highaltitude.log.20101205

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[00:44] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
[00:45] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Experimental super-pressure balloon launch Sun 14:00 UTC from Worthing, UK - tracking welcome see: http://bit.ly/gaKdaK #atlasballoon #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/11219493900517376]
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[01:08] <Hibby> jcoxon: I'll try and track from Glasgow
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> Probably unlikely - it won't go high
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> So you won't have line-of-sigeht
[01:18] <jcoxon> Hibby, ooo i think you'll struggle - but thank you!
[01:18] <jcoxon> reckon it'll only get to 3000m
[01:18] <jcoxon> ratehr than the normal 30000m
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> Have you done burst pressure testing with a manowar?
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> err
[01:23] <SpeedEvil> manometer
[01:25] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, gosh no
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> For the party ones. To use actual numbers
[01:31] <Hibby> jcoxon: may be a tough one, but I'll be in the shack to give it a bash anyway
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> It may go higher
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[06:54] <shenki> juxta_: ping
[06:54] <juxta_> heya shenki
[06:54] <juxta_> how are you doing?
[06:55] <shenki> a bit wet. just got home from the cricket, which was called off due to the rain
[06:55] <juxta_> ahh, hehe
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[06:55] <shenki> how was your weekned?
[06:55] <juxta_> raining here too, down at hindmarsh island
[06:55] <juxta_> going well :)
[06:55] <shenki> cool
[06:55] <shenki> i was wondering if it's okay to send the Nut schematic and layout on to the lca guys
[06:56] <juxta_> oh, yeah
[06:56] <juxta_> sure, but be sure to explain it's not by any means a fancy design :)
[06:56] <shenki> no worries
[06:57] <juxta_> if you look at the schematic you'll see my hackish implementation of an SMA connector out of other components as i couldnt be bothered putting a footprint together to suit the connectors I had :)
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[07:04] <shenki> hah, nice work
[07:05] <shenki> doing footprints is the worst part of making PCBs, i think
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[07:33] <jcoxon> morning
[07:33] Action: jcoxon is not sure why he is up - 5hrs sleep seems to be enough today
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[09:33] <jcoxon> morning eroomde
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[09:35] <NigeyMoby> Meh
[09:36] <jcoxon> hi NigeyMoby
[09:36] <NigeyMoby> Morning jcoxon
[09:37] <fsphil> ello all
[09:37] <NigeyMoby> Morning Fsphil
[09:37] <jcoxon> hmmm my super light payload is actually quite heavy
[09:38] <NigeyMoby> Uhoh send it to slimming world!
[09:39] <jcoxon> had to swap gps modules
[09:39] <jcoxon> so now it weighs 107g
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[09:40] <NigeyMoby> Eek, which module u using now?
[09:40] <fsphil> what's the heaviest item?
[09:40] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:atlas:spatlas#mass
[09:41] <jcoxon> NigeyMoby, i've swapped to a SIRF II with embedded patch antenna
[09:41] <jcoxon> considering i made the payload between 01;00 and 02:00 this morning :-p
[09:41] <jcoxon> went for cheapness rather than light weight
[09:41] <jcoxon> as my GPS bee module only weighs 9g
[09:41] <jcoxon> but i'd rather get that back
[09:41] <fsphil> yea
[09:42] <fsphil> that battery is a right lump
[09:42] <NigeyMoby> Oo yeah
[09:42] <jcoxon> yeah i only have a 2000mAh
[09:43] <NigeyMoby> Send my fiance up pls, bloody mood she got up in :@
[09:43] <jcoxon> eek
[09:43] <NigeyMoby> Women grrr
[09:45] <jcoxon> i have this as well...
[09:45] <jcoxon> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/05w-solar-panel-55x70-p-632.html?cPath=104_107&zenid=20f7f6654c58d66430f0d915852c1323
[09:45] <fsphil> I've got some solar cells here but I bet it would weight more
[09:45] <jcoxon> 17g
[09:45] <fsphil> ah, read my mind
[09:46] <fsphil> well that's much better than these ones
[09:46] <jcoxon> now how could i avoid momentary power loss?
[09:47] <NigeyMoby> That's cool, but 17% efficency ?
[09:48] <NigeyMoby> Coin cell?
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[09:50] <jcoxon> i think batteries are a better option
[09:51] <NigeyMoby> You launching today?
[09:51] <jcoxon> yup
[09:52] <NigeyMoby> Oo I get to test the yagi
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[09:52] <fsphil> stupid internet
[09:52] <NigeyMoby> Unless it heads east
[09:52] <NigeyMoby> Lol wb Phil
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[09:54] <AndChat|> Grr
[09:54] <jcoxon> nope solar panel doesn't work
[09:54] Nick change: AndChat| -> Nigey
[09:54] <fsphil> wb Nigey ;-)
[09:55] <jcoxon> Nigey, unfortunately this will be a short range flight
[09:55] <jcoxon> its not a normal one
[09:55] <Nigey> Aw dam ::/
[09:55] <Nigey> Tnx Phil
[09:56] <fsphil> yea, unless there's a freak north-west wind we'll not receive this one
[09:56] <Nigey> Be interesting how far it goes j
[09:56] <jcoxon> global tuners have a radio in reading that could be used
[09:56] <jcoxon> i need mine for tracking so won't have a station setup
[09:57] <Nigey> Sweet!
[09:59] <Nigey> Do we still have that lovely horse shoe kink in the jetstream?
[10:00] <jcoxon> not right now
[10:00] <Nigey> Oh good no snow next week then lol
[10:01] <fsphil> it was raining here last night
[10:01] <Nigey> Unless we get that nasty easterly from syberia
[10:02] <Nigey> Here to. Loved it....lol
[10:18] <jcoxon> thinking about it - its probably best this is going out to sea
[10:26] <fsphil> the slow descent?
[10:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:33] <jcoxon> now if only i could get a listener on the other side...
[10:43] <fsphil> there are two radios in france on globaltuners
[10:45] <jcoxon> yeah quite far though
[10:45] <jcoxon> we should get good rx for quite a while
[10:46] <fsphil> doesn't do ssb anyway
[10:49] <jcoxon> now of course not getting a lock
[10:49] <jcoxon> not sure why they do this - damn gps modules
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[10:50] <ball> Daviey!
[10:51] <Daviey> ball: !
[10:51] <ball> It seems like you're everywhere I look. :-)
[10:52] <Daviey> lol
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[10:54] <eroomde> jcoxon: morning
[10:55] <eroomde> sorry was away earlier
[10:55] <jcoxon> hey eroomde np
[10:56] <jcoxon> hows the bread?
[10:57] <jcoxon> payload built
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[10:58] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5233614669/
[10:59] <eroomde> jcoxon: it's been a little over-retarded in the fridge so am giving it a few hours of pantry treatment
[10:59] <eroomde> reckon I may end up fridging it again till this evening though and baking tonight
[10:59] <eroomde> jcoxon: a thing of beauty. got the jiffy bag?
[11:00] <jcoxon> yeah, tight squeeze
[11:00] <jcoxon> total weight is 109g
[11:00] <jcoxon> the gps is heavy!
[11:02] <jcoxon> eroomde, so my plan is to go into town now and get 2 balloons
[11:02] <jcoxon> then head over to yours
[11:02] <jcoxon> for 12.30
[11:02] <jcoxon> does that work?
[11:03] <ball> Is that a thermistor sticking out the top?
[11:03] <jcoxon> photocell
[11:03] <jcoxon> had one lying around
[11:04] <ball> Is the data logged onboard as well as transmitted via telemetry?
[11:04] <jcoxon> ball, nah - this was rapidly put together early this morning
[11:04] <jcoxon> purely a test flight of a balloon concept
[11:04] <jcoxon> it isn't going to come back
[11:05] <ball> Are you at least sticking a return address label on it?
[11:05] <jcoxon> yes
[11:05] <jcoxon> its going to go in an envelope
[11:05] <jcoxon> :-p
[11:05] <ball> I hope you do get it back then.
[11:07] <jcoxon> okay bbiab
[11:07] <ball> jcoxon: Good luck with the Atlas balloon flight.
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[11:08] <eroomde> jcoxon: 12.30 is pefect
[11:08] <eroomde> any earlier and you'll get a pre-drink in :)
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[11:22] <SpikeUK> jcoxon - Good luck!
[11:24] <fsphil> the snow is melting
[11:24] <fsphil> noooooo
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[11:39] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[11:39] <jcoxon> eeek this isn't going to work
[11:39] <jcoxon> far less lift from the balloons then i expected
[11:40] <russss> less volume?
[11:40] <jcoxon> my balloons are from clintons
[11:40] <jcoxon> i wonder how much air they put in
[11:48] <jcoxon> okay flight cancelled
[11:48] <jcoxon> will need a rethink
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[11:51] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
[12:16] <Laurenceb_> you could refill
[12:16] <Laurenceb_> ooh hes gone
[12:16] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: good snow is melting XD
[12:17] <fsphil> nah, it's turned to ice -- the road is like a glacier
[12:18] <Laurenceb_> you can reflil the balloons with pure helium
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[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Maybe the balloon is heavier?
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dunnspace.com/isp.htm
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> 35 -44.880 1.442 ; HTP <- looks wrong to me
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_change_of_formation_%28data_table%29
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[13:06] <fsphil> nice big hot air balloon just went overhead: http://i.imgur.com/9EeiS.jpg
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> heh
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> what the heck... theres 4.2 caluries in a joule right?
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> *calories
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> A food calorie is a Kc though
[13:10] <Laurenceb_> well that ispcalc table multiples the joules by 4.3 to get calouries
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> yet it seems to work - also the table is from the usaf research lab, so youd think itd work
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[13:44] <Laurenceb_> well... im not 100% convinced im using ispcalc correctly.. but
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> im getting 330 seconds isp with htp and ethanol at 100psi
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> with a big nozzle at 1kpa ambient pressure
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> 2L drinks bottle rockoon!
[13:45] <russss> heh
[13:46] Action: SpeedEvil stabs Laurenceb for mixed units.
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> umm
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> that's what - 1000:1 output to throat?
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> Or 30:1 diameter
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> 10:1 diameter
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> i limited the area ratio
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough
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[13:48] <Laurenceb_> if you could make a 50 gram engine, its be capable of SSTO
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> I had interesting results with prototypes of electroformed engines
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> tho the drag might be an issue
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[13:48] <SpeedEvil> spin a thin liner, electroform the channels on top of it.
[13:48] Nick change: SpikeUK_ -> SpikeUK
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> ablative might be simpler
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> True
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> you can make it considerably heavier
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> and the burn off lightens it
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> I was IIRC considering using alcohol/H2O2 - as H2O2 has comparibility issues with everything electroformable.
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> ablative woudlnt work actually
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> as the burn time would be long - 100 seconds or so
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> It's a damn shame Ir/Rh is quite so expensive
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> A radiation cooled chamber/throat works well
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> not with a pet tank
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> tho i guess it has fuel in it
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> works out in the region of 10cm exit diameter
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> thats something like 1mm equivalent thickness of alu if you average over the engine wall
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> rather hard to do
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[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I was looking at that sort of thickness with electroforming
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> using a little carbon fibre formed in
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> electroforming aluminium isnt possible?
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> no
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> I was mostly resigned to Cu.
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> also CF doesnt help aiui due to the stiffness
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> Which is regrettably heavier
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> But for my app, heaviness wasn't so critical - due to 4 stages
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah, a 2 stage version of this would be easier
[14:02] <NigeyMoby> Did James launch?
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> no
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[14:04] <Laurenceb_> of course, attitude control is the big problem
[14:04] Nick change: AndChat| -> Nigey
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> thrust vectoring isnt to hard with micro servos, but working out the attituude
[14:10] <Nigey> Hm
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[14:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomas Saraceno <tomas@t-saraceno.org> "Re: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
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[14:29] <fsphil> designing pcbs isn't easy
[14:36] <eroomde> correct
[14:36] <eroomde> it's very iterative and evolving
[14:39] <fsphil> I should probably be using eagle
[14:39] <griffonbot> Received email: "Matthew Beddow" <matt.beddow@gmail.com> "RE: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
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[14:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomas Saraceno <tomas@t-saraceno.org> "Re: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
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[15:02] <Laurenceb_> its been resceduled?
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[15:07] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: yes
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[15:07] <eroomde> james and I are sitting here. not sure when it will fly
[15:08] <eroomde> need pure helium
[15:08] <eroomde> Clinton Cards don't do pure helium
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[15:12] <dia0z> I am brand new to ballooning, just considering giving it a try. Anybody in the hobby performing launches in a more northerly uk location ? Newcastle area.
[15:15] <Upu> close I'm in Yorkshire
[15:15] <Upu> as is Rob Harrison
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[15:16] <Upu> Rob is trying to get permission to launch from York
[15:18] <dia0z> I love to attend just to get a bit more knowledge. I stummbled upon an article on the sparkfun web site about ballooning then watched the David Stillman video, hooked !
[15:20] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin Sweeney <martin.sweeney@gmail.com> "Re: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
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[15:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Tomas Saraceno <tomas@t-saraceno.org> "Re: Atlas Super-pressure Launch tomorrow ~14:00 from Sussex"
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[15:55] <Laurenceb_> http://www.abbey-chemicals.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=92
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[15:56] <Laurenceb_> looks like enough to wake me up in the morning
[15:57] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:02] <eroomde> yo jcoxon
[16:02] <eroomde> long time no see
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[16:08] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah
[16:08] <jcoxon> ummm might have found a 130mAh lipo weighs 3.7g
[16:09] <eroomde> that might only give us like 3 hrs though
[16:09] <eroomde> but a few of them paralleled up...
[16:11] <jcoxon> and good powersaving
[16:11] <eroomde> yeah
[16:12] <eroomde> the ublox 5 modules can go down to about 20mA I think with careful cnfiguration of the settings
[16:13] <jcoxon> yeah
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[16:26] <dia0z> what alititude do the ublox modules work to ?
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> 50km or something crazy
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> iirc rf solutions used to do a gps module that was 14ma - seems to have been discontinued
[16:27] <jcoxon> if setup correctly that is
[16:27] <jcoxon> eroomde, in theory we could use a sirf
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> i have one hanging about - seems to be arm7 with a frotn end single conversion + adc
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> must be running some clever firmware
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[16:28] <dia0z> is the ublox the favoured choice
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> yes
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[16:29] <fsphil> in eagle, can a new part be made from an old part?
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[16:33] <dia0z> http://www.eaglecentral.ca/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=115805&S=fe15b803fb38834f4d363b1fa6f706ad
[16:35] <dia0z> something like this gps module ? http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9436
[16:43] <NigeyS> or you can go for the falcom
[16:44] <eroomde> Randomskk: ping
[16:45] <eroomde> jcoxon: yes, they're really good
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[16:48] <jcoxon> sirf is that?
[16:48] <NigeyS> Three Russian satellites have failed to enter orbit after they were launched on a rocket from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.
[16:48] <NigeyS> oopsie
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[16:59] <eroomde> oh cool. 2^6 users in the channel
[16:59] <jcoxon> hehe i've made a floating 868 repeater
[16:59] <NigeyS> hehe hey eroomde
[17:00] <NigeyS> jcoxon, make me a radio telescope while ure at it? :p
[17:00] <jcoxon> hehe i'm not joking :-p
[17:00] <jcoxon> its floating around my room
[17:00] <NigeyS> lmao you crazy guy!!
[17:00] <jcoxon> and echos back what you transmit
[17:01] <NigeyS> video or it didnt happen! lol :D
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[17:03] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: hows it working?
[17:03] <jcoxon> its a rfbee from seeedstudio with the tx/rx tied + a 130mAh Lipo
[17:03] <jcoxon> and 2 mylar balloons
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> oh clever
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> how are you doing the repeating?
[17:04] <jcoxon> well the tx and rx are joined
[17:04] <jcoxon> so it just bounces it back
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> simple
[17:05] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5235075424/
[17:05] <jcoxon> and cause the gas in the balloon is rubbish its only just bouyant
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> cant you replace it?
[17:06] <jcoxon> sure if i had some
[17:06] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> lol happy birthday
[17:06] <NigeyS> pmsl nice 1 jcoxon !
[17:06] <jcoxon> was going to add a led but i think that will be too much weight
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> can you make it send a ping?
[17:06] <eroomde> :)
[17:07] <NigeyS> what's the max weight you can get away with on those ?
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> id imagine you could sellotape (or better - kapton) those balloon necks closed
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> so you could cut them off and refill
[17:08] <jcoxon> haha i trimmed of 3cm of ribbon
[17:08] <jcoxon> and its now positive
[17:08] <jcoxon> and is moving around i guess following the convection from the radiator
[17:09] <NigeyS> reminds me of them flying tiny robot things in batteries not included lol
[17:09] <jcoxon> NigeyS, not sure - depends on what it would be like with proper helium
[17:10] <NigeyS> good point, what was the mix you ended up with today ?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: got gas?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> natural
[17:10] <jcoxon> not sure, but they should have more lift then they do
[17:10] <NigeyS> bah :(
[17:10] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, not avaliable
[17:11] <jcoxon> NigeyS, don't worry eroomde and i are on the case
[17:11] <NigeyS> yey :D!
[17:11] <NigeyS> http://www.mtmscientific.com/radiotelescope.html im going to try this 1 day :D
[17:11] <jcoxon> right will be back later
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[17:12] <SpeedEvil> NASA has some awesome results with balloon telescopes.
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Destroying cars.
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[17:12] <NigeyS> lol
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[17:16] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:18] <SpeedEvil> o
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[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[17:21] <SpeedEvil> ok
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah mine too
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> after the shock I just had
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> a lightning bolt shot from my ceiling lamp
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> odd!
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> of course the fuse took the PC and the router with it
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> any demons about?
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> :P
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the Glitch!
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:24] Action: Laurenceb_ was looking at optimal stage sizes
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[17:24] <Laurenceb_> im obsessed with space launch :D
[17:24] <eroomde> oooh chrome on mac now has a native pdf viewer
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:24] <eroomde> happy days!
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I recommend a pork pie
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> interestingly the upper stage needs to have dry mass ~ the payload
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Not prone to bits floating off, and tasty.
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> explains why so many upper stages are so small
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> heh
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[17:28] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - 'dead' mass on the last stage really hurts you
[17:29] <DagoRed> Words of truth http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
[17:31] <Randomskk> eroomde: pong
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[17:38] <eroomde> Randomskk: was wondering what the state of the test rig data logger is?
[17:38] <Randomskk> not much further than having wired up a load cell with a connector really
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> test rig?
[17:40] <Randomskk> static test rig for the rocket motors
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> ah sweet
[17:40] <Laurenceb_> good to see theres some rocket work still underway :D
[17:41] <Randomskk> eroomde: also found a potentially useful pressure sensor on farnell but they are really quite expensive so haven't ordered yet
[17:41] <Randomskk> not sure how to do the tubing from that to inside. or how to do the temperature stuff atm
[17:42] <Randomskk> otherwise the plan is probably an mbed for its easy ethernet, then some external ADCs to read the temperatures, load cells and pressure. haven't picked an adc yet. fergus has found a nice looking amplifier that would work for the frontend
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[17:44] <eroomde> Randomskk: h'ok
[17:44] <eroomde> ta
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[18:04] <Laurenceb_> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FfkgwPNm3uA/S92QR_mVvvI/AAAAAAAAGiE/amkq0ItGw2c/s1600/a.jpg
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> ^ that seems a pretty sensible idea for rockoon launch
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[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I'm reminded of the space-frame HOTOL launcher. http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/dude-builds-the-worlds-slowest-porsche.html
[18:27] <Laurenceb_> thats epic
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> I love that a main structural component is packing tape.
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> its pretty strong
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> PET bottles are also surprisingly strong - 50grams for a 2L bottle that'll take 150psi
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> hard to do that with aluminium
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Coke cans
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> But PET isn't bad at all.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Sure - considered in raw structural numbers it's not that great - but it's the blow-moulding
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> the lamp with the flash smells burnt
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah - orientates the molecules
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[19:06] <Laurenceb_> a pet bottle based rocket with peroxide ethanol then a spin stabilised solid solid is easy as far a mass goes
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> like black arrow
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> a pain to build
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> but its kind of crazy that it works
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Black_Arrow_satellite_deployment.jpg
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> didnt you find a source of peroxide speedevil?
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> I don't have the email archive to hand - png me tomorrow
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> 96% IIRC
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> but you needed to order 300l at a time
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> in some ways sounds easier to deal with than solid rockets
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> The testability is nice
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[19:19] <Laurenceb_> i meant regulatory
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Black_Arrow.jpg <- i like how you cant even see the flames
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> ah - yes
[19:24] <russss> anti-hotlinking on that
[19:24] <russss> I never knew we managed to launch a satellite. Clearly I didn't read the info at the science museum because I was so busy looking at the rocket
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> a H2O2 drive is rather weak though
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> H2O2 monopropellant is.
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> H2O2/Kero or something isn't really
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> The high density of the H2O2 is really good for sectional densiry
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> ty
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> And for small vehicles - you really care abou tthat
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> that it
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> *is true
[19:31] <eroomde> here's an interesting thing. for super pressure balloons of about 10m diameter and a low number of gores (say 16), a sphere turns out to be about the most efficient cutting pattern
[19:31] <eroomde> rather than the oblate pumpkin style that nasa use of the larger scales
[19:32] <eroomde> which is also quite a lot easier to make
[19:33] <NigeyS> lolbleh online grocery shopping is no fun :(
[19:34] Action: SpeedEvil is online grocery shopping only.
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Works for me.
[19:35] <NigeyS> i dont mind sometimes but when you get to £180 and the dumb software resets your basket it makes me want to cry :/
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Which one?
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I've never had asda or tesco do that.
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> asda is nice in that it lets you add stuff to your basket even when not logged in
[19:38] <NigeyS> asda..lol
[19:39] <NigeyS> so i'm switching to tesco now grr
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> lol?
[19:40] <NigeyS> and if tescos screws up im sending the mrs out for it hah!
[19:49] <NigeyS> well i never knew there were 66 types of mayonaise :|
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> It gets a hell of a lot less painful when you've done it once
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> As you can simply go down your favourites list.
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Also - IIRC if you have a loyalty card - you can generally import it and get that into your favourites list
[19:55] <NigeyS> oo im gonna get a clubcard then, i find the twice we did it with asda we ended with alot of low date stuff when we ordered fresh food :(
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde do you work on superpressure balloons?
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> £180 on food
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> thats crazy :P
[20:02] <gb73d> u go to asda once a week and play with the pricing teams i even take a calc
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: i thought the point of the pumpkin was so you could use high tensile strenght ribbons
[20:02] <gb73d> whats the best beer deal etc
[20:02] <gb73d> alwasy work out the unit cost
[20:03] <NigeyS> gb73d, now thats a plan!
[20:03] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_, this is only a 3 week shop :| the xmas shopping will be a knightmare :(
[20:03] <gb73d> sometimes eg budd is dirt cheap most of the year its pricey
[20:04] <gb73d> i stock up on it when its cheaper
[20:04] <gb73d> think i got 20 cans during world cup
[20:04] <NigeyS> my dad often does that, gets the xmas beer in like.. october or something silly like that
[20:04] <gb73d> its worth it
[20:04] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: seems not to be the case at this scale with about 500Pa differential
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> imo MIR balloons like CNES have built look very promising
[20:05] <eroomde> there's a very good paper on optimising cutting patterns by Pellegrino et someone
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> sounds like a worthwhile read, thanks
[20:05] <eroomde> I'll find the link
[20:06] <eroomde> http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/dsl/publications/Optimization%20pumpkin%20balloons%20SMALL.pdf
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> i did some numbers on the passive IR design, as it could be made about 5m diameter and work
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> aha .dvi - i detect use of latex
[20:07] <eroomde> probably wouldn;t be worth readig if it wasn't done in latex
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> the cued tutorials are excellent btw - i also have the savetrees stylesheet
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> :P
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde do you know the first big success of the superpressure balloon?
[20:08] <eroomde> nope
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> the "Endeavour" by Julian Nott
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> first crossing of Australia by balloon
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> heh figure 1 - b doesnt look good
[20:10] <eroomde> http://publications.eng.cam.ac.uk/938/
[20:10] <eroomde> i will try and get that ^
[20:10] <eroomde> Calledine really rings a bell...
[20:10] <eroomde> Calladine*
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:10] <eroomde> oh he taught us a amino-acid structural mechanics elective. really interesting (old!) guy
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> I am in contact with Nott
[20:11] <eroomde> seemingly obscure topic but really interesting
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> he is a great person
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nott.com/Pages/record_australia.php
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:16] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2010/12/05/hot-resistors-used-for-color-changing-clock-face/
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> ^ genius
[20:16] <Randomskk> so cool
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> i initally thought they were glowing red hot
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately the graphite tends to burn off it you do that, but it lasts long enough to cut nylon cord
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> i tried smd resistor cutters the solder melted before the nylon cord
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[22:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090178931 <-interesting
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[22:34] <DrLuke> Does anybody know about a source that explains how orientation estimation by using a 3-axis accelerometer and 3-axis gyro works?
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> i put a bit of info up on the wiki
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> i did have a bunch of good papers on the theory.... cant seem to find them :S
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[22:47] <Laurenceb_> someone at some university in sweden had published a really good masters thesis explaining all the theory, but i cant find it :(
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[22:58] <Laurenceb_> site seems to have dissapeared, sorry :(
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> but http://forums.openpilot.org if you want to jump right in at the deep end - they are doing it the totally hardcore way
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> oh well, good luck, im off
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[00:00] --- Mon Dec 6 2010