[00:03] <jonsowman> night all
[00:04] <NigeySWales> night jon
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[00:06] <NigeySWales> meh confused.com
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[00:26] <Laurenceb> interesting
[00:26] <Laurenceb> there was no notam out
[00:26] <Laurenceb> notam was put of by US navy over the launch area, but after the launch
[00:27] <NigeySWales> odd
[00:27] <Laurenceb> that makes it look a bit more odd
[00:27] <NigeySWales> so its oficially a ufo ?
[00:27] <Laurenceb> like they were trying to find whoever launched it
[00:27] <Laurenceb> its clearly a sub launched missile
[00:27] <NigeySWales> ohh
[00:28] <Laurenceb> from the trail
[00:28] <NigeySWales> maybe theyre testing that new defence shield again and it screwed up, they might not want the embarassment of another failure
[00:37] <Laurenceb> http://www.sinecreations.com/GOES.gif
[00:40] <NigeySWales> interesting
[00:42] <NigeySWales> juxta, i think i got that voltage thing solved :D
[00:42] <juxta> good work :)
[00:43] <juxta> what was your solution?
[00:45] <NigeySWales> Logic level converter from SF
[00:45] <NigeySWales> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8745
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[00:46] <NigeySWales> having a heck of a time trying to find a uk supplier for the smd header though
[00:47] <natrium42> did you try rs electronics?
[00:47] <natrium42> wait
[00:47] <natrium42> that's usa
[00:47] <natrium42> :P
[00:47] <juxta> you dont need that NigeySWales
[00:47] <juxta> you can do the level shifting with a potential divider
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[00:48] <juxta> & that level converter won't take care of the power supply for the gps
[00:48] <NigeySWales> oki, then ive got things a bit wrong :/
[00:48] <juxta> in fact, that converted would need to be connected to both the high voltage an low voltage power supplies
[00:49] <juxta> to get your 3.3v supply you need something like this
[00:49] <juxta> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=526
[00:49] <juxta> hey natrium42, how're you doing?
[00:49] <natrium42> good, what about you?
[00:50] <NigeySWales> err.. ok..
[00:50] <juxta> things are good, a little disappointed that we probably won't be able to launch this weekend though :(
[00:51] <natrium42> you are launching way too frequently anyway :P
[00:51] <juxta> haha
[00:51] <juxta> i turned your atmosphere model into a java class and have the offline predictor working great now
[00:51] <juxta> at least simulation says it should work
[00:52] <natrium42> cool
[00:52] <natrium42> now you can catch more payloads, eh?
[00:52] <juxta> here's a pic of it: www.bogaurd.net/pred.png
[00:52] <juxta> hmm, that's the plan ;)
[00:52] <juxta> actually, that's not the pic i wanted
[00:53] <juxta> try this www.bogaurd.net/ozi.jpg
[00:54] <natrium42> looking good
[00:55] <juxta> will be good to see if I got it right & it works :)
[00:55] <NigeySWales> juxta, thanks, i'll order the part you said, sorry ive gotten confused on this all day
[00:55] <juxta> no worries NigeySWales
[00:55] <juxta> you can probably get a 3.3v regulator locally though
[00:55] <juxta> any electronics store should have them for a dollar or two
[00:55] <NigeySWales> found 1 at digikey in the uk
[00:55] <NigeySWales> 49p! lol
[00:55] <juxta> :)
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[01:00] <Laurenceb> http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/11/video-kcbs-chopper-tapes-mystery-missile-launch-off-california-coast/1?csp=34news
[01:01] <Laurenceb> sounds plausable
[01:01] <Laurenceb> given the odd lighting
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> It's like those 'spiral UFO' things
[01:07] <Laurenceb> the "flame" is reflecting sunlight
[01:07] <Laurenceb> explains why it fades on off
[01:08] Action: Laurenceb is still faffing with xtal filters
[01:08] <Laurenceb> simmed in octave
[01:09] <Laurenceb> looks like i need 2 trimcaps
[01:09] <SpeedEvil> How does it look?
[01:09] <SpeedEvil> Wjhat's the bandwidth like?
[01:09] <Laurenceb> 2hz or so
[01:09] <Laurenceb> one to tune the xtal, one to cancle its parasitic capcaitance
[01:11] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[01:11] <SpeedEvil> I guess some of the AM should get through the modulation
[01:11] <SpeedEvil> err
[01:11] <SpeedEvil> through teh filter
[01:12] <SpeedEvil> The AM that is - it'll eat the other stuff.
[01:12] <Laurenceb> ant+ --- 100k to gnd ---xtal ---- trimpot to ant- and trimpot to gnd --- opamp
[01:12] <Laurenceb> ant- --- 100k to gnd
[01:12] <Laurenceb> something like that
[01:13] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[01:13] <SpeedEvil> Is the antenna a ferrite rod?
[01:13] <Laurenceb> the trimpot to ant- enables you to cancel the crystals parasitic capacitance
[01:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:13] <Laurenceb> with a cap on
[01:13] <Laurenceb> ill use a hacked conrad module
[01:14] <Laurenceb> second trimpot tunes the freuquency
[01:14] <SpeedEvil> Then what - to an opamp or jfet or something?
[01:14] <Laurenceb> yes, then avr adc
[01:15] <Laurenceb> maybe 2 gain stages and a digital pot
[01:15] <Laurenceb> adc at 19.2ksps
[01:15] <Laurenceb> converts the carrier to 700hz or so
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> the sample/hold is good enough?
[01:16] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:16] <Laurenceb> you can get a few hundered khz bandwidth
[01:26] <Laurenceb> around 115khz absolute minimum
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[01:28] <Laurenceb> according to the datasheet
[01:28] <Laurenceb> so sample a well filtered signal at 19.2ksps
[01:28] <SpeedEvil> the AVR is externally clocked?
[01:28] <Laurenceb> yes, by the vctcxo
[01:29] <SpeedEvil> Just wondering, as someone else got annoyed by jitter on the internal clock
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> They changed silicon rev, and some working servo controllers suddenly started using _lots_ more power.
[01:30] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:30] <Laurenceb> thats the rc osc
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> As the clock met the datasheet +-1.5% - but it met it instead of having a monotonic slowly moving frew, a cycle-cycle jitter
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> freq
[01:31] <Laurenceb> hmm 700hz exactly if its sampled at 19.2k
[01:31] <Laurenceb> thats handy
[01:33] <Laurenceb> i can stick the adc code in the timer isr
[01:33] <Laurenceb> for the cc
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> neat.
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> And have a really low bandwidth correction loop
[01:35] <Laurenceb> yep
[01:36] <Laurenceb> problem is most of the vctcxo thingies output 1v sine wave
[01:36] <Laurenceb> but they are +-1ppm which is nice
[01:37] <Laurenceb> apparently the cc will eat 300mv sine wave
[01:37] <Laurenceb> so i could sent i the sine wave and use it to clock the avr using clk output
[01:37] <Laurenceb> *it
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - some of the mobile phone targeted crystals are quite accurate.
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> GPS too
[01:38] <Laurenceb> yeah, 1pps input
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> I mean - gps crystals too
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> I'm somewhat surprised nobody has done a canned 1pps input xtal
[01:40] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6720775
[01:40] <natrium42> oh, so i was right about RS being in UK
[01:40] <Laurenceb> yup
[01:41] <Laurenceb> for added crazy, dead bug & encase in candle wax
[01:42] <Laurenceb> to stop fast temperature shifts
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> cheap too
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[01:44] <Darkside> aww the 50MHz TXCOs are almost 100 pounds
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> naah
[01:45] <Darkside> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6715840
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CW657-ND
[01:46] <Darkside> oh cool
[01:46] <Darkside> should use one of those on my HF transmitter :)
[01:46] <Darkside> then it will be *really* stable
[01:47] <Laurenceb> my cc is pretty good now it has a case
[01:47] <Laurenceb> its got a factory cal trimpot
[01:49] <Laurenceb> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=fae1b616d77988a626e5a0cce3dd1f81&action=dlattach;topic=22395.0;attach=241179
[01:53] <SpeedEvil> corrupt PDF here
[01:54] <Darkside> same
[01:56] <Laurenceb> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22395.msg623684#msg623684
[01:56] <Laurenceb> there
[01:56] <Laurenceb> the merlin2 design is interesting
[01:56] <Laurenceb> i like the turbine exhaust injector
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> Impressive - though I haven't looked at the PDF due to bandwidth issues
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> thrust/weight looks fun
[02:05] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, are you still on 56k?
[02:06] <SpeedEvil> No, I'm streaming video.
[02:07] <natrium42> :P
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[08:30] <jonsowman> yep it's definitely going in the sea today
[08:30] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0af2577fe7b1e4a6cd3b04966409de5b30813736
[08:33] <Randomskk> not much chance there
[08:33] <Randomskk> we're looking at 8mph winds and sunny, 7C for 3pm
[08:34] <Randomskk> (bbc don't do 2pm)
[08:34] <Randomskk> and good visibility at that
[08:34] <Randomskk> fairly nice launch conditions
[08:35] <jonsowman> excellent
[08:35] <jonsowman> that'll do fine
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[09:16] <NigeySWales> uhoh
[09:16] <NigeySWales> Apache has hit Oracle with an ultimatum: grant its independent implementation of Java a license or it's quitting Java's governing body.
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[09:20] <LazyLeopard> ...and if they quit, what'll they call their implementation? A#?
[09:21] <NigeySWales> hehe makes you wonder, tbh oracle dont give a crap about java
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[10:34] <fsphil> nice blue sky here today -- hopefully the same in cambridge
[10:43] <jonsowman> fsphil: not terrible here at the moment
[10:43] <jonsowman> not great either
[10:43] <jonsowman> meant to be improving throughout the day though
[10:49] <juxta> jonsowman, you guys going ahead with launch this arvo?
[10:51] <fsphil> hehe, never heard 'arvo' before - will have to use that in the office at some point today
[10:51] <jonsowman> juxta: yes
[10:53] <juxta> oh cool - no GPS onboard though?
[10:54] <juxta> fsphil, I kind of assumed it was British... perhaps it's just us aussies :)
[10:55] <fsphil> haha, well according to wikipedia (which is never wrong) it's an Australian and New Zealand slang term
[10:56] <jonsowman> no, just a CW beacon
[10:56] <jonsowman> ident signal aiui
[10:59] <jonsowman> bbl
[10:59] <jonsowman> will try and keep #highaltitude updated during launch
[10:59] <jonsowman> twitter is easier from phone though
[11:00] <jonsowman> hashtags \o/
[11:09] <Laurenceb_> its launching now?
[11:17] <eroomde> jonsowman: what hashtag?
[11:17] <eroomde> oh sorry you said
[11:18] <eroomde> #highaltitude is full of crud
[11:18] <eroomde> how about #ukhas?
[12:01] <jonsowman> sorry that was unclear
[12:01] <jonsowman> i meant i will use #ukhas or #cudf to keep the irc channel #highaltitude updated
[12:01] <jonsowman> courtesy of griffonbot
[12:01] <eroomde> ah right cool
[12:02] <eroomde> have set up tweet deck accordingly
[12:02] <jonsowman> *cusf
[12:02] <eroomde> may aswell give this twitter thing a chance
[12:02] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:02] <eroomde> what's the best twitter iphone client jonsowman
[12:02] <eroomde> ?
[12:02] <jonsowman> i use Twitter (used to be Tweetie)
[12:02] <jonsowman> until twitter took over it
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> eww titter
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[12:13] <jonsowman> must be off, mention me on here if im needed. i get emailed :)
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[12:16] <Dave-M0MYA> afternoon folks
[12:17] <Dave-M0MYA> anyone know the frequency for this afternoons launch?
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: spacex PDF - awesome - shiny.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> I really hope their second falcon 9 launch this year goes OK
[12:24] <fsphil> Dave-M0MYA: 434.075 mhz I believe
[12:24] <Dave-M0MYA> ahha! cheers, fsphil
[12:25] <fsphil> give or take a few khz
[12:25] <Dave-M0MYA> cool cool. quagi is mounted on tripod, '817 temporarily hooked up to the PC in the living room, dial set and fingers are crossed :)
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[12:25] Action: Laurenceb_ doesnt have radio on him
[12:25] <Laurenceb_> :(
[12:26] <Dave-M0MYA> do I need to select a particular payload in dl-fldigi?
[12:27] <fsphil> this flight won't have telemetry, so it doesn't matter
[12:27] <fsphil> just a cw beacon
[12:28] <Dave-M0MYA> will fldigi still be able to upload the decoded data to the tracker?
[12:28] <fsphil> it'll decode the CW, but there is no data in it to upload
[12:28] <fsphil> from what I've heard it'll just be an identification
[12:28] <Dave-M0MYA> ah. gotcha
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> I seem to vaguely remember smeone did a proto-tool for location+bearing
[12:29] <fsphil> not sure what the aims are, if indeed there are any ;-)
[12:29] <fsphil> oh I remember that
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> Any progress on this?
[12:30] <fsphil> if we all had a really good common time source, we could probably track it fairly well from the radio signal alone
[12:30] <Dave-M0MYA> as in time differential of arrival?
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> that in principle works, but it'd be easier and cheaper just to jam a GPS on than setup the infrastructure. :)
[12:31] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: this is one reason why im investigating dcf77
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> 9KHz bandwidth of a SSB radio limits you to c/9KHz ish resolution
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> which is large
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[12:32] <Laurenceb_> few if any radios are 9khz
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> most are <3
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> whos going to the launch on saturday?
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> is Rocketboy going?
[12:44] <Dave-M0MYA> is this a sacrificial launch?
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> wondering if id be able to get a lift from the station
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah we're sacrificing to the balloon god
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> flying latex monster
[12:45] <Dave-M0MYA> :)
[12:45] <Dave-M0MYA> is there an objective, other than just to have fun launching a CW beacon into near space?
[12:46] <Upu> is it floating or just up and down ?
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[12:51] <juxta> ping Darkside
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[13:23] <NigeySWales> afternoon all
[13:37] <GW8RAK> Afternoon NigeySWales
[13:37] <NigeySWales> hi GW8RAK :)
[13:38] <GW8RAK> Just hitting my head against a brick wall, also known as understanding CRC.
[13:38] <NigeySWales> i felt a right numpty today, waiting for a delivery of a........empty box! lol
[13:38] <GW8RAK> Are you sure it didn't contain the Emperor's New Clothes?
[13:38] <NigeySWales> eugh crc is no fun!
[13:39] <NigeySWales> yup yup, its my payload box, i think it was a medical container or something :|
[13:39] <GW8RAK> I think I understand it, but I'm trying to understand other people's code. It all looks the same, but I'm trying to understand the differences.
[13:40] <NigeySWales> i find alot when i look at code, only very slight differences can make huge changes
[13:42] <GW8RAK> Although I don't mind copying other peoples code, I do prefer to at least understand it.
[13:44] <NigeySWales> best way, its all good copying code, but if you dont know what it means you're screwed if it goes wrong
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[13:45] <LazyLeopard> Incidentally, which Twitter account gets the running commentary?
[13:45] <GW8RAK> On the ukhas website,there is a line of balloon data with a checksum after it. I did have some code which returned the correct code, but can't find it now. The code I've tried today gives different values
[13:47] <NigeySWales> ohh i think i was looking at that a few days ago
[13:47] <Dave-M0MYA> what platform is this for GW8RAK?
[13:47] <GW8RAK> A Picaxe chip.
[13:48] <GW8RAK> There are various bits of published code. I'm trying to work out which to use.
[13:48] <Dave-M0MYA> ahh - sorry, I can'ty be of any use to you :)
[13:48] <GW8RAK> I appreciate that Picaxes are a minor chip/flight computer here, but it's all I know about.
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[13:49] <Dave-M0MYA> I am going down the arduino route, namely because when I looked at what balloonie bits of source I could find, arduino looked the easiest to understand =)
[13:50] <Dave-M0MYA> so far it has been a rewarding learning curve
[13:51] <GW8RAK> I keep being tempted to get an Arduino, but then sanity returns and I'll stick to BASIC. C may be "better", but my interest is not in programming.
[13:52] <Darkside> >_>
[13:52] <Darkside> i can't stand basic
[13:53] <GW8RAK> I had the benefit of a Sinclair ZX81. You probably come from a more enlightened generation!
[13:53] <Darkside> haha
[13:53] <Darkside> i used BASIC when i was younger
[13:53] <GW8RAK> And before anyone asks, no, I don't have it anymore!
[13:53] <Dave-M0MYA> I have this horrible tendency to jump in as far as I can. For me this whole endeavour started out as "I just wanna takey some nice pics of the earth from space". Now it has turned into "I wanna learn about physical computing and take some piccies from space". Bleh!
[13:53] <NigeySWales> i had a 128! lol
[13:54] <NigeySWales> Dave-M0MYA, snap!
[13:54] <GW8RAK> And no, I'm not using one in the balloon.
[13:54] <Dave-M0MYA> My first computer was a Spectrum +2 ;)
[13:54] <NigeySWales> and as a newbie to electronics, im finding it quite a challenge lol
[13:54] <GW8RAK> Although a BBC B would have A to D's in it!
[13:54] <Darkside> i haven't been using an arduino for my experimental transmitters..
[13:54] <NigeySWales> use a c64! lol
[13:54] <Darkside> i've been using an Atmel XMega
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[13:55] <Darkside> programmed in C of course ;)
[13:55] <GW8RAK> Dave-M0MYA - that is exactly how I've progressed, from a simple project to much more. Loads of enhancements in the pipeline. Just need to get this CRC understood first.
[13:55] <Dave-M0MYA> you'll crack it, I'm sure
[13:55] <Darkside> heh, i just used the code from the ukhas site :P
[13:56] <Dave-M0MYA> Darkside: I was sorely tempted just to bodge about my pic programmer and burn Robert Harrison's code to an AVR =)
[13:57] <Darkside> heh
[13:57] <Darkside> anyway, sleep tiem for me
[13:57] <Darkside> need to be up ridiculously early tomorrow
[13:57] <Darkside> i.e. in 6 hours
[13:57] <Darkside> nn
[13:57] <Dave-M0MYA> nn
[13:57] <NigeySWales> nn dude
[13:57] <GW8RAK> nn
[13:58] Action: Dave-M0MYA finally got his order placed with Radiometrix today
[13:58] <Dave-M0MYA> and is about to order temp sensorts and a UART prototyping board
[13:58] <NigeySWales> ahh you ordered with them direct ?
[13:58] <Dave-M0MYA> yup - its a bit convoluted - you email your order and they ring you up the next day to take your card details
[13:59] <Dave-M0MYA> saved me a fiver over Farnell tho
[13:59] <NigeySWales> yeah, with me they sent a proforma invoice, theni had to call and pay next day, but it came following dy special delivery
[13:59] <NigeySWales> by*
[14:00] <NigeySWales> which is kinda funny, yesterday had most of my components turn up, today, a £6 empty polystyrene box lol !
[14:01] <Dave-M0MYA> ah cool - where'd you find that?
[14:01] <NigeySWales> ebay, let me get you the link, looks like a company that recycles the EPS boxes used to carry chilled medicl products
[14:02] <eroomde> we got a box of empty boxes from a wholesaler online once. i think i've lost the details
[14:02] <Dave-M0MYA> cheers NigeySWales , much appreciated. I was gonna build one, but I figure one that is formed rather than moulded will have better structural integrity
[14:02] <Dave-M0MYA> *formed rather than jointed
[14:02] <eroomde> used them to make this payload case: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/
[14:02] <NigeySWales> yup, this 1 seems very sterdy, a good 5 / 7 cm thick walls
[14:03] <NigeySWales> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/labwaste-ltd
[14:03] <Dave-M0MYA> cheers NigeySWales ;)
[14:03] <NigeySWales> eroomde, thats looks cool! like the harmless experiment notice to! :D
[14:04] <Dave-M0MYA> yaaaay! Ferret flight computer - I'm using the ferret code as the basis for mine
[14:04] <NigeySWales> ahh ferret, thats the code i was looking at the other day
[14:05] <Dave-M0MYA> I suspect it gets looked at lots - RTTY on arduino - who could pass that up :)
[14:07] <NigeySWales> i havent looked at the code side of mine as much as i should have yet, still learning about how to control the voltages on the hardware
[14:07] <NigeySWales> although i did finally come up with a project name :D
[14:07] <eroomde> be warned it's not bomb proof - jonsownman and Randomskk often get a little jumpy because they threw it together in about an hour and it's not had much flight testing!
[14:08] <NigeySWales> eek
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[14:09] <NigeySWales> Project A.T.S ! must do a web page or add it to the wiki
[14:09] <Dave-M0MYA> eroomde: I know, jonsownman warned me (I feel bad mentioning his name - his emailey phone will be beeping!) I'm a touch worried about the code myself, but I figure its the best shot I have. Whats your experience been with it
[14:10] <NigeySWales> hi Gnea
[14:10] <Gnea> hi
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[14:15] <Dave-M0MYA> NigeySWales: Project A.T.S. Whats that stand for?
[14:15] <NigeySWales> Above The Sky
[14:15] <Dave-M0MYA> Nice. Not 2A Taff in Space"? ;-D
[14:15] <NigeySWales> haha nope :p
[14:16] <GW8RAK> With those initials, you could get sponsorship
[14:16] <NigeySWales> friend of mine used to own a business by the same name, went bankrupt but gave me permission to use the name for the hab project
[14:16] <Dave-M0MYA> I have also decided on a name for mine: "N.S.S Flight of Fancy"
[14:16] <NigeySWales> oo nss?
[14:17] <Dave-M0MYA> Near Space Shuttle
[14:17] <NigeySWales> now thats good naming :D
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> It only explodes 0.5% of the time?
[14:17] <Dave-M0MYA> But it is of course, a blatent nod to Star Trek *looks suitably embarrassed* :-)
[14:17] <NigeySWales> as opposed to no space shuttle in a years time :/
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> Honestly, I'm glad.
[14:17] <Dave-M0MYA> yeah, that is a huge shame
[14:17] <Dave-M0MYA> why so?
[14:17] <NigeySWales> SpeedEvil, im in 2 minds
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> Space shuttle was a hideous waste of money.
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> The budget for it could have enabled _so_much_ more to be done in a more efficient manner.
[14:18] <NigeySWales> it needs retiring or major overhaul, but no humans in space by nasa.. relying on commercial, just seems wrong
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> The fundamental problem with space shuttle is that the design was set by barking mad requirements.
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> this has caused most of the problems.
[14:19] <NigeySWales> commercial are driven by profit margins, they can fanny about all they like saying its not but its true, i fear corners will be cut and lives lost
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> the huge wings are required to be able to launch/recover a polar orbiting satellite in one orbit, and land back in the continental USA.
[14:19] <NigeySWales> oh i agree the whole concept was hijacked by the dod
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> Space-x looks a whole lot more sane.
[14:20] <NigeySWales> well, i dont want to pre judge them, i just dont wish to see any more lives lost, especially as a result of a profit driven error
[14:20] <russss> the shuttle is launched and maintained by a private company.
[14:21] <NigeySWales> usa, but theyre so tied into nasa they may as well be a goverment agency
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> Because losing your life to beurocratic inefficiency is a noble death that anyone would aspire to!
[14:22] <NigeySWales> ula*
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> NASA got poisoned by money.
[14:22] <NigeySWales> time will tell i guess
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> NACA was a good organisation focussed on basic research.
[14:22] <russss> yeah, I wouldn't trust a government which came out with a design as bafflingly insane as the Shuttle to build a new vehicle which was any safer.
[14:23] <NigeySWales> nasa and ula has been far from perfect, challenger proved that
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Apollo and its legacy have fucked the designs of all NASA projects.
[14:23] <russss> it's USA, and Challenger was actually pre-USA
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> For example - look at any contract for almost anything they specify.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> It's not 'convey xKg to this orbit'.
[14:23] <NigeySWales> i thought usa took over before challenger ?
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> It's 'Convey xKg to this orbit using this list of technologies which boeing/lockmart/... has special expertise in or has already flown, with this specific design of vehicle'
[14:24] <russss> at any rate, private companies are going to start sending humans into space regardless of whether NASA pays them to
[14:25] <russss> "USA is a joint venture which was established in August 1995"
[14:25] <NigeySWales> true, and i think everyone agrees it will never be "safe" to think that is foolish
[14:25] <NigeySWales> wow that late in the program
[14:25] <russss> before that NASA was the main contractor themselves
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[14:27] <NigeySWales> cant remember who it was than ran the booster contracts back then but they were subbed out as most of it is now
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[14:30] <NigeySWales> will anything be on the spacenear.us tracker for this launch ?
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> A large helvetica red question mark.
[14:31] <NigeySWales> ooo
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> dunno really
[14:31] <NigeySWales> lol oki
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[14:39] <fsphil> it's just launched apparantly
[14:40] <fsphil> the bot must be broke
[14:40] <NigeySWales> yups :(
[14:41] <fsphil> right then, people nearby should be hearing it already
[14:45] <LazyLeopard> Nowt on Twitter @cuspaceflight
[14:45] <NigeySWales>
[14:45] <NigeySWales> Sorry, 434.0007 MHz dial #cusf less than a minute ago via Twitter for iPhone
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[14:48] <fsphil> that seems lower than normal
[14:48] <NigeySWales> thought so
[14:50] <fsphil> the ntx2 input pin must be tied to gnd -- if it's even an ntx2 they're using
[14:51] <Rich12> good morning
[14:51] <NigeySWales> pass :/ hi Rich12
[14:51] <NigeySWales> btw whats a pinhole floater?
[14:53] <Dave-M0MYA> accordin to the ticker on twitter, "Carl Sagan" is a trending topic. Ace, but since when did the masses like Carl Sagan?!
[14:54] <fsphil> it's where there is a small hole in the bottom -- it rises until the sun sets, then it begins to float
[14:54] <Rich12> http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php?id=status25092010
[14:54] <Dave-M0MYA> is that what this launch is for?
[14:54] <NigeySWales> oh i see, interesting
[14:55] <fsphil> nope -- but jcoxon's launch this weekend is a pinhole floater
[14:55] <fsphil> in preperation for an iceland -> scotland flight
[14:55] <Rich12> http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/28920029762
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[14:56] <Dave-M0MYA> excellent
[14:58] <fsphil> dial frequency 433.9973
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[14:59] <fsphil> lots of lovely bleeps and buzzes on 70cm today
[15:00] <Dave-M0MYA> yep - every time I hear one my heart leaps, then I realise it's just somebodie's oil watchman or remote themometer ;)
[15:00] <russss> heh
[15:01] <russss> yeah, my currentcost transmits on 434
[15:03] <Dave-M0MYA> fsphil: it that the dial freq you are monitoring on?
[15:05] <fsphil> yep -- though I can't yet it yet, just forwarding it from the twitter updates
[15:06] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, cheers
[15:06] <fsphil> 433.9900 MHz now
[15:06] <Dave-M0MYA> is this due to thermal drift in the oscillator?
[15:06] <fsphil> indeed
[15:07] <fsphil> this weekends flight has a heater, to hopefully stabilise the drift
[15:08] <Dave-M0MYA> this is something I am considering for my payload
[15:10] <Dave-M0MYA> whereabouts are you located fsphil?
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[15:12] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: What mode're you in?
[15:12] <fsphil> middle of n.ireland
[15:12] <fsphil> usb
[15:12] <Dave-M0MYA> ahhh. I'm in the very west of the english west midlands
[15:12] <fsphil> I won't hear it until it gets above about 18km
[15:14] <fsphil> a nice spot dave, had a long bus journey through that area
[15:14] <LazyLeopard> Not hearing anything here...
[15:14] <LazyLeopard> Well, nothing that sounds like CW, anyway...
[15:14] <Dave-M0MYA> yeah, I'm pretty lucky to live here. It can be a bit remote, but its lovely
[15:14] <Dave-M0MYA> *everywhere* is a long bus journey from where I am :)
[15:15] <Dave-M0MYA> and where are you, LazyLeopard?
[15:15] <LazyLeopard> Orpington, NW Kent.
[15:15] Action: russss should have set his rig control up
[15:17] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, alittle closer than me then
[15:18] <fsphil> is anyone hearing it yet?
[15:18] Action: Dave-M0MYA wished dl-fldigi could be set to "always on top"
[15:18] <Dave-M0MYA> negative
[15:18] <NigeySWales> no reciever yet :(
[15:18] <fsphil> Dave-M0MYA: not a bad idea, shall add that to the wishlist
[15:20] <Dave-M0MYA> splendid! :)
[15:21] <WillDuckworth> Dave-M0MYA, NigeySWales, I'm looking to do a launch Ledbury way in the next few weeks if you guys want to help out?
[15:22] <Dave-M0MYA> I'm not a driver, but if it's a day I can get a lift, or I can arrange public transport, I'm there!
[15:22] <NigeySWales> sure, sounds good, will help if i can get there :D
[15:23] <WillDuckworth> or at least with fldigi and upload :)
[15:23] <NigeySWales> that's doable, hopefully ill find a reciever in my price range on ebay soon!
[15:24] <NigeySWales> yaseu is slightly over my budget at the mo
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[15:24] <Dave-M0MYA> WillDuckworth: can do ;)
[15:24] <NigeySWales> RocketBoy, :D
[15:25] <RocketBoy> hiya - is anyone listening to the payload
[15:25] <RocketBoy> ?
[15:25] <Dave-M0MYA> I saw an FT-790 at the Llandudno rally for 80GBP, I nearly bought it to sell on at cost to the HAB community, but I didn't have enough sponddolicks on me
[15:25] <NigeySWales> ah dam :(
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[15:26] <jonsowman> hi all
[15:26] <NigeySWales> i think fsphil and Dave-M0MYA are listening for it RocketBoy
[15:26] <jonsowman> damn griffonbot!
[15:26] <NigeySWales> hey jon, launch go well ?
[15:26] <jonsowman> yep all went fine thanks
[15:26] <Dave-M0MYA> I am monitoring, but not heard anything yet
[15:26] <NigeySWales> awsome
[15:26] <jonsowman> 434.000 MHz nominal
[15:26] <NigeySWales> Dave-M0MYA, if you see another for under £100 let me know :D
[15:26] <jonsowman> was at 433.990 when I left
[15:27] <jonsowman> RocketBoy: hi
[15:27] <Dave-M0MYA> I'll keep an eye out NigeySWales, I have an ask round the local hams as well
[15:27] <LazyLeopard> How often is it transmitting, and what is it saying?
[15:27] <Dave-M0MYA> *I'll
[15:27] <NigeySWales> thanks dave, appreciated!
[15:27] <Dave-M0MYA> np
[15:28] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: CW ident signal every 10-15 secs with blips inbetween
[15:28] <LazyLeopard> Ok, so continuous enough to be found...
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[15:29] <jonsowman> LazyLeopard: yep tuning it is not too bad
[15:29] <jonsowman> RocketBoy can probably give you a dial frequency
[15:30] <jonsowman> 433.990 last I heard
[15:30] Action: jonsowman slaps griffonbot
[15:30] <Randomskk> did griffonbot not work?
[15:30] <NigeySWales> lol poor bot
[15:31] <fsphil> turn it off and on :p
[15:31] <NigeySWales> nup
[15:31] <jonsowman> Randomskk: nope
[15:31] <Randomskk> ffs
[15:31] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yagi?
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[15:32] <Randomskk> yes
[15:32] <jonsowman> :D
[15:33] <Dave-M0MYA> NigeySWales: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT-790R-UHF-70cm-Transceiver-/230545506273?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item35ad953fe1
[15:34] <NigeySWales> ooooo
[15:34] <Dave-M0MYA> but it looks mint, so I think it'll fetch a bit
[15:34] <NigeySWales> thanks, ill put it on watch :D:D
[15:34] <Dave-M0MYA> good stuff
[15:35] <Dave-M0MYA> www.junksale.co.uk sometimes has one on as well
[15:36] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: did you want some CRC code for PICAXE?
[15:36] <jonsowman> Dave-M0MYA: wrt ferret, feel free to use it but I just advise testing it lots yourself
[15:37] <Dave-M0MYA> wrt?
[15:37] <jonsowman> with respect to
[15:37] <Dave-M0MYA> I was planning on feeding it with a GPS simulator lots ;-)
[15:37] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, of course ;)
[15:37] <jonsowman> it has only ever flown with a GPS known to cut out at 24km, so we've never got a complete track from it. but put a proper GPS on and it should be alright
[15:38] <jonsowman> the first flight had a meridian bug, which should be fixed (use the code in ferret2/ on the github repo)
[15:38] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, I wandered what the difference was
[15:38] <jonsowman> I need to put that in the readme
[15:38] <jonsowman> obviously it comes with absolutely no guarantees
[15:38] <Dave-M0MYA> natch :)
[15:39] <Dave-M0MYA> but then, neither does anything else in the world of HABing ;)
[15:39] <jonsowman> true
[15:39] <jonsowman> as eroomde said, I'm just a bit wary of people taking it for code that Just Works
[15:39] Action: Dave-M0MYA really wished he could actually type a "colon" instead of a "semi-colon"
[15:39] <jonsowman> hehe
[15:39] <Randomskk> we should really write some top notch reliable code for this
[15:40] <jonsowman> Randomskk: I know
[15:40] <jonsowman> for all we know, ferret2 now works completely
[15:40] <Dave-M0MYA> I'd noticed - you seem quite cagey in fact! I'll give it the best bench testing I can
[15:40] <jonsowman> hehe
[15:40] <fsphil> anyone have a recent dial frequency?
[15:42] <NigeySWales> am i right in assuming the freq drift is thermally induced?
[15:42] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: yes
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[15:42] <jonsowman> fsphil: hopefully RocketBoy will appear with one soon
[15:42] <NigeySWales> so with some heating, less to none, or just less?
[15:43] <jonsowman> it is only a function of temperature change
[15:43] <jonsowman> so if you can maintain the crystal at constant temperature then you can reasonably expect no drift
[15:43] <NigeySWales> okies :D
[15:44] <jgrahamc> Figure I ought to say "Hello" here as I'm in the UK and working on a HAB project.
[15:45] <fsphil> someone else measured the temperature, and then made the adjustment in software. can't remember which flight now
[15:45] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: welcome to #highaltitude
[15:45] <fsphil> hiya jgrahamc
[15:45] <jonsowman> fsphil: it's roughly 1kHz per degree C
[15:45] <jgrahamc> Thanks. I've hung out here a few times, but never really introduced my project.
[15:45] <jgrahamc> http://blog.jgc.org/search/label/gaga
[15:46] <fsphil> ooh so it's fairly predictable?
[15:46] <jgrahamc> Hope to launch in the spring. Only get a few hours every couple of weeks to work on it.
[15:46] <Dave-M0MYA> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4722632458/in/set-72157624203062811/ <--- Same setup here: FT-817 and a Slik DL-3 Tripod!
[15:46] <russss> oh, hi jgrahamc. I have your book! </fanboy>
[15:46] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: looks excellent!
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[15:47] <jonsowman> fsphil: to a rough approximation
[15:47] <jgrahamc> Happy to have fans :-)
[15:47] <jonsowman> brb need a cup of tea
[15:49] <jgrahamc> I haven't been following James' flight. Anyone know where it is right now?
[15:50] <jonsowman> the one in the air is Steve's (RocketBoy)
[15:50] <jgrahamc> Oh. OK. For some reason I thought James Coxon was launching.
[15:51] <jonsowman> he is on saturday
[15:51] <jonsowman> weather permitting
[15:51] <jgrahamc> Right. Read those tweets too fast.
[15:51] <LazyLeopard> Havn't heard a peep out of the CW beacon.
[15:53] <fsphil> nothing here either
[15:56] <WillDuckworth> jgrahamc, blog looks good
[15:56] <jgrahamc> Thanks. Trying to write up as much as I can about what I'm doing as a thank you to all the people whose blogs/sites I've read for inspiration.
[15:56] <fsphil> possible faint carrier -- seems to be beeping
[15:56] <fsphil> but it sounds too steady
[15:56] <Dave-M0MYA> nothing here
[15:56] <fsphil> does this have the ntx2 problem where it drifts for the first few seconds?
[15:57] <LazyLeopard> ...and Twitter is "over capacity" at present. ;)
[15:57] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: What frequency?
[15:57] <fsphil> 433.987.5 dial + 780 hz on fldigi
[15:58] <jonsowman> fsphil: it didnt seem to
[15:58] <jonsowman> freq sounds about right
[15:58] <fsphil> it's not drifting at all though
[15:58] <fsphil> but I'm sure I can hear a beep
[15:59] <fsphil> but nothing that resembles morse
[15:59] <Dave-M0MYA> nothing here on that freq
[15:59] <LazyLeopard> nor here
[15:59] <fsphil> probably just local
[15:59] <jonsowman> it's several "blip-blip" noises then a CW ident followed by 4-5secs of carrier
[15:59] <Dave-M0MYA> what setup are you using fsphil and LazyLeopard?
[16:00] Action: fsphil has an FT-817nd + vertical antenna on the roof
[16:00] <LazyLeopard> 70cms 10-element yagi vertically polarised into an FT-817ND
[16:00] <LazyLeopard> set to USB / CW/ DIG as takes my fancy.
[16:00] <jonsowman> would have helped hugely if griffonbot had relayed my tweets during launch
[16:00] <jonsowman> oh well
[16:01] <LazyLeopard> ...been hunting around for signals but finding only static
[16:01] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0af2577fe7b1e4a6cd3b04966409de5b30813736
[16:01] <jonsowman> rough flight path
[16:01] <LazyLeopard> Twitter is bitching about being "over capacity" at the moment.
[16:02] <Dave-M0MYA> good stuff gents
[16:02] Action: Dave-M0MYA is using a 13 ele quagi into an FT-817 in USB mode
[16:03] <fsphil> that's very odd -- you guys should definitely be hearing it now
[16:03] <fsphil> unless it's burst already
[16:03] <Dave-M0MYA> :s
[16:03] <GW8RAK> jonsowman, hi, just noticed your post.Yes please. Any contributions to the current CRC studies would be much appreciated.
[16:03] <jgrahamc> What are you trying to do with CRC?
[16:03] <jonsowman> we launches pretty much dead on 1430
[16:04] <jonsowman> s/launches/launched
[16:04] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: https://github.com/mattbrejza/APEX/blob/master/Program/example-code/crc16.bas
[16:05] <LazyLeopard> Anyone receiving the beacon?
[16:05] <jonsowman> so it's probably getting near burst if not already
[16:05] <Randomskk> probably not enough time to solder up a patch cable? >_>
[16:05] <jonsowman> speed soldering!
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[16:07] <GW8RAK> jonsowman, thanks for the link. I've been looking at that code, but there are a couple of bits I don't understand.
[16:07] <jonsowman> Matt_soton is the person to ask :)
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> oh yeah
[16:07] <GW8RAK> I'm going to have a final look this evening and then will contact Matt.
[16:07] <fsphil> just noise here
[16:07] <jonsowman> OK, no problems :) hope it helps
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> st are sending me lsm303dlh samples for free XD
[16:08] <GW8RAK> jgrahamc - just trying to get the CRC bit of code sorted for a Picaxe flight controller.
[16:08] <fsphil> and those steady carriers - definitely not the payload, too stable
[16:08] <GW8RAK> Have got various samples of code, but want to understand them, rather than just copying.
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[16:10] <jgrahamc> In BASIC. Hmm, not really my area of expertise.
[16:10] <Dave-M0MYA> altered beam heading a little to the south and a little higher in elev and had a flick around the VFO but still nothing
[16:11] <jonsowman> interesting that nobody can hear it
[16:11] <jonsowman> it's probably burst
[16:12] <GW8RAK> In BASIC. Not my area of expertise either :-)
[16:13] <fsphil> drifting carrier
[16:13] <LazyLeopard> Nearest thing to a signal I've heard's round 433.975.5
[16:13] <jgrahamc> But that code doesn't look close to CRC16. Whereas the lookup table/
[16:13] <Dave-M0MYA> fsphil: can you usually pick up flights out of Cambridge on your vertical?
[16:13] <fsphil> I've had pretty good luck on a few Dave-M0MYA
[16:14] <Dave-M0MYA> and here was me worrying if 13 elements would be enough!
[16:14] <jonsowman> fsphil: you going to be around to track james' on saturday?
[16:14] <fsphil> 433.994 + 1364hz
[16:14] <fsphil> looks a bit more promising
[16:14] <fsphil> drifting all over the place, but I can't hear it -- only see it on the waterfall
[16:14] <fsphil> jonsowman: should be yea
[16:14] <jonsowman> cool
[16:15] <GW8RAK> jgrahamc - this is part of the problem. There seems to be a number of ways of crc'ing, some have a table some don't. I'm trying to understand why.
[16:15] <fsphil> yea I'm pretty sure this is a hab signal
[16:15] <Randomskk> crc can be very confusing
[16:15] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: dl-fldigi expects CRC16_CCITT
[16:15] <jgrahamc> Well, the question is... what do you need CRC16 for? You are reading from something that gives you a CRC?
[16:16] <jgrahamc> Ah, well that's the really simple one.
[16:16] <GW8RAK> What does the CCITT mean? I have code for CRC16. Does it use a different polynomial?
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[16:17] <jgrahamc> International Telegraph and Telephone Consultative Committee (CCITT), (from the French name "Comité Consultatif International Téléphonique et Télégraphique")
[16:17] <jgrahamc> X^16 + X^12 + X^5 + 1
[16:17] <jgrahamc> CCITT is now ITU
[16:17] <Randomskk> but CCITT is also a type of polynomial
[16:18] <Randomskk> and is I believe what we use. lemme check
[16:18] <GW8RAK> Okay, so it is just the "standard" equation.
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[16:19] <g8khw-iPhone> Its still going on 433.970
[16:19] <Randomskk> http://crcmod.sourceforge.net/crcmod.predefined.html#predefined-crc-algorithms
[16:19] <Randomskk> from that, we use crc-ccitt-false
[16:19] <Randomskk> jonsowman: what compass direction is it from here?
[16:20] <g8khw-iPhone> SE from caambridge
[16:21] <Randomskk> my room is what, easterly facing
[16:21] <Randomskk> so out my window I guess
[16:21] <jonsowman> Randomskk: SE
[16:23] <jonsowman> Randomskk: hear it?
[16:23] <Randomskk> haven't made a patch. debating if I should do it quickly
[16:23] <jonsowman> okay
[16:23] Action: Dave-M0MYA is confused. my ears can hear a source of bleeping in the hadphones but my eyes can't see it on the waterfall. no ident heard yet either, only blips about every 5 seconds
[16:24] <g8khw-iPhone> 433.965
[16:24] <LazyLeopard> USB? LSB? CW?
[16:24] <g8khw-iPhone> Usb
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[16:25] <jonsowman> Randomskk: can I SIGKILL griffonbot?
[16:26] <jgrahamc> There was a tweet three minutes ago saying: "CW beacon now at dial frequency 433.970 MHz #cusf"
[16:26] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: that was me
[16:26] <jgrahamc> :-)
[16:26] <Randomskk> yes
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[16:28] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[16:28] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf
[16:28] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[16:28] <LazyLeopard> Not hearing it here.
[16:28] <griffonbot> 
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[16:28] <jonsowman> damn you screen.
[16:28] <fsphil> how strong is it g8khw-iPhone?
[16:29] <g8khw-iPhone> Wek but the more is still readablem
[16:30] <g8khw-iPhone> Weak 433.957
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[16:31] <g8khw-iPhone> Strongest cloae to horizon
[16:32] <LazyLeopard> Very odd. What does the signal sound like?
[16:33] <g8khw-iPhone> What time did we launch
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[16:33] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[16:33] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf
[16:33] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[16:33] <jonsowman> g8khw-iPhone: pretty much dead on 1430GMT
[16:33] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: griffonbot test #cusf [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/2398567419346945]
[16:34] <jonsowman> ffff.
[16:35] <g8khw-iPhone> Its Close to burst then
[16:35] <jonsowman> must be
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[16:38] <fsphil> why is there so much gadget noise on here today
[16:38] <g8khw-iPhone> Getting very faint - may hve burst alreasy
[16:38] <fsphil> probably on the way down
[16:39] <g8khw-iPhone> Its gone for me anyoneelse got it?
[16:40] <Dave-M0MYA> no a thing - what was your last dial req?
[16:40] <Dave-M0MYA> *nt
[16:40] <Dave-M0MYA> *frq - eh, typing
[16:40] <Dave-M0MYA> uhhh
[16:40] <jonsowman> hehe
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[16:42] <fsphil> nothing here ... closing the radio now, it's probably near the ground by now
[16:43] Action: DanielRichman slaps griffonbot
[16:43] <DanielRichman> shame it's breaking :-(
[16:43] <g8khw-iPhone> Yeah
[16:43] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: consistently :(
[16:43] Action: LazyLeopard is puzzled that he could hear nothing...
[16:43] <DanielRichman> :X
[16:44] <DanielRichman> don'tblamemeIjustusedalibrarytodothetwitterbit
[16:44] <jonsowman> hehe
[16:44] <jonsowman> I don't know why it's dying
[16:44] Action: Dave-M0MYA is puzzled also
[16:44] <jonsowman> it was working fine for months
[16:44] <Randomskk> was it my python twitter stuff? >_>
[16:45] g8khw-iPhone (~RocketBoy@ left irc: Quit: Bye chaps
[16:46] Action: Dave-M0MYA became very confused when he heard the sound of C coming from the 2E0BTRinhabited shack upstairs =)
[16:46] <Dave-M0MYA> *CW
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[16:51] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
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[17:04] <fsphil> anyone know what kind of antenna was used on todays flight?
[17:04] <jonsowman> 1/4wave whip afaik
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[17:38] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: You were using a plain vanilla vertical this afternoon?
[17:38] <fsphil> it's a dual band vertical, does 2m and 70cm
[17:39] <LazyLeopard> I'm beginning to suspect my yagi was pointed a bit too far North. I should have tried the tri-band vertical...
[17:40] <fsphil> I didn't receive anything strong enough to be sure it was the payload unfortunately
[17:44] <LazyLeopard> I might have heard it, possibly, but not knowing what the beacon was supposed to sound like, I couldn't say for sure...
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[18:02] <NigeySWales> dont suppose anyone has 1 of these lying around? they seem murder to get hold of :/ http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.aspx?series=CLP-1xx-02-x-xx-xx
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> ...
[18:03] Action: SpeedEvil ponders
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> I think that's the pitch of CF.
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> you could gut an old CF card
[18:04] <NigeySWales> oh, that might be possible
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[18:13] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Just emailed the next article to N&V. You will learn to make a new, very affordable, flight computer. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/2423504410509312]
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[18:23] <NigeySWales> hi natrium42
[18:33] <Dave-M0MYA> I'm waiting for mine to arrive from Sparkfun in the US - seemed the easiest way of getting them. Farnell do a range of 1.27mm pitch connectors, but all of them are out of stock
[18:33] <russss> wtf, when did Scaled Composites get bought by Grumman
[18:33] <russss> 2007 apparently
[18:33] <Dave-M0MYA> Sorry NigeySWales, that last message was for you
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[18:34] <NigeySWales> ahh cheers dave im finding their extremely hard to source
[18:35] <Dave-M0MYA> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=170
[18:35] <NigeySWales> i did see the 1's on sparkfun but i cant justify paying paying $11 for shipping a $1 part
[18:35] <NigeySWales> -paying
[18:37] <Dave-M0MYA> I don't think the shipping was that much, though TBH I can't remember. I know I ordered a couple of TTL <--> RS232 logic level shifter at the same time time to smooth out the shipping cost (and because they are cheap and useful)
[18:37] <Dave-M0MYA> should be here in the next couple of days I'd think
[18:37] <Dave-M0MYA> you using the lassen iQ?
[18:37] <NigeySWales> yups
[18:37] <Dave-M0MYA> ditto
[18:37] <NigeySWales> whatever you do make sure youre using a 3.3v source lol
[18:38] <NigeySWales> unlike my arduino thats 5v and causing me a headache
[18:38] <Dave-M0MYA> as in interfacing your 5v arduino to your 3.3v gps?
[18:38] <NigeySWales> yups
[18:38] <NigeySWales> got to use a regulator
[18:39] <NigeySWales> <-- electronics newbie lol
[18:39] <Dave-M0MYA> there are lots of schematics out there for doing it, if I was going to build from scratch I'd probably use MOSFETS. As is, I just got a couple of these: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8745
[18:40] <NigeySWales> logic level converters
[18:40] <Dave-M0MYA> you could order them with your connector ;)
[18:40] <NigeySWales> juxta told me they'd be no good
[18:40] <Dave-M0MYA> you will still need to use regulators to feed the convertor
[18:40] <Dave-M0MYA> why so?
[18:40] <NigeySWales> cant remember, just recommended the regulators and resistor route
[18:40] <GW8RAK> Do you need to alter the signal levels of your GPS to Arduino?
[18:41] <NigeySWales> got to drop 5v to 3.3
[18:41] <GW8RAK> The Arduino may work with 3.3V signal levels. The power supply is another matter.
[18:41] <NigeySWales> yups, all fun, all a big learning curve
[18:42] <Dave-M0MYA> yes indeedy
[18:42] <GW8RAK> Have a common feed of 9V and use a low current version of a 7805 regulator to give you the 5 V and there are 3.3V equivalents as well.
[18:42] <NigeySWales> i did plan on using jcoxons pcb that he's sending, thought itd be fairly straight forward lol
[18:42] <GW8RAK> Very simple to do. Just ensure you have enough voltage overhead to keep the regulators working.
[18:43] <Dave-M0MYA> GW8RAK, thats fine for power, but what about the difference in logic levels?
[18:43] <NigeySWales> will do, cheers GW8RAK
[18:43] <GW8RAK> There may not be a problem. It's a case of suck it and see.
[18:43] <Dave-M0MYA> do you not think poking 5V out of the arduino into the GPS may hurt the GPS?
[18:43] <NigeySWales> itll blow it
[18:44] <GW8RAK> My Picaxe likes to see 5V signal levels, but is happy down to 2V
[18:44] <NigeySWales> apparently the lassens are not very tolerant
[18:45] <Dave-M0MYA> of course, if the data is only going one way, i.e. GPS ---> arduino, it may not be an issue
[18:45] <GW8RAK> The actual signal level out of the arduino may not be at 5V. But if it is, I think a MAX232 chip will shift the voltages.
[18:45] <Dave-M0MYA> apparantly arduinos are happy with a TTL level logic 1
[18:45] <Dave-M0MYA> a MAX232 is a way to go
[18:45] <GW8RAK> I use them to shift transceiver signal levels to RS232.
[18:46] <Dave-M0MYA> hah! I was just about to say.... To talk to my TTL level radios I use on of these: http://www.botkin.org/dale/yaesu_if.htm
[18:46] <Dave-M0MYA> so simple
[18:46] <Dave-M0MYA> boils down to this:
[18:46] <Dave-M0MYA> http://www.botkin.org/dale/rs232_interface.htm
[18:47] <Dave-M0MYA> which is used for programming PICs
[18:47] <Dave-M0MYA> somehow, I just don't want to trust my teeny-tiny GPS module to it! :/
[18:47] <GW8RAK> Do you actually send anything to the GPS?
[18:48] <Dave-M0MYA> I don't suppose I do :)
[18:48] <GW8RAK> Mine is purely output
[18:48] <Dave-M0MYA> at least, not with the arduino
[18:48] <NigeySWales> hmm anyone used 1 of these .. Second Hand DR-635E Alinco 2m/70cm FM Dual Band Mobile T ?
[18:48] <Dave-M0MYA> I have an arduino MEGA however, which has 3 TTL level I/Os on it
[18:49] <NigeySWales> snap dave
[18:50] <Dave-M0MYA> ahh, looks like we have been going down a similar path NigeySWales. I have not used that radio, but it bear in mind it doesn't have a BFO (i.e. no cw/ssb/rtty) so no good for HAB work
[18:50] <NigeySWales> ahh oki, just looking what else is out there for hab'ing
[18:51] <GW8RAK> It won't work. There's no SSB.
[18:51] <NigeySWales> so i need ssb aswell as 70cm .. their the 2 main points?
[18:51] <Dave-M0MYA> yup
[18:51] <GW8RAK> There's not a lot. The older 790 and other portable multimodes. Don't forget that some scanners are multimode and will receive SSB.
[18:52] <NigeySWales> i saw some kenwood scanners...
[18:52] <GW8RAK> Which could be useful if some people try 860MHz or my ideas around 173MHz. T
[18:52] <GW8RAK> The FT817 won't cover either of those frequencies.
[18:52] <NigeySWales> and tnx to dave got my eye on a 790 on ebay but 4 days left
[18:53] <NigeySWales> are we tied to just a few frequencies then for hab'ing because of licensing.. ?
[18:53] <Dave-M0MYA> yup
[18:53] <NigeySWales> oh boo :(
[18:54] <Dave-M0MYA> yeah, its a bit rubbish
[18:54] <GW8RAK> I got rid of a good 790 to fund an 817, but the 817 has blown up, literally. The power input wiring went bang so it's probably a junker.
[18:54] <jonsowman> :o
[18:54] <Dave-M0MYA> erk, all on its own?
[18:54] <NigeySWales> :o now i feel even less happy about buying 1 of them for 350quid lol
[18:54] <GW8RAK> At power on. It was the second time it had gone pop!
[18:54] <GW8RAK> Although not many other people have reported it.
[18:54] <NigeySWales> ok, im def not buying 1 now lmao!
[18:55] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: did you contact yaesu?
[18:55] <GW8RAK> So if I can't use the Air cadets 897, I can use my FT716.
[18:55] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: they're usually fine
[18:55] <jonsowman> don't let it put you off buying one
[18:55] <Dave-M0MYA> I've had mine about 3 years and its always been good (save for the odd minor firmware glitch) A lot of folk I know take them up mountains every weekend and they're fine - they can by and large be trusted
[18:55] <NigeySWales> well, im gonna go for second hand either way, hope to get that 790
[18:56] <GW8RAK> The first time it went, I sent it to Yaesu and they sent it back after repair without all functions working. I sent it back to them and they charged me again to open it up.
[18:56] <Dave-M0MYA> I have an old '290 here - older than I am, and its great =)
[18:56] <jonsowman> oh dear
[18:56] <NigeySWales> old is sometimes good!
[18:57] <GW8RAK> I don't think it is repairable. The track has burnt out and one of the components have blown right through the board.
[18:57] <GW8RAK> But it was a loud bang.
[18:57] <GW8RAK> And before anyone asks, it was 12V input.
[18:58] <Dave-M0MYA> and the right polarity? ;-)
[18:59] <GW8RAK> All my power supplies are keyed, so can't cross connect.
[18:59] <NigeySWales> dam bet that was 1 heck of a bang
[19:00] <GW8RAK> I thought to myself "oh bother, that sounds expensive"
[19:00] <GW8RAK> Or something like that.
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[19:01] <NigeySWales> id have cried, literally
[19:01] <GW8RAK> After all these years, I'm quite used to things going bang.
[19:01] <NigeySWales> oh me to, but more pc power supplies than recievers
[19:02] <GW8RAK> But since then, I've actually been quite lucky and haven't had any accidents.
[19:02] <NigeySWales> had a capacitor blow out the side of the psu case once, a nice orange fireball!
[19:02] <fsphil> I'd cry if I heard a bang from my ft817
[19:03] <GW8RAK> I was asking about CRC code this. Can anyone explain what Polynomial = $1021 means? It presumably refers to the algorithm, but is there a standard list of what's what?
[19:03] <NigeySWales> as i dont know much about radios, im assuming yaseu are the top end maker of this stuff?
[19:04] <fsphil> them and icom seem to be the most popular
[19:04] <GW8RAK> Every manufacturer claims to be the best. Yaesu amateur radios always sound quite lively, while Icom are a bit quieter but work well.
[19:04] <NigeySWales> havent seen many icoms about second hand, mainly the 817;'s
[19:05] <jonsowman> they appear occasionally
[19:05] <GW8RAK> Yaesu have been the major manufacturer of multimodes for a number of years.
[19:05] <NigeySWales> ah i see
[19:05] <jonsowman> there was an IC-7000 in the radioworld used eqpt list for a while
[19:05] <jonsowman> I was tempted
[19:06] <GW8RAK> It wasn't until the computerised rig revolution of the mid 90's that other manufacturers caught up.
[19:06] <NigeySWales> i just found a used kenwood th-f7e on there
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[19:09] <GW8RAK> My visitors are just about to arrive. Here to talk about cadet radio and then a HAB project. Another one for North Wales.
[19:10] <NigeySWales> great, rock on the welsh :D
[19:10] <Dave-M0MYA> :D
[19:10] Action: Dave-M0MYA has just migrated back East of the border =)
[19:10] <NigeySWales> :o
[19:12] <GW8RAK> Just to make sure that my squadron gets aloft before theirs.
[19:12] <GW8RAK> just got to....
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[19:13] <NigeySWales> air cadets ?
[19:13] <GW8RAK> Yes.
[19:13] <NigeySWales> ah my nephews in air cadets down here in cardiff, loves it
[19:13] <GW8RAK> It does take a lot my time.
[19:14] <GW8RAK> But it gives access to lots of other frequenices and quite a bit of freedom.
[19:14] <NigeySWales> cant go wrong
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[19:21] <NigeySWales> hi RocketBoy
[19:22] <Dave-M0MYA> GW8RAK, does that include 5MHz, or is that a "I can neither confirm nor deny" kind of question? :)
[19:22] <RocketBoy> hi NigeySWales
[19:22] <NigeySWales> so a successful mission RocketBoy ?
[19:22] <GW8RAK> We have a quite a few around 5MHz. But now I'll have to kill you :-)
[19:22] <NigeySWales> lmao
[19:23] <RocketBoy> NigeySWales: absolutely - exactly to plan
[19:23] <GW8RAK> Many of the frequencies are listed on the web.
[19:23] <GW8RAK> Not difficult to find.
[19:23] <NigeySWales> awsome :D any idea where it splashed down ?
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[19:25] <RocketBoy> looks like the flight time was exactly on the nail - launched 14;30 last heard 16:40 - the flight time was predicted to be 2:19 mins
[19:25] <Dave-M0MYA> GW8RAK, good stuff. I have a 5MHz NoV - I use it a lot while activating SOTA summits for intra-uk NVIS working, I sometimes hear cadet stations on there (but sadly have yet to work one)
[19:26] <RocketBoy> it was the launch technique that we were testing
[19:26] <NigeySWales> RocketBoy, amazing stuff, congrats
[19:26] <NigeySWales> ah hence the lack of gps?
[19:26] <jonsowman> brb all
[19:26] <RocketBoy> I was mainly using the tracker to ensure it was still in the air
[19:26] <GW8RAK> It's something which has never really taken off. We have plenty of HF gear, but no room here to put up aerials.
[19:27] <RocketBoy> hi jonsowman - many thanks for the help today
[19:28] <GW8RAK> So for a competition at the end of the month I'm hoping to run remote radio from down here back to home.
[19:28] <GW8RAK> Plenty of room for big aerials.
[19:28] <GW8RAK> Full size top band dipole.
[19:28] <Dave-M0MYA> thats a shame GW8RAK, I think that there are few sights as inspiring in radio as a nice, big inverted V =)
[19:28] <NigeySWales> sounds good GW8RAK :D
[19:29] <fsphil> yikes.. that's got to be large
[19:30] <NigeySWales> the words bloody huge spring to mind
[19:30] <GW8RAK> It's about 90m at present, but over Christmas, I want to extend it to 130m.
[19:30] <GW8RAK> As an off centre fed doublet.
[19:31] <GW8RAK> Good for NVIS, but not so good for DX.
[19:31] <NigeySWales> :o
[19:32] <fsphil> I'm looking at hf verticals at the moment, because of the limited space
[19:33] <fsphil> though they're a bit pricey.. might try making one from bits
[19:33] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: Giving a talk to Bracknell amateur radio club on our high altitude balloon tonight at 8pm #alienhab #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/2443664135557121]
[19:35] Action: Dave-M0MYA does not think he can get to Bracknell in 25 mins :)
[19:36] <LazyLeopard> Dave-M0MYA: Aye, as a lowly M6 I sometimes listen in to the 5Meg SOTA calls; often much easier to hear than the stuff on 80 and 40...
[19:36] <GW8RAK> 5MHz can be very quiet during the day, but the winter evenings are really useless.
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[19:39] <LazyLeopard> RocketBoy: What did today's beacon sound like? For some reason or other I never positively identified its signal.
[19:41] <RocketBoy> it mostly goes bleep bleep (morse I) about every 4 seconds - then about 10 secs of carrier about every min - followed by a morse identifier - then the bloops again
[19:41] <RocketBoy> bleeps again
[19:42] <LazyLeopard> Ok. Definitely did not hear it today, then.
[19:42] <LazyLeopard> Thanks.
[19:42] <LazyLeopard> Not quite sure why. Was it much lower power than the usual RTTY?
[19:42] <RocketBoy> I tracked it all the way to the grounf
[19:43] <RocketBoy> its was probably less power than usual
[19:43] <LazyLeopard> Vertical polarisation?
[19:43] <RocketBoy> yep
[19:45] <Dave-M0MYA> LazyLeopard, when I was at uni I found 5MHz was the only NVIS band I could hear activators on - a somewhat lower noise floor than on 3.5 or 7 MHz
[19:46] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... I must have done something daft like point the yagi in the wrong direction. I was getting a wide band repetitive beep with a cycle time of around four or five seconds from some local source.
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[19:46] <fsphil> yea I think those carriers I saw where local too
[19:47] <LazyLeopard> ...which had peaks about 2kHz apart and spread ove 433.930 to 434.100 at least, which probably didn't help.
[19:49] <LazyLeopard> Dave-M0MYA: Yeah, Colin G8TMV said much the same; want to qualify a summit quickly here? Use 5MHz.
[19:49] <Dave-M0MYA> haha! When its good, its very good
[19:50] <LazyLeopard> Having struggled to even hear someone trying to qualify a summit when they only had 80 metres to play with, and it was having a seriously off day...
[19:51] <Dave-M0MYA> it can be more susceptible to D-layer absorbtion. But with the winter coming, chasing on 80m should get easier
[19:51] <LazyLeopard> Mind, my last activation attempt got blown away (or over) before I'd even hit TX.
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[19:51] <Dave-M0MYA> ahh, unlucky - I had to jettison a HF activation recently and use 2m SSB
[19:55] <LazyLeopard> Looking at recent spots, I think I need to work on the CW...
[19:57] <LazyLeopard> That, and get through Intermediate and Advanced...
[19:57] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[20:01] <Dave-M0MYA> CW is certainly where it is at in SOTA atm. Tho, I'm not a morse man and I still find enough chasers when I'm out
[20:01] <Dave-M0MYA> 5MHz does account for a lot of them mind
[20:01] <Dave-M0MYA> it was one of the primary reasons I went for the M0
[20:04] <LazyLeopard> Main reason I wand to get to M0 is to have the chance to operate overseas.
[20:08] <RocketBoy> BBL
[20:09] Nick change: RocketBoy -> RocketBoy|Away
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[20:17] <Dave-M0MYA> LL: Yes, that was another reason for me. I spent the past few months working in the mountains in S. France - I did a couple of SOTA summits there and just about managed to work my Dad during a couple of his activations for summit-to-summits =)
[20:18] <Dave-M0MYA> 5W SSB both ways into simple wire dipoles =) quite proud of that actually :D
[20:20] <fsphil> nice
[20:23] <LazyLeopard> All my chases so far have been 5W SSB ('cos until last Sunday only had an FT-817...). I think I've caught 13 summit activations, and successfully activated exactly one summit so far.
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[20:24] <fsphil> what's the idea behind that? just making contacts to/from the peak?
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[20:25] <LazyLeopard> Yep. www.sota.org.uk It's an excuse to go out on the hills. ;)
[20:27] <Dave-M0MYA> LazyLeopard, good on you. I am almost entirely QRP too. Which hill did you do?
[20:29] <Dave-M0MYA> fsphil, its an award scheme (though personally, I don't claim the awards! I just like using radios in the hills). There's quite a lot of scope to do as you will within it, but the basic premise is you have activators (on hills) and chasers (usually in the warm and dry). Its good if you like radio and being outdoors (or talking to people who are outdoors)
[20:29] <LazyLeopard> The nearest to home, G/SE-005 Botley Hill near Oxted.
[20:30] <fsphil> sounds pretty cool, I'm up our local hill a fair bit
[20:30] <fsphil> though maybe not so much in this weather :)
[20:31] <Dave-M0MYA> fsphil, maybe you should take it up - there aint nearly enough activators on the emerald isle
[20:31] <Dave-M0MYA> a handful of chasers tho
[20:31] <Dave-M0MYA> always nice to work them
[20:31] <fsphil> I'll have to cook up some kind of hf antenna
[20:32] <Dave-M0MYA> just a bit of wire, thats all. I have mine set up as a linked dipole so I can use several bands
[20:32] <LazyLeopard> There's a fair bit of definition buried in the rules which means qualifying summits can be a fair way apart. Plenty in your part of the country, though, and plenty more south of the border.
[20:34] <LazyLeopard> Even a few that have never been activated...
[20:34] <Dave-M0MYA> LazyLeopard, can't say I've had the pleasure of that one - yet to get out to SE. You are a bit unlucky with your summit distribution
[20:34] <LazyLeopard> Not as unlucky as the folks out Cambridge way, though. ;)
[20:35] <Dave-M0MYA> quite right - EA is my idea of a nightmare =)
[20:35] <Elwell> oooh lots of empties in France/Massif-Central. must work on getting licence
[20:37] <fsphil> ooh our local hill has been activated twice
[20:37] <jonsowman> hi all
[20:37] <NigeySWales> hi jon
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[20:38] <NigeySWales>
[20:38] <NigeySWales> on ebay .. WTH?!
[20:39] <jonsowman> there are any number of weird things on ebay
[20:39] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Who by? M*EYP?
[20:39] <NigeySWales> jonsowman, can say that again lol
[20:40] <fsphil> GI0HIK/P this year, and GI0RQK/P in 2003
[20:41] <Dave-M0MYA> Elwell, I did two there fairly recently! You nearby to there?
[20:42] <Elwell> Dave-M0MYA: Clermont Ferrand
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[20:42] <NigeySWales> wow ... BBC Micro computer Model B ..
[20:42] <Dave-M0MYA> wow, fancy that!
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[20:53] <fsphil> just looking at the winter safety advice for sota --- they mention "cut toenails" but don't explain that one
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[21:32] <eroomde> I'm incapable of watching the apprentice
[21:32] <jonsowman> eroomde: haha, why?
[21:32] <eroomde> i can watch the office
[21:32] <eroomde> and I can watch abigails party
[21:32] <jonsowman> I'm the other way round personally, I can't stand the office
[21:32] <eroomde> but the apprentice makes me cringe on a whole new level
[21:33] <jonsowman> abigail's party is traumatising
[21:33] <eroomde> i find the apprentice more traumatising
[21:33] <jonsowman> really?
[21:33] <jonsowman> haha
[21:33] <jonsowman> fair enough
[21:34] <jonsowman> why is vim not listening to me :(
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[21:36] <jonsowman> eroomde: ferrettwo? meerkat? polecat?
[21:36] <jonsowman> <other small mammal>?
[21:36] <eroomde> eroomde: ferret2.0
[21:36] <eroomde> evolution wins
[21:36] <jonsowman> haha ok
[21:37] <eroomde> people on here already know ferret - it's the bit of source code everyone turns to who wants to do hab and ballooning
[21:37] <jonsowman> good point
[21:37] <russss> stoat
[21:38] <jonsowman> well ferret2.0 will be neater and more reliable and I won't be so terrified of people using it
[21:38] <russss> weasel
[21:38] <jonsowman> russss: doesn't quite have the same ring to it
[21:38] <jonsowman> :P
[21:38] <fsphil> habrat
[21:38] <jonsowman> haha
[21:38] <jonsowman> nice
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[21:49] <fsphil> eek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzGgG0KmvSg
[21:51] <russss> ouch
[21:52] <fsphil> bigger eek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7HSTPl6e-I
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[21:53] <russss> didn't know rain/snow could generate that much static
[21:55] <fsphil> nor did I -- I've heard of arcs being caused by local lightning
[22:00] <NigeySWales> that was just down to snow? :o
[22:00] <fsphil> to be fair, he didn't show outdoors. it could have been a blizzard
[22:01] <fsphil> I seen lightning during a snow storm once
[22:04] <NigeySWales> now that i've never seen, but it hardly snows here
[22:07] <Matt_soton> pong: GW8RAK
[22:08] <fsphil> nor do we -- or lightning, so it was a bit of a surprise
[22:08] <GW8RAK> Evening Matt_soton
[22:09] <Matt_soton> evening
[22:09] <Matt_soton> i believe i was wanted? :p
[22:09] <GW8RAK> I pinged you yesterday, but don't think I have today.
[22:09] <GW8RAK> Or did I mention you name in another post?
[22:10] <GW8RAK> But since you are on, I've been looking at your CRC code from APEX
[22:10] <Matt_soton> well jonsowman pinged me after u asked him something i think
[22:10] <GW8RAK> I can get it to produce a 5 digit number. Is that correct? What format, (Hex) does the tracking software need?
[22:11] <Matt_soton> hmm not sure
[22:11] <Matt_soton> just a moment
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[22:13] <griffonbot> @sbasuita: Think the #alienhab talk went down well at Bracknell radio club :) (On to the Reading club in ~2 weeks) #g4bra #g3ult #ukhas #arhab [http://twitter.com/sbasuita/status/2483994226589696]
[22:13] <Matt_soton> the crc function outputs a 16bit number and so 4 hex digits
[22:13] <Matt_soton> which is 5 digits when in decimal
[22:14] <GW8RAK> That is what I was expecting to get. Ah, and 5 digits in decimal. Perhaps I've got it working after all.
[22:14] <GW8RAK> Is there a decimal to hex conversion tool? (Probably a naive question, but I'll ask it anyway)
[22:17] <Matt_soton> u can use windows calculator in programmor mode
[22:17] <Matt_soton> or various online tools
[22:18] <Matt_soton> there are also online CRC calculators, but be careful, as different caluclators which seem to give the same thing give different results
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[22:18] <GW8RAK> That explains some of the confusion I've been having
[22:19] <Matt_soton> http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
[22:19] <Matt_soton> use the CRC-CCITT (0xFFFF) result
[22:20] <GW8RAK> Thanks Matt, much appreciated. I'll try it out and see if I get 4 hex digits.
[22:20] <Matt_soton> :)
[22:20] <GW8RAK> Been talking to astr2001uk about his balloon project tonight.
[22:23] <GW8RAK> Time to head home and test the crc code on my software. Hopefully it'll be working by midnight!
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[22:29] <Laurenceb> crystal filters are so confusing
[22:29] <Laurenceb> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00826a.pdf
[22:30] <Laurenceb> it a useful intro - i didnt realise the transistor phase squew was so significant
[22:30] <Laurenceb> guess thats why TCXOs are all self contained
[22:31] <Laurenceb> turns out for filtering perposes you get -~60ppm on the frequency
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Tunability?
[22:32] <eroomde> Randomskk: is this the one you got? http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html?osCsid=0515798907f14464f11c814624c09f43
[22:32] <Laurenceb> you can only tune a little
[22:32] <jonsowman> eroomde: yes
[22:32] <Laurenceb> if you reduce the external caos to zero you still have parasitics
[22:33] <Laurenceb> and in my sim for a filter i cant get a 77500hz crystal above 77497
[22:33] <Laurenceb> center
[22:33] <Laurenceb> maybe thats why digikey has 77503hz
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> sounds plausible
[22:34] <Laurenceb> that application note explains the theory
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> DSL is being stupidly slow again.
[22:34] <Laurenceb> for an oscillator you need something like 105degrees phase shft across the xtal n the real world
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> I need to chase them to fix it - which gets painful.
[22:34] <Laurenceb> so its operating "off resonance"
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[22:36] <Laurenceb> and ic component variability can cause that angle to differ a lot
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> so if you disconnect the leads from the crystal element, a 50.000MHz crystal won't actually be that frequency.
[22:36] <Laurenceb> thats one of the main reasons tcxos are all self contained
[22:36] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> I see.
[22:37] <Laurenceb> its to do with how fast the transistors are amongst many other things
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Lots of funky stuff is only integrated.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> The nicest laser drivers for example, are all bare die only.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> As they're meant to go inside the laser diode case.
[22:38] <Laurenceb> a frequency X crystal operates at that frequency with the specced load caps and the manufacturers factory test oscillator silicon
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Today I repaired a 1.8KW 30-60KHz oscillator.
[22:39] <Laurenceb> your silicon will be different and that could easily cause +-20ppm aiui
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> After the switch failed due to boiling over of rice.
[22:39] <Laurenceb> heh induction hob?
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:39] <Laurenceb> homemade?
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> naah
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> ebay
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> I also have a 'new' 4 ring hob from ebay
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> and am annoyed I can't source suitable ceramic.
[22:40] <NigeySWales> oh fun found an old am radio, can try the arduino broadcasting morse code now lol
[22:40] <Laurenceb> oh st are sending lsm303dlh samples
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> However, I can slice the broken glass hob into suitable shapes to cover the elements, and then waterproof that.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> So woo.
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> Interestingly the 4 ring hob is modular enough that you can actually make 2 2 ring hobs with just one saw-cut.
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> Including the PCB!
[22:41] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> It's two completely isolated hobs to ease connecting to 415v
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> err
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> whatever .de uses.
[22:42] <Laurenceb> st sent an apologetic email saying they were reorganising lsm303 production, hence the delay, but they now have samples to ship
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[22:42] <Laurenceb> 215?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> how did you apply
[22:42] <Laurenceb> just emailed them directly
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> naah - 3 phase is lots more common in germany for some reason
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> I need to poke them I guess.
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> I want one to jam in the phone.
[22:43] <Laurenceb> snad the top down
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:43] <Laurenceb> tho the gold bondwires are probably very close to the top
[22:43] <Laurenceb> to get it thinner
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Well...
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[22:44] <Laurenceb> *sand
[22:44] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:44] <Laurenceb> hi
[22:44] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> In practice - making a microSD compass is likely to be a right bitch.
[22:44] <Laurenceb> need spi to i2c
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> It may actually be easier just to open, and solder it (in place?) of the existing accel
[22:44] <jcoxon> so launch went well today
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: nope.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Can be used as GPIO.
[22:44] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: well - not for a standard card of course.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: :)
[22:45] <jonsowman> jcoxon: yep excellently
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> I missed it - was the intent to recover it?
[22:45] <jcoxon> oh that was a question rather then a statement
[22:45] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: no
[22:45] <jcoxon> ;-p
[22:45] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: launching sat?
[22:46] <eroomde> jcoxon: yo
[22:46] <eroomde> could you link be up with that boom and phasing harness?
[22:46] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, just running a few predictions
[22:46] <jcoxon> will know in 15mins
[22:47] <eroomde> ssh fail
[22:47] <jonsowman> jcoxon: was your only modification to the tinygps lib to enable satellite count?
[22:48] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i'm using the one on the wiki now
[22:48] <jcoxon> for fsa03
[22:48] <jcoxon> which allows us to poll the gps
[22:48] <jonsowman> on which wiki?
[22:49] <jcoxon> ukhas
[22:49] <jcoxon> search for fsa03
[22:49] <jonsowman> so is the one on your github out out date then?
[22:49] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[22:49] <jcoxon> it'll work
[22:49] <jonsowman> alright, thanks
[22:49] Action: SpeedEvil stabs.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> http://st.com/
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> Why the hell not just redirect.
[22:49] <jcoxon> eroomde, http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html?osCsid=735175d58bab8d41b0e2c9e5b9c1c110
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[22:51] <jcoxon> http://www.wsplc.co.uk/acatalog/Diamond_Yagis.html
[22:51] <eroomde> nice
[22:51] <eroomde> ta
[22:52] <eroomde> some serious power-rangers action
[22:52] <jcoxon> yeah
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[23:02] <NigeySWales> 999 1323kHz .. lol fun
[23:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CFoOFZ6ifc
[23:05] <Laurenceb> i dont get if it uses a laser or not
[23:05] <Laurenceb> looks like laser + diffraction grating
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[23:07] <NigeySWales> hmm yeah, or some kind of weird beam splitter
[23:07] <NigeySWales> looks eery though dont it
[23:08] <fsphil> the music helps lol
[23:08] <jcoxon> okay
[23:08] <jcoxon> launch is on
[23:08] <jcoxon> pretty mad flight path
[23:08] <jcoxon> going to need the help of the dutch hams
[23:08] <jonsowman> \o/
[23:08] <jonsowman> looking forward to this
[23:09] <jcoxon> 25km float - http://habhub.org/files/output12896586001289430470.kml
[23:09] <jcoxon> also ground conditions won't be as good as today
[23:09] <NigeySWales> hey jcoxon
[23:09] <jonsowman> ground conditions were pretty much perfect today
[23:09] <jonsowman> really easy launch
[23:10] <NigeySWales> dammit ubuntu and google earth not playing nice again, have you got the link to the online predictor jon ?
[23:10] <jcoxon> NigeySWales, use google maps
[23:10] <jcoxon> if you put that link into the search bar
[23:10] <jcoxon> it'll work
[23:10] <jcoxon> thats what i do
[23:10] <NigeySWales> oh, okies
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[23:12] <NigeySWales> impressive route
[23:13] <NigeySWales> hey juxta
[23:13] <juxta> morning NigeySWales
[23:13] <NigeySWales> jcoxon, how do you plan to get the payload back?
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[23:15] <jonsowman> jcoxon: does the wiki tinygps include sat number reporting
[23:16] <Elwell> jcoxon: you need someone in Hamburg to pick it up?
[23:16] <NigeySWales> wb GW8RAK
[23:17] <jcoxon> jonsowman, yes
[23:17] <jonsowman> jcoxon: thanks :)
[23:17] <jcoxon> Elwell, maybe...
[23:17] <jcoxon> NigeySWales, its not coming back
[23:17] <NigeySWales> oh
[23:17] <GW8RAK> Hi NigeySWales. Just trying to finish the code tonight.
[23:18] <NigeySWales> GW8RAK, ah your crc code, hope it works for you :D
[23:18] <GW8RAK> I think it was working earlier, but giving a decimal result rather than hex.
[23:18] <NigeySWales> oops
[23:18] <Elwell> jcoxon: I know a few people at DESY (SW of your landing area) - dunno where they live in the city tho
[23:19] <jcoxon> Elwell, to tell the truth it could land anywhere
[23:19] <jcoxon> depends on the float hight
[23:19] <jcoxon> height - we'll know more when in the air
[23:19] <juxta> jonsowman, you can use the one on the wiki to query a ublox module too
[23:19] <Elwell> ah - that's a prediction, sorry thought it was log
[23:20] <jonsowman> juxta: great, thanks
[23:20] <jonsowman> ferrettwo will have an FSA-03
[23:20] <juxta> :D
[23:22] <juxta> what did ferrett one have? something that didn't like being above 18km, right?
[23:22] <jonsowman> an EM-406a
[23:22] <jonsowman> 24km limit
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[23:24] <juxta> ah, righo
[23:25] <jonsowman> it was only built as a backup tracker for one flight
[23:25] <jonsowman> turns out its actually quite a useful thing to have around, and lots of people find the code useful
[23:25] <jonsowman> so Randomskk have decided to make a better version, in both hardware and software aspects
[23:25] <jonsowman> * Randomskk and I
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[23:26] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Balloon flight - 13/11/10 ~14:30 Long duration floating flight."
[23:28] <jcoxon> hmm sunset will be 16:14, so at altitude 17:14 so launch between 14:00 and 14:30
[23:28] <jonsowman> fine by me
[23:29] <juxta> hi jcoxon
[23:29] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlas Launch Sat 13/11/10 14:30 from Cambridge, long duration flight towards Netherlands/Denmark, txing on 434.075Mhz #arhab [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/2503172346089472]
[23:29] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[23:29] <jcoxon> those radios still aren't in the post
[23:29] <jcoxon> i'm really sorry
[23:30] <juxta> oh, haha
[23:30] <juxta> that's okay
[23:30] <juxta> I was going to ask how the testing of your crystal oven went
[23:30] <jcoxon> yeah went well yesterday
[23:30] <jcoxon> 1deg for 2hrs in a -15degC freezer
[23:30] <jcoxon> pretty stable
[23:31] <jcoxon> definitely enough for the AFC on dl-fldigi to cope
[23:31] <russss> hmm, I might try and get my antenna back up and the rig control working
[23:31] <russss> but I probably won't have time :P
[23:31] <russss> I'm out all saturday, and the evening, unfortunately
[23:31] <juxta> excellent
[23:32] <russss> going to see a particle accelerator.
[23:32] <russss> :P
[23:32] <jonsowman> jcoxon: have updated the Upcoming Launches page for you
[23:32] <juxta> do you shut down your GPS module to save power too jcoxon?
[23:32] <jcoxon> russss, there is sunday morning
[23:32] <jcoxon> this should fly long
[23:32] <jcoxon> though it'll be out of range
[23:33] <jcoxon> we'll need to use globaltuners i suspect
[23:33] <jcoxon> juxta, no, the radio i do
[23:33] <NigeySWales> russss, which one ?
[23:33] <russss> I have an 817
[23:33] <russss> oh wait, the particle accelerator
[23:34] <russss> Diamond Light Source in Oxfordshire
[23:34] <NigeySWales> nice! no inserting any lead ions now ok !
[23:34] <Elwell> ah. a wee one :-)
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[23:39] <NigeySWales> in 50 years we'll be saying that about LHC hehe
[23:41] <fsphil> Should have the HLHC by then
[23:41] <NigeySWales> :D
[23:42] <russss> SLHC actually, they're designing it already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Large_Hadron_Collider
[23:42] <jcoxon> have got a very well placed radio rx now in nothern holland
[23:42] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:42] <russss> and then VLHC
[23:42] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Hadron_Collider
[23:43] <fsphil> jcoxon, tim?
[23:43] <jcoxon> yup
[23:43] <fsphil> sweet
[23:43] <jcoxon> is 50miles north of amsterdam, near the islands
[23:44] <jcoxon> couldn't ask for a better place really
[23:44] <jcoxon> of course if the flight path holds...
[23:44] <fsphil> will be a late night for him
[23:45] <jcoxon> yeah
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[23:55] <jonsowman> night all
[23:55] <NigeySWales> nn jon
[00:00] --- Thu Nov 11 2010