highaltitude.log.20101113

[00:00] <jonsowman> right, night all
[00:00] <jonsowman> jcoxon: hope the gps cooperates
[00:00] <jonsowman> will see you at 1245 at CUED
[00:00] <jcoxon> yup
[00:01] <Laurenceb> me too
[00:01] <jonsowman> you've got my number, give me a buzz when you're there
[00:01] <jonsowman> see you
[00:05] <stilldavid> Hi there Dan-K2VOL
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[00:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Thanks stilldavid for getting things in the mail today
[00:10] <stilldavid> oh, you're _that_ dan :) no problem!
[00:10] <stilldavid> thanks for organizing it all.
[00:10] <Dan-K2VOL> haha, and some info on the temp sensor
[00:10] <stilldavid> yeah, pardon my noobishnes about all this...
[00:11] <Dan-K2VOL> no prob, we all started once!
[00:11] <Dan-K2VOL> and constant-altitude balloons are quite advanced devils
[00:11] <stilldavid> so why have one at the top of the envelope?
[00:11] <Dan-K2VOL> but really they're easy once you know how to do em
[00:11] <stilldavid> yeah, I'm going to do one more latex launch to test an APRS beacon
[00:11] <Dan-K2VOL> Well, do you understand yet how the balloon levels off at altitude?
[00:11] <stilldavid> yes.
[00:12] <stilldavid> fill it part way, let it leak at altitude until it finds equilibrium
[00:12] <stilldavid> read about Bill overfilling one... will try not to make that mistake!
[00:12] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, so usually you'll have that equilibirum reached as the helium expands due to decreasing air pressure as you climb
[00:13] <Dan-K2VOL> and it will stabilize for a while at that equilibrium, roughly
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[00:13] <Dan-K2VOL> though the helium will always be seeping through your plastic, and your initial climb to float may induce a downward bounce
[00:14] <Dan-K2VOL> which needs to be corrected with just a little bit of ballast dropping
[00:14] <Dan-K2VOL> but once you've got active ballast running, minor tweaks will let you stay at altitude all day
[00:14] <stilldavid> okay. what if it goes uncorrected? wouldn't it just "bounce" back and for for a bit?
[00:15] <Dan-K2VOL> that's one thing we're trying to prove once and for all with this flight - our modeling suggests that it may in fact just continue down to the ground
[00:15] <stilldavid> is GPS an accurate enough altitude sensor to use for ballast drop determination?
[00:15] <Dan-K2VOL> and Mark Caviezel agrees
[00:15] <stilldavid> hm, well I'll wait and see :)
[00:15] <Dan-K2VOL> it'll do fine as long as you give it a wide threshold hysteresis - like 1000m
[00:16] <stilldavid> cool. so where does the temp sensor come in?
[00:16] <Dan-K2VOL> the main thing that brings down zero-pressure balloons is solar heating of the helium
[00:17] <stilldavid> which makes it expand and leak out the bottom?
[00:17] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, but it maintains altitude
[00:17] <jcoxon> hehe i manage to restart my gps exactly at midnight which made it very difficult to tell if it had acquired enough sats to work out time or not
[00:18] <zuph> Until the sun goes down, and your helium rapidly contracts.
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> then you lose lift
[00:18] <stilldavid> yeah, I'm shooting for a full day in the air, not sure if I can add enought ballast to make it last the night
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> and start to plummet
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> that's where you drop a big chunk of ballast
[00:18] <stilldavid> what's the average payload weight?
[00:18] <stilldavid> including ballast, excluding envelope
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> to regain that sunset lost lift
[00:18] <Dan-K2VOL> 12lb
[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> have to have as much of that as ballast as possible
[00:19] <stilldavid> okay. I'd guess... 80% of that is ballast?
[00:19] <stilldavid> cool. I can design a pretty small payload.
[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedBall-1 will be basically 45% ballast weight
[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> due to us starting out basically duplicating the Spirit of Knoxville IV flight design
[00:19] <stilldavid> also while you're here: what kind of receiver do you have on the payload to listen for cut-down?
[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> to give some baseline data
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[00:20] <zuph> We'll be using a Digi Sat Modem to talk with our balloon.
[00:20] <stilldavid> digi as in the manufacturer?
[00:20] <zuph> Yes
[00:20] <zuph> It's on the Orbcomm Constellation.
[00:20] <zuph> Digi M10 is the specific one we're looking at.
[00:20] <stilldavid> sounds like $$$
[00:21] <zuph> Modem itself is only $150!
[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> no one has a good flight model of these small balloons because you don't know how much the helium gets heated, so you can't tell how much leaked out, until you start falling
[00:21] <Darkside> how much for data?
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[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> which is why we want to measure the helium temperature in the balloon!
[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> that way you can predict how much ballast will be needed for the sunset drop
[00:21] <zuph> We have an NDA with Orbcomm for the data cost, but we're looking at on the order of $100 per mission for full telemetry data.
[00:21] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL, it's all coming together, but it sounds like quite a project to develop a control system that takes all this into account
[00:21] <Darkside> heh
[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> and predict how many days it can stay in the air much better
[00:21] <Darkside> zuph: at what rate?
[00:21] <Darkside> or is tht NDAd too :P
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[00:22] <stilldavid> I wonder what the range on a 2M ham receiver would be (was looking at the 300mW radiometrix one - biH2 or something) if it was blasted with 100W from the ground
[00:22] <zuph> Darkside: I don't want to give away enough info to give away the NDAed info, but we'll be switching between gathering data once every minute, and once every 15 minutes, based on flight conditions.
[00:22] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, stilldavid, our design, science data, algorithms, and code will all be open source
[00:23] <Darkside> ok zuph
[00:23] <stilldavid> thank goodness. not sure if I'd ever figure this all out otherwise
[00:23] <Dan-K2VOL> so we hope you can learn directly, or copy anything needed to bootstrap on up
[00:23] <zuph> stilldavid: It should warm your heart to know that we're spending a lot of money at Sparkfun for this project :-p
[00:23] <stilldavid> awe, thanks :)
[00:24] <zuph> Darkside: You can contact a few orbcomm resellers to get some on-the-order figures for cost.
[00:24] <Dan-K2VOL> stilldavid, the range wouldn't be any farther than for 1W
[00:24] <stilldavid> zuph, pretty sure everything I make is 100% SFE at this point
[00:24] <zuph> Darkside: Orbcomm cut us a bit of a deal for whatever reason, but it wasn't enough to make-or-break sat usage.
[00:24] <Dan-K2VOL> 1W will make it to the radio horizon
[00:24] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL, line of sight, pretty much?
[00:24] <stilldavid> so a few hundred miles, max?
[00:24] <Dan-K2VOL> stilldavid, yes, but radio line of sight -
[00:25] <Dan-K2VOL> http://www.qsl.net/w4sat/horizon.htm
[00:25] <stilldavid> 2M doesn't have much propagation beyond LoS, right?
[00:25] Action: stilldavid is a noob ham too
[00:25] <zuph> stilldavid: None to speak of
[00:25] <Dan-K2VOL> just poke your antenna heights in that calc webpage
[00:25] <russss> an NDA for the cost? lame.
[00:25] <stilldavid> hmm. so sat modem, then ;)
[00:25] <zuph> stilldavid: None to speak of beyond the radio horizon, I mean.
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[00:26] <zuph> russss: Yeah :(
[00:27] <stilldavid> I'm still reading up on APRS, but could we potentially use the national network to send messages _to_ the balloon too?
[00:27] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, you could
[00:27] <stilldavid> what kind of transceivers do you put on payloads?
[00:28] <Dan-K2VOL> well, I've never put 2m transceivers on a balloon due to cost, weight of the HT and the Packet TNC
[00:28] <Dan-K2VOL> used DTMF touch tones once, but wasn't very reliable
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Cornell's Project Blue Horizon uses an MFJ CW Decoder and a shortwave transceiver, the Rockmite
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[00:29] <stilldavid> on 20M?
[00:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, I can't recall the band they've used, SNOX always used 30m cause it was quiet, and had Day/Night coverage
[00:31] <stilldavid> http://www.radiometrix.com/content/bim1h
[00:31] <stilldavid> that's what I was thinking of.
[00:31] <stilldavid> not sure about building a receiving circuit/program though
[00:31] <Dan-K2VOL> that's cool, really though, XBees would work great
[00:32] <Dan-K2VOL> gtg David! great talking to ya.
[00:32] <stilldavid> thanks for the info and setting everything up!
[00:32] <stilldavid> ttyl
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[00:32] Action: stilldavid wonders if a ZP project is above his head (npi)
[00:33] <zuph> stilldavid: And if you haven't seen, we've got everything we've done (so far) on a wiki: http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/
[00:33] <stilldavid> have poked around a bit.
[00:34] <zuph> All our PCBs and software are in various states of disarray on github, as well: https://github.com/Zuph/LVL1-Transatlantic-Balloon
[00:34] <stilldavid> just joined the email list
[00:34] <stilldavid> (if that's cool...)
[00:34] <zuph> Absolutey!
[00:34] <zuph> *absolutely
[00:35] <zuph> Heh, some of our own members still haven't joined the mailing list.
[00:37] <stilldavid> so you're aiming for transatlantic, huh zuph ?
[00:38] <zuph> Yep!
[00:38] <stilldavid> a reliable bi-directional link would be amazing
[00:38] <russss> zuph: are you making your own balloon? Looks like a pretty sophisticated setup you're building
[00:38] <zuph> It's a huge endeavor. And we've got to have the hardware ready ASAP.
[00:38] <stilldavid> reading: http://whitestarballoon.com/?page_id=2
[00:38] <zuph> russss: Nope, Global Western is supplying our balloons.
[00:39] <zuph> Honestly, the reliable bi-directional link is what makes this whole endeavor possible to accomplish safely.
[00:39] <stilldavid> but I hadn't thought of it in terms of "well, the jet stream is lower than when we started, let's let out some ballast"
[00:39] <russss> ah cool
[00:39] <stilldavid> sending commands opens up a wold of possibilities
[00:39] <stilldavid> other than just "cut down" of course ;)
[00:40] <zuph> Yeah, absolutely.
[00:40] <zuph> If we had a bigger budget, we could go as far as to reflash modules in situ.
[00:40] <Laurenceb> anyone here used signals?
[00:41] <Laurenceb> in *nix - posix
[00:41] <jerry507_mac> A while ago :(
[00:41] <zuph> Well, the ZP balloons' float altitude is determined by external *pressure*, rather than altitude.
[00:41] <zuph> It's actually pretty tough to determine the fastest/"best" part of the jetstream to fly in.
[00:42] <zuph> Nevermind that there's no real telling how exacting Global Western will be in assembling our balloons :-p
[00:42] <stilldavid> I've seen very many different designs, I'm quite curious as well
[00:42] <stilldavid> that's why I was wary of having y'all make any mods to it before I see it.
[00:43] <stilldavid> because I have no idea what to expect
[00:43] <zuph> The pictures you see on our website of the old SNOX balloons is about as basic as it gets.
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[00:44] <jcoxon> zuph, how about this http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3290765478/in/set-72157614028027899/ :-D
[00:44] <stilldavid> zuph, ha, you have insurance :P
[00:44] <stilldavid> jcoxon, do want
[00:44] <zuph> jcoxon: Jerk
[00:45] <zuph> stilldavid: Insurance is still "up-in-the-air," so to speak.
[00:45] <zuph> stilldavid: If no one wants to give us affordable insurance, we'll probably just incorporate at White Star Balloons Inc, to limit our personal liability.
[00:45] <jcoxon> zuph, that was a while back - not an amateur expedition
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[00:46] <zuph> jcoxon: I can tell! Who manufactured the balloons?
[00:46] <jcoxon> CNES
[00:46] <zuph> Ah
[00:47] <zuph> Figured as much.
[00:47] <zuph> We found a company in the Northwest US that *wanted* to sell to us, but their insurance company wouldn't let them.
[00:47] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/3290746460/in/set-72157614028027899/
[00:47] <zuph> They were willing to design some superpressure balloons to our spec.
[00:47] <jcoxon> those were our helium supplies
[00:47] <jcoxon> had 2 trailers of tha
[00:47] <jcoxon> t
[00:48] <zuph> wow
[00:48] <jcoxon> this was a big project
[00:48] <zuph> About how many Cubic Feet (or M^3 or whatever the hell you guys measure stuff in over there)?
[00:48] <russss> sounds like £100k worth of helium from a quick estimate
[00:49] <russss> I guess maybe they get a bulk discount
[00:49] <jcoxon> well they shipped it over themselves
[00:49] <jcoxon> it was CNES and also Uni of Wyoming
[00:49] <jcoxon> it was an EU project to look at the West African Monsoon
[00:50] <russss> I'd be interesting to see what everyone does when the US helium reserve runs out and it shoots up in price
[00:50] <zuph> Hopefully hydrogen will be less stigmatized :-p
[00:50] <jcoxon> zuph, the biggest we used were 12000m3
[00:51] <zuph> We wanted to use hydrogen, but decided the PR ramifications would be too great. Last thing we need is the local news showing images of the hindenburg next to our balloon.
[00:51] <jcoxon> yeah
[00:52] <jerry507_mac> russss: It will be amusing and sad at the same time
[00:55] <russss> I would be interested to fill a balloon with hydrogen and see exactly how hard it is to make it explode.
[00:55] <russss> burn, I guess
[00:56] <stilldavid> doesn't seem like it would be that hard if my HS chem class was any indication :)
[00:56] <jerry507_mac> How often do you really just run into open flames though?
[00:57] <stilldavid> true.
[00:58] Action: jcoxon is running u-center, not even a sniff of a satellite
[01:02] <zuph> stilldavid: I just added some pictures of the pipe we'll be hanging the top temperature sensor in to our flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/groups/1578126@N22/
[01:02] <stilldavid> zuph, that rockmite is cool looking, might pick one up
[01:02] <stilldavid> but 12v? really?
[01:02] <zuph> stilldavid: Good luck finding much wireless/ham stuff that isn't 12v.
[01:02] <stilldavid> uh, ntx2? :P
[01:02] <zuph> heh
[01:02] <zuph> Our sat modems are 12v
[01:03] <stilldavid> just sucks to have to use.
[01:03] <zuph> Our first gen flight computers only had 5v and 3.3v rails, which turned out to be a big mistake when we started designing everything else.
[01:03] <stilldavid> yeah, that's what my launch had
[01:03] <zuph> Our ballast solenoid also uses 12v.
[01:04] <zuph> We may also include a 12v strobe.
[01:04] <zuph> Sat Modem sucks down 2A @ 12V while transmitting!
[01:04] <stilldavid> phew! so... how do you feel about solar?
[01:05] <stilldavid> http://sprkfn.com/7840
[01:05] <zuph> Too heavy. We'll be flying in the winter, in pretty northern latitudes, as well, so insolation will also suck.
[01:05] <stilldavid> might run down and see how much those weigh
[01:06] <zuph> stilldavid: Jerk :-p
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[01:06] <stilldavid> but it's all the way _downstairs_
[01:06] <stilldavid> might run by the keg on the way, though :P
[01:06] <zuph> With your sparkfun-ian workshop and resources and probably discount.
[01:07] <zuph> Well, we've got a keg too
[01:07] <zuph> Well, we've got a keg too;-p
[01:07] <natrium42> o/
[01:07] <zuph> eek
[01:07] <stilldavid> I told Nate (our fearless leader) about doing a ZP project... he basically said "have fun with it, good luck"
[01:07] <stilldavid> don't think he's too into it anymore
[01:07] <zuph> Heh, disheartened after losing his first payload?
[01:07] <stilldavid> I think so. I think we might do a dual launch next month
[01:08] <stilldavid> I've got another balloon and payload to launch
[01:08] <stilldavid> before the ZP one, of course
[01:08] <zuph> Cool!
[01:08] <zuph> Our project after this flight season is to design and develop our own small Zero-pressure balloons, and open source all that info.
[01:09] <zuph> That way, amateurs don't have to search the depths of the world to find these things.
[01:09] <zuph> Provided budget and spirits remain high.
[01:13] <stilldavid> soooo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48225359@N03/5166017698/in/pool-1578126@N22/
[01:13] <stilldavid> what's the little black box?
[01:15] <zuph> That is the best ballast solenoid we've been able to find.
[01:15] <stilldavid> I might have to hit the hardware store
[01:16] <zuph> 12v, 3/4 watt, tested to work at -40C
[01:16] <zuph> Only downside is a .6mm opening.
[01:17] <stilldavid> 12v? you don't say...
[01:17] <zuph> And only $13
[01:17] <zuph> Every other appropriate part we've been able to find is at least 4x as expensive.
[01:18] <stilldavid> well, can't argue that I guess.
[01:19] <zuph> That said, we have a finite capacity for part searching; if you come across anything better, we'd *love* to hear about it :)
[01:19] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/1294197
[01:19] <Laurenceb> anyone here used signal() ?
[01:19] <stilldavid> I sure will. I should set up a page on the wiki
[01:19] <zuph> Link for that solenoid valve: http://www.pneuaire.com/lowwasu34wav.html
[01:20] <Laurenceb> my sigpipe stuff isnt being called :/
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[01:28] <SpeedEvil> zuph: rewind it is easy
[01:29] <zuph> SpeedEvil: ?
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> double the wire thickness, quarter the operating voltage
[01:30] <zuph> Maybe the beer is getting to me more than I though. I'm confused.
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[01:34] <stilldavid> zuph, srobe light?
[01:35] <stilldavid> is that an exempt requirement in FAR101?
[01:35] <zuph> Nope
[01:35] <stilldavid> just a Good Idea?
[01:35] <zuph> We think it is
[01:35] <jcoxon> now i'm starting to worry
[01:35] <zuph> But it'll be first on the chopping block if we can't support it.
[01:35] <stilldavid> and you're launching at night?
[01:36] <zuph> As close to sunset as possible.
[01:36] <jcoxon> have 2 gps modules running - neither can get a single sat it seems
[01:36] <stilldavid> that makes sense.
[01:36] <zuph> jcoxon: US military shutting it down? :tinfoilhat:
[01:36] <stilldavid> use as little ballast the first night, float all day, use more ballast night 2
[01:36] <zuph> stilldavid: exactly
[01:36] <stilldavid> zuph, so where should I launch from?
[01:37] <stilldavid> wasn't planning on transatlantic, more transamerica :)
[01:38] <zuph> stilldavid: We use a tool called HYSPLIT to calculate trajectories.
[01:38] <natrium42> jcoxon, just launch it in russia
[01:38] <natrium42> in soviet russia, payload finds you~
[01:38] <zuph> Although you might be close enough to the mountains that it'll be tough to inject into solid winds.
[01:39] <stilldavid> I'm on CO, but I've got familyin CA I don't mind freeloading with.
[01:39] <zuph> The Rockies can play havok with the jetstream.
[01:39] <zuph> *havoc
[01:39] <stilldavid> I can drive east if need be too.
[01:39] <zuph> So, if you launch from CA, your opportunities might be a lot more sparce.
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[01:40] <zuph> HYSPLIT will give a forecast for a given particle of air at a given pressure altitude for a given period of time.
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[01:40] <stilldavid> you use the web-based version?
[01:40] <zuph> So, it won't give you a good trajectory for your ascent or descent, but it will give you a good idea for your float.
[01:40] <jcoxon> finally!
[01:41] <jcoxon> 1 sat
[01:41] <zuph> Nope, we convinced them to give us full access.
[01:41] <zuph> We had to make up official looking letterhead and everything :)
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[01:41] <stilldavid> isobaric?
[01:41] <jcoxon> zuph, yeah we've lost access as well
[01:41] <stilldavid> hah! well if you uh, care to share as I get closer to wanting to launch this thing... ;)
[01:41] <jcoxon> and i have the OSX version installed but they've changed how to access the data so that doesn't ork any longer
[01:41] <zuph> You'll probably have no problem getting access with sparkfun credentials.
[01:41] <stilldavid> are we that famous?
[01:42] <zuph> No, I just assume you have letterhead
[01:42] <stilldavid> I mean, we have some wicked letterhead...
[01:42] <zuph> That's about all it took: Letterhead, and a landline phone number.
[01:42] <zuph> Which are difficult things to assemble for a hackerspace.
[01:42] <stilldavid> no doubt.
[01:42] <zuph> stilldavid: Yep, Isobaric. The balloons Global Western is designing for us should float at 250mb.
[01:43] <stilldavid> so ~35k feet?
[01:43] <zuph> Tyler, sitting next to me, it working on an automated HYSPLIT forecast that will alert the team whenever a transatlantic window appears.
[01:43] <zuph> Yep.
[01:43] <zuph> *is
[01:43] <stilldavid> well don't y'all know a good friday night!
[01:44] <jcoxon> natrium42, any chance you could change the custom string bit on spacenear.us
[01:44] <jcoxon> for my launch
[01:44] <zuph> He's also working on combining HYSPLIT with some of the Latex Balloon tracking tools, to forecast ascent and descent positions/trajectories.
[01:44] <stilldavid> so is HYSPLIT the data or the software?
[01:45] <zuph> HYSPLIT is the whole software package, but it uses data which is (as far as I know) unavailable through any other means of access.
[01:45] <zuph> And, again, all this will be open source and available as soon as possible.
[01:49] <stilldavid> just found out I'm going to be in London Dec. 1-4th
[01:50] <russss> you should drop by http://london.hackspace.org.uk/ :)
[01:55] <stilldavid> 24 hours, huh?
[01:55] <stilldavid> I'm meeting a friend of mine who's going to be at a conference all day
[01:56] <stilldavid> so I should be free during the days.. just sayin ;)
[01:56] <russss> well, there's not always someone there 24 hours :P
[01:56] <jcoxon> grrrr
[01:56] <jcoxon> still only 1 sat
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[02:00] <SpeedEvil> Got a 'proper' GPS
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> ?
[02:00] <jcoxon> not really
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[02:19] <juxta> ping Darkside
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[02:21] <SpeedEvil> GPS gets a fix here.
[02:21] <SpeedEvil> Which is probably not very useful info. :)
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[03:05] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[03:09] <Laurenceb> afc working XD
[03:39] <natrium42> d'oh, missed jcoxon
[03:48] <natrium42> laurenceb, you're a night owl?
[03:50] <Laurenceb> heh
[03:50] <natrium42> :)
[03:50] <Laurenceb> getting stuff ready
[03:50] <Laurenceb> hope jcoxon can launch
[03:50] <natrium42> oh
[03:51] <natrium42> are you hitchhiking your payload with his?
[04:13] <Laurenceb> nope, just testing my radio
[04:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.stallman.org/no-facebook.png
[04:13] Action: Laurenceb likes
[04:16] <Laurenceb> i dont believe it - theres a 911 inside job link on stallman.org
[04:16] <natrium42> haha
[04:16] <natrium42> stallman is pretty crazy
[04:17] Action: Laurenceb is reading stallman.org for lulz
[04:18] <natrium42> laurenceb http://i.imgur.com/XZZOM.jpg
[04:18] <Laurenceb> lol
[04:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg
[04:53] <natrium42> laurenceb, that halo is actually an old hard drive platter
[04:54] <natrium42> he wore it when he came to give a talk at my university
[05:09] <Darkside> looooool
[05:09] <Darkside> he was in adelaide recently
[05:10] <Darkside> didn't get the chance to troll him
[05:10] <Darkside> wanted to go to his talk with my macbook, and claim that i run linux
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[05:32] <plantain> http://geekz.co.uk/shop/images/che-stallman-tshirt-show.jpg
[05:32] <plantain> I have that on a tshirt
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[05:36] <Darkside> plantain:
[05:36] <Darkside> hey juxta
[05:40] <Darkside> hmm
[05:40] <Darkside> plantain: lol nobody on the gliding register
[05:40] <Darkside> i guess its a shit weekend
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[05:45] <plantain> huh Darkside ?
[05:45] <plantain> I see lots out there today
[05:45] <Darkside> lol
[05:45] <Darkside> aefs
[05:46] <Darkside> isnt it crap weather?
[05:46] <plantain> good enough weather for you and hattiel
[05:46] <Darkside> heh
[05:46] <plantain> hattiel wouldn't go without you though
[05:46] <Darkside> ill be out again after exams
[05:46] <Darkside> i cant afford to fuck up these last 2 exams
[05:48] <Darkside> aaaanyway... juxta about?
[05:49] <juxta> yes, sort of
[05:49] <Darkside> hehe
[05:49] <juxta> my phone line died this morning at 7am
[05:49] <Darkside> you pinged me this morning?
[05:49] <juxta> have been trying to get everything running through 3G
[05:49] <juxta> very annoying
[05:50] <juxta> oh, i suspect I was just going to complain about said phone line :)
[05:50] <Darkside> haha
[05:50] <Darkside> im on break at work
[05:50] <Darkside> got another 13 min left :P
[05:54] <juxta> i want to shoot telstra
[05:54] <juxta> give me my landline back damnit
[05:54] <Darkside> hahaha
[05:56] <Darkside> what prep still has to be done for the launch?
[05:56] <juxta> pretty much ready to go
[05:56] <Darkside> cool
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[06:37] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Tonight: worked on ground support computer, HYSPLIT auto flight predictor, PCB layout for Comm controller. #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/3335655954325504]
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[07:03] <natrium42> oh, cool --> http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/0042200/Paper-Airplane-Touches-Edge-of-Space-Glides-Back
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[07:05] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[07:05] <natrium42> you said you had custom data that you wanted me to add?
[07:05] <jcoxon> oh yes
[07:05] <natrium42> btw http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/0042200/Paper-Airplane-Touches-Edge-of-Space-Glides-Back
[07:06] <jcoxon> eek
[07:06] <jcoxon> so yes the custom data is:
[07:07] Action: natrium42 is on the edge of his seat
[07:08] <jcoxon> crystal temp, pid controller, int temp, ext temp, light sensor
[07:08] <jcoxon> e.g. 23;0;20;17;16
[07:08] <natrium42> what's pid controller?
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[07:09] <jcoxon> oh i've got a heater under the radio crystal
[07:09] <jcoxon> to stabilise its temp. and therefore freq
[07:09] <jcoxon> that the PID controllers output
[07:09] <jcoxon> just to see if it works
[07:10] <natrium42> are the temperatures in degrees celsius?
[07:11] <jcoxon> yes
[07:12] <natrium42> does it look good?
[07:13] <jcoxon> perfect
[07:13] <natrium42> great
[07:14] <natrium42> bed time for me, g'nite!
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[07:14] <jcoxon> night
[07:24] <GW8RAK> Morning all. Has anyone come across the myPocketQub project?
[07:24] <GW8RAK> If Cubesats at 100mm cube are too big for you, these are designed to be 50mm cube.
[07:25] <GW8RAK> Open source and home built.
[07:25] <GW8RAK> But part of their thinking is that they could be launched on a weather balloon as a test bed.
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[07:46] <m1x10> Good morning!
[07:49] <GW8RAK> Morning
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[07:55] <NigeySWales> meh morning all
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[07:58] <m1x10> lithiums AAA output 1.8V !
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[09:28] <futurity> Morning
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[09:47] <fsphil> morning all
[09:47] <m1x10> Hi
[09:52] <fsphil> should be an interesting flight today :)
[09:53] <GW8RAK> Morning. I see we have a dutch listener today.
[09:53] <fsphil> dutch mill?
[09:53] <GW8RAK> Yes, the name doesn't appear on the left.
[09:53] <fsphil> I think tim's going to be listening too
[09:53] <GW8RAK> They should be in a good position for it.
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[09:54] <fsphil> there's a good chance my little distance record will be broken today :D
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[09:55] <GW8RAK> Unfortunately I won't have the preamp finished today.
[09:55] <GW8RAK> Looks like the washing machine is playing up, so a somewhat more important job.
[09:56] <Dave-M0MYA> pffft! you got a sink - let the radio take precidence =)
[09:56] <fsphil> yea lol
[09:56] <fsphil> your building a preamp?
[09:56] <GW8RAK> Smart arse! I'll be in trouble if I don't get it going.
[09:57] <Dave-M0MYA> ahhh, the wrath of the XYL :)
[09:57] <GW8RAK> But before I do the washing machine, there's just time to get the yagi up.
[09:57] <fsphil> todays launch is on southgate arc news
[09:57] <Dave-M0MYA> or should that be "Audio QRM from the XYL" ;)
[09:58] <Dave-M0MYA> ah excellent - I was wondering why these launches don't get more coverage in the ham world
[09:58] <GW8RAK> fsphil, yes, I bought one a couple of years ago as a kit, but the loss of satellite aerials has meant it has been on the backburner.
[09:58] <fsphil> ah cool
[09:58] <fsphil> do they actually help? I've always been told that a preamp won't help unless the cable is very lossy or long
[09:59] <GW8RAK> As a wideband amp, it's not perfect, but it does cover 70 and 23cm.
[09:59] <GW8RAK> Preamps make a big difference even if in the shack.
[09:59] <GW8RAK> This one will be mast head mounted for best performance.
[09:59] <fsphil> interesting
[09:59] <fsphil> won't they amplify the noise as much as the signal?
[10:00] <GW8RAK> They do make a big difference at the masthead. Signals always decrease as they come down the cable, but the noise only goes up.
[10:00] <fsphil> true ture
[10:00] <fsphil> er, true
[10:01] <GW8RAK> Yes, they do ampfliy the noise, but if mounted at the mast, the amount of noise is very slight. Most of the noise and signal degradation comes in the cable
[10:01] <fsphil> yea I've got far too much cable on mine
[10:01] <Dave-M0MYA> fsphil: in order for a preamp to be any use it has to have a better noise figure than the radio you are feeding it with
[10:01] <GW8RAK> Normal RF noise cannot be removed, but hopefully the signal is above this, i.e., they can't amplify a signal which isn't there.
[10:01] <fsphil> ah right, hadn't considered that
[10:02] <Darkside> hmm
[10:02] <GW8RAK> For 70cm, I use Westflex 103 cable which is considerably better than RG213.
[10:02] <Dave-M0MYA> we use a 2m pre-amp in the shack here that was built from a kit from Spectrum communications - under marginal conditions it can be a real boon - its noise figure is better than the FT-857
[10:02] <GW8RAK> It's one thing to know the performance is better, but even more impressive to see it demonstrated.
[10:02] <Dave-M0MYA> indeedy
[10:03] <fsphil> I got a nice demonstration of a yagi over a vertical in the recent 2m contest
[10:03] <fsphil> guy about 50km from me couldn't hear me at all on the vertical
[10:03] <GW8RAK> Most preamps do have low noise figures as it is here that the biggest effect is noticed. Even with a noisy radio, a low noise preamp will improve things considerably.
[10:04] <GW8RAK> Sorry, didn't explain that clearly. If you have a chain of "noise injectors", the first one has a bigger difference than the second one which has a bigger difference than the third etc.
[10:05] <Darkside> hahaha
[10:05] <Darkside> i remember this
[10:05] <fsphil> make sense
[10:06] <fsphil> can a preamp have too much gain?
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[10:07] <Darkside> F = F_1 + (F_2 - 1)/G_1
[10:07] <Darkside> i.e. thats the noise figure of two chained amplifiers
[10:07] <Darkside> you can see that the first amplifier is the most importnat
[10:08] <Darkside> so basically the first stage of a RX circuit needs to have the lowest noise figure
[10:08] <GW8RAK> Too much gain? I think that as long as intermodulation performance isn't compromised, then no, but in practice, other factors besides gain become overwhelming.
[10:08] <GW8RAK> As gain goes up, I think you need increasing filtering.
[10:08] <GW8RAK> That's it Darkside
[10:09] <GW8RAK> I remember seeing that somewhere.
[10:09] <shenki> Darkside: RF III \o/
[10:09] <Darkside> :D
[10:09] <Dave-M0MYA> The RSGB VHF Handbook =)
[10:09] <Darkside> haha
[10:09] <Darkside> i got it out of my RFIII testbook
[10:09] <Darkside> textbook*
[10:09] <fsphil> right, breakfast time :D
[10:10] <GW8RAK> I don't think I'm up to soldering more surface mount devices this morning. Need steadier hands
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[10:12] <GW8RAK> Propagation today doesn't look very impressive today unfortunately.
[10:13] <GW8RAK> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_nwe.html
[10:15] <jonsowman> quite a nice here in Cambridge :)
[10:15] <jonsowman> s/nice/nice day/
[10:15] <Darkside> juxta: about?
[10:15] <jonsowman> good launching weather if it stays like this
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[10:26] <GW8RAK> Washing machine disaster averted. Back to radio.
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[10:27] <fsphil> haha
[10:28] <fsphil> not a cloud or breeze here at all
[10:29] <GW8RAK> And my luck holds. Checking out a couple of radios for somebody and 3 are working and I know why they 4th isn't.
[10:29] <fsphil> sweet
[10:30] <GW8RAK> Unfortunately low band AM, so not very useful. The 4th set is AM/FM VHF which I want to get going.
[10:30] <GW8RAK> But there is very little information about them.
[10:30] <fsphil> I've yet to hear any AM on the amateur bands
[10:30] <fsphil> is it still used?
[10:31] <GW8RAK> On VHF, there's a bit on 4m around 70.260, but mostly it is HF on 3615KHz on Saturday mornings.
[10:31] <GW8RAK> Still there now.
[10:31] <fsphil> oooh...
[10:31] <fsphil> lemme see
[10:32] <GW8RAK> It does sound good when conditions are good, but you need reasonable power and aerial
[10:32] <GW8RAK> That is the VMARS group and you can get a contact most times of daylight.
[10:32] <fsphil> yea, just hearing static
[10:33] <GW8RAK> Little noise here, but S8 of signal here. Sounds very good
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[10:35] <fsphil> there's an inverter in my shed, probably causing all this noise
[10:35] <fsphil> I've got a silly wire antenna in the attic, will try that
[10:36] <Darkside> hmm i need to fix my wire antenna
[10:37] <Darkside> needs to be properly insulated from ground
[10:37] <fsphil> just static from my attic :)
[10:38] <GW8RAK> You are a poet!
[10:38] <Darkside> this static is erratic?
[10:38] <GW8RAK> Does anyone know the lat and long of the launch site please?
[10:38] <fsphil> haha
[10:39] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: 52.2135, 0.0964
[10:39] <GW8RAK> Thank you. Just calculating distance and bearing for the yagi
[10:40] <jonsowman> :D
[10:40] <jonsowman> we're going to have the Trakatron running today I think
[10:40] <fsphil> nice -- I just wiggle it around until I hear something
[10:40] <jonsowman> hehe
[10:40] <jonsowman> that works too
[10:40] <GW8RAK> 241km and 119 degrees.
[10:41] <GW8RAK> Should stay constant if the path remains as predicted.
[10:41] <jonsowman> from where you are, yes in theory :)
[10:41] <GW8RAK> The bearing that is, hopefully the range will change greatly.
[10:41] <jonsowman> ground weather is spot on, just hope it stays like this
[10:41] <jonsowman> haha yes
[10:42] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:43] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - ATLAS Long Duration Floater launch 1500GMT on 13/11/10 from Churchill College, Cambridge
[10:43] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:44] <jonsowman> so, I've written the basics of an Arduino RTTY library
[10:45] <Darkside> so have i :P
[10:45] <Darkside> want some code?
[10:45] <jonsowman> hehe, was just looking for input as to whether people think the transmit() function should automagically append a checksum and \r\n ?
[10:45] <Darkside> ohhh
[10:45] <Darkside> yeah, probably a good idea
[10:45] <jonsowman> or have transmit() and crctransmit() ?
[10:46] <Darkside> i didnt do that
[10:46] <Darkside> i made the RTTY library only take a string and transmit it
[10:46] <Darkside> all the CRC stuff was done elsewhere
[10:46] <jonsowman> didn't realise someone else had started work on one hehe
[10:46] <Darkside> everyone here has done it :P
[10:46] <Darkside> everyone that's run a balloon has anyway
[10:46] <jonsowman> oh?
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[10:46] <Darkside> also whart do you mean by RTTY
[10:47] <jonsowman> I haven't seen any other actual libraries, just code
[10:47] <Darkside> do you mean generating teh audio too?
[10:47] <Darkside> oh :)
[10:47] <Darkside> hold on
[10:47] <jonsowman> no, a slow serial bitstream
[10:47] <jonsowman> potential divider type RTTY
[10:47] <Darkside> yeah
[10:47] <jonsowman> due to a long discussion that ended in the PWM-method being less preferable for a library
[10:47] <Darkside> in my case i'm using a signal generator
[10:47] <jonsowman> as it screws up Timer0 and therefore millis(), micros() and delay()
[10:47] <Darkside> which in effect is controlled by a single line
[10:48] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/xmega-qrp/source/browse/#svn/trunk/XMega_Code/include
[10:48] <Darkside> have a look at MOD_RTTY
[10:48] <Darkside> that code is designed to work with my signal generator though
[10:48] <jonsowman> oh nice :)
[10:48] <Darkside> also not many comments :P
[10:49] <Darkside> i have that for the arduino too, but i haven't used it in a long time
[10:49] <jonsowman> good stuff
[10:49] <jonsowman> this one is really written for Ferret
[10:50] <jonsowman> as we're making a new not-hacky version for people to use as a reference design
[10:50] <Darkside> but you can see that the code is pretty simple
[10:50] <jonsowman> as that's what Ferret seems to have become
[10:50] <Darkside> start bit, send a byte, stop bit
[10:50] <jonsowman> yup
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[10:50] <Darkside> theoretically you could just set up a UART in that way, and lower the baud rate to it
[10:50] <jonsowman> https://github.com/jonsowman/ferret/tree/master/librtty/
[10:50] <jonsowman> simple as
[10:51] <fsphil> my interrupt driven continuous rtty: https://github.com/fsphil/hadie/blob/master/rtty.c
[10:51] <jonsowman> just makes life a bit easier for people new to this, which is the idea
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[10:51] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah i need to switch mine to interrupt driven code..
[10:51] <Darkside> i need to make *all* my modulation libraries interrupt driven
[10:51] <fsphil> it's neat but also weird
[10:51] <fsphil> a few times I've overwritten the buffer that's still sending
[10:51] <Darkside> yeah i was worried about that
[10:52] <Darkside> i was going to make it interrupt driven, but have a blocking method too
[10:52] <fsphil> so I worked my code to alternate between two buffers -- send one, prepare another
[10:52] <fsphil> double buffer
[10:52] <Darkside> cool
[10:52] <fsphil> yea I've also added a wait() function that waits for the current string to end
[10:52] <Darkside> :P
[10:52] <Darkside> for thigns like DominoEX, it would be good to have it interrupt drive
[10:53] <Darkside> since then you can have somethign on the secondary channel
[10:53] <fsphil> and it can transmit from progmem too, which is handy for certain error messages
[10:53] <Darkside> cool
[10:53] <Darkside> and when you have a small RAM :P
[10:53] <fsphil> ah right, it has that weird secondary thing
[10:53] <Darkside> yeah
[10:53] <Darkside> also fldigi screws up if you mess up the timing
[10:54] <fsphil> that's true with a lot of fldigi's modems
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[10:54] <Darkside> hehe
[10:54] <Darkside> i made my dominoEX code add some $$'s to the start of the string
[10:54] <Darkside> so fldigi could try and sync
[10:54] <fsphil> I don't know much about dominoex -- is it possible to send 8-bit data through it?
[10:54] <Darkside> only if you base64 it i think
[10:55] <Darkside> it has 127 characters in its varicode, so you can do base64 through it
[10:55] <fsphil> right
[10:55] <fsphil> so each character isn't a fixed number of bits
[10:55] <Darkside> yep
[10:56] <Darkside> thats the whole idea of MFSK modes in general
[10:56] <Darkside> helps with FEC too
[10:56] <Darkside> though dominoEX doesn't really have FEC at all
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[11:11] Action: NigeySWales yawns .. morning
[11:11] <jonsowman> morning :)
[11:12] <NigeySWales> hi jon
[11:12] <NigeySWales> wonder if james has gps working now
[11:13] <Darkside> i wonder where juxta is..
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[11:14] <Darkside> juxta: ping
[11:17] <rjharrison_> Any news from james
[11:17] <rjharrison_> Do wwe know when he is due to launch
[11:17] <jonsowman> rjharrison_: not heard anything
[11:17] <jonsowman> 1500GMT is the aim
[11:17] <rjharrison_> jonsowman, ok cool
[11:17] m1x10 (m1x10@79.167.235.198) joined #highaltitude.
[11:18] <rjharrison_> I'll clear the tracker down
[11:18] <jonsowman> someone will keep this channel updated
[11:18] <NigeySWales> is the twitter bot working ok now jon ?
[11:18] <jonsowman> I don't trust it
[11:18] <NigeySWales> lol oki
[11:18] <jonsowman> and so will probably use my phone to just be in the channel and keep you all updated
[11:19] <NigeySWales> brill :D
[11:19] <Randomskk> shall I run my twitter bot?
[11:19] <jonsowman> you'll have to put up with a bit of join/quit spam, apologies in advance for that
[11:19] <Randomskk> it follows a particular user
[11:19] <jonsowman> Randomskk: please do
[11:19] <jonsowman> have it follow cuspaceflight I guess
[11:19] <Randomskk> can you update cuspaceflight from your phone?
[11:19] <jonsowman> yes
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[11:20] <Randomskk> https://github.com/randomskk/iot this was the best thing evere
[11:20] <jonsowman> maybe set it up on yours too - I assume your twitter client can handle multiple accounts
[11:20] <Randomskk> you assume a lot
[11:20] <Randomskk> I hacked this together in the thirty minutes after someone casually said "irc over twitter" as a stupid example of a tunneling protocol
[11:21] <jonsowman> what twitter client do you use on your phone?
[11:21] <Randomskk> twitter
[11:22] IoTbot (~IoTbot@paladin.randomskk.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:22] <Randomskk> uh I should rename it maybe
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[11:22] <jonsowman> hehe yes
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[11:24] <NigeySWales> jonsowman, have a giggle, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=50022c9a9475b894cfac4bc373bec3dc0173a505
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[11:24] <NigeySWales> look at the landing site
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[11:24] <jonsowman> oh good lord
[11:25] <jonsowman> I suggest not launching today
[11:25] <jonsowman> :O
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[11:25] <NigeySWales> nope lol
[11:25] <Randomskk> what really? it'd be lovely, land just by us :P
[11:25] <GW8RAK> You'd have someone on hand to recover it for you
[11:25] <jonsowman> Apex II overflew Mildenhall
[11:25] <NigeySWales> just seeing what it'd be like launching from south wales
[11:25] <jonsowman> but at about 30km
[11:25] <NigeySWales> :o
[11:25] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: you're in a good position actually
[11:26] <jonsowman> lots of England for it to land in
[11:26] <GW8RAK> The widest bit
[11:26] cusf-twitter (~cusf-twit@paladin.randomskk.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:26] <jonsowman> wait until it's a bit further south and west, and we'll pick it up and post it back to you :P
[11:26] <NigeySWales> yup, quite lucky there
[11:26] <NigeySWales> haha cheers!
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[11:26] <NigeySWales> tracking would be good to
[11:26] <jonsowman> crazy jetstream at the moment
[11:26] <jonsowman> nearly 300km in 2.5hours
[11:26] <Randomskk> uhm what, utf8 errors, sigh
[11:27] <NigeySWales> was looking at jetstream earlier, i think its on steroids!
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[11:27] <jonsowman> apex ii landed in Thetford
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[11:27] <jonsowman> and that was only launched from Cam
[11:28] <jonsowman> you're almost in Thetford from S. Wales :o
[11:28] <NigeySWales> crazyness!
[11:28] <NigeySWales> love the way it bursts right over milton keynes
[11:28] <jonsowman> ha
[11:28] <NigeySWales> my open uni tutor would be so chuffed lol
[11:30] <NigeySWales> btw whats the latest prediction for james? i tried it but it was a sea landing, think i used wrong ascent / descent values
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[11:31] <Randomskk> let's see if it crashes again
[11:31] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: cuspaceflight: z @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon still on for tomorrow, setup 1300, Launch now at 15:00 aiming for 18km float
[11:31] <Randomskk> aha!
[11:31] <Randomskk> take that, fucking ascii
[11:31] <NigeySWales> yey!
[11:31] <NigeySWales> lmao
[11:31] <Randomskk> stupid z character
[11:31] <Randomskk> jonsowman: do you wanna test it?
[11:31] <jonsowman> recyling
[11:31] <jonsowman> yes
[11:32] <jonsowman> shall i #cusf it
[11:32] <jonsowman> see if both bots work
[11:32] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:32] <Randomskk> haha okay
[11:32] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: twitter bot test #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3409817062346752]
[11:32] <jonsowman> typical
[11:32] <Randomskk> griffonbot wins! :/
[11:32] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: cuspaceflight: twitter bot test #cusf
[11:32] <Randomskk> apparently it says the cuspaceflight bit twice
[11:32] <Randomskk> how silly
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[11:33] <Randomskk> take two
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[11:33] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: z @jamescoxon: Running late; on my way to Cambridge
[11:33] <Randomskk> score
[11:33] <jonsowman> nice one
[11:34] <Randomskk> I can't really remember how it works or anthing but that should be fine
[11:34] <jonsowman> :)
[11:34] <jonsowman> ta
[11:34] <Randomskk> apparently oauth isn't an issue
[11:36] <NigeySWales> should have a radio of some sort by next week :D
[11:36] <Randomskk> in that like, it is working
[11:36] <Randomskk> next, shower time
[11:36] <jonsowman> yup
[11:36] <Randomskk> then breakfast
[11:36] <Randomskk> way to go waking up at 11 >_>
[11:36] <jonsowman> lol
[11:36] <Randomskk> sigh, bbl
[11:36] <NigeySWales> bacon, egg, sausag.. ? :p
[11:36] <Randomskk> that's tomorrow's brunch
[11:36] <Randomskk> today is going to be more like a yoghurt
[11:36] <jonsowman> :D
[11:36] <NigeySWales> lol
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> A bacon yoghurt?
[11:39] <NigeySWales> eww!
[11:39] <Darkside> oh man now i know where juxta is
[11:39] <Darkside> he's at the internode christmas party
[11:39] <Darkside> lol
[11:46] <NigeySWales> hm if the balloon is heading east, would i even pick it up from cardiff with a 10ele yagi ?
[11:46] <Darkside> depends how high up it gets
[11:46] <NigeySWales> ahh
[11:52] <Dave-M0MYA> well I hope so, NigeySWales, cos I've got 13 elements here (the extra 3 don't make that much of a difference) and we're at similar longitudes
[11:53] <Dave-M0MYA> mind, the CW beacon in the week did not make things look promissing
[11:53] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:53] <Dave-M0MYA> however, if fsphil can manage it on a vertical, I reckon there's hope
[11:53] <NigeySWales> oh yeah forgot you were on similar longitude
[11:54] <NigeySWales> fingers crossed, next launch ill be dangling it out the window lol
[11:54] <Dave-M0MYA> thats the way =)
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[11:55] <NigeySWales> might tie it to the cat and throw him on the roof....:p
[11:55] <Dave-M0MYA> its a scientific truth that antennas work better when dangled out of windows, especially if there is something like driving sleep coming down at the time ;-)
[11:55] <NigeySWales> lol
[11:55] <Randomskk> Dave-M0MYA: the CW beacon may have only been 1mW I'm told
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[11:55] <Dave-M0MYA> maybe you could train your cat to respond to PWM and use him as a rotator?
[11:55] <Dave-M0MYA> Randomskk, that's what I like to hear :)
[11:56] <NigeySWales> thats easy, a fish on a piece of rotating string.. ;)
[11:56] <Dave-M0MYA> lol!
[11:56] <NigeySWales> or the hamster on a turntable.. haha!
[11:56] <Dave-M0MYA> may cat just came in the shack and started tearing a bunch of insulation foam apart :(
[11:57] <Randomskk> :( cats
[11:57] <NigeySWales> oh nice! lovely unpredictable things arent they!
[11:57] <Dave-M0MYA> they don't mix well with delicate electronics
[11:57] <Randomskk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzzjgBAaWZw on the other hand, aww
[11:59] <NigeySWales> aw thats just cute
[11:59] <Dave-M0MYA> :D
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah - seen that. :)
[12:00] Action: LazyLeopard once saw photos of the work an inquisitive rabbit did to the cables on the back of a standard under-desk tower...
[12:01] <LazyLeopard> Very few of the pieces were more than a couple of inches long...
[12:01] <NigeySWales> yikes!
[12:01] <griffonbot> @twitbotix: #cuspaceflight: twitter bot test #cusf http://is.gd/gZVZw [http://twitter.com/twitbotix/status/3417179760365568]
[12:01] <jonsowman> wtf
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[12:02] <jonsowman> ffs
[12:02] <LazyLeopard> It remains a mystery how the rabbit managed to avoid frying itself on the mains cable...
[12:03] <Randomskk> lol what just happened
[12:03] <Randomskk> how does it ping timeout
[12:04] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:04] <LazyLeopard> Flakey network connection?
[12:04] <Randomskk> it should answer pings
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[12:04] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: z @jamescoxon: Running late; on my way to Cambridge
[12:04] <LazyLeopard> ...or client gone to sleep?
[12:05] <jonsowman> unfortunate hostname
[12:05] <Randomskk> hehe
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[12:08] <jonsowman> right, bbl
[12:08] <jonsowman> will keep you all updated :)
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[12:10] <Dave-M0MYA> is there a floater specific predictor? and if so, is there a prediction for this flight?
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[12:22] <NigeySWales> hi Ralph
[12:22] <NigeySWales> Dave-M0MYA, i was wondering that earlier
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[12:28] <kladol> 2
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[12:31] <griffonbot> @twitbotix: #twitbotix: #cuspaceflight: twitter bot test #cusf http://is.gd/gZVZw http://is.gd/gZYxD [http://twitter.com/twitbotix/status/3424658284093440]
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> hi
[12:36] Action: Laurenceb is at Churchill
[12:36] <Laurenceb> no-one else here !
[12:36] <Laurenceb> brunch was nice tho
[12:37] <Laurenceb> free wifi too - maybe i should move in... camp out in the cellar or something
[12:39] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[12:41] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.58) joined #highaltitude.
[12:41] <Laurenceb> hi jcoxon
[12:41] <Laurenceb> where are you?
[12:41] <NigeySWales> hey jcoxon
[12:41] <jcoxon> Cued
[12:42] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[12:42] <jcoxon> Picking up Jon and co
[12:42] Action: Laurenceb is at Churchill
[12:42] <jcoxon> But don't have their number!
[12:42] <jcoxon> Ping jonsowman
[12:44] <jcoxon> Anyone?
[12:44] <NigeySWales> not i, he said bbl bout 40mins ago though
[12:45] <m1x10> Hi jcoxon
[12:47] <jcoxon> Hi
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[12:55] <mixio> my internet sucks.
[12:55] <mixio> they think Im still in army and they play with my line!
[12:55] <NigeySWales> :(
[12:56] Action: Laurenceb contemplates going to sleep on the sofa
[12:57] <mixio> NigeySWales are u new hear? havent see you before.
[12:57] <mixio> hear/here
[12:57] <NigeySWales> i am indeed, hi :)
[12:58] <mixio> Are going to flight a balloon?
[12:58] <NigeySWales> hopefully, if i can wangle my way through the electronics
[12:59] <Laurenceb> had about 2 hours sleep last night
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> :/
[12:59] <NigeySWales> Laurenceb, snap, feel knacered now :(
[12:59] <Laurenceb> need more caffeine
[13:00] <NigeySWales> IV!
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> I am on the sofa ATM, with an electric blanket, similarly pondering going back to sleep.
[13:01] <mixio> NigeySWales from?
[13:02] <NigeySWales> cardiff
[13:02] <jcoxon> Just collecting the stuff
[13:02] <mixio> whats carddiff?
[13:03] <NigeySWales> where im from, .. sorry, cardiff, U.K
[13:06] <mixio> as Im not from UK I didnt know cardiff :p
[13:07] <NigeySWales> ahh sorry, south wales
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[13:12] <mixio> so u dont know electronics?
[13:12] <NigeySWales> not much no, so its a bit of a challenge
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[13:14] <m0hok> u here rob?
[13:15] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: #ukhas griffonbot test [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/3435771507769345]
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[13:16] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[13:16] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon
[13:16] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[13:16] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: #atlasballoon jcoxon griffonbot test [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/3435995043201025]
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[13:39] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: hi
[13:39] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - at churchill bar, waiting for gps lock [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/3441820293922816]
[13:53] <WillDuckworth> fingers crossed for a good launch
[13:53] <jcoxon> fingers crossed for a gps lock
[13:54] <DanielRichman> fsa03?
[13:54] <jcoxon> yup
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[13:58] <rjharrison_> jcoxon you all sorted now?
[13:59] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:59] <jcoxon> just waiting for a lock
[14:00] <rjharrison_> ready 4 launch or payload test
[14:00] <rjharrison_> view.php cleared
[14:01] <rjharrison_> is there a projection for this flight anywhere?
[14:01] <rjharrison_> Hey DanielRichman
[14:01] <DanielRichman> hi rjharrison_
[14:01] <rjharrison_> Hows it all going is habhub moving forward or a bit stlled at the moment
[14:02] <rjharrison_> I'v been out of action a bit with some weird headaches
[14:02] <rjharrison_> Still having them at them moment so taking it easy for a few more months
[14:02] <DanielRichman> habitat is moving along yeah, it's making good progress
[14:03] <DanielRichman> all the stuff we've done to that is on github
[14:03] <rjharrison_> Cool is there any news anywhere
[14:03] <DanielRichman> no news as such
[14:03] <rjharrison_> ok cool
[14:03] <DanielRichman> only commits as changelogs. they're pretty descriptive
[14:03] <DanielRichman> there's also the pivotal tracker
[14:03] <rjharrison_> hehe then they are better than mine :)
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[14:09] Futurity (~bill@cpc6-cmbg15-2-0-cust236.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:10] <rjharrison_> Oh lots of people comming in
[14:10] <Futurity> Hi everyone
[14:10] <jcoxon> typical gps issues
[14:11] <NigeySWales> still cant get a lock jcoxon ?
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[14:11] <NigeySWales> hi rjharrison :)
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[14:13] <Darkside> hey juxta
[14:13] <Darkside> bah
[14:13] <Darkside> just a ping timeout reconnect
[14:13] <rjharrison_> What GPS
[14:13] <NigeySWales> falcom i think
[14:13] <rjharrison_> lassen or UBLOX
[14:13] <NigeySWales> ublox
[14:14] <Futurity> is the balloon up already?
[14:14] <NigeySWales> i think he had running last night aswell, and only got 1 sat
[14:14] <NigeySWales> 2*
[14:14] <NigeySWales> hi Futurity dont think its up yet
[14:15] <Futurity> ok
[14:15] <Futurity> NigeySWales: thanks
[14:15] <NigeySWales> :)
[14:18] <jcoxon> okay got time
[14:18] <Upu> Afternoon
[14:18] <Upu> we got a launch today ?
[14:18] <NigeySWales> yey
[14:18] <Futurity> does anyone know where i can download the latest window7 version of fldigi?
[14:19] <Upu> topic says yay
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[14:19] <NigeySWales> hi Upu !
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[14:20] <Futurity> i've got fldigi v3.11.4 installed, but will this be up-to-date enough for today's launch?
[14:21] <NigeySWales> Futurity
[14:21] <NigeySWales> https://github.com/downloads/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.20.1.r111_setup.exe
[14:21] <NigeySWales> win7 ver
[14:21] <Futurity> thanks
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[14:22] <Futurity> i take it i have to upgrade? or is v3.11.4 not able to decode and upload?
[14:22] <NigeySWales> oh hang on wrong link
[14:22] <NigeySWales> https://github.com/downloads/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/dl-fldigi-3.20.16.r112_setup.exe
[14:23] <NigeySWales> not sure :/
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[14:24] <SpeedEvil> fldigi is the stock version - dl-fldigi is the uploading fork
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> (distributed listener)
[14:25] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: RT @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - at churchill bar, waiting for gps lock [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3453310128357377]
[14:25] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: RT @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - at churchill bar, waiting for gps lock
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[14:32] <Futurity> is there an estimate launch time as yet? I just need to pop out and want to be back for the launch ;)
[14:32] <NigeySWales> 3pm i think was the plan ?
[14:33] <Upu> well I'll head out with the radio when it launches
[14:33] <Laurenceb> we seem to have a lock
[14:33] <jcoxon> lock
[14:33] <NigeySWales> great :D
[14:34] <Upu> launch then :)
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[14:35] <LazyLeopard> ?me better get that antenna set up, I guess... ;)
[14:35] <NigeySWales> quick quick hehe
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[14:39] <Darkside> not on spacenear.us yet i see
[14:40] <NigeySWales> nup, i see theres a tracker in holland to :D
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[14:42] <NigeySWales> someone should do a live video broadcast of a launch, that'd be really cool
[14:42] <Darkside> ok
[14:42] <Darkside> i'll do that on monday :)
[14:43] <Darkside> just be awake at that time :P
[14:43] <NigeySWales> hang on, what time you launching ?
[14:43] <Darkside> it will be about 1:30:UTC on monday
[14:43] <NigeySWales> oh i'll be awake
[14:43] <Darkside> :)
[14:43] <Darkside> i'll do a live ustream from it
[14:44] <NigeySWales> yes! :D thatd kick ass !
[14:44] <NigeySWales> scuse the french..
[14:44] <Darkside> pff
[14:44] <NigeySWales> lol
[14:44] <Darkside> i use much worse language regularly
[14:44] <NigeySWales> fairy nuff :P
[14:44] <NigeySWales> everything still looking good weather wise for you ?
[14:45] <Darkside> i think so
[14:45] <Laurenceb> ok off 2 launch site, cya
[14:45] <Darkside> i miht check the predictor again
[14:45] <NigeySWales> gdgd!
[14:45] <NigeySWales> cya later Laurenceb !
[14:47] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=219804c6f4b73c4439eefcbea93a7dc7c5e086ff
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[14:48] <NigeySWales> that's looking pretty good
[14:49] <Darkside> short flight
[14:49] <Darkside> we won't make the landing site in time
[14:49] <Darkside> so we'll have to hope the predictor is accurate :P
[14:49] <NigeySWales> yeah it looks short, fingers crossed .. hope it stays away from that A road to lol
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[14:51] <NigeySWales> hi g4tnx
[14:53] <g4tnx> Good afternoon
[14:57] astr2001uk (~Adam@82.132.248.48) joined #highaltitude.
[14:57] <NigeySWales> hey astr2001uk :)
[14:59] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: On the field, about to start filling #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3462036054876160]
[14:59] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: On the field, about to start filling #cusf
[14:59] <Darkside> coool
[15:00] <astr2001uk> hi!
[15:00] <GW8RAK> Just got back in time. Afternoon astr2001uk
[15:01] <astr2001uk> hi GW8RAK
[15:01] <NigeySWales> hey GW8RAK
[15:01] <GW8RAK> Everybody ready?
[15:02] <Dave-M0MYA> yup ;)
[15:02] <Dave-M0MYA> talkback on 4m and local 2m repeater for interested local hams :)
[15:02] <m0hok> and eager
[15:03] <Dave-M0MYA> brb
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[15:04] <jcoxon> oh poo
[15:04] <jcoxon> issues with the tracker
[15:05] <jcoxon> $$ATLAS,64,15:03:03,52.2141, 0.0983,68,1,9,17;0;13;9;76*3BF3
[15:05] <jcoxon> filling now
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[15:05] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - filling now [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/3463436851748864]
[15:05] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, ping
[15:06] <jcoxon> going to need a hack around
[15:06] <Darkside> the space?
[15:06] Laurenceb (56bc91c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.188.145.194) joined #highaltitude.
[15:06] <jcoxon> the server removes teh space
[15:06] <Laurenceb> hi
[15:06] <jcoxon> and therefore miscalculates the checksum
[15:06] <NigeySWales> hey Laurenceb
[15:06] <Darkside> ooh
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[15:13] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: the server is including the space fine. I think the difference is due to it including the $$ in the checksum;
[15:13] Action: Dave-M0MYA can see about 7 billion carriers on 70cm ATM :)
[15:13] <DanielRichman> "ATLAS,64,15:03:03,52.2141, 0.0983,68,1,9,17;0;13;9;76" = 3BF3
[15:13] <DanielRichman> "$$ATLAS,64,15:03:03,52.2141, 0.0983,68,1,9,17;0;13;9;76" = 500D
[15:14] <DanielRichman> from robertharrison.org/listen/listen.php (debug): "Checksum found 3BF3 Calculated checksum= 500D"
[15:14] <rjharrison_> Hey DanielRichman
[15:14] <DanielRichman> hi
[15:15] <junderwood__> Try setting the payload identifier to $$ATLAS (i.e. listener expects $$$$ATLAS)
[15:15] <rjharrison_> I haver fixed this jcoxon, DanielRichman
[15:15] <rjharrison_> Working now but not prop[agating to spacenear us for some reason
[15:15] <rjharrison_> see http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker for time being
[15:16] <Laurenceb> how do i setup my position and callsign for uploads?
[15:16] <DanielRichman> ahh; was confused. I was uploading the $$ to listen.php
[15:16] <DanielRichman> my mistake. It does look like it's working
[15:16] <rjharrison_> Yep it's not obv but that should be removed :)
[15:16] <DanielRichman> rjharrison_: at the very bottom of listen.php; "Wrong password!
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[15:17] <DanielRichman> yet it seems to work if I open the page it claims it's accessing manually
[15:17] <rjharrison_> DanielRichman FIXED http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/test.php
[15:17] <DanielRichman> :)
[15:18] <rjharrison_> oh can you fix it to the new one
[15:18] <rjharrison_> that used towork
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[15:19] <rjharrison_> DanielRichman your mobile
[15:21] <Darkside> hm
[15:21] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Filled, launch imminent #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3467185338974208]
[15:21] <Darkside> cool
[15:21] <Darkside> spacenear.us is showing it
[15:21] <Darkside> but im not sure if its updating properly
[15:21] <Darkside> receivers is just showing 'test'
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[15:22] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Launched! #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3467553456267264]
[15:22] <jcoxon> launch
[15:22] <Darkside> ok
[15:22] <NigeySWales> :D
[15:23] <G4UFS> RXing Milton Keynes now
[15:23] dave_fev (56b54540@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.181.69.64) joined #highaltitude.
[15:23] <Darkside> doesnt appear to be updating on spacenear.us
[15:24] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon Launch [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/3467930553548800]
[15:25] <rjharrison_> shes off
[15:25] <DanielRichman> rjharrison_: found the bug
[15:25] <rjharrison_> http://www.robertharrison.org/tracker
[15:25] <rjharrison_> oh cool
[15:25] <rjharrison_> pm me
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[15:25] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: Launched! #cusf
[15:26] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[15:26] <DanielRichman> rjharrison_: done
[15:27] <junderwood__> got it in Bicester
[15:27] <Upu> ok I'm heading out now back on the 3G in 15mins
[15:27] <G4UFS> a few HZ drift?
[15:27] <rjharrison_> freq junderwood__
[15:28] <G4UFS> 434.0745 usb
[15:28] <junderwood__> 434073130
[15:28] <junderwood__> USB? Having to use RV on dlfldigi
[15:29] <Darkside> okeydoke, i think im gonna go to sleep now guys..
[15:29] <Darkside> cya
[15:29] <NigeySWales> nite Darkside
[15:30] <G4UFS> little more drift
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[15:31] <rjharrison_> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[15:31] <rjharrison_> trim(longitude) :)
[15:31] <NigeySWales> whats pid controller ?
[15:32] <fsphil> back
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[15:32] <NigeySWales> hey fsphil
[15:32] <fsphil> just launched?
[15:32] <NigeySWales> yup
[15:32] <fsphil> phew -- thought I'd miss it
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[15:33] <cusf-twitter> @cuspaceflight: Dial frequency 434.07313 MHz #cusf
[15:33] <LazyLeopard> Seeing signal, but it's not decoding...
[15:33] <fsphil> ooh, I'm getting morse code
[15:33] <fsphil> weird
[15:34] <NigeySWales> lol
[15:34] <NigeySWales> think they got morse on .650 ?
[15:34] jaybro (5ad160a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.209.96.169) joined #highaltitude.
[15:34] <fsphil> there is yea, and hellshriber (sp!)
[15:34] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Dial frequency 434.07313 MHz #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/3470397789966336]
[15:34] <fsphil> I can't spell that
[15:34] <jcoxon> remember - reverse
[15:34] <NigeySWales> whats hell* ?
[15:34] <GW8RAK> astr2001uk - we won't hear anything until it reaches 15km up. Green circle on tracker is radio horizon.
[15:35] <DanielRichman> hellschreiber?
[15:35] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellschreiber
[15:35] <NigeySWales> oh
[15:35] <fsphil> old german mode for sending text
[15:35] <fsphil> quite neat
[15:35] <LazyLeopard> Where's reverse?
[15:35] <DanielRichman> schreiben - to write, type.
[15:35] <fsphil> "Rv" button, bottom right LazyLeopard
[15:35] <NigeySWales> ohh how cool
[15:35] <GW8RAK> And Doctor Hell
[15:35] <astr2001uk> ok thanks, listening in
[15:36] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: griffonbot test #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/3470841702522880]
[15:36] <DanielRichman> hmm; slow, not dead then, griffonbot
[15:37] <fsphil> if it floats at 18km, I won't receive anything this time
[15:37] <chembrow> GW8RAK thx, wondered what that circle represented
[15:37] <LazyLeopard> Right. Making sense now. ;)
[15:37] <jcoxon> moving site
[15:37] <jcoxon> bbiab
[15:37] <NigeySWales> so anyone outside of that circle wont pick it up ?
[15:38] <GW8RAK> Without non line of sight propagation no.
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[15:38] <fsphil> up a mountain then maybe, I guess the green circle assumes your at sea level
[15:38] <GW8RAK> But I have heard a couple of balloons before they were truly over the horizon
[15:38] g1ivg (52198c7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.25.140.125) joined #highaltitude.
[15:38] <chembrow> I never get them up here in Stoke till around 10k up
[15:39] <NigeySWales> what's the blue circle?
[15:39] Action: Dave-M0MYA has it on hiswaterfall and a faint audio copy, not decoding yet
[15:39] <fsphil> remember to turn the squelsh off
[15:39] <g1ivg> I can hear it but no decode yet in IO92NL (Mkt Harborough)
[15:40] <GW8RAK> Well remembered.
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[15:40] <UpuMobile> I can hear it
[15:40] <NigeySWales> wb upu
[15:40] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... "Checksum valid <BR>\nSentence rejected:\nLockstatus = 1\n"
[15:40] <astr2001uk> whats the blue circle on the tracking page?
[15:40] <fsphil> I wish I had transport to get up the mountain
[15:41] <fsphil> astr2001uk, where at? I don't have one
[15:41] <NigeySWales> bike it! lol
[15:41] <fsphil> haha, 10km away -- I'd get 0.5km before I die ;-)
[15:41] <NigeySWales> lmao oh dear :p
[15:41] <fsphil> nah I'm not that bad ;-)
[15:41] <NigeySWales> oo chase car jus showed up on tracker
[15:42] <fsphil> there's a good hill nearby with a clear horizon, but I wouldn't be able to bike out the radio and computer
[15:42] <astr2001uk> the large blue circle concentric to the green one
[15:42] <GW8RAK> You should have started earlier
[15:42] <UpuMobile> coming and going atm
[15:42] <NigeySWales> fsphil, it'd be a struggle lol
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[15:42] <GW8RAK> I think that could be the radio horizon. I may have been wrong about the green one.
[15:42] <fsphil> ahh see that now astr2001uk -- not sure
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[15:43] <chembrow> according to the mouseovers:
[15:43] <fsphil> the blue one makes sense for the horizon
[15:43] <GW8RAK> I'm never sure of anything.
[15:43] <chembrow> green = 5 degree of horizon
[15:43] <chembrow> blue = horizon of atlas
[15:43] <fsphil> ooh that's new
[15:43] <GW8RAK> Thanks chembrow
[15:44] <chembrow> no idea what it means though :p
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[15:44] <NigeySWales> so right now its just over newmarket..
[15:44] <timbobel> hi guys in in (@ northern holland)
[15:44] <timbobel> its already up, right?
[15:44] <fsphil> hiya timbobel -- up and away yep
[15:44] <NigeySWales> hi timbobel ! @ 4300m
[15:44] jonsowman_mob (~jonsowman@82.132.211.143) joined #highaltitude.
[15:44] <fsphil> you should be receiving it shortly
[15:45] <jonsowman_mob> are people hearing it?
[15:45] <NigeySWales> slightly chiily outside at that height i see, -10
[15:45] <fsphil> internal's doing well
[15:45] <G4TNX> Very strong in North Lincs, cant get decode to work
[15:45] <fsphil> can't wait to see how the heater works
[15:45] <g1ivg> Yes I can hear it but so far no decode in IO92NL (Mkt Harborough)
[15:46] <GW8RAK> Just starting t o hear something.
[15:46] <fsphil> G4TNX, is it decoding anything?
[15:46] <M0DTS> wont be long before it's in with me.. chase car has a long way to go!
[15:46] <LazyLeopard> G4TNX: You may need to click on Rv bottom right ?
[15:46] <NigeySWales> whos in chase car ?
[15:46] <fsphil> Remember the rtty shift is probably wider than fldigi expects -- you may need to set a custom shift
[15:46] <jonsowman_mob> G4TNX: Yep you need reverse
[15:46] <astr2001uk> what's the frequency now?
[15:47] <jonsowman_mob> Shift will drop with temp
[15:47] RocketBoy_ (~steverand@212.183.140.53) joined #highaltitude.
[15:47] <fsphil> is the rtty backwards?
[15:47] <jonsowman_mob> fsphil: Yea you need RV
[15:47] <Futurity> hi, does anyone have the current frequency?
[15:47] <NigeySWales> hi RocketBoy
[15:47] <G4UFS> Is the CW beacon on?
[15:48] jcoxon (~jcoxon@212.183.140.23) joined #highaltitude.
[15:48] <GW8RAK> astr2001uk - listening on last published frequency of 434.07313
[15:48] <junderwood__> still good freq
[15:48] <timbobel> haha its very possible that you guys are going to love me so much
[15:48] <fsphil> lol
[15:48] <NigeySWales> lol
[15:48] <jonsowman_mob> timbobel: Got your chase boat out?
[15:48] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: RT @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon Launch [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/3473747898007553]
[15:48] <astr2001uk> thanks
[15:49] <NigeySWales> yeah lets have another boat rescue hehe
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[15:49] <timbobel> =)
[15:49] <NigeySWales> or swim? :P
[15:49] <timbobel> i do have the chase vehicle ready, to be honest.
[15:49] <G4UFS> CW Beacon anyone?
[15:49] <timbobel> Actually my friend has got a helicopter so if you want we could just fly up there and fetch it from the sky, as long as the predictor is working (is it?)
[15:50] <NigeySWales> tracker info has jus gone all weird
[15:50] <timbobel> HAb setting is ATLAS right
[15:50] <LazyLeopard> 434075.43 is current actual frequwncy so set dial about 1.5 below that...
[15:50] <jonsowman_mob> Yea
[15:50] <fsphil> G4UFS, should be working unless there was a last minute change -- still too far for me to receive
[15:50] <NigeySWales> helicopter? :o haha sweet!
[15:51] <fsphil> catch it in mid-air ;)
[15:51] <NigeySWales> lmao that'll be away from the tail rotor right? :P
[15:51] <fsphil> oops, forgot about that :D
[15:51] <jonsowman_mob> Cw and hellscreiber on 434.650 every 5 mins
[15:51] <fsphil> never let me fly a helicopter
[15:51] <timbobel> for some reason my location doesnt show on map...
[15:51] <NigeySWales> lol
[15:52] <timbobel> because i just changed it, then reset fldigi, now it doesnt show :(
[15:52] g6nhu (4e209523@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.32.149.35) joined #highaltitude.
[15:52] <g6nhu> o/
[15:52] <jonsowman_mob> Hi g6nhu
[15:52] <g6nhu> Getting the 70cms balloon here in JO01ou at a good S5 on a 2 x 5/8 colinear
[15:52] <fsphil> it'll come back on timbobel, as long as you have your coordinates and display name set
[15:53] <NigeySWales> -15 .. need a coat up there for sure
[15:53] <jonsowman_mob> Excellent
[15:53] <fsphil> wow, loads of listeners
[15:53] <g6nhu> I don't have anything to decode the RTTY but it's a cracking signal
[15:53] <fsphil> d'oh!
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[15:53] <GW8RAK> whereas I have the decoder, but no signal :-)
[15:54] <g6nhu> heh heh
[15:54] <fsphil> hearing anything yet GW8RAK?
[15:54] <fsphil> shouldn't be long
[15:54] <jonsowman_mob> g6nhu: Fldigi!
[15:54] <Futurity> i can here it and its showing in fldigi, but not decoding
[15:54] <NigeySWales> bah i dont get my radio for at least another week :(
[15:54] <Futurity> looking up baud details
[15:54] <junderwood__> dial freq now 434.0744
[15:54] <jonsowman_mob> Futurity: Use rv
[15:54] <g6nhu> What's the current location? (roughly)
[15:54] <NigeySWales> thetford
[15:55] <Futurity> 4340748 here
[15:55] WillD_android (~androirc@host86-170-116-209.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:55] <GW8RAK> fsphil - nothing yet, but it should be here soon. did hear some clear RTTY when the circle was east of chester.
[15:55] <Futurity> rv?
[15:55] <g6nhu> altitude?
[15:55] <NigeySWales> 6149m
[15:55] <jonsowman_mob> hit the rv button in fldigi
[15:55] <fsphil> got a single wandering carrier signal, probably local
[15:56] <g6nhu> 20,000ft then - nice
[15:56] <NigeySWales> g6nhu, .. http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[15:56] <GW8RAK> 434.07404 here
[15:56] <UpuMobile> noob q Yaesu 817 seems to be locked so i cant increase freq by small amounts
[15:57] <g6nhu> Thanks for the tracking link
[15:57] <fsphil> arg! who cuts there grass at this time of year?? causing noise on 70cm
[15:57] <UpuMobile> how do i unlock it ?
[15:57] <GW8RAK> Upumobile - there is an option in the menu for main dial tuning.
[15:57] <fsphil> UpuMobile, press the key beside the power button
[15:57] <GW8RAK> I thought that only happened on FM?
[15:57] <NigeySWales> g6nhu, no probs :)
[15:57] <UpuMobile> i found it
[15:58] <UpuMobile> cunningly the lock button :/
[15:58] ejcweb (836fcba3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.111.203.163) joined #highaltitude.
[15:58] <GW8RAK> RTFM
[15:58] <jonsowman_mob> hi ejcweb
[15:58] <NigeySWales> lol
[15:58] <jonsowman_mob> Thanks for your help today
[15:58] <g6nhu> Signal is weaker for me now but still good S3
[15:58] kladol (3e2da989@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.169.137) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:58] <UpuMobile> s7 he
[15:58] <UpuMobile> here
[15:58] <GW8RAK> Radio horizon is right on me now
[15:58] <ejcweb> hey jon. no problem, was good to be at a launch again.
[15:59] <Futurity> hi anyone able to message me to explain how to configure fldigi 3.11.4
[15:59] <G4TNX> Decoding ok in lincs now, good signal still
[15:59] <ejcweb> i can now waste the rest of my afternoon staring mindlessly as spacenear.us!
[15:59] <M0DTS> i'm sure i used to be able to manually enter shift in fldigi but now only selection box?
[15:59] <NigeySWales> ejcweb, join the club, ive been doing that the last hour lol
[15:59] <GW8RAK> Welcom to the club
[15:59] <UpuMobile> got it
[16:00] <jonsowman_mob> ejcweb: Hehe
[16:00] <timbobel> ok my radio station is up
[16:00] <NigeySWales> Futurity, theres a page on the wiki, but i dunno what version it uses.. for setup info
[16:00] <NigeySWales> 7.2km 4.7m/s ... cool !
[16:00] <jonsowman_mob> just hit autoconfigure with ATLAS
[16:01] <DanielRichman> What's the difference between the blue and green circles on spacenear?
[16:01] <NigeySWales> green - radio horizon blue = atlas horizon .. i think
[16:01] <jonsowman_mob> DanielRichman: Is spacenear working now?
[16:02] <DanielRichman> jonsowman_mob: yeah. The bug was that the space in lon was not being urlencoded when sent from rjh's box to spacenear
[16:02] <UpuMobile> I got a green one
[16:02] <m0hok> you rx anything rob?
[16:02] <DanielRichman> so a random space appeared in the query string => it broke
[16:02] <GW8RAK> fldigi is showing signal, but can't hear anything
[16:02] <jonsowman_mob> DanielRichman: Yea I heard, just wonderig if it had been fixed
[16:02] <UpuMobile> why is there a chase car on there is that me ?
[16:03] <timbobel> crap i forgot how to change antenna entrance on the yaesu 817 to the rear
[16:03] <DanielRichman> jonsowman_mob: well there's data on spacenear.us/tracker, so it lokos like it ;)
[16:03] <timbobel> cant find that menu
[16:03] <UpuMobile> timo hold F down
[16:03] <UpuMobile> wizz to 7 or 8
[16:03] <UpuMobile> move it
[16:03] <UpuMobile> hit f
[16:03] <NigeySWales> upu i think the chase car is you..lol
[16:04] <timbobel> upu, got it great!
[16:04] <fsphil> aaarg this lawn mower is really putting out noise now
[16:04] <m0hok> u rx anything rob?
[16:05] <GW8RAK> Did anyone notice what the pre launch xtal temperature was?
[16:05] <NigeySWales> 13 i think
[16:05] <GW8RAK> Oh, it's just jumped to 35C. It was 4C just now
[16:05] <jonsowman_mob> Ta DanielRichman, am on phone at the moment so can't check
[16:05] <timbobel> whats the exact freq now
[16:05] <jonsowman_mob> anyone listening to the cw/hell?
[16:05] <LazyLeopard> 434075.944
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[16:06] <NigeySWales> down to 2 now GW8RAK lol
[16:06] <g6nhu> xtal temp back down again, probably a glitch
[16:06] <LazyLeopard> ...so set dial a bit below that.
[16:06] <M0DTS> m0hok: Yeah got it weak here 434.075
[16:06] <timbobel> i heared four loud beeps :s
[16:06] <m0hok> kk
[16:06] <m0hok> nowt here
[16:07] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[16:07] <astr2001uk> same here so far
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[16:08] <Futurity> Hi, do i use the hab mode fldigi or the normal one?
[16:08] <fsphil> Futurity, the hab version
[16:08] <Futurity> thanks
[16:08] <timbobel> my yagi should be placed vertical right
[16:08] <fsphil> timbobel, yep
[16:08] <timbobel> elements vertical, pointing at the right pos
[16:09] <timbobel> does anyone have an exact freq
[16:09] <NigeySWales> 434075.944
[16:10] <fsphil> timbobel, according to the map you're in africa :p
[16:10] <timbobel> should i put it on AM?>
[16:10] <fsphil> usb
[16:10] <fsphil> G6DOF is in the indian ocean
[16:10] <M0DTS> MixW is decoding fine at 450hz shift but fldigi decoding nothing at 425hz!
[16:10] <timbobel> wtf how is that possible
[16:10] <jcoxon> How is it going
[16:10] <NigeySWales> warm in africa ?
[16:10] <timbobel> hat should the right pos be?
[16:10] <timbobel> IM GETTING SOMETHING
[16:11] <timbobel> YEAH
[16:11] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:11] <NigeySWales> hehe timbos got it :D
[16:11] <fsphil> timbobel, looks like you N coordinate is in as a negative
[16:11] <jcoxon> Any one get any hell?
[16:12] <fsphil> M0DTS, I suspect mixw has a better rtty modem
[16:12] <timbobel> can anyone tell me me right coordinates then???
[16:12] <timbobel> i pyut in 5.58, 4.68 ...
[16:12] <M0DTS> mixw decodes very little at 425hz too..
[16:12] <jcoxon> Could someone paste a string
[16:12] <fsphil> M0DTS, try changing fldigis shift to 450
[16:13] <fsphil> you can set a custom shift in the config dialog
[16:13] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: a hell string or a rtty string?
[16:13] Action: LazyLeopard is currently using 480 for shift
[16:13] <jcoxon> Rtty
[16:14] <NigeySWales> ATLAS,131,16:1131,52.6691, 1.6299,10088,1,11,0;25;-10;-43;72*AC74
[16:14] <DanielRichman> M6LEP : ATLAS,132,16:12:33,52.6852, 1.6932,10305,1,11,0;31;-11;-44;59*D200
[16:14] <NigeySWales> that what u wanted jcoxon ?
[16:14] G0OMH (5c1e9cc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.30.156.192) joined #highaltitude.
[16:14] <jcoxon> Thanks
[16:14] <G4UFS> here comes The Wash
[16:14] <M0DTS> fldigi only has dropdown list of shifts so i cant change, sure i could previously?
[16:14] <timbobel> totally lost track
[16:14] <jcoxon> So the pid is working
[16:15] <UpuMobile> I'm struggling as I can hear the sound when I plug the radio into my laptop
[16:15] <junderwood__> select custom shift
[16:15] <UpuMobile> is that a setting on my program or the laptop ?
[16:15] <junderwood__> crosswed the coast
[16:15] <junderwood__> custom shift is in fldigi
[16:15] <jcoxon> Bbiab
[16:15] <junderwood__> rtty modem setup
[16:15] <fsphil> M0DTS, the older versions didn't have it -- make sure you use the latest version of dl-fldigi
[16:15] <Futurity> Hi, HAB version running, selected atlas, then clicked Autoconfigure and the red lines moved to the correct spacing. however only getting gibberish decoded
[16:15] <M0DTS> have no custom shift... hhmm maybe i'm using old version?!!
[16:15] <m0hok> rob go to op mode choose rtty and custom
[16:15] <M0DTS> ha..ok
[16:15] <fsphil> Futurity, press the "Rv" button
[16:16] <M0DTS> i have old version
[16:16] <fsphil> the rtty is backwards apparently
[16:16] <GW8RAK> First strong definite signal at 434.07505 with centre curson on 1250Hz
[16:16] <m0hok> still zilch here for some reason
[16:16] <NigeySWales> and now over that big lake called the ocean !
[16:17] <GW8RAK> And 480Hz shift
[16:17] <G0OMH> Can hear it in Kent
[16:17] <M0DTS> thought fldigi looked 'different' to normah..ha
[16:17] <Futurity> thanks for the rv tip now decoding
[16:18] <fsphil> yay, lawnmower has stopped
[16:18] <NigeySWales> -47C .. eugh thats dam cold
[16:18] <NigeySWales> lawnmower? :o
[16:18] <fsphil> internal temp is pretty low too
[16:18] <NigeySWales> yeah down to -14 now
[16:18] <fsphil> NigeySWales, guy up the road was cutting his grass
[16:18] <fsphil> causing all sorts of impulse noise
[16:18] <fsphil> who cuts there grass in autumn? sheesh ;)
[16:18] <timbobel> doesnt it continuously transmit???
[16:18] <NigeySWales> i can imagine, tell him turn it off, cut grass in summer only! lol
[16:18] <NigeySWales> lmao
[16:18] GW8RAK_ (~chatzilla@client-86-31-249-237.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:18] <fsphil> timbobel, nope
[16:18] <m0hok> u still got a sig rob?
[16:19] <fsphil> it pauses between strings
[16:19] <fsphil> to save power
[16:19] <GW8RAK_> Is it transmitting all the time or are there pauses?
[16:19] G8DSU (5eaddc1d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.220.29) joined #highaltitude.
[16:19] <fsphil> last I heard there are gaps
[16:19] <GW8RAK_> Question just answered. I can see the signal shifting as it turns on.
[16:19] <M0DTS> yes still hearing signal
[16:19] <timbobel> 50 baud 8n1 500sh?
[16:19] <m0hok> not a peep
[16:19] <fsphil> 480 shift
[16:20] Action: Dave-M0MYA can't hear nyhing - very strange
[16:20] <timbobel> YEAH
[16:20] <DanielRichman> try scanning around nearby the freq
[16:20] <timbobel> þ$$ALAS,13816:146,52.753, 2p476,11423,11
[16:20] <fsphil> nothing here yet -- but I'm starting to think it's unlikely I will
[16:20] <DanielRichman> it shifts
[16:20] <timbobel> i dont know why at times it stays quiet
[16:21] <Futurity> can anyone advise me how much yellow noise that should be appearing to the left / right on the two lines? am i looking to have solid blue and only the lines?
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[16:21] <timbobel> who knows how to forward mic input to my speakers
[16:21] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[16:21] <timbobel> or to let the yagi ánd pass through phones output and thourhg its own speakers
[16:22] Maxmax (3e07e461@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.7.228.97) joined #highaltitude.
[16:22] <timbobel> ATÜAS,101v:2051l52n76Ó¢ª
[16:22] <G0OMH> still hearing the signal here in Kent
[16:22] <NigeySWales> Futurity,
[16:22] <NigeySWales> i think its meant to be something like this .... http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:dlfldigi4.jpeg?id=guides%3Atracking_guide&cache=cache
[16:23] <fsphil> it's not that important though, as long as it decodes
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[16:24] <fsphil> yay timbobel you're on the right side of the planet now
[16:24] <timbobel> i really have a great reception
[16:24] <timbobel> now
[16:24] darknesslord_ (~darknessl@189.164.185.185) joined #highaltitude.
[16:24] <timbobel> yeah i forgot a number
[16:25] g6uim (5b54d74b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.84.215.75) joined #highaltitude.
[16:25] <NigeySWales> 12km
[16:25] <timbobel> craaaap i missed a string by a few bits...
[16:25] <fsphil> heh, the balloon is moving away from me as quick as the radio horizon is coming towards me
[16:25] <timbobel> $$ATLAS,143,16:2358,52.7891, .r802,120x31,11,0;73-19;-48;t*8F
[16:25] Nick change: Maxmax -> G7UOZ
[16:25] <NigeySWales> lol phil
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[16:26] <fsphil> what's the predicted course? will it keep in this heading?
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[16:27] <NigeySWales> afaik
[16:27] <NigeySWales> havent seen a prediction since yesterday mind
[16:27] W0OTM-iPad (~w0otm-ipa@75-170-239-177.desm.qwest.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:28] <fsphil> is it floating already?
[16:28] <GW8RAK> Looks like it is starting to float
[16:28] g1ivg (52198c7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.25.140.125) joined #highaltitude.
[16:28] <NigeySWales> cool! -20 internal temp though :|
[16:28] <g6nhu> altitude levelling off?
[16:28] <fsphil> yea it's floating
[16:28] <NigeySWales> 12km
[16:28] <fsphil> earlier than expected
[16:29] <GW8RAK> But too low you fsphil and I
[16:29] <g6nhu> So around 40,000 ft then
[16:29] <NigeySWales> timbobel, you may be going for a swim after all...lol
[16:29] <fsphil> afraid so GW8RAK
[16:29] <GW8RAK> for
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[16:29] <fsphil> I wonder if james took into account the earlier sunset for the balloon travelling east
[16:30] <NigeySWales> how much does that effect things? was going to ask yesterday
[16:30] <timbobel> ok so my reception just sucks and cant tune very well since the string is not continuous
[16:30] <fsphil> oh that float is perfect
[16:30] <M0DTS> cw and hell are audable, no decode yet
[16:31] <NigeySWales> seems to have leveled at 12083m
[16:31] <junderwood__> 12km - 40,000 ft. A little too close to air traffic for comfort
[16:31] <fsphil> that or the gps has failed 8-/
[16:31] <g6nhu> 40,000 should be above most regular commercial air traffic
[16:31] <fsphil> uh-oh
[16:32] <fsphil> position isn't changing either
[16:32] <junderwood__> position is constant. GPS must be a little suspect
[16:32] <GW8RAK> Considering there is a xtal heater in there, I'm surprised the internal temperature has dropped so much.
[16:32] <junderwood__> oops
[16:32] g6gev (~g6gev@84-51-166-18.davida607.adsl.metronet.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:32] <DanielRichman> mmm the gps may have gone :-(
[16:32] <timbobel> 1.5 stopbit?
[16:33] <fsphil> timbobel, yea
[16:33] <DanielRichman> time is changing so maybe it just lost lock?
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[16:33] <timbobel> dinnertime.
[16:33] <g6nhu> That's likely, it was windy enough at 180ft today, I can't believe there's no wind up that high!
[16:33] <fsphil> that's true -- didn't that happen on the ground too?
[16:33] <timbobel> i have to put it in erverse too
[16:33] <NigeySWales> yeah he had probs getting a lock last night for ages
[16:33] <junderwood__> RIP GPS. jcoxon. Does the time come from GPS or internal clock?
[16:35] <fsphil> this happened before, and it came back
[16:35] <junderwood__> actually, the uBlox still gives you time when it has 0 sats
[16:35] <fsphil> there's still hope
[16:35] <fsphil> indeed, or a weak signal
[16:35] <NigeySWales> maybe the int temp causing it ?
[16:35] <fsphil> I get the time before I get a lock with mine
[16:36] <Futurity> does it matter that the two red lines aren't wide enough apart? i.e. between, not on top of the two yellow lines?
[16:37] <g6nhu> temps are still dropping slowly, looks like it still is climbing
[16:37] <fsphil> Futurity, it can do
[16:37] <fsphil> you can change the shift in the conf dialog to better match it
[16:37] <NigeySWales> who is tracking from somalia? lol
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[16:37] <Futurity> is there a way of pushing them further apart?
[16:37] <GW8RAK> Damn Pirates!
[16:37] <NigeySWales> lmao
[16:37] <junderwood__> Bad news folks.
[16:37] <fsphil> Futurity, configure -> modem -> rtty
[16:37] <M0DTS> got some hellschreiber at last
[16:37] <NigeySWales> they wont get much of a ransom for a HAB !
[16:37] <fsphil> set custom shift
[16:38] <G7UOZ> Hi guys, are you sure the GPS is supposed to operate above 12k? some are limited?
[16:38] <junderwood__> The uBlox must be in "Portable" mode
[16:38] <junderwood__> You need to put the uBlox into airborne mode.
[16:38] <LazyLeopard> Futurity: In configuration under Modems:RTTY it's Carrier Shift
[16:38] <junderwood__> otherwise it stops working at
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[16:38] <junderwood__> ....
[16:38] <junderwood__> 12km!!!
[16:38] follower_ (54510ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.81.10.193) joined #highaltitude.
[16:38] <GW8RAK> Oh dear!
[16:38] <NigeySWales> dammit
[16:38] <NigeySWales> well its still climbing by the looks of the temp
[16:39] <fsphil> yea
[16:39] <junderwood__> It will start working again on the way down
[16:39] <NigeySWales> and the light sensor
[16:39] <junderwood__> wherever that may be
[16:39] <Futurity> LazyLeopard: thanks
[16:39] <fsphil> I'll know if it gets over 25km if I start to receive it
[16:39] <NigeySWales> true
[16:40] <NigeySWales> -23 and -50 its def still climbing
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[16:40] <fsphil> light sensor is near zero too
[16:40] <fsphil> getting dark
[16:41] <NigeySWales> oh it just hit 15
[16:41] <fsphil> yea it's spinning
[16:41] <g6nhu> So once it hits float, how long is it _expected_ to stay there before it comes down again?
[16:41] <fsphil> ideally, until sunrise
[16:42] <g6nhu> wow
[16:42] <Dave-M0MYA> GW8RAK: any copy at your QTH?
[16:42] <jcoxon> Hmmm the flight computer sets it to airborne
[16:42] <jcoxon> Gps must have reset at some point
[16:42] <GW8RAK> Nothing here. Trying to find it in case frequency has shifted
[16:42] <jcoxon> Not good st all
[16:42] <Dave-M0MYA> ditto
[16:43] <NigeySWales> jcoxon, if its reset will it kick back in under 12k?
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[16:43] <GW8RAK> So still listening on .7405
[16:43] <g6nhu> I think the frequency has drifted up slightly, it was at 74.8 before, now it's at 75.2 for me
[16:43] <chembrow> i've been getting very occasional faint hints at a signal, but nothing even approaching decodable
[16:45] <GW8RAK> Yes, now on .75200
[16:45] <GW8RAK> Shift constant at 480Hz
[16:45] <Dave-M0MYA> still nothin here:(
[16:46] <GW8RAK> Just 2 faint lines in the noise
[16:46] <M0DTS> still cant select custom shift on new version? ideas?
[16:46] <GW8RAK> Op Mode, RTTY, bottom option Custom
[16:46] <fsphil> M0DTS, in the drop-down list for shifts -- no custom at the bottom?
[16:47] jonsowman_mob (~jonsowman@82.132.211.154) joined #highaltitude.
[16:47] <M0DTS> no custom!
[16:47] <fsphil> still an old version then
[16:47] <jonsowman_mob> Hows tracking?
[16:48] <M0DTS> v3.11.4
[16:48] <junderwood__> jonsowman, GPS stopped updating at 12km. Wrong mode
[16:48] <fsphil> should be very near dutch-mill by now
[16:48] <jonsowman_mob> oh is this nav mode?
[16:48] <junderwood__> yes
[16:48] <Futurity> is this a full string? $$ATA165,16:4:t,589, 2.22,12083,0,0;17;-2;20*96C
[16:48] <junderwood__> portable is default and assumes altitude is below 12km
[16:48] <fsphil> Futurity, few bad characters but nearly
[16:49] <fsphil> Futurity, you'll know you got a full string when the bar at the top turns green
[16:49] <fsphil> (in hab mode)
[16:49] <Futurity> lol, always the way, that by the time i'm setup the the signal almost lost ;)
[16:49] <junderwood__> Futurity, $$ATLAS,165,16:46:41,52.7891, 2.2802,12083,0,0,0;107;-25;-52;0*896C
[16:49] <g6nhu> Considering I'm only using a 2 x 5/8 colinear I'm amazed I can still hear it, but I am by the coast in Essex
[16:50] <g6nhu> I wish I had a decoder!
[16:50] <Dave-M0MYA> I wish I had a few more elements and a preamp ;)
[16:50] <GW8RAK> g6nhu - I've heard a balloon at 300km with the same aerial
[16:50] <fsphil> mmmm preamp... *drools*
[16:50] <GW8RAK> That's my goal for next time.
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[16:51] <fsphil> yea, definitely got to look into it
[16:51] <M0DTS> ~S7 here now with fading
[16:51] Action: g6nhu presses the 'preamp' button on the 847!
[16:51] <GW8RAK> I dream of S7!
[16:51] <fsphil> just static here ;-)
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[16:51] <fsphil> nice clean static now, at least -- no nasty noise
[16:51] <jonsowman_mob> are people still hearing it?
[16:51] <GW8RAK> Temperature is still dropping but that could be sunset
[16:51] <Dave-M0MYA> not here
[16:52] <jonsowman_mob> jcoxon: Ping
[16:54] <jonsowman_mob> bbl
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[16:55] <Dave-M0MYA> Ahhhh! M0DTS - google is always leading me to your website, for a diverse array of queries!
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[16:57] <g6nhu> Recording here: http://www.ocukroguesgallery.com/feek/atlas-long-duration-flight-13-11-2010.mp3
[16:57] <timbobel> hey i actually had some data lines
[16:58] <timbobel> GPS is borken?
[16:58] <NigeySWales> that recordings cool!
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[16:58] <timbobel> i repositioned my yagi
[16:59] <Dave-M0MYA> does anyone know what temp sensors are abord this flight?
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[16:59] <chembrow> it moved
[17:00] <NigeySWales> gps kicked back in i think
[17:00] <NigeySWales> 12146m altitude now
[17:00] <M0DTS> Dave: thats good... one day it may be useful..ha
[17:00] <NigeySWales> 0.2m/s
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[17:03] <GW8RAK> No longer in the radio horizon. Although signals are stronger for some reason
[17:04] <NigeySWales> looks like its headed for denmark :|
[17:04] <GW8RAK> Should be strong signals with timbobel
[17:05] <NigeySWales> yup he's well within the horizon now
[17:05] <junderwood__> if the altitude is wrong (and it is), the horizon is also wrong
[17:05] <fsphil> it moved?
[17:05] <fsphil> the position is different
[17:06] <M0DTS> not hearing 434.650 beacon now but rtty one is good signal.
[17:06] <junderwood__> we got one more fix, but the altitude is wrong (I think)
[17:06] <NigeySWales> yeah fsphil
[17:06] <NigeySWales> static again now
[17:06] <fsphil> aah pitch black now
[17:06] <fsphil> it should be floating
[17:07] <NigeySWales> temps leveled out to
[17:07] <fsphil> sounds good
[17:07] <M0DTS> lucky to have it float right on the cut off of gps!
[17:07] <NigeySWales> im betting £0.50p it ends up in denmark!
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[17:08] <fsphil> Germany is a good bet too
[17:08] <NigeySWales> i was going to say norway but dont think its far enough north for that
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[17:09] <junderwood__> M0DTS, it's well above 12km. The GPS just comes up with the best solution it can which is close to or below 12km
[17:10] <junderwood__> I still have a good signal in Bicester. It would be much weaker if it were only at 12km
[17:10] <NigeySWales> anyone know what that pid controller value is ?
[17:10] <junderwood__> 138 :)
[17:11] <NigeySWales> sorry, i meant what is a "pid controller"
[17:12] <Upu> I had to come inside it was very cold out there and my aerial kept blowing over :)
[17:12] <Upu> need to make some alteratations for next time
[17:12] <Upu> I can still hear it from my house using a whip but faint
[17:12] <fsphil> it's definitely out of range of here, even if it got to 30km now
[17:12] <NigeySWales> oh eck, bit cld up north i take it :(
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[17:12] <Upu> yeah it's wild :)
[17:13] <NigeySWales> dam :(
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[17:13] <Upu> I guess the blue circle is the radio horizon ?
[17:13] <NigeySWales> green
[17:13] <fsphil> aye
[17:13] <NigeySWales> huh thought green was radio?
[17:13] <Upu> Yeah I'm going to be out of range soon anyway
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[17:13] <Upu> no zoom out there is a big blue circle
[17:13] <fsphil> it used to be
[17:14] Action: LazyLeopard needs a steerable antenna above roof height. ;)
[17:14] <Upu> That is a hell of alot of recievers
[17:14] <RocketBoy_> whats the current frequency of the main transmitter?
[17:14] <NigeySWales> oh i see now
[17:14] <fsphil> it's brilliant ain't it
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[17:15] Nick change: M0VFC -> G3PYE
[17:15] <LazyLeopard> I had to move the radio to another room.
[17:15] <LazyLeopard> Hi Rob.
[17:15] <G3PYE> Evening!
[17:15] <LazyLeopard> Hi Camb Hams, even ;)
[17:15] <G3PYE> Just got some VHF gear set up @ G6UW - what's the latest?
[17:15] <timbobel> so did we lose gps or not
[17:15] <timbobel> im still at dinner
[17:16] Action: LazyLeopard is still hearing (but not decoding) signal.
[17:16] <G3PYE> what's the frequency at the moment?
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[17:16] <junderwood__> 434.096
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[17:17] <G3PYE> ta
[17:17] <junderwood__> oops. 434.086
[17:17] <junderwood__> (maths not working today)
[17:17] <junderwood__> dial freq is 434.075
[17:17] <G3PYE> oh yes
[17:17] <G3PYE> big here
[17:18] <LazyLeopard> I've got 434076.438
[17:18] <timbobel> yay succesful line
[17:18] <timbobel> 434 07488 here (NL)
[17:19] <M0DTS> signal going crazy here now as if it burst?
[17:19] <junderwood__> still looks fine here
[17:19] <timbobel> so it is actually going at 12k?
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[17:19] <M0DTS> nothing to S9 very fast qsb!
[17:19] <g6nhu> No, it must be well above 12k
[17:19] <junderwood__> timbobel, do you have a yagi?
[17:20] <M0DTS> must be some turbulence
[17:20] <jonsowman> hows things going all
[17:21] <Upu> very well it seems
[17:21] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[17:21] <junderwood__> still up there (somewhere)
[17:21] <junderwood__> don't believe the tracker
[17:21] <jonsowman> nav mode :(
[17:21] <junderwood__> GPS packed up at 12km
[17:21] <NigeySWales> ext tmp sensor is at 0c
[17:21] <Randomskk> man, silly gps
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[17:21] <Upu> Suspect thats because it's gone out of range NigeySWales
[17:22] <junderwood__> GPS doesn't expect to be >12km.
[17:22] <junderwood__> usually a good assumption
[17:22] <Upu> it was reading -56'C
[17:22] <NigeySWales> yeah mustve been a -55 limit sensor
[17:22] <Upu> back at -56'C now
[17:22] <junderwood__> Hey. New positions
[17:22] <NigeySWales> odd
[17:22] <junderwood__> .. still duff altitude
[17:22] <NigeySWales> ya and duff speed lol
[17:22] <LazyLeopard> Signal here very faint now.
[17:23] <g6nhu> the new location can't be right though, it's barely moved since the last one and that was a good few minutes ago
[17:23] <NigeySWales> its turned north
[17:23] <fsphil> it's coming down!
[17:23] <jonsowman> oh gosh
[17:23] <jonsowman> it is as well
[17:23] <NigeySWales> grab a boat!
[17:23] <Upu> timbobel
[17:23] <Upu> you're up :)
[17:23] <fsphil> haha
[17:24] <NigeySWales> timbobel, go get that chopper! lol
[17:24] <Randomskk> haha what
[17:24] <Randomskk> it's descending?
[17:24] <NigeySWales> yups
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[17:24] <NigeySWales> 2m/s
[17:24] <fsphil> looks like
[17:24] <Randomskk> oh god
[17:24] <Randomskk> that shoudln't happen
[17:24] <jonsowman> very slowly
[17:24] <fsphil> slow leak?
[17:24] <junderwood__> not convinced. Still duff GPS
[17:24] <Randomskk> the gps will be okay if the balloon actually drops below 12km though
[17:25] <NigeySWales> 11.9km
[17:25] <junderwood__> indeed. but before then it wiill guess
[17:25] <LazyLeopard> ...if it can get lock again...
[17:25] <junderwood__> and none of the guesses will be much above 12km
[17:25] <fsphil> oh it's leveled out again
[17:25] <junderwood__> it has lock
[17:25] <junderwood__> it just doesn't believe the results
[17:25] <LazyLeopard> Ah.
[17:25] Laurenceb (836f0142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.111.1.66) joined #highaltitude.
[17:25] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:25] <NigeySWales> hey Laurenceb
[17:25] <Laurenceb> SDR is being annoying
[17:25] <Upu> whats the PID controller value did someone mention that ?
[17:25] <Randomskk> yo Laurenceb
[17:25] <Laurenceb> i keep losing the odd character
[17:25] <NigeySWales> no1 told me when i asked lol
[17:26] <G3PYE> confirm I should be 50 baud?
[17:26] <NigeySWales> let me scrool up i think james mentioned it last night
[17:26] <Laurenceb> got some strong signal with the yagi
[17:26] <Randomskk> G3PYE: yea 50baud
[17:26] <Upu> G3PYE I think so just pick Atlas and hit auto configure
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> 50baud 8n1.5 shift 470-ish
[17:26] <M0DTS> fading it amazing at present, extremely fast
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> ...and Rv (reverse) bottom right
[17:27] <G3PYE> Thanks: it looks like a good signal on the waterfall, but no decode
[17:27] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/9VTTQ.png
[17:27] <Laurenceb> yeah 465 shift
[17:27] <Randomskk> G3PYE: you may need to hit Rv on fldigi
[17:27] <Randomskk> to swap sidebands
[17:27] <G3PYE> indeed, trying both ways
[17:28] <junderwood__> fading fast here
[17:29] <Laurenceb> looks like an lna would help with the SDR, but it gets a good signal with a decent ant
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[17:29] <fsphil> gps must be lying
[17:29] <junderwood__> lost it completely. That was quick!
[17:30] <NigeySWales> possibly although ext temp has risen 5degrees in the last 10mins
[17:30] <Upu> do we have a prediction for this flight ?
[17:30] <G0OMH> Weak but still there
[17:30] <Upu> At the rate its going we will need some listeners in Denmark
[17:31] <NigeySWales> we got 1 in somalia :|
[17:31] <Upu> thats the one who got plus and minus mixed up :)
[17:31] <NigeySWales> lol theyre gonna ransom the balloon
[17:31] <Upu> haha
[17:31] <NigeySWales> bit of a step down from a container ship mind .. lol
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[17:32] <junderwood__> OK. Giving up here. No chance of a decode
[17:33] <natrium42> nice, so crystal oven seems to be working
[17:33] <NigeySWales> hey natrium42
[17:33] <natrium42> hi o/
[17:33] <NigeySWales> crystal oven?
[17:33] <fsphil> like the crystal maze, only hotter
[17:33] <NigeySWales> lol
[17:34] Action: fsphil gets his coat
[17:34] <jonsowman> fsphil: D:
[17:34] <NigeySWales> 11.4km -4.8m/s
[17:34] <fsphil> it's some resistor heaters near the radio crystal
[17:34] <jonsowman> it's dropping very slowly
[17:34] <NigeySWales> ahhhh
[17:34] <NigeySWales> -9.9 now
[17:34] <fsphil> parachute!
[17:35] <fsphil> oh crap it might actually land in holland
[17:35] <NigeySWales> boat ?
[17:35] <jonsowman> fsphil: that'd be alright
[17:35] <NigeySWales> so its def on its way down ?
[17:35] <G4UFS> £0.50p says boat will be required
[17:35] <jonsowman> timbobel: good work on the tracking :)
[17:35] <g6nhu> I go away for a few minutes and it's coming down?
[17:35] <fsphil> G4FEV doing well too
[17:35] <jonsowman> G4UFS: can't afford that
[17:36] <NigeySWales> £15 says swimming trunks!
[17:36] <fsphil> be a chilly swim
[17:36] <G4UFS> LOS in Milton Keynes
[17:37] <NigeySWales> i reckon denmark
[17:37] <fsphil> lol
[17:37] <NigeySWales> to far north to stay in holland lol
[17:37] <jonsowman> shame about the gps
[17:37] <fsphil> washed ashore maybe
[17:37] <jonsowman> excuse for another launch I guess
[17:38] <NigeySWales> yush!
[17:38] <NigeySWales> what gps did u use after?
[17:38] <fsphil> I'm guessing it didn't float then --- it burst as if it had continued on up to 30km
[17:38] <jonsowman> this is the FSA03
[17:38] <NigeySWales> hmm
[17:38] <jonsowman> fsphil: seems like it
[17:38] <Randomskk> we did remember to take the tape off the vent right
[17:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: we did
[17:38] <NigeySWales> lol
[17:38] <Randomskk> maybe that little bit of extra helium was a bad idea
[17:38] <jonsowman> the asc. rate was looking perfect for float
[17:38] <NigeySWales> i said it was cmin dow didnt i, could see the temp rising
[17:39] <fsphil> spot on NigeySWales
[17:39] <Randomskk> the fish scales are okay but update pretty slow, they are designed for static loads
[17:39] <Randomskk> so take an average then hold it for ages before thinking about doing it again
[17:39] <jonsowman> yes, that's the way to do it
[17:39] <Randomskk> I mean, that's what they do
[17:39] <NigeySWales> -29 inside that box mind, dam chillllllllllly
[17:39] <Randomskk> it'd be better if they updated live
[17:40] <jonsowman> yes
[17:40] <NigeySWales> if you're really unlucky this could end up in poland :|
[17:40] <jonsowman> maybe using actual masses is easier
[17:41] <jonsowman> especially when the mass is this critical
[17:41] <Randomskk> eh
[17:41] <Randomskk> maaybe
[17:41] <Randomskk> the new launch technique is definitely a winner though
[17:41] <jonsowman> definitely
[17:41] <fsphil> what did you do differently?
[17:41] <Randomskk> hang on
[17:42] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/balloon_launch.jpg
[17:42] <NigeySWales> err..
[17:42] <Randomskk> basically you loop a long, strong line through a loop on the balloon neck
[17:42] <Randomskk> with one end free, and the other going to your spool
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[17:42] <Randomskk> then you hold both ends
[17:42] <Randomskk> the payload is suspended from the balloon by a lighter line
[17:42] <Randomskk> and just hangs
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[17:43] <Randomskk> you play the long line out and the balloon rises while tethered, but you are not holding the payload - it slowly goes up
[17:43] <fsphil> (83 people in channel .. woo ;-))
[17:43] <Randomskk> then when it's in the air and ready, you just let go of the free end of the long cable
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> And you can easily weigh it
[17:43] <jonsowman> fsphil: was thinking that
[17:43] <jonsowman> :D
[17:43] <Randomskk> it moves through the loop and the balloon ascends
[17:43] <Randomskk> smoothly, easily, clear of any obstructions and with little to no spin
[17:43] <dave_fev> That's about it from me guys. In the noise now.
[17:43] <jonsowman> and no swinging either
[17:43] <fsphil> so it's a semi-tethered launch
[17:43] <Randomskk> then the load cable goes all the way through, the end goes through the loop, it drops to the ground and you recover it
[17:44] <jonsowman> gets rid of radio fading
[17:44] <jonsowman> dave_fev: thanks for your help!
[17:44] <jonsowman> people have been excellent in helping with tracking today :)
[17:44] <dave_fev> Pleasure. Looking forward to the next one....
[17:44] <Randomskk> what's the green circle on the tracker?
[17:44] <Randomskk> blue is radio horizon I take it
[17:44] <jonsowman> dave_fev: hehe yes, me too
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[17:45] <Randomskk> hi james
[17:45] <NigeySWales> j!
[17:45] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[17:45] <fsphil> Randomskk, it's where the balloon is >5 deg of the horizon I think
[17:45] <jcoxon> hey
[17:45] <Randomskk> fsphil: ah okay
[17:45] <Randomskk> jcoxon: D:
[17:45] <natrium42> Randomskk, arew where balloon is 5 degrees above horizon or more
[17:45] <jcoxon> update?
[17:45] <jcoxon> i've been driving
[17:45] <natrium42> *area
[17:45] <Randomskk> you didn't set nav mode
[17:45] <NigeySWales> 8km -8.5m/s
[17:45] <fsphil> jcoxon, descending near holland
[17:45] <jonsowman> jcoxon: gps cut out at 12km
[17:45] <Randomskk> also it appears to have not floated
[17:46] <jonsowman> indeed
[17:46] <timbobel> a tree is totally blocking my view
[17:46] <jonsowman> :(
[17:46] <jcoxon> Randomskk, i did
[17:46] <jonsowman> timbobel: :(
[17:46] <jcoxon> even checked my code
[17:46] <Randomskk> jcoxon: you did and then took the battery out and reset it?
[17:46] <fsphil> cut it down !
[17:46] K6CAW (42d6e451@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.214.228.81) joined #highaltitude.
[17:46] <timbobel> just in
[17:46] <jcoxon> shame about the float
[17:46] <timbobel> $$ATLAS,22,1:44:36,3279,4.4510,4610,,8,1;14;-23-5;0*CF45
[17:46] <Randomskk> well otherwise it floated at 12km
[17:46] <jonsowman> jcoxon: yeah it is :(
[17:46] <jonsowman> reckon we overfilled a bit?
[17:46] <jcoxon> Randomskk, the flight computer sets it each boot
[17:46] <Randomskk> jcoxon: ah
[17:47] <timbobel> $$ATLAS,22,1:44:36,3279,4.4510,4610,,8,1;14;-23-5;0*CF45
[17:47] <Randomskk> in which case, why does it appear to have cut at 12k? was it actually floating?
[17:47] <fsphil> the position was stuck too -- it wouldn't float that well
[17:47] <NigeySWales> if it was it wouldnt have come down now ?
[17:47] <jcoxon> it didn't float
[17:47] <Randomskk> true
[17:48] <Randomskk> jcoxon: so it didn't float and also the gps cut out at 12km?
[17:48] <jcoxon> timbobel, what freq?
[17:48] <Randomskk> dynamic predictor reckons it'l splash down
[17:48] <jcoxon> Randomskk, yeah i guess so
[17:48] <jonsowman> bbl
[17:48] <Randomskk> D:
[17:49] <jcoxon> one success - the crystal temp was stable
[17:49] <fsphil> brb, mutts dinner time
[17:49] <Randomskk> true
[17:49] <Randomskk> the crystal oven appears to have worked really really well
[17:49] <Randomskk> was the frequency stable?
[17:49] <natrium42> prediction has it landing north of Vlieland
[17:49] <NigeySWales> timbobel, start swimming
[17:50] <Laurenceb> im off then, cya
[17:50] <timbobel> really having difficulties getting a lock
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[17:50] <timbobel> really hate the fact that its not continuously transmitting
[17:52] <timbobel> $$ATLAS,22,1:44:36,3279,4.4510,4610,,8,1;14;-23-5;0*CF45
[17:52] <timbobel> 50d55.304 5.Šò²‚b
[17:52] <timbobel> $ATLAS2,17p4ñpãq16h$58,1tL¼8.u·L¦ïK~ëÖ
[17:52] <jcoxon> timbobel, what is your dial freq?
[17:52] <timbobel> 434074
[17:53] <timbobel> its dead i think
[17:53] <timbobel> im out
[17:53] <timbobel> mission unsuccesful :'(
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[17:54] <fsphil> the north sea has been well fed this week
[17:54] <LazyLeopard> Indeed.
[17:54] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[17:54] <M0DTS> what you need is not a plane in the balloon it's a submarine..!
[17:54] <NigeySWales> lol
[17:55] <jcoxon> sorry about the gps issue, i did set it - maybe it reset at some point
[17:55] <fsphil> two props, have it return to base
[17:55] <M0DTS> interesting afternoon listening anyway.
[17:56] <M0DTS> yes exactly!
[17:56] <jcoxon> how bad is not having continous transmission
[17:56] <M0DTS> 434.650 signal dissapeared long before rtty one did, did it fail?
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[17:56] <Dave-M0MYA> I was not going to have continuous TX on my payload, however, I reckon that I will reconsider this =)
[17:57] <jcoxon> M0DTS, no - its the backup beacon with an up facing antenna
[17:57] <jcoxon> for when its on the ground
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[17:57] <jcoxon> Dave-M0MYA, for local flights i suggest it - however i did the mintute tx for a reason
[17:57] <jcoxon> as you save a lot of power
[17:57] <M0DTS> ah ok.. i got some hellschreiber from it at one point then nothing after.
[17:58] <jcoxon> M0DTS, it'll run for about a week
[17:58] <Dave-M0MYA> jcoxon: yes, that makes good sense
[17:58] <M0DTS> very useful
[17:58] <Dave-M0MYA> maybe it could be run intermittently, at say a 20% duty cycle
[17:58] <Dave-M0MYA> as a compromise
[17:59] <jcoxon> M0DTS, a previous flight it lead to a recovery in the netherlands
[17:59] <jcoxon> a ham DF'ed it 3 days later
[18:00] <jcoxon> also how was the freq stability
[18:00] <jcoxon> did it help to warm the crystal
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[18:00] <jcoxon> this was a test flight about the concept of long range flights
[18:00] <jcoxon> testing methods of txing and heating
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[18:01] <jcoxon> in some ways it is a success
[18:01] <NigeySWales> seemed quite stable
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[18:01] <M0DTS> yeah hope one lands up here sometime.. would be fun to have a go finding it!
[18:01] <M0DTS> stability definately better than usual.
[18:01] <NigeySWales> if ure lucky this'll wash up on shore by morning
[18:02] <junderwood__> jcoxon, if you are going to duty-cycle the radio, I suggest you transmit a few more preliminary characters to allow fldigi to re-tune at the start of a string
[18:02] <NigeySWales> although vieland looks rather uninhabited :/
[18:03] <junderwood__> I found a better way to maintain frequency is to measure the temperature and use a D/A to drive the radio appropriately to compensate
[18:03] <M0DTS> http://www.m0dts.co.uk/files/balloons/atlas%20hellschreiber.jpg
[18:03] <M0DTS> only one i got decode on, never really used that mode before, timing a little off i think!
[18:04] <jcoxon> M0DTS, interesting - must be the temp
[18:04] <M0DTS> or my setings
[18:04] <jcoxon> junderwood__, yeah i saw your method, you reckon better?
[18:04] Action: DanielRichman is back
[18:05] <DanielRichman> what's happened?
[18:05] <NigeySWales> splashdown
[18:05] <jcoxon> i missed alot of the flight - as was driving so still working out how good it was
[18:05] <M0DTS> off for tea...good luck for next time.
[18:05] <Randomskk> looks like gps cut out at 12km and then didn't float, has now most likely landed
[18:05] <junderwood__> jcoxon, worked better in testing. Unfortunately the temp sensor packed up during ascent (software problem) on HelioSS 1
[18:05] <junderwood__> will try HelioSS2 in the next few months
[18:05] <jcoxon> cool
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[18:07] <jcoxon> from the data it looks like the crystal stayed very much at 0 degrees
[18:08] <NigeySWales> pretty much, hardly moved off 0 iirc
[18:08] <NigeySWales> btw what was pid controller ?
[18:08] <jcoxon> yes
[18:08] <jcoxon> the set point at 1degC
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[18:09] <NigeySWales> ah
[18:09] <NigeySWales> wb futurity
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[18:10] <jcoxon> sunset seemed to be 16:45 ish
[18:11] <NigeySWales> yup
[18:11] <NigeySWales> got pretty cold in the box to mind, -29
[18:11] <jcoxon> yeah something to work on
[18:12] <jcoxon> lots of nice data
[18:12] <fsphil> I'd call that a success
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[18:12] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon - spashdown, didn't float, gps stopped working at 12km (mode issue) but crystal oven did help so something is positive [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/3510638542331904]
[18:13] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah, simple design, just temp sensor, 2 resistors and a transistor
[18:13] <jcoxon> and the PID control library
[18:13] <jcoxon> and its good that its sufficient to heat the crystal in a -27 environment
[18:14] <fsphil> anyone have any recordings of the signal?
[18:14] <jcoxon> perhaps i should make the setpoint higher
[18:14] <jcoxon> so that there isn't any initial drift
[18:15] <fsphil> wonder if there's a simple way to adjust based on frequency rather than temperature
[18:15] <jcoxon> and the PID controller only got to 182 out of 255
[18:15] <jcoxon> fsphil, thats what junderwood__ did
[18:15] <jcoxon> using a DAC
[18:15] <jcoxon> oh wait
[18:15] <jcoxon> he did it off temp
[18:16] <griffonbot> @tenbus_uk: @jamescoxon Bad luck James with #atlasballoon ! [http://twitter.com/tenbus_uk/status/3511414773780480]
[18:16] <fsphil> a frequency sensor would probably have the same problem, drifting
[18:17] <fsphil> nah, doing it by temperature is good enough
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[18:17] <fsphil> it's still far far better than before
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[18:18] <jcoxon> now this is interesting
[18:18] <jcoxon> i've found something
[18:18] <NigeySWales> ?
[18:19] <futurity> Hi everyone. Is it still up?
[18:19] <jcoxon> hold on
[18:19] <fsphil> taking a swim, futurity
[18:19] <jcoxon> okay so:
[18:19] <jcoxon> ATLAS,143,16:23:58,52.7891, 2.2802,12083,1,11,0;73;-19;-48;54*985F
[18:19] <fsphil> splashdown near holland
[18:19] <jcoxon> after altitude its lock status (1 or 0) then number of sats
[18:19] <futurity> Oh dear and data points near splashdown?
[18:19] <jcoxon> so here we have lock + 11 sats
[18:20] <jcoxon> ATLAS,144,16:25:00,52.7891, 2.2802,12083,0,0,0;78;-19;-47;31*AE12
[18:20] <NigeySWales> hm
[18:20] <jcoxon> here its no lock + 0 sats
[18:20] <timbobel> @jcoxon check mailbox for all my decoding in .txt file
[18:20] <jcoxon> then
[18:20] <jcoxon> the sats start to rise up, no lock
[18:20] <NigeySWales> odd
[18:20] <jcoxon> then we lose them
[18:20] <junderwood__> jcoxon, the gps receiver makes the best guess it can based on an assumption that the altitude is less than 12km.
[18:21] <jcoxon> then
[18:21] <jcoxon> ATLAS,176,16:58:03,53.0433, 3.2368,12146,1,5,0;106;-26;-54;0*299D
[18:21] <jcoxon> back up to 5 sats, and lock
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[18:21] <NigeySWales> that the same gps you were testing last night ?
[18:21] <fsphil> you can see a brief dip on the altitude chart, where it probably burst. but it's still reporting <12km
[18:21] <jcoxon> NigeySWales, yeah
[18:21] <NigeySWales> wondering if it was faulty at all, only 1 sat and no lock last night was really odd
[18:22] <timbobel> let me guess: you used a Flacom FSA?
[18:22] <fsphil> lol
[18:22] <jcoxon> timbobel, yeah
[18:22] <timbobel> Yeah, that spelled disaster
[18:22] <timbobel> no gps more unreliable than the falcom.
[18:22] <jcoxon> timbobel, thats not completely true...
[18:22] <jcoxon> but currently i can't argue
[18:22] <timbobel> it is my truth
[18:23] <timbobel> jcoxon: you should check the tides/direction of the water somewhere, and see if it went towards mainland
[18:24] <jcoxon> timbobel, http://www.oceanweather.com/data/
[18:24] <NigeySWales> might wash up on shore at vieland
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[18:26] <timbobel> ah no you're totally out of luck jcoxon,
[18:27] <timbobel> the tides are very high now
[18:27] <timbobel> it will drop, which means all the water will drain from the "Waddenzee" = region between the mainland and the islands
[18:27] <jcoxon> oh well
[18:27] <timbobel> which means there will be a strong flow to the north
[18:27] <timbobel> current is super strong there
[18:28] <timbobel> but still, a lot of stuff washes up, and every day, every morning it is collected by someone that keeps the beaches
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[18:32] <timbobel> but what was up with the 12km? was that incorrect, or?
[18:32] <jcoxon> timbobel, the ublox seemed to have gone into the wrong mode, even though it had been set on boot
[18:34] <timbobel> sigh
[18:34] <timbobel> oh well i'm glad for you that you've gotten rid of it, at least, so its not a terrible loss. at least you got a lot of sensorydata
[18:34] <timbobel> what did the controller control?
[18:35] <jcoxon> timbobel, there was a heater under the radio crystal
[18:35] <jcoxon> it maintained it at 0 degs through out hte flight
[18:35] <jcoxon> to reduce the radio drift
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[18:38] <jcoxon> timbobel, i've managed to extract some more data from your rx log
[18:38] <jcoxon> thanks
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[18:41] <timbobel> yeah i thought you could =)
[18:41] <timbobel> yeah i had to say, i experienced practically no drift at all
[18:41] <jcoxon> great
[18:41] <timbobel> so it controlled temp?
[18:41] <jcoxon> yes
[18:41] <timbobel> "heater"= resistor?
[18:42] <jcoxon> oh the radio crystal
[18:42] <jcoxon> of*
[18:42] <timbobel> so yeah that worked pretty sweet
[18:42] <timbobel> total bummmer it didnt float at 20k to denmark
[18:42] <jcoxon> oh well
[18:42] <timbobel> i had a much better view on that
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[19:07] <jcoxon> thanks everyone for tracking today!
[19:09] <NigeySWales> :) i could only stare at the tracker, noo radio here yet :/
[19:10] <jcoxon> NigeySWales, a bit far as well :-)
[19:10] <jcoxon> next time pehaps
[19:10] <NigeySWales> fingers crossed i in the ebay bid for a 790, ends tomorrow night :D
[19:10] <NigeySWales> win*
[19:10] <futurity> Hopefully I'll be able Yo successfully decode some packets next time ;)
[19:11] Action: LazyLeopard is slightly puzzled that the info for M6LEP doesn't show any data received...
[19:11] <futurity> Was surprised I code still hear it when almost at holland. Just couldn't decode it.
[19:11] <LazyLeopard> I know I uploaded lines, 'cos they appeared in the raw log.
[19:11] <NigeySWales> jcoxon, i did a prediction for a gigle to see where i'd land if i launched from merthyr tomorrow, just outside cambridge lol
[19:12] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:12] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, you're in there a few times
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[19:14] <LazyLeopard> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/loggers.php doesn't report any, either.
[19:15] <NigeySWales> weird
[19:18] <LazyLeopard> Strangely, http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/loggers.php seems to have me reporting lines twice. Or was that the way they were being generated?
[19:18] <fsphil> they where transmitted twice
[19:19] <fsphil> I noticed the repeat copy tended to be received by more people
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[19:22] <LazyLeopard> Oh yes... so they were. Last one I seem to have caught was 142.
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[19:53] <timbobel> instead of a copy, it would maybe have been better to have two different (smaller!) strings that have different info
[19:53] <timbobel> a big succes of my mission, with gigantic distances crossed, was the smallness of my sting. but then again, i didnt really have useful sensory data
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[20:02] <NigeySWales> all quiet now
[20:02] <jonsowman> hehe
[20:02] <NigeySWales> hey jon
[20:02] <jonsowman> hi NigeySWales
[20:03] <NigeySWales> fiance watching x-factor.. meh
[20:03] <fsphil> eek
[20:03] <jonsowman> haha... I don't admit to watching it
[20:03] <NigeySWales> id rather watch paint dry!
[20:04] <NigeySWales> how do i get project A.T.S listed on the wiki ?
[20:04] <fsphil> the old bbc test cards provided more entertainment
[20:04] <NigeySWales> lmao!
[20:04] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: make a page
[20:05] <NigeySWales> ohh, i thought it was a privately edited wiki, sweet!
[20:05] <fsphil> nah, just make an account and edit away
[20:05] <NigeySWales> will do :D something to do tonight as my temp sensors etc didnt arrive today :(
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[20:12] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: go for it
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[21:03] <NigeySWales> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:ats .. not much info at the mo im afraid
[21:03] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
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[21:03] <NigeySWales> wb jcoxon
[21:03] <jcoxon> HEY
[21:03] <jcoxon> oops caps
[21:03] <jonsowman> how are things?
[21:03] <jonsowman> sorry it didn't go exactly to plan today
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[21:03] <jcoxon> its okay
[21:03] <jcoxon> somethings went very well
[21:04] <jcoxon> good launch technique, the crystal heater worked
[21:04] <jonsowman> certainly the xtal oven worked
[21:04] <NigeySWales> you got some pretty good data though
[21:04] <jonsowman> yes, true
[21:04] <jcoxon> we'll need to do another soon
[21:04] <jonsowman> definitely, I'm up for it :)
[21:04] <jcoxon> get it right :-p
[21:04] <jcoxon> great
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[21:05] <NigeySWales> any guesses as to why it didn't float?
[21:05] <jonsowman> less helium next time, and more accurate fish scales
[21:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:06] <jonsowman> we (CUSF) have some better ones
[21:06] <jcoxon> lots of lessons
[21:06] <jonsowman> I wasn't expecting such a low neck lift
[21:06] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:06] <jcoxon> i think a similar payload
[21:07] <jonsowman> yep sounds good to me
[21:07] <jonsowman> that launch method is fantastic
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[21:09] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: wiki page is looking good
[21:10] <NigeySWales> ach its ok for now, im no good with websites etc lol
[21:10] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i'll write up the launch later on
[21:10] <jcoxon> probably worth lesson etc
[21:10] <NigeySWales> just want to document as much as i can in case it's of use to anyone else
[21:10] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: dokuwiki takes a bit of getting used to - the Getting Started page is handy
[21:10] <jcoxon> yeah fill the wiki up
[21:10] <jonsowman> jcoxon: definitely, sounds like a good idea
[21:10] <NigeySWales> reading it now as it happens
[21:11] <jonsowman> jcoxon: planning to move ukhas.org to habhub shortly
[21:11] <jonsowman> in contact with ben about it
[21:11] <jcoxon> i'm resisting writing a how to make a payload guide
[21:11] <jonsowman> jcoxon: oh, why?
[21:11] <NigeySWales> do it! with video tutorials to! lol
[21:11] <NigeySWales> for super dumb people like me :p
[21:12] <jonsowman> half the fun of doing this for yourself is finding things out for yourself and not just copying things directly
[21:12] <jonsowman> a general Howto might be a useful thing though
[21:12] <NigeySWales> yup, but i suppose general do's and dont's would be useful
[21:12] <jonsowman> especially with the bits that are known to catch people out
[21:12] <jcoxon> don't want it to be too easy
[21:13] <jonsowman> yea fair enough
[21:13] <jonsowman> that would take all the fun out of it
[21:14] <jcoxon> exactly
[21:14] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:14] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@sheeva.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[21:14] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:14] <jcoxon> NigeySWales, cause if you have a guide then when things go wrong you won't know why
[21:14] <jcoxon> also increasingly the construction is the fun part
[21:14] <NigeySWales> although it's hard, and takes alot of reading i've found it good so far, my only problem is alot of the info is scattered around
[21:14] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:15] <jcoxon> i might do how to interface with a ntx2
[21:15] <jcoxon> that will help a lot of people
[21:15] <jonsowman> yep
[21:15] <jonsowman> and there's more than one way of doing it
[21:15] <jcoxon> i'll do the way i use it
[21:15] <NigeySWales> oh i agree jcoxon if you do a copy paste kinda hab, you wont know whats gone wrong, and why .. then your totally stumped
[21:15] <jcoxon> then others can add it
[21:15] <jonsowman> which one's that? (I should probably know...)
[21:16] <jcoxon> i use 2 pins and resistors
[21:16] <jonsowman> cool okay
[21:16] <jcoxon> but there is the 1 pin version
[21:16] <jcoxon> then pwm and filter
[21:16] <jonsowman> ferret uses PWM, ferrettwo will be 1pin version
[21:16] <jcoxon> and also DAC
[21:17] <jonsowman> PWM on the arduino has bad implications though
[21:17] <NigeySWales> oh? :|
[21:17] <jonsowman> well, they're okay if you know what they are
[21:17] <jonsowman> you have to set the PWM frequency (Timer0) to 64kHz, which screws up millis(), micros() and delay()
[21:18] <jonsowman> which is not something a library should do really
[21:18] <NigeySWales> handy
[21:18] <jonsowman> hence switching to 1pin potential divider version for ferrettwo
[21:19] <jonsowman> and the library
[21:19] <fsphil> could a thermistor be used as part of the divider?
[21:20] <NigeySWales> im going to do..whichever method works, probably after banging my head against a wall a few times, and breaking the first module..lol
[21:20] <jonsowman> fsphil: why?
[21:20] <fsphil> counter the frequency drift
[21:20] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: the NTX2s are pretty resiliant
[21:20] <NigeySWales> thats good, its the gps 1 that scares me, apparently the lassens go bang easily
[21:21] <jonsowman> fsphil: potentially
[21:21] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: they do
[21:21] <jonsowman> just be careful with it and you'll be fine
[21:21] <jonsowman> especially overvolting and wrong-polarity
[21:22] <NigeySWales> will do, must remember to control that voltage lol!
[21:22] <jonsowman> they /really/ dont like either of those
[21:23] <NigeySWales> well i have jcoxon's breakout on the way for the lassen, then its just a case of managing the voltage
[21:23] <jonsowman> yup
[21:23] <jcoxon> how awesome is this: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/seeeduino-film-v09b-p-689.html?cPath=79_80
[21:23] <jonsowman> fsphil: I think jcoxon's method is probably more reliable
[21:23] <fsphil> yea
[21:23] <jonsowman> a thermistor would require really careful tuning
[21:24] <jonsowman> a feedback control loop is neater
[21:24] <fsphil> also has other advantages - having a heat source on the computer is nice, not just for the crystal
[21:25] <jonsowman> jcoxon: that's very neat
[21:25] <jonsowman> I like that
[21:25] <NigeySWales> do you guys use a whip for the ntx2 on the payload box, or build your own ?
[21:25] <jcoxon> make a 1/4 wave antenna out of wire
[21:25] <jcoxon> with wire ground plane radials
[21:26] <jonsowman> like this
[21:26] <jonsowman> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4414039114_7fdb7eaaa4.jpg
[21:26] <jonsowman> or something
[21:26] <NigeySWales> hadn't thought of a diy one hmm
[21:26] <jcoxon> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/gps-bee-kit-with-mini-embedded-antenna-p-560.html?cPath=84_89
[21:26] <NigeySWales> that just a piece of copper jon?
[21:27] <jonsowman> copper clad
[21:28] <NigeySWales> will try something similar then, saves me spending more money !
[21:29] <jcoxon> make it squishy
[21:29] <NigeySWales> squishy?
[21:29] <jonsowman> yes, no spears of death please
[21:29] <NigeySWales> oh.. i get ya lol i promise to make it spear free!
[21:29] <jonsowman> hehe
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[21:30] <NigeySWales> likelyhood is any lunch from south / mid wales is going to end up near you guys!
[21:30] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:31] <NigeySWales> that exempts you from the £50 reward though :p
[21:31] <jonsowman> ohh
[21:31] <jonsowman> :(
[21:31] <NigeySWales> pint instead? lol
[21:31] <jonsowman> sounds good :D
[21:31] <NigeySWales> haha dealQ
[21:34] <jonsowman> jcoxon: the trackatron worked well
[21:34] <jonsowman> heard the balloon for the whole flight
[21:34] <jcoxon> great
[21:39] <NigeySWales> someone made a mp3 of it, quite funky
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[21:44] <jonsowman> mfsk sounds great
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[21:49] <g6nhu> what's the latest, I've been out
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[21:50] <jonsowman> g6nhu: how were things when you left?
[21:50] <g6nhu> It had _just_ started descending
[21:50] <jonsowman> ah, I left at the point too, sorry
[21:51] <jcoxon> last data 4000m
[21:51] <jcoxon> the assumed splashdown
[21:51] <g6nhu> So it didn't make land?
[21:51] <jonsowman> not much chance
[21:51] <jonsowman> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:52] <g6nhu> Oh that's a shame
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[21:53] <jonsowman> yes, it is rather :(
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[21:54] <jonsowman> smea appears to be having connection issues....
[21:54] <fsphil> again :)
[21:54] <g6nhu> The track was just a bit too far north for any chance of recovery
[21:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: you planning to launch soon?
[21:55] <jcoxon> it'll bob up and down for a bit
[21:55] <fsphil> there's always the chance it landed on a boat or oil rig ;-)
[21:55] <fsphil> jonsowman, mid-december hopefully
[21:55] <jonsowman> excellent
[21:55] <fsphil> I'm half tempted to make it a floater too
[21:55] <jonsowman> :D
[21:55] <jonsowman> launching from N. Nireland?
[21:56] <jonsowman> *Ireland
[21:56] <fsphil> yea
[21:56] <jonsowman> cool cool
[21:56] <fsphil> plenty of land to the south and east
[21:56] <jonsowman> yep
[21:56] <jonsowman> irssi's highlighting is completely screwed
[21:56] <g6nhu> So what makes a balloon into a floater? (or not, in this case)
[21:58] <fsphil> a small hole in the bottom, and a launch just before sunset
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[21:58] <fsphil> it seems to stop ascending when the sun sets
[21:58] <LazyLeopard> ...in theory. ;)
[21:58] <g6nhu> I guess we'll never know how high this one went
[21:59] <fsphil> nope
[21:59] <fsphil> although a good guess could be made from the altitude graph
[21:59] <fsphil> the ascend speed will probably be fairly constant
[22:00] <jonsowman> and temp
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[22:03] <NigeySWales> temp hit -58
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[22:09] <fsphil> my rough calculation says it got to 23.3km
[22:10] <jcoxon> thats unsually low
[22:10] <jonsowman> very
[22:10] <jcoxon> jonsowman, could the line have broken
[22:11] <jcoxon> ?
[22:11] <fsphil> that's if the second bump is the burst point - and the ascent speed was constant
[22:11] <jonsowman> that's a thought
[22:11] <jcoxon> that 1.5kg was 'underfilled'
[22:11] <jonsowman> also the line is 8kg breaking
[22:11] <jonsowman> nominally, in any case
[22:11] <jcoxon> we'd never know i guess
[22:12] <jonsowman> it's not impossible, but seems a bit unlikely
[22:12] <jonsowman> and as you say, we're only ever going to be able to speculate
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[22:13] <g6nhu> If that's where it got then it was higher than planned, so would that be why it burst?
[22:13] <g6nhu> I find this all fascinating
[22:14] <jcoxon> g6nhu, the plan was for it to float at 18km
[22:14] <g6nhu> yup, I read that
[22:14] <jcoxon> however if it didn't start floating (quite hard to do to tell the truth) then it would keep rising
[22:14] <jcoxon> and would normally burst at around 30km
[22:16] <jonsowman> jcoxon: we shall have to try again :)
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[22:17] <jcoxon> jonsowman, indeed we should
[22:17] <g6nhu> My recording is here: http://www.ocukroguesgallery.com/feek/atlas-long-duration-flight-13-11-2010.mp3 That was around 16:56z
[22:18] <jcoxon> hehe southgate arc got my callsign wrong
[22:19] <g6nhu> The xtal oven did a fine job
[22:19] <jcoxon> great - i'm pleased with it
[22:20] <fsphil> very little drift there at all
[22:20] <jonsowman> that did seem to work very well
[22:20] <jonsowman> impressed with that
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[22:21] <g6nhu> Out of interest, what was the build time on this one?
[22:22] <jcoxon> g6nhu, ummm not too long about a month of the occasional evening
[22:23] <NigeySWales> jonsowman, i may switch my arduino mega for a Duemilanove
[22:23] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: why?
[22:23] <NigeySWales> seems even the microsd card shield i bought has issues with pin assignments on the mega
[22:24] <jonsowman> ah right
[22:24] <jonsowman> I can't help there I'm afraid, haven't used an SD card shield
[22:25] <NigeySWales> I have a Mega board, and the only way I have been able to get the shield to function is to jumper pins on the mega 53(SS),51(MOSI),50(MISO),and 52 (SCK) to the shield pins 8(SS), 11(MOSI), 12 MISO, and 13 (SCK).
[22:25] <NigeySWales> from SF
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[22:26] <g6nhu> night all
[22:27] <jonsowman> night
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[22:30] <jonsowman> 83 people in here earlier today
[22:31] <NigeySWales> yeah it got pretty busy
[22:31] <jcoxon> not bad
[22:31] <fsphil> good number of listeners too
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[22:40] <G4LOE> very enjoyable, look forward to the next, thanks
[22:41] <jcoxon> oh i people want updates i recommend subscribing to the ukhas mailing list
[22:42] <jcoxon> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
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[22:50] <jcoxon> haha http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/contemporary-minimalism-dso-nano-stand-p-631.html
[22:52] <NigeySWales> haha nice!
[22:56] <jonsowman> the "prototyping" picture makes that
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[23:02] <jcoxon> okay time for sleep
[23:02] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:03] <NigeySWales> jonsowman, found a solution to the sdcard problem finally!
[23:03] <jonsowman> oh excellent
[23:03] <jonsowman> what did you do?
[23:04] <NigeySWales> they moved the spi pins so have to reroute them
[23:05] <jonsowman> ahh
[23:05] <jonsowman> I see
[23:05] <NigeySWales> You *can* get this shield to work with the Arduino Mega. For those who have tried and failed, here is how. You do not need to change anything software-wise.
[23:05] <NigeySWales> The SPI pins for Arduino Mega are located elsewhere (pin 50-53 instead of 10-13).
[23:05] <NigeySWales> bit of a headache finding that bit of info, only took 3 hours :(
[23:05] <jonsowman> this is the kind of thing worth putting on the wiki
[23:05] <jonsowman> so that others can find it when they encounter the same problems
[23:05] <NigeySWales> definately
[23:06] <NigeySWales> answer was buried in a post on the sf pages
[23:06] <NigeySWales> as to wether or not i need those spi pins for anything else, im still checking, hopefully i dont
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[23:10] <fsphil> night all!
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[23:27] <NigeySWales> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:ats#notes .. hopefully that'll someone else alot of time jon :D
[23:28] <NigeySWales> hey zuph
[23:28] <jonsowman> good work
[23:28] <jonsowman> :)
[23:29] <zuph> Hola
[23:29] <NigeySWales> :)
[23:30] <jonsowman> damn gnome terminal and colons in urls
[23:30] <NigeySWales> lol they dont play to well
[23:31] <NigeySWales> id love to know what was in the latest update to gwibber, since then msn wont connect
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[23:32] <NigeySWales> hi SpeedEvil !
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[23:37] <SpeedEvil> hi.
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[00:00] --- Sun Nov 14 2010