highaltitude.log.20101119

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[04:44] <juxta> ping Darkside, shenki
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[06:32] <m1x10> Morning all
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[09:40] <earthshine> morning
[09:54] <juxta> morning earthshine
[09:54] <earthshine> hey
[09:55] <juxta> how's things?
[09:55] <earthshine> Not bad - you?
[09:55] <juxta> all well here
[09:55] <juxta> have you finished off your book? :)
[09:56] <earthshine> Yeah - all done
[09:57] <juxta> neat
[09:57] <juxta> has it been published?
[09:58] <earthshine> yeah its up for pre-sale on Amazon and is on the shelves 3rd Dec
[09:58] <juxta> well done :)
[09:58] <juxta> will you be selling it on your site too?
[09:59] <earthshine> oh yeah
[10:00] <Elwell> URL?
[10:00] <earthshine> for?
[10:00] <Elwell> book (amazon + referrer code)
[10:01] <earthshine> http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Arduino-Michael-McRoberts/dp/1430232404/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1289477957&sr=8-1
[10:01] <earthshine> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1430232404/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=14BM30HNEVEMMJRZN422&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294
[10:03] <earthshine> the actual cover image isn't up yet
[10:04] <earthshine> This is the cover art: http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/Images/astronomy/begardcover.jpg
[10:05] <juxta> good job
[10:05] <juxta> are ther others by you too?
[10:05] <earthshine> No - first one
[10:06] <juxta> ah right - so they're released by 'TIA'?
[10:06] <earthshine> Apress
[10:09] <juxta> ah - just checked out their cite
[10:09] <juxta> site even
[10:09] <juxta> i recognise the yellow and black covers
[10:13] <earthshine> yep
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[10:14] <mixio> Hi
[10:14] <earthshine> hi
[10:15] <mixio> juxta did u happen to ask your friends about fsa03 ?
[10:15] <mixio> hi earthshine
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[10:15] <juxta> mixio, none that I can get my hands on unfortunatley
[10:15] <mixio> :(
[10:16] <juxta> unfortunately* even
[10:16] <juxta> that reminds me - earthshine, did that FSA03 ship in the end?
[10:16] <earthshine> yeah
[10:16] <earthshine> sure it wont be long
[10:16] <juxta> awesome, thanks :)
[10:17] <juxta> have you had a chance to work on your payload again earthshine?
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[10:36] <earthshine> I'll be working on it very soon - want to go for a January launch
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[12:05] <Laurenceb_> hi
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[12:11] <m1x10> Why my internet sucks?
[12:11] <m1x10> Why this country sucks?
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[12:38] <earthshine> ?!
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[13:10] <Laurenceb_> how is country sucks
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/avago-technologies/mga-71543-blkg/amp-low-noise-gaas-smd-sot3434/dp/1347205
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> interesting - lna with bypass switch - i might use that for the sdr so it can tx still
[13:13] <shenki> juxta: pong
[13:13] <shenki> juxta: i have the nut board
[13:13] <juxta> heya shenki
[13:13] <shenki> juxta: danny also gave us components(!)
[13:13] <juxta> awesome
[13:13] <juxta> wow!
[13:14] <juxta> what'd he give you?
[13:14] <shenki> i didn't ask for them, but he had all the ones he could figure out from the schematic in a bag for me
[13:14] <shenki> unfortuantly the board isn't perfect; due to the narrow track widths there is some re-work required
[13:15] <shenki> he's willing to re-do the board with a revised design (essentially making the tracks slightly wider so that the machine can make them properly)
[13:15] <shenki> but he's also given us some thin wire do do the reworking
[13:15] <juxta> hehe, that's nice of him :)
[13:15] <juxta> thanks dude!
[13:15] <shenki> anyway, i've been drinking beers all night, so i will explain properly another time
[13:15] <juxta> haha
[13:15] <juxta> surprising that the machine didn't handle the tracks
[13:16] <juxta> they're only 0.5mm, not all that small
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[13:16] <shenki> the problem was that the milling machine draws quite wide channels
[13:16] <DarkCow> g
[13:16] <juxta> hmm, righto
[13:16] <shenki> so the tracks end up being quite small, once you etch either side
[13:16] <DarkCow> woops
[13:16] <juxta> so rather the space between tracks is the important bit
[13:16] <shenki> a few of the pads fell off when he was punching the vias
[13:17] <shenki> (which is why it requires rework)
[13:17] <juxta> vias hey
[13:17] <juxta> you mean just holes?
[13:17] Action: juxta wondered how effective the win32 forkbomb example on wiki would be - turns out it's very effective and I have to go reboot my workbench pc
[13:19] <shenki> juxta: err, yeah, holes
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Be careful! http://xkcd.com/419/ Fork bomb variants can be nasty!
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb:
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/19/0449226/Laser-Camera-Can-See-Around-Corners
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> I mentioned a while ago tissue imagery using prompt photons only.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Same sort of idea.
[13:27] <shenki> juxta: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RLffobnz-uZD7qlZcjt-JA?feat=directlink
[13:27] <shenki> juxta: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NWwBKHqLcgR3tM4lHuUwHQ?feat=directlink
[13:27] <shenki> horribly blurry, but that's what things look like
[13:28] <juxta> oh cool
[13:28] <juxta> i spy a bit of a problem though
[13:28] <shenki> you can see two of the on the rihgt side have been lost
[13:29] <juxta> yeah
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[13:29] <juxta> the CNC didn't route out the ground plane exclusion zones either :(
[13:29] <shenki> that's the dotted lines?
[13:30] <juxta> yeah
[13:30] <shenki> danny explained that he thought they shoudln't have been cut, but they have been cut
[13:30] <juxta> ah right - basically they define a polygon where there shouldn't be a plane
[13:30] <juxta> ie groundplane
[13:30] <shenki> oh, okay
[13:30] <shenki> instead his gerber showed them as a channel that should be cut
[13:30] <shenki> so there's seperation, but still a plane
[13:31] <juxta> yeah
[13:31] <juxta> it should be OK
[13:31] <juxta> might need some hand scraping in areas :)
[13:31] <shenki> i have a copy of the gerber printed out on paper, and he's highlighted areas where he thought there were errors
[13:31] <shenki> he sounded very keen to iterate a few times,and get the design working with the tools he has
[13:31] <shenki> so if you're keen to do the work, he's keen to fab them :)
[13:31] <juxta> awesome :D
[13:32] <shenki> and he's quite keen to give out components, despite mark and i assuring him we didn't need them :)
[13:32] <juxta> hehe
[13:32] <Darkside> juxta: when i get around to it, i'll remake the board in altium
[13:32] <juxta> that's really good of you guys - thanks a bunch :)
[13:32] <juxta> oh dont worry there's a new one in the works ;p
[13:32] <Darkside> then at least i know it will work
[13:32] <Darkside> heh ok
[13:33] <shenki> cool, sounds good guys
[13:33] <Darkside> make it SMD :)
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[13:33] <shenki> you can help me build my audio/NES controller breakout board :)
[13:33] <Darkside> shenki: haha
[13:33] <Darkside> that should be easy
[13:33] <shenki> Darkside: how did the exam go today?
[13:33] <Darkside> okayish
[13:33] <Darkside> nesimi gave us some horrible questions
[13:34] <Darkside> first class honours is looking not so likely anymore :(
[13:34] <juxta> oh darn
[13:34] <juxta> any more exams now Darkside ?
[13:35] <shenki> Darkside: stay positive :)
[13:35] <Darkside> juxta: nope i'm done
[13:35] Action: shenki -> bed, goodnight guys
[13:35] <Darkside> shenki: oh i passed it for sure
[13:35] <Darkside> its just by how much
[13:35] <Darkside> anyway
[13:35] <shenki> im off to yorke pensuila for the weeked, see you on tuesday
[13:35] <Darkside> juxta: SMD version! :D
[13:35] <shenki> Darkside: cool, congrats on finishing :D
[13:35] <Darkside> make it tiny
[13:35] <juxta> okay - will you be along tuesday shenki?
[13:35] <juxta> Darkside, toying with the idea, hehe
[13:36] <Darkside> then you can use a bigger chip
[13:36] <shenki> juxta: im really keen
[13:36] <Darkside> maybe something with multiple UARTS
[13:36] <Darkside> then we can do some interesting things
[13:36] <shenki> juxta: any chance i could catch a ride with you?
[13:36] <juxta> yeah that should be possible
[13:36] <Darkside> shenki: minelab interview @ 8am monday >_>
[13:36] <shenki> okay, i will give you a call on monday when i get back to adelaide
[13:36] <Darkside> fuu
[13:36] <juxta> the more the merrier on tues i think, adrian will probably need people to make up crew in his car
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[13:36] <shenki> Darkside: sweet!
[13:36] <Darkside> shenki: you gonna be in at uni on monday?
[13:36] <NigeyMoby> Afternoon
[13:37] <Darkside> will probably meet matt around 10amish
[13:37] <shenki> Darkside: oh, sorell
[13:37] <Darkside> since i have another codan interview at 2pm
[13:37] <Darkside> freaking codan interviews
[13:37] <shenki> Darkside: hrm, i was planning to be down the coast still. i might have to come home early
[13:37] <Darkside> should just make neil interview me on sunday <_<
[13:37] <Darkside> lol
[13:38] <juxta> have a good trip shenki
[13:38] <shenki> juxta: cheers
[13:38] <shenki> Darkside: i'll be in touch re: monday, chances are i wont be back for 10am :(, but we'll see
[13:38] <NigeyMoby> Hey juxta
[13:38] <Darkside> shenki: email back then
[13:38] Action: shenki -> bed
[13:38] <juxta> hey NigeyMoby :)
[13:39] <NigeyMoby> Recovered from your payload adventure yet?
[13:39] <Darkside> :/
[13:39] <juxta> haha
[13:39] <juxta> yes thanks
[13:40] <NigeyMoby> Hehe gdgd
[13:40] <Darkside> woah 30 degrees on sunday
[13:40] <juxta> 38 later in the week i hear too
[13:40] <Darkside> 35 on tuesday
[13:40] <juxta> and my AC still hasn't been installed :(
[13:40] <Darkside> http://www.bom.gov.au/sa/forecasts/adelaide.shtml
[13:40] <NigeyMoby> Bah its about 7 here
[13:40] <juxta> electrician was supposed to come around today
[13:41] <juxta> but noo
[13:42] <NigeyMoby> Aren't u still in spring?
[13:42] <juxta> i guess so
[13:42] <juxta> does summer start in nov or dec here Darkside?
[13:42] <NigeyMoby> Dam 35 in spring, crazy
[13:43] <Darkside> juxta: nfi
[13:43] <Darkside> i think its december
[13:43] <juxta> the unpleasant bit will be when it gets to 45
[13:43] <Darkside> or higher
[13:44] <juxta> yeah
[13:44] <Darkside> hmm might have to do a littlebird order soon
[13:44] <Darkside> get some stepper drivers, so i can get this tracking dish going
[13:44] <NigeyMoby> 45... bloody hell
[13:44] <Darkside> also gotta get a compass, a 2 axis accelerometer, and a few other things
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[13:45] <NigeyMoby> I'd be happy with 25 lol
[13:45] <juxta> i can give you a compass Darkside
[13:46] <Darkside> compass module
[13:46] <juxta> yeah
[13:46] <juxta> i have one, i think it's SPI
[13:46] <Darkside> oh cool
[13:46] <Darkside> that'll work
[13:46] <juxta> maybe i2c
[13:46] <juxta> got the manual etc too
[13:46] <Darkside> theres probably an arduino lib for it
[13:46] <juxta> it's 2 axis, not tilt compensated
[13:47] <Darkside> thts fine
[13:47] <NigeyMoby> Hm can't find a tab button on this android keyboard
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[13:48] <Darkside> ideally i'll have the tripod level anyway
[13:49] <Darkside> i'll have an accelerometer on the altitude arm to measure the angle of tilt
[13:49] <Darkside> unless you can think of a better way of measuring the tilt altitude angle
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[13:49] <juxta> trigonometry
[13:49] <juxta> oh wait, you mean for feedback
[13:49] <Darkside> yeah
[13:50] <Darkside> so i can tell it to point to a certain altitude and azimith
[13:50] <Darkside> azimuth will be controlled by the compass
[13:50] <Darkside> altitude... not sure
[13:50] <juxta> if the steppers are true, you shouldnt need feedback though, right?
[13:50] <Darkside> but i dont want to do it open loop
[13:51] <Darkside> i'd prefer to have some kind of calibration
[13:51] <Darkside> so i can just set it up, and turn it on
[13:51] <Darkside> and it will point correctly
[13:51] <Darkside> ideally all i'll need to do is tell it where it is
[13:51] <juxta> yeah, true
[13:51] <juxta> accel would do the job then i guess for elevation
[13:51] <Darkside> yeah
[13:52] <Darkside> i'll need to work out some code to give me the azimuth and elevation to point between 2 gps coords
[13:52] <Darkside> taking into account earth curvature of course
[13:53] <juxta> that shouldn't be too hard :)
[13:53] <juxta> brb this client is giving me grief
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[13:55] <Darkside> i just found formulae to do it :)
[13:55] <Darkside> not sure if i'll want to do the calculations on the system itself
[13:55] <Darkside> i think it will be safer to just sent over data via serial
[13:56] <Darkside> send*
[13:56] <Darkside> i.e. 270.0,45.1
[13:56] <Darkside> and have the antenna's drive system work out how to get there
[13:56] <Darkside> in particular not to loop cables
[13:57] <juxta> get matt to give you his atmega RTTY decoder code and do it all on 1 board :D
[13:57] <Darkside> >_>
[13:57] <Darkside> yeeeeeeeeeeeah
[13:57] <Darkside> nah
[13:57] <juxta> hehe
[13:57] <Darkside> i was going to use an arduino to run it all
[13:58] <Darkside> im gonna have to have batteries with it too, as i think the steppers take 24V or something
[13:58] <Darkside> haven't checked that actually
[13:58] <Darkside> they are reasonably chunky stepper motors
[13:58] <Darkside> anyway, back in a bit
[13:59] <juxta> alrighty
[13:59] <juxta> i might head to bed soon
[14:00] <NigeyMoby> Bout 2am there?
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[14:05] <Darkside> 00:35
[14:07] <NigeyMoby> Close..
[14:07] <Darkside> :P
[14:11] <NigeyMoby> Hm I think I've been asked a trick question
[14:16] <jonsowman> NigeyMoby: how did your resistor sorting go?
[14:17] <NigeyMoby> I gave up and did some pracice soldering lol
[14:18] <NigeyMoby> Practice*
[14:18] <jonsowman> hehe
[14:18] <NigeyMoby> Def need a fine tip
[14:25] <NigeyMoby> Wonder if anyone's put a cosmic ray detector on a Jan
[14:25] <NigeyMoby> Jan
[14:25] <NigeyMoby> Grr
[14:25] <NigeyMoby> Hab*
[14:26] <jonsowman> we flew GM tubes on Apex II
[14:26] <jonsowman> http://www.hexoc.com/pages/apex/apex-ii/data.php
[14:26] <jonsowman> 4th graph in the 1st screenshot
[14:26] <NigeyMoby> Oo
[14:26] <jonsowman> they were small generic ionising radiation detectors
[14:26] <jonsowman> made by Centronics
[14:27] <jonsowman> powered by a camera flash inverter
[14:29] <NigeyMoby> Phones not loading the page grr
[14:29] <jonsowman> NigeyMoby: http://www.apexhab.org/gallery/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0778
[14:31] <NigeyMoby> Bah ill have to jump on the desktop
[14:38] Action: Laurenceb_ has lsm303dlh samples
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> 3 of them as well XD
[14:39] <Laurenceb_> - magno+accel ic
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[15:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/5513
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> looks nice for SDR applications
[15:06] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: so I think I get what you plan to do with the phase shifting via frequency modulation
[15:06] <Randomskk> is it a bit like https://randomskk.net/u/psk.png
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> red is a spike on the ntx2 control voltage?
[15:07] <Randomskk> the whole thing is the transmitted signal
[15:07] <Randomskk> red is a sudden shift to a higher frequency
[15:07] <Randomskk> so yes, during the red the ntx2 control voltage goes up quickly
[15:07] <Randomskk> then down again
[15:08] <Randomskk> exactly half a cycle of the higher frequency later
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats what i thought
[15:08] <Randomskk> you'd have to time it just right
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> of course, it wont work 100%
[15:08] <Randomskk> leave it for a whole cycle and you'd get 0 shift
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> but it should shift the phase within +-10% or better
[15:08] <Randomskk> using the higher frequency being 10x the lower gives you about 162 degrees shift
[15:08] <Randomskk> which seems like it could work
[15:08] <Randomskk> the higher that frequency, the better the shift
[15:09] <Randomskk> but the best you can do is about 100Hz to 10kHz
[15:09] <Randomskk> which is admittedly 100 times, which gives you a shift of
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> have you actually tied this?
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> *tried
[15:09] <Randomskk> not on an ntx2, I only worked out what really happens when you do this sudden votlage shift this morning
[15:09] <Randomskk> going to try it soon though
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> i see no reason why you couldnt get good precision
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> on my ntx2 module i have a setpot to set how much the pwm deviates the control voltage
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> the ntx2 is +-12.5khz, so say you have 300baud
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> and allow 0.3ms for a 180degree phase shift
[15:11] <Randomskk> I'd be very careful operating right at the extremes
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> thats +-1.5khz shift
[15:11] <Randomskk> also not sure what the total deviation of the ntx2 is and how linear it is to the input
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> so nothing like the extremes
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> and yes its only linear around the midpoint
[15:12] <Randomskk> but if you used 0.3ms as your pulse duration
[15:12] <Randomskk> that implies a higher frequency of 1.5khz, as you say
[15:13] <Randomskk> if the lowest you can get your low frequency is about 100hz when tuned on ssb
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> huh
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> it could be 1GHz
[15:13] <Randomskk> that's like, 168 degrees shift
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> its completely irrelivant
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> that frequency isnt "real"
[15:14] <Randomskk> well I mean, it kind of is
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> its just a glitch in the output, you dont want to receive it
[15:14] <Randomskk> yea, but the ntx2 has to be able to do it
[15:14] <Randomskk> you can't go outside of its vco range
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> why do you think proper psk has blanking intervals
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> 1.5khz is miles inside the vco range
[15:14] <Randomskk> it'l be out of the audio passband and fldigi won't see it, but it's still gotta stay inside the ntx2's possible deviation or it can't outpu tit
[15:14] <Randomskk> yea, 1.5khz is fine
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:15] <Randomskk> but at 1.5khz above a carrier tuned to, say, 100hz (depending on the receiver's ssb)
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> its completely irrelivant if its inside any passbands at rx
[15:15] <Randomskk> you only actually get 168 degrees shift
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> you only need a bandwidth of the baud rate for bpsk
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> as you are only interested in carrier phase
[15:15] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/psk.png is the waveform fldigi would see (if it could see DC to 10kHz anyway) if you did 100hz as your carrier and 1khz as your deviation
[15:16] <Randomskk> the shift from blue to green is 162 degrees
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> ok
[15:16] <Randomskk> it's all slightly more timing critical, so I don't know how well it would work when things get cold, either
[15:16] <Randomskk> but jonsowman and I plan to test it a bit
[15:17] <Randomskk> it's a really, really neat idea if it works
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> the shift sensitivity changes
[15:17] <Randomskk> and the frequency itself does
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> thats why i mentioned +-10% earlier
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> from looking at atlas datalogs
[15:17] <Randomskk> you want the deviated frequency to be as higher above the carrier as possible in ratio terms
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> the absolute worst case sensitivity shift seems to be +-10%
[15:18] <Randomskk> since your shift is pi - (pi / ratio)
[15:18] <Randomskk> where ratio is deviated freq / carrier freq
[15:18] <Randomskk> but you can't control the carrier freq, that depends on the tuning of the receiver radio in SSB
[15:18] <Randomskk> and your deviated frequency has to be within the ntx2's deviation range, plus your pulse length has to match the deviated frequency to ensure you get one half cycle
[15:19] <Randomskk> hmm... theoretically if you played with the pulse width you could actually get back to 180 shift
[15:19] <Randomskk> interesting thought
[15:19] <Randomskk> could really do with some feedback on the radio, then you could adjust for temperature pretty easily.
[15:19] <Randomskk> ah, but you don't know the received carrier frequency, so that's not much help
[15:19] <Randomskk> the shift is dependent on the pulse width, the carrier frequency and the deviated frequency
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> it shouldnt matter
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> if you use the standard psk technique
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> look for changes in phase
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> not absolute phase
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[15:20] <Laurenceb_> then use a fll to track the carrier
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> avoiding plls
[15:21] <Randomskk> yea, I know, but your change in phase varies with pulse width, carrier frequency and deviated frequency nevertheless
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah - but as long as fll can cope
[15:22] <Randomskk> e.g. if your deviated frequency moved down to your carrier frequency, or your carrier frequency moved up to your deviated frequency, you'd get no phase shift
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> say 300 baud, with 10% shift error
[15:22] <Randomskk> if the pulse width was twice that required for 180 shift, you'd get 360
[15:22] <Randomskk> I wonder how strongly it will all go with temperature
[15:22] <Randomskk> like you say though
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> thats 15hz data dependant frequency error
[15:22] <Randomskk> you can probably get within 10% shift error
[15:22] <Randomskk> also 300 baud would be a very unusual choice
[15:23] <Randomskk> 125, 250 or 500 would be more common
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[15:24] <Laurenceb_> i looked at atlas log data to see howe it would go with temperature
[15:24] <NigeySWales> sorry about that jonsowman my phone kept losing wireless, do you have thoselinks again ?
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> <10%
[15:24] <Randomskk> should be fair enough
[15:24] <NigeySWales> hi laurenceb_ Randomskk
[15:24] Action: Laurenceb_ gets back to trying to find an lna
[15:24] <Randomskk> NigeySWales: jonsowman's out for a bit, which links? http://www.apexhab.org/gallery/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0778 ?
[15:25] <NigeySWales> ah that's the 1, thanks Randomskk
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> MGA-71543 looks good
[15:38] <Laurenceb_> neat board
[15:39] <Laurenceb_> how do you generate the hv ?
[15:39] <Randomskk> think that's Matt_soton's handiwork
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[15:46] <jonsowman> sorry NigeySWales, was afk
[15:47] <NigeySWales> no worries, wireless crapped out in the car :/
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> lnas are annoying
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> so much matching stuff
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> wonder if a tv masthead amp could be hacked
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Some are/were nearly in-band
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> needs to run of 3.3v...
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/rf_ics_discretes/rf_ics/demonstration_circuit_boards/demo-mga-71543/
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> wish that was in stock
[16:03] <NigeySWales> hm, would it be wise to invest in a RTC for the arduino, rather than relying solely on the GPS time ?
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[16:14] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dastv.co.uk/shop/Proception_MHD_11L_Masthead_Amp_9db_2315.php
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> bet that could be hacked to remove the <470mhz filter
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[16:27] <Laurenceb_> http://www.aerialsuperstore.co.uk/cryptik-horizon-to-horizon-motorised-mount-57-p.asp
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> how many dof does that have?
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[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: 1 I think
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> it's a polar mount
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[18:15] <fsphil> yes! annoying dl-fldigi random crash bug fixed -- I think
[18:23] <NigeySWales> hy fsphil
[18:23] <NigeySWales> hey*
[18:24] <fsphil> g'day NigeySWales
[18:24] <fsphil> it's the weekend! yay
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[18:25] <NigeySWales> yey! :D and congrats on fixing the bug
[18:25] <NigeySWales> i finally have my morse code sketch working properly!
[18:25] <fsphil> ooh, sketch?
[18:25] <NigeySWales> arduino sketch thingie
[18:26] <NigeySWales> although im sure the buzzer should be louder than this
[18:26] <fsphil> aah, it's what they call a program
[18:27] <NigeySWales> that's the 1 lol
[18:27] <fsphil> are you driving the buzzer directly from the pin?
[18:27] <fsphil> there might not be enough ma to run it
[18:27] <jonsowman> hmm
[18:27] <jonsowman> hang on
[18:27] <NigeySWales> yeah, its a 3 - 15v buzzer
[18:27] <NigeySWales> got a 470ohm resistor there to
[18:28] <fsphil> is it louder if you connect it to the 5v directly?
[18:28] <NigeySWales> *checks*
[18:28] Action: fsphil waits for the bang
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[18:29] <NigeySWales> nope, same, and multimeter shows same readings to, highest is 1.7v
[18:29] <fsphil> you could probably get away with a smaller resistor
[18:29] <fsphil> though I'd measure the current its using, incase it's too much for the avr
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[18:51] Nick change: laurence_ -> Laurenceb__
[18:51] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb
[18:52] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:52] Action: Laurenceb drools over lsm303dlh samples XD
[18:52] <fsphil> evening
[18:53] <fsphil> you wired up a transistor before?
[18:53] <fsphil> that's to NigeySWales
[18:53] <NigeySWales> haha nope
[18:53] <NigeySWales> bang time ?
[18:55] <fsphil> nah, just read up on them a bit before wiring
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[19:03] <NigeySWales> hm phil im not sure i need it
[19:03] <NigeySWales> the mega has a current of 40ma per pin not 20
[19:06] <fsphil> aah, that's fairly high
[19:06] <NigeySWales> yeah, my fault sorry forgot to mention it was the mega 2560
[19:07] <NigeySWales> still reading up on transistors though, gonna come across them sooner or later
[19:07] <fsphil> they can be fun!
[19:08] <NigeySWales> so it seems, lots of weird modes they can be used in to
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[20:10] <Laurenceb> https://estore.rfmd.com/RFMD_Onlinestore/Products/RFMD+Parts/PID-P_RFRX5933A.aspx
[20:10] <Laurenceb> yum
[20:10] <Laurenceb> anyone for multighz comms
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[20:13] <Laurenceb> stick an AD synthesiser on the front...
[20:13] <Laurenceb> https://estore.rfmd.com/RFMD_Onlinestore/Products/RFMD+Parts/PID-P_SPF-5122Z.aspx?VariantID=SPF5122ZSQ
[20:14] <Laurenceb> nice as well - perfect for integrating into a yagi
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[20:30] <GW8RAK> Have wondered about a GHz downlink for video.
[20:30] <Randomskk> free space path loss kills you
[20:30] <Randomskk> with more tx power you could try
[20:31] <Randomskk> certainly satellites manage
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[20:31] <Randomskk> with a full license you get access to some pretty silly bands - it's a real shame we can't operate airborne
[20:31] <Randomskk> there's 2ghz of bandwidth at 248-250GHz we are the primary users of
[20:31] <Randomskk> 2ghz bandwidth!
[20:31] <Randomskk> that's like everything from DC to wifi
[20:31] <GW8RAK> Wideband 10GHz is very easy and will give 100mile range or more. The record is about 250miles
[20:32] <Randomskk> from an amateur radio station sure, but from a balloon that can only fly license exempt modules?
[20:32] <GW8RAK> We might do better going to terahertz and using a small laser module
[20:32] <Randomskk> pointing it is bloody hard
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[20:33] <GW8RAK> Since the GPS knows where the balloon is, could it not have an onboard rotator to keep it pointing at the ground station?
[20:33] <Randomskk> the balloon payload tends to swing wildly and rotate and other things
[20:34] <Randomskk> eroomde here actually did a lot of work into that, for pointing a camera/telescope at a given point in space
[20:34] <Randomskk> I'm not sure how far he got with it but I understand it was a little complicated
[20:34] <GW8RAK> I never said it was going to be easy :-)
[20:34] <Randomskk> :P
[20:35] <Randomskk> anything would be a step up from 50 baud rtty
[20:37] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:38] Action: Laurenceb is wondering if he could dead bug coax onto that lna
[20:38] <Laurenceb> its 2mm square
[20:39] <Laurenceb> the commercial yagis have a little black plastic enclosure with a coax connector on usually dont they?
[20:39] <Randomskk> yea
[20:39] <Laurenceb> how is the alu ant rod connected up inside?
[20:39] Action: Laurenceb googles for photos
[20:39] <GW8RAK> How it is attached to the active element?
[20:40] <Randomskk> typically through some kind of balun
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/board/10255799
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> On-topic genius
[20:41] <GW8RAK> There are a variety of feeds. For 70cms, this is quite a good antenna http://www.g6lvb.com/HomebrewArrow.htm
[20:41] <Laurenceb> im lazy
[20:42] <Laurenceb> was planning on buying one - wondering if i could hack a SPF-5122Z inside
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[20:45] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/7033032.html nice and cheapish
[20:45] <Laurenceb> oh i read for 5 units doh
[20:52] <fsphil> could something like a DLP projector be used for aiming a laser?
[20:53] <GW8RAK> At that price, albeit ex VAT and delivery, I'm sure this group could do a group buy and get 5.
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: not reasonably
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: As you thow away 99.99999% of the light
[20:54] <fsphil> is the dlp not just a moveable mirror?
[20:54] <fsphil> lots of mirrors
[20:55] <fsphil> do something like that but with just a single laser and mirror
[20:55] <Laurenceb> you can buy single axis or dual axis mirrors
[20:56] <Laurenceb> with +-30degrees on each axis - ~<£100
[20:57] <Laurenceb> 1mm scale optic area tho, so youd need to bounce the laser beam into a scope
[20:57] <Laurenceb> giving limited slew angle
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:37] <Laurenceb> aimed scope with mems mirror for the fine aiming might work
[21:38] <fsphil> a very small mirror, with some way to move it quickly
[21:38] <fsphil> even with a good way to aim it, would still have to know where to aim it
[21:38] <Laurenceb> as i said you can buy them off the shelf for <£100 if you know the right people
[21:38] <fsphil> that's the tricky bit
[21:39] <Laurenceb> some kind of spiral with prn
[21:39] <Laurenceb> and a downlink from the balloon to let you know when you are hitting it
[21:39] <Laurenceb> or something like that
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[21:40] <Laurenceb> on the other hand... we built a ~300GHz spectrometer at uni...
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> are you trying to do a balloon-borne telescope?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> LN2 cooled bare die thermopile sensor
[21:42] <Laurenceb> does anyone even make transistors that fast?
[21:43] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, laser communications
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:44] <fsphil> I read somewhere (can't remember now) where the base station fired a laser at the remote target, which contained a special mirror that reflected the light back towards the source
[21:44] <fsphil> but covered with an LCD to module the beam
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:44] <fsphil> dunno if there'd be enough reflection to make it useful with a small laser
[21:45] <fsphil> but it would be a lot easier to aim
[21:47] <fsphil> hmm.. still got a memory leak in dl-fldigi but at least it isn't crashing now
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[21:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.millimeterwave.com/ILO.html
[21:51] <Laurenceb> not high enough
[21:52] <Laurenceb> but highly insane
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> can you even shoot hi-power lasers into the sky?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I assume this is an air traffic danger
[21:56] <Laurenceb> aha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrotron
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[21:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.gyrotron.org/ lulwut
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[22:01] <natrium42> hi people and sheeple
[22:02] <Laurenceb> look at all the sheeple subdued by the chemitrails
[22:03] <natrium42> wake up sheeple
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[22:03] <fsphil> baa?
[22:03] <natrium42> guten abend alle miteinander
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[22:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.bariumblues.com/
[22:06] <Laurenceb> "Some investigators think these lines are strongly indicative of particle-beams"
[22:07] <Laurenceb> its obviously true
[22:07] <fsphil> hah
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[22:08] <fsphil> I saw one of those dark lines once -- most definitely a shadow
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[22:42] <Laurenceb> 250ghz looks like unobtanium
[22:42] <Laurenceb> especially for rx
[22:43] <Laurenceb> maybe you could derive the frequency optically or something
[22:43] <Randomskk> 250ghz is crazy hard
[22:43] <Randomskk> I don't know why hams are licensed for it. wonder if any have ever transmitted
[22:46] <Laurenceb> i wonder if anyone has txed it
[22:46] <Laurenceb> apart from mit gyrotron project
[22:47] <Laurenceb> and darpa death ray
[22:47] <Laurenceb> iirc the death ray is <100ghz
[22:48] <Laurenceb> hmm optical mixer with 2 lasers maybe
[22:48] <Laurenceb> gunn diodes are <150ghz
[22:48] <Laurenceb> i know - black body
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[22:49] <fsphil> 83ghz square wave, and some filtering ;)
[22:49] <Randomskk> yea
[22:49] <Laurenceb> at uni we used an incandescent bulb for the thermopile based spectrometer
[22:49] <Randomskk> just get a nice LC pair to filter out the 250ghz
[22:49] <Laurenceb> yeah but generating 83ghz square wave...
[22:50] <Randomskk> I don't think an LC for 250ghz is very easy either
[22:50] <Laurenceb> i mean 83ghz is possible but it wont be very square
[22:50] <fsphil> true
[22:50] <Randomskk> above 100ghz is very very hard
[22:50] <Randomskk> and fspl goes way up
[22:50] <Laurenceb> fspl?
[22:51] <Randomskk> free space path loss
[22:51] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:51] <fsphil> could something like a prism be made for the millimetre waves? like a crude tuner
[22:51] <Laurenceb> i saw a proposal for ssto with gyrotrons
[22:51] <Laurenceb> yes - been done
[22:52] <Laurenceb> using liquid hydrogen propellant and 100ghz beamed power
[22:52] <fsphil> yikes
[22:53] <Laurenceb> proposed turning a mountain on an unihabited pacific island into a nuclear powered multi gigawatt pphased array
[22:53] <Laurenceb> - nasa paper :P
[22:54] <Laurenceb> it should have been called project blofeld
[22:54] <fsphil> just lacks a volcano
[22:55] <Laurenceb> you could filter with printed comb pickups in waveguides
[22:55] <Laurenceb> at that frequency
[22:56] <Laurenceb> i know, dump into a resistor and measure its temperature
[23:01] <Laurenceb> hmm... not sure if the comb idea would work - havent seen it in use
[23:04] <Laurenceb> Ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita
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[23:13] <jcoxon> evening all
[23:13] <jcoxon> updated some data from the launch
[23:13] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:atlas:atlas1#temperature_vs_time
[23:18] <fsphil> that's a nice blue line
[23:20] <jcoxon> stable
[23:21] <fsphil> on the first attempt too
[23:21] <fsphil> that's a nice bit of work
[23:22] <fsphil> what sort of power was the oven using? does it have a big impact on battery life?
[23:22] <jcoxon> no idea - didn't get round to measuring it
[23:23] <jcoxon> will do next time
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[23:32] <RocketBoy> hi guys - there is a launch tomorrow @ about 10:30 - if anyone can help with tracking
[23:33] <natrium42> what's the payload?
[23:34] <RocketBoy> its mainly a camera test
[23:34] <fsphil> will give it a try RocketBoy, though I haven't had much luck lately :)
[23:34] <RocketBoy> some HD GoPros
[23:34] <fsphil> nice
[23:35] <RocketBoy> anyway - night all - got an early start
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 20 2010