[00:00] <Laurenceb> so that peak is the start of the packet, that data is passed to the discriminator
[00:00] <fsphil> you actually search for the frequency of the header, rather than decoding first?
[00:00] <Laurenceb> - frequency + time data
[00:01] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:01] <Laurenceb> i run a 2d convolution based search for packet headers
[00:01] <Laurenceb> in time frequency space
[00:01] <fsphil> interesting idea
[00:01] <Laurenceb> overkill but awesome
[00:02] <Laurenceb> allows lots of clever stuff
[00:02] <Laurenceb> e.g. multiple payloads offset by time and frequency
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> how much below rtty 'noise' does that go?
[00:02] <Laurenceb> or aquiring really weak signals by using tons of fec on the rest of the packet
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> As '$$icarus' has quite a lot of coding gain
[00:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:03] <Laurenceb> ~64 bits
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[00:04] <Laurenceb> all that noise is due to it correlating with the data
[00:04] <Laurenceb> you can see the start/stop bits syncing and giving all the little spikes
[00:05] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/IAPHu.png
[00:05] <Laurenceb> thats some descriminator output in time freuency space
[00:05] <Laurenceb> data stream is vertical down the middle
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[00:06] <SpeedEvil> So the offset peaks are high and low modulation?
[00:06] <Laurenceb> yes
[00:06] <Laurenceb> the discriminator sides hit the low/high moulation
[00:07] <Laurenceb> bit i think this idea would be more appropriate with psk and a ton of fec on the packet contents
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:09] <Laurenceb> im tempted to write a binary psk mode
[00:09] <Laurenceb> ditch the varicode
[00:09] <Laurenceb> send floats down for the lat long alt etc
[00:11] <Laurenceb> anyway, night all
[00:11] <fsphil> night!
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[00:12] <natrium42> nn
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> noight!
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[00:22] Action: SpeedEvil is dissasembling a ceramic hob.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Damn these have to be useful for something.
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> coiled elements in little insulated tubs.
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[08:39] <earthshine> morning
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[10:13] <NigeySWales> morning peeps
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> morning
[10:19] <NigeySWales> my head hurts :(
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> :/
[10:23] <NigeySWales> how's you SpeedEvil ?
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> I am pondering getting up, or rolling over and going back to sleep.
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> Or doing both.
[10:25] <NigeySWales> lol, not up properly myself yet, but have be somewhere at 2pm, its just to dam cold to be bothered getting up!
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> Heating broken here - 7C inside.
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> Electric blanket ++
[10:26] <NigeySWales> bloody hell :(
[11:15] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-11759023
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Largely bull.
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Windows - signle pane windows - lose 5W/K/m^2
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> This is essentially never a significant overall component of the heat loss.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> Lying fucks.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> "There are issues, of course, with historic buildings but they are so well designed that they just need a little push to make sure that they are performing as well as the most modern buildings.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> Utter, utter cock.
[11:23] <russss> depends if you have fucking massive windows like I did
[11:24] <russss> s/did/do
[11:24] <GW8RAK> Feeling chuffed this morning as the core of the software is finished! Everything else is optional.
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> True, to an extent.
[11:24] <russss> also, surely closing curtains to keep the room warm isn't a huge revelation?
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> But closing the curtains is never going to make an essentially uninsulated building 'perform as well as the most modern buildings'.
[11:25] <russss> true
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> Indeed, this is the sort of thing teh double glazing industry has been pushing for years, largely unquestioned.
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> Double glazing a poorly insulated property is almost always the poorest investment you can make.
[11:27] <russss> yeah, roof insulation.
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> If that's doable, yes.
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> But first, draught sealing.
[11:28] <russss> yah
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> A few tubes of mastic and plastic strips can make a stupid difference, for their cost.
[11:28] <russss> yeah
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> then the not so easy, wall insulation
[11:30] Action: SpeedEvil stares at his partially complete wall insulation.
[11:30] <gm> double glazing is more for sound than temperature insulation
[11:32] <Laurenceb_> also solar water based space heating XD
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> yup.
[11:32] <Laurenceb_> you need a cellar filled with 90C water tho
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Well - not quite.
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Ideally, yes.
[11:33] <Laurenceb_> also have to hope you never fall through the floor or you'll get boiled :P
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Poached.
[11:33] <Laurenceb_> heh
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> But anyway - long term storage isn't really required - internal thermal mass will take you from day-day
[11:34] <Laurenceb_> yeah - i looked at storing over the entire year
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> And you can approach a kilowatt of heating needs if you superinsulate.
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> And at that point, it's possible to get often with passive solar gain
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> not really
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> well - for a lot of the year
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> if you back up with antoher heat source you dont need a thermal store
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> if you want just solar in the UK then you need a thermal store
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> I mean superuinsulate, so you need much, mych less heat
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> To the point where solar gain counts for a slice of it, and then normal heat from living adds a fair bit of the rest
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[11:45] <juxta> ping Darkside
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[12:20] <Darkside> juxta: pong
[12:20] <Darkside> i have 32 more AA lithiums >_>
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:51] Action: Laurenceb_ rages at tnt delivery
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> i can see the depot out of my window atm
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> but they need 2 days + passport id for me to turn up and collect
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> I hate companies that need to ask where you are twice.
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> they tried once to delivery to my house but i was out
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[12:54] <SpeedEvil> I give direction to first driver, he finds the place - I should never have to give directions again.
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> they refuse to deliver to business addresses if the origional address was non business
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> tried ringing them - got redirected to about 8 different call centers and 4 companies
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> What's it?
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> tnt - tnt parcels - tnt germany - home delivery network
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> stuff from conrad
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[12:56] <Laurenceb_> presently sitting in a little industrial part 100m down the road :/
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> *park
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Just got some high-temp silicone, so I can now fill in the holes in the halogen hob where the knobs used to be, and put the top on the induction hob.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Voila - 400 quid hob for 30 quid.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Well - sort-of.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> I could actually clean the paint off the back of it, repaint, and then it'd look almost perfect.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about using the broken one as a substrate for mirrors.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> As it's ~0 expansion glass/ceramic
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> It's a bit thin though.
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[14:00] <jkominar> Would someone mind going over the concept of "neck lift" with me please? I'm still not quite sure I get that. We have an interesting scenerio in that being a Canadian launch, we can only use 115 ft^3 of helium, so we have to work a bit backwards from the way the burst predictor on habhub goes at it.
[14:00] <jkominar> (only 115 ft^3 of gas without prior governmental approval that is, which we don't want to bother seeking)
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> From memory, that's 115ft^3 at any time
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Or a diameter of about 3.2m
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> but...
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[14:03] <SpeedEvil> neck lift is the force the neck lifts with.
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> It is (volume displaced * density difference between atmosphere and helium )-balloon weight
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> That looks sane, but I haven't woken up properly today.
[14:13] <jkominar> So by
[14:13] <jkominar> "at any time" you're implying that it'd be in violation as it gets higher up and expands?
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[14:41] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-density_parity-check_code
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> looks simple
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> to encode at least
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> jkominar: yes - this is from fuzzy memory though.
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[14:56] <jkominar> Interesting ... I'll have to follow up on that a little more carefully then, because that would totally screw this up :)
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[15:11] <GW8RAK> jkominar, because gases change so much with altitude and temperature, they are normally measured at STP, standard temperature and pressure which is 293K and 101.325KPa.
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[15:12] <GW8RAK> I would be very surprised if your regulations did not specify the measurement conditions.
[15:12] <jkominar> GW8RAK - I completely agree, however here is the reg: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm#602_42
[15:13] <jkominar> It specifies nothing about what atmospheric conditions it applies to :(
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[15:14] <GW8RAK> Typical poorly worded legislation. But it almost certainly would mean STP. Otherwise a balloon launched on top of a mountain could be illegal, while the same one launched at sea level would be legal.
[15:15] <jkominar> Yeah - that'd be my inclination as well.
[15:15] <GW8RAK> Or, if you can, just launch at sea level. It doesn't get around the legislation, but it does maximise you interpretation of it.
[15:16] <jkominar> I think the area we're intending on launching from is ~300m ASL
[15:16] <GW8RAK> Interesting thought. If you launched on top of a mountain, would the reduced amount of gas make up be compensated by the higher starting altitude?
[15:16] <GW8RAK> delete make up
[15:16] <NigeySWales> hey hey afternoon GW8RAK jkominar
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[15:17] <GW8RAK> Hi NiegySWales
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[15:17] <GW8RAK> Where did that come from? NigeySWales
[15:17] <NigeySWales> lol you're forgiven
[15:18] <jkominar> Still morning over here :)
[15:18] <NigeySWales> oh, where you to jkominar ?
[15:18] <jkominar> Ontario, Canada
[15:18] <jkominar> Waterloo - actually ... home of RIM and the Blackberry
[15:18] <GW8RAK> One of my girls here comes from Ontario
[15:18] <NigeySWales> ahh yes
[15:19] <NigeySWales> my nephew has signed up for the RAF :|
[15:19] <GW8RAK> What's he going to be doing?
[15:20] <NigeySWales> no idea, he was meant to stay at school and go to officer training? but now hes left sixth form and applied for something or other, has his tests on Dec 1st
[15:20] <GW8RAK> Good luck to him. They have nice comfy beds in the RAF
[15:20] <NigeySWales> haha bet theyre more comfy than my cadet bed when i was in crickhowell, oh wait it was a busy with a tarp that leaked!
[15:21] <NigeySWales> bush*
[15:21] <GW8RAK> bbl
[15:21] <NigeySWales> cya dude!
[15:21] <NigeySWales> jkominar, i didnt realise RIM were canadian lol
[15:22] <NigeySWales> you can tell ive never owned a blackberry cant you :P
[15:25] <jkominar> ha - yeah, I guess most people assume they're US since they play with the "big" boys like Apple and the like.
[15:26] <jkominar> But yes - RIM started, and is still corporate-HQ'd out of Waterloo here. They suck up most of the brain-trust that comes out of the University of Waterloo - Canada's spiritual equivalent to MIT in the states.
[15:26] <NigeySWales> ahh, i see, leat they use home grown talent :D
[15:27] <jkominar> yeah .. RIM's offices are literally next door to the university, so it's easy for them to suck up students via proximity alone
[15:27] <NigeySWales> oh how handy!
[15:27] <jkominar> So Nigey, are you a balloon vet? How many launches have you been involved yet?
[15:28] <jkominar> involved with..
[15:28] <NigeySWales> just embarking on my 1st
[15:28] <jkominar> Cool .. same with us.
[15:28] <NigeySWales> electronics newbie to, so its a bit of a challenge lol
[15:28] <jkominar> ditto :)
[15:29] <NigeySWales> helpful guys in here though
[15:29] <jkominar> how are you tracking your flight?
[15:29] <NigeySWales> gps via the ntx2 radio module
[15:29] <NigeySWales> will have a gsm backup to
[15:30] <jkominar> We have a gps as well, into an OpenTracker+ (from Argent Data Systems), into a SRB MX146 radio ... so we're tracking via the APRS packet radio network.
[15:31] <NigeySWales> that should work quite nicely! when do you plan to be ready ?
[15:32] <jkominar> Well - we're basically ready to go now, short of actually buying our helium. Really, we're waiting on a suitable weather window on a weekend at this point.
[15:32] <NigeySWales> thats great news! have you made use of the prediction software on the spacenear.us site ?
[15:32] <jkominar> Constantly ;-)
[15:33] <jkominar> It's our go/no-go determination.
[15:33] <jkominar> Combined with a weather report ... we're just getting into rain/snow season now, so it's harder to find a day with clear skies and calm winds.
[15:33] <NigeySWales> nicey! will be following along when you launch!
[15:34] <NigeySWales> yeah you get some crazy weather this time of year dont you, when it snows in canada, it snows! :/
[15:34] <jkominar> The balloon will launch under my callsign: VE3LVN as far as radio tracking goes.
[15:35] <NigeySWales> you tracking with fldigi to ?
[15:35] <jkominar> I'm not sure that it can participate in the tracking on spacenear.us because of the APRS radio protocols ... so we can't use the modified version of fldigi :(
[15:35] <NigeySWales> oh dam :/
[15:36] <jkominar> Once we eventually launch, you'd be able to watch the progress pseudo-live via: http://aprs.fi/?call=VE3LVN
[15:36] <NigeySWales> that will do nicely!
[15:37] <jkominar> Yeah - it's a great Google Maps mashup that overlays all of the world's APRS traffic ... makes it super easy for non-technical types to follow our balloon after it launches
[15:37] <NigeySWales> what's the payload, or is this a test of hardware?
[15:38] <NigeySWales> crikey thats quite a busy map .. container ships and all sorts hehe
[15:38] <jkominar> yeah - I think it's standard practice for all the cargo ships of the world to report position via the APRS network as well
[15:39] <jkominar> Payload is simply the radio tracking gear and a Cannon SD630 camera for photos. The entire point of the mission was to try and take space pics.
[15:40] <NigeySWales> nice, should get some lovely pics, mines pretty much a photo mission, but first flight will be no cams, just a test of the computer
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[15:43] <NigeySWales> hi Kevin9
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[15:43] <jkominar> Why not include the cam right off? Lots of extra cost in helium and balloon to wait for the second run, no?
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[15:44] <NigeySWales> i was thinking about it, but wanted to keep the "number of things that can go wrong" to a minimum
[15:45] <jkominar> Fair enough.
[15:45] <NigeySWales> i did have a very cheap spycam type camera i use on the bike that i couldve used, but it died last week, shame cause it had its own sdcard etc :/
[15:52] <jkominar> What are you intending on using for photo/video on your subsequent flight then? There's been some beautiful HD video launches recently.
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[15:55] <NigeySWales> i was thinking of trying a couple of powershot a480's
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[15:57] <jkominar> Nice ... due to weight issues, we're just flying with the one camera. We're not as interested in birds-eye perspective shots anyhow ... this mission is more to get those "curvature of the earth" shots.
[15:59] <NigeySWales> :D you'll definately get a few of those!
[16:02] <jkominar> Yeah - I'm not so concerned about the camera functioning... more concerned about recovering it after landing :)
[16:03] <NigeySWales> haha yeah, dont go losing that payload now!
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[16:15] <Zuph> Cool! White Star Balloons got a pretty significant article in the local newspaper: http://bit.ly/bTzrcO
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-kernel-70/swap-thrashing-can-nothing-be-done-612945/
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> so someones finally said it
[16:22] <NigeySWales> Zuph, congrats dude!
[16:22] <Zuph> Thanks :)
[16:22] <Zuph> Hopefully this Saturday's party can get some more significant funding flowing.
[16:23] <NigeySWales> hope so, fingers crossed for you!
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[16:56] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[16:56] <W0OTM> howdy howdy
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[17:21] <kd0mto> massive win for the day
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[17:35] <NigeySWales> do b doo
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[18:13] Action: NigeySWales drops a pin
[18:16] Action: jkominar heard something
[18:17] <NigeySWales> that was definately an echo!
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[18:18] <NigeySWales> ello LazyLeopard
[18:23] <LazyLeopard> Hiya
[18:25] <NigeySWales> how's you ?
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[18:34] <NigeySWales> hi fsphil !
[18:35] Action: LazyLeopard is deeply buried in Intermediate revision...
[18:35] <fsphil> evening NigeySWales et all!
[18:35] <fsphil> ooh lucky you LazyLeopard
[18:35] <NigeySWales> that doesnt sound fun !
[18:35] <LazyLeopard> ...but heading out to BDARS's construction evening later
[18:36] <LazyLeopard> NigeySWales: Oh, it's lots of fun. ;)
[18:36] <NigeySWales> :p
[18:36] <LazyLeopard> ...but Advanced will be even more fun. :)
[18:37] <LazyLeopard> Morse code, on the other hand, is head-banging stuff...
[18:37] <fsphil> our local club doesn't seem all that bothered to run the course
[18:38] <LazyLeopard> I missed BDARS's course in the summer, but got an offer I couldn't refuse from Cambridge. :)
[18:39] <LazyLeopard> ...and today Horsham (HDARS) let me know that they were running a course soon. Cray Valley (CVRS) are running one in January.
[18:43] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering extreme HOB activity.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> replacing one ring of an induction cooker I'm fixing with a halogen element.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Also I've been looking at the large polythene rolls in the attic again.
[18:44] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Too many projects.
[18:45] <NigeySWales> you're quite enjoying playing with that cooker aren't you lol
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Well - I have a very broken existing one.
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> And it's an upgrade.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> The ceramic hob elements look _so_ useful.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> I just can't think for what.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> hot-air-balloon? :)
[18:46] <NigeySWales> hehe you'll find a use for them !
[18:46] <NigeySWales> lmao not quite what i was thinking but go for it :p
[18:46] <fsphil> drat, my ethernet switch has died
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Oooh. They would be dramatic overkill for a small PCB oven.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> But should work just fine.
[18:47] <NigeySWales> :o.. i was nowhere near it phil!
[18:47] <fsphil> hmm ;)
[18:47] <fsphil> it's the second one in four months
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Maybe lightening struck it. Is it near a window, or any white paint?
[18:48] <fsphil> nah. it's about a metre from the window
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Maybe you spilled some helium on it.
[18:48] <fsphil> in a nice comfie part of the room
[18:49] <fsphil> could be the psu too
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> My linksys WRT54G is going strong, with a large capacitor duct-taped to the case.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> (of the PSU)
[18:49] <fsphil> yea, got a few wrt54's around here
[18:50] <fsphil> nice gizmos
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> I just wish there was a nice open-source DSL stack.
[18:50] <fsphil> yea
[18:51] <fsphil> though I'm solving that by getting ftth
[18:51] <fsphil> all I need is something that supports pppoe
[18:57] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[18:57] Action: SpeedEvil lacks the f part of that.
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[19:26] <fsphil> hmm.. fttc even
[19:26] <fsphil> ftth would be nice
[19:36] <NigeySWales> its bloody cold out! :(
[19:36] <NigeySWales> hey Dave-M0MYA !
[19:37] <fsphil> and windy
[19:37] <fsphil> again
[19:37] <NigeySWales> hey phil :D not so windy down here, but god its gone cold :(
[19:37] <Dave-M0MYA> ello NigeySWales
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[19:38] <NigeySWales> ello rjharrison
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[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:16] <fsphil> hi hi
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> how was the australian ascent?
[20:17] <fsphil> seemed to go pretty well
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> that is nice
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> did they recover the paylod?
[20:18] <fsphil> yea
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[20:58] <rjharrison_> ping RocketBoy_
[20:58] <rjharrison_> hi NigeySWales
[20:58] <rjharrison_> sorry missed you earlier
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi robert
[20:58] <rjharrison_> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[21:00] <rjharrison_> Lunar_Lander bloody hecktic but I'm getting there
[21:00] <NigeySWales> hey rjharrison_ no worries :)
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeySWales
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah same here rjharrison_
[21:01] <NigeySWales> hey Lunar_Lander !
[21:01] <natrium42> o/
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi sodium :)
[21:02] <natrium42> moin moin
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> NigeySWales
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> best comedy in the chatroom for that other forum where I got a warning
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> some woman proposes computer-controlled cars to eliminate risks induced by drunk driving
[21:03] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: http://www.taz.de/uploads/hp_taz_img/xl/otto_01.jpg
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah best picture for the situation
[21:04] <natrium42> computer controlled cars will solve many problems
[21:04] <natrium42> reduce pollution, traffic jams, accidents
[21:04] <natrium42> plus you can actually get work done in the car
[21:05] <jkominar> hey Natrium - when Transport Canada contacted you, did they say anything specific about the 115 ft^3 of lifting gas at a specific altitude? Someone suggested on the channel earlier today that it's actually 115 ft^3 at ANY altitude, which really puts a damper on things here without getting flight permission
[21:06] <jkominar> However, we believe it's a measurement at sea-level kind of deal ... but perhaps this is that "open to interpretation" point you mentioned :)
[21:06] <natrium42> jkominar: they claimed that, yes
[21:07] <natrium42> however i still maintain that the law is not clear
[21:07] <jkominar> they claimed that it was at any altitude?
[21:07] <natrium42> kinda
[21:07] <natrium42> see, that's why i like the american rules better
[21:07] <natrium42> they use payload weight/density
[21:07] <natrium42> instead of gas volume
[21:07] <jkominar> oh I totally agree, however there's this sticky fact of us all being Canadian to deal with ;)
[21:08] <natrium42> i can forward my contact to you
[21:08] <jkominar> sure, that'd be great.
[21:08] <jkominar> justin@elven.ca
[21:08] <natrium42> there's some text that you need to write in english and french
[21:08] <natrium42> and then wait over 1 month
[21:09] <natrium42> the easiest of course is to launch from US
[21:09] <natrium42> buffalo is close
[21:09] <natrium42> could get helium there
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> Transport Canada is stupid like hell if they mean any altitude
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> cause they'd have to shut down their weather service
[21:10] <natrium42> srsly
[21:10] <jkominar> Well - their weather folks may have some kind of blanket approval pre-arranged with Transport Canada in that situation
[21:10] Action: natrium42 thinks you'd have a good case in court (if it ever came to that) that the law is ambiguous
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[21:12] <natrium42> jkominar: about to forward our discussion to your email
[21:13] <jkominar> Merci
[21:13] <natrium42> btw, if you could get a permit for multiple launches
[21:13] <natrium42> would be cool, i have something to launch :)
[21:13] <jkominar> I'm not sure we're going the route of seeking a permit at this point ... kinda depends on how this gas issue pans out.
[21:14] <jkominar> We've been intending through the entire scope of this project to stay within the "legal limits" that keep us from having to get too caught up in red tape.
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[21:15] <natrium42> yeah, i hate bureaucracy
[21:15] <Dave-M0MYA> natrium42: thats a nice line to rejoin the chan to =)
[21:15] <natrium42> i mean, if you kept the launch low visibility... :P
[21:15] <natrium42> hehe dave
[21:19] <jkominar> I don't mind the paperwork so much .. I'm happy to follow the proper channels ... but what kills me is the relative inflexibility of the scheduling of the launch when you have to go down that route. It's hard enough for us to find a suitable weather/wind window as it is without having another set of timing criteria in the way to try and work around.
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you also have to announce your launch 8 days in advance?
[21:20] <natrium42> more like 2 months
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:20] <fsphil> !!
[21:21] <natrium42> bureaucracy really kills innovation, which is really visible in canada
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:21] Action: Lunar_Lander thinks of Gerry Bull right now
[21:21] <natrium42> that's why US so innovative, no BS to deal with every time you want to do something
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> you know Bull, I assume?
[21:24] <natrium42> Bull Gates?
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> Gerald Bull
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> the guy with the space gun
[21:24] Action: jkominar would like to know where he could get his hands on one of those ...
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:36] <natrium42> jkominar: i also have a DOC of the notice in english and french somewhere
[21:36] <DagoRed> natrium42: There is plenty of BS in the US when it comes to innovation
[21:36] <natrium42> couldn't find it yet
[21:36] <natrium42> oh i am sure
[21:36] <natrium42> but it's less than in canada
[21:38] <DagoRed> That's not actually true either. Patent laws run rampant in the US. In Canada it isn't as bad.
[21:38] <DagoRed> The one thing that pisses me off about canada is how they handle custom cars.
[21:40] <natrium42> software patents suck :S
[21:41] <natrium42> you can't create a program without touching some patents
[21:41] <natrium42> that's why i'd just ignore them altogether
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[21:41] <natrium42> if your software takes off, you'd have resources for defense
[21:41] <Dave-M0MYA> natrium42: good man!
[21:42] <DagoRed> natrium42: Right there with you.
[21:42] <fsphil> +1
[21:42] <DagoRed> Also, NEVER look at the source code of the java virtual machine.
[21:42] <fsphil> which is probably patented :-(
[21:42] <fsphil> "A method of incrementing a numeric value by one..."
[21:43] <natrium42> lol
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[22:06] <fsphil> found my first linux disk, redhat 4.1. I wonder how long it would take to be rooted if I put it online
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[22:47] <juxta> Darkside, i fell asleep really early last night, but i fixed that bug in the offline predictor :)
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[23:10] <ACowan31> -
[23:12] <ACowan31> Is anyone else around at the moment?
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 17 2010