highaltitude.log.20101108

[00:04] <Laurenceb> bah
[00:04] Action: Laurenceb is busy 1400 to 1600 tomorrow
[00:05] Action: SpeedEvil is awaiting delivery of a freezer tomorrow from 0800 to 2000. It has about 40m to go on my property. That is around a milimeter a second.
[00:07] <eroomde> NigeySWales: sorry clocked out
[00:07] <eroomde> you're quite right
[00:07] <NigeySWales> no probs, i think i found something about the other tx aswell, apparently i need to program the module to send extra sentences
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[00:08] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
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[00:20] <Laurenceb> nvm
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[00:20] <Laurenceb> was going to ask about dcf modules, but - http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_uk/~flN0YXRlPTE2NzI5NjA1NTI=?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=168432&no_brotkrumennavi=1&zhmmh_area_kz=LN
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[00:29] <juxta> hey NigeySWales, sorry, trying to do a bit of cleaning up here :)
[00:29] <juxta> if you extra sentences, you can program it to send them.. but the lassen iq's i've used have had the required sentences turned on by default
[00:29] <juxta> if you need* extra..
[00:30] <Laurenceb> theres some lassen iq code on the wiki
[00:30] <Laurenceb> cant really remember whats there.. worth loking nontheless
[00:31] <Laurenceb> night all
[00:31] <juxta> night Laurenceb
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[00:59] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CHR6d-IMU-6-axis-3x-Gyro-3x-Accel-w-Filtering-/130437514407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e5eae84a7
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[06:03] <Darkside> juxta: you there?
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[06:29] <juxta> hey Darkside
[06:29] <juxta> I'm here
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[07:26] <shenki> juxta: hello
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[07:41] <juxta> heya shenki
[07:42] <shenki> hows things?
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[07:45] <juxta> good good, just preparing for this weekend
[07:48] <shenki> you're doing a launch this weekend?
[07:50] <juxta> yeah, likely 2 launches
[07:52] <shenki> excellent. what will you be flying?
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[07:53] <juxta> one launch will be a stills camera
[07:54] <juxta> the other is 3 HD video cams
[07:54] <juxta> :)
[07:54] <shenki> nice!
[07:54] <shenki> fingers crossed they don't go for a swim this time around
[07:54] <shenki> are they the same type of camera you flew in horus8?
[07:55] <juxta> yep
[07:55] <juxta> I'm actually thinking I may need to re-think my charging circuit
[07:55] <juxta> I think they're a bit more power hungry than I had anticipated
[07:56] <shenki> any further theories on why it stopped recoding last time?
[07:56] <juxta> the offical word from gopro is memory card incompatibility
[07:56] <juxta> so will be doing lots more testing in the next few days
[07:57] <shenki> cool
[07:58] <shenki> Darkside and i will be sitting our licence tests the on the 29th, if things go to plan
[07:58] <shenki> so we'll be able to participate in other ways from there on in
[08:05] <NigeySWales> morning all
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[08:08] <juxta> shenki, excellent :)
[08:08] <juxta> morning NigeySWales
[08:09] <NigeySWales> moring juxta tnx for the lassen advice, i guess they must have changed something since the forum post about default sentences was made, if what i need is on by default seems i dont need to add anything else :D
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[08:12] <NigeySWales> wb Upu
[08:12] <jonsowman> morning everyone :)
[08:13] <NigeySWales> hey jon :)
[08:13] <Randomskk> morning
[08:13] <Randomskk> sigh, 9am lectures
[08:13] <jonsowman> mm I know
[08:13] <jonsowman> :(
[08:13] <Randomskk> still at least we get a launch out of it
[08:13] <jonsowman> true
[08:13] <Randomskk> wonder if we'll get back in time to track
[08:14] <Randomskk> can't df on the whip anyway though
[08:14] <jonsowman> yeah
[08:14] <jonsowman> we can listen to it though
[08:14] <Randomskk> we'll try after town I guess
[08:14] <jonsowman> yea
[08:14] <NigeySWales> rocketboy's launch is definately going ahead?
[08:14] <Randomskk> tried the ofcom site for your callsign yet?
[08:14] <jonsowman> will do
[08:14] <Randomskk> NigeySWales: yea, but with a simple morse-only payload and no gps
[08:14] <Randomskk> into the drink
[08:15] <jonsowman> though having said that
[08:15] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=65781c923ff5019b0a642bbe8097d863a281653a
[08:15] <NigeySWales> ouch
[08:15] <Randomskk> hmm
[08:15] <Randomskk> you know what, that's quite significantly not in the drink
[08:15] <jonsowman> I mean, I don't know the launch params
[08:15] <Randomskk> might be worth texting him before he drives down to say bring along the other payload in case, we can run a prediction right before launch
[08:15] <jonsowman> I'll text Steve
[08:15] <Randomskk> hivemind
[08:15] <jonsowman> hehe
[08:16] <NigeySWales> that looks very much like land...lol
[08:17] <jonsowman> well I've sent him a text - will see what he decides
[08:17] <juxta> shenki: it's not going to be cold in this payload, thats for sure
[08:17] <jonsowman> XABEN would definitely make for more interesting tracking
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[08:18] <NigeySWales> hm fiances new laptop just arrived for xmas, do i set it up now or let her do it xmas morning
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[08:18] <juxta> i've had to put a heatsink on the regulator that's charging the cameras, and even then I suspect that thermal shutdown is going to kick in
[08:19] <Randomskk> it gets pretty cold up there
[08:19] <Randomskk> but otoh the air gets quite thin
[08:19] <jonsowman> Randomskk: glad we're not doing the launch prep & filling in this weather
[08:19] <Randomskk> so thermal conductivity goes way down
[08:19] <Randomskk> jonsowman: indeed
[08:19] <Randomskk> though I wonder if he won't want a hand holding something
[08:19] <Randomskk> filling and launching as an entirely one man job can't be much fun
[08:20] <jonsowman> he's got a couple of people coming with him to see the launch afaik
[08:20] <Randomskk> ah okay
[08:20] <Randomskk> cool
[08:20] <Randomskk> well, cambridge tower is on my phone
[08:20] <Randomskk> "hi can we let go plox"
[08:20] <jonsowman> bring the NOV
[08:21] <juxta> yeah, it'll be nice and toasty by the end of this flight - there's about 20Wh of battery power in this payload that's going to be depleted
[08:21] <juxta> lots of heat!
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[08:27] <juxta> hmm,30Wh plus actually
[08:27] <Randomskk> blimey
[08:28] <Randomskk> though uhm
[08:28] <Randomskk> Wh doesn't make much sense
[08:28] <Randomskk> for battery power, anyway
[08:28] <jonsowman> Randomskk: launch postponed :(
[08:28] <SpeedEvil> ...
[08:28] <Randomskk> ..!
[08:28] <jonsowman> ground wind is too bad
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> How doesn't Wh make sense?
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> It's the standard way battery packs are measured for laptops fore
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> x
[08:29] <jonsowman> forecast 80mph ground winds in cambridge this afternoon
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Fucking windy here.
[08:29] <juxta> eek, that's a bit windy
[08:29] <Randomskk> hmm yea, fair enough
[08:29] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: exactly. not really balloon launching weather
[08:29] <Randomskk> I was thinking Ah and W for power but
[08:29] <Randomskk> no reason you can't use Wh
[08:30] <Randomskk> jonsowman: aww man
[08:30] <jonsowman> yeah
[08:30] <jonsowman> annoying
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> And I left a window slightly open, meaning the house has gotten down to 7C. Meh.
[08:30] <jonsowman> bloody weather.
[08:30] <Randomskk> better let chu porters and cambridge tower know. any idea when it's postponed to?
[08:30] <jonsowman> no
[08:30] <jonsowman> indefinitely
[08:30] <junderwood> 80 mph! That's hurricane force
[08:30] <jonsowman> for the sake of Chu, I will say saturday
[08:30] <junderwood> (do you mean 18?)
[08:30] <jonsowman> for james's
[08:31] <Randomskk> 80mph winds is crazy, what
[08:31] <jonsowman> junderwood: perhaps, I couldn't hear Steve on the phone very well
[08:31] <jonsowman> in any case, too high to launch
[08:31] <Randomskk> BBC says 18
[08:31] <junderwood> indeed
[08:31] <jonsowman> that would make more sense
[08:31] <jonsowman> 18mph then
[08:31] <Randomskk> and rainy too
[08:31] <jonsowman> very
[08:31] <jonsowman> weather is generally a bit crap really
[08:32] Action: Laurenceb unpacks his sdr experiment then
[08:32] <Randomskk> indeed
[08:32] <Randomskk> well that's unfortunate
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> How do the met-office launch?
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> Do they have some sort of structure?
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> Or do they just not launch in high winds.
[08:34] <Randomskk> I guess they have some sort of structure
[08:34] <Randomskk> the filling is automated, so it could take place indoors, then just let them go. in the middle of a field there's less to hit as well I guess
[08:34] <Randomskk> entirely guessing there though
[08:34] <SpeedEvil> FOIA it!
[08:34] <Laurenceb> http://liliputing.com/2010/10/toshiba-ac100-hacked-to-run-ubuntu-linux-video.html <- nice
[08:34] Action: SpeedEvil has been using FOIA a lot recently.
[08:35] <Laurenceb> wel if it was about £100 or less
[08:35] <Randomskk> they get touchy about FOIAing radiosonde stuff
[08:35] <Randomskk> due to not making it
[08:35] <Randomskk> the launch mech might be okay though
[08:35] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[08:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah. The reviews of that have been generally _utter_ shit.
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> 'Awesome hardware, shit software'
[08:36] <Laurenceb> hardware is nice yes
[08:36] <Laurenceb> needs to have the flash wiped and start again :D
[08:36] <Laurenceb> if they lowered the price a lot id buy it
[08:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon.sowman@gmail.com> "Re: Potential XABEN Launch - Monday 8th November"
[08:37] Action: SpeedEvil stabs.
[08:37] <shenki> juxta: what circuit and batteries are you using for the charger?
[08:37] <Laurenceb> http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_uk/~flN0YXRlPTE2NzI5NjA1NTI=?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=168432&no_brotkrumennavi=1&zhmmh_area_kz=LN
[08:37] <Laurenceb> ^ 77.5khz exactly :D
[08:38] <SpeedEvil> I have a toshiba 3110ct. It is 0.98Kg, 10" - 4:3 screen. Nice Mg/Al case. 8 hour battery life (after re-celling the battery with modern batteries)
[08:38] <SpeedEvil> Better than the ac100
[08:38] <SpeedEvil> It's just that the processor is PII/300 - and it's got no wifi and USB1.1
[08:39] Action: Laurenceb has a compaq armarda 1000
[08:40] <Laurenceb> from 1996 iirc, still running
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> ~2000 for the above
[08:41] <jonsowman> bbl
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Review/16204,toshiba-portege-3110ct.aspx
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> wave.
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[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: "Chris Foote (Spike)" <spike@tenbus.co.uk> "Re: Re: Potential XABEN Launch - Monday 8th November"
[08:43] <NigeySWales> Laurenceb, that toshiba is a smart looking bit of kit, shame they failed so bad with the android setup, but if it runs ubuntu i may grab one :D
[08:44] <juxta> shenki, just a linear regulator and some AA lithiums
[08:44] <juxta> voltage drop is ~1v
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[08:44] <juxta> back in a while, better go get the car ready while it's still light
[08:45] <shenki> ok
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> Also - I'd want a trackpoint on the ac100
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> :/
[08:47] <NigeySWales> fair point, friend of mine has 1 of those samsung galaxy tabs.. wasnt to keen on it, android just seemed sluggish
[08:55] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[08:59] <earthshine> Morning
[09:00] <NigeySWales> morning earthshine
[09:00] <earthshine> Hi
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[09:40] <Upu> morning hi NigeySWales :)
[09:40] <Upu> sorry about the delay in response had to go to the tip
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[10:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett <ukhas@chocky.demon.co.uk> "Re: Potential XABEN Launch - Monday 8th November"
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[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Earthshine Electronics <mikemcr68@googlemail.com> "Ideas for camera motion system please"
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[10:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham GW8RAK <graham.ogle@virgin.net> "Re: Ideas for camera motion system please"
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[10:32] <Dave-M0MYA> morning folks
[10:32] <Dave-M0MYA> any news on the launch today?
[10:33] <eroomde> not happening
[10:33] <Dave-M0MYA> :(
[10:33] <eroomde> weather fail
[10:34] <Dave-M0MYA> ah well, saves me wrestling with an antenna and a tripod I spose :)
[10:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Earthshine Electronics <mikemcr68@googlemail.com> "Re: Ideas for camera motion system please"
[10:39] Action: Laurenceb_ has acess to the top of a 16story building XD
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> but no ethernet up there :-/
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> do people use bnc connectors on yagis?
[10:41] <juxta> Laurenceb, Ido
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[10:42] <griffonbot> Received email: "mike@mmatthes.com" <mike@mmatthes.com> "Re: Ideas for camera motion system please"
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> guess its a case of whatever the ft817 uses
[10:43] <juxta> the ft817 has a BNC on the front I think
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> ah yes
[10:44] <Laurenceb_> thats good then
[10:44] <Dave-M0MYA> yup, bnc on the from, so-239 on the back
[10:44] <Dave-M0MYA> *front
[10:46] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: lots of the bigger ones use N-type connectors now
[10:46] <eroomde> we just used a converter
[10:46] <eroomde> useful to have a few around
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> ive stuck a bnc on my sdr
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> was just wondering if id be able to borrow a yagi next weekend
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> - im going to come down to cam
[10:47] <Gnea> ft817 is nice for qrp unless you've got an amp
[10:47] <Gnea> but if you've got a yagi, you should be set
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah i need to buy one
[10:48] <Gnea> I've been considering doing the same, but it will be awhile :)
[10:50] <Dave-M0MYA> you could build one, I've built a few of these with good results: http://www.fredspinner.com/W0FMS/CheapYagi/vjbcy.html
[10:50] <Dave-M0MYA> Laurenceb_: do youy have an sdr on 70cm?
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> He has a prototype.
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> He's threatening to make it into a USB stick usable by the masses.
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[10:52] <Dave-M0MYA> splendid!
[10:52] <Dave-M0MYA> thats a fine notion
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - substantially cheaper than a 'proper' radio too.
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> And can in principle do shiny stuff the radio can't.
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> atm ive got a prototype in a alu enclosure
[10:53] <Dave-M0MYA> hats off to you sir
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> if i did a usb stick itd have to lose dcf-77
[10:53] <Dave-M0MYA> your own design?
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> thanx :D
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> yes - with a little help from chipcon
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> its a chipcon cc1020 and an avr
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> theres some test registers you can use to reconstruct baseband
[10:54] <Dave-M0MYA> very nice
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> my alu enclosure prototype has been designed to fit a dcf77 receiver as well
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[10:55] <Laurenceb_> i intend to pll onto the carrier
[10:55] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> Dave-M0MYA: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[10:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk <upuaut@gmail.com> "Re: GPS/Balloon tracing help"
[10:57] <Laurenceb_> atm im working on a crystal filter design for dcf-77
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> crystal filters are insane - Q>100K
[10:58] <NigeySWales> Laurenceb, is that what i think it is? a home made slution to picking up the signal from a ntx2?
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> yes
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Isn't the Q ideally a little high for dcf77?
[10:59] <NigeySWales> ooo
[10:59] <Dave-M0MYA> dcf77, as in time signal?
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> yes
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: if i only want carrier...
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> need a trimpot to tune it, as the xtals from conrad are +-50ppm
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> *trimcap
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> last time i checked mouser were out of the eval board - we need to roll our own board with atmega8u2
[11:01] <NigeySWales> they have 2 on backorder :(
[11:02] <GW8RAK> Very minor question please. How do I ping someone on here?
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> name: comment
[11:02] <GW8RAK> Thanks
[11:03] <juxta> ping jonsowman
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Or /ping username
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> NigeySWales: they had 3 a few days ago
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> but that doesn't do the same thing
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> most clients beep or something if you mentione the name GW8RAK
[11:03] <NigeySWales> looks like not everyone wanted to wait 26 weeks..lol thats a long lead time!
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Or can be configured so to do.
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> most irc clients will just beep on name:
[11:03] <GW8RAK> Thanks SpeedEvil. You just made me beep!
[11:04] <GW8RAK> In that case, ping Matt_soton
[11:05] <Dave-M0MYA> IRC was the mainstay of my formative years - now it is a bafflingly confusing place!
[11:06] <Dave-M0MYA> bots that receive email - who'd of thunk it :)
[11:06] <NigeySWales> hehe i remember irc when i first started using pc's!
[11:07] <eroomde> on that note, does anyone know how to make irssi on a remote ssh session beep/flash/bounce when runn through the terminal on osx?
[11:07] <eroomde> i think i'm being awfully rude to people when i forget i have a session open and people have been trying to talk to me
[11:08] <eroomde> you can do it in putty on windows clients but i haven't been able to make terminal.app do it
[11:09] <NigeySWales> hmm not sure on osx, i try to use macs as little as possible :/
[11:09] <Laurenceb_> https://estore.ti.com/Search.aspx?detail=1&k=CC1020EMK-433
[11:09] <Laurenceb_> out of stock :(
[11:10] <eroomde> NigeySWales: thnaks :)
[11:10] <eroomde> I am considering replacing this macbook with a thankpad and runing linux. most of my development is in an ubuntu vm anyway
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/cc1020-cc1070dk-868/development-kit-cc1020-1070dk-868/dp/1248463
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> kind of pricey
[11:13] <NigeySWales> ahh eroomde thinkpads a great machines and iirc they get on fine with most versions of linux to
[11:13] <NigeySWales> Laurenceb, bloody hell! lol
[11:15] <eroomde> NigeySWales: yeah I do like them. I like the keyboard and I like the pointer nipple
[11:15] <eroomde> not having to take your hands from the keyboard is a good thing i think
[11:16] <NigeySWales> :D tend to have very good batteries to
[11:17] <NigeySWales> Laurenceb, http://www.o2xygen.com/parts/CC1020EMK433.htm
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> alternatively the UM12 module from sparkfun
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> or just roll your own board
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> the cc1020emk-434 modules are very low priority for Ti, as they are just supposed to be spares for the cc1020-1070dk-434 eval kit
[11:22] <NigeySWales> true, must be a popular board mind almost everywhere is out of stock
[11:22] <NigeySWales> ahhh
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> ive email Ti, and they tell me to buy that :P
[11:22] <NigeySWales> the eval kit being that 350quid monster..lol
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> the ics are £6 and everywhere
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> if you want to be really lazy, the emk board is 2 layer, and the gerbers are avaliable
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> try seedstudio
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:cc1020sdr.tar.gz <-gerbers are in there
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[11:25] <NigeySWales> oh nice, thats going to make things easier for my newbie brain
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[11:39] <Laurenceb_> http://sensi.org/~svo/capsensor/index.en.html
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> http://sensi.org/~svo/ lots of interesting stuff
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[11:44] <Laurenceb_> lot @ the pornoscope
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> *lol
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[12:05] Action: Dave-M0MYA wishes for a nice analogue pressure sensor, preferably with a nice linear output but farnell is not yielding - anyone got any ideas?
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> 26pc01smt but its not as nice output
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> im using it for pitot
[12:07] <Dave-M0MYA> pitot?
[12:07] <Laurenceb_> airspeed
[12:07] <Dave-M0MYA> ahh
[12:08] <Dave-M0MYA> god bless Mr. Wheatstone and his infamous bridge :)
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> ltc2481 for the interface
[12:10] <Dave-M0MYA> coo, 16 bit! I was kinda just planning to hook it up to one of the 10bit ADCs on an arduino :)
[12:13] <Darkside> juxta:
[12:13] <juxta> hey Darkside
[12:14] <Darkside> just got home :P
[12:14] <Darkside> i can bring the dual bander in tomorrow
[12:14] <Darkside> where are you planning on paring your car
[12:14] <Darkside> and do you have a SWR meter we can use
[12:15] <juxta> hmm, haven't got an SWR meter
[12:15] <Darkside> meh, you can just take it anyway
[12:15] <Darkside> its not like i'm using it
[12:15] <juxta> I'll just use it for RX i think
[12:15] <juxta> see how it goes
[12:15] <Darkside> i just got my tax return in today, so upgrades are in order
[12:15] <juxta> haha
[12:15] <juxta> i submitted my tax on the last possible day
[12:15] <Darkside> i'll finally be able to get on airstream
[12:16] <Darkside> haha i got our family accountant to do mine :P
[12:16] <juxta> i'm sure it'll be processed along with the millions of other people who left it til the last minute
[12:16] <Darkside> :P
[12:16] <juxta> oh actually
[12:16] <juxta> it's already come
[12:16] <juxta> wow
[12:17] <Darkside> lolwut
[12:19] <juxta> surprising
[12:20] <Darkside> hehe
[12:20] <Darkside> you didn't notice a few extra hundred ollars in your account?
[12:20] <juxta> never looked
[12:20] <Darkside> haha
[12:20] <juxta> looks like the weather may have changed Darkside
[12:20] <Darkside> ooh
[12:21] <Darkside> liiiiiink
[12:21] <juxta> have to see how things pan out as we get closer to the weekend
[12:21] <juxta> but atm sunday is in the ocean
[12:21] <Darkside> oh dear
[12:21] <Darkside> link me to the prediction
[12:21] <juxta> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=8502fd27b9d8b3b9412f8c7c0ef90bf1af8aa625
[12:22] <juxta> less than ideal
[12:22] <Darkside> ooooooh dear
[12:22] <juxta> it's going to depend on when this cold front comes in later this week
[12:22] <juxta> hopefully earlier rather than later
[12:22] <Darkside> saturday is the same
[12:22] <juxta> indeed
[12:23] <Darkside> what about cutdown? is that working yet?
[12:26] <juxta> we could do it, but I dont want to launch ~1k of video gear unless the weather is perfect :)
[12:26] <Darkside> yeah
[12:26] <Darkside> very true
[12:27] <Darkside> how heavy will the payload be?
[12:27] <juxta> maybe 800g
[12:28] <Darkside> oh you're using those hd hero camera things
[12:28] <Darkside> how many are flying?
[12:28] <juxta> 3
[12:28] <juxta> :D
[12:29] <shenki> why not 6? once for each face of the box :)
[12:29] <juxta> haha
[12:29] <Darkside> juxta: oh man thats AWESOME
[12:29] <Darkside> have yo done long tests of them yet?
[12:29] <juxta> that would be a rather expensive payload shenki :)
[12:29] <juxta> yeah have been doing some today
[12:29] <Darkside> i.e. to check they can actually record for more than 45 minutes?
[12:29] <Darkside> oh good :P
[12:29] <juxta> will do some more tomorrow
[12:29] <shenki> juxta: indeed. 3 is already quite extravagant
[12:29] <shenki> juxta: will they each point out a side?
[12:29] <Darkside> juxta: come into uni :P
[12:30] <shenki> indeed, come into uni
[12:30] <Darkside> might be able to take over the final year projext lab again :P
[12:30] <shenki> we can set you up in the microelectonics lab
[12:30] <shenki> or there
[12:30] <juxta> want to test in daylight, i'll hang the camera on a string outside so it blows about in the wind & there's a bit of motion in the shot
[12:30] <juxta> yeah I'll be in tomorrow
[12:30] <Darkside> w00t
[12:31] <Darkside> i'll be in sometime in the morning, not exactly sure when yet
[12:31] <Darkside> but before midday
[12:34] <Darkside> fuuu 27 degrees tomorrow
[12:34] <Darkside> 30 on friday!
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Also 27 degrees tomorrow here.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> (F)
[12:34] <Darkside> pff
[12:35] <Darkside> juxta: do you have any nut boards you can bring in tomorrow?
[12:35] <Darkside> so i can do a receive test with my equipment
[12:35] <juxta> yeah I need to make a new one, I only have one
[12:35] <juxta> but I'll bring it along
[12:36] <Darkside> send me the gerber files
[12:36] <Darkside> :)
[12:36] <juxta> i've not generated them
[12:36] <Darkside> aww
[12:36] <juxta> haha
[12:36] <Darkside> i can *probably* get a board milled at uni
[12:36] <juxta> sweet
[12:36] <juxta> double sided?
[12:37] <shenki> yep
[12:37] <Darkside> shenki: nah not pavel
[12:37] <Darkside> danny's machine
[12:37] <shenki> oh
[12:37] <Darkside> i think that can do double sided now
[12:37] <shenki> you can get double sided, but dunno if he can do vias :P
[12:37] <Darkside> but i think they need new milling bits, i'll ask him tomorrow when i pick up the batteries
[12:38] <juxta> so you're gonna end up with 64 batts now Darkside?
[12:38] <Darkside> if the first lot comes through
[12:38] <juxta> haha
[12:38] <juxta> this probably is the first lot
[12:38] <Darkside> i dunno if this is the first or second package they send, as i haven't seen the date on it yet
[12:38] <shenki> Darkside: what have you brought?
[12:38] <Darkside> lithium primary batteries
[12:38] <shenki> why do you call them primary?
[12:39] <Darkside> i ordered them 2 weeks before th launch :P
[12:39] <Darkside> because they aren't rechargeable
[12:39] <shenki> ok
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[12:41] <Darkside> when will you be in shenki ?
[12:41] <shenki> Darkside: did you apply for lca accomdation?
[12:41] <Darkside> shot no
[12:41] <Darkside> shit no
[12:41] <Darkside> also i can pay off LCA now
[12:41] <Darkside> link me to what i have to do
[12:42] <shenki> ok, you should do it quick so you still get in the same place that the rest of us are staying
[12:42] <Darkside> yep
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> lithium bats will last years with no degradation
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[12:42] <shenki> Darkside: http://lca2011.linux.org.au/accommodation/#Urbanest
[12:42] <juxta> indeed, Darkside was just waiting on a shipment that never turned up SpeedEvil :)
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:43] <juxta> looks like he might get double the number of batteries now, haha
[12:43] <Darkside> its arriving almost a month after the launch i bought them for
[12:43] <juxta> (..maybe)
[12:44] <Darkside> shenki: i'll actually be leaving on teh friday by the way
[12:44] <Darkside> my brothers wedding is on saturday >_>
[12:44] <shenki> Darkside: ah, fair enough
[12:45] <Darkside> so i'll have to fly all the way to whyalla on friday
[12:45] <Darkside> uuuurgh
[12:45] <shenki> bummer
[12:45] <Darkside> that'll be a shit of a day
[12:47] <Darkside> i'm hoping to condense my luggage into one backpack and one medium suitcase
[12:48] <Darkside> means i might not be able to bring my suit
[12:48] <shenki> send your suit up to whyalla with someone else before hand
[12:48] <Darkside> no wait, i need to, if i want to go straight to whyalla
[12:48] <Darkside> yeah
[12:48] <Darkside> won't i need it for the penguin dinner?
[12:48] <shenki> ah
[12:48] <shenki> yes and no
[12:48] <Darkside> are you going to that?
[12:49] <shenki> it's a geek conf, there are varied states of dress
[12:49] <shenki> not sure. depends on the $$$
[12:49] <shenki> probably yes
[12:49] <shenki> last year i scammed a ticket for free :D
[12:51] <Darkside> $90
[12:51] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a huge emporer penguin suit, with flippers.
[12:51] <Darkside> also that was in a vacuum
[12:51] <Darkside> argh
[12:54] <Darkside> ok shenki so i need to email this file in?
[12:54] <shenki> yes
[12:54] <Darkside> ok
[12:55] <Darkside> all filled in
[12:56] <Darkside> i prolly won't get the same suite as you
[12:56] <Darkside> but oh well
[12:56] <Darkside> have you sent yours in?
[12:57] <shenki> yea, i did it about a month ago
[12:57] <Darkside> oh lol
[12:57] <shenki> they only got back to me today
[12:57] <shenki> well, they confirmed it within a week
[12:57] <shenki> but only sent out the invoice recently
[12:58] <Darkside> ahh ok
[12:58] <shenki> so cheapest flight departs 0615
[12:58] <shenki> thats with quantas
[12:58] <Darkside> really?
[12:58] <shenki> spend another $35 to fly virgin at a reasonable time
[12:59] <Darkside> whats the total price?
[12:59] <shenki> $165 vs $198
[12:59] <Darkside> wow is that all
[12:59] <Darkside> i was expecting up to $300 for the flight
[13:00] <shenki> ok
[13:01] <shenki> yeah, so virgin fly at 0610, 1005, 2015
[13:01] <shenki> the 1005 looks good
[13:01] <shenki> hrm, +$10 for bags
[13:01] <shenki> so it's actually $45 more than qantas
[13:02] <Darkside> haha
[13:02] <Darkside> what day is this?
[13:02] <shenki> sunday
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Monday!
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:03] <Darkside> happening every SUNDAY
[13:03] Action: SpeedEvil needs to go outside.
[13:03] <Darkside> MONSTER TRUCK MADNESS
[13:03] <Darkside> SUNDAY
[13:03] <shenki> Darkside has crackd
[13:03] <Darkside> yes
[13:04] <Darkside> wait what
[13:04] <shenki> Darkside: ok, so we'll meet up tomorrow and buy our tix, yeah?
[13:04] <Darkside> yip
[13:04] <Darkside> yup
[13:04] <shenki> cool
[13:04] <shenki> hrm, my tax return hasn't come yet. i hope i didn't do something wrong.
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[13:04] Action: shenki did it at the last minute too
[13:05] <Darkside> haha
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[13:06] <shenki> now, the question is: do i play goldeneye, or go to bed early
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[13:06] <Darkside> shenki: go to sleep
[13:06] <shenki> borrring.
[13:06] <Darkside> lol
[13:07] <Darkside> woo i get a netbook tomorrow
[13:07] <shenki> cool?
[13:07] <shenki> what one?
[13:08] <Darkside> acer aspire one
[13:08] <Darkside> buying it off a housemate
[13:08] <Darkside> i just wanted something i can use for radio shit
[13:10] <Darkside> i'm paying a little bit more than MSY price
[13:11] <shenki> ok
[13:12] <Darkside> i'll dump ubuntu netbook on there
[13:12] <Darkside> and have that and windows dual booting
[13:12] <Darkside> its a standard aspire one
[13:12] <Darkside> 10" screen, atom something or another
[13:13] <Darkside> some kind of intel graphics
[13:13] <Darkside> webcam, 160gb hdd, 1gb DDR2
[13:13] <Darkside> the usual stuff
[13:13] <shenki> cool
[13:15] <Darkside> might need to upgrade the battery
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[13:28] <eroomde> hi all
[13:29] <eroomde> Darkside: i have a neat little windshield sucker mount for my netbook
[13:29] <eroomde> it's a good gizmo for chases
[13:30] <Darkside> lol
[13:34] <Darkside> hey juxta, coming to linuxconf?
[13:34] <Darkside> :D
[13:34] <juxta> I dont think so Darkside, no :(
[13:34] <Darkside> should do a talk at the arduino miniconf on using arduino on balloon launches
[13:35] <Darkside> or I can do that for you :P
[13:35] <juxta> sure, please do :)
[13:35] <juxta> hehe
[13:35] <Darkside> :D
[13:35] <Darkside> i'd totally do that
[13:35] <juxta> I'd like to go but I dont think time will be in my favour
[13:35] <Darkside> shenki: what do you think?
[13:35] <Darkside> Talk Title: High Altitude Arduino
[13:35] <juxta> eroomde, how does the netbook scution cup thing hold up on bumpy roads? sounds nifty if it can stand up to some shaking!
[13:36] <Darkside> hmm i should get to bed soon
[13:37] <eroomde> it's not bad
[13:37] <eroomde> it's on a goose neck which absorbs a lot
[13:37] <jonsowman> ping juxta
[13:38] <juxta> heya jonsowman
[13:38] <jonsowman> you pinged?
[13:38] <juxta> yeah.. I had something I wanted to ask you
[13:38] <jonsowman> go for it
[13:38] <juxta> but I forget what now :(
[13:38] <jonsowman> hehe
[13:38] <juxta> eroomde, interesting - where'd you find it?
[13:39] <juxta> oh right
[13:39] <juxta> i remember now
[13:39] <jonsowman> juxta: I get emailed when someone mentions me on IRC when I'm away, so if you just ask the question and mention me, I'll get the email to my phone :)
[13:39] <juxta> the python predictor helper scripts - the debug output seems to go to STDERR? :S
[13:39] <juxta> oh right, will keep that in mind jonsowman, hehe
[13:40] <jonsowman> juxta: maybe it does go to stderr, I can't remember
[13:40] <jonsowman> is it an issue?
[13:40] <juxta> not really
[13:40] <juxta> I just thought it was funny that it went there rather than stdout :)
[13:40] <Darkside> juxta: shenki will be around tomorrow :P
[13:41] <juxta> I was wondering why it wasnt going where I expected when I redirected stdout is all jonsowman
[13:41] <Darkside> shenki: can't be in the CA
[13:41] <Darkside> shit he's gone offlin
[13:41] <jonsowman> juxta: fair enough
[13:41] <jonsowman> I can't tell you I'm afraid
[13:42] <juxta> it's no problem - redirecting stderr did the trick :)
[13:42] <jonsowman> :)
[13:43] <Darkside> juxta: give me a ring when you find a park
[13:43] <Darkside> and i'll come and find you
[13:43] <juxta> okay, will do
[13:43] <juxta> i'll head up around midday I guess
[13:43] <Darkside> cool
[13:43] <eroomde> juxta: got it at some online thingamie ages ago. can't remember where
[13:43] <Darkside> we'll probably use the final year project lab as a base of operations :P
[13:43] <Darkside> i'll ask about getting a PCB made tomorrow
[13:44] <juxta> alrighty, I'll keep an eye on ebay and the like eroomde :)
[13:44] <Darkside> could you email me whatever i'd need to do it?
[13:44] <juxta> yeah, I'll try sort it out tomorrow
[13:44] <Darkside> ok
[13:44] <juxta> before I come in
[13:44] <juxta> darn the scourge of counterfeit sdhc cards
[13:45] <Darkside> yup
[13:46] <Darkside> damn i should get to bed
[13:46] <juxta> indeed that sounds like a plan
[13:48] <Darkside> yup
[13:48] <Darkside> since i need to be in at 11am to book flights
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[13:52] <shenki> Darkside: what wre you saying?
[13:53] <shenki> Darkside: yes, you should submit a talk to jon
[13:53] <shenki> Darkside: if you want, i can co-present as kayak guy
[13:53] <shenki> Darkside: you should definatly submit your talk to the student miniconf
[13:55] <jonsowman> test ping Matt_soton
[13:55] <Darkside> shenki: we cant useth eCA tomorrow
[13:55] <Darkside> will have to use EM211
[13:55] <shenki> Darkside: okay, that's fine
[13:55] <Darkside> then at least we will have big screens
[13:56] <shenki> Darkside: i worked on ground floor of innova today, it was really good there
[13:56] <shenki> where all the ESC key chairs are
[13:58] <Darkside> yeah, but i want big screens :P
[13:59] <shenki> there's 42" LCDs there
[13:59] <shenki> but yeah, we can go to 211
[13:59] <Darkside> also want to test if i can give a usb keyboard and mouse to vmware, and have that be controlled separately
[13:59] <Darkside> like, so terry can play with my bootcamp partition, while i still use OSX
[14:00] <shenki> fair enough. i will come up, but if im not producitve, might dissapear off somewhere else
[14:00] <Darkside> lol ok
[14:00] <Matt_soton> GW8RAK: pong
[14:05] <GW8RAK> Hi Matt_soton. Just a quick question about APEX. When you flew it with a NiM2 transceiver module, how sensitive was the receiver? Could you command it at 100km+?
[14:06] <Matt_soton> well the balloon went up so fast we didnt really get a chance to tes uplink with the yagi and 35W transmit power
[14:06] <Matt_soton> we only mamnaged to ping it on the way down with the 5W radio with whip
[14:06] <GW8RAK> Okay, thanks for that. I was anticipating that if it wasn't that sensitive then a greater transmit power would make up for that.
[14:07] <GW8RAK> What uplink protocol did you have? RTTY type?
[14:07] <Matt_soton> also the demod circuit wasnt great but it worked, that could be imprived
[14:08] <GW8RAK> I'm interested as I'd like to "fly" a datamode repeater.
[14:08] <GW8RAK> Give almost UK wide coverage.
[14:09] <Matt_soton> well the repeater could only use 10mW if its in the air so u would probably need a more sensitive radio somewhere?
[14:09] <GW8RAK> Oh yes, I'm still thinking of a typical amateur 70cm multimode and a yagi.
[14:10] <Randomskk> nim2 is half duplex though
[14:10] <Randomskk> if it was me I'd go for a ntx2 and a nrx2 on a different frequency
[14:10] <Randomskk> I just made up 'nrx2', maybe it doesn't exist
[14:10] <jonsowman> it does
[14:10] <GW8RAK> Certainly split operation
[14:10] <Randomskk> yay sensible product names
[14:10] <jonsowman> and it's exactly what you think it is
[14:11] <GW8RAK> Some thing around 2m uplink and 70cm down.
[14:11] <jonsowman> make sure you use CTCSS or something so it doesnt re-broadcast everything it hears
[14:12] <GW8RAK> No problem with uplink power, but I pondering about how to get the signal from 2m to 70cm (easy) and whether I want to do anything to it onboard.
[14:12] <Randomskk> GW8RAK: I'd probably keep it to entirely 70cm, just on different freqs
[14:12] <jonsowman> if you use CTCSS, then strip the tone before re-transmit
[14:12] <jonsowman> high pass filter
[14:13] <GW8RAK> The problem would be that 2 frequencies on 70cm would need quite a bit of filtering to prevent desensing.
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[14:13] <GW8RAK> Two widely separated frequencies is easier.
[14:13] <Randomskk> true I guess
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[14:13] <jonsowman> I don't crossband repetition is too much of an issue
[14:14] <jonsowman> just be absolutely sure that you have to really want to "activate" the repeater
[14:14] <jonsowman> for it to turn on
[14:14] <GW8RAK> I've put together a number of repeaters and when the input and output are in the same band, that is when all the problems start. Crossband is relatively easy.
[14:17] <Matt_soton> you could just get the balloon to transmit on a HF band if u can find/make a module
[14:17] <jonsowman> you can't transmit on amateur bands from the balloon
[14:17] <Randomskk> that in fact also rules out 2m
[14:17] <jonsowman> GW8RAK was suggesting uplink on 2m
[14:18] <jonsowman> downlink on 70cm unlicensed
[14:18] <Randomskk> aah
[14:18] <jonsowman> which is legal
[14:18] <Randomskk> yes
[14:18] <Randomskk> that would be fine
[14:18] <Matt_soton> there is a legal HF band
[14:18] <Randomskk> unlicensed and unotified?
[14:18] <Randomskk> un-notified&
[14:18] <jonsowman> uh
[14:18] <jonsowman> what?
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[14:18] <juxta> argue more everybody
[14:18] <jonsowman> juxta: haha
[14:18] <Randomskk> hahaha
[14:19] <jonsowman> I'm just guessing now
[14:20] <jonsowman> explain yourself zeusbot!
[14:20] <Matt_soton> hmm cant find hte document now...
[14:20] <jonsowman> haha
[14:20] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: might as well use a 70cm downlink
[14:20] <Randomskk> smaller antennas if nothing else
[14:20] <jonsowman> it's known to work
[14:20] <Randomskk> lossier radio modules though
[14:20] <jonsowman> Randomskk: indeed
[14:21] <Matt_soton> well someone should try it at least
[14:21] <jonsowman> there are many things like this that I'd like to try
[14:21] <juxta> hmm, lovely, these '32gb' sd cards I have here are actually 1GB cards which lie and present themselves as 32gb
[14:21] <Randomskk> what
[14:21] <jonsowman> :o
[14:22] <juxta> this what happens when people decide to buy 32GB SDHC cards on ebay - everything local is $70+ (and probably genuine), the ones from china are only $20-30
[14:23] <GW8RAK> Is there an HF frequency on which it is legal to transmit from a balloon?
[14:23] <jonsowman> apparently
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[14:23] <juxta> ahhh well, not my mistake, I'll just go buy some nice shiny new ones tomorrow
[14:24] <GW8RAK> Certainly a HF TX is easy to build. And think of the aerial you could use?
[14:24] <GW8RAK> Multi wavelength long
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[14:24] <Matt_soton> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR2030final.pdf
[14:25] <Matt_soton> is the ofcom doucment about what u can use
[14:25] Action: Dave-M0MYA got disconnected by a friend who has a habit of breaking *anything* electronic
[14:25] <Dave-M0MYA> seems the train of thought has been continuing :)
[14:26] <Matt_soton> look at page 13
[14:28] <Randomskk> oh huh. neat.
[14:28] <Randomskk> they may need to be notified though
[14:29] <GW8RAK> thanks for that Matt_soton. Looking on page 19, it specifies some channels as 500mW for remote meter reading. Would that include reading a GPS meter?
[14:29] <russss> heh
[14:29] <Randomskk> 10mW is probably plenty though - especially on lower frequencies where free space path loss will be smaller
[14:30] <Matt_soton> it does say airborne use tho
[14:30] <Randomskk> it does indeed
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> 500mW@868
[14:30] <Randomskk> you could totally get away with it
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> In principle
[14:30] <Randomskk> 868 is rarer for hams
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> allowed for airborne
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> Or asset-tracking
[14:31] <Matt_soton> some of those on p19 hae duty limits tho
[14:31] <Randomskk> do any of those HF frequencies actually overlap amateur use though
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[14:33] <Randomskk> they seem to all /just miss/ the 20, 10 and 6m bands
[14:34] <GW8RAK> I was looking at 169.4MHz, 500mW erp. Duty cycle is 10%, but it doesn't specifiy how that is calculated.
[14:35] <Randomskk> yes, we'll just operate all the time we're in the air then not launch for another ten launch-time periods
[14:35] <Randomskk> :P
[14:35] <Randomskk> well, nine
[14:35] <Randomskk> launch, two hour flight, 18 hours downtime, that's 10% overall right
[14:35] <Randomskk> I suspect it is defined somewhere else
[14:35] <GW8RAK> In the absence of a definition, that was my interpretation. For every flight that takes place, 9 don't take place!
[14:36] <GW8RAK> I tried to find it once before and since they are not concerned about the duty cycle of the TX, they probably mean that you can't transmit more than 1 s in 10.
[14:36] <Matt_soton> its over an hour
[14:36] <Matt_soton> see pg9
[14:37] <Randomskk> hah so it does
[14:37] <Randomskk> this is where reading comprehension gets me
[14:37] <Matt_soton> cntrl-F duty :)
[14:37] <Randomskk> that said I'd still say go for 2m and 70cm
[14:37] <Randomskk> more dual band antennas there
[14:37] <GW8RAK> Well spotted. So 1s tx in 10 would be okay.
[14:37] <Randomskk> otherwise you'd need an antenna for up and another for down
[14:38] <Randomskk> ground-side, that is
[14:38] <GW8RAK> Got that already.
[14:39] Action: Randomskk doesn't
[14:39] <Randomskk> hf yagis are quite a lot bigger too
[14:39] <Randomskk> but the tx power is still pretty tiny, so an hf dipole still might not be enough to pick up the balloon
[14:40] <Darkside> hehe doing enough power on HF to do skywave from a balloon would be cool
[14:40] <Darkside> but you'd need a horizontal antenna, which isn't really possible
[14:41] <Randomskk> well it could be done but is harder, the legalities are more tricky
[14:41] <Darkside> heh
[14:41] <Darkside> would be interesting to see how skywave works at high altitudes
[14:42] <Darkside> launch when theres a lot of sporadic E around :P
[14:42] <Randomskk> we get nowhere near ionosphere altitude
[14:42] <GW8RAK> A vertical will give low angle radiation which gives longer distance
[14:42] <Darkside> yeah i had a vertical on my payload
[14:42] <Darkside> but i wasn't putting out enough power for skywave
[14:42] <Darkside> next time i'll probably be doing 2W or so, so it should bounce
[14:43] <GW8RAK> Although an upside down vertical could have an interesting radiation pattern.
[14:43] <Darkside> ?
[14:44] <Darkside> i was using a half wave dipole
[14:44] <GW8RAK> Fed in the centre?
[14:44] <Darkside> yup
[14:44] <Darkside> the payload was in the centre :)
[14:44] <GW8RAK> Of course. Silly me. That's an easy way to achieve it.
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[14:45] <Darkside> i worked very well, but next time i want more output power!
[14:45] <Darkside> 40mW is fine for line of sight, but i want you guys to pick it up :P
[14:45] <Darkside> haha
[14:46] <GW8RAK> Noise is the problem at HF
[14:46] <Darkside> ok, nn
[14:46] <GW8RAK> Weak signal modes?
[14:47] <Darkside> yes, i could have it switch between high speed telemetry (300 baud) and maybe doing a WSPR transmission
[14:47] <Darkside> like, 2 minutes of WSPR, then 2 minutes of 300 baud RTTY
[14:47] <GW8RAK> I've heard of them, but don't know much about them.
[14:47] <Darkside> and i could make it change frequency to use WSPR too
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[14:48] <Darkside> jump between 7040 for WSPR, and 7037 for RTTY
[14:48] <Randomskk> I want to play with exciting signal modes and radio stuff
[14:48] <GW8RAK> I've used DSP on Pactor and it's strange when it says it has connected to a station you can't hear.
[14:48] <GW8RAK> And got reasonable data rate
[14:48] <Darkside> i need to implement WSPR on an AVR at some point
[14:48] <Darkside> i have the spec for it
[14:48] <Randomskk> that would be cool
[14:49] <Darkside> just need to work out how to actually implement it
[14:49] <Darkside> i'd use GPS time for sync
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[14:50] <Darkside> anyway, sleep
[14:50] <Darkside> nn
[14:51] <GW8RAK> nn
[14:52] <GW8RAK> astra2001uk: I think I recognise that identity. Are you coming to see me on Wednesday evening?
[14:53] <GW8RAK> That should be astr2001uk.
[14:53] <astr2001uk> Ha, yes!
[14:54] <GW8RAK> Welcome to the group
[14:54] <astr2001uk> Thanks, I keep on eye on the room now and then
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[15:21] <jonsowman> ping eroomde
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[16:15] <Zuph> New balloon PCBs! http://twitpic.com/3520yd
[16:16] <NigeySWales> just a few! :D
[16:17] <Zuph> They sent us twice as many as we ordered!
[16:19] <NigeySWales> ah but did they bill you more than they should have?
[16:19] <Zuph> Nope
[16:19] <Zuph> Not at all.
[16:19] <NigeySWales> LOL ! nowthat's a result ;)
[16:19] <Zuph> They took 4 business days longer than they said they would, though.
[16:19] <NigeySWales> well id be happy with twice the order for what i paid but 4 days late :D
[16:19] <Zuph> (which fell over 2 weekends, so it took a week longer than it should have).
[16:21] <Dave-M0MYA> balloon PCBs? Whats all this then?
[16:22] <NigeySWales> hi dave
[16:22] <Zuph> Our own in-house design flight computer, balloon envelope sensor (which we have to scrap), and ground support board.
[16:23] <Dave-M0MYA> ello NigeySWales
[16:23] <NigeySWales> Zuph, looks very interesting!
[16:24] <Dave-M0MYA> Zuph: sounds spot on. Is this going to be made generally available, or is it a more "private" affair? :)
[16:26] <eroomde> the paraprazzi autopilot has a new board too
[16:26] <eroomde> the LISA
[16:26] <eroomde> is almost exactly what Badger 2 is, but with a few more heardware revisions and a big team working on it. Might go with that then instead of making a Badger 2.1
[16:27] <Zuph> Dave-M0MYA: Usage and assembly details will eventually be here: http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=hardware:mcp
[16:27] <Zuph> CAD files already up here: https://github.com/Zuph/LVL1-Transatlantic-Balloon/tree/master/Hardware/lvl1_ballonCPU/
[16:27] <Dave-M0MYA> awww, you folks are ace!
[16:28] <NigeySWales> talk about open-ness, awsome !
[16:29] <jonsowman> eroomde: are there are high res pics from the Nova flights around?
[16:29] <eroomde> which ones?
[16:29] <jonsowman> Nova 1 forex
[16:29] <jonsowman> the horizon shots
[16:29] <eroomde> flickr
[16:29] <eroomde> do you want the horizon panorama?
[16:30] <eroomde> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[16:30] <Zuph> Honestly, if there's interest, I'd be willing to give a few away for $5+shipping.
[16:30] <jonsowman> all the flickr ones seem to be 1024x768
[16:30] <eroomde> flickr.com/cuspaceflight should have originals if you click on 'view original size'
[16:30] <eroomde> link me to s apsecific example jonsowman
[16:31] <jonsowman> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/nova1gallery/images/100_0787.jpg
[16:31] <jonsowman> oops
[16:31] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3739964165/sizes/o/in/set-72157621752041446/
[16:31] <jonsowman> there
[16:31] <Hibby> how are we?
[16:32] <eroomde> hmm i think that might be because i didn't have the nova 1 originals
[16:33] <eroomde> i beleive i uploaded the originals in most of the other cases though
[16:35] <jonsowman> ok, thanks eroomde
[16:35] <eroomde> i'm not entirely sure where they'd be to be honest - maybe with henry hallam or carl morland
[16:35] <jonsowman> i emailed carl wrt transferring the cuspaceflight.co.uk domain to someone currently in spaceflight
[16:35] <jonsowman> no reply...
[16:36] <eroomde> mmm it can be hard work
[16:36] <jonsowman> contacting him?
[16:37] <eroomde> I'm write in thinking you don't know him personally? I think that correlates with lack of need to answer emails in his book :)
[16:37] <eroomde> right*
[16:37] <jonsowman> I see
[16:37] <jonsowman> no I don't know him personally
[16:37] <jonsowman> you'd think he'd respond to CUSF related emails though
[16:37] <eroomde> ^ this confirms you don't know him personally :)
[16:38] <jonsowman> right
[16:38] <jonsowman> I thought it might make his life a bit easier not having to look after the domain
[16:38] <jonsowman> should I chase it? or not bother?
[16:39] <eroomde> no keep chasing it
[16:39] <eroomde> if it doesn't work i'll have a go. It's just a bit like david miller - he has to be persuaded that you're not going away
[16:40] <jonsowman> OK will do
[16:41] <jonsowman> I'm just concerned that the domain will expire and since he's not an active CUSF member, he won't bother to renew
[16:42] <eroomde> chase
[16:42] <jonsowman> will do
[16:42] <jonsowman> thanks
[16:43] <eroomde> next time I'm up I'll try and organize a drink so you can meet
[16:43] <eroomde> he's an awesome guy, just super bad at responding to emails that aren't directly about stuff he's working on
[16:45] <jonsowman> that'd be great
[16:45] <jonsowman> :)
[16:49] <Zuph> Honestly, if there's interest, I'd be willing to give a few away for $5+shipping.
[16:49] <Zuph> bah
[16:49] <Zuph> Wrong alt-tab
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[17:09] <jonsowman> eroomde: chased
[17:09] <jonsowman> will let you know what happens
[17:12] <eroomde> ta
[17:13] <eroomde> we can hopefully tweak the control panel so it's less broken
[17:13] <eroomde> i.e. not a temporary veneer for srcf.ucam... as soon as you hit an internal link
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[17:18] <jonsowman> eroomde: it's not a problem with the domain as such
[17:19] <jonsowman> whoever set it up obviously couldn't be bothered doing it properly, as it seems to be a simple redirect
[17:19] <jonsowman> really it should have a DNS CNAME to the SRCF webserver
[17:19] <jonsowman> and then the SRCF can set up a proper vhost so it all works
[17:19] <eroomde> too late to fix?
[17:19] <jonsowman> no it's fine
[17:20] <jonsowman> I need the domain under my control do it though
[17:20] <jonsowman> "my control" meaning I need access to the DNS records for it
[17:21] <jonsowman> if Carl is happy to release the domain to me, I'll do it as soon as I get it
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[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-CCD-Sensor-IC-MN34543-NEW-2-PCS-/260546695176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca9cb1008 - seems to be a 12MP CCD unless my google skills have failed.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Which they may have done
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[18:38] <johnnyfive> anyone thought about trying to send somet to space? as in, orbit?
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> yes,
[18:39] <johnnyfive> let me rephrase: i'm sure people have thought about it, are there any articles to the do-it-yourself crowd?
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> IT's really not easy.
[18:39] <johnnyfive> aimed at
[18:39] <johnnyfive> Ya, I hear you there, I understand, i'd just like to read about it
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> For example - where are you?
[18:39] <johnnyfive> in the us
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> As far as I'm aware, you'd need approval from the FAA
[18:40] <johnnyfive> well there's always south america
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> which is quite expensive.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Most countries have laws like sex tourism ones.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Which mean you can't legally launch from anywhere
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Though the US is keen on extraterritorality for everything.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> On the practical aspect - it's really quite hard.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> What sort of payload?
[18:41] <johnnyfive> idk, i'm not that far into any train of thought on the subject, just curious
[18:42] <fsphil> mmm... in-orbit balloon tracker
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Basically, for even a few grams, it's a whole heap of effort, to the extent that nobodies done it.
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> I've got designs for a rocket to launch around a kilo into orbit.
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> It's a four-stage rocket, with the initial stage being around a ton.
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> And this is quite ambitious.
[18:43] <johnnyfive> my god :S
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Add in that this is guided, and you get it wrong, and you can slam a hundred kilos of fuel into the ground at a thousand miles an hour within a radius of 60km, and it's got some issues.
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[18:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.n-prize.com/
[18:45] <russss> these guys are saying Q1 2011 now ;) http://www.interorbital.com/TubeSat_1.htm
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Is a prize for doing a launch for 10 grams, on 999 pounds ($1400 or so)
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - then there is that.
[18:46] <russss> depends on whether you're interested in the getting things into orbit or the having something in orbit
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> I would be ideally wanting something a bit more ambitious than that
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> In a rather higher orbit.
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> But for obvious reasons, they are unwilling to let you have fuelled rockets onboard. :)
[18:49] <russss> I don't think you'd be able to get propellant and anything else useful given their weight restrictions
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Depends.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Radiatively cooled engines can be really quite small.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> Though that raises the cost slightly as Rh/Ir isn't cheap.
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> Then there is electric stuff - pulsed plasma thrusters.
[18:52] <johnnyfive> the n-prize looks awesome
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> The only entrant listed from the 'teams' link has been smoking some serious crack though.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb has some plans for a carbon fibre rocket launched from a balloon
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[20:04] <NigeySWales> did someone a ton of propellant for somethng or are my eyes decieving me ? :|
[20:04] <NigeySWales> mention+
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> No, it was me.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> It's a plan for a 1Kg to orbit rocket.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> Thoguh it's only at the scribbled on-sheets-of-a4 stage
[20:09] <NigeySWales> wow, now that's what you call ambitious :D
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[20:12] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[20:12] <SpeedEvil> Basic concept is a scalable launcher.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Each stage has either a payload of 1/5th its weight. A recovery system of 1/5th of its weight.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> So you can flight test multiple times before stacking and launching
[20:13] <NigeySWales> makes sense
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> The fun part of that is that if you debug a 4 stage variant, you can put a 5th stage on, and go leo->geo
[20:14] <NigeySWales> exactly, although leo to geo is a heck of a jump
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> As an example - numbers may vary. :)
[20:15] <NigeySWales> :D
[20:15] <fsphil> if you can do geo - then lunar orbit wouldn't be all that much more
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> indeed.
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Though getting to the moon implies a Looong cold-soak.
[20:15] <Zuph> Awesome map of Delta-Vs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deltavs.svg
[20:15] <fsphil> although you'd have fun trying to track such a probe
[20:16] <Zuph> Also includes some radiation.
[20:16] <NigeySWales> yeah youd need slightly more than a home made yagi for that 1 lol
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I was thinking laser pointer back at earth.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you need a surprisingly modest scope with a narrowband filter.
[20:16] <fsphil> like that big array someone linked a photo to last night
[20:16] <Zuph> My pet project is a system that provides software, rather than hardware protection for certain kinds of radiation upsets :)
[20:16] <fsphil> aaah data over laser,, playing with that atm :)
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> To pick up a green laser pointer pointed at earth with 500mW
[20:17] <NigeySWales> ohh the eme ?
[20:17] <fsphil> yep - the eme beastie
[20:17] <NigeySWales> arent they still shooting a laser at the moon to a mirror apollo left there?
[20:17] <NigeySWales> measuring the orbital drift
[20:17] <fsphil> I've got 50 baud working over LED, and I've got a 3 watt LED - going to try seeing if I can detect it from the local mountain with a telescope
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[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Seen ...
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> RONJA ?
[20:20] <fsphil> yea, spotted that ;)
[20:21] <fsphil> not like ronja, this is just a normal led
[20:21] <fsphil> not laser
[20:21] <fsphil> and a lot lot slower
[20:21] <fsphil> well as normal as a 3 watt led can be
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[20:23] <griffonbot> Received email: SebSahlin <seb.sailorboy@gmail.com> "Re: GPS/Balloon tracing help"
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[20:23] <GW8RAK> For laser experiments, have you seen http://www.maxmcarter.com/lasrstuf/laserexperiments.html ?
[20:24] <fsphil> ooh that's neat
[20:25] <GW8RAK> Loads of information on there.
[20:25] <russss> I like that delta-vs map
[20:25] <russss> but I tried to fix the egregious grammar errors and my wikimedia commons account wouldn't let me
[20:26] <fsphil> sounds pretty good at 6.5 miles
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[20:27] <fsphil> sounds like vinyl
[20:28] <russss> oh there, now it works
[20:28] <russss> although I forgot to put a comment :/
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> RONJA is not laser
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Also
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> you can get 500mW lasers cheap
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> And a binocular makes a great beam expander
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Also the other half can recieve the beam
[20:28] <NigeySWales> hmm ya know, with creative scrounging that n-prize is doable
[20:29] <Zuph> Heck, especially this year! Nasa's getting rid of shuttle parts at cut rates!
[20:29] <eroomde> here we go
[20:30] <NigeySWales> lol Zuph we'll buy discovery!
[20:30] <eroomde> another person struck down with n-prize flu
[20:30] <NigeySWales> noo, just thinking its doable, but highly difficult
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Shuttle is an example of how to screw up by the numbers.
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> It was driven by basically insane requirements.
[20:31] <eroomde> yeah fascinating actually
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> That is - to be able to launch or recover (IIRC) a satellite over the pole on short notice, and land back on a landing pad in the continental USA.
[20:31] <eroomde> the wings are there for a vast gliding cross range so that it could deliver a satt into a polar orbit without actually completing a full orbit itself
[20:31] <eroomde> so that others couldn't get the keplarian elements
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[20:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, so instead of hellschreiber how about slowfeld...
[20:32] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, you sure it's not laser?
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:32] <Randomskk> ronja is an led through a loupe generally
[20:32] <fsphil> aah
[20:32] <Zuph> The wings are there because the US military hijacked the specifications page.
[20:33] <eroomde> hellschreiber is hardly the fastest :)
[20:33] <eroomde> but yeah why not?
[20:34] <jcoxon> just need to work out hte baud rate
[20:43] <russss> there we go, much better. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deltavs.svg
[20:43] <russss> behold my inkscape skillz.
[20:44] <russss> still not great, but still
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[20:49] <fsphil> nice
[20:50] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
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[21:06] <NigeySWales> are the t68i's the preferred devices ?
[21:06] <jonsowman> they are known to work
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[21:07] <jonsowman> urgh join/quit spam
[21:07] <NigeySWales> cool seems to be quite a few on ebay
[21:07] <jonsowman> I've got used one personally but many people have
[21:07] <jonsowman> s/got/not/
[21:08] <NigeySWales> i was thinking of using an old k800i i have here but no good apparently
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[21:08] <jonsowman> no they definitely aren't any good
[21:08] <jonsowman> their UART is an emulated one over USB
[21:08] <jonsowman> which is no use
[21:08] <NigeySWales> dam, i will find a use for that horrid thing 1 day lol !
[21:08] <jonsowman> you need a phone with a real UART
[21:10] <NigeySWales> okies, seeing as ive found lots of references, plus code i might as well get the t68 .. dont might the 12 quid its going for
[21:10] <jonsowman> that's acceptable money
[21:10] <jonsowman> your other option is a GSM module
[21:10] <jonsowman> but they're significantely more than £12 on the whole
[21:11] <NigeySWales> yeah i was looking at them but a bit on the expensive side :(
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[22:11] <jonsowman> ping jcoxon
[22:11] <jonsowman> are you still wanting the 1500g CUSF balloon?
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[22:27] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: Postponed launch from today possibly happening on Wednesday - CW beacon launch 1400-1500GMT from Churchill College. #cusf [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/1760663395373056]
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[22:28] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[22:28] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf
[22:28] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[22:29] <griffonbot> @Daniel_Richman: griffonbot *slap* #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Daniel_Richman/status/1763172767760384]
[22:29] <DanielRichman> better ;)
[22:30] <jonsowman> excellent
[22:30] <jonsowman> thanks DanielRichman
[22:34] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - CW beacon launch 1400-1500GMT from Churchill College Cambridge
[22:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon.sowman@gmail.com> "Re: Potential XABEN Launch - Monday 8th November"
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[22:46] <NigeySWales> hi jonsowman
[22:46] <jonsowman> hi NigeySWales
[22:46] <jonsowman> what's up?
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[22:46] <NigeySWales> reading and more reading, now ive got hardware ordered i guess i need to start looking at how its all going to talk to each other
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[23:16] <NigeySWales> hi RocketBoy , astr2001uk
[23:17] <astr2001uk> hi
[23:17] <astr2001uk> how you getting on?
[23:18] <Laurenceb> yo
[23:18] Action: Laurenceb back
[23:18] <NigeySWales> astr2001uk, pretty good, i think :D
[23:21] <Laurenceb> eroomde: i have nova1 photos
[23:21] Action: Laurenceb was at nova1
[23:21] <Laurenceb> jonsowman even
[23:22] <jonsowman> oo
[23:22] <jonsowman> are there a lot?
[23:22] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: photos from the payload, or photos of the payload?
[23:26] <Laurenceb> actually maybe not... it was jcoxons launch the next day
[23:26] <Laurenceb> mostly on an old HDD
[23:26] Action: Laurenceb searches about
[23:28] <jcoxon> i've got nova1 launch and recovery
[23:28] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/Qc6Fq.jpg
[23:28] <Laurenceb> that was the next day
[23:28] <Laurenceb> think jcoxon launched with that envelope
[23:31] <jcoxon> found it...
[23:31] <jcoxon> found the damn hellschreiber bug
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:32] <jcoxon> wow i've been an idiot
[23:32] <LazyLeopard> One of those sorts of bugs....
[23:32] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/j6T9Z.jpg
[23:32] <jcoxon> that looks like a pegasus
[23:33] <Laurenceb> pegausu 2 iirc
[23:33] <jcoxon> pegIII
[23:33] <Laurenceb> oh
[23:33] <Laurenceb> lots of pegassi
[23:33] <Laurenceb> :P
[23:34] <jcoxon> hold on one sec
[23:34] <jcoxon> will upload images
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yeah i only have a few old pcs on here
[23:34] <Laurenceb> thats all summer '06
[23:35] <Randomskk> hmm am I way overcomplicating things by using an NPN to drive a PNP to drive an n-channel MOSFET high, then a PNP driving an NPN to drive the same MOSFET low?
[23:35] <Randomskk> i.e., active high and low gate voltages from a single on/off signal driving the front NPN/PNP
[23:35] <Randomskk> given as I don't want to spend money on mosfet driver chips which tend to be kinda costly
[23:35] <Laurenceb> you lost me at the thrid transistor
[23:35] <Laurenceb> :D
[23:36] <Randomskk> but can't drive the mosfets directly from the microcontroller, as it is about 3V and they want 12V or 24V (using n channels in both top and bottom of a half-h)
[23:36] <jcoxon> okay here is a question...
[23:36] <jcoxon> so i've got 2 radio transmitters 434.075 and 434.650
[23:36] <jcoxon> can their ground planes overlap?
[23:36] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: prob needed then
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[23:43] <jcoxon> jonsowman, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157625343414064/
[23:44] <jonsowman> ta jcoxon
[23:44] <jonsowman> did you see my ping above? wrt wanting the use the 1500g balloon?
[23:44] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: https://randomskk.net/u/n_channel_half_h.jpg is a quick sketch of what I mean
[23:45] <Randomskk> there are like, many transistors
[23:45] <jcoxon> jonsowman, ummmm maybe
[23:45] <jcoxon> will email steve
[23:46] <Laurenceb> cant you lose half of those transistors?
[23:46] <Laurenceb> and let the resistors do the work?
[23:46] <Randomskk> the idea is that the resistors discharge the mosfet's gate capacitance slowly
[23:47] <Randomskk> vs transistors which can do it quickly
[23:47] <Randomskk> otherwise I could get cross conduction when one is still conducting a bit and the other turns on
[23:47] <Laurenceb> i guess
[23:47] <Laurenceb> annoying
[23:47] <Randomskk> I could use smaller resistors to discharge it quicker
[23:47] <Laurenceb> cant you do somethign with capacitors...
[23:48] <Laurenceb> if you had 3v n channel mosfets
[23:48] <Randomskk> 3v mosfets tend to be quite costly
[23:49] <Randomskk> http://www.nxp.com/#/pip/pip=[pip=PEMD48_PUMD48]|pp=[t=pip,i=PEMD48_PUMD48] exists
[23:49] <Randomskk> which contains two transistors and four resistors in a useful configuration in a absolutely tiny package
[23:49] <Randomskk> SC-88
[23:50] <Randomskk> which is around 2mm a side
[23:50] <Laurenceb> i guess use that then
[23:50] <Randomskk> hard to tell what the best way of doing it is
[23:50] <Randomskk> there are so many options
[23:50] <Randomskk> and arguably no 'best' way, either
[23:52] <Randomskk> but two of those packages per mosfet would suffice I think
[23:52] <Randomskk> each one gives me a PNP and an NPN with the resistors needed, then just wire it up basically
[23:52] <Randomskk> hmm
[23:52] <Randomskk> wonder how many mosfets I could drive from one of them
[23:53] <Randomskk> 100mA max current it says
[23:53] <Randomskk> hard to say how much current the mosfet takes when turning on
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[23:55] <Randomskk> gate charge is otoo 20nC apparently
[23:57] <NigeySWales> i hope i jus ordered the right pcbs ..
[23:57] <NigeySWales> batchpcb confuses me
[00:00] --- Tue Nov 9 2010