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[00:21] <fsphil|m> grr, c++
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[00:23] <NigeyMoby> Nero
[00:23] <NigeyMoby> Ooops
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[00:24] <NigeyMoby> Dumb phone
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[00:41] <vk5gr> Darkside - are you at gh's yet?
[00:41] <natrium42> o/
[00:43] <NigeyMoby> Hey natrium, vk5gr
[00:43] <natrium42> yo NigeyMoby
[00:43] <natrium42> how is life?
[00:44] <NigeyMoby> Not bad dude, u?
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[00:46] <natrium42> pretty good
[00:47] <natrium42> NigeyMoby: any launches planned?
[00:48] <natrium42> i wonder when horus 11 pics will appear :)
[00:48] <NigeyMoby> None of my own till march, think there's a couple on the weekend though.
[00:48] <natrium42> cool
[00:48] <natrium42> who?
[00:50] <NigeyMoby> willduckworth is 1, can't remember the other
[00:51] <NigeyMoby> I'm assuming its horus 12 they're launching tonight?
[00:51] <vk5gr> Horus 12 is due up in about an hour
[00:51] <vk5gr> saw one of the crew in the area collecting things about 10 minutes ago
[00:52] <NigeyMoby> Awsome, 3 launches in 2 weeks
[00:52] <vk5gr> not sure when horus 11 pics will/can be released
[00:53] <natrium42> juxta is crazy :D
[00:53] <NigeyMoby> Ah the photo guy wants to get exclusive prolly
[00:54] <vk5gr> it;'s up to the artist as I understand it - it was his payload we flew
[00:55] <NigeyMoby> Ohh fair enough, look forward to seeing them at some point.
[00:58] <vk5gr> off too a meeting - sitting at work observing today from afar - couldnt get the day off to go flying - zsn is heading back from Terry's now so the boys should be setting up shortly
[00:59] <NigeyMoby> Okies, have fun dude!
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[01:16] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: Balloon Filling... #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6878684539518976]
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[01:19] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: No live stream today guys, net connection is too flaky. #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6879464260632577]
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[01:50] <natrium42> Darkside, so.. when's launch?
[01:50] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[01:50] <Laurenceb> lots of extra stuff XD
[02:20] <natrium42> lol, the altitude graph for horus looks like a pulse
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[02:31] <shenki> we
[02:31] <shenki> re about to take the full balloon outside
[02:31] <shenki> it's huge :)
[02:31] <natrium42> how many grams balloon?
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[02:33] <shenki> 2kg
[02:34] <natrium42> coolz
[02:34] <natrium42> good luck with the flight
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[02:35] <shenki> cheers
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[02:41] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: Balloon being moved out to launch field. #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6900114832490496]
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[02:44] <griffonbot> @shenki: Prep for launch http://yfrog.com/b5llzij #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/shenki/status/6900852396662784]
[02:46] <griffonbot> @shenki: http://yfrog.com/dyd91vj #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/shenki/status/6901492166434816]
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[02:55] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: Launch! #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6903615813849088]
[02:55] <Darkside> woot
[02:55] <Darkside> wat an awesome launch
[02:57] <griffonbot> @shenki: Launched! http://yfrog.com/gojh0cj #arhab #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/shenki/status/6904046774394881]
[03:01] <natrium42> reposting pix to tracker
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[03:05] <vk5gr> up up and away!
[03:05] <natrium42> :)
[03:05] <vk5gr> I hate work - wish I was there!
[03:05] <natrium42> hehe, you can still follow it
[03:06] <vk5gr> yes - but it isnt the same!
[03:15] <Darkside> hehe
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[03:21] <shenki> launch was great. lots of pull on the line, esp when it gusted
[03:21] <shenki> had lots of people holding the line, letting it go in stages
[03:21] <shenki> juxta ran along with it and threw it up in the end
[03:22] <natrium42> :)
[03:22] <natrium42> more pix s'il vous plait
[03:22] <shenki> there's lots of cameras around,but i imagine most of the pics will go up later
[03:26] <vk5gr> when should the predicted landing zone start to update darkside?
[03:29] <Darkside> uhmm
[03:29] <Darkside> no idea
[03:29] <Darkside> its updating for me
[03:30] <shenki> i like turtles
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.deagostini.com.au/ilovehorses/
[03:38] <jiffe99> hah
[03:38] <jiffe99> I need to get the audio from that page
[03:55] <Darkside> ok
[03:55] <Darkside> hey all
[03:55] <Darkside> we're all ehading to the predicted landing site at the moment
[03:56] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: All chase cars on the way to the predicted landing area. #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6919107530203136]
[04:24] <vk5gr> it's goping up like a rockwet ship!
[04:24] <Darkside> haha
[04:24] <Darkside> yeah
[04:24] <Darkside> too fast really
[04:24] <Darkside> it might burst earlier than we thought
[04:25] <Darkside> we're just gettin fuel, then we'll head over to where adrian is
[04:28] <vk5gr> BURST BURST BURST
[04:28] <vk5gr> it burst early
[04:54] <vk5gr> oh oh - it is heading for the river murray!
[04:54] <zebedee> gloop!
[04:56] <vk5gr> ahhh it is back on the western side again
[04:59] <natrium42> it's landing in one of those crop circles
[05:00] <natrium42> bull's eye
[05:02] <vk5gr> I hope the sprinklers arent turned on
[05:04] <natrium42> guh, it's drifting off "target"
[05:04] <natrium42> HAB darts
[05:13] <vk5gr> congrats on a successful flight
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[05:20] Nick change: DagoRed -> kd0mto
[05:28] <natrium42> hehe, they have carried it to the cars
[05:30] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: Balloon Landed & Retrieved! #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6942535888928768]
[05:30] <Darkside> ok
[05:30] <Darkside> it landed in between a group of cows
[05:30] <Darkside> all good tho
[05:31] <natrium42> why is everybody fleeing?
[05:31] <Darkside> we're hweading back
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[05:32] <Darkside> heading*
[05:32] <natrium42> also pix plz
[05:32] <natrium42> :)
[05:32] <natrium42> great launch
[05:32] <Darkside> the balloon has landed, its just that its in the back of vk5zsn's car
[05:32] <Darkside> and is still being received
[05:32] <Darkside> oh nvm
[05:33] <Darkside> i think they've stpped
[05:33] <Darkside> i mean stopped uploading data
[05:33] <natrium42> hahaha
[05:33] <natrium42> aww
[05:34] <Darkside> i'll leave my chase tracker on all the way back
[05:34] <Darkside> so adrian and whoever can see where we are
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[05:44] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: Heading back to launch site. #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6946234375868416]
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[05:54] <griffonbot> @projecthorus: 33767m Maximum Altitude #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/projecthorus/status/6948642233516032]
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[06:50] <jcoxon> wow another launch!
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[07:02] <natrium42> :)
[07:02] <natrium42> juxta & co are productive
[07:03] <jcoxon> they are
[07:03] <jcoxon> wish i could launch that often
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[09:38] <NigeyMoby> Morning
[09:38] <jonsowman> morning
[09:39] <NigeyMoby> Hi Jon
[09:39] <jonsowman> how's things
[09:40] <NigeyMoby> Not bad dude, bloody cold though, u?
[09:40] <jonsowman> hehe same
[09:41] <NigeyMoby> We need to be like hamsters and hibernate
[09:43] <NigeyMoby> How did horus 12 do?
[09:43] <jonsowman> I'm a student - I do my best
[09:44] <NigeyMoby> Lol
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[09:51] <NigeyMoby> Oo a parcel
[09:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark A Bishop <mark@bishopworld.net> "First project - GPS and tracking help."
[10:00] <NigeyMoby> Hm desolder pump looks like some kinda torture device!
[10:08] <Darkside> hey ll
[10:08] <Darkside> all
[10:08] <Darkside> balloon launch went well
[10:08] <Darkside> got good video and good pics
[10:09] <NigeyMoby> Great, couldn't keep my eyes open for this 1 lol
[10:10] <jonsowman> Darkside: congrats :)
[10:10] <Darkside> we had the founder of lonely planet there
[10:11] <Randomskk> ! nice
[10:11] <Darkside> Tony Wheeler
[10:11] <Darkside> i was his navigator for the chase :P
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[10:26] <Darkside> hey vk5gr
[10:27] <vk5gr> hi mark
[10:27] <vk5gr> so i hear the pictures were fantastic
[10:27] <Darkside> yeah, they were
[10:27] <Darkside> i havent got a opy yet tho, getting them from joel tomorrow at uni
[10:27] <vk5gr> who has copies of them?
[10:27] <Darkside> i think most people..
[10:27] <Darkside> go ask matt
[10:28] <Darkside> he has the video at least
[10:28] <vk5gr> ok - any chance of getting you to drop by and downloading them to me again? Would love to see a copy
[10:28] <vk5gr> ok - will go pester him tomorrow night
[10:28] <Darkside> heh
[10:28] <Darkside> the gopro had problems still
[10:28] <Darkside> about 30 min of the descent wasnt recorded
[10:28] <Darkside> it started recording again the moment it hit the ground
[10:28] <vk5gr> work thoroughy pissed me off today - the people and meeting that I had to forgoe coming out to play for hadnt held up their end of the bargain
[10:29] <Darkside> :(
[10:29] <vk5gr> so did it work to apogee at least?
[10:29] <Darkside> yeah
[10:29] <Darkside> you see the burst on it
[10:29] <Darkside> you don't see much balloon fragments though
[10:29] <vk5gr> I take it that it burst earlier than expected to?
[10:30] <Darkside> yeah, 33.7km i think
[10:30] <Laurenceb_> http://qkwv.com/power.gif <- not using much power or has it broken?
[10:30] <Darkside> Tony wheeler was nice
[10:30] <vk5gr> he was the lp guy wasnt he?
[10:30] <Darkside> i didn't quite realise who he was until i heard him talking about how the balloon was higher than he was when he was on mt everest
[10:31] <Darkside> yeah, he's the founder of lonely planet
[10:31] <vk5gr> thats what I thought - I hope he comes back for the 3 camera video launch - would love to meet him
[10:31] <Darkside> yeah
[10:31] <Darkside> there were 2 other guys there as well, taking video and pictures
[10:31] <Darkside> and doing interview and stuff
[10:32] <Darkside> they were using a canon DSLR for the video :P
[10:32] <Darkside> 50mm lens, and some other audio recording device that looked like a taser
[10:32] <vk5gr> I had one idea for Terry tonight - grab our best photo from apogee and send it into ABC-TV for a weather photo - that should blow thier minds :-)
[10:32] <Darkside> hahaha
[10:32] <Darkside> yes
[10:32] <Darkside> the camera time was set incorrectly
[10:32] <Darkside> not sure if joel has managed to find the apogee pic yer
[10:33] <vk5gr> The canon DSLRs are being used a lot for video these days - sounds like they were well equipped
[10:33] <Darkside> yeah
[10:33] <Darkside> so i'm on video explaining some of the setup
[10:33] <Darkside> and explaining how my setup in their car differed from adrians
[10:33] <Darkside> mine is the 'university student edition'
[10:33] <Darkside> 2nd hand radio, older antenna, one laptop >_>
[10:34] <vk5gr> hey - it worked - dont sweat it :-) The amateur ops have been building their foxhunt rigs for 10 years!
[10:34] <Darkside> hehe yeah
[10:34] <Darkside> i ended using adrians spare R10, as my yupiteru was bringing in noise from the intverter
[10:34] <vk5gr> now I am even more pissed that I didnt just tell work to shove it
[10:35] <Darkside> :(
[10:35] <Darkside> well, theres always the 3-camera launch
[10:36] <Darkside> we'll still be doing that, thats for sure
[10:36] <NigeyMoby> Grr yagi instructions are in Japanese
[10:36] <Darkside> vk5gr: are you in the city tomorrow?
[10:36] <vk5gr> as long as they come back for it.
[10:36] <Darkside> i'll be at uni all day, if you have time to drop in on your lunch break or something
[10:37] <Darkside> i'll have the pictures and video by about 11am or so
[10:37] <vk5gr> i'm always in the city - and work is at the point where Im, going to get 10 minutes to run out and grab a bite if I am lucky.
[10:37] <Darkside> ahh..
[10:37] <vk5gr> I now look like having to work while I am supposed to be in Melbourne on Holidays as well.
[10:37] <Darkside> that sucks :(
[10:38] <vk5gr> thats next week - going over for the U2 concert and at the rate I am going I am going to have to go to the office in Melbourne during the daytime to set things straight
[10:38] <vk5gr> welcome to the wonderful world of not being a student :(
[10:38] <Darkside> heh..
[10:39] <NigeyMoby> jonsowman Wats this roll of tape stuff for on the yagi? Lol
[10:42] <vk5gr> ahh well - gonna head back and try to get my TAFE video project rendered out - something really screwy with the way the codec's rendered out the source file from FCP last night and Premiere isnt liking it
[10:47] <Darkside> hmm
[10:47] <Darkside> fun
[10:48] <vk5gr> gotta work out how to get it to turn widescreen pixels back into square ones without changing the aspect ratio oif the image
[10:48] <Elwell> ok, I don't see anything on the net about (current) french launches, but does anyone here know of any planned ones? (so I can try and get a working tracker rig)
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[10:49] <Darkside> ohi juxta
[10:50] <juxta> hey Darkside
[10:50] <Elwell> cos I figured I'm unlikely to get much reception of UK ones (>~1000km)
[10:50] <Darkside> juxta: anything interesting happen after i left?
[10:50] <juxta> nah
[10:50] <vk5gr> juxta wouldnt be terry would it?
[10:50] <juxta> hi Grant
[10:51] <vk5gr> I take it all went well from what Darkside has told me
[10:51] <NigeyMoby> Hm not seen anything bout French launches elwell :/
[10:51] <juxta> pretty well
[10:51] <juxta> shame it didn't make the expected alt
[10:51] <juxta> and the gopro went funny again, sigh
[10:51] <NigeyMoby> Hey juxta
[10:51] <vk5gr> saw that - was watching the tracker while in my conference (multi-head monitors are international phone conferences work well)
[10:52] <juxta> hey NigeyMoby
[10:52] <Elwell> my plan is to spend winter working on leccyronics / radio amd aquiring stuff, then try and get a launch ~easter ish with a group from work
[10:52] <juxta> goo to hear you were working hard vk5gr :)
[10:53] <vk5gr> actually i was getting really $#%#^@&^ - the guys on the other end hadnt done their homework - I could well have not bothered making the effort to go to work afterall - really %$#%^#^&$&# about it!
[10:54] <NigeyMoby> Elwell sounds like a good plan.
[10:54] <juxta> ah, annoying
[10:54] <juxta> oh well, still some bugs to be ironed out
[10:54] <juxta> :)
[10:55] <juxta> Darkside, forgot to give you that compass module again
[10:55] <vk5gr> I wonder what killed the gopro on the decent? I read on the forums at one stage that they can have problems with intermittent battery connections?
[10:55] <Darkside> baaaaaahhhhhhh
[10:55] <Darkside> argh
[10:55] <Darkside> juxta: and i have time tomorrow to play with it too!
[10:55] <Darkside> oh well..
[10:55] <Darkside> i'll play with a USRP instead
[10:56] <juxta> not sure, perhaps - will see what comes of it in postmortem and further testing :)
[10:56] <vk5gr> at least it didnt land in the river - although this time I hope you had your swimmers on ? :-)
[10:56] <juxta> Darkside, do you know what happened to the clasp that was holding the gopro in the end?
[10:57] <Darkside> eh?
[10:57] <juxta> it was so close, we were biting our nails
[10:57] <Darkside> the one that broke off the payload on landing?
[10:57] <juxta> yeah
[10:57] <Darkside> what about it?
[10:57] <juxta> know where it ended up? I dont have it :(
[10:57] <Darkside> no idea >_>
[10:58] <Darkside> it was on one of the tables
[10:58] <Darkside> down near where i had my bag, and no its not in my bag
[10:58] <juxta> ahrighto
[10:58] <juxta> i'll have a hunt later on
[10:59] <juxta> I'll have to head up there in a few days to pick everything up
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[11:14] <vk5gr> juxta - an idea for you - pick out the best photo from apogee and send it in to ABC-TV for their "weather photo" segment on the news :-)
[11:14] <juxta> good thinking
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[11:42] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/23/coders_insomnia_mental_hygiene/
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> roflmao
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> ^ made some improvements to that - ive forked dl-fldiig
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:02] Nick change: gm_ -> gm
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> wow RFMD are good - theyve sent me 25 free samples by 2 day delivery
[12:17] <Darkside> oh vk5gr, telstras new data plans are AWESOME
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> from china
[12:17] <Darkside> one step closer to me switching :) just need to find the right phone
[12:17] <vk5gr> yep - looks like they are getting competitive finally
[12:17] <Darkside> yah
[12:19] <Darkside> but yeah, just waiting on a phone...
[12:19] <Darkside> considering importing a desire Z from the US
[12:19] <Darkside> they do UMTS850/1800
[12:19] <shenki> Darkside: really?!
[12:19] <shenki> Darkside: where?
[12:19] <Darkside> well the US version apparently does that
[12:19] <shenki> nice
[12:19] <shenki> the AT&T version, i'd guess
[12:19] <Darkside> but i'd want to confirm that works on NextG before i go and buy one
[12:20] <Darkside> but i dont think anyone else has done it
[12:20] <shenki> http://picasaweb.google.com/joel.stan/Horus12
[12:20] <Darkside> also gotta be sure you can reflash the phone
[12:20] <shenki> balloon burst :)
[12:20] <Darkside> oh wicked
[12:20] <Darkside> frames from the video?
[12:20] <shenki> pic 3 is the best
[12:20] <shenki> Darkside: yeah
[12:21] <shenki> there's another set of burst ones, where it's done a loop around and gets it a second time
[12:21] <Darkside> oh man stray high energy particle
[12:21] <Darkside> haha
[12:21] <shenki> but the first is the best because you can see the puff of helium against the sun
[12:21] <Darkside> oh wow
[12:21] <Darkside> yes you can
[12:21] <shenki> juxta: http://picasaweb.google.com/joel.stan/Horus12#5542713087971160082
[12:22] <juxta> nice work shenki :)
[12:22] <juxta> I'd say it's talk from the balloon you can see rather than helium
[12:22] <juxta> talc*?
[12:22] <shenki> yeah, that's more likely
[12:23] <juxta> i'm off to bed guys, exhuasted :)
[12:23] <Darkside> i doubt the helium would condense
[12:23] <shenki> good night
[12:23] <juxta> thanks for coming out today, catchya tomorrow
[12:23] <Darkside> so yeah shenki, depending on price, im considering importing a desire Z
[12:24] <vk5gr> no point getting umts850/1800 - there is no UMTS 1800 here - you really will eventually need 850/2100 in australia
[12:25] <Darkside> damn
[12:25] <shenki> vk5gr: better off getting 850 than 2100 atm tho, yeah?
[12:25] <shenki> (if you can't get both)
[12:25] <Darkside> so no compelte 850 coverage?
[12:26] <vk5gr> no - 850 is complete - but more and more capacity being added at 2100
[12:26] <vk5gr> beautiful photos shenki!
[12:27] <shenki> vk5gr: cheers - they're stills from the HD camera running at 720p
[12:27] <vk5gr> I look forward to getting a copy of the video - will see Matt tomorrow night hopefuylly
[12:27] <shenki> hopefully someone skilled in the art will chop up the video ;)
[12:27] <vk5gr> they are from the gopro?
[12:27] <shenki> yes
[12:27] <vk5gr> any from the a560?
[12:27] <Darkside> hmm vk5gr but if i was going to get a NextG phone, i would be expecting to be using 850 exclusively
[12:27] <Darkside> so why would i ever need 2100? especially on Telstra
[12:27] <shenki> vk5gr: yeah, we've got a full set from the still camera too
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[12:28] <vk5gr> Darkside - just as carriers mix 900/1800 GSM where GSM 1800 is used for capacity for those users up close to the base, so it will be with the 850/2100 carriers such as T and V and 900/2100 with O
[12:29] <vk5gr> for UMTS (I should add)
[12:29] <Darkside> ahh
[12:29] <Darkside> makes sense
[12:29] <Darkside> well thats annoying, because i highly doubt there will be a 850/2100 version of the HTC Desire Z
[12:29] <vk5gr> (and you just finished your degree - aiii these young ones today :-)
[12:29] <Darkside> and theres no other phones that take my fancy at the moment - i can't stand touchscreen keyboards
[12:29] <vk5gr> if you have an 850 only you will be pretty right
[12:30] <vk5gr> be aware though that often T doesnt sell a phone because it's firmware isnt up to scratch. You take the risk of it screwing up on the network if you import it
[12:30] <vk5gr> that would show up mostly as perhaps more dropped calls than you might expect
[12:31] <Darkside> interesting
[12:31] <Darkside> also the desire Z is very new...
[12:31] <Darkside> only came out at the start of the month
[12:31] <Darkside> but i guess telstra would have had one for a while
[12:33] <vk5gr> dep[ends if the manufacturers even intend to make it for aus - lots of ifs buts and mabyes - just because a phone is released in one market doesnt mean it will automatically be released in another.
[12:33] <Darkside> i think optus or voda are getting a 900/2100 version
[12:33] <vk5gr> the carrier has the final say on what they sell - and put their own feature requirements to the manufacturers accordingly
[12:34] <Darkside> yeah
[12:34] <vk5gr> well if they get a 900/2100 version then I suspect T will end up with an 850./2100 version eventually. Be aware that Voda is going to start pushing 850/2100 as well soon - they are building an 850 network right now in metropolitan areas - they will probably start pushing tri-band UMTS actually
[12:34] <Darkside> cool
[12:35] <Darkside> i know the iphone 4 does that, what other phones are there?
[12:35] <Darkside> the tri-band stuff i mean
[12:35] <vk5gr> not sure which others are out there - I know the T Umtimate DC-HSDPA modem is tri-band (the 42Mbit one)
[12:35] <shenki> the htc android phones share very common basebands, i wouldn't be surprised if the desire z radio firmware is quite close to that of the other htc android phones already on the market here
[12:36] <shenki> s/common/simliar/
[12:36] <Darkside> probably similar to the Desire
[12:36] <vk5gr> I suspect many of the handsets are reaching the stage of using SDRs - it will only be the filtering requirements that will make it complicated on the RF deck
[12:36] <Darkside> just with a keyboard
[12:36] <shenki> yeah
[12:37] <Darkside> would the phone need to be acma approved or something?
[12:37] <shenki> Darkside: blackberry have a 2100/1900/850 handset, and sony have one too
[12:37] <Darkside> 1900
[12:38] <shenki> im just googling :) no gaurntees the data is reliable
[12:38] <vk5gr> there are various EMI and emissions things it would need to meet - mostly the 3GPP standards cover that for the handset end of the network
[12:38] <vk5gr> there are LOTs of 850/2100 handsets out there
[12:38] <vk5gr> just got to go looking for them - my nokia E51 is 850/2100
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> vk5gr: they are not
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> vk5gr: SDR is _enormously_ more expensive in terms of battery than custom silicon solutions tailored to the exact firmware.
[12:39] <vk5gr> in australia they are - and I have the test software on it and have had it register as a T userr on 2100 to prove it
[12:39] <vk5gr> ahh - wrong conversation thread.
[12:40] <vk5gr> interssting - I would have expected them to be heading down SDR routes as they are in the NodeB end of the link
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> vk5gr: That's not to say that once it's decimated, filtered, and ... to a lower thread 3g/GSM/... radios don't use a lot of SDR
[12:40] <vk5gr> of course it is easier to do in a base station.
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - and brings more benefits potentially.
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> As you can add extra filtering and stuff as you think about it
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> As long as you have enough CPU
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> And a common architecture, you can upgrade stuff 'for free'.
[12:41] <vk5gr> well it means we can change the mode of a transciver by simply loading new software to it - switch it between LTE, UMTS and GSM at the flick of a software load - attractive to an operator who then only needs to spare one type of hardware
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> many things use a lot of cpu
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Some truly eye-watering amounts, such that dedicated hardware is a lot cheaper.
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> my sdr uses 5% of a 2GHz amd just to resample 20ksps
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> I suspect that's as it sucks.
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> heh its using floats
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> It should go _lots_ faster.
[12:43] <shenki> as it's not a dsp - computation per cycle is low
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> I like to bring out the teeny bit of crystal costing $1 that can do 5 billion floating point calculations a second on a microwatt.
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> To point out how far SDR power use needs to go to eliminate all analog components.
[12:44] Action: Laurenceb_ still cant work out why he is getting above the shannon limit with bpsk
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_keying
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> the bit error rate equation
[12:45] Action: SpeedEvil screams 'The coding cannae take it captain!'
[12:46] <Darkside> did you know scotty used to hold a bit of engine capacity in reserve
[12:46] <Darkside> so he could push it up to 11 if needed
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_capacity
[12:46] Action: SpeedEvil knows.
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> if i try a really high bit rate
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> what happens?
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> I would suggest that if you're beating the shannon capacity, you need to recheck your maths.
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> required SNR goes way up
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> i get over the shannon limit for high bit rates
[12:47] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: but whats your SNR
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> There is no SNR limit per channel width
[12:47] <Darkside> is there any noise at all?
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> It's all about SNR
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> yes
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> And error rates.
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> (1-erfc(sqrt(1/bitrate)))*bitrate
[12:48] <vk5gr> niyte all
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> thats the bit error rate
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[12:48] <Laurenceb_> sorry no
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> (1-erfc(sqrt(1/bitrate)))
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> erfc(sqrt(1/bitrate)) is bit error rate for BPSK
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> assuming normalised noise
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> is the channel capacity is (1-erfc(sqrt(1/bitrate)))*bitrate
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> which tends to infinity as i increase the bitrate :(
[12:49] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: vk5gr is an engineer for the biggest telco in australia, he knows his shit
[12:49] <Darkside> :P
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> hard to tell often
[12:49] <Darkside> though he works on the network side, not the handset side
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Nice to know.
[12:50] <Darkside> he designed almost all the phone towers in my area >_>
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming based on the 'SDR is everywhere' which surprisingly many people think.
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> And while it's increasing dramatically, it can use _so_ much more power in some cases it's ridiculous.
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> so where did i screw up ?!
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Also, I diddn't read all backscroll.
[12:51] <Darkside> ok sleep time
[12:51] <Darkside> nn
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> nn
[12:51] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had a GSM/3G tcpdump/air interface
[12:51] <Darkside> oh so do i
[12:52] <Darkside> but that would be so illegal
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:52] <Darkside> monitoring that kind of data is legally wiretapping afaik
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> I actually want it to work out WTF my cellphone is disconnecting from the network.
[12:52] <Darkside> well there are programs to talk directly to the chipsets
[12:52] <Darkside> they cost a fuckton of money
[12:52] <Darkside> and aren't available outside telco test labs
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> Or openbts
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> http://openbts.sourceforge.net/
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> but it doesn't do 3g
[12:53] <Darkside> but thats gsm
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> (yet)
[12:53] <Darkside> vk5gr gave my adv tele class a demo of one such piece of software :P
[12:53] <Darkside> played us a log of a phone moving through a certain area, doing handover and stuff
[12:54] <Darkside> was pretty damn cool
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> neat!
[12:54] <Darkside> anyway, sleep
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I suspect it's a handover failing, and then not reregistering for some reason issue.
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> Goodnight!
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[12:59] <Laurenceb_> (1-erfc(sqrt(1/bitrate)))*bitrate
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> (1-BER)*bits per second... surely thats right
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[13:11] <Laurenceb_> cant work it out :(
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Channel_capacity_for_complex_constellations.svg
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> interesting that that takes the brute force approach to the same problem
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> turns out using BPSK spread spectrum about 3KHz wide for 300bits/sec would give a reliable link at SNR which completely breaks 50 baud rtty in fldigi
[13:16] <NigeyS> hey laurence
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[13:40] <NigeyS> hey WillDuckworth TraumaPony
[13:40] <TraumaPony> Ahoy
[13:40] <NigeyS> :)
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[13:42] <WillDuckworth> Hi NigeyS
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[13:45] <WillDuckworth> just had the army on the blower checking up on me re. the balloon release on sat...
[13:45] <WillDuckworth> all ok.
[13:46] <NigeyS> army? huh?!
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> on the blower?!
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> wazzat
[13:47] <NigeyS> phone .. lol
[13:47] <WillDuckworth> i know - supposedly there's a few going on around now until the weekend. They had the notam info and are ringing round..
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> oh right
[13:48] <NigeyS> ohh, prolly think ure spying on the base lol
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[13:48] <Laurenceb_> thats fairly standard for people to check up on notams
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[13:50] <WillDuckworth> gtg now, but i'll be doing a full info post on the mailing list later, plus (fingers crossed) checking coms with the tracker (thanks jonsowman)
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[14:31] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> annyoing nonlinear shift :(
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> looks like only 1.2khz chip rate would be possible
[14:48] <NigeyS> its all way over my head, what ya trying to do? :|
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> psk
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> if i just do small shifts its more linear
[14:51] <NigeyS> it all looks rather complicated!
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[15:07] <NigeyS> ello phil
[15:13] <fsphil> g'day nige - what's new
[15:13] <NigeyS> not much, jus thinking how dumb the bbc are
[15:14] <fsphil> ah, yes they do seem to have their moments
[15:14] <NigeyS> theyve spent 15 mins on the royal wedding coming up
[15:15] <NigeyS> yet the most important story SHOULD be the nortk / south korean tit for tat earlier today
[15:15] <NigeyS> north*
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[15:21] <fsphil> wouldn't be the first time they've lost touch of scale
[15:22] <NigeyS> crazyness
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[15:49] <micronaut> Hi all
[15:51] <fsphil> howdy micronaut
[15:52] <micronaut> :)
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[15:56] <Laurenceb_> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRONGER-then-AWUS036h-1000mW-ULTRA-YAGI-21dBi-5M-/370254041825?pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item5634dc52e1
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> that looks very legal
[15:57] <Elwell> The website at cgi.ebay.co.uk contains elements from the site www.add-pay.ru,
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:00] <Laurenceb_> pity you need a 2 way link to do wifi
[16:00] <fsphil> I'm going to try a few wifi antennas up the mountain this weekend
[16:00] <fsphil> see if I can link to the network back home
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> thing is, a high power tx is surely no use if you dont have one on the other end
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> guess if you had two of those you could have some serious fun
[16:02] <fsphil> an amp would be useful if one station has a vertical antenna
[16:04] <micronaut> Today I got moved to another unit in the mountains !
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> link budget suggests >300 mile range with two of those at 1Mbps
[16:04] <micronaut> there lie radars and hawks :P
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> :P
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> not sure what time of flight limits there are
[16:04] <micronaut> and thats my final unit
[16:05] <fsphil> hawks are cool
[16:05] <micronaut> its 90% that I will do exersices on simulated launches
[16:06] <micronaut> and using radars
[16:06] <micronaut> :p
[16:06] <fsphil> balloon radar -- that'd be cool
[16:07] <micronaut> lol
[16:07] <micronaut> balloon should contain a radar reflector
[16:07] <fsphil> a simple repeater made with ntx2 + nrx2 mounted on the balloon .. transmit a pulse from the ground and time when the echo returns
[16:07] <fsphil> a couple of ground stations doing that and you could triangulate the position without gps :)
[16:08] <micronaut> yea
[16:08] <fsphil> micronaut: not in the UK oddly, it's the one thing they are relaxed about here
[16:08] <micronaut> like gsm triangulation
[16:08] <micronaut> I just managed to transfer an image from ttlcam at 57600
[16:09] <fsphil> sweet
[16:09] <micronaut> trying 115200 though does not work
[16:09] <fsphil> what speed is your avr running at? the camera is probably very fussy about having an exact baud rate
[16:12] <micronaut> crystal oscilates at 16mhz
[16:13] <micronaut> I dont understand the fussy word
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> http://www.eslared.org.ve/articulos/Long%20Distance%20WiFi%20Trial.pdf
[16:16] <micronaut> Laurenceb_ when I was in university I did a 802.11a/b link at 40km over sea
[16:16] <fsphil> basically you can't make exactly 115200 baud with a 16mhz crystal
[16:17] <micronaut> average bandwidth was 36mbps
[16:17] <micronaut> fsphil why?
[16:18] <fsphil> the avr makes its baud rates by dividing the crystal frequency
[16:18] <micronaut> mh?
[16:19] <fsphil> 16000000 / 115200 = 138.888....
[16:19] <fsphil> it can only divide by 139 or 138
[16:19] <fsphil> so you can't get exactly 115200
[16:21] <micronaut> but 16000000/57600 works
[16:21] <micronaut> why?
[16:22] <fsphil> the difference is less at lower baud rates
[16:22] <fsphil> with a 14.7456 mhz crystal, you can get exactly 115200 baud by dividing by 128
[16:23] <fsphil> it might not even be the crystal speed causing your problem, but I seen this happen with the C328
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[16:40] <micronaut> hmm
[16:40] <micronaut> did u solve it?
[16:43] <fsphil> yea I used a 7.3728MHz crystal
[16:44] <fsphil> although I now run the camera at a low bitrate anyway, 14400 baud
[16:44] <fsphil> so it probably wouldn't matter
[16:45] <NigeyS> hmm, not heard from the guy on ebay since i won the auction :|
[16:45] <fsphil> but no harm
[16:45] <fsphil> still early yet NigeyS - what's the status on ebay say? should show if they've marked it posted or not
[16:46] <NigeyS> still says not posted
[16:46] <NigeyS> got my yagi today though, kinda bigger than i thought
[16:47] <micronaut> fsphil using a 7mhz won't slow down the cpu?
[16:47] <fsphil> they always are NigeyS
[16:47] <NigeyS> glad i stuck with the 10 ele can imagine the 15 being a monster lol !
[16:49] <fsphil> micronaut: that or 8mhz .. the difference is pretty small
[16:49] <fsphil> my avr is doing a fair bit of image work, but the packets are only going out at 300 baud so there's plenty of time
[16:50] <micronaut> mine are going on 1200baud
[16:51] <fsphil> if you're only storing it on sd card then there should be no problem
[16:51] <fsphil> the 14.7456 crystal is pretty close to 16mhz anyway
[16:51] <micronaut> that mcu will be the whole flight system
[16:52] <micronaut> the 14.7456 crystal will be ok with 115200 ?
[16:54] <fsphil> it divides evenly so should be fine
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[16:59] <micronaut> ok
[16:59] <micronaut> 8&14mhz crystal on my list
[16:59] <fsphil> 14.7456 mhz
[17:00] <fsphil> the .7456 is important :)
[17:01] <micronaut> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/669
[17:01] <micronaut> see the comment :p
[17:01] <fsphil> exactly :)
[17:01] <micronaut> ok
[17:02] <micronaut> thanks for the awesome info
[17:02] <micronaut> wouldnt solve it without u
[17:02] <fsphil> well it's not solved yet, but I hope it helps
[17:02] <micronaut> yes
[17:02] <micronaut> its a very good direction
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[17:05] <micronaut> are there any DIP Sockets for ATMega644?
[17:06] <fsphil> an IC socket? should be
[17:07] <micronaut> cant find at sparkfun
[17:08] <fsphil> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/7944
[17:10] <micronaut> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc7674.pdf page 196-197
[17:10] <micronaut> baudrates & crystals
[17:10] <micronaut> oh thanks for the link
[17:11] <micronaut> 14.7456 and 8.000 are ideal with 0.0% error
[17:12] <fsphil> 8mhz has a 8.5% error at 115200 baud
[17:14] <micronaut> oh yes
[17:14] <micronaut> seems that my eyes are tired
[17:14] <micronaut> 14.7456 is ideal
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[18:42] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:42] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
[18:43] <NigeyS> ello laurenceb
[18:43] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:43] <NigeyS> cold again tonight :(
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[19:09] <fsphil> yikes .. and I was chuffed at getting my avr to blink a few leds, check out what this guy did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNCqrylNY-0
[19:10] <Laurenceb> and zeeesss is veree ze zound comes out
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[19:11] <Laurenceb> arg no chiptune
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[19:12] <NigeyS> like the EQ .. funky stuff!
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[19:14] <NigeyS> fsphil, RG58U Coax Cable for DAB Radio or Radio Ham. 50ohm that the right 1? :|
[19:14] <fsphil> sounds about right
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[19:15] <NigeyS> kk ty :)
[19:15] <fsphil> it's quite lossy at 400mhz, try not to use too much
[19:15] <NigeyS> Attenuation @ 400MHz 31.0dB/m (±5dB)
[19:16] <fsphil> oo, thats a bit more than I expected
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[19:16] <NigeyS> thats a heck of alot per M
[19:19] <jonsowman> NigeyS: that's almost certainly wrong
[19:19] <jonsowman> can't possibly be that much
[19:19] <jonsowman> where did you get that figure?
[19:20] <NigeyS> http://www.aerialshack.com/rg58u-coax-cable-radio-radio-50ohm-p-299.html
[19:20] <NigeyS> on the specs section
[19:21] <LazyLeopard> Those specs are screwey one way or another.
[19:21] <jonsowman> that's certainly wrong
[19:21] <NigeyS> hope so i need 10metres of the stuff :|
[19:22] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[19:22] <GW8RAK> Evening, that should be 31dB per 100m
[19:22] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: that sounds far more sensible
[19:22] <fsphil> even 10 metres of rg58 can be very lossy
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[19:22] <NigeyS> yeah that seems a bit more resonable
[19:22] <GW8RAK> It's not a great cable, but as long as it is kept short.
[19:23] <jonsowman> yeah it's not great, but it's not /that/ bad
[19:23] <GW8RAK> However, 10m will still halve your signal
[19:23] <LazyLeopard> http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/antennas/coax/rf-coax-cable-data-specifications.php
[19:23] <NigeyS> shortest length i can get away with is 8.5m
[19:23] <fsphil> is there a better cable that a BNC plug can be crimped on to?
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[19:23] <fsphil> RG213 seems a bit big for that
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[19:24] <GW8RAK> Westflex 103. .7dB per 10m
[19:24] <GW8RAK> It's not cheap, nor expensive, and it needs special connectors, but it is a good cable
[19:25] <fsphil> ooh that is good
[19:25] <GW8RAK> What I mean is, you get what you pay for.
[19:25] <NigeyS> .7 :O
[19:25] <jonsowman> westflex 103 is great
[19:25] <GW8RAK> 7.5dB at 435MHz
[19:25] <GW8RAK> per 100m
[19:26] <NigeyS> 38quid :|
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Hardline!
[19:26] <fsphil> if you can get the rg58 really cheap then go for it, it may well do your job
[19:27] <fsphil> (and by cheap I mean free ;-)
[19:27] <NigeyS> haha well, 10m was 6 quid i think
[19:27] <GW8RAK> £1.50 per metre and £12 for 2 BNC connectors
[19:27] <fsphil> plugs and all?
[19:27] <fsphil> GW8RAK, is that the westflex cable?
[19:27] <NigeyS> doesnt say, i assume not
[19:27] <GW8RAK> I keep waiting for some hardline.
[19:28] <GW8RAK> Yes, www.whwestlake.co.uk
[19:28] <fsphil> hardline? google isn't helping me, just returning results about Iran ;-)
[19:29] <GW8RAK> I've got a piece of coax here, about75mm in diameter. the central conductor is like 15mm waterpipe and is kept in place with a polythene coil space.
[19:29] <GW8RAK> Power handling is about 1MW
[19:29] <fsphil> ah, got it
[19:29] <fsphil> holy cow
[19:29] <fsphil> that's big cable
[19:30] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coaxialcableoneandfifthofan.jpg
[19:30] <GW8RAK> That's the one. Filled with dry pressurised N2
[19:31] <GW8RAK> Mine is a bit more than 1 5/8
[19:31] <chris_99> whats the N2 for GW8RAK
[19:32] <GW8RAK> It keeps water vapour out. Even a bit of energy absorbtion with hundreds of KW going through it will lead to localised heating and breakdown.
[19:33] <GW8RAK> Used on TV transmitters which is where I got my bit from.
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[19:33] <GW8RAK> And no, I didn't cut it out one dark night while it was running.
[19:33] <NigeyS> lol
[19:33] <chris_99> haha
[19:33] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... There's no standard unit for quoting signal attenuation on cables, is there... The websites seem to use dB/10m or dB/100ft mostly, though...
[19:33] <fsphil> "Ah .. wales can do without telly one night ... "
[19:33] <NigeyS> thats a mighty beefy cable mind
[19:34] <GW8RAK> Well, I've had my flight computer running for about 12 hours now without a hiccup. Is that enough to be certain it won't crash for software reasons?
[19:34] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: indeed
[19:34] <chris_99> they could also sense the pressure loss to stop people stealing their antenna (like they do with some fibre)
[19:34] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: hehe, try and break it
[19:34] <fsphil> It explains the thick cables I seen on the radio tower up the mountain here - I thought they where conduits carrying lots of cables
[19:34] <GW8RAK> chris_99 I told you, it wasn't me who blacked out North Wales
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[19:34] <chris_99> hehe
[19:35] <GW8RAK> So now I want to get the eprom installed and the temperature sensors.
[19:35] <GW8RAK> I want to try to get it to demonstration stage for Friday night.
[19:35] <GW8RAK> So perhaps connecting the TX will be more useful.
[19:36] <jonsowman> shout when you need an XML for the tracker GW8RAK
[19:36] <jonsowman> speaking of which, anyone seem WillDuckworth around?
[19:36] <LazyLeopard> ...with the occasionall oddball site using Db/100m just to confuse things...
[19:36] Action: jonsowman slaps zeusbot
[19:37] <fsphil> that's right, he's launching this weekend
[19:37] <jonsowman> I said I'd do an XML for him
[19:37] <jonsowman> but have managed to miss him several times over
[19:37] <NigeyS> he was in earlier jon, said he'd be back tonight
[19:37] <GW8RAK> jonsowman, wil do. Will see if I can get the TX on tonight.
[19:37] <jonsowman> NigeyS: righto, thanks
[19:37] <GW8RAK> Don't have to track for Friday, but if we can decode the RTTY it would be good
[19:38] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: cool, as soon as it's transmitting I'll get an XML done so we can check the tracker's working
[19:38] <GW8RAK> Or should I leave the computer doing it's stuff until I reach 65535 mission events? Can I be bothered to wait another 40 hours?
[19:39] <GW8RAK> If it crashes then, I've probably lost it anyway
[19:39] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:39] <jonsowman> initialise the code with the events count at 65530
[19:39] <GW8RAK> It might be hehe to you, but it's my pride and joy :-)
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[19:40] <jonsowman> the hehe was with respect to waiting 40 hours
[19:40] <jonsowman> and you probably not wishing to
[19:41] <fsphil> leave it running overnight some time, if its still working in the morning then declare victory
[19:41] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Just submitted a BalloonSat article for KATS, Kansas science teachers association. That's publication number 133. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/7156732841168897]
[19:41] <jonsowman> good plan
[19:41] <GW8RAK> It just cycles back to 0 on the mission counter so the battery life is the weak spot, not the software, I hope.
[19:41] <fsphil> you're more likely to get a bug from unexpected input though, like the meridian bug
[19:41] <jonsowman> ah fair enough then
[19:42] <chembrow> meridian bug?
[19:42] <LazyLeopard> ...aerial shack being one that really confuses the issue by using dB/100m figures but sayintg they're dB/m *eyeroll*
[19:43] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: lol
[19:43] <GW8RAK> What is the problem with the meridian. Mine gives = - sign to the longitude
[19:43] <GW8RAK> meridian?
[19:44] <fsphil> one of the payloads didn't account for it, and stopped returning sensible values after it crossed the meridian
[19:44] <LazyLeopard> Negative longitude is west of the meridian, negative latitude is south of the equator.
[19:44] <jonsowman> fsphil: it's happened many many times
[19:44] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: More than one... ;)
[19:44] <jonsowman> including first launch of ferret
[19:44] <fsphil> ooh! I only knew about ferret
[19:45] <fsphil> only a big issue if you live near the meridian. or there's a strong wind :)
[19:45] <GW8RAK> Is it a problem caused by, dare I say, poor software, or is there something more to it?
[19:45] <LazyLeopard> ferret's first flight was a particularly interesting skew on the numbers, IIRC. ;)
[19:46] <fsphil> GW8RAK, software bug
[19:46] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: god knows what happened - we didn't write that code from scratch
[19:46] <jonsowman> anything could've happened
[19:46] <GW8RAK> Okay. I'm not anticipating crossing the merdian, but I've tried to allow for it
[19:47] <LazyLeopard> I think it did something like ignore a sign bit but use the rest of the bits from the negative number as if it was a positive one...
[19:48] <LazyLeopard> It certainly caused the chase teams some fun.
[19:50] <jonsowman> yes indeed
[19:50] <fsphil> I must test my own against that -- is there a way to pull a previous flights logs?
[19:50] <jonsowman> oops
[19:51] <jonsowman> fsphil: I can grab some data from the listener server for you, what are you after?
[19:52] <fsphil> I'm trying to think of the last one that cross the meridian
[19:52] <fsphil> +ed
[19:53] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:53] <jonsowman> can't remember
[19:53] <jonsowman> they tend to go east from Cam
[19:54] <fsphil> the icarus launch on the 3rd of January 2009 -- if the logs go back that far
[19:57] <fsphil> actually, I think Alien-1 cross it too
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[19:57] <fsphil> +ed again
[20:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: http://hexoc.com/u/icarus-2009-01-03.log
[20:03] <jonsowman> here you go
[20:04] <fsphil> perfect! thanks
[20:04] <jonsowman> no worries
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> good evening everyone
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello Darkside, will we have Horus 12 tonight I saw?
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> how comes it is so silent?
[21:02] <fsphil> planning how to take over the world
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:02] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> can we do it by balloon?
[21:03] <fsphil> well it would certainly give my Mind Control Device good coverage
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> vtw
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> *btw
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> balloons *can* have aerodynamic lift
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> in wind shear or just after launch
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> (source: Scientific Ballooning Handbook)
[21:08] <GW8RAK> Well, the good news is that I can hear the ntx sending data, but it seems to be full of harmonics or distortion.
[21:09] <GW8RAK> Rather than a neat tone, I've getting a rasping sound and it looks like there are spikes across the audio spectrum.
[21:10] <GW8RAK> Anybody have any ideas?
[21:10] <fsphil> GW8RAK, try slowing it down so that each bit is maybe a second long
[21:10] <fsphil> then you can see if the levels are in the right place
[21:11] <GW8RAK> Can't do that I'm afraid. Can only get to about 30baud
[21:11] <fsphil> ah, your using a hardware uart?
[21:11] <GW8RAK> Yes
[21:11] <GW8RAK> At least it is making all the right noises.
[21:11] <fsphil> can you upload a sample?
[21:12] <GW8RAK> If needs be, I'll output it bit by bit and then I can make it any speed I want.
[21:13] <GW8RAK> Admittedly, it's not a particularly good installation RF wise.
[21:16] <fsphil> I'm using breadboard atm, horrible for RF :)
[21:16] <GW8RAK> I'll stick a scope on the lines I think. See if it is cross talk.
[21:17] <fsphil> are you using two pins to drive the rtty?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> are the right noises that ditdilititidi?
[21:21] <GW8RAK> Just using 1 pin as used on Apex II
[21:22] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: RT @projecthorus: Balloon Landed & Retrieved! #projecthorus #arhab [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/7182100813840386]
[21:22] <GW8RAK> It's not far off RTTY, but it sounds like there are a lot of harmonics or distortion
[21:22] <fsphil> are there two strong lines at the expected shift?
[21:22] <GW8RAK> I can see the timing of the pulses at 20ms per bit, so that is okay for 50 baud
[21:23] <GW8RAK> and a shift of about 1V
[21:25] <fsphil> that's too much
[21:25] <GW8RAK> According to the published volts versus frequency graph, that is too much.
[21:25] <GW8RAK> Just been looking at that fsphil
[21:25] <GW8RAK> It could be overdriven.
[21:26] <fsphil> yea,.. the other carrier might be out of range of the radio
[21:26] <fsphil> could make the raspy noise you mentioned
[21:27] <GW8RAK> At 1.9KHz per volt, that is a big shift.
[21:27] <GW8RAK> I'll see if I can bring it down.
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[21:31] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, or a penny rattling about in a glass jar
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[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> and that is that fddigi?
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> or what is it called again
[21:32] <fsphil> fldigi does rtty yea, plus loads of others
[21:32] <fsphil> some sound even weirder
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> I miss a complete guide to the radio systems somehow
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> like what do you have to do when you have your flight computer, your NTX-2
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> what do you do to make it broadcast positions so that you can see that
[21:35] <fsphil> there's some good info about it on the ukhas wiki somewhere
[21:36] <fsphil> but basically frequency of the ntx2 is varied with serial data
[21:36] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/dl-fldigi
[21:36] <Laurenceb> can anyone merge that with the main dl-fligi?
[21:36] <jonsowman> urgh, seriously zeusbot
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:37] <jonsowman> useless bot
[21:37] <jonsowman> try this
[21:37] <fsphil> hehe
[21:37] <jonsowman> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
[21:37] <fsphil> Laurenceb, jcoxon's branch is the main one - you'll need to ping him when he gets on here
[21:37] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> is the first thing a wiring plan?
[21:37] <Laurenceb> i think the changes i need to make are finished now
[21:38] <Laurenceb> you can also relay wav files really fast now :P
[21:38] <Laurenceb> if you use stream to open a wav
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://alienproject.wordpress.com/tag/radiometrix-ntx2/
[21:39] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: you can just send a pull request via github to jame I think
[21:39] <Laurenceb> ah nice
[21:39] <jonsowman> *james
[21:40] <Laurenceb> sweet
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> so that last page says
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> Connect NTX2 to microcontroller
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> receive the signal, send it through fldigi and you get results?
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> !?
[21:41] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: james just has to accept the pull request and pull your changes, then push back to the main repo
[21:41] <Laurenceb> i see
[21:48] <GW8RAK> I've got a nice 6KHz shift!
[21:48] <GW8RAK> A bit excessive perhaps?
[21:48] <fsphil> haha
[21:48] <fsphil> you'd need two radio's to decode that :)
[21:48] <jonsowman> haha
[21:48] <jonsowman> yes I think so
[21:49] <GW8RAK> It's out the passband of the rig, so can only see one of the tones at once.
[21:49] <GW8RAK> But it sounds like RTTY
[21:50] <GW8RAK> In other words, a successful evening and just some tweaking to be done.
[21:50] <fsphil> it probably is, just need to tame that shift a bit
[21:50] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/WRTPr.jpg
[21:50] <fsphil> lol
[21:50] <StrayVoltage> Hahahah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:51] <GW8RAK> Need to get a shift of 80mV or thereabouts.
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> we have a nice word in German for StrayVoltage's nick
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> "Kriechstrom"
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:54] <fsphil> http://imgur.com/2aU5N.jpg
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> LOL!
[21:56] <fsphil> eek, imgur.com uses 6.76 TB per day
[21:56] <fsphil> oh wait, 11.73 TB now
[21:58] <NigeyS> jonsowman, does that resistor config for the .075 module stay the same for the .650 ?
[21:58] <jonsowman> NigeyS: yes
[21:58] Action: Laurenceb is designing a spread specturm mode for ntx2
[21:59] <Laurenceb> reacon you can get 3.5KHz bandwidth DSSS
[21:59] <NigeyS> cheers
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> cheers NigeyS
[22:00] <NigeyS> hehe hey lunar
[22:00] Action: Lunar_Lander lifts his glass of beer
[22:01] <fsphil> "#highaltitude was filmed before a live studio audience"
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[22:01] <Laurenceb> hah
[22:01] <Laurenceb> *audience laughter*
[22:02] <fsphil> "Where everybody knows your nick ... "
[22:02] <fsphil> damn I've got that tune in my head now
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> do you have similar shit like "Popstars" on English TV?
[22:03] <fsphil> sadly yes
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> it is a show where they cast a band, unlike "Idols" where they look for a solo singer
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> it was so great
[22:03] <Laurenceb> we have xyz factor etc
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> the idiots of Pro7 sent these four girls into the stadium of Wolfsburg
[22:03] <Laurenceb> were they naked?
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> to sing "Football's coming Home" during the half-time break
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> no
[22:04] <Laurenceb> pointless then XD
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> but the emotions were excellent
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> whistling from everywhere
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> "STOP!" "PISS OFF!" "You're a pile as shit like Dortmund!"
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> *pile of
[22:05] <Laurenceb> lol
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> and guess what the TV people did?
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> they only took the video, put a studio version of the song on and a cheering crowd
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> on TV they claimed that stadium session a "huge success"
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[22:15] <iNatrium> O/
[22:16] <fsphil> if you analysed it you'd probably find they've used the same cheer for the past few years
[22:16] <fsphil> iHello iNatrium !
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah xD
[22:17] <iNatrium> Sup?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_39fmQGa6k
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.b3ta.com/questions/heckles/post51879 Lunar_Lander - reminded me of
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwdJAIL-G1s&feature=related
[22:17] <GW8RAK> 1600Hz shift now, so at least it appears on the same screen of fldigi!
[22:17] <jonsowman> getting there
[22:17] <NigeyS> lol nice 1 GW8RAK
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD SpeedEvil
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> "They were on stage for approximately 3 minutes, where they were subjected to heckling and bottles of piss being thrown at them. They ran off crying, soaked head to foot in other peoples urine."
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!!!
[22:18] <GW8RAK> Sticking a 470K resistor in the txd line.
[22:18] <jonsowman> * people's
[22:18] <jonsowman> </pedant>
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> "5 minutes later Daphne and Celeste stroll out to the signing desk all cleaned up wearing lip gloss, only to be faced moments late by a hail of piss filled bottles and mud. "
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> SHIT LOL HELP
[22:19] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: are you using the same setup we used for Apex?
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil is there a youtube video of that?
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: probably
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:20] <GW8RAK> Yes, that is the idea
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> the first piss bottle I saw was in the movie "Car Wash"
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that?
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnxies4Wtk
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> However - I can't view it as my ISP is being utterly shit.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> no
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> lol the bollocks signs
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> in that movie it's all about an american car wash
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> which is semi-automatic, so it has the machines and some workers
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> and an elderly man takes a juice bottle from one worker because he has to go to the doctors afterwards with a urine sample
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> and when he comes out of the WC, he stumbles and the bottle goes flying
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> and all were like "GET DOWN!"
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> and the bottle smashes on the ground and one of the workers is like "That's PISS!"
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[22:28] <iNatrium> Come on, British beer is not *that* bad
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL SpeedEvil
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> they didn't start to sing and already items fly through the air
[22:29] <GW8RAK> YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:29] <fsphil> lol
[22:29] <GW8RAK> Decoding data at 720Hz shift!
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> you know what?
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> people of Reading are good at ballistics :)
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> lol smoke bomb on stage
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[22:41] <fsphil> wb GW8RAK
[22:42] <GW8RAK> Another firefox crash.
[22:43] <GW8RAK> Radio silent for a while. I can see I'll be driven mad by that modulation.
[22:44] <GW8RAK> A satisfying evening.
[22:44] <GW8RAK> There is an altenative way of outputting the data and I may try that and add any number of stop bits as required.
[22:48] <fsphil> number of stop bits *shouldn't* matter, but >1.5 seems to work better than 1
[22:51] <sbasuita> wooo reading \m/
[22:54] <GW8RAK> I believe that 1.5 or 2 allows fldigi to synchronise better.
[22:54] <fsphil> indeed
[22:54] <fsphil> possibly a flaw in fldigi
[22:55] <sbasuita> yeah we found that too
[22:55] <sbasuita> using 1 it kept losing sync after each message
[22:55] <Laurenceb> fldigi is massively flawed
[22:56] <Laurenceb> i got orders of magnitude low ber with an octave script
[22:56] <Laurenceb> the bit slicing implimentation is really poor
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 24 2010