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[00:03] <Darkside> oh cool
[00:03] <Darkside> could use them to reinforce my model glider
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[00:28] <Laurenceb> CF is dirt cheap now
[00:29] <Laurenceb> prob as cheap as glass fibre of you buy low quality from the right supplier
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[06:04] <Darkside> bah
[06:04] <Darkside> all my engineering toolkit is at uni
[06:04] <Darkside> so i can't play with these radiometrix modules
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[10:51] <jcoxon> morning all
[10:52] <Darkside> ohi
[10:56] <fsphil> morning
[10:57] Action: jcoxon has got a nice polystyrene box
[10:57] <jcoxon> very pleased
[11:00] <fsphil> hot wire job?
[11:00] <jcoxon> nope
[11:00] <jcoxon> actually box
[11:00] <jcoxon> http://www.ferribox.co.uk/moulded/moulded.htm
[11:00] <jcoxon> got a spare one of jgc (he is occasionally on here)
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[11:16] <fsphil> that is neat
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[11:21] <Darkside> heh i used something similar to that for mine
[11:21] <Darkside> i just cut the walls thinner
[11:28] <fsphil> how well does it cut? the stuff I'm using gets everywhere
[11:29] <Darkside> heh
[11:29] <Darkside> the stuff i was using cuts really well with a hot wire
[11:30] <fsphil> I so gotta make one of those
[11:30] <Darkside> pics somewhere
[11:30] <Darkside> hang on
[11:33] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/uKgOn.jpg
[11:35] <fsphil> ah, neat job with the cutter - how much current are you passing through that?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> I did a similar idea.
[11:36] <Darkside> fsphil: 12V, about 2A i think
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> But I used an old table, with a hole in it, and hooked up to the attic
[11:36] <Darkside> i forget now
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> worked well
[11:36] <fsphil> Nichrome wire?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> stainless in my case
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe just steel, I forget
[11:37] <Darkside> nichrome for that one
[11:37] <fsphil> yea I seen someone on instructables using guitar string
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Basically most sorts of non-copper wire that are reasonably strong work
[11:52] <juxta|console> i use nichrome
[11:52] <juxta|console> mine's setup like a jigsaw i suppose
[11:52] <Darkside> hey juxta|console
[11:52] <juxta|console> heya Darkside
[11:52] <Darkside> convince adrian to hook up his SDR-IQ to a dipole and set up access over the internet :D
[11:53] <juxta|console> what for?
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/board/10189909
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-related-but-not-really.
[11:54] <Darkside> juxta|console: for geneeral HF reception
[11:55] <shenki> for fun!
[11:55] <juxta|console> heh
[11:56] <Darkside> pretty much
[11:56] <Darkside> since my antenna is shit :P
[11:56] <Darkside> and his isn't
[11:56] <Darkside> and i can just listen from his SDR :P
[11:57] <Darkside> also so when i'm doing testing at uni, i can receive from somewhere else :P
[11:57] <Darkside> it just requires him to forward a port
[11:57] <Darkside> i'm getting a USRP in a few weeks too, i'm hoping to set up a HF antenna at uni and get the USRP hooked into a box that I can remote into
[12:04] <juxta|console> Darkside: i'll ask, but I think he'll be more inclined to if you get a callsign ;p
[12:04] <Darkside> hahahaha
[12:04] <Darkside> yes dammit
[12:04] <Darkside> i'm working on this
[12:04] <Darkside> after exams, there's about 5 of us who are going to run a workshop thingo where we go over the course, then take our exams
[12:04] <Darkside> i've got 2 lecturers extremely interested already
[12:05] <Darkside> we have one WIA assessor inside uni, just need to get another one in
[12:05] <Darkside> probably paul hoffman
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[14:04] <m1x10> hi all
[14:08] <fsphil> afternoon
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[14:19] <m1x10> I went to an semi-IT conference today
[14:20] <m1x10> They shows something neat
[14:20] <m1x10> but I didnt understand if they build it or just buy it and use it
[14:21] <m1x10> it was a black pin thing
[14:21] <m1x10> you attach it on a piece of paper
[14:21] <m1x10> and you use its "pen"
[14:21] <m1x10> you write something on the paper
[14:22] <m1x10> and that things appears to an application on the pc
[14:22] <m1x10> they digitalize the writing
[14:22] <m1x10> if i can say that word
[14:23] <fsphil> special paper?
[14:23] <m1x10> im not sure
[14:23] <m1x10> but the pen + pin + usb IR sensor was a kit
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[14:23] <m1x10> i think it was a normal paper
[14:24] <m1x10> those things exist in the market?
[14:25] <fsphil> never heard of it -- closest thing I know is the graphics tablet
[14:25] <m1x10> link?
[14:26] <fsphil> www.google.com :p
[14:26] <fsphil> brb, food!
[14:30] <m1x10> lol
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[15:05] <juxta> there are pens on the market that will digitize handwriting
[15:05] <juxta> you use paper which looks like regular paper, but it's covered in a unique small dot pattern, the pen tracks its location with a small optical sensor
[15:06] <juxta> i forget the brand name though
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[15:27] <Laurenceb> i wonder if you could use an imu in the pen for that
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[15:29] <SpeedEvil> I thought about that ages ago
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> back when MEMs accels had just come out
[15:29] <Laurenceb> prob too much drift, but itd help
[15:30] <Laurenceb> some small IR leds and cameras would be better
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> gyro perhaps most suitable.
[15:30] <Laurenceb> or ultrasound
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[15:31] <Laurenceb> anyone know if the launch is still going ahead next weekend?
[15:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/cm/research/NMR/cut_magnet.html <- interesting
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[15:34] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
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[15:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-build-a-thermoelectric-lamp/
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[16:59] <pretec> Hi
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[17:16] <SpeedEvil> hi
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[17:19] <m1x10> hi
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[18:13] <Zuph> Progress on a custom tracking interface! http://whitestarballoon.com/vis/vis.html
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[18:35] <m1x10> fsphil, what bootloader you got on 644?
[18:36] <fsphil> don't use any m1x10, my program is flashed onto the chip directly through the ISP header
[18:37] <m1x10> ok
[18:38] Action: m1x10 must learn not to use arduinos
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[18:41] <fsphil> you'll need a programmer, sparkfun have a few
[18:43] <Zuph> The AVR dragon is the best $50 an aspiring AVR developer can spend.
[18:48] <m1x10> I know we've done this discussion lots of time before
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[18:54] <jcoxon> evening
[18:56] <fsphil> gday
[18:56] <m1x10> hi
[18:58] <jcoxon> urgh work tomorrow
[18:59] <fsphil> yea know that feeling
[19:00] <jcoxon> need to crack this PID temp controller tonight
[19:00] <fsphil> are you getting it to heat up yet?
[19:01] <jcoxon> i'm on to the software bit yeah
[19:01] <jcoxon> though have run out of space on my atmega168 so need to switch to a 328
[19:02] <fsphil> ram or rom?
[19:02] <jcoxon> rom
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[19:06] <fsphil> can't wait to see what effect this will have on the frequency
[19:07] <jcoxon> i'm just worried it'll mess something up
[19:07] <fsphil> nah, I think the worse that can happen is it uses up battery power a bit faster
[19:10] <jcoxon> grrr the old cusf predictor is bust
[19:21] <jcoxon> right PID running
[19:21] <jcoxon> now to tune it
[19:22] <jcoxon> what sort of ranges should people be using for P, I and D?
[19:23] <fsphil> is it not just a simple matter of, if(temp < lowtemp) heat++;, and vice-versa?
[19:24] <jcoxon> the risk is big temp shifts
[19:24] <jcoxon> ideally i want it to stabalise
[19:27] <fsphil> I suppose the main job is to smooth out the frequency variations rather than curing it totally
[19:28] <fsphil> hmm, this isn't as easy as I'd thought it might be
[19:29] <jcoxon> my thinking is to set a realistic setpoint
[19:29] <jcoxon> say -10
[19:30] <jcoxon> then have the controller try and maintain it there
[19:32] <fsphil> so only switch it on if it falls below -10, and apply more current the further it gets below that point?
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[19:33] <jcoxon> yes
[19:33] <jcoxon> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary
[19:35] <jerry507_mac> You'll just have to test it out to tune the pid values
[19:35] <jerry507_mac> Or use one of those tuning algorithms
[19:40] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: still launching next saturday?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: if you dont have a freezer, how can you test it at -10C setpoint?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> id suggest 35C or something
[19:42] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i've got a freezer
[19:42] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[19:42] <jcoxon> just currently playing with testing at 28 deg
[19:42] <jcoxon> just to understand how it all works
[19:42] <jcoxon> as i've never used it before
[19:43] <Laurenceb> still launching saturday?
[19:43] <jcoxon> yeah, depends on the prediction really
[19:45] <Laurenceb> yeah thas how it goes
[19:45] <Laurenceb> im working on a properly built sdr atm
[19:45] <jcoxon> wunderground is suggesting a trip to france
[19:46] <Laurenceb> got the enclosure and front panel finished
[19:46] <jcoxon> but thats not too much of a problem as can get a notam
[19:46] <Laurenceb> need to wait for my ftdi cable and ferrites to arrive from farnell
[19:46] <Laurenceb> i might come along to the launch, or maybe setup somewhere where i can get a signal
[19:47] <Laurenceb> dont know atm
[19:47] <jcoxon> no worries
[19:47] <Laurenceb> if im ready in time
[19:47] <fsphil> at least france doesn't have much in the way of large lakes
[19:50] <fsphil> it it floats properly, it could end up a fair distance away though
[19:50] <fsphil> if*
[20:04] <jcoxon> time for freezer test
[20:04] <jcoxon> set point = 0 deg
[20:07] <Laurenceb> how are you attaching the resistor/
[20:08] <jcoxon> a transistor
[20:08] <jcoxon> or do you mean to the radio?
[20:09] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:09] <Laurenceb> onto the xtal case?
[20:09] <jcoxon> my plan is to hot glue them
[20:09] <jcoxon> currently they sit right underneath in contact
[20:10] <jcoxon> if you are interested: http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[20:10] <Laurenceb> why not use a heatsunk transitor
[20:11] <jcoxon> cause when i was laying out the board that was the method i went with
[20:11] <jcoxon> with more research i see the possibilities
[20:11] <Laurenceb> if you used a transitor youd have a nice heatsink tab to fix onto the xtal case
[20:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:17] <Laurenceb> i wonder if theres a clever way to do this with VCO/PLL
[20:20] <jcoxon> junderwood varied his input voltage to the ntx2 to try and maintain the freq
[20:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:22] <Laurenceb> in the freezer atm?
[20:22] <jcoxon> yup
[20:23] <Laurenceb> is the pid working?
[20:23] <Laurenceb> how are you getting temperature feedback?
[20:23] <jcoxon> ds18b20 sensor
[20:23] <Laurenceb> it looks stable to me
[20:23] <jcoxon> the heater isn't on right now
[20:24] <Laurenceb> oh lol
[20:24] <jcoxon> you see the 0.00 inbetween the semi-colons
[20:24] <jcoxon> thats the PID output
[20:25] <jcoxon> obviously not got the tuning right
[20:34] <jcoxon> pah its really not working
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[20:39] <Laurenceb> personally id just write it from scratch
[20:39] <Laurenceb> its really not that hard
[20:39] <Laurenceb> remeber to link the math lib?
[20:44] <jcoxon> yup
[20:44] <jcoxon> it was working when aiming for 30 deg C
[20:44] <jcoxon> just not 0
[20:44] <Laurenceb> using a library?
[20:44] <jcoxon> yup
[20:45] <jcoxon> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary
[20:45] <Laurenceb> eek doubles
[20:46] <Laurenceb> i didnt even realise anyone had got double precision working
[20:46] <jcoxon> its the same as float
[20:46] <jcoxon> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/Double
[20:47] <Laurenceb> that seems silly
[20:47] <Laurenceb> double usually is 64bits
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[20:48] <jcoxon> ooo its doing something
[20:52] <natrium42> who, me?
[20:52] <jcoxon> hehe now my pid controller
[20:52] <jcoxon> my flight computer is in the fridge
[20:52] <natrium42> oh, not me :(
[20:52] <natrium42> cool
[20:52] <jcoxon> sorry freezer
[20:52] <jcoxon> http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[20:52] <MrCraig> lol testing components at low temps?
[20:52] <natrium42> do does it keep same temp?
[20:52] <natrium42> *so
[20:53] <jcoxon> not really
[20:53] <jcoxon> yet...
[20:53] <MrCraig> is anyone here working with PIC's?
[20:53] <jcoxon> don't click on the waterfall!
[20:53] <jcoxon> as it actually works
[20:54] <natrium42> bbl
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[20:54] <jcoxon> hmmm so i need it to react quicker it seems
[21:04] <fsphil> is it actually heating it up ok?
[21:05] <jcoxon> it still needs to be made into a single 'thermal mass'
[21:05] <jcoxon> but i was just making sure that the code does 'sort' of work
[21:14] <jcoxon> oooo its recovered, pulling the temperature up a bit
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[21:14] <jcoxon> evening RocketBoy
[21:14] <jcoxon> just got your email
[21:15] <RocketBoy> cool - sorry its not better news
[21:15] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:15] <jcoxon> well we'll have to see
[21:16] <jcoxon> its not an urgent launch
[21:16] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'll check status midweek
[21:17] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, got my ntx2 crystal to stabilise at 2deg (in the freezer currently which is -8)
[21:18] <eroomde> RocketBoy: is EARS today or next weekend?
[21:19] <RocketBoy> eroomde: ~Probably - but it depends on how other things go
[21:20] <eroomde> ok. if it happens would there be fireworks?
[21:20] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: cool - thats the way to go temp stabilise the crystal and the surrounding components (inc varicap) if possible.
[21:21] <RocketBoy> yes there will be fireworks - probably our best so far
[21:22] <jcoxon> seems pretty stable re: freq - have turned off the AFC and its holding still
[21:22] <eroomde> i think rather annoyingly i might miss it. unless i drive up on sunday afternoon
[21:22] <RocketBoy> the event will go aheah - even if I/m not there
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[21:23] <RocketBoy> eroomde: pity if you miss it it'll be good
[21:23] <eroomde> what time would they be on Sunday evening?
[21:24] <eroomde> we've got some family friends for lunch, that's all. but I could drive up after if I take it easy at lunch
[21:24] <eroomde> jcoxon: there'd be a lift in it too if you fancy. Or a lift home if you're still up in cam
[21:24] <RocketBoy> normally just after it goes dark - but sometimes delayed depending on how the set-up goes
[21:25] <jcoxon> eroomde, cool - might be already there - shall have to see about if my launch goes ahead
[21:26] <eroomde> might bring up some chinese lanterns
[21:28] <RocketBoy> cool Idea - I have a few that I need to use up too - I'll see what the landowner thinks of them
[21:28] <eroomde> RocketBoy: I need to get my level 1 as we might be using rockets at work. do you know which month next year ears is likely to resume?
[21:28] <eroomde> yeah i've not launched them before but i was going to do some on saturday night next week as we're not really bothering with fireworks this year
[21:29] <RocketBoy> eroomde:yeah we go March to December (Jan & Feb off)
[21:30] <eroomde> h'ok cool
[21:30] <eroomde> thanks
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[22:05] <SpeedEvil> I wish getting chemicals was easy. I just want a few grams of K2ZrF4 - for experiments in Al/C composites.
[22:11] <jcoxon> very chilly flight computer
[22:11] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[22:11] <jonsowman> how chilly is chilly?
[22:12] <jcoxon> -8
[22:12] <jcoxon> just got it out of the freezer
[22:12] <jonsowman> nice
[22:12] <jonsowman> and did the xtal stay warm?
[22:12] <jcoxon> managed to keep the module stable at ~+4 degC
[22:12] <jonsowman> :)
[22:12] <jcoxon> though the shift changed
[22:13] <jcoxon> as i'm only really heating the crystal
[22:13] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:14] <jcoxon> jonsowman, cusf got any spare balloons right now
[22:14] <jcoxon> ?
[22:14] <jonsowman> not sure, i'll email the list and check the lab tomorrow
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[22:16] <jonsowman> what size were you after ideally? 1500g?
[22:16] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:16] <jonsowman> alright
[22:16] <jcoxon> >= 1kg
[22:16] <jonsowman> okay
[22:16] <eroomde> hmm
[22:16] <eroomde> be careful what you with for
[22:17] <jcoxon> < 3kg
[22:17] <eroomde> as i know we have some >>1kg balloons in there
[22:17] <eroomde> :)
[22:17] <jonsowman> i'll go look tomorrow
[22:18] <jcoxon> thanks
[22:19] <fsphil> if all else fails I've got a 1kg balloon
[22:24] <pretec> I'am still looking for a balloon supplier in germany. As far as i know now i have to order in Uk or USA
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[22:41] <MrCraig> anyone up for a spot of electonics diagnosis / speculation? http://pastebin.com/GCaPW8Qh
[22:45] <jonsowman> MrCraig: you can't use a potential divider to provide a stable voltage supply
[22:45] <jonsowman> I think that's what you're describing there
[22:45] <MrCraig> three series resistors?
[22:45] <fsphil> it's possible too that the PIC is not configured to use its internal oscillator
[22:46] <jonsowman> yes, it doesn't work like that
[22:46] <jonsowman> you'll end up with the correct potential at the point _provided_ you draw no current
[22:46] <jonsowman> which is clearly not helpful
[22:46] <jonsowman> to get your 13V8 down to 5V you need a proper regulator
[22:47] <MrCraig> ok, either that or I need to use a different power supply, I have a battery casing for two 3v cells, that ought to do it
[22:47] <eroomde> as a rule of thumb it's good enough to keep the tap current < 1/10th of the current through the two resistors. But that would be a ludicrously inefficient way of doing things
[22:48] <MrCraig> and I need to check the chip config for internal oscilator
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[22:48] <jonsowman> yes two fresh batteries should be alright, though if you can find a 3xAA(A) one it'd be better
[22:48] <MrCraig> I was thinking two double A
[22:49] <jonsowman> you should get away with it, but that's 3V nominal which is right on the lower bound
[22:49] <jonsowman> you might find it triggers brownout detection or what have you if the terminal voltage drops at all under load
[22:49] <MrCraig> I see
[22:50] <jonsowman> as I said, 3xAA would be preferable if you can hack them together :)
[22:50] <MrCraig> I do have an adjustable DC supply with a 4.5v setting, the only down side to using it is that it's connector is a typical DC jack so I'd need to be ham handed to connect it to a breadboard.
[22:51] <jonsowman> heh
[22:51] <MrCraig> I guess I could series three AA's
[22:51] <jonsowman> worse things have been done
[22:52] <MrCraig> i'm certain I've done them :-P
[22:52] <jonsowman> :D
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[23:06] <MrCraig> Well it's gone 11pm and I have a presentation to give tomorrow that I'm hidiously under prepared for - I guess this is good night for now. Thanks for the advice :-)
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[23:45] <vaulner> hey guys
[23:45] <vaulner> i'm looking to buy a gps module
[23:45] <vaulner> what do you think of em406?
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[23:47] <Randomskk> they are fairly okay
[23:47] <Randomskk> I seem to remember them cutting out above 18km or so
[23:47] <Randomskk> but tend to get lock back again and such
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[23:49] <vaulner> it is easier to find it than lassen iq
[23:49] <vaulner> or copernicus
[23:49] <vaulner> so I think i will give it a try
[23:56] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[00:00] --- Mon Nov 1 2010