highaltitude.log.20101103

[00:03] <juxta> NigeySWales, it's pretty tricky to use it without a breakout of somekind, the connector undernearth is super tiny
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[00:04] <NigeySWales> ahh, i have big fingers too..lol
[00:04] <jonsowman> you can get a connector to flying leads or a pcb header for the connector
[00:04] <jonsowman> whichever you prefer
[00:04] <NigeySWales> brill i'll add that to the list then
[00:05] <jonsowman> having issues sourcing them at the moment
[00:05] <jonsowman> if you find any then let me know :)
[00:06] <NigeySWales> oh i will, im clueless with all the electronics, reading up on each part etc, just as well i have a friend whos going to be doing most of it, im assuming some kind of antenna is also needed for the module ?
[00:06] <Laurenceb> ive dead bugged it
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[00:10] <astr2001uk> hi guys. is there anywhere with plans/designs/code for arduino flight computers? I would like to track it via radio
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> Where are you?
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I guess UK
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> \have you looked at the wiki?
[00:11] <astr2001uk> yes, uk
[00:12] <NigeySWales> astevens,
[00:12] <NigeySWales> oops
[00:12] <NigeySWales> astr2001uk, snap, im doing the same thing, hunting parts etc .. lol
[00:12] <astr2001uk> ukhas? i have, but cant find anything for arduino, but i might be looking in the wrong place
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> I haven't come across explicit schematics.
[00:13] <astr2001uk> nigeyswales, hi!
[00:13] <astr2001uk> im from north wales...
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> It tends to be more active 4 hours ago here.
[00:13] <NigeySWales> hey :D same prob here no schematics as such, just parts and guesswork i think
[00:13] <NigeySWales> a fellow welshman to :D
[00:15] <astr2001uk> yup been searching the net for about 6 hours straight now for ballooning ideas/plans, then going off track a bit and looking up amateur satellites!
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> That's a bit more involved. :)
[00:16] <astr2001uk> yeah, very interesting though
[00:17] <NigeySWales> haha i think i'm going to struggle with a balloon let alone a satellite!
[00:17] <Laurenceb> Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code
[00:18] <Laurenceb> Give us this day our daily garlic pizza, and deliver us from showering, amen
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[00:18] <NigeySWales> lol Laurenceb !
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[01:12] <astr2001uk> hi does anyone have plans and code for an arduino based flight computer?
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[01:33] <Darkside> ardupilot
[01:33] <Darkside> ohhh
[01:33] <Darkside> nvm
[01:33] <Darkside> balloon flight computer :)
[01:44] <natrium42> ardulol
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[05:20] <Darkside> hmm
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[05:30] <Darkside> juxta:
[05:30] <Darkside> ping
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[05:40] <Darkside> hmm
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[08:28] <Darkside> hrmmm
[08:32] <earthshine> morning
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[08:36] <m1x10> hi
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[08:52] <earthshine> m1x10: how r u today ?
[08:55] <NigeySWales> morning all
[09:14] <GW8RAK> Morning
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[10:38] <m1x10> hey guys !
[10:39] <m1x10> do u know any online book with not many pages to print
[10:39] <m1x10> to have it for reading on my free times?
[10:39] <m1x10> on electronics I mean
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[10:41] <earthshine> what kind of electronics ?
[10:41] <m1x10> earthshine Im not sure
[10:41] <m1x10> propose something
[10:42] <m1x10> u know Im habing Im learning basic electronics
[10:47] <earthshine> Electronics based around the Arduino or just electronics ?
[10:50] <NigeySWales> hmm, are these arduino mega clone boards on ebay any good, or best to order the "real" thing ?
[10:51] <earthshine> they have been known to have dodgy rectifiers in them
[10:51] <earthshine> so you plug them into a PSU and they explode
[10:52] <earthshine> i've stopped selling clones due to the amount of complaints
[10:52] <NigeySWales> oh dam, i think ill buy an original then lol .. you sell the original boards?
[10:53] <earthshine> yep
[10:53] <Gnea> m1x10: I'm sure google has quite a few
[10:53] <NigeySWales> where do i order? :D
[10:53] <earthshine> www.earthshineelectronics.com
[10:53] <earthshine> :)
[10:53] <NigeySWales> awsome :D
[10:54] <Gnea> earthshine: oh sweet. do you sell anything other than arduino?
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/ - diodes - what can't they do?
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[10:55] Action: Gnea notes 2 others
[10:56] <earthshine> Gnea: www.earthshineelectronics.com
[10:56] <Gnea> earthshine: already there
[10:56] <Gnea> so, the answer is 'no'
[10:56] Action: Gnea bookmarks it anyway
[10:57] <NigeySWales> aww starter kit is on backorder :(
[10:58] <earthshine> What do you mean the answer is no? I have resistors, diodes, LEDs, LCD, OLED displays, temp sensors, PIR sensors, blah, blah, blah: None of those are Arduinos
[10:59] <NigeySWales> lol
[10:59] <Gnea> I shall restate my question :)
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[10:59] <m1x10> earthshine: dunno
[10:59] <m1x10> if arduino book is just for arduino, no
[10:59] <m1x10> if its around mcu, yes
[11:00] <earthshine> m1x10: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596153755
[11:00] <Gnea> do you sell any other programmable chips other than the arduino, or do you intend to carry any other types, like PICs, etc? I realize that you're all about open-source (two-thumbs up, btw).
[11:01] <earthshine> I used to stock PICs but sales were very slow so I stopped
[11:01] <Gnea> ah
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[11:18] <GW8RAK> earthshine - what is an arduino shield in laymans terms please? Just been looking at your website.
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> It's plugin 'cards'
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> that do shit
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> like on a PC
[11:19] <GW8RAK> I'm know I'm getting older on Friday, but is shit good or bad?
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> stuff
[11:20] <GW8RAK> I was wondering why "shields" not add-ons or some other terminology? Or am I just thinking too deeply.
[11:20] <GW8RAK> ?
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> Stupid name
[11:30] <NigeySWales> ive taken the plunge, order my arduino mega :D
[11:30] <NigeySWales> ordered*
[11:31] <m1x10> yea SpeedEvil is right
[11:31] <m1x10> stupid name
[11:31] <m1x10> when i started with electronics
[11:31] <m1x10> i was confused too much with that word
[11:32] <NigeySWales> so basically shields = expansion boards?
[11:32] <m1x10> yeah
[11:32] <GW8RAK> When I started with electronics, discrete transistors were considered cool!
[11:32] <m1x10> extra things
[11:32] <m1x10> addonss
[11:32] <NigeySWales> noted, im confused enough as it is hehe
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[11:45] <earthshine> GW8RAK: A shield is an add-on - they call it sheild for god knows what reason
[11:53] <GW8RAK> I wasn't sure if there was some logic to it.
[11:53] <GW8RAK> All understood.
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[12:24] <Laurenceb_> can anyone suggest a lossless audio compressor for *nix?
[12:25] <Darkside> flac
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> wonder if you could flac a wav stream
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[12:34] <earthshine> definitely flac
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[12:40] <Laurenceb_> http://flac.sourceforge.net/api/group__flac__stream__encoder.html
[12:40] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[12:40] <Laurenceb_> im thinking for streaming to a central server
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[12:49] <astr2001uk> hi, does anyone know of where i can find plans and code for a simple arduino based flight computer for tracking?
[12:52] <earthshine> tracking what?
[12:53] <Darkside> astr2001uk: its not hard to make your own
[12:53] <Darkside> especially on the arduino
[12:53] <astr2001uk> the only problem i think i might encouter would be coding
[12:53] <Darkside> the hardest parts are the RTTY libraries and stuff
[12:53] <Darkside> haha
[12:53] <Darkside> well yes, being able to code helps..
[12:53] <earthshine> the hardware is relatively easy - the code is the hardest to get right
[12:53] <astr2001uk> yes! im fine with electronics and radio, but coding is difficult for me
[12:54] <Darkside> keep it simple :P
[12:54] <Darkside> very simple
[12:54] <Darkside> and ABSTRACT
[12:54] <astr2001uk> ok thanks, i guess ill just have to dive in, buy the components and give it a shot
[12:55] <NigeySWales> hey astr2001uk :)
[12:55] <astr2001uk> hey!
[12:56] <NigeySWales> i found this, might give you an idea for the code..
[12:56] <NigeySWales> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=153
[12:57] <Darkside> thats oooooooold code >_>
[12:57] <earthshine> That's juxta's project. Nicely documented.
[12:57] <astr2001uk> yes, i did stumble accross that last night!
[12:57] <earthshine> Old but it works.
[12:57] <Darkside> i can give you a link to my projects code
[12:57] <NigeySWales> yup , but for a beginner to code, a good starting point
[12:57] <Darkside> its not for the arduino, but its similar
[12:57] <earthshine> is it C ?
[12:58] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/xmega-qrp/source/browse/trunk/XMega_Code/XMega_QRP.c
[12:58] <juxta> hmm oh dear yes that is old
[12:58] <Darkside> a mix of C and C++
[12:58] <earthshine> Then it can be easily adapted to teh Arduino
[12:58] <Darkside> and i'm using arduino libraries that i've ported across
[12:58] <NigeySWales> hey juxta very well documented project btw
[12:58] <juxta> thanks NigeySWales :)
[12:59] <Darkside> also note that that code is a mess of debugging stuff, and blocks of code that are unused
[12:59] <NigeySWales> tnx Darkside i'll take a look, any help on the code side is better than none :D
[12:59] <Darkside> also code that needs to be pushed into other libraries...
[12:59] <Darkside> since my main.c is getting cluttered
[13:00] <NigeySWales> luckily a friend that programs java and c has offered to help, but hes clueless with electronics, so shall be fun
[13:00] <earthshine> Well you'll get plenty of help from the guys in this channel
[13:01] <Darkside> juxta: it would make n awesome final year project, if you can convince a lecturer :P
[13:01] <NigeySWales> it appears so, never been in such a friendly helpful channel is 18 years of ircing! .. btw that was very quick order processing, thank you :)
[13:01] <Darkside> *cough* UNI *cough*
[13:02] <juxta> yeah thats the hope eventually :)
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[13:07] <Laurenceb_> is the launch on saturday still going ahead?
[13:08] <Darkside> next saturday (or sunday)
[13:08] <Darkside> 13th or 14th
[13:08] <Darkside> dammit i still won't have my license by then
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> ah ok
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> - jcoxons launch
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> it looks too windy
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[13:10] <Darkside> ahh
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> do you know Paul Verhage, the founder of the "Poorman's space program"?
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> are the components he offers for sale worth it?
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nearsys.com/catalog/index.htm
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[13:17] <Laurenceb_> looks _very_ basic
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[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> yes and he sells kits one has to assemble
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[13:22] <earthshine> Who has been using the XMOS in their project ?
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[17:18] Action: NigeySWales drops a pin
[17:18] <NigeySWales> thats better
[17:19] <jonsowman> hehe
[17:19] <jonsowman> is quite quiet in here
[17:19] <NigeySWales> very, i was scared of waking people with more silly Q;'s .. lol
[17:19] <jonsowman> oh go for it
[17:19] <NigeySWales> well ive been looking everywhere but i cant seem to find exactly what i need to connect the ntx2 to the arduino
[17:20] <Randomskk> generally just ask, usually people are waiting around but not speaking, if you ask a question you may still get an answer :P
[17:20] <jonsowman> nobody's talking because nobody is talking
[17:20] <Randomskk> basically there are like loads of ways of connecting it
[17:20] <Randomskk> some easier than others
[17:20] <NigeySWales> oh eck
[17:20] <Randomskk> some require more parts than others
[17:20] <NigeySWales> simple way for a newbie? :|
[17:20] <jonsowman> where's that schematic of rjh's?
[17:20] <jonsowman> on one of the many wikis
[17:21] <jonsowman> oh
[17:21] <jonsowman> here
[17:21] <jonsowman> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
[17:21] <NigeySWales> ah brill let me check it out
[17:21] <jonsowman> that's one way of doing it; works perfectly well so give that a try :)
[17:22] <NigeySWales> looks ideal, i was on that wiki to, no idea how i missed it.
[17:24] <NigeySWales> ahh he's used a mini pro, i ordered the mega .. woops
[17:25] <jonsowman> doesn't make any difference
[17:25] <jonsowman> just use the correct pins
[17:26] <NigeySWales> oh, perfect, thanks jonsowman :D i feel awfully newbish lol
[17:26] <jonsowman> hehe no worries, everyone has to start somewhere
[17:27] <NigeySWales> yup, no doubt something will break, not work, but lessons learnt
[17:27] <jonsowman> just come back and ask if you're having issues
[17:27] <jonsowman> someone will be able to help
[17:27] <NigeySWales> oh i think i'll be hanging round for a while, this place is great
[17:28] <NigeySWales> i was going to ask about the GPS breakout board to, i see someone had some made and posted the files needed to do the same
[17:33] <DanielRichman> isn't rjh's resistor setup for 3v3 arduinos?
[17:33] <DanielRichman> you can do it with one resistor of the right value, in theory, and that's been tested but not yet flown.
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[17:33] <NigeySWales> o, forgot the mega is 5v right ?
[17:36] <DanielRichman> um. IDK which one is which
[17:37] <jonsowman> oh, good point DanielRichman
[17:37] <jonsowman> not sure what voltage the mega is
[17:39] <NigeySWales> yup 5v
[17:40] <NigeySWales> although the specsheet does say ... #
[17:40] <NigeySWales> # 3V3. A 3.3 volt supply generated by the on-board regulator. Maximum current draw is 50 mA.
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[17:49] <DanielRichman> the point is that the IO pins will be 5V when set to HIGH and 0V LOW
[17:49] <DanielRichman> which changes the voltage produced after rjh's resistor dividors
[17:50] <DanielRichman> ers.
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[17:52] <NigeySWales> ah, well i've literally just had a schematic sent from Tim that did the hohoho balloon and he said theyre specific for the 5v board so i think problem solved
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[17:53] <DanielRichman> yep that sounds good
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[18:06] <fsphil> the second harmonic of a 10khz square wave is 30khz yea?
[18:07] Nick change: DagoRed -> kd0mto
[18:08] <fsphil> hmm.. that question doesn't make sense
[18:11] <jonsowman> hehe no it doesnt
[18:11] <fsphil> there is no second harmonic
[18:11] <jonsowman> there is
[18:11] <jonsowman> sort of
[18:12] <jonsowman> i don't know how harmonics of square waves work
[18:12] <jonsowman> square waves are infinite sum of sines
[18:12] <jonsowman> so the first harmonic of a 10kHz sine would be 20kHz
[18:13] <jonsowman> the second harmonic would be 40kH\
[18:13] <jonsowman> *kHz
[18:13] <fsphil> isn't the wave itself the first harmonic?
[18:14] <jonsowman> if you like
[18:14] <fsphil> hehe
[18:14] <jonsowman> in which case the 2nd harmonic is 20, and the 3rd is 40
[18:14] <jonsowman> "fundamental" and "overtone x" for x >= 1 is slightly more clear
[18:15] <fsphil> yea
[18:15] <jonsowman> a square wave in itself has a large number of harmonics
[18:16] <jonsowman> in that it is composed of many frequencies
[18:16] <jonsowman> an infinite number, in fact
[18:16] <jonsowman> (in theory)
[18:17] Action: fsphil has much to learn :)
[18:17] <jonsowman> hehe
[18:18] <jonsowman> a square wave has harmonics at odd multiples of the fundamental
[18:18] <jonsowman> but they are harmonics that comprise the wave, as opposed to harmonics of a sinusoid in the sense you were talking
[18:19] <jonsowman> and then those harmonics are sinusoids so can have their own harmonics, so you get second order harmonics, at which point things get a bit messy
[18:19] <jonsowman> :)
[18:19] <fsphil> eep
[18:20] <fsphil> I was wondering because I'd an idea about doing rtty with an LED (like you did m1x10)
[18:20] <fsphil> with a square wave being put into the LED, I was wondering what kind of signal would be received
[18:20] <fsphil> oh not m1x10
[18:21] <fsphil> it was timbobel I think
[18:21] <jonsowman> that depends on many many things
[18:21] <jonsowman> if it's slow enough that the response of the LED and photodiode are negligible, then you should be okay
[18:21] <fsphil> the idea was if a sine wave was present, then fldigi could in theory decode it like any other rtty
[18:22] <jonsowman> if you could fourier decompose the square and then take only the fundamental, you'd get the fundamental sine and nothing else
[18:23] <fsphil> would a low pass filter be enough?
[18:23] <jonsowman> probably, you might need second or third order low pass though
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[18:49] <m1x10> Hi all
[18:49] <m1x10> some hours and I'm gone :(
[18:51] <fsphil> hopefully time will fly, and you'll have it all over and done with
[18:56] Action: Hibby saw fourier and got interested.
[18:57] <Hibby> ah, I see the context. Interesting idea. Wouldn't really be rtty as much as ltty
[18:57] <fsphil> hehe
[18:58] <fsphil> I wonder how sensitive it would be
[18:58] <Randomskk> to be honest though
[18:58] <Randomskk> put it through another layer
[18:58] <Randomskk> you are essentially transmitting a binary on or off
[18:58] <Randomskk> I don't know that I'd use fldigi though it could be hacked to do it
[18:58] <Randomskk> photodiode and a tone generator, generate one tone for off and another for on
[18:58] <Randomskk> it's not a continuously variable signal
[18:59] <Randomskk> just on or off
[18:59] <m1x10> fsphil: u said that for me?
[18:59] <fsphil> pwm between 10khz and 6.5khz, 50% duty
[18:59] <DanielRichman> why not photodiode -> uart?
[18:59] <fsphil> plug the light sensor into the sound card
[18:59] <Randomskk> uart is not as good as fldigi at decoding I imagine
[19:00] <fsphil> yea
[19:00] <Randomskk> given highly noisy signals
[19:00] <DanielRichman> it's not ... perfect
[19:00] <DanielRichman> perhaps photodiode -> adc + mean?
[19:02] <Hibby> anyone used an led as a photodiode? it's entirely possible - read an interesting report on it a while back
[19:04] <Randomskk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDTR0-qmVwc
[19:04] <Randomskk> ^me
[19:09] <sbasuita> Randomskk: this is very cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihIaNN9UBY
[19:09] <Randomskk> :D cheers
[19:09] <Randomskk> I did a lot of fun stuff back then
[19:09] <Randomskk> these days it seems like all I do is tedious maths
[19:10] <Randomskk> university is not all it's cracked up to be wrt free time
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[19:23] <m1x10> Well mates, I must close in a minute! Hope we talk again ! Keep the planet on peace!
[19:23] <fsphil> good luck!
[19:28] <m1x10> thank you fsphil
[19:28] <m1x10> bye all
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[22:55] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:57] <Laurenceb> still launching saturday?
[22:58] <jcoxon> unfortunately not
[22:58] <jcoxon> ground weather not great and flight path would be well in to europe
[22:58] <jcoxon> not too keen on crossing too many international borders
[22:59] <jcoxon> one is fine
[23:01] <Darkside> haha
[23:02] <Darkside> that must be interesting
[23:03] <jcoxon> well i've done it before
[23:03] <Darkside> 'reason for entering the country'
[23:03] <jcoxon> i can even get a notam for france
[23:03] <Darkside> 'science experiment'
[23:03] <jcoxon> and we've found some international agreement that does allow balloons to cross borders
[23:03] <Darkside> haha nice
[23:03] <jcoxon> but the flight path is just a bit too long
[23:04] <jcoxon> and i'm on call this week so it would be a rush to get things done
[23:04] <Darkside> cutdown?
[23:05] <jcoxon> ideally going for long duration
[23:06] <Darkside> ahh ok
[23:08] <fsphil> weather is a bit rubbish at the moment
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[23:09] <jcoxon> Darkside, we'll launch
[23:09] <jcoxon> don't worry
[23:09] <jcoxon> just soon
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[23:12] <Laurenceb> good luck when you do launch then
[23:12] <jcoxon> thanks Laurenceb - will keep you updated
[23:13] <russss> shuttle has weather problems too :/
[23:14] <jcoxon> just got an email from my dad asking what to do that his psion 3 has finally stopped working
[23:14] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:14] <fsphil> those where cool back in the day
[23:15] <jcoxon> i reckon they are still the best pdas
[23:15] <jcoxon> sure everything is fancy colour screen and all ways on internet
[23:15] <jcoxon> but psions were reliable and simple to use
[23:16] <fsphil> easy to read screen, I remember that - and fairly good sound
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Psion-series-3c-PDA-/170560501632?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_PDAsAccessories_PDAs_JN&hash=item27b632b780
[23:17] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i've suggested a psion revo off ebay
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah - nice stuff going away is annoying.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> I want 4:3 laptops
[23:18] <fsphil> without a silly glossy screen
[23:19] <Laurenceb> sandpaper
[23:21] <fsphil> drastic measures :)
[23:21] Action: Laurenceb is thinking about distributed listeners with audio submissions via a FLAC stream
[23:22] <Laurenceb> not sure how to combine at the server
[23:22] <Randomskk> I suggest maths
[23:22] <Laurenceb> guess you need frequency + phase + time shift
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Maximal likelyhood decider, fed from all the inputs.
[23:22] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:22] <Randomskk> have fun time syncing all streams
[23:23] <Laurenceb> yeah, theres less processing if you have a decoder for each channel
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> I suppose just rough time correction, then FFT all of them, and add the FFTs
[23:23] <Laurenceb> maybe..
[23:23] <Randomskk> also they are liable to be slightly differently tuned
[23:23] <Randomskk> so the same RF appears in different parts of the audio spectrum
[23:23] <Randomskk> depending on your distributed listeners, of course
[23:23] <Randomskk> not applicable to your sdr thing
[23:23] <Laurenceb> frequency + phase + time shift is probably best
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> hmm - yeah - simply adding FFTs will break in terms of frequency shift
[23:23] <Laurenceb> then run decoder on the combined auio
[23:24] <Laurenceb> have a running ensamble of the inputs
[23:24] <Laurenceb> and a phase frequency, delta time tracking lop for each audio source
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:24] <Laurenceb> tracking it to correlate best with the ensambple
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:25] <Laurenceb> would need to weight the inputs
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> I wonder about active VCO by the server
[23:25] <Laurenceb> do an ANC type algorythm to minimise output energy i guess
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> probably more complex than is worth it.
[23:25] <Laurenceb> i was thinking to make it so non SDR people could contribute
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:26] <Laurenceb> would be a lot of work but very cool
[23:26] <Laurenceb> of course if you had time synced sdr at each end its trivia
[23:26] <Laurenceb> *trivial
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> 100W 433 market transmitter. :)
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> 10ms/min
[23:28] <Laurenceb> another idea - encase VCXO in candle wax - high heat capacity and low conductivity
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Especially when freezing
[23:28] <Laurenceb> it shouldnt be molten
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[23:29] <Laurenceb> unless something is way too hot
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I wansn't being really serious.
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> I do have a radiosonde with a little oven
[23:29] <Laurenceb> market =?
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> a routed area on the PCB, with two teeny lands connecting it, and a polystyrene two-part box over it
[23:30] <Laurenceb> oh nvm, i thought you meant an in band reference source
[23:30] <Laurenceb> thats what i came up with for n-prize
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's a nice simple solution.
[23:31] <Laurenceb> the balloon platform is a reference so people can submit dopplers to a central server
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> For cheap hacks anyway
[23:31] <Laurenceb> and the rockoon position can be found
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> GPS discipline is clearly better.
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> but..
[23:32] <Laurenceb> im still not convinced on gps over dcf77
[23:33] <Laurenceb> think id have enough spare capacity on the avr to phase lock to dcf
[23:33] <Randomskk> depending on what you need, gps time should be very very good
[23:34] <Randomskk> it acts as a stratum 1 (or 0?) source for ntp for instance
[23:34] <Randomskk> dcf is a fantastic reference frequency as well as encoding time though
[23:35] <Laurenceb> exactly
[23:35] <Laurenceb> 77.5khz reference oscillator
[23:35] <Laurenceb> also cheap and ~no extra current
[23:35] <Laurenceb> and no need for a gps lock
[23:36] <Randomskk> needs an antenna that can receive it
[23:36] <Randomskk> they are a bit annoying
[23:36] <Randomskk> quite lf
[23:36] <Laurenceb> have you used it?
[23:36] <Randomskk> I tried and failed to do so homebrew style
[23:36] <Randomskk> couldn't get a usable signal
[23:36] <Randomskk> suspect antenna
[23:36] <Laurenceb> they need to be tuned
[23:37] <Randomskk> and ideally wrapped around a core
[23:37] <Laurenceb> i derived ~10uV P-P in the UK
[23:37] <Laurenceb> from one of the off the shelf ants
[23:37] <Randomskk> why not use msf?
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[23:37] <Laurenceb> its not got dsss
[23:37] <Randomskk> closer and a nicer frequency
[23:37] <Randomskk> ah
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[23:38] <Laurenceb> ant - i2c controlled vga - op amp bandpass + gain stage - avr adc
[23:38] <Laurenceb> was my plan
[23:38] <Laurenceb> but some of the attiny may work connected directly
[23:38] <Randomskk> seems reasonable
[23:38] <Laurenceb> with the 20x differential adc mode
[23:39] <Laurenceb> you get a few lsb signal
[23:39] <Laurenceb> did you use dcf77 for your nixie clock?
[23:40] <Randomskk> no. wanted to
[23:40] <Randomskk> instead it has no reference
[23:40] <Laurenceb> conrad sells mdules, theres also a uk site
[23:40] <Laurenceb> £6 iirc
[23:40] <Randomskk> ! man, was looking for something along those lines
[23:40] <Randomskk> couldn't find any modules at the time
[23:40] <Laurenceb> but they are amplitude based, no dsss
[23:40] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[23:40] <Randomskk> ah
[23:40] <Laurenceb> not bookmarked on here...
[23:40] <Randomskk> eh, it's a bit late for the nixie now though
[23:40] <Randomskk> don't worry about it
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - by GPS I meant an external timebase - DCF may be quite adequate.
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> I suppose if you could arrange the clock on the AVR to be a simple multiple of 77.5khz
[23:42] <Laurenceb> the absolute time from the DLL onto the DSSS may have a few hundered us jitter
[23:42] <Laurenceb> but the 77.5khz carrier if pll loced will be rock solid
[23:43] <Laurenceb> exactly you set it up for all multiples, with a vcxo
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> Or even a few Hz off I suppose
[23:43] <Laurenceb> share clocks between avr and cc1020
[23:43] <Randomskk> hah
[23:43] <Randomskk> so your many distributed AVRs including on balloon
[23:43] <Randomskk> would all be executing the same opcodes in sync
[23:43] <Randomskk> (well, assuming same start time)
[23:44] <Randomskk> pretty neat
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> But similar.
[23:44] <Laurenceb> well speed of light
[23:44] <Randomskk> true
[23:44] <Randomskk> not much you can do about that though
[23:44] <Randomskk> well, except to pre-sync them I guess
[23:45] <Laurenceb> theres some old german forum posts from the 90s where they made a dcf77 pll locked 10mhz reference
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:46] <Laurenceb> no micros, all descrete logic and analogue
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> I was looking way back at doing SDR with rugby
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> with a z80
[23:46] <Laurenceb> not its moved from rugby its down from 50kw to 15
[23:47] <Laurenceb> *now
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Diddn't know that.
[23:47] <Laurenceb> aiui dcf77 is strnger in most of the uk
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> budget?
[23:47] <Laurenceb> dont know
[23:47] <Darkside> oh god, discrete logic?
[23:47] <Darkside> WHT
[23:47] <Darkside> WHY
[23:48] <Darkside> oh wait
[23:48] <Laurenceb> funny fact - north korean sortwave comes out of the same Tx
[23:48] <Darkside> old stuff :)
[23:48] <Laurenceb> i dont know why but you never do with them
[23:49] <Laurenceb> presumably its streamed over ip to the Tx or something
[23:50] <Laurenceb> i hard that it was coming out of rugby for a while
[23:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php <-dcf77 receiver stuff
[00:00] --- Thu Nov 4 2010