highaltitude.log.20101106

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[08:00] <juxta_> ping Darkside
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[10:03] <m1x10> HI
[10:03] <m1x10> :):)
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> hi.
[10:06] <m1x10> we have elections and I got 2 days free.
[10:06] <m1x10> Im in Athens
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:06] <m1x10> :p
[10:07] <NigeySWales> morning all
[10:07] <m1x10> Athens is big and air is not breathable
[10:08] <NigeySWales> nice place though :)
[10:13] <m1x10> bliah
[10:13] <m1x10> I sew more pakistans rather athinaians
[10:13] <NigeySWales> :o
[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon.sowman@gmail.com> "Potential XABEN Launch - Monday 8th November"
[10:15] <m1x10> did I miss some new launch ?
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[10:30] <eroomde> morning all
[10:30] <eroomde> m1x10: don't worry, the launch isn't yet
[10:31] <eroomde> are you on the ukhas mailing list?
[10:32] <fsphil> hiya m1x10, so you've survived the first few days then :)
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[10:33] <fsphil> What's in the payload for mondays launch?
[10:36] <m1x10> Hi fsphil! Yeah it's a bit of easy the first days
[10:36] <jonsowman> fsphil: not entirely sure
[10:36] <jonsowman> I've only been given the telem details
[10:36] <jonsowman> ask Steve when he's on IRC :)
[10:36] <fsphil> ooh mystery package :)
[10:37] <m1x10> The asked if I know computers and they said they might take me to the offices
[10:40] Dave-M0MYA (586e9e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.110.158.130) joined #highaltitude.
[10:40] <Dave-M0MYA> morning folks
[10:41] <fsphil> isn't there suppose to be 80km/h winds on sunday night / monday? or is that part of the plan? :)
[10:41] Action: Dave-M0MYA is confused regarding the proliferation of launches. Can anyone confirm the launch from the EARS site tomorrow, please? (Swetting up dl-fldigi)
[10:41] <Dave-M0MYA> *setting
[10:41] <fsphil> there should be a launch on Monday
[10:42] <fsphil> and hopefully another one next weekend
[10:42] <Dave-M0MYA> as in the one from Churchill? It that a "instead of" rathen than an "as well as" tomorrow's launch?
[10:43] <fsphil> I don't think there is one tomorrow?
[10:43] <Dave-M0MYA> I was going by this:http://randomsolutions.co.uk/BALLOONRELEASE/BALLOONRELEASES.HTM (linked from UKHAB wiki
[10:44] <fsphil> ah, no I think that's wrong
[10:44] <Dave-M0MYA> hehe
[10:44] <fsphil> although a Monday launch does seem unusual
[10:45] <Dave-M0MYA> I think it will help me align my beam if I point it towards the sky on the correct day ;-)
[10:48] <eroomde> Dave-M0MYA: there is no launch tomorrow now
[10:48] <eroomde> aqs far as i know
[10:48] <Dave-M0MYA> thanks eroomde
[10:48] <eroomde> weather fail
[10:48] <Dave-M0MYA> :(
[10:52] <LazyLeopard> Weather likely to affect Monday's as well?
[10:55] <eroomde> not sure
[10:55] <LazyLeopard> Fair enough.
[10:55] <eroomde> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/hourly-predictions/
[10:55] <eroomde> monday looks better
[10:57] <m1x10> what is the official prediction site?
[10:57] <fsphil> lets hope it bursts on schedule :)
[10:57] <eroomde> m1x10: cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict for individual predictions
[10:57] <eroomde> though i think that's now running on the habhub server. single deployment is probably a bit easier
[10:58] <Randomskk> that link redirects to habhub
[10:58] <jonsowman> indeed
[10:58] <eroomde> so habhub.org/predict
[10:59] <eroomde> ok time to bake some bread
[10:59] <eroomde> see y'all
[10:59] <jonsowman> have fun
[10:59] <Dave-M0MYA> how closely does the prediction tend to model reality?
[11:00] <m1x10> thx
[11:00] <fsphil> does this prediction work for anyone?: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b540fe811f2e77801f13f11b5bd513c3fa70f712
[11:01] <jonsowman> ew that's horribly broken
[11:01] <jonsowman> what happened?
[11:01] <fsphil> not sure, just punched in a few numbers to see what would happen if I launched here today
[11:01] <Randomskk> it's as though it's very very zoomed north
[11:01] <Randomskk> zoom out loads and move down
[11:01] <jonsowman> weird.
[11:01] <fsphil> I can't zoom out
[11:02] <fsphil> oh I can
[11:02] <fsphil> just have to move way way down
[11:02] <eroomde> Dave-M0MYA: it's a function mainly of two things:
[11:02] <eroomde> 1) How far into the future you predict
[11:03] <eroomde> 2) How accurate the data (rates, burst alts) you put in
[11:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: I've never seen that before
[11:03] <jonsowman> does re-running solve?
[11:03] <eroomde> if you minimise 1 (say the night before or morning of launch day) and have a good fill system that lets you nail your target rates, it's often good for say 1-2km of true landing site over 100+km flight
[11:03] <m1x10> its not downloading the server data
[11:04] <m1x10> stuck at 10%
[11:04] <eroomde> Dave-M0MYA: in the dynamic predictor, it can be really show-off good
[11:04] <eroomde> let me find you a screen cap, hang on a sec
[11:05] <fsphil> jonsowman, nope but if I put it forward an hour its fine
[11:05] <Dave-M0MYA> wow, thats much more accurate than I expected. I'd imagine there are huge amounts of variables to deal with
[11:05] <jonsowman> fsphil: maybe it's a bad bit of cached data
[11:05] <jonsowman> hold on
[11:06] <fsphil> back in a sec, dogs looking out
[11:06] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:06] <jonsowman> fsphil: when you're back, try again
[11:06] <jonsowman> how do you line-fit in gnuplot again?
[11:07] <Randomskk> it's a bit messy
[11:07] <Randomskk> f(x) =m*x + c
[11:07] <Randomskk> wait
[11:07] <Randomskk> then,
[11:07] <Randomskk> fit f(x) "./data" using 1:2 via m, c
[11:07] <Randomskk> or something
[11:08] <jonsowman> sounds fun
[11:08] <eroomde> Dave-M0MYA: http://i.imgur.com/BJ8hO.png
[11:08] <jonsowman> thanks
[11:08] <eroomde> the blue line is a zoom in of part of the prediction made immediately after the balloon burst at about 30km
[11:08] <jonsowman> eroomde: hehe that's awesome
[11:08] <eroomde> and the yellow marker is the actual landing spot
[11:08] <Dave-M0MYA> eroomde: very smart indeed
[11:08] <Randomskk> jonsowman: for any given f(x), too. it'l fit all the parameters you specify
[11:08] <Randomskk> so exponentials etc is fine too
[11:09] <jonsowman> cool
[11:09] <jonsowman> well I'm hoping this is linear
[11:09] <eroomde> we saw that one come down
[11:09] <jonsowman> bloody pasta.
[11:09] <eroomde> we drove to where we thought we should ahead of time and it came overhead right on cue
[11:09] <eroomde> right need to dash fo real this time
[11:09] <Dave-M0MYA> next you'll be catching the payload :)
[11:09] <eroomde> one day!
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> wave eroomde
[11:10] <Dave-M0MYA> jonsowman: "well I'm hoping this is linear" <---- This is something I say frequently :)
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[11:16] <jonsowman> yay done
[11:16] <jonsowman> cheers Randomskk
[11:17] <jonsowman> Dave-M0MYA: hehe, you're not the only one
[11:17] <Randomskk> the number of times I've heard "oh it's mostly linear here, let's say it's linear"
[11:17] <Randomskk> good thing to, allow non linear analysis
[11:17] <Randomskk> too*
[11:18] <jonsowman> happily, pasta is elastic
[11:18] <jonsowman> no plastic deformation here
[11:18] <jonsowman> \o/
[11:18] <Randomskk> good stuff
[11:18] <Randomskk> did we get a young's modulus?
[11:19] <jonsowman> how does one find E from a three point bend
[11:19] <jonsowman> it's a simply supported beam right
[11:20] <jonsowman> negligible self weight
[11:20] <jonsowman> central deflection = (WL^3)/48EI
[11:20] <m1x10> IE7 has serious bug with predictor
[11:21] <jonsowman> we know W, L
[11:21] <jonsowman> we can roughly calculate I
[11:21] <jonsowman> gives us E
[11:21] <jonsowman> ?
[11:21] <m1x10> Pressing Run-Prediction whole screen gets black.
[11:21] <Randomskk> m1x10: don't use IE basically
[11:21] <Randomskk> jonsowman: seems so
[11:21] <m1x10> Randomskk: internet cafe :(
[11:21] <Randomskk> I is easy isn't it?
[11:22] <jonsowman> doing it atm
[11:22] <Randomskk> bd³/12 or something
[11:23] <jonsowman> what were our values for b, d, W and L?
[11:23] <Randomskk> oh, they're in my book
[11:23] <Randomskk> sec
[11:23] <Randomskk> think L is 60mm
[11:23] <Randomskk> don't you know W
[11:24] <jonsowman> 9g?
[11:24] <jonsowman> *9.81
[11:24] <Randomskk> yes
[11:24] <Randomskk> 80mm wide
[11:25] <Randomskk> you haven't written down a thickness but another piece was 1.1mm ish
[11:25] <jonsowman> ok
[11:25] <jonsowman> ta
[11:27] <jonsowman> 460Mpa
[11:27] <jonsowman> MPa
[11:27] <Randomskk> so that's like
[11:27] <Randomskk> pretty meh
[11:27] <jonsowman> yes
[11:27] <jonsowman> very meh
[11:30] <eroomde> Randomskk: how did you do that superscript 3?
[11:30] <Randomskk> alt gr + 3
[11:32] <eroomde> lucky me, i don't have one on this mbp
[11:32] <Randomskk> I think it's the linux UK keymap
[11:32] <Randomskk> I can also ¹²³ ½ ¾
[11:32] <eroomde> yep, there's one on my kinesis freestyle
[11:33] <eroomde> but i'm not logged into irc on that machine
[11:33] <Randomskk> also altgr+m is mu µ
[11:33] <Randomskk> æ is also readily available, it's good times
[11:33] <eroomde> need a decent way of managing private keys across different machines
[11:33] <eroomde> or consolidate my machines
[11:34] <Randomskk> generally I'd say gave a private key on each machine and add it to things it should be able to connect to (and/or run ssh servers on your own machines)
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[11:35] <eroomde> i think i'm going to dict osx anyhoo
[11:35] <eroomde> ditch
[11:35] <eroomde> it keeps biting me in the bum
[11:36] <Randomskk> that has generally been my experience in the times I've used it
[11:36] <Darkside> w00 got sondemonitor going
[11:36] <Darkside> and decoding from the latest meteorology sonde
[11:36] <Randomskk> that said the new ubuntu font is really nice
[11:36] <eroomde> Randomskk: the biggest cause of rage this summer was managing the airship (which runs arch linux on a pc104 board) remotely
[11:37] <eroomde> and having this crazy crazy bug with versions of data files
[11:37] <eroomde> the root of the cause was that the osx filesystem (was running git and pushing to the blimp) doesn't do case seneitive whereas linux does
[11:38] <Randomskk> ah
[11:38] <eroomde> so config.txt and Config.txt are different things on the blimp and end *very* badly when i run sed scripts on them on my macbook
[11:39] <Randomskk> I can imagine
[11:39] <eroomde> i never thought they'd handle that differently, it caused me an entire night of agro before i went for a long walk and though 'no... it can't be as stupid as...'
[11:39] <eroomde> invariable it always is
[11:39] <eroomde> invariably*
[11:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: do you know anything about using the cued workshop for personal stuff? I wanna cut a bit of copper sheet I have on the guillotine
[11:42] <eroomde> it's fine
[11:42] <eroomde> it's open office hours
[11:42] <eroomde> the guy who runs it is called alistair ross
[11:42] <eroomde> big guy with a very powerful ginger mustache
[11:42] <Randomskk> I have been told variably that I can just rock up, that I can rock up but need supervision, that I can rock up but need training, that I can rock up 2 to 4:30, and that I need to tell them a few days in advance
[11:43] <eroomde> he's very friendly and helpful but can be intimidating, if you see what i mean
[11:43] <eroomde> just be very polite and clear up very thoroughly after yourself and within no time you'll be on his list of trustable, likeable people
[11:44] <Randomskk> excellent, so just head up there sometime in the day and start using the machine, or..?
[11:44] <eroomde> i don't think you'll need training if you've done the sdp
[11:44] <eroomde> that involves guilotine usage
[11:44] <Randomskk> indeed
[11:44] <Randomskk> I've used it before
[11:44] <eroomde> just check with him first, I would. if he's around
[11:44] <Randomskk> plus did the workshop making a small air engine which involved more tools
[11:44] <Randomskk> okay
[11:45] <eroomde> and ask him questions if you need stuff. just be sure to rturn it. interaction builds the trust faster than natural osmosis
[11:45] <eroomde> ah ok, yeah you'll be fine in there then
[11:45] <eroomde> the thing about the workshop, especially the machine tools, is that tools go missing, so all the good stuff is all there, but you have to ask for it
[11:46] <eroomde> so if you ever want to do some turning, don't bother with the gnarled bits of crap lying around, go and actually ask for the tool that you want
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[11:47] <Randomskk> cool, thanks
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[11:51] <jcoxon> Morning
[11:51] <jonsowman> morning jcoxon
[11:52] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[11:55] <jcoxon> Cool about the launch on Monday
[11:58] <jonsowman> how is saturday looking jcoxon?
[11:59] <jcoxon> Umm a little early still
[12:00] <jonsowman> yea, I meant payload ready?
[12:00] <jcoxon> Working on a float predictor for it on habhub
[12:00] <jonsowman> :)
[12:00] <jonsowman> oh yes
[12:00] <jcoxon> Oh pretty much
[12:00] <jonsowman> cool
[12:01] <jcoxon> Hardware all done and the software is also done
[12:01] <jcoxon> Could do more freezer testing
[12:01] <NigeySWales> hi jcoxon
[12:01] <NigeySWales> hey jon
[12:01] <jonsowman> hi NigeySWales
[12:01] <jonsowman> how's things
[12:02] <jcoxon> And need to construct the antenna
[12:02] <NigeySWales> not to bad, had a right arse of a morning, my debit card has died :( lol
[12:02] <jcoxon> Aiming to be all done on weds
[12:02] <jonsowman> :(
[12:02] <GW8RAK> Morning all. A quick question about the RTTY downlink if I may.
[12:02] <jonsowman> go for it
[12:03] <GW8RAK> Am I correct in thinking that the RTTY downlink is 8 bit ASCII with no start/stop bits, etc?
[12:03] <jonsowman> it's up to you really
[12:03] <jonsowman> people normally use 1.5 or 2 stop bits
[12:03] <eroomde> the sotware can accomodate most flavours of bits, syncs, stops and so on
[12:03] <jonsowman> and both ascii-7 and ascii-8 are used
[12:04] <GW8RAK> Bugger, bugger bugger. Someone kick me hard
[12:04] <jonsowman> so yea, use what you like basically
[12:04] <GW8RAK> I've been thinking generating the dowlink signal so much that I've lost sight of what I'm trying to do.
[12:04] <GW8RAK> about generating.
[12:05] <GW8RAK> Can I use 8,n,1 format?
[12:05] <jonsowman> indeed you can
[12:05] <DanielRichman> you do need a start bit as well
[12:06] <NigeySWales> oo i recieved my arduino this morning :D
[12:06] <DanielRichman> GW8RAK: I'd reccomend 8n2
[12:07] <GW8RAK> Thanks for clearing that one up. Problem solved on the stop bits. Will have to look at a start bit.
[12:07] <DanielRichman> timing errors on whatever MCU you're using + the fact that fldigi isn't perfect makes 8n2 sometimes easier to do
[12:07] <GW8RAK> Why 8n2?
[12:07] <GW8RAK> Timing errors are what I've been trying to work around
[12:08] <DanielRichman> I don't think 1 stop bit is enough for fldigi to re-sync if you have some timing errors
[12:08] <DanielRichman> but just try it, I guess
[12:09] <GW8RAK> Okay. I hope to have the code sorted this weekend. The only problem I see is the start bit. The Picaxe has serial comms as standard, but they are 8n1
[12:09] <DanielRichman> that would include a start bit, no?
[12:09] <Randomskk> picaxe serial comms are pretty dire last I tried them
[12:10] <DanielRichman> all serial comms does, aiui
[12:10] <DanielRichman> *do
[12:10] <Randomskk> all software generated timing
[12:10] <DanielRichman> :(
[12:10] <Randomskk> bitbanging IOs. but hey
[12:10] <Randomskk> maybe it can do hardware too now
[12:11] <Randomskk> presumably you weren't around last night when someone else considered using picaxe :P
[12:11] <Randomskk> http://pastie.org/private/mrpkl2dmmq6iyoyz3vkqyw
[12:12] <jcoxon> Eroomde, you around for launch next weekend? And the pub this week?
[12:12] <NigeySWales> he went back to the original arduino idea lol
[12:18] <eroomde> jcoxon: no and yes
[12:18] <eroomde> sweden on friay
[12:19] <GW8RAK> All noted on the Picaxe not being ideal, but BASIC is what I know. The C+ on the Arduino would require a big learning curve. I'm sure I can grab other peoples code, but I was hoping to work it out myself.
[12:23] <jcoxon> Oh yeah forgot about that, free everynight but tues
[12:24] <GW8RAK> Jonsowman - I've seen the code from your APEX II launch. I can see that you set it up for 50 baud output which I can do. You then set the mode as %110 which I don't understand. I wonder if you can remember what that does?
[12:25] <jonsowman> I wrote exactly 0% of that code
[12:25] <jonsowman> but we alternated between 50 and 300 baud
[12:25] <jonsowman> potentially it's that?
[12:25] <jonsowman> I haven't used a picaxe for so long
[12:26] <jonsowman> let me have a look...
[12:27] <jonsowman> oh..
[12:27] <jonsowman> that mode thing
[12:27] <GW8RAK> Thanks for any help. I appreciate it's a long time ago. Sorry to be a pain, but this is the last bit I'm stuck on.
[12:28] <jonsowman> %110 means invert input, invert output, don't background receive
[12:28] <jonsowman> GW8RAK: http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/picaxe_manual2.pdf
[12:28] <jonsowman> see pages 92 and 93
[12:29] <GW8RAK> Thanks. Just looking at them now. I find that all the data is in the manual, but not everything is explicitly stated. I can see what's happening now.
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[12:29] <jonsowman> OK
[12:29] <jonsowman> Matt_soton on here is the person to ask
[12:29] <jonsowman> give him a shout if you're stuck
[12:30] <Matt_soton> hello
[12:30] <jonsowman> yo
[12:30] <jonsowman> read scrollback :)
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[12:32] <GW8RAK> jonsowman: reading some of the other Apex II files, did you use a NTX2 as the TX please?
[12:32] <jonsowman> no
[12:32] <jonsowman> NiM2
[12:33] <jonsowman> it's just a transceiver version
[12:33] <jonsowman> the transmit stage is just an NTX2 afaik
[12:33] <GW8RAK> Okay, but the serial output still needed to be split between two pins to modulate it?
[12:33] <jonsowman> oh yes, it's exactly the same in that respect
[12:34] <Matt_soton> our payload only used one pin from the pic
[12:34] <jcoxon> Might have missed something but using serial rather than bitbashing?
[12:34] <GW8RAK> Okay, I'll have a look at the code and see if I can see how you did that.
[12:35] <Randomskk> jcoxon: picaxe serial is bitbanged anyway
[12:35] <Randomskk> so can do 50 baud as needed
[12:35] <Randomskk> aiui
[12:35] <Matt_soton> the picaxe used hardware serial out on one pin, which produced the two 'tones' with a resistor netowork
[12:35] <Randomskk> its hardware serial will do 50 baud?
[12:35] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yes
[12:35] <GW8RAK> Matt_soton. Can you explain please?
[12:36] <Matt_soton> can u open eagle files?
[12:36] <GW8RAK> Don't think so
[12:36] <Matt_soton> ok just a mo...
[12:37] <Randomskk> jonsowman: serout or sertxd?
[12:37] <GW8RAK> Do you bias the output with say 1V as a low state and when the pin goes high, it is (1 + pin level)Volts?
[12:37] <jonsowman> hserout iirc
[12:37] <GW8RAK> Yes, hsersetup allows custom rates.
[12:38] <Randomskk> I see
[12:38] <jonsowman> Randomskk: these are the new picaxes that have proper hardware serial
[12:38] <Matt_soton> http://balloon.hexoc.com/media/apextech.pdf see page 7
[12:38] <Randomskk> it appears to only go down to 300 baud?
[12:38] <jonsowman> ?
[12:38] <Randomskk> oh, I see, you can set any timer you want
[12:38] <Randomskk> fair enough
[12:39] <Randomskk> 'M' parts :o
[12:39] <jonsowman> M2 as well I think
[12:39] <jonsowman> 8Ms have been around forever
[12:40] <Randomskk> true
[12:40] <Randomskk> they are doing surface mount pics now?
[12:40] <jonsowman> have been for ages
[12:40] <Randomskk> fcvo ages >.>
[12:40] <jonsowman> few years at least
[12:40] <GW8RAK> Matt_soton: thanks for that. I've got it now.
[12:40] <Matt_soton> ok :)
[12:40] <jonsowman> Randomskk: lunch?
[12:41] <Randomskk> last time I looked at picaxes would have been... 2007
[12:41] <Randomskk> so fair enough I guess
[12:41] <Randomskk> they were worse then >.>
[12:41] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:42] <GW8RAK> But with that what I've learnt this morning, it doesn't sound as if a Picaxe is ill suited to the project. Or is that just my lack of programming knowledge showing through?
[12:42] <Randomskk> oh, they certainly work and can perform just fine
[12:42] <jonsowman> they are capable of doing it, as we proved with Apex II
[12:42] <Randomskk> look at apex 2
[12:42] <jonsowman> :\
[12:43] <jonsowman> we're not the same person, honest
[12:43] <Randomskk> hivemind >_>
[12:43] <jonsowman> lol
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[12:46] <GW8RAK> Matt_soton: Apex II also has an In Modem. Was this for an uplink?
[12:46] <Matt_soton> yep
[12:47] <Randomskk> brb nom
[12:48] <GW8RAK> What did you uplink?
[12:49] <Matt_soton> cutdown was the main reason
[12:49] <Matt_soton> it also had ping to test
[12:49] <Matt_soton> reset /take images were the others
[12:53] <GW8RAK> Thanks Matt_soton. Much appreciated. I think I've just about got it all sorted now.
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[12:58] <eroomde> jcoxon: sorry was away. yep lets' do a night next week !tuesday
[12:58] <eroomde> i'll use it as an excuse to try and finish up the layout for the balloon neck flight computer
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[13:02] <jcoxon> Oh forgot about that
[13:03] <eroomde> me too but i got given an fsa03 from the stash in the lab
[13:03] <eroomde> so in a ready-steady-cook style i thought i'd knock it up with the ingredients i have
[13:03] <jcoxon> I've got 2 rfbees
[13:03] <jcoxon> Might be useful
[13:05] <jcoxon> 10mw 868mhz with built in atmega 168
[13:05] <eroomde> oh nice
[13:05] <eroomde> how much access to the 168 do you get?
[13:05] <jcoxon> Full
[13:06] <jcoxon> Arduino bootloader currently
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[13:10] <eroomde> jcoxon: that's nice
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[13:14] <jcoxon> Shall we say weds?
[13:15] <jcoxon> I was thinking we could do intra balloon payload next work
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to compare dispersions of balloons launched close together with identical balloons and lifts.
[13:16] <jcoxon> Network*
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> But that would require a _really_ cheap /light payload, or lots of funding.
[13:18] <eroomde> yeah a network like that would be fun
[13:18] <eroomde> LOS!
[13:18] <eroomde> i'll make the next payload rfbee compatible
[13:18] <eroomde> neck*
[13:20] <jcoxon> Cool
[13:20] <jcoxon> Right food bbl
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[13:21] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: you could build a very lightweight payload and put it on a 350g balloon
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull#High_Altitude_Research_Program
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Alternatives to balloons.
[13:32] <Darkside> they what
[13:32] <Darkside> awesome
[13:33] <Darkside> need to convince terry to get a massive gun from somewhere
[13:34] <Darkside> The cost of a launch was about $5,000
[13:34] <Darkside> maybe not
[13:36] <Darkside> also if you work on it you get assassinated by mossad
[13:38] <fsphil> GW8RAK, just going through the scrollback - I can verify that 1 stop bit is unreliable, I had to use >= 1.5
[13:41] <GW8RAK> fsphil: thanks for the info. I'll have a look at that. I need to see what Apex II used, (I think it was just 1 stop bit). I'll try the simple way first and then look at bit banging.
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[13:44] <Randomskk> <jonsowman> yes we used one stop bit on Apex II
[14:11] <Laurenceb> http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/15056/1288565285/telnet.jpg
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[14:20] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/board/10242399
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[14:23] <Laurenceb> lol
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[14:33] <Laurenceb> what the hell.. octave seems to define fft at exp(i*2pi*k*n/N)
[14:33] <Laurenceb> not exp(-i*2pi*k*n/N)
[14:34] <Laurenceb> can anyone check this for me?
[14:35] <Laurenceb> or maybe i misunderstood the output ordering
[14:41] <Laurenceb> nah - positive freuqnecies should appear in the lower half of the output vector, octave seems to interpret it the other way round :S
[14:43] <Darkside> haha that always screwed with my head in MATLAB
[14:44] <Darkside> i oriinally thought it was going from -fs/2 to fs/2
[14:44] <Darkside> so 0 was in the middle of the array
[14:44] <Darkside> but nah
[14:44] <Laurenceb> http://www.katjaas.nl/FFToutput/FFTout0.gif
[14:44] <Laurenceb> it should look like that
[14:45] <Laurenceb> octave seems to have -ive and +ive reversed
[14:45] <Darkside> heh
[14:45] <Darkside> dunno
[14:45] <Darkside> i never care about negative frequencies
[14:45] <Darkside> not in what i've been using FFTs for anyway
[14:45] <Darkside> (which isnt migh)
[14:45] <Darkside> much*
[14:46] <Darkside> anyway, sleep
[14:46] <Darkside> meant to be gliding tomorrow...
[14:47] <Laurenceb> cool
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[15:32] <DanielRichman> it's that time again
[15:32] Action: DanielRichman is building a 434mhz 1/4 wave grndplane antenna
[15:32] <NigeySWales> dam laptop :@
[15:32] <DanielRichman> I've got some crazy tough 16SWG (1.6mm) copper wire (tinned) lying around that I would use
[15:33] <NigeySWales> i need to be banned from maplins for spending way to much money there :(
[15:33] <DanielRichman> However am worried about stabbing things. I saw some pics where the CUSF payload antenna elements are encased in foam tube?
[15:34] <DanielRichman> would it be OK inside one of those?
[15:34] <NigeySWales> foam tube? like the stuff you wrap round pipes?
[15:35] <DanielRichman> I think so
[15:35] <NigeySWales> handy trick
[15:36] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: yea that'll be fine
[15:36] <jonsowman> or what we did on Apex - a large ball of gaffa tape
[15:36] <jonsowman> anything to avoid the "spears of death"
[15:37] <NigeySWales> hi jon
[15:38] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: yeah the a1 antenna was a bit flimzy but I reckon safe. I could kill a few small animals with this wire
[15:38] <fsphil> I'd love to know what the little antenna on the FT-790 is made of, it's very flexible
[15:40] <juxta> DanielRichman, i use braided steel cable that's flexible enough not to poke anything, but stiff enough to hold its own shape
[15:40] <juxta> the kind of stuff that brake cables on pushbikes are made of
[15:41] <DanielRichman> I see. 16.5cm elements ?
[15:41] <juxta> yeah
[15:41] <juxta> little longer for the ground radials
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[15:41] <juxta> I mean the SWR is going to be pretty shocking anyway, i've never actually bothered to measure
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[15:44] <fsphil> not a bad idea
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[15:59] <eroomde> we've used piano wire for extactly the same reason
[15:59] <eroomde> nice and springy
[16:00] <eroomde> orange ping-pong balls at the ends to minimise poking
[16:03] <NigeySWales> hey eroomde
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[16:51] <DanielRichman> http://picasaweb.google.com/danieljonathanrichman/201009# two antenna pics
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[17:07] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
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[17:10] <DanielRichman> http://picasaweb.google.com/danieljonathanrichman/201009#5536484022997913746
[17:11] <Laurenceb> which radiometrix is that?
[17:11] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: nice :) that must execute a bit faster than the python version
[17:11] <DanielRichman> it's the NiM2
[17:11] <DanielRichman> transceiver
[17:11] <Laurenceb> DanielRichman: it takes <<1% of my cpu
[17:12] <DanielRichman> if ( system("mkfifo stream.wav") < 0) <==> mkfifo("stream.wav", 0644)
[17:12] <Laurenceb> oh cool, planning on an uplink?
[17:12] <DanielRichman> yeah :D
[17:13] <DanielRichman> and system("rm -f stream.wav") <==> unlink("stream.wav")
[17:13] <Laurenceb> ok, thanks
[17:13] <DanielRichman> you'd need to man 3 mkfifo to get the function's manpage rather than the command
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[17:13] <DanielRichman> and man 2 unlink
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[17:14] <DanielRichman> but looks very nice :)
[17:14] <Laurenceb> clk drift is slightly annoying - seems to be fine if you keep fingers etc away from the xtal
[17:14] <Laurenceb> the alu enclosure should help a lot
[17:15] <Laurenceb> and if i get dcf77 or gps based pll working itll be insanely good
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/board/10240388
[17:21] <Laurenceb> http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/80591/1288890272/thumb.grenade1.jpg
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[17:26] <SpeedEvil> I saw that too. :)
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[17:43] <futurity> Hi Everyone, did James launch earlier today?
[17:44] <Laurenceb> no
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[18:08] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:08] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@lister.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk | XABEN launch 1500GMT on 08/11/10 from Churchill College Cambridge
[18:09] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:09] <NigeySWales> anyone know if a solid tx light on the arduino is a bad thing? :|
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[18:09] <jonsowman> NigeySWales: is it really solid?
[18:09] <jonsowman> or just flashing _really_ fast?
[18:09] <NigeySWales> yups
[18:09] <NigeySWales> solid
[18:10] <jonsowman> hmm
[18:10] <jonsowman> never seen that
[18:10] <NigeySWales> and the blink sketch i sent isnt running
[18:10] <jonsowman> does flashing a new program work?
[18:11] <NigeySWales> trying now, getting some java errors to, i think this ver of the ide plus ubuntu 10.10 are not getting along :|
[18:14] <jonsowman> oh dear
[18:15] <NigeySWales> yup looks like its somehow locked up the board :s
[18:15] <jonsowman> power cycle?
[18:15] <Laurenceb> might have overwritten the bootloader
[18:15] <NigeySWales> same issue, power light comes on, l13 flashes twice, solid tx
[18:15] <Laurenceb> theres a bootloader lock bit.. not sure if thats set on arduino
[18:15] <Laurenceb> its best to have it set or a bootloader can be overwritten
[18:16] <Laurenceb> by itself
[18:16] <NigeySWales> oh
[18:16] <DanielRichman> You can't overwrite the bootloader when you program the arduino through teh USB cable
[18:16] <NigeySWales> ahh good, i havent bricked the bootloader then lol
[18:18] <Laurenceb> if the bootloader screws up it could happen
[18:18] <Laurenceb> bbl
[18:18] <DanielRichman> Iirc the arduino has the lock bits set
[18:18] <NigeySWales> ill try it on windows, might just be ubuntu playing up, i dont see the tty in /var/lock either
[18:18] <DanielRichman> on linux you can use avrdude + avr-gcc
[18:39] <NigeySWales> sorry bk, its fine on windows
[18:40] <NigeySWales> was able to get com3, and upload the blink sketch, must be a ubuntu issue, the ide was lagging like mad to
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[19:18] <NigeySWales> woring in linux again now, how odd :/
[19:18] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:18] <jonsowman> well at least it's working :)
[19:19] <NigeySWales> yup, hey jon do you know how to get the hardware monitor working? apparently the bootloader has a monitor that can display stats if you connect via 115000 and type !!! but it doesnt seem to do anything
[19:22] <jonsowman> where did you hear that?
[19:23] <NigeySWales> http://www.avr-developers.com/bootloaderdocs/index.html
[19:23] <NigeySWales> and looking in the bootloaders dir of ver 00-21 the new bootloader is already there
[19:26] <jonsowman> I think that is only in this guy's custom bootloader
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[19:27] <jonsowman> I'm not entirely sure though
[19:27] <NigeySWales> ahhh, as im so new to this you think its wise not to attempt installing it ?
[19:27] <jonsowman> do you really need it?
[19:27] <jonsowman> you can just get the program to print values of variables etc with Serial.print()
[19:28] <NigeySWales> ahh in that case no, i guess i just thought it was a nifty feature, perhaps jumping b4 walking
[19:28] <NigeySWales> hi jcoxon
[19:28] <jcoxon> hi NigeySWales
[19:28] <jonsowman> your mega might be running the stk500v1 proto
[19:28] <jonsowman> s/proto/bootloader/
[19:29] <jonsowman> I assume it's an atmega2560
[19:29] <jonsowman> ?
[19:29] <NigeySWales> yep, although there is only a stk500v2 dir
[19:29] <jonsowman> hmm
[19:39] <jcoxon> do we think its okay to stick the backup beacon on 434.650Mhz (even though there are repeaters
[19:41] <fsphil> isn't it the repeater output part of the pand?
[19:41] <fsphil> band too
[19:42] <fsphil> ah no it's inputs
[19:42] <fsphil> I suppose if there's no tone to activate them, should be fine
[19:43] <jonsowman> it'll be fine
[19:43] <DanielRichman> hams are used to 50hz noise
[19:43] <jcoxon> it'll be 10% duty cycle
[19:43] <jonsowman> the repeaters won't be activated unless you have a CTCSS tone
[19:43] <jcoxon> rather than our normal 100%
[19:44] <jonsowman> people fly on .650 all the time
[19:44] <jonsowman> it's never caused an issue
[19:44] <jonsowman> afaik anyway
[19:44] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:44] <jcoxon> it has
[19:45] <jonsowman> it has?
[19:45] <jcoxon> only once or twice
[19:45] <jcoxon> not from cambridge though
[19:45] <fsphil> here's all the repeaters with 434.650mhz input: http://www.ukrepeater.net/channels/rb2.htm
[19:45] <jcoxon> jonsowman, yeah a while back - a few grumpy hams making a fuss
[19:46] <jonsowman> oh I never knew
[19:46] <jcoxon> i do suggest people to get the .075 version if they can
[19:46] <jonsowman> fair enough really
[19:46] <jonsowman> makes sense
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[19:47] <jcoxon> also its cheaper direct from radiometrix rather than farnell
[19:47] <fsphil> jcoxon, the dds-60 arrived today. haven't tried it yet
[19:48] <jonsowman> especially when they give lots of edu discount
[19:48] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:48] <DanielRichman> jonsowman: :D
[19:49] <DanielRichman> function pointers, tasty.
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[19:58] <Laurenceb> ok this is weird
[19:58] <Laurenceb> ive got an avr thatsprogrammed to flash an led on bootup
[19:59] <Laurenceb> when i apply power it flashes, when i apply power with reset help low then i later set rset high it flashes
[19:59] <Laurenceb> if i take reset low whilst its running, no flash
[19:59] <Laurenceb> theres a bootloader on it...
[20:04] <Laurenceb> oh actually it might be the spi master mode ss pin state crazyness issue
[20:09] <Laurenceb> ignore my ramblings...
[20:09] <Laurenceb> anyone know a good place to buy glass fibre?
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[22:09] <Laurenceb> mfsk64 is pretty insane
[22:09] <Laurenceb> i can pull packets out that are virtually invisible on the waterfall
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[22:21] <eroomde> evening
[22:22] Action: eroomde is gently boozed
[22:22] <jonsowman> haha
[22:22] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[22:23] <eroomde> yo
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[22:57] <NigeySWales> do be doo
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[23:01] <NigeySWales> are resistors kinda standard?
[23:02] <Randomskk> well
[23:02] <Randomskk> like
[23:02] <Randomskk> what do you mean?
[23:02] <NigeySWales> well, doing some of the arduino tutorials tomorrow on a breadboard, and it says 10 x 220ohm resistors, but ive found 2 types, e3 and e12
[23:03] <Randomskk> E is a series of resistor value codes, and I guess 220 is in all of them
[23:03] <Randomskk> E12 has twelve values at various orders of magnitude
[23:03] <Randomskk> e.g. 1, 2.2, 4.7, some others
[23:03] <Randomskk> so you could get 1 ohm, 100 ohms, 10 thousand ohms, or 4.7 thousand ohms, etc etc
[23:04] <Randomskk> so long as it's 220 ohms that's fine
[23:04] <Randomskk> a bigger issue is whether it's in a form you can easily use, in other words has two wires sticking out the ends to go into a breadboard
[23:04] <Randomskk> and also how much power it can take - chunkier resistors are able to dissipate more heat
[23:04] <Randomskk> not likely to be a concern for you
[23:04] <Randomskk> basically: the ones you have found are probably okay
[23:04] <NigeySWales> aha, perfect explination, thanks! :D
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[23:05] <NigeySWales> now to find some potentiometers, yey! lol
[23:05] <NigeySWales> hey astr2001uk
[23:05] <astr2001uk> hey, do you ever leave this room?!
[23:06] <NigeySWales> nope, lol, if im not asking questions i'm absorbing the info flowing, im learning slowly :D
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[23:24] <iNatrium> It
[23:24] <iNatrium> Oy
[23:25] <NigeySWales> hi iNatrium
[23:25] <iNatrium> Yo NigeySWales
[23:25] <jonsowman> "iNatrium" - nice :P
[23:26] <iNatrium> Sup kids? :p
[23:26] <NigeySWales> shopping for potentiometers, fun fun
[23:27] <iNatrium> I can see the potential though
[23:27] <NigeySWales> haha nice!
[23:28] <iNatrium> NigeySWales: planning any launches?
[23:28] <NigeySWales> oo not for a while, im still learning the basics of the electronics at the moment
[23:28] <Randomskk> oh no, the pile of papers on my desk has gone beyond the height of the clock display
[23:28] <Randomskk> now I can't tell the time D:
[23:29] <NigeySWales> lol
[23:29] <Randomskk> well except that it is thus obviously work time
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[23:29] <iNatrium> Randomskk: just gotta work around the clock
[23:30] <Randomskk> haha you are on top form tonight
[23:30] <NigeySWales> lol
[23:30] <iNatrium> :p
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[23:44] <iNatrium> My work here is done, bbl
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[00:00] --- Sun Nov 7 2010