fantastic GW8RAK
[17:48] <fsphil> tomorrow, but it's on holland :)
[17:48] <fsphil> in even
[17:50] <fsphil> I will be trying again on the 8th January
[17:50] <GW8RAK> I'm rather chuffed. It's only taken me about 3 years to make the thing!
[17:51] <GW8RAK> I bought it when I had the big beams up for DX working, but took them down and never got around to putting them back up.
[17:51] <GW8RAK> But it will be interesting to hear what difference it makes for satellite reception.
[17:52] <GW8RAK> If I could generate higher frequencies, I'd try to characterise the gain and see if it works at 23cm as well as 70cm. It's supposed to.
[17:53] <GW8RAK> Actually I can generate 1152MHz, so I'll try that.
[17:54] <fsphil> what do you use to receive on 23cm?
[17:58] <GW8RAK> 23cm is a bit of a problem. I've got an old transverter which uses quite old technology and by modern standards is deaf, but the preamp should improve it. I've then got modules for a more modern design, but although I can Tx, the RX is the problem.
[17:59] <GW8RAK> I do have another transverter as well using modern technology, but it uses a 28MHz IF, rather than 144 and I don't have the local oscillator for that.
[17:59] <GW8RAK> This is the problem with buying junk at rallies and silent key sales.
[17:59] <GW8RAK> Loads of bits, but nothing which actually works.
[18:00] <GW8RAK> I did acquire a BIG transverter using valves which produced about 120W, but it was deaf. The 1200V on the anode also got me worried.
[18:14] <fsphil> just a bit
[18:14] <fsphil> keep it in a faraday cage, operated with optical isolators :)
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[18:23] <GW8RAK> It's more fun when you turn it on and don't realise which bits are live.
[18:25] <timbobel> so does anyone know how to initialize "HHH" on spacenear.us ???
[18:26] <timbobel> string is simple like: $$HHH,nr,time,lat,long,alt,numsats,temp,checksum it's 5bit(baudot)
[18:26] <timbobel> i hope you guys can help track, last time we reached 463km so maybe again
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[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> hello
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[19:01] <natrium42> timbobel, that's callsign
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi timbobel
[19:03] <timbobel> hi
[19:03] <timbobel> natrium hi
[19:03] <natrium42> yo
[19:03] <timbobel> can you set up my tracker?
[19:04] <timbobel> i have a callsign but there is no need to use it due to legislations, and i am not using it because it makes my string be long since i use baudot and it has to switch between characters and numbers
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[19:11] <jcoxon> timbobel, done
[19:11] <timbobel> yeah
[19:11] <eroomde> 69 people. gosh
[19:11] <jcoxon> evening er
[19:11] <jcoxon> eroomde,
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> timbobel is the launch set for tomorrow?
[19:14] <timbobel> yeah
[19:14] <timbobel> only
[19:15] <timbobel> my lassen iq micro antenna stopped working
[19:15] <timbobel> couldnt get more than one sat
[19:15] <timbobel> so
[19:15] <timbobel> i destroyed it
[19:15] <jcoxon> !
[19:15] <timbobel> and just now in the past 5 minutes
[19:15] <jcoxon> if it can get 1 sat it is working
[19:15] <timbobel> i have soldered a SMA male head on the place where the ant was
[19:15] <jcoxon> if it didn't work it wouldn't get any
[19:15] <timbobel> hmm
[19:15] <timbobel> but it couldnt get time even
[19:15] <timbobel> while, i have another one, a Tyco, it worked within the minute
[19:16] <timbobel> i hooked it up
[19:16] <jcoxon> the lassen is old
[19:16] <jcoxon> not very sensitive
[19:16] <timbobel> so i have the lassen now connected to the UFL connected to SMA connected to a proper GPS ant
[19:16] <timbobel> yeah.. oh well
[19:16] <jcoxon> as long as it works :-p
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw did you get my E-Mail about the floater and the rotational stabilization?
[19:17] <timbobel> was it yours>
[19:17] <timbobel> yes i got it!
[19:17] <timbobel> forgot to reply :-)
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> np :)
[19:17] <timbobel> but i had no time anyway to work on something sweet
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:17] <timbobel> were actually thinking on attaching the payload to the balloon with 1m distance
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:17] <timbobel> instead of long line
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> but a long line is better for pendulum motion
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> did you see the Brooklyn video?
[19:18] Action: timbobel is using tinfoil to shield my antennawire
[19:19] <jcoxon> timbobel, http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:19] <timbobel> no?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> there was a father from NY who flew an Iphone into space
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> and he tied the box directly to the balloon
[19:19] <timbobel> oh yeah he's awful
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> and at one point it looked like the box was on top of the balloon (!)
[19:20] <timbobel> if you go on his website, it seems like he's making a business out of it
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:20] <timbobel> =)
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> his thing about "Buy the full movie!"
[19:20] <timbobel> but, so it wasa bad idea?
[19:20] <timbobel> yeah indeed
[19:20] <timbobel> or "BUY MY FUTURE BOOK"
[19:20] <timbobel> such an american
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:20] <timbobel> no offense
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> I'd say that um, a string pendulum
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> the longer it is, the longer is the swinging period
[19:21] <timbobel> i understand
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> so I thougt a long flight train is better
[19:21] <timbobel> could be
[19:21] <timbobel> unless its actaully the box that makes it swing
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:21] <timbobel> if it has the intertia of the balloon..
[19:21] <timbobel> attached to it
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the Scientific Ballooning Handbook?
[19:22] <timbobel> no?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> it's from 1975 but it talks about all kinds of things like that
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> wait, I show you where you can get that
[19:22] <timbobel> oh sounds cool
[19:22] <timbobel> y
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> http://library.ucar.edu/collections/technotes/details.php?recordID=TECH-NOTE-000-000-000-252&show=10&sortby=title_asc&q=Morris&ky[]=technotes&ky[]=theses&ky[]=manuscripts&ky[]=monographs&ky[]=asr
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[19:36] <timbobel> with the GPS ants, its obvious, but the yellowish ceramic side goes up, right.
[19:40] <Upu> yes
[19:41] <Upu> metal bit at bottom
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> by the way, will you re-fly the temperature and CH4 probes which did not work last time?
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[20:09] <timbobel> no the lassen iq gps is broken i have to make a new flightcomputer now
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[20:11] <ejcweb> Hi all. In the UKHAS communications protocol, is the checksum based on the entirety of the string preceding it (excluding the two $ signs)?
[20:13] <DanielRichman> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol - it's the whole string, not including the $$ at the start or the * that separates the string from the checksum
[20:13] <DanielRichman> as far as I can see or remember
[20:13] <DanielRichman> back in the xor days including the $$ didn't matter since $ ^ $ = 0
[20:14] <DanielRichman> but CRC16 is miles better and I don't think the $ is included for that
[20:17] <ejcweb> Ok. So the * before the checksum is included too?
[20:17] <DanielRichman> no.
[20:17] <ejcweb> Oh sorry, just seen you said that already.
[20:17] <ejcweb> So CRC16 is the one to use?
[20:18] <DanielRichman> ;-)
[20:18] <Randomskk> CRC16 is definitely the way to go
[20:18] <Randomskk> there may be a library to calculate it or you might have to do it yourself
[20:18] <DanielRichman> AVR/Arduino/PIC, ejcweb ?
[20:19] <Randomskk> we use CRC16 CCITT with a start of 0xFFFF and a polynomial of 0x1021, without invertion
[20:19] <ejcweb> Android!
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> btw they made our worst nightmares come true: http://www.imdb.de/title/tt1640571/
[20:19] <Randomskk> http://crcmod.sourceforge.net/crcmod.predefined.html crc-ccitt-false on that page
[20:20] <Randomskk> though it defines the polynomial as 0x11021 due to differences in what the first 1 means >.> basically crc is a bloody nightmare to define
[20:21] <Randomskk> the checksum of "hello, world" should be 0XD4C0
[20:21] <Randomskk> 0xD4C0 even
[20:23] <ejcweb> I think there's only a default Java package for CRC32, so I might have to do it from scratch.
[20:23] <Randomskk> have fun with that :P
[20:23] <Randomskk> it should be simple
[20:23] <Randomskk> and you'll calculate some kind of checksum
[20:24] <Randomskk> but calculating exactly the checksum we use...
[20:24] <fsphil> there's a C implantation of the crc16 we use in dl-fldigi
[20:24] <Randomskk> if you examine avr-libc you will find C source for it
[20:24] <Randomskk> but bear in mind avr-libc calls it "xmodem"
[20:24] <Randomskk> it's definitely NOT xmodem
[20:24] <Randomskk> xmodem is different
[20:24] <DanielRichman> I thought the avr-libc was some crazy awesome asm implementation
[20:24] <Randomskk> but hey, there you go
[20:24] <Randomskk> oh, maybe
[20:25] <fsphil> https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/blob/master/src/logger/rx_extract.cxx#L326
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> xmodem has no CRC
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[20:25] <DanielRichman> but Java is turing complete and already requires an amount of effort disproportionate to reward that doing that would be fine
[20:25] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: there's a form of CRC16 called 'xmodem'
[20:25] <Randomskk> later xmodem implementations used it
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> I don't recall variants of xmodem
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> But it's been a while
[20:26] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you're right, avr-libc uses crazy awesome asm
[20:27] <DanielRichman> fsphil: there's a comment saying /* Calculate checksum ignoring the first two $s */ but as far as I can see the ignoring bit is done in the code that calls gps_CRC16_ckesum ?
[20:27] <fsphil> yea I just spotted that too .. oops
[20:27] <DanielRichman> you might want to make sure you ignore the first two ejcweb
[20:27] <fsphil> the caller passes the string + 2
[20:29] <fsphil> removed those comments
[20:31] <DanielRichman> fsphil: line 175 adds a null terminator to the buffer. Is that required after line 202?
[20:32] <fsphil> 202 doesn't null terminate it
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[20:34] <DanielRichman> Should it?
[20:34] <DanielRichman> I don't know why 202 doesn't call that function....
[20:36] <fsphil> it's called on init, and after a string is received
[20:36] <fsphil> I wonder if 202 is even needed
[20:38] <fsphil> oh I see what you mean
[20:55] <fsphil> hmm.. can't, rx_buff holds the $$callsign bit - rx_extract_reset() clears that
[20:55] <fsphil> could change the order of that though
[20:56] <DanielRichman> hmm OK. But perhaps it could do with some null termination
[20:57] <fsphil> having rx_buff = beg; after rx_extract_reset(); works fine
[20:57] <fsphil> and makes more sense
[21:10] <timbobel> really cant get my 50 baud tuned :'(
[21:12] <timbobel> LOL with my other gpsm odule, worked in 2 minutes. now it seems i actually put it here up-side down hahah
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh no
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> that doesn't sound good
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[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> I hope it doesn't compromise the launch
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[21:42] <timbobel> jeeeezus wtf i think its the fldigi actually
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[21:49] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> oh dear
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/038sspdebunked.html
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> crackpottery ++
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[21:51] <jcoxon> 69
[21:52] <timbobel> ok time to re-install fldigi
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> when exactly will be the launch by the way, i.e. what time?
[21:54] <MI6VIM> 69?
[21:54] <jcoxon> peopl
[21:54] <jcoxon> e
[21:54] <MI6VIM> ooh yea
[21:54] <MI6VIM> cool
[21:54] <MI6VIM> I'm here twice :p
[21:54] <timbobel> oh god i cananot reset fldigi
[21:54] <timbobel> SIGH
[21:54] <jcoxon> ? reset fldigi
[21:55] <MI6VIM> reinstalling fldigi probably won't change anything
[21:55] <jcoxon> MI6VIM, need it for the baudot swap
[21:56] <MI6VIM> that's right, timbobel did you download the last release? not the hacky version I did?
[21:56] <MI6VIM> <-- fsphil
[21:56] <timbobel> ehm
[21:56] <timbobel> well
[21:56] <timbobel> i just installed the "new" one
[21:57] <timbobel> but doesnt change it seems
[21:57] <MI6VIM> what's happening?
[21:58] <timbobel> god damanit this is fin frustrating
[21:58] <timbobel> i dont know, i always had everything tuned
[21:58] <timbobel> now suddenly its working like crhap
[21:59] <MI6VIM> make a recording, can see if one of us can decode it
[22:03] <timbobel> supposed to be 7n1, says "$$TEST"
[22:03] <timbobel> 50bd
[22:04] <timbobel> 1}$1}$1}$1}$
[22:04] <timbobel> its what it says
[22:04] <jcoxon> have you tried the Rv button?
[22:06] <timbobel> about 23238 times
[22:06] <timbobel> i now actually have obtained $$TEST with tuning ab it
[22:06] <timbobel> james, the lassen iq is totally broken (Still gets 1 sat)
[22:07] <timbobel> while the other gps gets a sig in 10 seconds lieing upside-down
[22:07] <timbobel> and so no temp sensor, so if you' can remove that that'd be splendid (The temp)
[22:08] <eroomde> definitely line-in and not mic?
[22:09] <jcoxon> eroomde, have you seen zooniverse?
[22:09] <fsphil> arg, snowing again
[22:09] <jcoxon> timbobel, sure
[22:10] <eroomde> nope
[22:10] <jcoxon> quite cool - citizen science
[22:10] <jcoxon> i'm helping digitise old navy logs to work out about climate change
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> do you have to type everything into excel?
[22:13] <jcoxon> no its all web based
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> and are these logs from like the 1860s?
[22:13] <jcoxon> the one i'm doing is 1916
[22:13] <jcoxon> oh HMS Alert
[22:14] <MI6VIM> timbobel, can you try sending that again
[22:16] <timbobel> sigh
[22:16] <timbobel> well i am fairly sure its something to do with fldigi
[22:16] <timbobel> wait no
[22:16] <timbobel> no
[22:17] <timbobel> i got something
[22:17] <timbobel> my first string!
[22:17] <timbobel> Profit
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> yay gefeliciteerd! (please excuse errors, my Dutch has been on standby for more than a year)
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:18] <timbobel> its not fldigi
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> the cause of the error is not fldigi?
[22:22] <timbobel> pretty sure its not
[22:22] <timbobel> pretty sure its some weird arduino bugthing
[22:24] <timbobel> it just skips loads
[22:24] <timbobel> $$H ,12,990;82-.0922-.22-,9#;2, HQ
[22:25] <MI6VIM> timing problem?
[22:25] <jcoxon> timbobel, timing
[22:26] <jcoxon> timbobel, what code are you using?
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[22:29] <timbobel> its time to bring in the arduino mega
[22:29] <timbobel> ive been at this for THREE HOURS, im not sure if i am able to finish without sleeping
[22:30] <Randomskk> three hours pfft
[22:31] <jcoxon> timbobel, take a break
[22:31] <jcoxon> you'll be more efficent
[22:31] <timbobel> =) righto
[22:31] <timbobel> (can you take out the temp?)
[22:32] <jcoxon> done
[22:32] <timbobel> ty
[22:32] <timbobel> break time then
[22:35] <eroomde> coffee and a wander around outside
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde are you from the UK?
[22:36] <eroomde> mmmhmm
[22:37] <MI6VIM> maybe not outside !
[22:37] <Randomskk> maan. after hours going through farnell, reading datasheets, testing various LEDs, it turns out my original plan will probably work fine.
[22:37] <Randomskk> sigh :P
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> because here on the continent we have down to -10°C
[22:37] <eroomde> coffee and a walk outside
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> not so nice for a walk
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:37] <Randomskk> pfft
[22:37] <Randomskk> -10C is a good brisk walk :P
[22:37] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: pff. I had coffee and outide breaks in Tromso
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea it's the wet cold
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> in Greenland you can easily sustain -60°C because the air is dry
[22:38] <eroomde> I was by the sea!
[22:38] <eroomde> tromso-on-sea
[22:39] <eroomde> everyone's favourite summer retreat
[22:39] <eroomde> (not strictly true)
[22:39] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: where abouts are you?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> Osnabruck, Germany
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> some 52°N, 8°E
[22:40] <eroomde> cool
[22:40] <eroomde> yeah it's unsurprising that the only gps co-ords i know off my head are churchill college playing fields
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:41] <eroomde> (52.2135, 0.0968)
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:41] <eroomde> many years on landing prediction usage
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:41] <jonsowman> haha
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> anyone wanna have some french salami?
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> it says "With beaufort-cheese"
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:43] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: I used to work in groningen which i guess isnt actually too far from you
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[22:43] <timbobel> okay someone is going to die
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> actually the daughter of the boss of my bank lives there
[22:44] <timbobel> its actually my arduino duemilenova
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> correction
[22:44] <timbobel> it works on the friggin m ega!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> studies there
[22:44] <eroomde> timbobel: that wasn't long enough to savour a coffee
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:44] <timbobel> hahaha i didnt take a break!
[22:44] <timbobel> now i can take a Happy break!
[22:44] <timbobel> btw im going to london on sunday!
[22:44] <eroomde> that's in about 2 hours
[22:44] <MI6VIM> lol
[22:45] <eroomde> how are you travelling?
[22:45] Action: Lunar_Lander offers timbobel some of the salami
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:45] <Randomskk> the roads are awful atm
[22:45] <Randomskk> had an exciting fun drive today
[22:45] <Randomskk> s/exciting fun/awful hellish nightmare of a/
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> did you hit the trench?
[22:46] <eroomde> Randomskk: me too
[22:46] <eroomde> drove back from cam to west sussex
[22:46] <jcoxon> i drove today
[22:46] <Randomskk> ouch
[22:46] <jcoxon> not that far
[22:46] <Randomskk> not a great day for it
[22:46] <eroomde> blizzard on the M11, lots of slipping and sliding
[22:46] <Randomskk> indeed
[22:46] <timbobel> also, newsoftserial doesnt work oon the mega
[22:46] <eroomde> and lorries drifing about a bit infront of you
[22:47] <timbobel> james, you can expect telemetrystrings any minute now
[22:47] <eroomde> timbobel: what OS are you developing on?
[22:47] <Randomskk> I enjoyed the people tailgating each other up steep hills
[22:47] <jonsowman> yeah I drove southampton to surrey today
[22:47] <Randomskk> then all getting stuck half way up
[22:47] <Randomskk> and causing massive queues and just generally ugh
[22:47] <jonsowman> after having to go to portsmouth from soton for a wheel bolt for the car
[22:47] Action: jonsowman rolls eyes
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[22:48] <Randomskk> then you wait a bit for them to get over, and can happily pick up a little speed and get up it no problem
[22:48] <jcoxon> the issues i had was dirt on the road
[22:48] <Randomskk> jonsowman: get home okay in the end though I take it?
[22:48] <jcoxon> windscreen got covered
[22:48] <jonsowman> yeah it was fine really
[22:48] <eroomde> yeah i got through 1.5 litres of lighter fluid
[22:48] <jonsowman> motorways were a bit worrying at times with random patches of slush
[22:48] <jcoxon> timbobel, success
[22:49] <jonsowman> yeah pretty much emptied the washer bottle
[22:49] <eroomde> so much dirty slush on the m25 and m23
[22:49] <eroomde> it was the first time i got to properly use the stuff i learnt on the godwood skid pan
[22:49] <jonsowman> J2-3 of the M3 were /really/ bad
[22:49] <timbobel> whoomp there it is!
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[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> I can imagine that level crossings are quite dangerous now too
[22:51] <eroomde> a bit
[22:51] <eroomde> roundabouts are bad
[22:51] <eroomde> people brake and skid onto them
[22:51] <MI6VIM> eep
[22:52] <eroomde> need to start working down the gears leaving the brake well alone
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:52] <Randomskk> a lot of people could really do with a brief lesson on "how to drive in snow and ice"
[22:52] <jonsowman> lol you're telling me
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> did I tell you about that woman who's driving experience is 21 hours in driving school?
[22:52] <Randomskk> I saw people trundling along in first the whole way but getting up to 20, 30mph and then hitting the brakes hard
[22:52] <Randomskk> sigh
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> she asked me if you are required to pull the handbrake at a red light
[22:53] <jcoxon> timbobel, i'll flush the tracker tomorrow morning
[22:53] <Randomskk> I guess it's a fair enough question
[22:53] <Randomskk> well
[22:53] <Randomskk> no
[22:53] <jcoxon> right i'm off
[22:53] <Randomskk> seeya
[22:53] <jcoxon> night
[22:53] jcoxon (~jcoxon@94-193-169-53.zone7.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> night
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> damn too late
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:53] <jonsowman> saw someone with snow covering rear window completely, and all rear lights
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[22:53] <Randomskk> meh, some people did not have their lights on
[22:53] <jonsowman> couldnt see when he was braking/indicating
[22:54] <jonsowman> fantastics
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> but that woman has progressed you know?
[22:54] <jonsowman> -s
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> she proposes "we should get cars which drive full auto or we should abandon private cars"
[22:54] <Randomskk> or had a back entirely covered in snow, except for a little semicircle from the back wiper
[22:54] <Randomskk> full auto cars would probably be better than a lot of people in this weather
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:54] <Randomskk> though I wonder how capable current autonomous systems are at dealing with this kind of thing
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> well
[22:55] <eroomde> imagine if all satnavs could communicate
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> I know one system which works
[22:55] Action: Lunar_Lander turns around
[22:55] <Randomskk> I doubt their traffic management includes waiting for people to clear the hill in front before attempting it in icy weather
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> "KITT, could you come here?"
[22:55] <Randomskk> eroomde: some of them do these days, aiui
[22:55] <Randomskk> traffic management
[22:55] <eroomde> and then use routing protocols to route all the cars to where they want to go a la tcp/ip
[22:55] <MI6VIM> Turbo Boost!
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:55] <Randomskk> in tcp/ip you can afford to lose a few packets though
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:55] <timbobel> back
[22:56] <eroomde> we can aford to lose a few cars
[22:56] <timbobel> jcoxon: flushing it would be really much appreciated
[22:56] <Randomskk> :P
[22:56] <jonsowman> hehe
[22:56] <Randomskk> I keep thinking back to the systems lecture with the cars trying to keep a set distance from the car in front, with the oscillations building up as you get further down the chain
[22:56] <MI6VIM> the current system already has too high a packet loss
[22:56] <Randomskk> to an extent I guess that's one of the very hard things with getting something like that deployed
[22:56] <Randomskk> when people are driving the cars you can get by with the odd crash
[22:56] <eroomde> oh it goes away
[22:57] <Randomskk> but if software was doing it, people wouldn't stand for it
[22:57] <eroomde> that cascaded PID problem
[22:57] <eroomde> if you have feedback of the derivative of the car behind
[22:59] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> thing is, thats why we get traffic jams
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> poeples control loops build up oscillations until the traffic jams up
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> once you reach a critical traffic density it always jams
[23:02] <Randomskk> with people driving
[23:02] <Randomskk> with a system controlling all the cars you could increase the critical density
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> IIRC a few cars with the right cruise control and you can break up the human induced oscilaltions as they travel down the motorway
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> theres some interesting papers on this
[23:03] <Randomskk> yea, it takes like one in ten
[23:03] Action: Randomskk worked for a company doing this sort of thing for a few weeks before they went into administration
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> :(
[23:03] <Randomskk> some good books too
[23:04] Action: Laurenceb_ is bored
[23:04] <Randomskk> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Traffic-drive-what-says-about/dp/0141027398/ is fascinating
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> ah something to read :P
[23:04] <Randomskk> if you had a kindle you could be reading it right now :P
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> was hoping to finish my zl antenni, but the farnell order i placed on wednesday still ahsnt arrived
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> must be the snow
[23:09] <MI6VIM> I'd have loved to have gotten a picture of it from 30km
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[23:15] Action: SpeedEvil just got some pot he ordered on the 7th.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320607289607&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> thats huge
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> you just got it?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> you get mail at quarter past 11 pm?
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[23:21] <SpeedEvil> well - today
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> And yes, it's huge.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> But it was not significantly more expensive than one half the size - which I know I will sometimes use fully
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> So...
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> I'm making up _large_ batches of nice stews and curries and ... and freezing, so I don't have to cook when I'm feeling crap.
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> good idea
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[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Also, it's really handy to be able to take out induction hob, and pot, and have lots of hot water available if needed. Makes washing up tools outside much easier.
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:28] <Randomskk> http://www.crydom.com/en/seriesonedr/index.shtml is it just me or is this the most overkill web page for a relay ever
[23:29] <jonsowman> lol
[23:29] <Randomskk> try changing section once it's loaded, there's like an explosion animation
[23:29] <jonsowman> :o
[23:29] <jonsowman> oh wow
[23:30] <Randomskk> applications include "professional cooking"
[23:33] <jonsowman> lol
[23:34] <timbobel> how long should the antenna be again?
[23:34] <timbobel> 434mhz?
[23:34] <timbobel> 16.3?
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> lambda/2 or so?
[23:34] <Randomskk> yes, 434MHz
[23:34] <jonsowman> lambda/4
[23:34] <Randomskk> well assuming you are in fact making a quarter wave whip with ground plane
[23:34] <jonsowman> indeed
[23:35] <Randomskk> then the clue is definitely in the name - 17.25cm
[23:36] <Randomskk> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=(c+/+(434MHz))+/+4
[23:36] <Randomskk> but like
[23:36] <Randomskk> also
[23:36] <Randomskk> if you are making it out of copper you need to take that into account
[23:37] <Randomskk> the velocity factor might be like 2/3
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28c%2F434+MHz%29%2F4
[23:38] <Randomskk> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=((2c%2F3)+%2F+(434MHz))+%2F+4
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[23:39] <Randomskk> so for a VF of 2/3 you need 11.5cm instead of 17.27cm
[23:39] <timbobel> ok so what should i use for my flight
[23:39] <timbobel> 434mhz on the balloon ntx2 10mw
[23:39] <Randomskk> about 16 is likely to work
[23:40] <timbobel> k
[23:40] <timbobel> doesnt need to be exact?
[23:41] <Randomskk> it should be exact but you can't work out what it should be, so instead use about 16
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[23:53] <ejcweb> I'm just looking at the CRC code from dl-fldigi, and am a bit confused by one point (possibly my lack of C++ knowledge):
[23:53] <ejcweb> On this line - https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/blob/master/src/logger/rx_extract.cxx#L332
[23:54] <DanielRichman> ok ejcweb
[23:54] <ejcweb> The second argument is cast as a uint16_t, but the function takes a uint8_t as its second argument.
[23:54] <ejcweb> I don't see why this is the case.
[23:55] <DanielRichman> oh. I have no idea ;P
[23:55] <fsphil> fair point
[23:55] <fsphil> it's gonna get cast anyway :)
[23:55] Action: DanielRichman runs git blame
[23:55] Action: DanielRichman looks at fsphil
[23:56] <fsphil> I'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that meddling git
[23:56] <Randomskk> =D
[23:57] <ejcweb> So checking my sanity here, it'd work just fine if the crc_xmodem_update's second argument took a uint16_t, and removed the cast?
[23:57] <fsphil> change the cast to an uint8_t
[23:58] <ejcweb> In my Java mind this works, but I couldn't say for C++...
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[00:00] --- Sun Dec 19 2010