highaltitude.log.20101214

[00:17] Nick change: dr_fuds -> DagRed
[00:18] juxta (Bogaurd@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:19] Nick change: DagRed -> DagoRed
[00:52] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[01:04] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[01:35] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[01:35] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[02:03] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[02:28] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[02:46] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[02:49] DagoRed (dago@j15-1.nat.iastate.edu) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[03:08] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[03:51] jasonb (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[04:19] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:28] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[04:38] Darkside1 (~Darkside@ppp195-83.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:39] johnnyfif (~johnnyfiv@c-98-247-165-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] Darkside (~Darkside@hpavc/darkside) left irc: Disconnected by services
[04:40] Darkside1 (~Darkside@ppp195-83.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Client Quit
[04:40] er1k757_ (~erik@tornado.beebe.cc) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] Darkside (~Darkside@hpavc/darkside) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] jontyw_ (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[04:51] madEngineer (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:52] jontyw_ (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:52] Upu_ (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) got netsplit.
[04:52] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) got netsplit.
[04:52] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) got netsplit.
[04:52] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got netsplit.
[04:52] Nigey (~EcEnTiAl@78.129.163.62) got netsplit.
[04:52] borism (~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) got netsplit.
[04:52] ACowan31 (~ACowan31@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] bagpuss_thecat (~bagpuss_t@2001:41c8:1:5253::2) got netsplit.
[04:52] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] ben_apex (~ben_apex@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] kleinjt (~kleinjt@tarsonis.acad.rose-hulman.edu) got netsplit.
[04:52] sbasuita (ssb@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rlifbpmjlduqgekd) got netsplit.
[04:52] eroomde (~ed@nessie.habhub.org) got netsplit.
[04:52] mike_jh (~mike@hopper.bobsbasement.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:52] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) got netsplit.
[04:52] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) got netsplit.
[04:52] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) got netsplit.
[04:52] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) got netsplit.
[04:52] johnnyfive (~johnnyfiv@c-98-247-165-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) got netsplit.
[04:52] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcvpvtdwihvwjeog) got netsplit.
[04:52] er1k757 (~erik@tornado.beebe.cc) got netsplit.
[04:52] jontyw (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:52] x-f (~x-f@durvis.zetcom.lv) got netsplit.
[04:52] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3895F.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit.
[04:52] jiffe (~jiffe@nsab.us) got netsplit.
[04:52] ms7821 (Mark@goatse.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:52] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:52] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) got netsplit.
[04:52] madEngineer (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Client Quit
[04:53] ben_apex (~ben_apex@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:53] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:53] ACowan31 (~ACowan31@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:53] bagpuss_thecat (~bagpuss_t@2001:41c8:1:5253::2) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:53] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:53] x-f_ (~x-f@durvis.zetcom.lv) joined #highaltitude.
[04:54] DagoRed (~dago@2610:130:102:1200:21c:b3ff:feb8:da45) joined #highaltitude.
[04:54] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] iNatrium (~alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:54] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3895F.dip.t-dialin.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] jiffe (~jiffe@nsab.us) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] Upu_ (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:54] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] kleinjt (~kleinjt@tarsonis.acad.rose-hulman.edu) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] sbasuita (ssb@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rlifbpmjlduqgekd) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] eroomde (~ed@nessie.habhub.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] mike_jh (~mike@hopper.bobsbasement.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] Nick change: DagoRed -> 18VABW7SJ
[04:55] ms7821 (Mark@goatse.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] jontyw (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:55] russss_ (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) joined #highaltitude.
[04:55] russss_ (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) left irc: Changing host
[04:55] russss_ (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftqrmdychwsmsskg) joined #highaltitude.
[04:56] Nigey (~EcEnTiAl@78.129.163.62) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:56] borism (~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:56] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc:
[04:56] TraumaPwny (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[04:57] Nick change: russss_ -> Guest68155
[04:57] Nick change: 18VABW7SJ -> DagoRed
[04:57] Nick change: TraumaPwny -> TraumaPony
[04:57] Nigey (~EcEnTiAl@78.129.163.62) got netsplit.
[04:57] borism (~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) got netsplit.
[04:57] ms7821 (Mark@goatse.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:57] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:57] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) got netsplit.
[04:57] kleinjt (~kleinjt@tarsonis.acad.rose-hulman.edu) got netsplit.
[04:57] sbasuita (ssb@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rlifbpmjlduqgekd) got netsplit.
[04:57] eroomde (~ed@nessie.habhub.org) got netsplit.
[04:57] mike_jh (~mike@hopper.bobsbasement.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:57] jontyw (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got netsplit.
[04:57] Guest68155 (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftqrmdychwsmsskg) got netsplit.
[04:57] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) got netsplit.
[04:57] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) got netsplit.
[04:57] Upu_ (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) got netsplit.
[04:57] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) got netsplit.
[04:57] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) got netsplit.
[04:57] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got netsplit.
[04:57] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) got netsplit.
[04:57] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) got netsplit.
[04:57] iNatrium (~alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) got netsplit.
[04:57] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3895F.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit.
[04:57] jiffe (~jiffe@nsab.us) got netsplit.
[04:57] x-f_ (~x-f@durvis.zetcom.lv) got netsplit.
[04:57] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) got netsplit.
[04:57] ACowan31 (~ACowan31@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:57] bagpuss_thecat (~bagpuss_t@2001:41c8:1:5253::2) got netsplit.
[04:57] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:57] ben_apex (~ben_apex@lister.hexoc.com) got netsplit.
[04:58] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] borism (~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Nigey (~EcEnTiAl@78.129.163.62) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Guest68155 (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftqrmdychwsmsskg) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] jontyw (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] ms7821 (Mark@goatse.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] mike_jh (~mike@hopper.bobsbasement.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] eroomde (~ed@nessie.habhub.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] sbasuita (ssb@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rlifbpmjlduqgekd) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] kleinjt (~kleinjt@tarsonis.acad.rose-hulman.edu) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Upu_ (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] jiffe (~jiffe@nsab.us) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3895F.dip.t-dialin.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] iNatrium (~alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] ben_apex (~ben_apex@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] Matt_soton (~Matt_soto@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] ACowan31 (~ACowan31@lister.hexoc.com) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] bagpuss_thecat (~bagpuss_t@2001:41c8:1:5253::2) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] x-f_ (~x-f@durvis.zetcom.lv) returned to #highaltitude.
[04:58] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Client Quit
[05:01] jiffe98 (~jiffe98@209.159.247.189) left irc: Ping timeout: 333 seconds
[05:01] jiffe98 (~jiffe98@209.159.247.189) joined #highaltitude.
[05:03] x-f (~x-f@durvis.zetcom.lv) got lost in the net-split.
[05:03] er1k757 (~erik@tornado.beebe.cc) got lost in the net-split.
[05:03] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcvpvtdwihvwjeog) got lost in the net-split.
[05:03] johnnyfive (~johnnyfiv@c-98-247-165-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) got lost in the net-split.
[05:03] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) got lost in the net-split.
[05:03] jontyw_ (~jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[05:10] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-88-83.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[05:34] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:08] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3895F.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[06:08] Upu_ (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[06:10] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) got netsplit.
[06:10] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) got netsplit.
[06:10] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got netsplit.
[06:10] simhed (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:10] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) returned to #highaltitude.
[06:10] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) returned to #highaltitude.
[06:12] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:13] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3BABD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:21] simhed_ (simhed@mainframe.wtpltd.net) got lost in the net-split.
[06:46] nv1k (~madEngine@173-17-187-159.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Quit: bedtime
[06:48] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:49] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:53] DagoRed (~dago@2610:130:102:1200:21c:b3ff:feb8:da45) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[07:04] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[07:05] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:15] iNatrium (alexei@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left #highaltitude.
[07:45] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:47] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[08:01] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Quit: woosh
[08:02] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[08:08] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[08:23] slothearn (~euclid@pool-96-249-157-79.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:34] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[08:50] gm_ (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:51] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[08:56] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[08:58] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host81-156-69-119.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:01] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-140-94-108.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[09:05] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[09:21] fsphil (540cf08a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.12.240.138) joined #highaltitude.
[09:26] <GW8RAK> fsphil, morning. Are you thinking of launching this weekend?
[09:27] <fsphil> yep, that's still the plan. not sure which day yet, waiting for the predictions to settle down
[09:27] <fsphil> predictions are not great so far, I may have to overfill the balloon a bit
[09:27] <GW8RAK> Up and down a bit quicker
[09:27] <GW8RAK> Up, at least.
[09:28] <GW8RAK> Just trying to arrange the weekend and sort out the receiving station.
[09:28] <fsphil> appreciated :)
[09:28] <GW8RAK> Had to give the FT897 back last night :( so it's down to the trusty FT726.
[09:29] <GW8RAK> No PC control, but it performs well.
[09:29] <fsphil> its a good looking radio
[09:30] <GW8RAK> There is a fault on mine, but for satellite work, it isn't a problem. One day I'll sort it out.
[09:30] <GW8RAK> I think it's a synthesiser problem
[09:31] <fsphil> what sort of antenna will you be using?
[09:32] <GW8RAK> I think it will still be the colinear with preamp. I've been wanting to buy a small 70cm yagi, but Laurenceb experiences with Moonraker make me wary of their product. But I quite like the small size of the aerial, so perhaps after Christmas, I may get one.
[09:33] <GW8RAK> I've got 100 - 500MHz log periodic at home which someone gave me. Virtually brand new and looks very technical.
[09:33] <GW8RAK> It's the most complicated dummy load I've got!
[09:34] <fsphil> haha, not so good then
[09:34] <GW8RAK> It is directional, but it's gain is almost non existant.
[09:34] <GW8RAK> The Colinear with 7dB is better or equal to it.
[09:34] <GW8RAK> Despite what the advertising blurb says.
[09:35] <GW8RAK> I'm just glad I didn't pay for it. My experience seems to be what others think of them as well.
[09:37] <Darkside> well its a log periodic antenna
[09:37] <Darkside> its just mant to be a wideband receiver antenna
[09:37] <Darkside> meant*
[09:37] <GW8RAK> I think that is all that can be claimed for it.
[09:38] <GW8RAK> I've also got a discone at home. I wonder how that would perform for balloon reception?
[09:39] <Darkside> as an omnidirectional antenna, fine
[09:39] <GW8RAK> The log periodic is also a transmitting aerial
[09:42] <fsphil> 7dB on 70cm is what is claimed for the vertical I have, and it's worked well
[09:42] <fsphil> and that's without a pre-amp
[09:47] <Elwell> you folks got a link to 'idiots guide to setting up a receiving station' anywhere?
[09:47] <eroomde> Elwell: yes indeed! the UKHAS wiki has lots of good information
[09:47] <eroomde> let me find you a link
[09:47] <Elwell> tge fl-0digi one?
[09:47] <Elwell> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[09:47] <eroomde> Elwell: is this for the usual 434MHz flights or for the transatlantic attempt?
[09:48] <Elwell> eroomde: right now, anything :-) -- I'd rather know I'm able to receive...
[09:48] <Darkside> is the transatlantic attempt goign to use HF?
[09:48] <eroomde> Elwell: yep that's the guide
[09:49] <eroomde> well, 99.9% of flights are 434MHz
[09:49] <Darkside> make it turn on as soon as its over international waters >_>
[09:49] <Elwell> aah and I need SSB
[09:49] <eroomde> the transatlantic attempts are very rare and need to use much lower frequencies for the signal to propagate across the ocean
[09:49] <Darkside> HF wudl make sense if you're going to do transatlantic
[09:49] <Darkside> bounce off the ionosphere - would need a few watts of power tho
[09:49] <eroomde> you'd be surprised
[09:49] <Darkside> maybe lower the duty cycle on HF
[09:50] <eroomde> you can have a full size dipole at 20km altitude
[09:50] <Darkside> well yes
[09:50] <eroomde> you get pretty amazing propagation from that
[09:50] <Darkside> but the atlantic is a pretty big place
[09:50] <eroomde> i've seen people do transatlantic morse with 100mW
[09:50] <Darkside> well yes
[09:50] <Darkside> we did 40mW at 35km
[09:50] <Darkside> on 7MHz
[09:51] <fsphil> wspr can be done with very few photons
[09:51] <Darkside> that was with a half-wave dipole off the balloon
[09:51] <Elwell> my poor wee KG-UVD1p won't cut it
[09:51] <eroomde> but yes I beleive this one is of the order of 1W
[09:51] <Darkside> even then, it didn't bounce off the ionosphere
[09:51] <Darkside> next flight with HF i hope to do about 3W
[09:51] <eroomde> well, the 100mW one obviously did
[09:51] <Darkside> yes, it probably had better conditions to
[09:51] <eroomde> if conditions are right, propagation can be startlingly effective
[09:51] <Darkside> too*
[09:51] <Darkside> yeah
[09:52] <eroomde> indeed yes - conditions make all the difference
[09:52] <Darkside> in this case you want it to work mostly irrespective of conditions
[09:52] <eroomde> Elwell: well anyway yes, that's the guide, but definitely ask on here if it doesn't make sense
[09:52] <Darkside> since if the conditions go to crap when you need the data most, you're stuffed
[09:52] <Darkside> maybe put a backup SPOT transmitter on it or something
[09:53] <eroomde> they have done
[09:53] <Darkside> :)
[09:53] <Darkside> cool
[09:53] <Darkside> got a link for it?
[09:53] <eroomde> i think satcom is the primary means of com
[09:53] <eroomde> with HF secondary
[09:53] <fsphil> aprs over satellite would be cool
[09:53] <eroomde> but HF is far more fun!
[09:53] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[09:53] Action: Elwell puts a new radio on his list for santa
[09:54] <eroomde> Elwell: see if you can grab a yaesu ft-790
[09:54] <eroomde> ebay often has them
[09:54] <fsphil> there's one on there right now
[09:54] <fsphil> ends today
[09:55] <Elwell> 80 squids, hmm
[09:55] <eroomde> not a bad price!
[09:55] <eroomde> £120-£150 seems to be the going rate
[09:55] <GW8RAK> For HF propagation conditions, this site gives all the information. perhaps even too much.
[09:55] <GW8RAK> http://www.ips.gov.au/HF_Systems
[09:55] <eroomde> they're wonderful radios, as sensitive as anything new. We (CUSF) had one for about the first 12 flights
[09:55] <Darkside> :P
[09:56] <Darkside> ips.gov.au is awesome
[09:56] <Elwell> I'm looking for something to work satellites with longer term
[09:56] <Darkside> i'm very proud of my government for doing that :P
[09:56] <eroomde> Elwell: you usually need two radios for that, or a full duplex radio
[09:56] <eroomde> but the 790 will happily work the U part of any V/U sat
[09:58] <GW8RAK> For satellite work, there aren't many radios around now. The Icom IC 910 is the main one.
[09:58] <GW8RAK> I'm not sure if Yaesu have one any more, since the 847 was discontinued.
[09:59] <Elwell> the club has a FT-736R but I need to redo the antennas - they're all HF bods these days
[09:59] <GW8RAK> The 736 was the replacement for mine but with CAT control. Quite rare and expensive on ebay.
[10:00] <Elwell> and CAT isn't great as there's no feedback of freq -> pc
[10:01] <GW8RAK> Is there not? Presumably an error message comes back if the frequency can't be set to the instructed value?
[10:01] <GW8RAK> I've use CAT with the 817 and 897 and it's just worked well. Haven't considered the possibility of limited functions.
[10:01] <Elwell> apparently not. I have many nights of lead construction and software faffage ahead ...
[10:02] <GW8RAK> One option if you want a 790 is to get a 290 as well and run them together for V/U satellite work. I tried it, but got rid of them to fund an 817. Wish I'd kept them.
[10:03] <GW8RAK> For doppler tracking, you can send a command via the mic socket which shifts one up in frequency and the other down.
[10:05] <Elwell> hmm if the ic-9100 is out 'soon' then there may be some 910's appearing on the market
[10:06] <GW8RAK> Hadn't heard about the 9100. It has got to be out of my price bracket!
[10:08] Nick change: Guest68155 -> russss
[10:08] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftqrmdychwsmsskg) left irc: Changing host
[10:08] russss (u30@unaffiliated/russss) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] russss (u30@unaffiliated/russss) left irc: Changing host
[10:08] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftqrmdychwsmsskg) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] <GW8RAK> No prices yet.
[10:11] <eroomde> gosh yes, looks like the sort of thing that is out of people's price brackets
[10:15] <GW8RAK> Had to get some oil for the central heating this morning, so no more radio expenditure for a while :(
[10:21] <Laurenceb> hi all
[10:22] <Laurenceb> as it happens im about to have a go finishing the zl-special assembly
[10:23] <GW8RAK> Have the bits arrived?
[10:24] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:24] <GW8RAK> Do they make sense?
[10:24] <Laurenceb> trying to work out how to mount the cap..
[10:24] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:25] <Laurenceb> need to mount an airspaced cap, the issue is making it possible to adjust without dismantling
[10:29] <eroomde> GW8RAK: it's ultra expensive at the moment isn't it
[10:29] <eroomde> in the lead-up to christmas
[10:29] <eroomde> the downside of having a house in the middle on nowhere in west sussex is that we have an oil-fired aga
[10:29] <eroomde> and it's thirsty
[10:29] <eroomde> and usually picks christmas day (25 people coming over) to pack up
[10:30] <Laurenceb> oil used to be cheapest
[10:34] <fsphil> those where the days
[10:52] <fsphil> a Friday launch would land fairly solidly in Wales
[10:53] <GW8RAK> eroomde - very expensive. I paid 44p in March and now it's 68p!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[10:53] <GW8RAK> And they can't guarantee delivery until January.
[10:54] <GW8RAK> So we'll have to hope it will last.
[10:54] <eroomde> GW8RAK: yep same. 69 here - 50% increase over the last fill
[10:54] <GW8RAK> it should do, but with a return to cold weather and snow for Wales, that means we'll be snowed in.
[10:55] <fsphil> yea -- be iffy if I could get the chase cars
[10:55] <GW8RAK> It's a great location for radio work, but for Northerly driven snow, we get it bad.
[10:55] <GW8RAK> fsphil, where is the predicted landing zone?
[10:57] <GW8RAK> Just run the prediction and if it goes another 40 miles, it'll be very convenient.
[10:58] <fsphil> hm, hold on I changed a parameter and the predictors got stuck
[10:59] <fsphil> i'd forgot about the snow, forecast for here too
[10:59] <GW8RAK> 3m per sec ascent and it lands about 20 miles away.
[11:00] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=102a79face11b41962b250685e99dc58d17e56ac
[11:00] <fsphil> bursts early it goes for a swim, too late and it lands in england
[11:00] <GW8RAK> It's okay, the English don't bite!
[11:01] <fsphil> that's true.. I've yet to be bitten by an englishman :)
[11:02] <GW8RAK> Nice landing spot. About an hour away.
[11:02] <eroomde> not the easies recovery terrain though!
[11:02] <fsphil> yea, bit bumpy
[11:03] <eroomde> you'll want to get a good landing estimate so there's a chance of recovery as the signal will be trapped my mountains
[11:03] <fsphil> better than the lake district though
[11:03] <GW8RAK> It's pretty remote, but provided the roads are open, then a nice walk.
[11:03] <fsphil> now this would be impressive: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=bc28ededa3be70e13c4cdb873268ff6979b605f2
[11:03] <eroomde> though that prediction has it clearing the worst parts
[11:03] <GW8RAK> Go for it. Take a chance
[11:04] <eroomde> lol
[11:04] <fsphil> nah, I'd even a remote chance of getting it back :)
[11:04] <fsphil> maybe on my second flight
[11:04] <eroomde> and they might think it comes from an angel in the sky
[11:04] <fsphil> just a tracker and the uart camera
[11:04] <GW8RAK> If it was likely to come down in such as area as the first prediction, I'd take a chance and be in position before it lands and track it on the way down.
[11:04] <eroomde> and worship it
[11:04] <eroomde> maybe i'm being a little unfair to islanders of man
[11:04] <GW8RAK> Strange people the Manx
[11:05] <eroomde> manx!
[11:05] <eroomde> couldn't remember the word
[11:05] <eroomde> ta
[11:05] <fsphil> I hear them the odd time using the belfast repeater
[11:06] <GW8RAK> I'm off work Friday pm, so if you want a recovery team, I'll see what I can do.
[11:06] <GW8RAK> But with today's orders, it's a busy run up to Christmas.
[11:07] <fsphil> it's unlikely to be honest
[11:09] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[11:10] <GW8RAK> With the progress I've made recently, I'll be applying for a launch slot early in January (the application, not the launch)
[11:11] <GW8RAK> And start looking for sponsorship
[11:13] <fsphil> what all are you launching?
[11:14] <GW8RAK> Initially, it's just the standard GPS, tracker and stills camera
[11:14] <eroomde> GW8RAK: from where are you planning to launch?
[11:16] <GW8RAK> I'm hoping for Ruthin in the Vale of Clwyd as it's convenient, we have a nice warm building to work from and internet access for streaming the launch video.
[11:16] <GW8RAK> But alternatives are RAF Mona and Valley on Anglesey.
[11:16] <GW8RAK> With these, we can inflate in a hangar.
[11:16] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[11:17] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:18] aka2 (~akawaka@icculus.org) joined #highaltitude.
[11:20] <fsphil> that would be nice
[11:21] <fsphil> I've got a feeling I'm gonna have pretty cold digits when inflating ours :)
[11:24] <GW8RAK> Ruthin is preferred, but it may be too close to a major airway running down the Welsh border.
[11:40] Nick change: gm_ -> gm
[11:49] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.36) joined #highaltitude.
[11:49] <jcoxon> White star balloon postponed till the new year
[11:50] <jonsowman> oh :( why?
[11:50] <jcoxon> Not finished
[11:50] <jonsowman> ah I see
[11:50] <jonsowman> shamre
[11:50] <jonsowman> *shame
[11:50] <fsphil> aww
[11:50] <jcoxon> Best not rush these sort of things
[11:50] <fsphil> yep, better late than fail
[11:51] <jcoxon> All focus on you then fsphil
[11:51] <jcoxon> :)
[11:51] <fsphil> eep
[11:51] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:52] <fsphil> the predictions are not encouraging, but I've ordered the gas anyway
[11:52] <jcoxon> Which way?
[11:53] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4ee0df4121eaa13d3e2b42ff7ae40f4276923bd7
[11:53] <jcoxon> On my phone
[11:53] <jonsowman> oh that's a bit wet
[11:53] <fsphil> I won't have enough gas to force an early enough burst, so I'll probably underfill and try to get it to the other side
[11:54] <jcoxon> Invade Wales
[11:54] <jonsowman> :o
[11:55] <jcoxon> Really excited about ssdv
[11:57] <fsphil> yea I'm looking forward to seeing how well that goes myself
[11:57] <eroomde> If there was a flight a bit geographically nearer me I'd be super keen on having a listen
[11:58] <fsphil> sunday, with 2.5m/s ascent: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f4026a35cf71a522764fdda83fc2252ca0abef2a
[11:58] <fsphil> assumes a 33km burst though, which might be a bit optimistic
[11:59] <jcoxon> Eroomde, we should get on and do our superpressure flight
[11:59] <juxta> how big is the balloon fsphil?
[11:59] <fsphil> 1kg
[11:59] <fsphil> payload should be about 600g
[12:00] <fsphil> the calculators says it'll burst at 35990m :)
[12:00] <fsphil> would end up in the north sea
[12:01] <fsphil> I wonder if I can hack up a cut-down device
[12:01] <eroomde> it won; make it that high, not to worry
[12:01] <jonsowman> the calculator model breaks down at that sort of altitude
[12:01] <eroomde> i'm not sure it strictly breaks down, but it assumes the balloons are better than they are
[12:02] <eroomde> i.e. that they will always make it to their designed burst diameter
[12:02] <jonsowman> yea
[12:02] <eroomde> usually there's some weak spot, or a bit of UV damage, or something, that means they go a bot before
[12:07] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.36) left irc: Quit: Bye
[12:07] <Laurenceb> www.rfmd.com/CS/Documents/SGL-0622ZDS.pdf <- just dead bugged that
[12:07] <Laurenceb> not fun
[12:10] <eroomde> Darkside: yo
[12:15] Jasperw (~jasperw@93.89.81.29) joined #highaltitude.
[12:24] <Darkside> eroomde: ?
[12:30] <eroomde> Darkside: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[12:30] <eroomde> courtesy of jcoxon
[12:30] <Darkside> what about it
[12:30] <eroomde> 2W
[12:30] <eroomde> oh no ignore that
[12:31] <eroomde> wrong link
[12:31] <eroomde> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=hardware:radio:wb8elkwhitestarn17
[12:31] <Darkside> ooh ok
[12:31] <eroomde> HF info for the trans attempt
[12:32] <Darkside> i'd like to see their hardware
[12:33] <eroomde> wb8elk is the man to ask
[12:54] <fsphil> hmpf.. I need to order a few capacitors and a voltage regulator, total about £3 -- cpc handling charge is £6
[12:54] <fsphil> bah
[12:55] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[13:34] <GW8RAK> That last prediction fsphil is landing in some really remote countryside
[13:40] Action: Laurenceb has made a Ghz oscillator
[13:40] <Laurenceb> slight problem... its supposed to be an lna
[13:41] <GW8RAK> Oscillators are always easier to make than an amplifier
[13:41] <Laurenceb> disadvantage of such a high gain ic :S
[13:41] <Laurenceb> i tried dead bugging it with rg178
[13:41] <Laurenceb> dunno what to try now
[13:41] <GW8RAK> I had an HF transmitter which was putting out 150mW where I wanted it and nearly a watt on VHF.
[13:43] <Laurenceb> guess i might be able to glue it upside down on some fr4
[13:44] <GW8RAK> That device has a lot of gain. I wasn't aware that the noise figures on MMIC's had come down that much.
[13:44] <Laurenceb> its very nice
[13:45] <Laurenceb> just ideally needs a pcb
[13:47] <Laurenceb> so annoying... pcbtrain are fast i guess but so expensive
[13:47] <Laurenceb> would suck to get seeedstudio to make a dfn8 breakout for me
[13:49] <Laurenceb> pcbtrain takes as long as seeed if you want sane prices :(
[13:51] <Laurenceb> guess i could try etching my own board
[13:57] <Laurenceb> can anyone suggest some other pcb place i could try?
[13:57] <GW8RAK> I've done that many times, but nothing which needs lots of tracks.
[13:57] <GW8RAK> Before Christmas, I want to experiment with inkjet ink on release paper and then use a heat press to transfer it onto the board
[13:58] <Laurenceb> im never going to get this ant built :(
[13:59] <GW8RAK> If I get a heat press here at work, I can then use it for other activities.
[13:59] <Laurenceb> be fast to go the whole way and make it inbuilt sdr with ethernet
[13:59] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:59] <Laurenceb> ive got etch kit - i guess i might as welll try and do a carrier pcb
[13:59] <GW8RAK> Did Moonraker just send a length of coax for the capacitor?
[14:00] <Laurenceb> no, proper cap
[14:00] <Laurenceb> but ill ditch that and use a nicer one on the pcb
[14:00] <GW8RAK> A high voltage one?
[14:00] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:00] <Laurenceb> well 200v or so
[14:00] <GW8RAK> That's good of them.
[14:00] <Laurenceb> yes, when they eventually sent it
[14:01] <Laurenceb> but ill use a smd trimpot so it can be adjusts with a screwdriver through the bottom
[14:01] <Laurenceb> i want it to be weatherproof
[14:01] <GW8RAK> I'm tempted to order one of their ZL specials as a Christmas build project, but if it doesn't come complete, I may as well wait or make my own.
[14:02] <Laurenceb> would you be interested in some ZL-special lna adaptor boards?
[14:02] <Laurenceb> if i design one and order a load from seedstudio
[14:03] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] <GW8RAK> Could well be. I have a preamp which I'm hoping to finish off this weekend, but another one would be useful
[14:04] <Laurenceb> sounds interesting
[14:04] <Laurenceb> what frequency?
[14:04] <Laurenceb> noise figure etc?
[14:04] <GW8RAK> The current one? It's the G0MRF kit.
[14:05] <fsphil> GW8RAK: yea the predictions have all changed
[14:05] <fsphil> saturday is landing closer to the coast now
[14:05] <Laurenceb> what frequency is that?
[14:06] <fsphil> or scotland: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2dd0e9ef9b893dd4a1f6f95256554ab29585b0d7
[14:06] <GW8RAK> It's 70cm and 23cm, 0.6 NF and about 18dB of gain.
[14:06] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:06] <Laurenceb> kit?
[14:07] <GW8RAK> Yes, it's £20 inc postage
[14:08] <GW8RAK> Just read that some of the caps are polarised. Not mention in the construction notes. I bet I've got at least one round the wrong way.
[14:08] <GW8RAK> Around 20dB at 435MHz
[14:08] <GW8RAK> http://g0mrf.com/432LNA.htm
[14:10] <GW8RAK> At 850MHz the NF is only 0.4 dB which would be useful if anyone tries 868 (?) for the balloon downlink.
[14:10] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:10] <Laurenceb> voltage is way too high
[14:11] <Laurenceb> cant it be used with 3V if the bias is 3?
[14:11] <Laurenceb> looks like it needs at least 5V
[14:15] <GW8RAK> The spec sheet refers to running it at 3V
[14:16] <GW8RAK> The power requirement on the kit website refers to 7V and above as the kit includes a 5V regulator.
[14:17] <Laurenceb> guess ill have one more attempt with the RFMD ic before giving up
[14:17] <Laurenceb> ill try making a "dead buyg carrier board" with some fr4
[14:17] <Laurenceb> glue an ic upside down
[14:17] <Laurenceb> then i at least have a gnd plane
[14:23] <Laurenceb> managed to ~1/2 the amplitude of the oscillation by adding some copper tape sheilding
[14:23] <Laurenceb> but it doesnt look good
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> I have some copper tape. You can make fake PCBs with it
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Though the narrowest pitch I've tried this with was 0.1
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> On the other side of a ground plane
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> With good scissors you can cut strips ~0.5mm
[14:26] <Laurenceb> hmm the ting is it seems to need really good isolation of the output
[14:26] <Laurenceb> to avoid oscillation
[14:26] <Laurenceb> im looking to see if anyone stocks the eval board
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> This is the LNA?
[14:26] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> On a completely different tack - I was surprised to find that you can actually do a microwave oven with semiconductors with only ~10 actives.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> The 3G base-station FETs are surprisingly beefy
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Of course, it would be around 2000 quid.
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> But it would be lots larger inside.
[14:37] <Laurenceb> guess i could try the standard ham technique if ripping the copper off fr4 with a knife
[14:52] <GW8RAK> If I remember tonight, I'll have a look in one of my books about how to cure parasitic oscillations. There is a recommendation for the size of capacitors
[14:53] <Laurenceb> yeah, the thing is youre supposed not to have to resort to those tricks
[14:53] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[14:54] <Laurenceb> i suspect that if i dead bug on fr4 and add a tin sheet sheild it might work
[14:54] <GW8RAK> According to Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur, it is normal to get oscillation. Professional systems don't use dead bug techniques
[14:55] <Laurenceb> yes exactly
[14:55] <Laurenceb> as they are built PROPERLY
[14:55] <GW8RAK> Most of my projects don't work until I build them properly!
[14:56] <GW8RAK> The lash ups rarely work as expected.
[14:56] <Laurenceb> i think i can get a goodish approximation of the datasheet design
[14:56] <Laurenceb> just upside down
[14:58] <GW8RAK> I built a top band AM transmitter a few years ago. Ideal for 1.8MHz, 3.6, 5.4, 7.2, and so on. Unfortunately, the total ouput of all harmonics was more than the fundamental.
[14:59] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:59] <Laurenceb> ill try a fr4 hackup tomorrow - dont have any on my atm
[14:59] <Laurenceb> *me
[15:00] <GW8RAK> Plus a huge parasitic at about 140MHz. It was actually buzzing as well.
[15:00] <Laurenceb> if that downs work its custom pcb time :/
[15:12] <fsphil> GW8RAK: square wave? :)
[15:13] <GW8RAK> Initially just about everything known to mankind. A great learning experience.
[15:16] <fsphil> I tried to do HF from an AVR with a square wave going into an RC filter, but there was always too many harmonics
[15:16] <fsphil> all the way up to 70cm
[15:16] <fsphil> probably further too, but I've no radio to go higher :)
[15:23] <Laurenceb> the si4432 uses square wave
[15:23] <Laurenceb> the matching cicuit app notes might be worth a read
[15:26] <Laurenceb> lots of low pass and a lc to a terminating resistor
[15:43] <Laurenceb> other code is broken
[15:46] <GW8RAK> fsphil, as soon as I fitted a low pass filter, all the harmonics went and I had a nice sine wave
[15:48] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:48] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] <fsphil> excellent
[15:56] <fsphil> my filter was a simple resistor and capacitor -- probably all the wrong values
[15:57] <fsphil> actually I've been wondering if a low-pass filter on the input to the NTX2 would improve the signal quality
[15:57] <fsphil> 300hz for 300 baud
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> not 300hz
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> you want err times that, or you smudge the symbols
[16:09] <eroomde> yes you'd probably want a bit higher than that
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure what the value of err is.
[16:09] <eroomde> you know it has a LPF onboard before the VCO though right?
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> It probably depends on the exact order of the filter
[16:09] <eroomde> depends on the filter topology SpeedEvil
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that I meant
[16:09] <eroomde> beat me to it
[16:10] <eroomde> but still the cutoff freq is usually the 3dB point so you'd also have frequency spacing issues
[16:10] <fsphil> the onboard filter is like 15khz or something
[16:10] <eroomde> as the aplitude would be squashed
[16:10] <eroomde> amplitude*
[16:11] <fsphil> still leaves plenty of room for a 300 hz square wave to put out all sorts of noise
[16:11] <eroomde> honestly i'd have thought that there's very little noise on your pcb between 0 and 15khz
[16:11] Jasperw (~jasperw@93.89.81.29) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> If you 'bang-bang' - the frequency - then you get extra harmonics.
[16:12] <eroomde> fsphil: i think instead of a traditional low pass filter you might want to look at raised cosine filtering
[16:12] <eroomde> that's more optimal for baseband pulse shaping
[16:13] <eroomde> but it's complicated by the fact that you've got this VCO in the way which changes the maths a bit
[16:15] Action: SpeedEvil is not awake enough to remember how the spectrum of a FM signal will change with spectrum of the modulation fucnction.
[16:16] <eroomde> calculating fm spectrum usage is much harder and more hand wavy than other modulations. there's some numerical approximation function that people use but... it's all a bit beyond my area of knowledge
[16:16] <Laurenceb> theres raised cosine code on the wiki
[16:16] <eroomde> i could dig it out of my 3rd year notes
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> Don't bother :)
[16:17] <fsphil> from the receiving-it-in-ssb point of view, how would the harmonics show up?
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> You don't recieve it in SSB.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> The SSB radio acts basically like a SDR
[16:18] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> you get an undecoded unfiltered slice of the spectrum arounf 433MHz 3KHz or whatever wide
[16:18] slothear1 (~euclid@pool-96-249-157-79.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:18] grummund_ (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) joined #highaltitude.
[16:18] gm_ (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:20] <fsphil> yep, but I'm wondering how the baseband (that the proper term?) harmonics would appear on the waterfall for example
[16:20] <eroomde> My brain has issues trying to figure out exactly what's going on here with baseband pulse shaping into a VCO. It seems to be that this isn't something you'd want to do unless you really care about spectrum usage
[16:20] <eroomde> which i don't think you do
[16:21] <eroomde> it's not like you're trying to do frequency multiplexing down a single channel
[16:21] <fsphil> not really - I just wondered if it would make a cleaner signal, easier to receive at distance
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> I think 'bang-bang' - well - 15KHz filtered - modulation frequency - will mainly come out as 'hash' - outside the bandwidth of the 400Hz or whatever deviation
[16:21] <eroomde> yeah there must be some optimisation to be done
[16:22] <eroomde> but I'm not sure what it is
[16:22] <eroomde> i think wider spacing would certainly help
[16:23] <eroomde> as there is obviosuly some spectral leakege as the low pass filter output drifts from 1 to 0
[16:23] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) got netsplit.
[16:23] slothearn (~euclid@pool-96-249-157-79.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) got netsplit.
[16:23] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) got netsplit.
[16:23] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got netsplit.
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> So filtering will put a little more energy into the wanted modulation.
[16:23] <Laurenceb> when i looked at the numbers the best thing we could do would be to do dsss with psk
[16:23] <eroomde> dsss?
[16:23] <Laurenceb> by putting pulses of 3v directly into the ntx2
[16:23] <eroomde> spread spectrum?
[16:23] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[16:23] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:23] <eroomde> yaaarg
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> dsss locked to GPS
[16:24] <Laurenceb> or 3Khz or spread spoectrum
[16:24] <eroomde> you'll be flaying with fire thar
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Way under the noise.
[16:24] <eroomde> it's that a contradiction in terms?
[16:24] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:24] <Laurenceb> 50bps, 3khz
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - sort-of
[16:24] <Laurenceb> thats spread spectrum
[16:24] <Laurenceb> it gives you a big performance jump
[16:24] <eroomde> you wouldn't upset too many hamms if you did 1W spread spectrum across all of 434Mhz
[16:25] <Laurenceb> and is less tuning sensitive
[16:25] <eroomde> well, tey wouldn't notice
[16:25] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> If you had a software GPS, then it might be fun to just use 433 @1024 Hz dsss and ...
[16:25] <Laurenceb> a tad illegal
[16:25] <eroomde> espcially if you had some kind of gps-disciplined code hopping
[16:25] juxta (Bogaurd@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[16:25] <eroomde> illegal but The Perfect Crime
[16:25] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Just be a little satellite.
[16:25] Action: Laurenceb is very angry
[16:26] <Laurenceb> first my lna oscillates
[16:26] <eroomde> but yeah, raised cosine shaping would get more energy into the pass-band of the matched filters
[16:26] <Laurenceb> then...
[16:26] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/rGJVnQGk
[16:26] <eroomde> but there would have to be a corresponding optimisation as a function of the matched filter shape, if you see what I mean
[16:26] <Laurenceb> why wont that loop over the entire region
[16:26] <Laurenceb> <-rage
[16:26] <eroomde> i uess the clue is in the name - you want to match the filter to the symbol spectrum
[16:26] <eroomde> (back to FSK now btw)
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> And optimise the frequency spacing/baudrate
[16:27] <eroomde> yes
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> So you avoid ISI as much as possible
[16:27] <eroomde> but then if you're going to the effort, 2FSK is for wimps anyway
[16:27] <Laurenceb> we can agree on that
[16:27] <Laurenceb> mfsk64 is pretty awesome if you can get past the tuning issues
[16:28] <Laurenceb> i can get perfect copy when its vitually invisible
[16:28] <eroomde> DominoEX is pretty good too - it's a very nice design for 16FSK
[16:28] <Laurenceb> yeah - ive tried both
[16:28] <Laurenceb> mfsk64 has higher throughput
[16:33] <eroomde> hey guys, can you view this OK? https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en
[16:33] <eroomde> it's an extract from my masters thesis
[16:34] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got lost in the net-split.
[16:34] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) got lost in the net-split.
[16:34] slothearn (~euclid@pool-96-249-157-79.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) got lost in the net-split.
[16:34] gm (~gm@ppp241-139.static.internode.on.net) got lost in the net-split.
[16:34] <Laurenceb> need to sign in
[16:34] <eroomde> on a 'better' way of decoding FSK (or anything for that matter)
[16:34] <eroomde> try now https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en&authkey=CKT9hYYJ
[16:34] <eroomde> wondered what you thought
[16:35] <eroomde> once you have it I will try and give a handwavy explanation
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Sort of maximal likelyhood decoding?
[16:36] <eroomde> fazackerly
[16:36] <eroomde> for a given changepoint model
[16:37] <eroomde> or a practical application would be to keep the model constant and 'convolve' the incoming signal with it in real time
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Too complex for me today - I'm having a lazy day in bed, broken only by trudging up and down teh path carrying groceries and dustbins
[16:37] <GW8RAK> Looks brilliant to me. What language is it in? :)
[16:37] <eroomde> i say 'convolve' cos it gives ou the intuition, obviously it's not actually a convolution but instead finding the marginal posterior probability
[16:38] <eroomde> Laurenceb: what do you think? I will try and code up an alpha in python and see if i can shoe-horn it into working 'online'. It currently only works offline
[16:38] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a posterior ginglymus discriminator circuit.
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> It looks quite sane.
[16:39] <eroomde> but i seems to work better than matched filters and could allows us to really crank up the baud rate
[16:39] <eroomde> and still use amatuer radios and sound cards
[16:39] <Laurenceb> cant read it sorry
[16:39] <Laurenceb> dont have a googlverse account
[16:39] <eroomde> Laurenceb: one sec
[16:39] <Laurenceb> oh sorry
[16:40] <Laurenceb> can see it now
[16:40] <eroomde> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en
[16:40] <eroomde> oh ok
[16:40] <Laurenceb> looks promising - sorry im really busy atm
[16:41] <eroomde> ok, i might pick your brain about something later though
[16:41] <eroomde> see if it can be made to work with, say, 64FSK
[16:43] <fsphil> that would be neat -- image transfer in under a minute :)
[16:43] <eroomde> GW8RAK: it's annoying I know, academia takes a reasonably intuitive idea and encodes it into mathematcal symbols, making it much harder to understand. I've never understood why it's done this way
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Proof is _important_.
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: It's not about the idea, it's about prooving you are clever.
[16:46] <eroomde> but in a hand wavy way you take a bit of decoded audio telemetry, and then you take a bit of 'ideal' telemetry that you've made yourself, that represents say a jump from your mark frequency to your space frequency. then you line it up at the beginning of the deoced telemetry and do a bit of a proababilistic comparison that says 'how likely is it that this bit of signal is a noisy version of my ideal signal' and you get a proability out. then you move t
[16:47] <eroomde> and then the highest peak in this graph of probailities you just made is the most likely spot that you had a frequency jump
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you can even feed in other knowledge you have.
[16:47] <eroomde> which is what figure 9 is
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> For example, the format of a ASCII byte transmitted, or even the high bit of altitude, if you're going that far
[16:48] <eroomde> i would probably tend to black-box that kind of prior into a level high on the pyramid
[16:48] <eroomde> higher*
[16:48] <eroomde> i just want the jumps but yes of course you have a prior on the bit rate
[16:49] <eroomde> and you know about sync bits
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:49] <eroomde> fsphil: indeed, the idea behind this was to see if picture transmission could be sped up
[16:49] <eroomde> without massively upsetting the bit error rate
[16:50] <GW8RAK> eroomde, I have found in recent years, that I just can't be bothered to worry about pages of formulae. I suppose it's all about getting older. If I apply myself, I can understand most things.
[16:51] <fsphil> I have to admit, I find advanced maths quite scary
[16:51] <GW8RAK> These days I gloss over the maths and read and understand the text and the implications.
[16:51] <GW8RAK> I know that I'll never need to use that sort of maths again, so why bother? Lazy? Me?
[16:52] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) joined #highaltitude.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I'm at the point that I knew the maths once - and re-learning it would be substantially quicker, but ...
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> I remember most of the concepts - but anything much more advanced than derivation/integration/basic stats tends to cause a major sall.
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> stall
[16:53] <eroomde> hey, I understood it three monehts ago
[16:53] <eroomde> now I'd be hard pushed to do some of the derivations
[16:53] <eroomde> it goes
[16:53] <GW8RAK> You and me both SpeedEvil
[16:53] MoALTz (~no@92.8.25.126) joined #highaltitude.
[16:54] <eroomde> I always think engineers should be able to hire session mathematitians to come and do nasty symbolic integrations for them
[16:54] <eroomde> you basically know what the outcome is going to be, you just need someone to do the nasty algebra to prove it
[16:54] <GW8RAK> As a chemist, I always thought we could just hire engineers when needed.
[16:54] <eroomde> :)
[16:55] <eroomde> my integration is pretty shit. especially in my field, where you get these horrendous noise mixtures that always need integrating
[16:55] <eroomde> i'm lost at sea
[16:58] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host81-156-69-119.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:58] Action: SpeedEvil wishes for tame FEA people.
[16:58] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:58] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-212.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:09] <eroomde> fsphil: I will try and get this algorithm working nicely in real time and online
[17:09] <eroomde> maybe then i could consult you about making a brach of dl-fldigi to road test it?
[17:15] <fsphil> definitely
[17:16] <fsphil> I've been dabbling with making rtty a bit faster but not getting too far
[17:16] <fsphil> brb .. home time
[17:16] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3BABD.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc:
[17:16] fsphil (540cf08a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.12.240.138) left irc: Quit: 10 goto 10
[17:17] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3BABD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:20] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-212.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[17:24] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-212.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:30] WillieNL (~kvirc@unaffiliated/willie/x-000000001) joined #highaltitude.
[17:34] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) joined #highaltitude.
[17:34] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[17:35] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[17:35] chris_99 (~chris_99@87.115.190.19) joined #highaltitude.
[17:35] chris_99 (~chris_99@87.115.190.19) left irc: Changing host
[17:35] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[17:37] <fsphil> frosty outside already
[17:40] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-212.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[17:40] jasonb (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) joined #highaltitude.
[18:04] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) joined #highaltitude.
[18:24] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[18:43] DagoRed (~dago@j15-1.nat.iastate.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:43] laurence_ (~laurence@host86-140-94-108.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb_
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> hi
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> hi
[18:44] <Nigey> hey peeps
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> where was the pdf from eroomde ?
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> thats the protected one
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> - need to sign in - wasnt there another copy?
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en&authkey=CKT9hYYJ https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_aPQ320E8TwMGRiMjVmN2YtNjk5MS00MWI3LWJlY2UtYzhlOGZhMzAyYzI5&hl=en
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> were the two
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> ah - authkey
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> first one loads
[18:56] MoALTz (~no@92.8.25.126) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[18:56] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: my thesis
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[18:57] <eroomde> if it makes sense and isn't too stupid my question is: we compare the time series sound card data to an ideal frequency shift
[18:58] <eroomde> that's fine for 2FSK right. you have one from freq1 to fre2 and one from fre2 to freq1
[18:58] <eroomde> see which is the more likely (with a minimum threshold)
[18:59] <eroomde> but what happens for 64FSK? You can't possibly generate and evaluate all possible jump models - the space for that is enormous
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> 64 fsk wouldnt work well for ntx2 anyway
[18:59] <eroomde> enormous being the techical term for 64!
[18:59] <eroomde> sure but in principle
[19:00] <eroomde> so I was thinking about doing the evaluation with soem other basis function than time
[19:00] <eroomde> but i'm not sure what
[19:00] <eroomde> i'm just sort of thinking out loud here now
[19:00] <eroomde> need to get a working 2FSK implementation
[19:03] MoALTz (~no@92.8.25.126) joined #highaltitude.
[19:05] <eroomde> i guess the solution space isn't actualy exponential - you can only go to one of n-1 states from frequency x for nFSK
[19:05] <eroomde> still, that could be a large value of N and not everyone will have a graphics card with which to decode
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> so, how long is G in time?
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> 1 bit?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Umm
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Aren't you assuming ideal frequencyies
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Isn't it not 2 states, but infinite states
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: i got good results with a badly hacked DLL + FLL decoder in octave
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> used a partial decode in frequency time space then 2D fourier transform correlation to find the header
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> then initialised the FLL + DLL decoder on the header
[19:12] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: sure, 1 bit symmetrically about the freq jump would probably be optimal from an inference POV
[19:12] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: yes, you assume w1 and w2 are known
[19:12] <eroomde> but i mean that's not a big deal, you could marginalise them too
[19:12] <eroomde> or do something hueristic like a long window fft
[19:12] <eroomde> to get them
[19:13] <eroomde> FFTs are 'heuristic' when you're a beyesian disciple
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> fair enough
[19:13] <eroomde> but we have to make concessions to compuational cost
[19:13] Action: Laurenceb_ was just wondering if theyd count as heuristis
[19:13] <eroomde> :)
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> my hackish code outperformed fldigi by miles
[19:14] <eroomde> but yeah, from a strictly bayesian pov you'd marginilise w1 and w2, which is to say add another 2 nested loops to find the maximum likelihood of each. but that would probably murder you in computation cost
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> i used similar techniques to find the header only
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> then fll and dll tracking loops for the rest
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> but its was really badly written
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> as in no optimisation whatsoever
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> ill dump the folder if poss
[19:21] Action: Laurenceb_ realises his upload speed is hideously slow
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> slight change of topic - is there a fft algorythm for radon transforms?
[19:25] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[19:26] <Zuph> Good Afternoon #highaltitude
[19:27] <fsphil> hullo :)
[19:32] <Randomskk> any thoughts on whether a patch antenna would work for tracking balloons while driving?
[19:33] <Randomskk> you don't get the node directly up that you do with whips
[19:33] <Randomskk> and the directivity should be pretty much ideal, for the same reasons as they're good for GPS
[19:33] <Randomskk> sure it's a bit awkward at 434 but it seems like you could do it with some tin foil or something, car roof as a ground plane
[19:33] WillieNL (kvirc@unaffiliated/willie/x-000000001) left #highaltitude ("No matter how dark the night, somehow the Sun rises once again").
[19:34] <fsphil> how well (or not) does a vertical work?
[19:35] <fsphil> I've a small magmount for the car but it's never been used for chasing
[19:35] Action: Randomskk has used a magmount whip for chasing, it worked I guess?
[19:35] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-86-23-39-21.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:40] <eroomde> Randomskk: i get confused about polarisations and patches
[19:40] <eroomde> that's not a very helpful input
[19:40] <eroomde> but apparently they do have polarisations
[19:40] <eroomde> fsphil: yes, I must have done about 30 car chases using a mag mount
[19:40] <eroomde> works absolutely fine
[19:40] <eroomde> very well, infact
[19:41] <eroomde> unless you're directly underneath it...
[19:41] <eroomde> infact even then it was fine
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> And directly underneath it, the range is smaller
[19:41] <eroomde> 70cm is pretty quiet
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> especially when you're tracking it on the way down
[19:41] <eroomde> exactly - the range is about 30km max
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> If it's at 10km, even if you're 20dB down
[19:42] <eroomde> we've chased with loud and clear magmount reception with a horizontal range of about 150-200km before
[19:42] <eroomde> don;t have much anecdotal experience beyond that range. and no hard data
[19:42] <fsphil> I heard the signal from one of the cambridge launches with it, but i didn't have a computer to try decoding it
[19:43] <fsphil> hearing it isn't everything though
[19:43] <eroomde> a car roof makes an excellent ground plane infact
[19:43] <eroomde> so it's a pretty good setup
[19:43] <Randomskk> to be honest if you can hear it you really ought to be able to decode it
[19:44] <Randomskk> shame about fldigi really :P
[19:44] <fsphil> I've had a few occasions where it sounded fine, but didn't
[19:44] <Randomskk> indeed
[19:44] <fsphil> yea, could just be a bad modem :)
[19:44] <eroomde> yeah i'm sure we can do much better than fldigi
[19:44] <fsphil> or make fldigi much better
[19:44] <eroomde> hence the link i posted earlier about exactly that
[19:45] <Randomskk> when you say yours only runs offline, what do you mean?
[19:45] <eroomde> fsphil: indeed. the joy of oss
[19:45] <Randomskk> as in, it needs to know the entire time series first?
[19:45] <eroomde> Randomskk: it's a mathematical thing
[19:45] <eroomde> you need the entire data set before you start for 'offline'
[19:45] <eroomde> whereas 'online' means it can work iteratively
[19:45] <eroomde> or sequentially
[19:46] <Randomskk> right.
[19:46] <Randomskk> brb, dinner
[19:46] <eroomde> so there are things called particle filters, which are a kind of 'sequential monte carlo' which are online versions of monte-carlo techniques that one can udnerstand fairly easily. it's just making them work online requires a bit of work
[19:46] <eroomde> from a maths pov
[19:46] <eroomde> the programming of it is much for much
[19:47] <Randomskk> silly maths
[19:47] <eroomde> i know, right?
[19:47] <Randomskk> seriously. oh well
[19:47] <eroomde> and then once the maths works for run into the problem that the algorithm is O(n^7)
[19:48] <eroomde> infact that's a poor represenation - things like particle filters exist specifically because you can't realistically analytically solve these n^6+ problems
[19:49] <eroomde> if you've bumped into the kalman filter before, as i beleive you have, that's a specific kind of particle filter
[19:50] <eroomde> one where you assume gaussian noise, linear model dynamics, and are only interested in the maximum likelihood rather than a distribution
[19:51] <eroomde> it's a bit shitty that there's a cost of entry in terms of time spent studying some higher statistics to this branch of engineering, because it's really, really beautiful and conceptually quite simple
[19:52] <eroomde> and people who write wikipedia pages have no concept of explaining conceptually. they seem to rejoice in the formality of the maths
[19:52] <fsphil> ain't that the truth
[19:53] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_filter
[19:53] <eroomde> i mean look at that ^
[19:54] <eroomde> with a whiteboard i reckon I could easily explain to someone what's going on in ten minutes. but you look at that, *I* find that lots wildley intimidating even though in theory I understand it. It's just not designed for teaching
[19:54] <fsphil> all I see are scribbles
[19:56] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-86-23-39-21.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:56] <Randomskk> I see
[19:56] <eroomde> I might start a blog and write about some of this stuff
[19:57] <Randomskk> a lot of these things seem really really neat when you read the abstracts of papers
[19:57] <Randomskk> then you get to the body and it's just maaaaaaaths
[19:57] <Randomskk> like MUSIC
[19:57] <eroomde> ah music is a joy
[19:57] <eroomde> Randomskk: you do a linear algebra course this year i think
[19:57] <eroomde> if you haven't already
[19:58] <Randomskk> next term I believe
[19:58] <eroomde> read the paper again after that - promise it'll make a lot more sense
[19:58] <Randomskk> :P I plan to
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/flightexptscopytarbz21292356783.zip
[20:00] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: is that the thign>
[20:00] <eroomde> typing fail
[20:00] <eroomde> thing? *
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> my decoder stuff
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: all i see is jimmy staring at me
[20:01] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: a README explanation of what i've just downloaded could be useful :)
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> lol its not intended to be read by anyone apart form me
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> but i cant remeber what it all does now...
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> the graphs look pretty :P
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> test1.png is the semi decoded data - descriminator output in time frequency
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> icarushead is the header output
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> - header detector output
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> "this information is provided in the hope it may prove useful"
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> dlltest is the dll working.. or not
[20:07] <eroomde> ok thanks
[20:07] <eroomde> i will make a coffee and have a look
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> theres really not much to it
[20:08] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-86-23-39-21.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] <eroomde> fsphil: do you have a site/gallery with an explanation/photos of your digital picture encoding and modulation and demodulation scheme?
[20:32] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) left irc: Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish.
[20:38] jonsowman (~jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:47] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[21:06] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-86-23-39-21.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]
[21:13] slothear1 (~euclid@pool-96-249-157-79.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: Lost terminal
[21:23] <fsphil> eroomde, only a few notes on the wiki
[21:23] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[21:25] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[21:27] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:27] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.44) joined #highaltitude.
[21:28] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[21:28] <jcoxon> Hey
[21:28] <jonsowman> hows things?
[21:29] <jcoxon> Better today, Christmas shopping nearly done
[21:30] <jonsowman> heh
[21:30] <jonsowman> don't remind me.
[21:30] <Randomskk> oh god christmas shopping
[21:30] <Randomskk> sigh
[21:30] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:31] <jcoxon> Hehe. Single spree - job done
[21:31] <Zuph> Internet - job done :-p
[21:32] <jcoxon> Delivery risk in the UK
[21:32] <jonsowman> I can't wrap the internet
[21:32] <Zuph> Post that slow?
[21:33] <jcoxon> Amazon will :)
[21:33] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:33] <Zuph> heh
[21:33] <jcoxon> Zuph shame about the postponement
[21:33] <Zuph> jcoxon: Agreed. We bit off a big slice.
[21:33] <jcoxon> Best not rush though
[21:33] <Zuph> Honestly, we'd be ready by next weekend, but that's Christmas.
[21:34] <Zuph> And the Weekend following, New Years.
[21:34] <jcoxon> Haha
[21:34] <jcoxon> We get bank holidays after Christmas
[21:35] <Zuph> We'll Shelve this flight, and start working diligently on the next one.
[21:35] <Zuph> I'm surprised it took us this long to let the smoke out of something.
[21:36] <jcoxon> Yeah you were doing well
[21:36] <Zuph> I don't think I've ever heard Dan curse so violently :-p
[21:36] <jcoxon> Hehe, were you in the original team?
[21:36] <Zuph> Nope
[21:37] <Zuph> Aside from Dan, only one of the original guys is helping us out, and he's 200 miles away.
[21:38] <jcoxon> You guys are doing well, considering this is the biggest challenge in hab
[21:38] <Zuph> I am consistently amazed at the things that are coming out of this project.
[21:39] <Zuph> Someone offhandedly mentions that spot welding the batteries would be nice, and next week, someone has built a battery spot welder.
[21:39] <jcoxon> Awesome
[21:40] <jcoxon> Well the last zp was really good fun
[21:41] <Zuph> I bet :)
[21:41] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[21:41] <jcoxon> Shame that I can't get the Atlantic halo flight off the ground
[21:42] <jcoxon> We are just too spread out
[21:42] <jcoxon> Lack a hackspace
[21:42] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:43] <Zuph> Yeah, that's really the critical mass that allowed this to grow so quickly.
[21:43] <Zuph> Heh, our balloon crap is taking up more storage space than almost all the rest of it :-p
[21:44] <jcoxon> Hehe, that's the joy of ballooning
[21:44] <Zuph> With any luck, we'll crack this orbcomm nut, and make telemetry a nearly non-issue for similar future flights :)
[21:44] <jcoxon> So many different specialties
[21:44] <jcoxon> Not as much fun
[21:45] <jcoxon> We built dl-fldigi for this exact job
[21:45] <Zuph> heh
[21:45] <Zuph> That's true.
[21:45] <jcoxon> Really keen to see how it functions with hf
[21:45] <Zuph> And there are some things that HF is much better for
[21:46] MoALTz (~no@92.8.25.126) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:46] <Randomskk> like propagating? :P
[21:46] <Zuph> We don't expect much, if any, good telemetry from final descent over the sat. Similar issues for climb-out.
[21:48] <jcoxon> Ping eroomde
[21:48] <eroomde> jcoxon: yep
[21:49] <jcoxon> Shall I get some He
[21:49] <eroomde> leave it with me 24 hrs
[21:49] <eroomde> i might go to cam on thurs or fri
[21:49] <jcoxon> Oh okay
[21:49] <eroomde> in which case i will grab a cylinder
[21:50] <jcoxon> Awesome
[21:50] <eroomde> if i don't end up going i wioll tell you
[21:50] <jcoxon> No worries, no hurry really
[22:17] Guest95371 (richard_fr@5ac7da52.bb.sky.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> why has wikipedia gone back to the creepy banner
[22:25] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> someone burn his eyes out
[22:28] <Randomskk> there's a chrome plugin
[22:28] <Randomskk> that adds that banner to every single page in an appropriate position
[22:28] <Randomskk> fantastic
[22:29] Guest95371 (richard_fr@5ac7da52.bb.sky.com) left irc:
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> It is quite freaky
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> If you log in, you can hide it
[22:31] <chris_99> you can close it, and it'll remain closed
[22:32] jcoxon_ (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:32] <Randomskk> you can also donate, that hides it
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> i thought they had removed it as it was so bad
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> hadnt seen it for a while
[22:34] <chris_99> maybe they should hire a model instead ;)
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> pr0n banners
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> donate for more for free XD
[22:35] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[22:36] Action: LazyLeopard hadn't noticed the banner. Apparently it needs some sort of active scripting to work...
[22:39] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.44) left irc: Quit: Bye
[22:39] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Client Quit
[22:59] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:08] DrLuke (~luke@pD9E3BABD.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc:
[23:12] jcoxon_ (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:13] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[23:14] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:16] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[23:23] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[23:23] chris_99 (~chris_99@87.115.190.19) joined #highaltitude.
[23:23] chris_99 (~chris_99@87.115.190.19) left irc: Changing host
[23:23] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 15 2010