highaltitude.log.20101204

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[10:01] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[10:02] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon
[10:02] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[10:08] <jcoxon> Morning
[10:08] <jcoxon> Received a gpsbee ublox module
[10:09] <jcoxon> Really tiny and less exposed then the fsa03
[10:13] <Upu_> Well I've set back as I've had a soldering accident with my GPS chip
[10:13] Nick change: Upu_ -> Upu
[10:13] <Upu> morning
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[10:22] <fsphil> same chipset as the fsa03?
[10:26] <jcoxon> Pretty much the same, ublox 5
[10:27] <jcoxon> Requires a patch antenna
[10:28] <fsphil> ah, separate antenna is probably a good thing
[10:29] <jcoxon> Yes, and an okay pin out footprint as its the same as a xbee
[10:30] <jcoxon> Will power it up this evening, might order some more from seeedstudio if anyone wants to join in on the order
[10:30] Action: fsphil ++
[10:34] <fsphil> what's the plug on the antenna? I think I've got one floating about somewhere
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[10:41] <jcoxon> Umm u.flu or something like that
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[10:55] <fsphil> hopefully as inaccurate as +7 day predictions usually are: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a3a959cf2a09ca3e5225d6110391ce2ac6b166a4
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[10:57] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
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[10:58] <fsphil> oh, thanks for merging that stuff jcoxon -- what issues did you have?
[10:58] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: griffonbot #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/11011461220409345]
[11:02] <jcoxon> Oh just had to run fluid
[11:03] <jcoxon> Before it would compile
[11:04] <fsphil> odd
[11:26] <fsphil> I've made a branch with a small change that would allow tim to use the * character in place of the #
[11:27] <fsphil> but restricted it to --hab mode
[11:28] <jcoxon> Okay
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[11:30] <Laurenceb_> Melt evil snow melt!
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[11:34] <Laurenceb_> its vert slowly melting... but its going to take ages at this rate :(
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[11:41] <Laurenceb_> icicle just came off the roof and embedded itself in the window sill :/
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[11:43] <Laurenceb_> something to watch out for - could really mess up someones head
[11:56] <fsphil> noticed a few places where it was melting
[11:56] <fsphil> though some more snow is forecast later in the week
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTxMbda-j4Q
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> health and safety overkill? armadillo wear jeans and tshirts around their hydrogen peroxide vehicle
[12:02] <fsphil> getting there: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070223021344/farscape/images/7/7b/Farscape_one.jpg
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> oh god not that
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> worst si-fi series ever
[12:03] <fsphil> ah man, it was great! well, series 2 + 3 anyway
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> well it started ok ish, then got rapidly worse
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.noelhodson.com/index_files/foodtubes-project-team.htm
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[12:35] <Laurenceb_> http://www.noelhodson.com/index_files/Foodtubes-pipelaying-1dec09.pdf
[12:35] <Laurenceb_> ^ lol at page 2
[12:40] <MoALTz> Laurenceb: around their vehicles empty sure. but when you watch (early... they no longer use peroxide) videos of them dealing with live rockets it's always in plastic overalls
[12:40] <MoALTz> *early videos
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> oh fairdoos
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> that foodtubes thing is kind of smart... but the pdf is soo bad
[12:46] <MoALTz> is there any reason why liquid-fueled rockets aren't really here in the uk?
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> because theres no-one prepared to launch one
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> no uk government launch program
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> and no private companies
[12:47] <MoALTz> no amateurs that do it?
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[12:48] <MoALTz> i know they're a bit difficult, but they don't seem to have the legal issues that solids have
[12:48] <MoALTz> and can have higher performance than hybrids
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> aiui there arent really any amateurs anywhere flying liquids
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[13:15] <SpeedEvil> I have some plans for a liquid rocket - but they are not more advanced than a few sheets of A4 alas.
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> when i did the numbers for an n prize launcher it looked possible to do orbit with two stages of off the shelf cesaroni reloads
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> not sure if its the best plan tho - it seems easy, but liquid rocket design is easier in some ways
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> designing the ablative nozzles is a bit of a pita
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> theres so many trade offs depending on burn time, chamber pressure, fuel composition etc
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah - solids don't scale much.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Well - tey do
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> looking at some data from Sutton and some nasa papers it looked to me like a graphite throat insert was best
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> but are not as easy at large scales.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> you can't buy large reloads
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> but then when i looked at some used cesaroni nozzles, they had ablated less than expected
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> but i was extropolating down to smaller scales from the nasa data
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> so it looks like fully ablative nozzles would work
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> well - burn time decreases with smaller motors so you need thinner ablative
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> so to a certain extent its scale invariant
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> but ablatives ablate faster to start with, before stabilising with a char region
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> that means the ablative mass decreases with larger motors
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> another problem with solids is cooling of the exhaust by conduction to the nozzle etc, but that only seems to become really significant below 200grams fuel mass, which is considerable less than the n-prize opper stage
[13:36] <Laurenceb_> but you have that issue with cooled liquid fueled nozzles to an even greater extent
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> rant ++ :P
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> And lack of restability iof course
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> test
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah, the reloads are expensive, and have to be glued inside the CF casing which is damaged by heat after firing
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> cesaroni have tons of good test data, and it matches suprisingly well with the theory is Sutton
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> *in
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[15:28] <Hibby> is it just me or is the website down?
[15:29] <Gnea> which website?
[15:30] <Hibby> ukhas.org.uk
[15:30] <Gnea> working fine here
[15:32] <DanielRichman> Hibby: is it still not working for you?
[15:35] <Hibby> yep... give me a min I'll try checking via one of my servers
[15:36] <Hibby> appears to be just me, and two servers. Odd.
[15:37] <Hibby> nope, now working via the servers. Oh well!
[15:37] <Hibby> never mind, just my poor mobile connection
[15:37] <DanielRichman> ok, cool
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[15:58] <fsphil> cool: http://teravolt.org/Laser_Microscope.htm
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[16:03] <MoALTz> if that's not fake then it could be quite useful
[16:04] <fsphil> I'm gonna try it later
[16:05] <fsphil> though my laser is only 50mw
[16:05] <russss> I love the cat in the video
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[20:11] <NigeyS> quiet in here tonight
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> *loud noises*
[20:12] <NigeyS> hehe ello laurence
[20:15] <eroomde> I have just chopped some weapons-grade chillys then went for a slash without washing my hands in between. I am *such* an idiot
[20:15] <NigeyS> owwwwww owwwww owwwwwwww i think maybe called for!
[20:17] <eroomde> agreed
[20:17] <eroomde> not much to be done
[20:17] <eroomde> glass of sherry I think
[20:18] <NigeyS> :D nice hot coffee here while i help a friend who's had a server compromised, dam script kiddies
[20:18] <eroomde> happy saturday night!
[20:18] <eroomde> i was going to a party in london but our awesome trains...
[20:19] <eroomde> so I'm baking
[20:19] <NigeyS> lol better than freezing ure ass off on a train platform!
[20:20] Action: Laurenceb_ has been stuck for 3 days
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> finally defrosted a bit now
[20:20] <fsphil> we seem to have got off pretty lightly
[20:21] <NigeyS> warmed up here today, a whole 3 drgrees! :D
[20:21] <fsphil> yay
[20:21] <fsphil> worst thing about that, is it'll melt slightly then freeze again
[20:21] <fsphil> ice is worse than snow
[20:21] <NigeyS> yup, deadly roads and pavements, yay :/
[20:24] <fsphil> good weather for seeing some wildlife
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> with the council flats next door i can do that every day
[20:25] <NigeyS> yeah, like my cat, who refuses to go outside in this weather! lol
[20:26] <NigeyS> lol laurenceb_
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking of putting up a pay per view webcam a while back when i was living next to a sheltered housing place for druggies
[20:27] <NigeyS> haha oh dear
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[20:33] <fsphil> yikes.. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=58aa6a8617e8397460d54d463406691482be6a8d
[20:33] <fsphil> that's a strong breeze
[20:34] <russss> nice
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> express delivery to banbury
[20:36] <NigeyS> crikey, get running phil lol
[20:36] <fsphil> sods law says it would land in one of those two rivers
[20:42] <fsphil> or overshoot and land in the north sea ... seems to be a popular destination or hab missions
[20:42] <fsphil> +f
[20:46] <NigeyS> north sea has a latex fetish? :|
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[20:48] <fsphil> scary thought
[20:50] <fsphil> maybe it just wants its oil back
[20:50] <NigeyS> lol
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[20:56] <NigeyS> hey jcoxon
[20:59] <jcoxon> evening
[21:01] <NigeyS> those headers got to you yet ?
[21:03] <eroomde> hi jcoxon
[21:04] <jcoxon> not yet
[21:06] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[21:17] <NigeyS> bloody snail mail
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[21:24] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
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[21:39] <jcoxon> hmmm i was going to suggest if anyone wanted to we could try and do a super-pressure flight tomorrow
[21:39] <jcoxon> but the winds are aren't great
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[21:40] <jcoxon> off towards france
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[21:43] <fsphil> super-pressure?
[21:43] <jcoxon> yes!
[21:43] <jcoxon> using mylar party balloons
[21:43] <fsphil> aaah
[21:43] <fsphil> one big one or lots of small ones?
[21:44] <jcoxon> depends on hte payload i guess
[21:45] <fsphil> (wikipediaing)
[21:45] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:atlas:spatlas
[21:45] <jcoxon> i've been brainstorming
[21:46] <fsphil> how long could one of these things stay up for?
[21:46] <fsphil> ooh
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> I dunno how much they leak
[21:46] <fsphil> this is what they've been using in the Antarctic for those long duration missions isn't it
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> It sounds logical.
[21:47] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah but properly
[21:52] <fsphil> I don't think the winds are improving anytime soon
[21:59] <jcoxon> true
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> they can fly at ground level for a few days
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> so...
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> i dunno :P
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> I suppose that at equlibrium the pressure on the envelope will be quite high
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> it might burst
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Even if you've got a very small lift - say 0.25m/s
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> At sea level
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> guess its a matter of how much excess lift
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> but, if you have little excess lift, its going to lose bouyancy soon
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> well...
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> ballast lol
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> It will depressurise quite fast
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> But if it's got excess lift, then it willl still be less dense than the air at this point
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> So it won't come down until it deflates, or air diffuses in.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Or I may be confused.
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[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I forget - a while back did you say you'd found a source of those little one-axis mirrors cheap?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> the resonant ones
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> Ti make some largeish ones for ~£100
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> mouser and Ti stock them
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> then theres 2 axis mems ones - electrostatic and smaller
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Ok - slightly different definitions of cheap occurred. :)
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> not sure on prices, probably more
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering about a cheap laser light type thing.
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[23:28] <eroomde> jcoxon: yo
[23:30] <jcoxon> hey
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.kitesite.com.au/kiterecord/html/the_record_.html
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> that record looks worth a shot
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> well the multiple kite record at any rate
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[00:00] --- Sun Dec 5 2010