highaltitude.log.20101028

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[02:51] <juxta> ping Darkside
[03:14] <shenki> juxta: Darkside is off suit shopping :D
[03:14] <shenki> final year dinner tomorrow night
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[04:59] <juxta> heh, ok, thanks shenki
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[07:24] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Paris/Vulture 1 launch today"
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[07:31] <earthshine> Morning'
[07:31] <jcoxon> morning earthshine
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[08:17] Action: jcoxon has just upgraded his phone
[08:17] <jcoxon> that means one thing - an old android phone for ballooning!
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[08:44] <eroomde> jcoxon: cool! Ed Cunningham has done some nice work with his andtroid
[08:45] <eroomde> you've met i believe at nova 18/peg vii/squirrel
[08:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:46] <jcoxon> plans for the day ed?
[08:46] <eroomde> none as yet
[08:47] <jcoxon> we've added a nice new feature to dl-fldigi
[08:47] <eroomde> uhuh?
[08:47] <jcoxon> if the payload has a gpslock field it detects that
[08:47] <jcoxon> and shows yellow if no lock and green if lock (+ checksum passes as well)
[08:47] <jcoxon> and it only uploads valid data
[08:48] <jcoxon> so at launch site - you could launch when it changes from yellow to green...
[08:48] <eroomde> ah awesome
[08:48] <eroomde> all systems green
[08:51] <jcoxon> next job is a button in the gui which grabs the last pos off the server say if you've been away from your computer and lost its position
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[08:52] <pretec> Hi
[08:52] <jcoxon> hi pretec
[08:53] <pretec> :-)
[08:53] <eroomde> jcoxon: are you still in london?
[08:53] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:53] <jcoxon> gas man still looking for hte leak
[08:54] <eroomde> you've got a leak!?
[08:54] <eroomde> good lord
[08:54] <jcoxon> oh yeah a small leak but it meant that the meter box smelt of gas
[08:54] <jcoxon> so the cut the gas on tues night
[08:55] <jcoxon> gas man came to repair but can't find where it is leaking
[08:55] <jcoxon> so is back today searching
[08:55] <eroomde> that can't be much fun
[08:55] <eroomde> at least you're not at work this week
[08:56] <m1x10> cool, my family just gave me 50E for me, just like that !!!! Radiometrix Im coming !!
[08:56] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah - was a cold night
[08:57] <jcoxon> and i'm not looking forward to the bill - but it needs to be done
[08:57] <eroomde> yeah
[08:57] <jcoxon> especially as i have new tennants moving in
[08:58] <eroomde> do you reckon parking in hoxton after 7pm should be doable?
[08:58] <jcoxon> hehe should be
[08:58] <eroomde> cool
[08:58] <eroomde> my friend has a play, was thinking of driving as the last train back to here is annoyingly early
[08:58] <jcoxon> hoxton is where the london hackspace is
[08:59] <jcoxon> eroomde, you could drive to croydon then get the overground to hoxton
[08:59] <eroomde> of course - anything with more that a smattering of hipster is required to be in hoxton
[08:59] <eroomde> i'm not leaving my car in croydon. next?
[08:59] <jcoxon> haha
[08:59] <jcoxon> hoxton ain't that great ;-)
[09:17] <jcoxon> aaarrggh threads in dl-fldigi
[09:17] <jcoxon> not sure how DanielRichman keeps sane
[09:31] <jcoxon> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/28/paris_live/
[09:41] <eroomde> It would be nice to be able to launch in spain
[09:41] <eroomde> a week holiday every now and then
[09:41] <eroomde> 'er yah, we need 4 days of de-brief on site after launch day... k thnx bye'
[09:42] <eroomde> just downloaded wors 2 onto my iphone. goodbye october
[09:47] <jcoxon> haha
[09:47] <jcoxon> gas leak isolated to boiler - making progress
[09:55] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=a%2FG6UIM-11
[09:57] <eroomde> it really would be nice to use aprs wouldn't it
[09:57] <juxta> Croydon in London is dodgy too?
[09:57] <eroomde> yep
[09:57] <juxta> heh
[09:57] <jcoxon> eroomde, i don't know - i like the participation in our system
[09:58] <juxta> Croydon here isn't great either
[09:58] <eroomde> where abouts is it?
[09:59] <juxta> http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=croydon,+adelaide&sll=51.372361,-0.100401&sspn=0.16117,0.328903&g=croydon,+london&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Croydon+South+Australia&ll=-34.897582,138.563647&spn=0.026469,0.041113&z=15
[09:59] <juxta> rather small in comparison by the looks of things ;p
[10:00] <juxta> Australian capital cities are full of suburbs with the same names as places in the UK
[10:03] <jcoxon> descending it seems
[10:03] <jcoxon> i think this is the plane
[10:03] <eroomde> croydon is one of those large souless wastelands where nothing ever seems to happen, where programs like 'peep show' are set as a sort of modern dead-end job dystopia
[10:03] <eroomde> slough provided the same thing for the office
[10:04] <jcoxon> yes thats a good description
[10:04] <jcoxon> its where people who work for insurance companies work but don't live
[10:04] <juxta> haha
[10:04] <juxta> I liked peep show
[10:05] <eroomde> so that's what croydon is like
[10:06] <jcoxon> looks like the cutdown worked
[10:06] <jcoxon> as started descending at 20km
[10:07] <eroomde> sort of plummeting :)
[10:07] <jcoxon> indeed
[10:08] <russss> glider in "not gliding in a (near-)vacuum" shocker
[10:08] <jcoxon> the project is really just an excuse for puns
[10:09] <russss> could we gateway dl-fldigi to APRS?
[10:09] <jcoxon> we could
[10:10] <jcoxon> but you'd lose all the happiness of ascent/descent balloon icons
[10:10] <russss> heh
[10:10] <juxta> aprs.fi tends to slow down with a large number of positions displayed at once too
[10:10] <jcoxon> predictor + horizon radius
[10:10] <russss> I notice there are ships on aprs.fi, looks like someone is gatewaying AIS to APRS
[10:10] <juxta> yeah, I noticed that too
[10:11] <jcoxon> but yet its certainly something we could do and i think it would be worthwhile especially long duration
[10:11] <juxta> some big ships with 2 positions reported - one for the front of the boat, one at the back
[10:12] <juxta> jcoxon, why is PARIS being launched in Spain? Wasn't it a UK project?
[10:12] <russss> it's quite nice to see everything trackable on one site. (of course they need planes too)
[10:12] <russss> juxta: well it would be illegal on at least two counts in the UK
[10:12] <juxta> oh yes
[10:12] <juxta> hehe
[10:12] <russss> the 100mW APRS and the whole UAV thing.
[10:13] <russss> heh http://aprs.fi/?call=i/235009940
[10:13] <juxta> 404 here russss
[10:13] <russss> sorry. http://aprs.fi/?call=i%2F235009940
[10:13] <juxta> hah
[10:13] <russss> aprs.fi is broken. You can't copy URLs from your address bar.
[10:14] <jcoxon> russss, oh thats a common issue
[10:15] <juxta> what's Brighton like in the UK?
[10:15] <Darkside> hey juxta
[10:15] <jcoxon> maybe we should gate way to aprs off the habhub server
[10:15] <juxta> hey Darkside
[10:15] <Darkside> i have 2W output power, st 75% efficiency
[10:15] <jcoxon> rather then dl-fldigi
[10:15] <juxta> very nice
[10:15] <Darkside> also its light
[10:15] <jcoxon> juxta, brighton is very cool and camp
[10:15] <eroomde> oh it is gliding now
[10:15] <Darkside> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs834.snc4/69405_1675659368370_1144042127_1838649_3392262_n.jpg
[10:16] <Darkside> amp is on the left
[10:16] <Darkside> on the right is a filter, but i'm not actually using that at the moment
[10:16] <juxta> good job
[10:16] <juxta> jcoxon, 'camp'?
[10:17] <jcoxon> lots of gay pride
[10:17] <juxta> haha, righto
[10:17] <jcoxon> its got a good night life and is trendy right now as its not too far from london
[10:18] Action: jcoxon lives 10miles from brighton
[10:18] <juxta> you're in Worthing now, right jcoxon ?
[10:19] <jcoxon> yup
[10:19] <jcoxon> oh right now i'm in london but i'm normally in worthing
[10:19] <juxta> hehe :)
[10:21] <juxta> I've got some photos of the landing site from this weekend Darkside
[10:24] <juxta> everything was up in the trees: http://bogaurd.net/horus9/DSC_0472-1024.jpg
[10:24] <juxta> http://bogaurd.net/horus9/DSC_0475-1024.jpg
[10:24] <juxta> http://bogaurd.net/horus9/DSC_0480-1024.jpg
[10:26] <juxta> jcoxon, does the PARIS glider have any active control surfaces, or is it really just a paper plane?
[10:27] <jcoxon> eek http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/28/vulture_1_track/
[10:27] <jcoxon> thats the main payload apparently
[10:27] <jcoxon> the plane tx seems a little broken...
[10:29] <jcoxon> hehe comparing the chase car to the balloon i think they got their predictions wrong
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[10:30] <juxta> eek
[10:31] <juxta> G6UIM-11 is the balloon then, not the plane?
[10:32] <juxta> ah yes, thats what it says
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[10:35] <eroomde> juxta: that's quite a lading
[10:35] <eroomde> on a recent one we just had to cut away quite a volume of tree to release the appaling tangles mess stuck within that volume
[10:36] <juxta> we were quite lucky, we could reach it, no cutting required :)
[10:37] <juxta> nothing was touching the ground though eroomde: http://bogaurd.net/horus9/DSC_0486-1024.jpg
[10:37] <juxta> that was a 30m+ span too, hehe
[10:38] <eroomde> wow
[10:38] <eroomde> impressive
[10:38] <eroomde> i still think the best ever hab landing photo is jcoxon's floater
[10:39] <eroomde> dangling half a foot above water
[10:39] <juxta> haha yes
[10:39] <juxta> very fortunate that
[10:40] <juxta> we were lucky where that one landed eroomde, very few roads in that conservation park, in the end it was only 1km or so into the scrub
[10:40] <eroomde> what camera did that ham friend of yours who filmed horus use?
[10:40] <eroomde> the quality is fabulous
[10:40] <Darkside> juxta: sooooo, next launch? :P
[10:40] <juxta> the video you mean?
[10:40] <Darkside> gotta go ATV dammit
[10:41] <eroomde> yep sorry
[10:41] <juxta> smallish 3CCD camcorder
[10:42] <juxta> Sony HDR-HC9
[10:42] <juxta> at least what what he lists on his vimeo page! :)
[10:43] <juxta> the onboard video (http://vimeo.com/15985847) was a GoPro HD hero
[10:45] <juxta> actually eroomde, looks like it might not be 3CCD
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[10:45] <eroomde> nice though whatever it is
[10:46] <juxta> yeah, very nice, esp given its size
[10:46] <eroomde> the go pro looks very nice!
[10:47] <juxta> yeah, they're great too
[10:47] <juxta> asides from incompatibility with some brands of SD cards evidently (what caused mine to stop recording after 40 mins or so)
[10:47] <juxta> oh well, we punished it by drowning it in the ocean
[10:48] <eroomde> :)
[10:48] <Darkside> >_>
[10:48] <Darkside> that was expensive
[10:48] <juxta> the new one arrived today Darkside
[10:48] <Darkside> heh
[10:48] <russss> did you lose it in the sea?
[10:49] <juxta> well.. not lost as in misplaced
[10:49] <russss> heh
[10:49] <juxta> moreso as in no longer functional :)
[10:49] <russss> isn't it waterproof?
[10:49] <juxta> sure, when it's in it's waterproof housing, haha
[10:49] <eroomde> don't give up on it if water has got inside.
[10:50] <russss> ah.
[10:50] <juxta> the salt water was pretty bad eroomde, it totally ate through tracks on my flight computer board
[10:50] <eroomde> we dunked a very expensive thermal camera into a glacial waterfall when our blimp crashed accidently
[10:50] <russss> that ^^ is the best IRC line I've seen all day
[10:51] <juxta> heh
[10:51] <eroomde> but once we got it back to the uk we put it in an autoclave and took it to 50 degrees C in a near-vacuum which really effectively boiled off any water
[10:51] <eroomde> and it worked
[10:51] <juxta> awesome
[10:51] <juxta> that's pretty nifty
[10:51] <juxta> we pulled the gopro apart and irrigated it straight away
[10:51] <eroomde> but yes if the tracks are eroded then there's not much to be done
[10:51] <juxta> but it was too late, the corrosion was pretty terrible
[10:52] <russss> so, you didn't use the waterproof housing why? ;)
[10:52] <juxta> well, we didnt expect to go anywhere near water, hehe
[10:52] <eroomde> russss: yes it's no every day you get to say that
[10:52] <juxta> plus I would have had to make a hole in it for the aux power supply
[10:52] <russss> ah
[10:53] <russss> well in the UK I don't think I'd take that kind of risk
[10:53] <russss> we have a lot of water.
[10:53] <juxta> hehe
[10:53] <juxta> not much of that here :)
[10:53] <russss> I'd like to fly a decent downward-facing camera
[10:54] <eroomde> it would be cool to fly one with something for perspective too
[10:54] <eroomde> like another payload dangling 10m below
[10:54] <russss> eroomde: I have to ask why you had a thermal camera on a blimp now
[10:54] <juxta> that's a good idea
[10:54] <juxta> yes, I was wondering that too
[10:55] <eroomde> russss: this was a flip HD on nova 11 http://vimeo.com/4155678
[10:55] <eroomde> ok chaps give me a sec to post an explanatory pic
[10:57] <eroomde> juxta russss http://i.imgur.com/VPH1J.jpg
[10:57] <russss> that is fucking awesome
[10:57] <eroomde> so there are two cams onboard. a firewire HD and an ethernet IR
[10:57] <juxta> wow, that's just awesome
[10:57] <eroomde> they both feed into a core 2 duo PC104 board
[10:57] <eroomde> the optical camera is used to make a real-time 3d map of what it's looking at
[10:58] <juxta> where was this eroomde?
[10:58] <russss> see, I'm building a blimp but you totally out-blimped me.
[10:58] <eroomde> it does the in conjunction with an inertial pack
[10:58] <eroomde> the thermal data is then overlayed onto the 3d map to get a 3d temperature map
[10:58] <eroomde> and it's done to study the hydrology of the alps
[10:58] <eroomde> which is apprently very interesting to hydrologists and a decent source of funding for cool projects to 4 of us in the machine vision group
[10:59] <russss> what model is the blimp? and what's the wind stability like?
[10:59] <eroomde> it's a slightly customised 7m one from minizepp
[10:59] <eroomde> the stability wasn't as good as usual as the customisation was to make it a bit fatter for payload capacity
[10:59] <eroomde> for v2 we're going for a stock 8m blimp
[10:59] <juxta> how was it controlled eroomde?
[11:00] <eroomde> well there's full human control via 2.4Ghz futaba gear when we want, but also the onboard computer can do autopilot
[11:00] <eroomde> although i never got much of a chance to test out the autopilot before the crash
[11:00] <eroomde> and i've never written control software for a blimp before so who knows
[11:00] <juxta> heh :)
[11:00] <jcoxon> hehe
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[11:01] <juxta> how does it ascend/descend? are those ducted fans on the bottom?
[11:01] <eroomde> the idea was just to set it to do a rastor scan over say a 1km area
[11:01] <eroomde> they're more like baffled props but they've vecotrable
[11:01] <eroomde> in combination with the fins that's how it's controlled
[11:01] <juxta> nifty
[11:01] <eroomde> it's slightly negatively bouyant so you have to actively thrust up to go up
[11:02] <juxta> what sort of altitudes does it fly at?
[11:02] <eroomde> but the funs are 1.25hp each so can really shift it about - sort of 40mph top speed
[11:02] <juxta> wow, that's very fast
[11:02] <eroomde> well you have to set it just right for the altitude
[11:02] <juxta> how is it powered?
[11:02] <eroomde> that photo was taken at 2000m and we eventually trecked up to the snow line in the background which was about 2400
[11:02] <eroomde> and you set it up for that + 100m. you can't really see what you're doing above 100m AGL anyway
[11:03] <eroomde> try and keep it about 40m most of the time
[11:03] <eroomde> it's powered by a couple of big LiPo packs
[11:03] <eroomde> i must confess i used a proper 900MHz spread spetrum 1W radio modem for the telem link
[11:03] <juxta> that's very cool!
[11:03] <eroomde> reasoning it wouldn't propagate too far in an alpine valley
[11:04] <russss> hmm yeah, 2x800W fans
[11:04] <eroomde> i'll stick up another photo which might give a better view of the tronics though these are just from my iphone
[11:04] <eroomde> that's Olaf in the picture. we talk turns to walk with it
[11:04] <eroomde> it's called Swampy btw
[11:05] <juxta> hehe
[11:05] <juxta> what's that hanging on the front?
[11:05] <juxta> a water bottle for ballast or something?
[11:05] <eroomde> correct!
[11:05] <russss> how much is a fill of helium for one of those?
[11:05] <eroomde> you can see the highly sophisticted Evian ballasting and trim system
[11:05] <eroomde> 15m^3
[11:06] <juxta> quite a lot of gas
[11:07] <juxta> what's the blimp itself made of?
[11:07] <eroomde> http://imgur.com/HwS3u.jpg
[11:07] <eroomde> side view
[11:07] <eroomde> there's an inner polythene envelope and the outwer skin is rip-stop (parachute) nylon
[11:07] <eroomde> with all the attachent points sewn on
[11:08] <eroomde> in the new photo you can see a modification we made to the tail fin
[11:08] <eroomde> a lateral fan
[11:08] <eroomde> just to help turning
[11:08] <eroomde> chaps i need to run an errand quickly but back in 20 mins
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> neat
[11:08] <russss> doesn't polyethene leak helium quite badly? (apologies for the interrogation)
[11:08] <eroomde> russss: no am happy to talk shop :) it does need periodic topping up yes
[11:09] <eroomde> but for a 2 week mission 2 x 9m^3 cylinders are fine
[11:09] <Laurenceb_> not that bad
[11:09] <eroomde> i.e. 18m^3 for a 15m^3 envelope
[11:09] <eroomde> ok back in a bit
[11:09] <russss> I'm planning on building a indoor-size blimp to take up to Maker Faire next year, if they let us fly it in their awesome venue
[11:09] <juxta> thanks for sharing that eroomde :)
[11:10] <russss> a two-skin envelope seems to be the way to go
[11:11] <Laurenceb_> ooh paris vulture is in flight
[11:11] <Laurenceb_> or just crashed even :D
[11:14] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: what OS is the pc104 board running
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[11:27] <eroomde> back
[11:27] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: arch linux
[11:28] <eroomde> russss: the most important part of the blimp for us is the balonet
[11:28] <eroomde> i'm not sure if the smaller high skin tension blimps need them but the big ones certainly do
[11:29] <eroomde> ballonet sorry
[11:30] <eroomde> especially important when we have to go from a shed in a ski resort at 1800m to a scientific site at 2400m - it would probably burst if we didn't have the flexibility if affords us
[11:31] <eroomde> russss: the polythene is not just normal stuff - it's high molecular weight stuff. I assume this helps with porosity aswell as being stronger
[11:33] <eroomde> you can see the shadow of the ballonet above the pods in this photo, to give you an idea of scale. it's hemispherical. http://i.imgur.com/HwS3u.jpg
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> so thats inflated with air?
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> the ballonet?
[11:37] <eroomde> yep
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> i see, so thats just to maintain the pressure
[11:38] <Laurenceb_> how do you inflate the ballonet?
[11:38] <eroomde> just with a wee pump
[11:38] <eroomde> gloried hair drier
[11:39] <eroomde> glorified*
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> ah, neat
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> is the ir camera cooled?
[11:45] <eroomde> no but it auto calibrates every 5s
[11:45] <eroomde> it's remarkably sensitive
[11:45] <eroomde> it can see people through walls and can tell me what keys you jus pressed one your keyboard
[11:45] <eroomde> great for seeing people's passwords
[11:46] <eroomde> right got to run again. back in an hour or so
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[12:11] <jcoxon> haha
[12:11] <jcoxon> i quote from the comments regarding PARIS
[12:11] <jcoxon> :
[12:11] <jcoxon> "Paris, our generations Apollo 13"
[12:13] <juxta> oh dear, haha
[12:13] <jcoxon> looks like it'll be recoverable
[12:14] <jcoxon> pretty close to a track
[12:18] <eroomde> back
[12:18] <eroomde> hmm nice comment
[12:19] Action: jcoxon is bored
[12:19] <jcoxon> gas/boiler repairs are boring
[12:20] <juxta> what was the problem jcoxon?
[12:20] <eroomde> too many baked beans
[12:20] <juxta> heh
[12:21] <jcoxon> juxta, gas valve has failed so needs to be repaired
[12:21] <juxta> fun - i had a gas leak a while ago, very annoying
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> I found recently that there are cheap gas appliances from china on ebay.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> What could possily go wrong?
[12:25] <Hibby> nothing! the cheap ebay handheld radios from china are spectacular!
[12:25] <jcoxon> hmmm with APRS do you need a passcode then?
[12:25] <juxta> they are rather good for the money
[12:25] <juxta> jcoxon, no, not to get into the regular APRS network
[12:25] <eroomde> i tried a dual bander though
[12:26] <eroomde> sorry, dual tranceiver
[12:26] <eroomde> for cheap sat use eg U/V
[12:26] <eroomde> but the intermod was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
[12:26] <juxta> hmm, which one was that eroomde?
[12:26] <juxta> mine is dual band, but only a single VFO which is just really quickly switches to give dual watch
[12:27] <eroomde> it's in cam currently so can't tell you the details. but it works fine to go into repeaters
[12:27] <eroomde> but it's not a patch on my yaesu vx-7r
[12:28] <juxta> yeah, but I don't want to hack up a brand name radio to turn it into another flying repeater ;p
[12:28] <eroomde> true dat :)
[12:28] <eroomde> so what's the legalisty on that OOI?
[12:28] <eroomde> what can you tx from a balloon?
[12:29] <juxta> no restrictions on ham bands for unmanned operation in the air
[12:29] <juxta> woohoo
[12:29] <Darkside> :D
[12:29] <eroomde> wow
[12:29] <eroomde> i might move
[12:30] <juxta> well, as far as we've been able to find out anyway - and we did run it by the right people
[12:30] <jcoxon> eroomde, we should ban juxta for boasting
[12:30] <juxta> haha
[12:30] <eroomde> just think what we could do!
[12:31] <eroomde> 1W on 434
[12:31] <eroomde> TV!
[12:31] <Darkside> eroomde: about that...
[12:31] <juxta> :)
[12:31] <Darkside> i want to do ATV on 23cm
[12:31] <juxta> Darkside is pretty keen to put an ATV transmitter aboard a payload
[12:31] <Darkside> up
[12:31] <Darkside> yup
[12:32] <Hibby> yup
[12:32] <Hibby> one of my student groups is looking to TX images from a balloon
[12:32] <Hibby> shame they're clueless about anything radio, and as such keep coming back to me for more :/
[12:32] <juxta> hmm, how annoying - processes invoked in java under windows become blocking if their output on stdout and stderr isn't dealt with
[12:33] <eroomde> Hibby: jcoxon has done it a couple of times
[12:33] <eroomde> sstv over the 10mW link
[12:33] <eroomde> jcoxon: do you have a link to the relevent bit of your flickr?
[12:33] <juxta> won't OFCOM bend the rules at all? :(
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> heh
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> some chance
[12:33] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624065248931/
[12:34] Action: Laurenceb_ realises why serial was dropped for usb
[12:34] <Hibby> yeah, that's what I was thinking. how did you manage that? image -> uC -> radio?
[12:35] <jcoxon> serial camera -> gumstix -> radio
[12:35] <Laurenceb_> cant sync the the characters properly :(
[12:35] <jcoxon> however fsphil has a system that could do 'SSDV' with an AVR
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[12:35] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4708409149/in/set-72157624065248931/ this one's lovely
[12:35] Action: Hibby just sneezed, hit my knee off the desk and swore loudly in a room full of other people
[12:36] <Hibby> ah, cool.
[12:36] <jcoxon> ssdv = jpeg over rtty
[12:36] <Hibby> sweet
[12:37] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[12:37] <eroomde> hi jonsowman
[12:37] <jonsowman> how're things?
[12:37] <eroomde> good thanks. you?
[12:38] <jonsowman> yeah all good thanks.
[13:12] <jcoxon> i reckon that paris payload is up a tree
[13:13] <jcoxon> as its still getting through to the APRS network
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[13:34] <m1x10> omg! TTL jpeg camera price increased!
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[13:35] <m1x10> I took it from cutedigi.com 36.99$ sometime ago. Sparkfun sells it 50$. Now cutedigi.com sells it 44$ !
[13:35] <m1x10> should write this to sparkfun!
[13:35] <m1x10> the cheaters!
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[13:38] <juxta> i don't understand
[13:41] <jcoxon> main payload recovered but no plane
[13:42] <juxta> oh :(
[13:42] <juxta> plane was lost?
[13:42] <jcoxon> they think it was released as planned
[13:42] <jcoxon> but no signal so its gone bye bye methinks
[13:43] <juxta> ah, that's a shame
[13:43] <Darkside> oh hey
[13:43] <Darkside> juxta: recon you could do me a facor tomorrow
[13:43] <jcoxon> its tough launching 2 things at once especially as a first time
[13:43] <Darkside> and make the website track my 'payload' ?
[13:43] <Hibby> jcoxon: what's the gps module you're using for the transatlantic stuff?
[13:43] <Darkside> this is assuming i can get gps lock in the exhibition area tomorrow
[13:43] <juxta> Darkside, how do you mean?
[13:44] <russss> complex, un-flight-tested payload fails to operate as planned. Film at 11.
[13:45] <jcoxon> Hibby, currently we find that 2 gps modules are suitable
[13:45] <jcoxon> lassen IQ and Ublox gps modules
[13:46] <jcoxon> i personally use the falcom fsa ublox5 gps module
[13:46] <Hibby> why the two? Redundancy or otherwise?
[13:46] <jcoxon> oh
[13:46] <jcoxon> i mean that only 2 models would work
[13:46] <Hibby> ah, ok
[13:46] <jcoxon> all other models are limited to 18km alt
[13:46] <juxta> we flew a ublox 4 this last flight, that worked too :)
[13:46] <jcoxon> as they mistakenly have interpreted the COCOM limits
[13:46] <eroomde> most*
[13:47] <jcoxon> eroomde, indeed
[13:47] <Hibby> cool.
[13:47] <DanielRichman> also the lassen is just soo easy to use and the ubloxes are used enough by people in this channel that they'd be able to answer most questions on it
[13:48] <Hibby> tried this before? http://dft.ba/-2Y6
[13:48] <jcoxon> not that one - good that its got the high alt firmware
[13:48] <Hibby> aye, figured so
[13:48] <jcoxon> thats often used on APRS setups
[13:49] <jcoxon> i personally like ublox gps modules
[13:49] <Hibby> indeed.
[13:49] Action: Hibby is an aprs whore
[13:49] <jcoxon> though some people here have had issues with slightly wobbily antennas
[13:50] <Hibby> where can you pick up the ublox stuff in the UK?
[13:51] <jcoxon> earthshine used to stock them but i think he ran out
[13:51] <jcoxon> the latest i got were from here: http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[13:51] <jcoxon> that said they claimed they only had 2 left when i ordered from them so it would be worth call before ordering :-)
[13:52] <Hibby> couldn't find it on the site... what a tool
[13:52] <jcoxon> oh that website is terrible
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[14:02] <Hibby> internet in here is godawful too
[14:02] <juxta> wow, that's a rather significant discount for buying 2
[14:02] <juxta> too bad they charge a flat fee of 35 pounds to ship here :(
[14:04] <jcoxon> persuade earthshine to start stocking them again :-)
[14:04] <juxta> hehe, I don't think they sold well when he carried them
[14:05] <jcoxon> mwhahah i have 5 ntx2 modules - so many missions...
[14:07] <juxta> hehe - when are you planning to launch next jcoxon?
[14:08] <jcoxon> so a floater on 6/11 hopefully
[14:08] <jcoxon> then the iceland flight
[14:09] Action: Hibby sniggers
[14:10] <jcoxon> :-)
[14:11] <jcoxon> that said i'm on call next week so will need to get quite a bit done tonight
[14:12] <earthshine> The FSA03's sold so slowly it was not worth me having that much money wrapped up in stock
[14:15] <jcoxon> what was falcom's min order number?
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[14:16] <earthshine> 25 i think
[14:17] <eroomde> what was the unit price at that quantity?
[14:18] <earthshine> no point asking this was about a year ago
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> id still be interested
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> wasnt it 27euros or something?
[14:20] <earthshine> about £26 + VAT
[14:20] <earthshine> exc. delivery
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> matches the price i have
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> im thinking of trying out ublox6
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> its very pricey tho
[14:23] <juxta> Laurenceb, for the dead reckoning?
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> huh
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> for v2 of my autopilot board
[14:24] <juxta> dont the ublox6 engines feature dead reckoning to use when GPS lock is lost?
[14:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah, but its only 2d, rather lame
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> 5 is actually more flixible in many ways
[14:25] <juxta> oh right
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> you can extract raw tracking data from ublox5, but 6 you need the raw data receiver
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> - i.e. you need to buy a more expensive version
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> but its kind of beside the point, you need to reflash with different firmware ont he 5 to do that
[14:26] <juxta> interesting - any reason for it besides segregating the market?
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> and the fsa03 uses the gs5010 which is rom based
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> it might be a COCOM thing
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> aiui on 5 you could turn off the position solutions and bypass COCOM completely
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> by doing you own position solver off module
[14:28] Action: m1x10 can't find online the fsa03+breakout module :(
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> you hardly need a breakout
[14:28] <juxta> haha, that's neat Laurenceb
[14:29] <Laurenceb_> for rockets/missiles youd quickly hit the tracking loop bandwidth limits tho
[14:29] <Laurenceb_> sustained 10G or so and it wouldnt be able to track
[14:30] <juxta> yeah, a friend flew a ublox5 on a rocket recently and lost lock during burn & only regained it part way down the descent
[14:30] <Laurenceb_> sounds about right
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> ublox5 gets lock crazy fast
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> i get about 20 seconds cold start
[14:31] <eroomde> that can't be *actually* cold, can it?
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> yes
[14:31] <m1x10> Timbolel has a different aspect for ublox :)
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> warm or anything else is about 1 max
[14:32] <eroomde> as in zilch ephemeris?
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> if i use battery backup i usually get 500ms startup
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> yes
[14:32] <eroomde> how does it manage that?
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> crazy number of gates correlation engine
[14:32] <eroomde> it sure can't know where the sats are
[14:32] <eroomde> sure it can correlate and aquire
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> it has a completely seperate die in the module aiui
[14:32] <juxta> when I start mine cold it gets lock within 60 seconds, usually less
[14:32] <eroomde> and if it doesn't know the position of the sats its found...
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> just for correlation
[14:33] <Laurenceb_> hmm yeah - if doesnt have ephemeris
[14:33] <Laurenceb_> i guess it must use some basic data from eeprom or something
[14:34] <eroomde> sure that's what i mean. maybe we need a step below 'cold'
[14:34] <eroomde> frozen
[14:34] <Laurenceb_> the position solution is quite poor for a minute or so
[14:34] <Laurenceb_> guess while it gets the data from the sats
[14:35] <Laurenceb_> probably just uses the IDs of the sats together with the timestamp from bit edges
[14:35] <Laurenceb_> then has an occasionally updated rough eeprom ephemeris or something
[14:36] <Laurenceb_> but cold as in no backup bat for a long time takes about 20 seconds to get a lock out in the open
[14:37] <Laurenceb_> just dont let any noise onto the power supply :P
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> that really decreases performance, you have to take care
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[14:40] <Laurenceb_> i found that egnos is always really strong compared to the gps birds
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> main advantage with ublox6 is 5hz, configurable timepulse and ~40% lower current
[14:49] <eroomde> 5 has configurable timepulse doesn't it?
[14:49] <eroomde> in terms of frequency
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> iirc its fixed at 1hz
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> 6 will go up to 10khz
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[14:54] <Laurenceb_> useful for rf
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[14:56] <Laurenceb_> especially for this sdr project - the xtal is wandering all over the place :S
[14:57] <Laurenceb_> oddly over ~10second periods its deviating about an order of magnitude more than ntx2 or my icom
[14:57] <Laurenceb_> obviously one of these allen variance things
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> well that and lack of shielding or enclosure
[15:00] <jcoxon> hooray
[15:00] <jcoxon> gas fixed
[15:05] <jcoxon> 400 pounds poorer
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> eek
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> what was the issue?
[15:05] <jcoxon> gas leak in the boiler
[15:05] <jcoxon> had to replace one of the valves
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> you could buy a new boiler for that
[15:06] <jcoxon> that includes fitting and finding the leak in the first place
[15:06] <jcoxon> and reconnecting me to the gas after they shut it off :-p
[15:06] <russss> boilers are expensive to fix
[15:06] <Laurenceb_> sounds like a rip off :(
[15:06] <russss> the fan broke in mine just before last christmas.
[15:06] <juxta> is a boiler a water heater?
[15:06] Action: Laurenceb_ got a new boiler for £350
[15:06] <Laurenceb_> juxta: HAND HEATING
[15:06] <Laurenceb_> erm
[15:06] <Laurenceb_> and heating
[15:07] <russss> and it cost ~£400 to fix
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: combi condenser?
[15:07] <juxta> I see
[15:09] <eroomde> jcoxon: are you still in lond?
[15:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:09] <eroomde> coming back this eve?
[15:09] <jcoxon> eroomde, just about to set off home
[15:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[15:09] <eroomde> train or car?
[15:09] <jcoxon> train
[15:09] <jcoxon> car is in worthing
[15:09] <eroomde> ah ok.just you'd probably drive past my house if you were driving
[15:10] <Randomskk> eroomde: wrt phoning cambridge tower, the procedure is basically ring them 24hr before to say we'll be launching, then 5min before to confirm?
[15:10] <eroomde> Randomskk: yep
[15:10] <Randomskk> cool
[15:11] <eroomde> you usually get the sweet girl who you can here in the background saying 'it's the guys with the radiosonic balloon'
[15:11] <eroomde> hear*
[15:11] <Randomskk> hehe
[15:11] <Randomskk> I think I got her last time I had to phone due to getting a message on my answering machine saying to please phone them
[15:11] <Randomskk> actually, I think that was duxford.
[15:11] <eroomde> mmm probs
[15:11] <eroomde> they don't really care
[15:12] <eroomde> can't imagine them leaving messages
[15:12] <eroomde> are you doing something imminently?
[15:13] <Randomskk> jcoxon's launch a week saturday
[15:13] <eroomde> ah ok
[15:14] <eroomde> nothing from astrium in the last week?
[15:17] <Randomskk> not that I've heard of
[15:17] <Randomskk> they are being slow
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> what are astrium up to?
[15:22] <eroomde> weather is crap i guess
[15:22] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: a balloon launch
[15:22] <eroomde> for some apprentices
[15:22] <jonsowman> potential astrium launch on sunday last I heard
[15:22] <eroomde> internal training thingamie
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> ah neat
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[15:23] <Laurenceb_> from cambridge?
[15:23] <jonsowman> yes
[15:24] <jonsowman> apparently there wasnt much enthusiasm at astrium for a sunday launch
[15:24] <jonsowman> unsurprisingly I guess
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[15:25] <eroomde> weather was crap last I looked anyway
[15:26] <jonsowman> yeah it's not great at the moment really
[15:30] <m1x10> BAD NEWS: esawdust.com dont sell anymore the FSA03 assembled board. I'm totally out of plan.
[15:30] <Randomskk> use another gps?
[15:31] <m1x10> and I have already sent my first pcb to seedstudio which supports that fsa03 board
[15:31] <Randomskk> ah
[15:31] <Randomskk> that is annoying
[15:31] <Randomskk> new gps and hack it on
[15:32] <m1x10> I need a ublox5 based
[15:32] <m1x10> pooooo, I can't believe it
[15:32] <m1x10> He just sells some breakouts left in his stock
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> email falcom?
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> i have a few, but i dont really want to sell, sorry
[15:34] <m1x10> what? bare fsa03 or fsa03+board ?
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> bare
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[15:35] <m1x10> my problem is that i need that specific breakout
[15:35] <m1x10> my pcb supports it
[15:36] <m1x10> the only solution that comes right now is to buy the breakout from esawdust.com and buy a bare fsa03 and then give it to someone to solder it.
[15:36] <m1x10> crap crap crap
[15:37] <Laurenceb_> its easy to solder
[15:37] <m1x10> Laurenceb: not for me.
[15:37] <m1x10> and I have to pay 2 different shippings
[15:37] <m1x10> one for fsa and one for breakout
[15:38] <m1x10> ouf
[15:38] Action: m1x10 lights a cigarette
[15:39] <Laurenceb_> the pads are huge
[15:41] <m1x10> who have a picture of jcoxon's breakout ?
[15:41] <m1x10> has*
[15:41] <eroomde> flickr.com/jcoxon77
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_june10.html
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> interesting - looks like they are doing some credible design work
[15:43] <m1x10> I guess that guy in the pictures are jcoxon
[15:44] <m1x10> is*
[15:45] <russss> that thing looks like it was designed in the 1950s
[15:47] <eroomde> cute isnt it
[15:47] <russss> what kind of thermal protection is it using?
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[15:47] <Laurenceb_> silicon carbide composite
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> very clever stuff - cheap and easy to make
[15:47] <russss> reusable?
[15:48] <vaulner> hey guys
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:48] <vaulner> just a question
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> SiC tiles?
[15:48] <vaulner> why sirf star III doesn't work well?
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Or SiC-C
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> cus sirf sucks
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> i cant remeber sorry :()
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> its some kind of silicon carbide version of carbon carbon
[15:49] <russss> seems like they plan to cool it with the fuel
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[15:50] <SpeedEvil> In many ways cool, but in others, Space-X is cooler.
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> http://composite.about.com/library/glossary/s/bldef-s4906.htm
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> something like that
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> SiC fibres then SiC vapour depositon
[15:51] <Laurenceb_> supposedly they have had some test panels made
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what the fracture mechanics are like.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> If the fibres are distinct enough from the matrix, crack propagation might not be terrible.
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> its supposed to be as good as C-C but way cheaper
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> I never understood why C-C was expensive.
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> crazy hard deposition techniques
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> I looked at the parameters of the process - and OK - it's hot - but it's quite managable.
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> this is a lot cheaper and easier
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> it takes place in low pressure argon at 400C aiui
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> thats just from talking to them at a conference
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> That's a lot easier, admittedly.
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> they are very dodgey about giving detailed info away
[15:54] <m1x10> No one here got an assembled fsa from esawdust.com ? I need to buy it
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> cya
[15:57] <m1x10> bb
[16:15] <eroomde> russss are you thinking of DIYing your wee blimp?
[16:15] <russss> yeah
[16:15] <russss> well, we have a small mylar envelope for testing
[16:16] <russss> but I'm quite tempted to make a nylon outer envelope now
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> np: Moody Blues - Blimps in white satin.
[16:17] <russss> and I have a gumstix earmarked for the purpose
[16:18] <eroomde> awesome
[16:18] <eroomde> well you're welcome to pop up to cambridge to see our when when it gets delivered
[16:18] <eroomde> i haven't mentioned the new super-feature yet
[16:18] <eroomde> our one when*
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> a Chemical Oxygen Iodine LASER of a megawatt or three?
[16:19] <eroomde> no
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Darn.
[16:19] <eroomde> the last one died because there are some incredibly strong and very wierd and turbulent winds around the lapine peaks
[16:19] <eroomde> and it just got taken by one and didn't have the power to break away from being swept up a gulley
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Ah! A JATO unit.
[16:19] <eroomde> so the new version will have emergency rockets
[16:19] <eroomde> :)
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> I was joking.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Can rockets actually be useful over that long a timescale?
[16:21] <eroomde> we'll have a 'jesus button' on the remote control (with missile switch cover) which when flicked should activite a pair of rocket motors which should provide several hundred newtons of thrust for several seconds, just to power it out of wierd winds and into slightly more open air where we have a chance on bringing it down safely
[16:21] <eroomde> the jesus button only gets pressed if it looks like we're going to loose it
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:21] <russss> or if it's being pursued by a supervillain in a helicopters?
[16:21] <russss> -s
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> What are the interlocks to prevent it going off in your face?
[16:22] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: a little sticker saying 'do not stand here'
[16:22] <eroomde> russss: well quite. we have bomblets for that
[16:23] <russss> you need a "remove before flight" arming pin
[16:23] <eroomde> for sure yes, we won't skimp on doing what we can to make it safe
[16:23] <eroomde> i'll need to get my level one actually
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/img/2008/coyote/wec-charred.jpg
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> for sticker
[16:29] <vaulner> guys, i'm thinking of making my project with gumstix
[16:29] <vaulner> instead of arduino
[16:29] <vaulner> what do you think?
[16:32] <eroomde> vaulner: they are definitely a sledgehammer to a nail
[16:32] <eroomde> unless you're doing lots of clever things
[16:32] <DanielRichman> gumstix are more expensive and its easier to produce hacky code on them; coupled with an embedded OS to deal with you really need a reason to have gumstix
[16:32] <eroomde> and they new one run HOT
[16:33] <eroomde> sorry rubbish typing - the new ones run really quite HOT, I fear they might not cope with operation in a near vacuum
[16:33] <DanielRichman> you can do almost everything you want to with an AVR based flight computer, unless you're doing something like an autopilot
[16:33] <DanielRichman> oh and there's tonnes of code on the wiki adn in project repos for the AVR, nto so much for the gumstix
[16:34] <vaulner> hm.. will stick to arduino then
[16:34] <eroomde> and the hardware has seemed a little flakey to me although i must stress i have limited experience with them. However I had a chat with Hugo Vincent (of albatross UAV fame) who says he finds them flakey, and my blimp project PI has found exactly the same thing
[16:34] <eroomde> plus it's a mejor loss if you loose the balloon!
[16:34] <vaulner> :)
[16:34] <vaulner> btw
[16:34] <vaulner> where should I stick the gps antenna?
[16:34] <vaulner> outside?
[16:35] <eroomde> yes :)
[16:35] <eroomde> somewhere with a good view of the sky
[16:35] <eroomde> it can be covered by polystyrene or something though if that's more convenient
[16:36] <eroomde> as long as you don't have it covered by something conductive or with a massive relative permitivity
[16:36] <eroomde> like a ceramic tile
[16:36] <eroomde> why you would be flying a ceramic tile i don't know
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[16:42] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: do i mean permitivity or permeability? I always confuse the names
[16:42] <eroomde> $epsilon_r$ is what i mean
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[16:46] <doughecka> eroomde: re-entry would be a good reason to fly a ceramic tile. :)
[16:46] <eroomde> doughecka: didn;t realise i'd be flying that high :)
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[17:47] <m1x10> I found a possible replacement
[17:47] <m1x10> for FSA03
[17:47] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9692
[17:47] <m1x10> but its very expensive
[17:47] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9436
[17:48] <m1x10> 1st link is the breakout and 2nd link is the gps
[17:52] <DanielRichman> why not just use the lassen iq
[17:53] <m1x10> DanielRichman: I have already spend my time to decode the ubx protocol commands plus that I have already sent my first PCB to seedstudio which currently supports the fsa03 breakout from esawdust.com
[17:54] <DanielRichman> Fair enough; but doesn't that mean you'll be using the fsa03 only?
[17:54] <m1x10> and today esawdust mailed me and told me that he wont sell any other
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[17:55] <m1x10> so im in the search of a fsa03+breakout
[17:55] <m1x10> DanielRichman: I played so much with ublox that I dont want to leave it and try to learn another one
[17:56] <m1x10> plus its awesome
[17:57] <m1x10> I will try to persuade someone from here to sell me his esaedust.com module
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[18:01] <eroomde> Lassen iQs aren't nearly as robust as gps engines
[18:01] <eroomde> they're left for dead by ublox's in terms of dynamic performance and sensitivity
[18:02] <eroomde> that said the iQs served us well for about 10 flights on badger 1
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[18:25] <jiffe1> you guys played with the gs407 at all?
[18:29] <eroomde> not specifically but it seems to be just a ublox 5 with a helical antenna
[18:30] <eroomde> which is fairly common around here
[18:33] <jan_bangna> anyone tried the mbed controller? just got a free one by mail today, pretty interesting
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[18:33] <jonsowman> jan_bangna: Randomskk has, have a talk to him
[18:34] <jonsowman> I tried to get a free one but haven't heard anything
[18:34] <eroomde> you know simon lives in camb jonsowman ?
[18:34] <eroomde> i had curry with him about a month ago
[18:34] <jonsowman> simon?
[18:35] <eroomde> simon ford
[18:35] <eroomde> who invented mbed
[18:35] <jonsowman> ahh
[18:35] <jonsowman> I didn't know he lived here
[18:35] <eroomde> i'm sure he'd just give you one
[18:35] <jonsowman> I'll send a polite email
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[18:37] <jan_bangna> 512 kb flash is pretty cool, also programming via usb drag and drop. like a memory stick
[18:38] <jan_bangna> very impressed
[18:39] <eroomde> yeah moving to arm7s i remember was a bit of an eye opener
[18:40] <eroomde> never have to worry about running out of flash again
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[19:05] <Laurenceb> hi
[19:07] <stilldavid> so should I get a ZP balloon?
[19:08] <Laurenceb> if you can, of course
[19:08] <Laurenceb> where you gong to find one
[19:08] <stilldavid> talking to a guy doing an order with Great Western and might +1 their order
[19:09] <stilldavid> er, global western
[19:10] <stilldavid> what would be a good radio for the best range at 40k feet over many kilometers?
[19:11] <eroomde> on the balloon?
[19:13] <stilldavid> yeah
[19:13] <eroomde> got a ham license?
[19:13] <stilldavid> I guess something HF?
[19:13] <stilldavid> affirmative.
[19:13] <eroomde> well the sky's the limit
[19:13] <stilldavid> har har :P
[19:13] <eroomde> no reason we won't be able to hear it over here if you have decent propagation
[19:14] <eroomde> 20m with 3W and we'll be tracking it
[19:14] <stilldavid> 3W? should I plan on solar recharging?
[19:14] <eroomde> i'm probably exagerating
[19:14] <eroomde> do you actually want thousands of miles?
[19:15] <eroomde> i.e. a transatlantic attempt
[19:15] <stilldavid> well, I'm not sure where I'd launch it from
[19:15] <eroomde> or do you just want very good locaL coverage
[19:15] <stilldavid> I'm thinking western US (california) and seeing if it will drift over the continental US-ish
[19:15] <eroomde> cos things like 6m (50MHz) are super fashionable at the moment
[19:15] <stilldavid> well, I certainly want to do what the cool kids are doing!
[19:15] <eroomde> and people have been able to get across the atlantic
[19:16] <eroomde> exactly
[19:16] <eroomde> hipster hab is where it's at
[19:16] <stilldavid> from UK -> US, though, right?
[19:16] <eroomde> I would say talk to bill brown as he is probably the world expert on HF on balloons
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[19:16] <eroomde> uk to us on 6m, right
[19:16] <stilldavid> wb8elk, yeah?
[19:16] <eroomde> but i mean the other way too
[19:17] <eroomde> yeah
[19:17] <stilldavid> cool. It'll be a while no doubt, but I'm ordering the balloon this week.
[19:17] <eroomde> cos basically whilst you gain potential propagation and minimise freespace path loss, you make it a lot more annoying to track in the car
[19:17] <eroomde> and here's a for instance for you:
[19:17] <eroomde> we were testing the 10MHz transmitter to antlantic corssing project last year
[19:18] <stilldavid> might be fun to track across the US over a long weekend or something
[19:18] <eroomde> i was at the same site as the balloon (tethered) and could obviously here it fine
[19:18] <eroomde> i then drove 6 miles away to where i was living and couldn't hear a thing
[19:18] <eroomde> 40 miles away in london jcoxon could not hear a thing either
[19:18] <stilldavid> don't tell me, you drove another 10 miles and heard it agian?
[19:18] <stilldavid> hah, yeah
[19:19] <eroomde> but went onto hamradio irc channel to ask, and it was as loud as anything in germany
[19:19] <stilldavid> that's so weird.
[19:19] <eroomde> so yes, propagation can be a funny animal
[19:19] <stilldavid> what kind of antenna and how high was it tethered?
[19:19] <eroomde> a perfect dipole (the joy of balloons) and it was tethered about 30m above the ground
[19:20] <Laurenceb> problem with zero pressure is you need ballast
[19:20] <Laurenceb> to stay up for more than a day
[19:21] <stilldavid> oh yeah? so, release something at night to stay afloat?
[19:21] <Laurenceb> yes, and its not trivial to control
[19:21] <Laurenceb> but i shouldnt see it being that hard
[19:21] <eroomde> would make a cool sf write-up
[19:22] <stilldavid> this is my personal hobby, regardless...
[19:22] <eroomde> :)
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[19:23] Action: stilldavid called for backup :)
[19:23] <brennen> howdy peoples.
[19:23] <eroomde> hi brennen
[19:23] <stilldavid> brennen will be working on this with me
[19:23] <eroomde> not the same brennen as the one who appears in the back of all the magazines i buy?
[19:23] <eroomde> ah right cool
[19:24] <stilldavid> (look at our hostnames)
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[19:24] <stilldavid> but yeah, cross country ZP, maybe ballast, 1W (?) 6m radio, possible serial camera downlink?
[19:25] <eroomde> forethought.net
[19:25] <Laurenceb> is jcoxon still launching?
[19:25] <stilldavid> well, he's sitting about 2m away from me, that's all.
[19:25] <eroomde> saturday week i beleive
[19:25] <eroomde> ah i see
[19:25] <Laurenceb> ok, from cambridge?
[19:25] <eroomde> i beleive so
[19:25] <Laurenceb> i might come along.. will have to see
[19:26] <Laurenceb> try doing some sdr receiving
[19:26] <eroomde> stilldavid: yeah i think 50Mhz has some nice properties
[19:26] <eroomde> convenient for mobile, not so very wierd on the propagation
[19:26] <eroomde> but still nice low free-space path loss
[19:26] <stilldavid> has anyone ever recovered a ZP payload?
[19:26] <stilldavid> in this circle, not _any_one necessarily
[19:26] <eroomde> i'm not going Laurenceb. firework parties down south
[19:27] <brennen> put a bunch of postage in the box, maybe?
[19:27] <eroomde> ?
[19:27] <stilldavid> so people can send it back :)
[19:28] <eroomde> oic
[19:29] <eroomde> going across the states could be a good way of doing long duration tests whilst still having listeners
[19:30] <eroomde> i think APRS might be a good telem system to consider in parallel so you actually get regular pos updates through a well established infrastructure
[19:32] <Dave-M0MYA> evening folks
[19:33] <eroomde> hi Dave-M0MYA
[19:33] <Dave-M0MYA> I was hoping to picks somebody's brains.
[19:33] <eroomde> do
[19:33] <stilldavid> eroomde, APRS is definitely a good backu[
[19:33] <eroomde> you're in kiddy!
[19:33] <Dave-M0MYA> I'm trying to find a supplier of connectors for the Lassen iQ
[19:33] <eroomde> (sorry qrz'd you)
[19:33] <Dave-M0MYA> well, close too - about 11 miles to the west
[19:34] <eroomde> i have a few friends there
[19:34] <Dave-M0MYA> heh =)
[19:34] <Dave-M0MYA> cool!
[19:34] <eroomde> Do you midn ordering from the states?
[19:34] <Dave-M0MYA> unlucky for them tho :-P
[19:34] <eroomde> so they say
[19:34] <Dave-M0MYA> I'll order from wherever if I can find the darned things!
[19:34] <eroomde> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=170
[19:35] <jonsowman> http://www.dpieshop.com/trimble-lassen-iq-12-channel-gps-module-p-237.html
[19:35] <jonsowman> oh
[19:35] <jonsowman> connectors.
[19:35] <jonsowman> sorry.
[19:35] <eroomde> actually we may have some in the lab
[19:35] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, you stars
[19:35] <eroomde> jonsowman will have a look for you :p
[19:35] <eroomde> (I'm down in sussex atm)
[19:35] <Dave-M0MYA> wow, cheers!
[19:35] <jonsowman> i shall
[19:35] <Dave-M0MYA> ahhh
[19:36] <jonsowman> will have a look in the lab tomorrow Dave-M0MYA
[19:36] <Dave-M0MYA> thanks jonsowman, very much appreciated
[19:36] <jonsowman> do you want the 8-pin to flying lead or the PCB header?
[19:36] <Dave-M0MYA> there must be a better way to insert a person's nick than typing it out? Its been years since I was on irc =(
[19:37] <jonsowman> tab complete
[19:37] <Dave-M0MYA> flying lead would be preferrable
[19:37] <jonsowman> jo + <tab>
[19:37] <Dave-M0MYA> ahhh
[19:37] <eroomde> i can't promise we have some but I almost always order a couple more connectors than we need for projects so i would be surprised if we didn't
[19:37] <Dave-M0MYA> cheers
[19:37] <Dave-M0MYA> that very good of you, thank you
[19:37] <jonsowman> alright I'll check tomorrow
[19:37] <jonsowman> no probs
[19:38] <eroomde> so are you working on a HAB Dave-M0MYA ?
[19:38] <Dave-M0MYA> yes indeedy
[19:38] <eroomde> awesome
[19:39] <Dave-M0MYA> it may be slow progress, I'm not the world's greatest programmer, but I love to tinker and I'm fairly practical
[19:40] <eroomde> it's much more about getting something done than programming skills. which is a good thing and a bad.
[19:41] <Dave-M0MYA> I'm currently amassing bits - lassen iQ, arduino mega (going to be robbing up the ferret tracker code), NTX-2 and 300 ohm ladderline slimjim for telemetry. I'm erring on the side of analogue sensors at the moment cos bitmath is a bit inimidating!
[19:41] <Dave-M0MYA> and of couse, the venerable A560 for piccies while it's up there!
[19:41] <jonsowman> dont trust the ferret code implicitly
[19:42] <jonsowman> it was hacked together in literally 6 hours and was only really meant for one flight
[19:42] <eroomde> parents are allowed to be rude about their children
[19:42] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:42] <Dave-M0MYA> I read about the short development. Quite astounding really!
[19:43] <jonsowman> im slighly concerned that people will assume it Just Works and then be upset if it doesn;t
[19:43] <eroomde> might be worth turning into A Project
[19:44] <jonsowman> yes Randomskk and I have been planning to make a PCB-ferret
[19:44] <jonsowman> we've got some of the CUSF newbies making arduino trackers at the moment
[19:45] <jonsowman> bought a few Unos and a Mega
[19:45] <eroomde> cool
[19:45] <eroomde> oh we need a new avr dragon
[19:45] <jonsowman> oh yes
[19:45] <eroomde> i think dan spaffed the old one
[19:45] <eroomde> or iain
[19:46] <jonsowman> Iain was talking about that the other day
[19:46] <Dave-M0MYA> it does seem a nice platform for folk like me with only a small amount of programming/MCU experience
[19:46] <jonsowman> I'll leave that one to Iain I think
[19:46] <eroomde> he had a sticker on saying 'exposed to bad mojo'
[19:46] <jonsowman> haha I saw
[19:46] <jonsowman> Dave-M0MYA: yes they're perfectly fine :)
[19:46] <eroomde> and i couldn't get it to work
[19:46] <jonsowman> no I think the general concensus is that it's FUBAR'd
[19:47] <eroomde> i need one myself actually
[19:47] <eroomde> the last one i bought with my own money
[19:48] <eroomde> :(
[19:48] <Randomskk> I hear cusf is getting a new ic7000 too
[19:48] <Randomskk> you could have your [broken] one back
[19:48] <Randomskk> any idea what happened to its speaker?
[19:48] <jonsowman> Randomskk: oh?
[19:49] <eroomde> er no
[19:49] <jonsowman> was this something I missed at the meeting
[19:49] <eroomde> i'm getting the new one
[19:49] <Randomskk> hehe
[19:49] <eroomde> and cusf is keeping the one they broke
[19:49] <Dave-M0MYA> while I'm picking brains, is anyone away of a source of the 434.075MHz NTX2 in the UK other than Radiometrix? I rang them today and they have one in stock, but they are not sure it physically exists!
[19:49] <Randomskk> eroomde: seems like you could do the same with the dragon :P
[19:49] <jonsowman> farnell?
[19:49] <Randomskk> Dave-M0MYA: farnell?
[19:49] <Randomskk> pfft
[19:49] <eroomde> i asked iain and dan about that yesterday - i'm hankering for a radio
[19:49] <Dave-M0MYA> it seems not - not on the right QRG
[19:50] <jonsowman> Dave-M0MYA: what freq you after?
[19:50] <jonsowman> does it have to be .075?
[19:50] <eroomde> Randomskk: do you know if the money is there yet for the radio?
[19:51] <Randomskk> aiui jon (not sowman) is buying it and claiming on expenses or something
[19:51] <Randomskk> in the next n days for n<some
[19:51] <Dave-M0MYA> jonsowman: I'm not wholly abreast of the requirements laid down by ofcom, but I think thats the right freq for telemtry downlink?
[19:51] <eroomde> ok cool
[19:51] <jonsowman> you can use any of the LPD433 bands
[19:51] <Randomskk> Dave-M0MYA: just 434MHz, the .075 is one of the two default freqs radiometrix use
[19:51] <jonsowman> but avoid 433.920
[19:51] <eroomde> might want to get a psu too as that's mine too
[19:51] <Randomskk> (also it's not really 434.0 to 434.999)
[19:52] <Randomskk> eroomde: will let them know. think there's a few lab psus lying around there now though
[19:52] <Randomskk> I now have a psu for mine, it's good times
[19:52] <Dave-M0MYA> ahhhh
[19:52] <jonsowman> Dave-M0MYA: the 434.650 NTX2 is quite common and also fine to use
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[19:52] <Dave-M0MYA> cheers jonsowman, good to know
[19:52] <Dave-M0MYA> i think thats the freq farnell carry
[19:52] <jonsowman> that'll be fine then
[19:53] <Dave-M0MYA> good stuff!
[19:53] <Randomskk> in totally unrelated news, farmville is now worth more than EA
[19:53] <jonsowman> :o
[19:53] <Dave-M0MYA> crazy
[19:54] <brennen> what.
[19:55] <Randomskk> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-10-26/zynga-tops-electronic-arts-as-social-games-spread.html
[19:55] <jonsowman> sad panda.
[20:01] <Dave-M0MYA> well folks, its been a pleasure to meet you - you're as friendly as various websites claim! Must go and help Geoff 2E0BTR sort out maps for tomorrows SOTA summits - there are cries of a broken inkjet coming from upstairs. Thanks for your help
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[20:02] <Laurenceb> they are both a waste of time
[20:02] <Laurenceb> at least EA does some work to improve the state of the art
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[20:04] Action: Laurenceb isnt a gamer
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[20:10] <jcoxon> evening
[20:11] <m1x10> hi
[20:16] <stilldavid> so who makes good low power hf transmitters?
[20:17] <eroomde> DIY!!!
[20:17] <eroomde> gosh sorry
[20:17] <eroomde> sore throat
[20:17] Action: stilldavid knows nothing about radios
[20:17] <stilldavid> remember? I just pretend.
[20:18] <stilldavid> or: link to schematic please :)
[20:19] <eroomde> i'm not sure myself actually. dxzone is a good place to look
[20:24] <eroomde> you could do something awesome with a DDS chip (direct digital synthesis) thought power consumption is higher
[20:24] <jcoxon> like darkside's hf tx
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[20:25] <stilldavid> jcoxon, oh?
[20:35] <W0OTM> howdy
[20:36] <jcoxon> stilldavid, you'd have to speak with him about it
[20:36] <jcoxon> but its pretty cool
[20:41] <eroomde> howdy W0OTM
[20:41] <fsphil> trans-atlantic is possible on 6m?
[20:42] <W0OTM> eroomde: whats new?
[20:43] <eroomde> fsphil: yep
[20:43] <eroomde> not reliably so
[20:43] <eroomde> W0OTM: nothing with me on the hab front
[20:43] <fsphil> that's neat
[20:43] <eroomde> you?
[20:44] <W0OTM> umm, working on repeater controllers
[20:44] <eroomde> nice.
[20:44] <W0OTM> also just got done update upsite
[20:44] <W0OTM> with new iHAB Merchandise
[20:45] <eroomde> link us up
[20:46] <W0OTM> http://www.ihabproject.com
[20:48] <eroomde> cool
[20:49] <W0OTM> im so behind on work, I need to spend several days in front of the puter & soldering iron
[20:49] <W0OTM> lol
[20:49] <eroomde> i know the feeling
[20:50] <eroomde> i'm having a break from work at the moment (happy position to be in) but i've busted my knee so have not much to do other than be back infront of a computer
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[21:05] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[21:16] <fsphil> pong m1x10
[21:16] <m1x10> hey
[21:16] <m1x10> whats up?
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[21:17] <m1x10> found something interesting and I want your opinion: http://www.linksprite.com/product/showproduct.php?id=58&lang=en
[21:17] <m1x10> read the specs
[21:17] <m1x10> first 2 lines
[21:17] <m1x10> it support those things because of the IR thing? or it is a better camera?
[21:18] <fsphil> strange device - analogue and jpeg
[21:18] <fsphil> it's almost certainly the same camera
[21:18] <m1x10> what do u mean analogue? its TTL
[21:18] <fsphil> it is, but it also has proper analogue video output on one of the pins
[21:19] <fsphil> you could connect it to a telly
[21:19] <m1x10> yes that pin exists to my cam too
[21:19] <fsphil> that's neat
[21:19] <m1x10> ok thats not the point
[21:19] <m1x10> about that specs
[21:19] <fsphil> all camera should do those things
[21:20] <fsphil> the IR only means it can work in the dark
[21:20] <m1x10> yes
[21:20] <m1x10> right
[21:20] <m1x10> but
[21:20] <m1x10> in the previous camera
[21:20] <m1x10> they dont write such stuff
[21:20] <m1x10> the one I have
[21:20] <m1x10> http://www.linksprite.com/product/showproduct.php?id=50&lang=en
[21:22] <fsphil> the camera must do those things anyway, or you would not get a picture most of the time
[21:22] <m1x10> I dont want to believe that is a marketing trick
[21:22] <m1x10> I've already mail them
[21:22] <fsphil> if it didn't have automatic gain, then it might be too bright during the day and you would only see a pure white image
[21:22] <m1x10> sounds strange
[21:23] <fsphil> I believe the only difference is the addition of the IR LEDs
[21:23] <fsphil> which you won't need, and probably would make for bad colour anyway
[21:24] <fsphil> (and I don't have the breakout board for the fsa03 - soldered the wires directly)
[21:25] <m1x10> oh ok
[21:25] <m1x10> facepalm again
[21:25] <fsphil> though it looks a bit fragile
[21:26] <m1x10> the IR LEDS are not switched off when its daylight?
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[21:26] <m1x10> they remain on?
[21:26] <fsphil> possibly, depends on the board
[21:26] <fsphil> the last one I had the LEDs where always on
[21:26] <m1x10> pff thats terrible
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[21:27] <fsphil> yea though it was a black + white camera so it didn't really cause any problems
[21:27] <m1x10> oh lol
[21:27] <m1x10> i guess image size was very little
[21:27] <fsphil> in my nestbox camera, with the IR LEDs on the colour camera only shows green
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[21:27] <fsphil> I have to turn off the IR LEDs during the day or I don't get any colour at all
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[21:29] <m1x10> it did have a switch
[21:29] <m1x10> ?
[21:29] <m1x10> I think using a simple photoresistor its simple to control it
[21:30] <fsphil> sorta, I have a little circuit in the box I control via serial
[21:30] <fsphil> I can control the brightness of all the lights
[21:30] <m1x10> heh
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[21:31] <m1x10> ok I must go
[21:31] <m1x10> c ya!
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[21:31] <fsphil> Apparantely you can see through haze and mist better with IR, could be useful for HAB'ing
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[21:32] <jcoxon> fsphil, currently testing the idea of repeating the string
[21:32] <jcoxon> as in the tx string
[21:33] <jcoxon> then having gaps between
[21:34] <fsphil> nice - how often are you thinking of repeating it?
[21:34] <jcoxon> only twice
[21:34] <jcoxon> but i'm just testing powering down the ntx2 in the big gaps
[21:35] <jcoxon> repeating it twice actually means that there isn't that large a gap between
[21:36] <fsphil> shame the gap can't be used for something
[21:36] <fsphil> even idle characters
[21:37] <fsphil> so there'd be no break in the stream
[21:37] <jcoxon> but i'm purposely powering down the ntx2 to save power
[21:38] <fsphil> could just repeat the string the once
[21:38] <jcoxon> so currently every 30 seconds i tx the string twice (with a 500 micro second gap)
[21:38] <jcoxon> i mean millisecond
[21:38] <jcoxon> but 2 strings + that gap mean that i'm only powering down the radio for 6 seconds
[21:39] <fsphil> why that small gap?
[21:39] <jcoxon> just to keep the strings seperate
[21:40] <fsphil> fldigi might handle it better if the bitstream continues unbroken into the second string
[21:41] <jcoxon> fair enough
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[21:42] <fsphil> if the signal is weak may miss the first few characters before it locks onto it
[21:42] <fsphil> +it
[21:42] <fsphil> the way fldigi handles that isn't all that good
[21:42] <fsphil> far too easy to upset it
[21:45] <Darkside> hmm
[21:45] <Darkside> if i set up dl-fldigi sending data today, can i get it shown on the tracker?
[21:45] <jcoxon> sure
[21:45] <jcoxon> don't need to activate anything
[21:45] <Darkside> heh
[21:46] <jcoxon> that said if you want me to stop testing my payload i will
[21:46] <Darkside> nah its ok
[21:46] <Darkside> this is just for a project exhibition
[21:46] <Darkside> ill be transmitting the entire time :P
[21:47] <Darkside> just thought it would be cool to show the tracker going
[21:47] <Darkside> assuming i get gps lock
[21:48] <Darkside> i wont be in the best area for it, also my tx antenna will be dodgy as hell
[21:48] <Darkside> im hoping i dont blow up my power amp with bad SWR :/
[21:48] <jcoxon> you got a receiver then
[21:48] <jcoxon> ?
[21:49] <Darkside> yeah
[21:49] <Darkside> yaesu shortwave receiver
[21:49] <Darkside> it will be in the same room at the transmitter lol
[21:49] <jcoxon> cool well then just need to run dl-fldigi with an internet conncetion
[21:49] <Darkside> i also set up a radio at home too, but it might not be tuned right
[21:49] <Darkside> yeah
[21:49] <fsphil> you might not even need an antenna at that range
[21:50] <Darkside> hahaha i wont :P
[21:50] <Darkside> also, theres other project in the area, some operating on HF :P
[21:50] <Darkside> one group is doing HF RFID stuff :D
[21:50] <Darkside> i hope to well and truly de-sense their receiver
[21:51] <fsphil> haha, cruel
[21:51] <Darkside> :D
[21:51] <fsphil> HF RFID seems an odd combination
[21:51] <Darkside> nah
[21:51] <Darkside> 13mhz ism band
[21:51] <jcoxon> yeah isn't rfid often hf
[21:51] <Darkside> its quite common
[21:51] <fsphil> ah cool, I always assumed it was uhf
[21:52] <Darkside> the uni also has 255khz rfid everywhere
[21:52] <Darkside> hopefully i wont screw with that
[21:52] <Darkside> :D
[21:53] <Darkside> oh yeah - cool tying about my project - i can very easily retune it
[21:53] <Darkside> so might code in some freq hopping :P
[21:53] <Darkside> just to screw with people
[21:55] <Darkside> hmm, amp wont be tuned for that freq tho :(
[21:55] <fsphil> ack, ISS was active
[21:55] <fsphil> just missed it
[21:56] <Darkside> heh
[22:00] <fsphil> it'll be over you shortly
[22:03] <Darkside> freq?
[22:03] <fsphil> 145.800
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[22:04] <Darkside> how dar away
[22:04] <Darkside> far
[22:05] <Darkside> how much time do i have
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[22:05] <fsphil> it's almost at the half way mark...
[22:05] <Darkside> ok
[22:05] <fsphil> I guess about 30 minutes
[22:06] <Darkside> fuking intermod from pagers
[22:06] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: Hear ISS just now?
[22:06] <Darkside> the pager tx is 500m away
[22:07] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, just heard the tail end of it "November Alpha 1 ... "
[22:08] <Darkside> well my handheld is tuned
[22:08] Action: LazyLeopard wasn't quite organised enough to get a call in, but heard a number of confirmations of other calls...
[22:08] <Darkside> dunno if ill be able to hear it on thay
[22:08] <fsphil> should be okie, I can hear it indoors though it's not brilliant
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[22:11] <Darkside> fsphil: how long
[22:11] <fsphil> which city are you nearest?
[22:12] <Darkside> adelaide
[22:12] <fsphil> 16 minutes
[22:13] <Darkside> ok
[22:13] <Darkside> im waiting lol
[22:13] <fsphil> it's over India
[22:13] <Darkside> heh
[22:14] <Elwell> some good passes over europe earlier tonight, but didn't turn radio on
[22:15] <Darkside> fsphil: how long will the flyby be?
[22:16] <Elwell> bout 8 mins?
[22:16] <Darkside> ok
[22:16] <fsphil> yea about that
[22:16] <Darkside> hopefully ill get a better antenna in time
[22:17] <Elwell> next pass over here actually is nice n high. hmm.
[22:17] <fsphil> it'll be over the south south west horizon .. not terribly high
[22:17] <Darkside> hmm ok
[22:17] <Darkside> vertical antenna then
[22:17] <Darkside> whag elevation?
[22:18] <fsphil> 6 deg
[22:18] <Darkside> fuuuu
[22:18] <Darkside> thats shit
[22:19] <fsphil> yea it looked better than it is -- but you should still hear them if they're chatting
[22:19] <Elwell> yeah - its only that the next one here is 60 that I'm contempating digging out the handheld
[22:19] <Darkside> ok
[22:19] <Darkside> will the next pass be better?
[22:20] <fsphil> 7 deg
[22:20] <Darkside> meh
[22:20] <fsphil> the one after that is 47 deg
[22:20] <fsphil> 03:17 UTC
[22:20] <Darkside> ooh
[22:20] <Darkside> thats better
[22:20] <Darkside> 1:47pm
[22:20] <Elwell> what times are they active normally?
[22:20] <fsphil> they might be asleep then
[22:20] <Darkside> bah
[22:21] <fsphil> not sure, I read in a few places they use UTC - but someone else recently mentioned they are using EST for some things
[22:22] <fsphil> 6 mins
[22:23] <jcoxon> oops
[22:23] <Darkside> ok
[22:23] <Darkside> im listening
[22:23] <jcoxon> purchasing oversight - may have run out of nice molex connectors - lost the last bunch in on BH5
[22:24] <fsphil> oops indeed
[22:24] Action: jcoxon starts salvaging
[22:24] <fsphil> those little polarised headers?
[22:24] <jcoxon> the ones that you put hte little crimps into
[22:25] <jcoxon> connect to 0.1" headers
[22:25] <fsphil> ah yea I love those, nice and tidy
[22:26] <fsphil> iss footprint is covering western australia
[22:27] <LazyLeopard> Well, two thirds of it. ;)
[22:29] <fsphil> okie Darkside, anytime now for the next 6 minutes
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[22:32] <LazyLeopard> Fairly low to the south of you, I'd guess...
[22:36] <fsphil> yea I'd say it's pretty much out of range now
[22:40] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Covering NZ well now.
[22:41] <fsphil> anyhoo, night all!
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[23:07] <Darkside> juxta: im TXing lol
[23:07] <Darkside> at uni
[23:07] <juxta> ah, no wonder there are police sirens everywhere then
[23:08] <juxta> :)
[23:08] <Darkside> pfff
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[23:08] <Darkside> i might turn off the power amp for a bit :P
[23:08] <juxta> ping jonsowman
[23:08] <Darkside> i can't tell how warm its getting
[23:13] <juxta> i'm looking at natrium's code for the dynamic predictor
[23:13] <juxta> as it turns out calculating the density at a given altitude is rather involved
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[23:22] <SpeedEvil> There is a nice model somewhere on NASAs website.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> Which takes lat/lon/season/...
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> In fortran
[23:26] <Darkside> juxta: i got gps lock for a second lol
[23:26] <Darkside> and bad lock
[23:26] <juxta> SpeedEvil, hmm - i just want a rough approximation really
[23:27] <juxta> natrium's got a couple of methods, both seem to work at low alts, only one seems to work high up
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Find a nice model, run it, output 0-50km in .5km
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> linearly interpolate
[23:29] <juxta> hmm
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[23:52] <Laurenceb> i used the 1974 standard atmospheric model
[23:53] <Laurenceb> got a pdf of the document and created a lookup table, up to 120km or something iirc
[23:55] <Laurenceb> -for rocket sim code
[23:55] <juxta> looks like natrium's model on the tracker does upto 85kmish
[23:56] <juxta> do you have a copy of the table you created Laurenceb?
[23:58] <Laurenceb> not on here, sorry
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[23:59] <juxta> no worries
[00:00] --- Fri Oct 29 2010