highaltitude.log.20101026

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[07:00] <earthshine> morning
[07:00] <jcoxon> morning
[07:05] <Darkside> sup all
[07:06] <Darkside> jcoxon: reckon it woudl be possible to add the option for custom RTTY baud rates into dl-fldigi?
[07:06] Action: jcoxon is currently quiting facebook
[07:06] <Darkside> so we can experiment with live higher baud rates
[07:06] <Darkside> i.e. 600 baud, or higher (though i know fldigi's 8KHz sampling limit causes issues)
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[07:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:08] <jcoxon> Darkside, if you setup a github account then you can contribute code really easily
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[07:14] <jcoxon> and then if it works i'll pull it into the my main github repository thingy
[07:16] <Darkside> heh
[07:16] <Darkside> i'd need to write hte code first
[07:16] <Darkside> not that i have any idea how to
[07:16] <Darkside> fsphil has already got code to do 600 baud
[07:16] <jcoxon> okay well if he uploads it to github i'll include it
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[07:44] <jcoxon> hmmm some how i've gone backwards in my coding
[07:44] <jcoxon> so i've backpedalled on some changes and now it doesn't work even more
[07:44] <jcoxon> grr
[07:45] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/agDnP.png <- just rewritten the resampling /wav stream code in c, uses a few % of cpu now
[07:45] <Laurenceb> libsamplerate is really nice
[07:49] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/1249461
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[08:56] <juxta-> ping Darkside
[09:04] <earthshine> jcoxon: What service do you use for your OCB's ?
[09:04] <earthshine> PCBs
[09:06] <juxta-> earthshine, I think he uses seeedstudio's fusion pcb service
[09:06] <earthshine> ahh ok
[09:10] <jcoxon> yeah i do
[09:10] <jcoxon> cheap but take ages in the post
[09:17] <Darkside> juxta-: pong
[09:17] <juxta-> heya Darkside
[09:17] <juxta-> I saw your skype message earlier - I'll get that recording to you soon
[09:17] <Darkside> cool
[09:17] <juxta-> I havent been home since yesterday arvo though
[09:18] <Darkside> heh
[09:18] <juxta-> as soon as I get back I'll do it and email it though :)
[09:18] <Darkside> :)
[09:18] <Darkside> did you see the minikits link?
[09:18] <Darkside> 8w amp for UHF :P
[09:18] <Darkside> at 20mW in
[09:21] <Darkside> ugh north terrace is screwed
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[09:25] <juxta-> ooh, I've not seen that Darkside
[09:25] <juxta-> link?
[09:27] <Darkside> its on minikits somewhere
[09:27] <Darkside> im on my n900 atm
[09:27] <Darkside> bit hard to get it
[09:27] <Laurenceb_> i got boards back in 10 days
[09:27] Action: Laurenceb_ needs to get an n900
[09:29] <jcoxon> juxta-, was the launch a success then?
[09:29] <Darkside> mmmmr dont
[09:29] <jcoxon> was away last weekend
[09:29] <juxta-> jcoxon - great thanks! :)
[09:29] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: whats up with it?
[09:29] <juxta-> thanks for sorting out the modules by the way!
[09:30] <jcoxon> oooo sprintf is evil - finally worked out what was wrong with my program
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[09:30] <jcoxon> juxta-, no worries, haven't yet sent them yet
[09:30] <jcoxon> looks like they made some new ones for us
[09:30] <jcoxon> hence the delay
[09:30] <juxta-> hehe
[09:30] <Darkside> http://www.minikits.com.au/kits2.html#mseries
[09:30] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: slow
[09:31] <juxta-> we're evaluating some alternative modules soon jcoxon, frm a japanese manufacturer, should be a bit cheaper
[09:31] <Darkside> get a newer android phone instead
[09:31] <juxta-> will let you know how they go
[09:31] <jcoxon> interesting
[09:31] <jcoxon> circuitdesign?
[09:31] <Darkside> juxta-: theres a 7w 70cm amp on that page
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[09:32] <juxta-> will check it out Darkside
[09:33] <juxta-> jcoxon, not sure of the name, will look it up again tomorrow :)
[09:45] <jcoxon> no worries
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[10:23] <juxta-> jcoxon: when are you thinking of launching again?
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[11:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/25/vulture_1_wrap/page3.html <-lmao
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:18] <earthshine> wtf is that?!
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> the paris
[11:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/22/ipood/
[11:24] <russss> they're using APRS to track it?
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> yes, looks like it
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> lots of power as well
[11:24] <russss> are they very optimistic with their link loss budget or breaking the law?
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> chipcon + power amp
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> breaking the law
[11:24] <russss> ah yes, I see
[11:24] <russss> 100mW
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> aiui they are doing ax25 with a pic and chipcon
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[11:48] Action: Laurenceb_ is wondering if he could desolder the sma connector from a cc eval board with a hot air tool
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[11:49] <Laurenceb_> http://media.digikey.com/photos/Texas%20Instr%20Photos/CC1100EMK-868.JPG
[11:49] <Laurenceb_> looks pretty much like that - smd sma header
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> kind of impossible to desolder with an iron
[11:51] <russss> hotplate job
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking swap for a right angle version, but im not sur ehtey exist
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> aha http://www.connectorcity.com/diagrams/RP-MCX/CONREVMCX002-SMD-L.pdf
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> just need to find it somewhere nicer
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[13:06] <jcoxon> nice email from the guys who launched spacebits.eu balloons on the weekend saying thanks for hte predictor
[13:30] <jcoxon> so the problem i've been fighting with for the last 24hrs is most likely due to the code i but in to debug the system
[13:30] <jcoxon> typical
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[13:54] <Laurenceb_> what are you working on?
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[15:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.eso.org/~sguisard/Pagim/darkest_sky.html <-wow
[15:13] <russss> I thought I posted that in here yesterday but I think I just posted it in every other channel I'm in.
[15:13] <russss> it's awesome
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> ah so the milky way is the stuff around the horison
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> and the band ios zodiacal light, pretty cool
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[15:22] <russss> not zodiacal light, gegenschein (which is different, and fainter)
[15:23] <russss> he managed to find a place/time where zodiacal light wasn't visible so the sky was darker
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[15:51] <Laurenceb_> what the difference?
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[17:33] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Watching the weather, hope it will be good for a launch on Sunday. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/28811061608]
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[18:39] Action: Laurenceb is making an enclosure for the cc sdr
[18:40] <Laurenceb> was origionally going to use a sma connector.. thinking maybe bnc now
[18:40] <Laurenceb> *originally
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[18:46] <SpeedEvil> an enclosure?
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> you mean for the ev board.
[18:48] <Laurenceb> yeah, im going to remove the pin headers and vertical smd sma connector
[18:48] <Laurenceb> then put some stripboard in there with an avr and ftdi
[18:49] <Laurenceb> ive got some aluminium enclosures from seedstudio
[18:49] <vaulner> hey guys, i'm sort of new to hab
[18:49] <vaulner> i'd need some diagrams for arduino mega
[18:49] <vaulner> could you help me?
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[18:51] <Hibby> evening
[18:54] <eroomde> vaulner: hi. what sort of diagrams?
[18:54] <eroomde> hi Hibby
[18:55] Action: Hibby is just sticking his nose in, after having come across the legal battle that is ham radio/Ofcom/HAB
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> 'We' largely sidestep it by using 433/10mW
[18:56] <eroomde> Hibby: yes lots of fun. Have sort of given up with that one
[18:56] <Hibby> Indeed. I'm manager at a uni sat tracking ground station and one of our groups were hoping to use it to track their ballon.
[18:56] <eroomde> Hibby: which uni and what sort of sats do you track?
[18:56] <Hibby> we've got some pretty sensitive equipment for 144 // 430mhz
[18:56] <Hibby> Strathclyde up in Glasgow, and anything on 144MHz and 430MH\
[18:56] <eroomde> ah right
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> We've done 550km on 10mW
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> at 50bps
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> Distributed listener network - though most in england.
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> The above listener was in ireland.
[18:57] <Hibby> They were asking about a cambridge launch today, actually
[18:57] <eroomde> you presumably know the clyde space guys then
[18:57] <vaulner> eroomde: i would need some soldering diagrams
[18:57] <Hibby> yeah, they pump money into me :)
[18:58] <vaulner> i feel kind of lost with electronics atm
[18:58] <eroomde> nice
[18:59] <eroomde> vaulner: unhelpful as it is, I'm very much of the opinion that it's worth actually understanding what's going on with electronics (which is really not that much once you spend some time on it) when doing a HAB
[18:59] <eroomde> rather than just flat-pack instructions
[18:59] <eroomde> Hibby: was there a cambridge launch todaY?
[19:00] <Hibby> eroomde: nah, the group were asking me today whether I could listen if they lanched from Cambridge
[19:00] <eroomde> ah ok
[19:00] <eroomde> wouldn't have surprised me though as i'm completely behind the times on hab atm
[19:01] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: have you ever managed to hear anything from oop there?
[19:01] <eroomde> I think it'll take some helpful sporadic E (my favourite name for any phenomenon) to beat the 550km record
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Actually - no
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I do get line of sight for english launches
[19:02] <eroomde> vaulner: so let's try and work through what you've got - what components do you have so far?
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Once they clear 25km or so.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> All I'd need is a yagi and a rx
[19:02] <eroomde> from cambridge?
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:02] <eroomde> impressive
[19:04] <Hibby> well, no great loss - all my kit works on 433 happily
[19:04] <eroomde> Hibby: what sort of antenna set-up do you have?
[19:05] <vaulner> eroomde: right now i only have radiometrix ntx2 and i'm looking for a t68i
[19:05] <vaulner> and i have to buy arduino mega and a gps
[19:05] <eroomde> just we tend to have simple vertical polarisation so c-pol rigs you might have on an az-el for sats might not be so optimal
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> Seen http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide Hibby?
[19:06] <Hibby> SpeedEvil: I've made my way through the wiki recently, aye... sad times for me and my kit, lol
[19:06] <eroomde> vaulner: ok cool. I'd go one thing at a time to begin. I'd get an arduino mega and a gps
[19:06] <eroomde> connecting the two up is super easy and i or someone else here will happily walk you through that when you get them
[19:06] <vaulner> eroomde: and when I get it, what's next?
[19:06] <Hibby> eroomde: looks like this - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6715082/DSC01238.JPG - with one of my undergrad slaves... I mean assistants looking happy
[19:07] <eroomde> vaulner: good question - do you have any experience programming?
[19:07] <vaulner> not so far :(
[19:07] <Hibby> it's an m2 systems set up, entirely - az/el rotators, booms, antennae, the lot
[19:07] <eroomde> lol ok, phased long yagis should just about compete with our 6-els :)
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> It's all a bit basic.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:08] <eroomde> vaulner: that's not a problem at all
[19:08] <eroomde> so once you have the gps and arduino, we'll work to get you displaying the gps output onto your computer screen via the arduino
[19:09] <vaulner> ok, thank you :)
[19:09] <eroomde> then we'll work on the radiometrix bit so instead of sending the gps data to the computer, you send it to the radio
[19:09] <eroomde> and then that's basically hab complete!
[19:09] <eroomde> these things can be a bit daunting at the outset - the best thing to do is commit, buy enough to get started, make some tea and dive in. we'll help you
[19:09] <Hibby> tasty icom 910 for radio listening, with a handheld 3 el yagi and yaesu ft-817 for portable listening
[19:09] <eroomde> Hibby: nice
[19:10] <eroomde> we (I used to run cam uni spaceflight but graduated in june) have an old az-el donated by a local ham club that was broken but didn't take too much fixing, and a 9-el yagi, and the group has an 817 and i have an ic-7000
[19:10] <eroomde> which i'm a big fan of
[19:11] <Hibby> it's a lovely set up, uni have thrown money at it, as have clyde space, because they need a base station connected to GENSO for their UKUBE project and more
[19:11] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4082160869/
[19:12] <eroomde> i remember hearing about genso at the amsat colloqium a couple of years ago - is it all up and running now?
[19:12] <eroomde> Hibby: you have a nice space for a dish in the middle :)
[19:13] <Hibby> we have a 2.4 gig dish sitting
[19:13] <Hibby> but it's pish
[19:13] <Hibby> usual student project
[19:13] <eroomde> pish?
[19:13] <Hibby> it'll fail if the local windspeed > 40mph. And this is just about the highest point in city centre glasgow
[19:13] <Hibby> pish == crap in scottish ;)
[19:14] <eroomde> ah fair point
[19:14] <eroomde> chicken-wire dish then
[19:15] <vaulner> eroomde: i'm trying to find arduino mega on my local store but it is out of stock :( they have arduino mega 2560, would that work?
[19:15] <Hibby> it'll have to be
[19:15] <Hibby> essentially, it's just a metal sheet bent into shape, which, while beautiful, acts like a metal sail
[19:15] <Hibby> im more worried it'll cause the boom to fall over.
[19:15] <eroomde> vaulner: yep
[19:16] <eroomde> the difference is in the chip atmel microcontroller chip that they use, but they're compatible with each other so you'll have no problems
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[19:37] <LazyLeopard> Hibby: That's a fine antenna setup...
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[19:37] <LazyLeopard> (the Az/El yagi one...)
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[20:05] <Hibby> LazyLeopard: thank you :)
[20:28] <Hibby> what's the general thoughts on antennae for HA balloons?
[20:28] <jcoxon> Hibby, usually a 1/4 wave with 4 radial wires as a ground plane
[20:28] <eroomde> 1/4 wave poiting down
[20:28] <eroomde> 4 radials out to the horizon
[20:29] <Hibby> cool, was the thought
[20:29] <jcoxon> haha
[20:29] <eroomde> too slow
[20:29] <eroomde> damn
[20:29] <jcoxon> jpole has been tried too
[20:29] <Hibby> got plenty 21 gauge here
[20:29] Action: jcoxon has speedy typing
[20:29] <eroomde> and slim jim, and bazooka dipole
[20:29] <eroomde> and big wheel
[20:29] <fsphil> I used the bazooka, did the job nicely
[20:29] <eroomde> yeah I must learn to touch type
[20:29] <jcoxon> Hibby, something squishy
[20:30] <jcoxon> eroomde, hacker typing, not pansy touch typing
[20:30] <jcoxon> only use 2 fingers on each hand
[20:30] <eroomde> my RSI incident after thesis scared me off that
[20:30] <jcoxon> true true
[20:30] <jcoxon> i don't type for a living
[20:31] <eroomde> mmm i have bad dreams about having a sitting at computer job
[20:32] <LazyLeopard> hmmm... No idea how many fingers I use, but I sure don't touch-type...
[20:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, i might have to dash up to london tomorrow - need to get the gas repaired in my flat (as they have shut it off due to a dodgey pipe)
[20:32] <fsphil> same here LazyLeopard, freestyle typing :)
[20:32] <Hibby> I'll point my antennae down south if there are any launches in the future... we've got some good sensitivity on the antennae with 2 low noise preamp stages and plenty radio kit :)
[20:32] <eroomde> now i know I'm one of those people that's prone to RSI, I'll have to really try hard to fend it off for the rest of my life
[20:32] <jcoxon> Hibby, ooooo might have a good flight for you to track
[20:32] <jcoxon> long duration over from iceland
[20:33] <fsphil> good thinking
[20:33] <eroomde> Hibby: do you know if anyone uses liquid nitrogen to cool pre-amps?
[20:33] <eroomde> this i've wondered for a while
[20:33] <Hibby> not in my field, anyway. For higher power, possibly - I know of experimental power grids in NY state across the pond that use similar for supercooling conductors...
[20:34] <eroomde> might be fun to try in the name of silliness
[20:34] <Hibby> anyway, if you were amplifying RF that much you'd likely bring the noise floor up too high to be useful, no?
[20:35] <eroomde> thinking about receiving
[20:35] <eroomde> oh sorry i misunderstood
[20:35] <eroomde> sure yes but there's the thermal noise in the amps themselves
[20:36] <jerry507_mac> Which makes a big difference when the incoming signal is small
[20:36] <eroomde> i've no idea what the relative noise powers are. but with some serious notch filtering and very low noise pre-amps it might be an improvement
[20:37] <Hibby> whats the icelandic flight all about then?
[20:37] <jcoxon> Hibby, 24hr flight from iceland to scotland
[20:37] <Upu> launch in Iceland land in Scotland
[20:37] <jcoxon> using a latex pinhole floater balloon
[20:37] <Upu> in theory :)
[20:37] <fsphil> likely overkill that, a small preamp is more than enough :)
[20:38] <jcoxon> Hibby, just need to keep the balloon in the air for 15-20hrs
[20:38] <jcoxon> :-p
[20:38] <Hibby> interesting... I take it it's all still in the planning stages?
[20:38] <jcoxon> payload construction stages
[20:39] <jcoxon> though planning a test flight in the next few weekends to test the floating theory
[20:39] <jcoxon> Hibby, its more a culmination of a lot of the work done over the last few years
[20:39] <jcoxon> with dl-fldigi and the distributed listener system
[20:39] <Hibby> cool. What's the floating theory?
[20:40] <jcoxon> so you introduce a small vent in to the balloon, when the sunset the balloon seems to stop ascending and maintain altitude
[20:40] <jcoxon> no one has actually worked out why but its quite do able
[20:40] <Hibby> well, I'm needing interesting ways of testing out/ optomising the ground station after it's summer rebuild, so I'll stick around the channel
[20:40] <jcoxon> i want to test how good we are at predicting an altitude
[20:41] <jcoxon> so the plan was a floater flight over night from cambridge
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[20:42] <eroomde> Hibby: if you do stay, you have to contribute 'floater' jokes
[20:42] <eroomde> that's the only requirement
[20:42] <Hibby> Cool. What's the kind of prediction for the altitude?
[20:42] <jcoxon> indeed it is
[20:43] Action: Hibby is an electrical and mechanical engineer ;)
[20:43] <Hibby> eroomde: I can handle that
[20:43] <Hibby> back soon - mrs is talking at me ;)
[20:43] <jcoxon> Hibby, well we find that the balloon stops ascending at sunset
[20:43] <jcoxon> but sunset at altitude is ~1hr after on the ground
[20:43] <fsphil> is the vent required? has someone launched just before sunset without it?
[20:43] <jcoxon> so you just need to launch at hte right time so that you hit the altitude you want to float at
[20:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, it seems so - there is some degree of slowing but iirc its not as substantial
[20:44] <fsphil> interesting
[20:44] <jcoxon> i assume the vent allows for the stabilisation
[20:44] <fsphil> I wonder if it's the temperature difference, the balloon being slightly warmer than the outside air
[20:44] <jcoxon> could well be
[20:45] <fsphil> the warmer helium would expand and be vented out
[20:45] <Hibby> is there some sort of mathematical explanation though - thermodynamics is kinda my thing!
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[20:46] <jcoxon> Hibby, not anything substantial
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[20:46] <jcoxon> please feel free to work it out - i'm happy just using it :-p
[20:46] <eroomde> i think the helium leaks out of the vent and lift is reduced. Left to its own deices it would reach neutral bouyancy but at sunset the gas bubble cools, its volume reduces, and the lift reduces, so it more or less stops ascending in its tracks
[20:46] <Hibby> cool.
[20:46] <eroomde> 
[20:47] <jcoxon> Hibby, one flight it only dropped 500m in 7 hours
[20:47] <eroomde> but i don't know the actual thermodynamics - thermodynamics is definitely not my thing
[20:47] <eroomde> we really do need a flight measuring pressure difference between balloon at atmosphere
[20:47] <eroomde> and helium temp, outside temp, and balloon skin temp
[20:48] <eroomde> we could probably build a decent model then
[20:48] <jcoxon> eroomde, on that note i've got a rfbee set now
[20:48] <fsphil> little temperature sensor in the neck of the balloon should be easy
[20:48] <jcoxon> 868mhz transmitter + atmega168 built in
[20:48] <jcoxon> perfect for a little controller in the vent
[20:48] <eroomde> nice
[20:48] <eroomde> differential pressure?
[20:48] <jcoxon> would be easy really
[20:49] <jcoxon> build it all into a pvc pipe
[20:54] <Laurenceb> temperature drift could be supstantial
[20:54] <Laurenceb> would need to compensate
[20:57] <Laurenceb> i was looking at diff pressure for airspeed sensing - the honeywell 26pc01smt
[20:57] <Laurenceb> with an ltc2481, but its not easy to solder
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[21:07] <Hibby> and I'm guessing the vent is at the bottom of the balloon
[21:07] <fsphil> yea
[21:07] Action: Hibby spent a while trying to work out how a balloon with a hole in it could stay afloat... long day in the lab
[21:08] <jcoxon> interestingly if you put a hole in the balloon it doesn't deflate immediately
[21:08] Action: jcoxon knows this from experience of a balloon + thorny bushes
[21:08] <fsphil> ooch
[21:09] <fsphil> at least it wasn't a jcoxon + thorny bushes
[21:10] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:10] <fsphil> will the air in the balloon fall to the bottom, or does it stay diffused?
[21:11] <fsphil> with the helium
[21:11] <Hibby> how big is the vent you're using on the static-altitude ones? flowrates could make for interesting reading...
[21:12] <jcoxon> 1.5mm
[21:13] <Hibby> nice. I'm guessing the contraction of $gas with air sitting at the bottom has something to do with it. What a fascinating concept.
[21:14] <fsphil> yea, with the hole at the bottom it's probably going to vent the air first
[21:14] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo#flight_2
[21:14] <jcoxon> and at the bottom of the page is flight data for the last few flights
[21:15] <Hibby> wonderful
[21:15] <jcoxon> in the states bill brown has found that 600g balloons don't work
[21:15] <Hibby> telemetry sent down via rtty or otherwise?
[21:16] <jcoxon> yeah 434 10mW 50baud rtty
[21:16] <Hibby> sweet
[21:16] <jcoxon> hoping to have the payload finished by sunday
[21:16] <Hibby> this is exactly what the groups needing the ground station are trying to do.
[21:16] <jcoxon> have been ironing out code issues
[21:16] <Hibby> with a bit more data sent down
[21:17] <jcoxon> well 300baud works well as well
[21:17] <jcoxon> and we've also done SSTV
[21:18] <Hibby> cutdown reduces vent size?
[21:19] <Hibby> or drops ballast?
[21:20] <fsphil> normally used to cut the payload from the balloon
[21:20] <fsphil> if it's going out of range for example
[21:20] <Hibby> ah, cool
[21:20] <Randomskk> small pyrotechnic charge in the line from the balloon to payload
[21:20] <Randomskk> boom
[21:20] <fsphil> for the icelandic flight it will cut down when it detects it's over scotland
[21:21] <Hibby> sweet.
[21:22] Action: Hibby will have to write some algorithm to have the antennae scan the northern skies and listen
[21:22] <Randomskk> or just grab the latest received position data and point to it :P
[21:22] <fsphil> you could query the distributed listener system for the current position, and calculate the bearing
[21:22] <fsphil> aye, what Randomskk said :-)
[21:22] <eroomde> I suspect he'll be the most likely person to find it first when in range
[21:23] <Hibby> equally a good option...
[21:23] <eroomde> so we'll be relying on him for the latest
[21:24] <fsphil> how clear is your horizon Hibby ?
[21:25] <Hibby> where does that info become available?#
[21:25] <Hibby> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/view.php ?
[21:27] <fsphil> yep - though there might be a better way to query just the relevant bit?
[21:27] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-server
[21:27] <fsphil> ah, lastpos
[21:29] <Hibby> view south is nearly entirely clear, view north has a couple of taller tower blocks about 1/2mile away and higher hills about 10 mls away
[21:30] <fsphil> should be fine then, you'd probably hear the cambridge launches once they hit about 20km
[21:30] <Hibby> nice
[21:31] <fsphil> your actually in a good spot to track any launches I do :) I'm just a bit south west from you in n.ireland
[21:33] <Hibby> ideal. Will keep my ears open!
[21:34] <jcoxon> fsphil, perhaps we should add lastpos to dl-fldigi
[21:34] <jcoxon> if not new data received in say 5mins use the server info to update bearing and distance boxes
[21:35] <fsphil> good idea .. have it coloured yellow instead of green
[21:36] <fsphil> the page takes ages to return any data though
[21:36] <jcoxon> how does everyone distinguish telemetry strings that have gps lock and doesn't have gps lock
[21:36] <jcoxon> i used to swap all the dividing commas for slashes
[21:37] <fsphil> I return them as-is, but I also include the gps lock value
[21:37] <Randomskk> basically there is no standard
[21:37] <fsphil> gps fix value even
[21:37] <Randomskk> :D
[21:37] <jcoxon> but we don't distinguish on dl-fldigi/listening server
[21:40] <fsphil> shouldn't matter for dl-fldigi
[21:40] <fsphil> could be a problem for the listener yea - can it be made to read a gps fix value?
[21:40] <jcoxon> more that its a waste of server time forwarding all the data
[21:40] <fsphil> ignore anything < 1
[21:40] <Randomskk> do you mean satellites in view or fix status?
[21:40] <jcoxon> i was thinking we could add gps fix value to the xml
[21:41] <fsphil> Randomskk, the fix status
[21:41] <jcoxon> and have dl-fldigi read it and decide whether to forward it or not
[21:41] <jcoxon> if gps fix value isn't in hte xml it'll just forward it
[21:41] <fsphil> yea that's probably best
[21:43] <Laurenceb> anyone here ever used serial under linux?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/1251166 i seem to have screwed up setting it to blockng/non blocking :(
[21:45] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/1251175 even
[21:45] <Randomskk> out of interest what was wrong with the python script?
[21:51] <Laurenceb> resampling is too slow
[21:51] <Laurenceb> it hoggs the cpu
[21:51] <Laurenceb> its easier to interface with libsamplerate like this
[21:51] <Laurenceb> it kind of works but ive screwed up the serial port config
[21:52] <Laurenceb> its not switching between bloking and non blocking
[21:52] <Laurenceb> really fustrating trying to find example code for this :(
[21:54] <fsphil> off topic a bit -- is it possible to have a good swr but still not radiate all that much rf?
[21:54] <Randomskk> you do everything I did last time I tried serial in linux in c
[21:54] <Randomskk> not really sure what to suggest. it looks okay from my limited experience with this
[21:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: why?
[21:55] <fsphil> jonsowman, was listening to the 50mhz contest earlier, and tried replying to a few calls but nobody could hear me
[21:56] <fsphil> the antenna is for 2m and 70cm, but the swr seemed fine on 6m too
[21:56] <jonsowman> what value of swr is 'fine'?
[21:57] <fsphil> well don't have any values, but it was three bars on the ft-817nd's built in meter
[21:57] <jonsowman> SWR matters more on transmit than receive, as it were, as you can make up for a bad swr on receive by having a very sensitive receiver
[21:57] <Laurenceb> anther idea, the only reason i need to swich is to flush the input buffer
[21:58] <Laurenceb> so, can i open as blocking and use fflush on an input buffer?
[21:59] <Laurenceb> - interesting, i can detune the cc by putting my fingers near it - about +-5hz
[22:00] <jcoxon> any objections to me clearing the spacenear.us map?
[22:01] <fsphil> jonsowman, so theoretically I could hear them fine but still not transmit much at all
[22:01] <jonsowman> yes that may be the case, especially for a non-resonant ant
[22:01] <jcoxon> crap juxta plotted 18625 points
[22:01] <jcoxon> no wonder its slow
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[22:01] <jonsowman> jcoxon: clear it
[22:01] <fsphil> lol, 300 baud ftw
[22:01] <jcoxon> 18265*
[22:02] <Laurenceb> if the ant is dissapating the energy through losses it may not be radiating well
[22:02] <Laurenceb> but youd still have god swr
[22:03] <fsphil> so I really was just heating up the coax or the antenna?
[22:03] <Laurenceb> maybe
[22:03] <jonsowman> a little
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[22:23] <juxta> heya jcoxon
[22:23] <juxta> sorry about that :D
[22:23] <jcoxon> no worries
[22:23] <jcoxon> though may need to think of some sort of cap
[22:23] <jcoxon> as the current system does struggle
[22:23] <juxta> yeah
[22:24] <juxta> well, there are lots of positions that can be discarded, or not sent on to clients
[22:24] <fsphil> can the points be averaged out, or smoothed?
[22:24] <Randomskk> you could group by some field or function
[22:24] <jcoxon> fsphil, would have to ask natrium
[22:24] <juxta> it's just a matter of thinking up a way to do it
[22:24] <Randomskk> habitat will be able to return every nth point
[22:24] <Randomskk> but mysql cannot do that trivially
[22:25] <juxta> at 300b with 5 listeners, we could be feeding in 20 points between every client refresh
[22:25] <juxta> possibly more
[22:25] <jcoxon> interestingly i've gone now to 50baud every 30 seconds
[22:25] <juxta> the clients really need only one of those points
[22:25] <jcoxon> and thats how it used to do it
[22:26] <jcoxon> but i think now that it displays the number of listeners for each string its increased in traffic
[22:27] <juxta> I suspect that's computed in JS, just based on the positions sent out & who reported them
[22:27] <juxta> but I haven't look at it
[22:27] <jcoxon> that said with habitat moving forward it probs wouldn't be a good idea to dig into the current setup
[22:27] <jcoxon> as it does 'just work'
[22:28] <juxta> true that
[22:35] <Laurenceb> http://vret.ces.clemson.edu/vrlab/code/serial/serial.c can anyone compile that?
[22:37] <Laurenceb> i get error: TCFLSH undeclared (first use in this function
[22:42] <fsphil> this was the last code I used for serial, 9600 8N1: http://pastebin.com/mdSYr1CZ
[22:43] <fsphil> dunno how right it is though
[22:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, did you ever receive that DDS-60 kit?
[22:45] <fsphil> not yet jcoxon - I'd actually forgot about that, will give them a poke
[22:46] <Laurenceb> ah posix
[22:46] Action: jcoxon waits for a gps lock
[22:47] <Laurenceb> yeah ill try the posix functions
[22:48] <jcoxon> http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[22:48] <fsphil> hehe, I still think that's neat
[22:49] <jcoxon> it means that i can monitor it from across my room
[22:49] <fsphil> you should nl2br() the output
[22:49] <Laurenceb> ah t actually compiles
[22:50] <Laurenceb> oh thats sweet
[22:51] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: very cool
[22:52] <jcoxon> fsphil, done
[22:52] <Laurenceb> think ill make a nice enclosure for the sdr tomorrow, im completely sick of trying to make this code work
[22:52] <jcoxon> refresh
[22:52] <fsphil> nice, didn't need to
[22:52] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[22:52] <jcoxon> it autorefreshes
[22:55] <fsphil> your rtty shift is perfect
[22:55] <jcoxon> i tuned it on the ntx2
[22:55] <jcoxon> whether that'll hold up to the chilliness of near space is a different matter
[22:56] <jcoxon> however once i've implemented the PID crystal oven code then should be stable as well
[22:56] <fsphil> now that I'm looking forward too -- if the frequency can be made stable, then mfsk becomes a possibility
[22:57] <Laurenceb> it works ok as it is
[22:57] <jcoxon> might get you guys to look over my code then
[22:57] Action: Laurenceb has flown mfsk64
[22:57] <jcoxon> once i write some
[22:57] <jcoxon> okay night all
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[22:57] <fsphil> is fldigi able to track the frequency?
[22:58] <Laurenceb> not brilliantly
[22:58] <Laurenceb> but that was an old version
[22:58] <Laurenceb> - back in 2008
[22:58] <fsphil> interesting
[22:58] <fsphil> I might give it a go
[22:58] <fsphil> I'd like to hack the ssdv stuff into it, I suspect it would be a bit faster than rtty
[22:59] <Laurenceb> odd, cant open in anything other than non blocking
[22:59] <Laurenceb> well i can, it just wont block
[23:00] <Laurenceb> mfsk isnt hugely fast
[23:00] <Laurenceb> i used it as i wanted to use a latpop with an unstable sound card clock
[23:01] <Laurenceb> fast rtty wasnt performing well
[23:01] <fsphil> take out O_NDELAY from your open() call
[23:01] <Laurenceb> i have
[23:02] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/1251357
[23:04] <Laurenceb> dont understand what the hells happening
[23:04] <Laurenceb> should probably grow a neckbeard
[23:05] <Laurenceb> maybe i screwed up setting the timeout - line 40
[23:05] <fsphil> change your c_cc[VMIN] to 1
[23:05] <Laurenceb> yeah :P
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[23:06] <fsphil> hehe, to fast for me
[23:06] <fsphil> too
[23:07] <Laurenceb> omg
[23:07] <Laurenceb> it only freaking works
[23:07] <Laurenceb> he impossible has happened
[23:07] <fsphil> you've mastered linux serial, congrats ;)
[23:08] <Laurenceb> right im off to get some sleep, cya
[23:08] <Laurenceb> thanks for the help
[23:08] <fsphil> night
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 27 2010