highaltitude.log.20101024

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[00:22] <juxta_> ping Darkside
[00:23] <juxta_> natrium42: thanks for you help yesterday :)
[00:25] <natrium42> juxta_, sure thing
[00:25] <natrium42> awesome launch :)
[00:26] <natrium42> seeing the payload being brought to the car was cool too :P
[00:27] <juxta_> heh, amazingly Adrian had 3G coverage at his car out there, but then again he does have an enourmous antenna for it mounted on the roof
[00:27] <natrium42> why did "the green car" take such a long route?
[00:28] <natrium42> sideroads closed?
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[00:29] <juxta_> nah, he has the most capable 4WD, so he took a route through the park
[00:29] <juxta_> incase the payload landed inside
[00:29] <juxta_> the roads are very bad, so he couldnt cut straight through to us when it landed
[00:30] <natrium42> ah
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> So the recovery went well?
[00:30] <juxta_> they got bogged, when they arrived at the launch site they were filthy :)
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> good pics?
[00:30] <juxta_> yup, went great :)
[00:31] <juxta_> no pics aboard this one SpeedEvil, we flew 2 voice repeaters and an APRS payhload
[00:31] <juxta_> + telemetry
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> I remember.
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:31] <natrium42> did it miss trees?
[00:32] <juxta_> no, it had very good aim for trees ;p
[00:32] <natrium42> d'oh
[00:32] <natrium42> pix plz
[00:32] <juxta_> it landed right in the scrub, we had to go in about 1km to get it
[00:32] <juxta_> not a single bit of it was on the ground - it was all up in the canopy
[00:32] <natrium42> juxta_, what do you think about the 5 degree horizon circle?
[00:32] <juxta_> hehe, will get hold of the pics from everybody soon
[00:33] <natrium42> coolz
[00:33] <juxta_> the circle seemed good from what I saw natrium42, you were chatting to my navigator though, as I was driving
[00:33] <natrium42> hehe
[00:34] <juxta_> it was a tricky launch
[00:34] <juxta_> the balloon train was over 100m to keep separation between RF payloads, and it was windy at ground level
[00:35] <juxta_> the bottom payload ended up dragging along the ground despite best efforts, and whacked into a fence post too
[00:35] <juxta_> then it wasnt work (it was our team repeater)
[00:35] <juxta_> wasnt working*
[00:36] <juxta_> it came back on a few minutes later though, but we eventually flattened the little lipo on it
[00:37] <natrium42> it got very high for the number of payloads you had
[00:38] <juxta_> yeah
[00:38] <juxta_> and the balloon size too
[00:38] <juxta_> 1kg balloon again
[00:38] <juxta_> 1400g of payloads all up
[00:40] <juxta_> not all good news though, i lost an antenna early in the piece (wasnt screwed on correctly I guess), then I ended up tearing an engine mount on those 'roads'
[00:42] <natrium42> :S
[00:42] <Gnea> oy
[00:42] <natrium42> vey
[00:43] <Gnea> juxta_: just got done reading scrollback, was following again earlier after about the first hour
[00:44] <juxta_> hey Gnea :)
[00:44] <Gnea> got a little worried when the telemetry kept reporting it was so many meters above the ground and not moving anywhere and there weren't any trees :)
[00:44] <juxta_> i'll have to have a look at the logs too whilst it was up
[00:45] <Gnea> but glad to hear that it didn't land too far out of the way
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[00:57] <juxta_> yeah most of the roads were OK Gnea
[00:57] <juxta_> it was only the last one that was really bad
[01:00] <juxta_> ok, time go get up
[01:00] <juxta_> to8
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[01:42] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: NSTAR 10-C sunday 0830 CDT from Valley NE #ARHAB www.nstar.org [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/28552754173]
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[05:18] <natrium42> ooh, nice, somebody hacked the $25 usb gprs modem to transmit sms via UART
[05:18] <natrium42> http://finch.am/projects/arduinogsm/
[05:19] <natrium42> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12057
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[08:41] <m1x10> Good morning Sunday!
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[09:26] <m1x10> Time for CISCO CCNA course !
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[10:40] <fsphil> m1x10, red grass: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hadie/images/2010-10-24--10-34-45-hadie-01.jpeg
[10:43] <juxta|console> heya fsphil
[10:43] <fsphil> morning/evening juxta|console !
[10:45] <juxta|console> have a nice big recording of the repeater traffic sitting at home on my desktop :)
[10:45] <Darkside> juxta|console: hey
[10:45] <fsphil> sweet! how'd the flight go? the altitude chart shows a fairly steep drop :)
[10:45] <juxta|console> hey Darkside
[10:46] <Darkside> i want to put clones of the nut board on some gliders :D
[10:46] <Darkside> and track them
[10:46] <Darkside> i'd make them transmit less data, at random intercals
[10:46] <Darkside> so there'll be some collisions, but data will get through
[10:46] <m1x10> fsphil: what do u mean by that?
[10:46] <juxta|console> on real gliders you mean?
[10:47] <Darkside> yes juxta|console
[10:47] <fsphil> m1x10, your camera has better colour :)
[10:47] <Darkside> so i can track some cross country gliders
[10:47] <m1x10> haha
[10:47] <juxta|console> awesome
[10:47] <fsphil> m1x10, http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hadie/live.php
[10:47] <Darkside> juxta|console: might need to up the power tho
[10:47] <fsphil> online distributed receiver
[10:47] <juxta|console> fsphil: flight was around 3.5 hours I think
[10:47] <m1x10> fsphil my cam was showing the grass in white !
[10:48] <Darkside> i was going to do a test using my existing board, but setting the carrier to 1KHz and feeding the audio into my 5W UHF modue
[10:48] <fsphil> eep .. intentionally a long flight juxta|console?
[10:48] <m1x10> oh fsphil thats cool
[10:48] <juxta|console> Darkside: why not use APRS? coverage would be much better
[10:48] <Darkside> i dont have a license
[10:48] <Darkside> and i cant be in all the gliders all at once
[10:48] <juxta|console> fsphil: yeah, we wanted to give people a long time to work the repeater
[10:49] <Darkside> licensing for 10 gliders would be a bit dubious
[10:49] <m1x10> fsphil why some images are bigger than VGA res?
[10:49] <juxta|console> not really, get a club call or something
[10:49] <juxta|console> so long as you dont use it to net a profit it's all good
[10:49] <fsphil> m1x10, the biggest ones are 640x480 - I reduced it to 320x240 to speed it up a bit
[10:49] <Darkside> juxta|console: that requires effort on the part of the club :P
[10:49] <Darkside> fucking wifi latency
[10:49] <Darkside> grrrrr
[10:50] <fsphil> if you refresh the page you should see the first image being updated -- trying to figure out how to do that in javascript now
[10:50] <m1x10> ah
[10:50] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/119985
[10:50] <m1x10> white tree ? :p
[10:50] <fsphil> You live in Gondor? :)
[10:50] <m1x10> though it was a cloudy day
[10:50] <juxta|console> well, you can do it the way we do it with LIPD transmitters, but if you up the power they're no longer legal LIPD's
[10:51] <m1x10> lol
[10:51] <Darkside> LIPD?
[10:51] <juxta|console> Low interference Potential Device
[10:51] <m1x10> fsphil: next test is to use this cam during movement
[10:51] <Darkside> lol
[10:52] <Darkside> juxta|console: how much are the NTX2s?
[10:52] <juxta|console> about 30 bucks I think
[10:52] <Darkside> and where do you get them
[10:52] <juxta|console> RFMA.com.au
[10:52] <fsphil> m1x10, yea - one good thing about the c328 cameras is they work fine even if they're spinning - the image is still fine
[10:53] <m1x10> thats cool then.
[10:54] <m1x10> i must take the breadboard circuit and put it in front of my wheel in the car
[10:54] <m1x10> and drive some hour
[10:54] <fsphil> try moving it left and right while taking an image of something perfectly vertical -- see if the image comes out all wobbly
[10:54] <m1x10> Also, I think I found some way in software to improve the image colour
[10:55] <m1x10> its complex I dont understand it though
[10:55] <m1x10> its done for this cam
[10:56] <juxta|console> those pics look like the cams could do with IR sensors
[10:56] <juxta|console> erm, IR filters rather
[10:57] <m1x10> lol
[10:58] <m1x10> fsphil do u know how many megapixels that cams have?
[10:58] <m1x10> 0.3?
[10:58] <Darkside> juxta|console: if i can get 600 baud RTTY working, we could fly on eof those
[10:59] <juxta|console> m1x10: if they're 640x480, yes
[10:59] <juxta|console> Darkside: http://aprs.fi/?call=VK5ZSN-11&mt=roadmap&z=9&timerange=172800
[11:00] <m1x10> juxta they are VGA/QVGA/160*120
[11:00] <Darkside> eew
[11:00] <Darkside> oh wait
[11:00] <Darkside> VGA is ok
[11:01] <Darkside> also juxta|console, horus 8 is the number one google result for 'HF telemetry' at the moment
[11:01] <juxta|console> whut
[11:02] <Darkside> yup :P
[11:02] <juxta|console> wow
[11:02] <juxta|console> how did that happen?
[11:02] <juxta|console> haha
[11:02] <Darkside> nfi
[11:03] <fsphil> QVGA is fine for little teaser images ;-)
[11:03] <juxta|console> go get your license Darkside & you can get a club/project call at the same time as I do ;p
[11:03] <fsphil> I might try an IR filter
[11:03] <Darkside> lol
[11:03] <juxta|console> we're thinking of getting vk5hab
[11:03] <Darkside> hahaha
[11:03] <fsphil> ooh cool
[11:03] <Darkside> yes
[11:03] <Darkside> i can get vk5hfb :P
[11:03] <Darkside> hf balloons :D
[11:04] <fsphil> vk5pop
[11:04] <Darkside> hahaha
[11:04] <fsphil> well, they do at some point anyway
[11:04] <juxta|console> fsphil: your pics do look pretty much like near IR shots
[11:04] <fsphil> usually
[11:04] <juxta|console> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_example_IR.jpg
[11:05] <fsphil> haha that's cool
[11:05] <fsphil> I must point a remote control at it, see if it shows up
[11:05] <juxta|console> it probably will - even cameras with IR filters will still see remote controls
[11:05] <fsphil> last time I flew this camera the ground was a lot more red than it should be -- looked more Mars than Earth
[11:06] <fsphil> yea
[11:06] <fsphil> also the IR filter might get condensation
[11:07] <juxta|console> true that
[11:08] <juxta|console> usually IR filters on cheap cams are right on the sensor
[11:09] <fsphil> that's right, I've seen that on an old board camera I dismantled
[11:09] <fsphil> actually I might be able to use that very one in this
[11:11] <m1x10> fsphil you don't need IR sensors: http://www.linksprite.com/product/showproduct.php?id=56&lang=en
[11:12] <fsphil> it's actually to remove the IR
[11:12] <juxta|console> that's a camera that has IR led's m1x10, it uses them to light things up when it's dark
[11:12] <fsphil> caught my eye: Serial Interface: RS232 ( RS485/TTL/SPI optional, please ask)
[11:12] <fsphil> it has SPI, cool
[11:12] <juxta|console> what you want to do is use an IR filter to remove the IR to increase colour accuracy
[11:13] <m1x10> aaa
[11:13] <m1x10> lol
[11:13] <m1x10> sorry
[11:13] <m1x10> i though you needed IR
[11:13] <m1x10> not filter it
[11:13] <fsphil> IR is great for night time, because most mammals and birds can't see it
[11:13] <m1x10> thought*
[11:13] <m1x10> mamals
[11:13] <m1x10> lol
[11:13] <m1x10> word
[11:13] <fsphil> but camera sensors can see it, so it needs to be removed
[11:14] <fsphil> we apes have fairly lousy eyes ;)
[11:14] <m1x10> yeah
[11:14] <juxta|console> at least they're more useful than our noses
[11:14] <m1x10> god gave brain but not eagle eyes
[11:15] <m1x10> spi will make image transfer a bit of joke
[11:16] <fsphil> should be good and fast
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[11:16] <fsphil> if the camera can keep up anyway
[11:16] <fsphil> fast enough can you could do motion jpeg video
[11:16] <fsphil> can <> you
[11:17] <fsphil> -can
[11:17] <m1x10> yeah
[11:17] <Darkside> juxta|console: what temp did horus 8 get down to externally?
[11:17] <Darkside> my payload's temp readings were off
[11:18] <juxta|console> I haven't got the data onhand
[11:18] <Darkside> -40?
[11:18] <juxta|console> but at around -40 I reckon
[11:18] <juxta|console> yeah
[11:18] <Darkside> mine read -30
[11:18] <Darkside> but it had that fucking linear regulator inside
[11:18] <m1x10> haha
[11:19] <m1x10> good heating system
[11:19] <Darkside> i got the switchmode regulators in the mail on monday
[11:19] <Darkside> which sucked
[11:19] <m1x10> Darkside use LDOs
[11:19] <Darkside> LDOs?
[11:19] <m1x10> so to provide less input voltage
[11:19] <m1x10> Low Dropout
[11:19] <Darkside> oh, i used one for 3.3v
[11:19] <Darkside> i ran the 3.3v LDO off the output of the 5V regulator
[11:20] <m1x10> arduino got a simple reg that needs more than 8v of input to provide a stable 5v output
[11:20] <juxta|console> the duplex repeater we flew this weekend was cracking at pretty much 100% duty cycle, even with the cooling I achieved by sticking the copper strips out in the cold, it melted some hot melt glue
[11:20] <m1x10> when input voltage drops below 7v output gets laid
[11:20] <juxta|console> m1x10: Darkside's primary power supply was 12v - he coudltn do much about that
[11:21] <m1x10> 12v?!?!
[11:21] <m1x10> that is much
[11:21] <Darkside> the amp i was using needed it
[11:21] <m1x10> amp?
[11:21] <Darkside> my new amp *really* needs 12V
[11:21] <Darkside> power amplifier
[11:21] <m1x10> aa
[11:21] <Darkside> for the RF
[11:21] <Darkside> my HF signal generator outputs <1mW >_>
[11:21] <m1x10> oh
[11:21] <m1x10> tiny
[11:21] <Darkside> also building a high efficiency amp that outputs 40mW is really fucking hard
[11:22] <m1x10> my radio 300mw
[11:22] <juxta|console> m1x10: Darkside was outputting telemetry on 7MHz
[11:22] <m1x10> :p
[11:22] <Darkside> like, its damn near impossible
[11:22] <Darkside> i was getting <10% efficiency on that amplifier...
[11:22] <m1x10> why 7mhz?
[11:22] <Darkside> because its in an amateur radio band
[11:22] <m1x10> country?
[11:22] <Darkside> australia
[11:22] <fsphil> theoretically it's much better range
[11:22] <m1x10> why not use aprs?
[11:22] <m1x10> 144.8mhz?
[11:22] <Darkside> m1x10: because my uni project was HF
[11:22] <juxta|console> it was an experiment m1x10
[11:22] <m1x10> aa
[11:22] <m1x10> ok
[11:23] <m1x10> you got pictures from that flight?
[11:23] <Darkside> i just thought it woudl be a fun test to fly it on a balloo
[11:23] <Darkside> much more interesting than just letting it broadcasrt
[11:23] <juxta|console> Darkside: Grant came to my place and interviewed me today
[11:23] <fsphil> when the sun gets a bit more active, you should try 28mhz -- from what I've heard I might be able to track from here :p
[11:23] <Darkside> m1x10: do an 'i feel lucky' for 'HF telemetry'
[11:23] <Darkside> lol fsphil
[11:23] <Darkside> thats doable :P
[11:24] <Darkside> next time i have a HF payload it should be putting out a few watts
[11:24] <m1x10> im trying to build a board with an LDO so I can use just 4 AAs in series and provide ~6v to the LDO
[11:24] <Darkside> juxta|console: haha
[11:24] <fsphil> heck that might even manage the distance
[11:24] <Darkside> yeah, he wanted to interview me
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> 4AA vary down to 0.9*4 = 3.6V
[11:24] <Darkside> but i dunno when that'll happen
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> For alkaline
[11:24] <m1x10> lithiums
[11:25] <m1x10> 1.5v
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> Dunno when the effectuve end-voltage for lithiums is
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> what is the voltage when there is 5% of charge left.
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> It's not 1.5V
[11:25] <Darkside> 1.8v
[11:25] <Darkside> oh
[11:25] <Darkside> less :P
[11:26] <Darkside> oh yeah
[11:26] <juxta|console> it's a very flat curve for lithium's SpeedEvil
[11:26] <Darkside> http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php?reg=/DARKSIDE/
[11:26] <Darkside> look at the battery voltage on my payload
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah. You need to use that voltage when deesigning, otherwise the unexpected occurs
[11:26] <Darkside> look further down the page, for the horus 8 telemetry
[11:26] <Darkside> the last field is the battery voltage
[11:26] <Darkside> it dropped to 10.somethign volts at one point
[11:26] <m1x10> juxta|console can u point me to a link that shows the graph?
[11:26] <Darkside> aww wut, the data's been cleared
[11:27] <m1x10> power left / output voltage
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: Go to energisers website.
[11:27] <m1x10> for lithiums
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: find the 'OEM' bit.
[11:27] <Darkside> anyway, it got to 10.6 volts at teh end
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> thenthey havre a nice datasheet for the lithium cells
[11:27] <m1x10> L91
[11:27] <m1x10> yea wait
[11:27] <Darkside> which is 1.32V/cell
[11:27] <juxta|console> m1x10: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
[11:30] <m1x10> hmm
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> 1.2V looks sane probably from that
[11:31] <m1x10> 3-4hrs providing 500mA voltage: 1.4
[11:31] <Darkside> dont forget temperature
[11:31] <m1x10> yes
[11:31] <Darkside> the datasheet doesn't show that
[11:31] <m1x10> that will decrease voltage ?
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> It does
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> It's a surprisingly good datasheet
[11:31] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: not at -20
[11:31] <Darkside> it only shows 0 degrees i think
[11:31] <Darkside> i think it shows capacity change tho
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> Look at fig 2
[11:32] <Darkside> ok this is different to what i had
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> At 250mA and -20C you lose about 10% of capacity when discharging to 0.9v
[11:33] <Darkside> heh , i was doing about 25mA per cell on my payload :P
[11:33] <m1x10> the LDO i choose has a dropout of .5v
[11:33] <m1x10> it takes 6v and outputs 5
[11:33] <m1x10> i should make some tests in the frigde
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> If you want 5V, you probably want at least 5 clls.
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> cells
[11:33] <m1x10> oh
[11:33] <m1x10> dont say that
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:34] <juxta|console> i've used 4AA's & a 5V LDO in payloads before
[11:34] <m1x10> you destroy all my plans
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> With .5V dropout voltage, you're moving up onto the corner of the discharge curve
[11:34] <juxta|console> it worked fine, but I wasn't drawing anywhere near 500mA
[11:35] <Darkside> juxta|console: how many mA does your whole board draw?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Fig 6 says that at 250mA you lose about 1/4 of capacity If you terminate at 1.375V - at 25C
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> that may be a fair bit worse at 500mA when cold
[11:37] <juxta|console> i've not measured Darkside the current one Darkside, but less than 50mA I think
[11:37] <Darkside> nice
[11:37] <Darkside> i thought the gps would draw that much by iself
[11:37] <juxta|console> nah, once it has lock it's ok
[11:38] <juxta|console> down to 30ish
[11:38] <Darkside> nice
[11:39] <juxta|console> i didnt build the board with power consumption in mind - there's no way to turn off TX or GPS in software
[11:39] <Darkside> hehe
[11:39] <Darkside> thats the next thing i need to d on my board
[11:39] <Darkside> with the Class E amp its easy to do - i just put the signal generator into sleep mode
[11:40] <Darkside> no signal means the gate of the FET is low, and so no current draw
[11:40] <Darkside> well, very low current draw
[11:40] <juxta|console> the next one I have a few ideas for - PID or thermisistor control of heating on the transmitter to control freq shift, ability to switch the GPS on & off, and perhaps a small (50-100mW) amp for beacon mode once it's on the ground
[11:40] <Darkside> hehe
[11:41] <Darkside> why would you tuen the gps off?
[11:41] <Darkside> for once its landed?
[11:41] <juxta|console> once it's landed
[11:41] <Darkside> what if it lands on a sheep?
[11:41] <Darkside> or a cow
[11:41] <juxta|console> hah
[11:41] <Darkside> or a camel
[11:41] <juxta|console> well perhaps we'll wake it up every few minutes
[11:41] <Darkside> :P
[11:42] <juxta|console> I'll try get the landing pics from this last launch soon
[11:42] <juxta|console> was a bit of a hike to get it out of the scrub
[11:42] <Darkside> yes, i want pics :P
[11:42] <fsphil> how far from the road?
[11:42] <Darkside> we could see ZMs car on the tracker, but it looked like you had gone out of range
[11:42] <Darkside> were you with ZM when he was parked on the side of the road?
[11:42] <juxta|console> yeah I lost net a little before he did
[11:42] <juxta|console> yeah
[11:42] <juxta|console> I got there first
[11:43] <Darkside> heh
[11:43] <juxta|console> they rocked up maybe 5 mins later
[11:43] <Darkside> i was waiting to see the balloon start moving, but it looks like you turned it off when you got to it
[11:43] <juxta|console> nah, we didnt
[11:43] <juxta|console> we just stayed with it for ages
[11:43] <Darkside> plus i had to go back to work :P
[11:43] <juxta|console> we didnt move it for almost an hour after it landed I reckon
[11:43] <Darkside> heh
[11:43] <Darkside> why?
[11:44] <juxta|console> waiting for the othewrs
[11:44] <Darkside> heh
[11:44] <m1x10> Chrome 8 fails to open a pdf inside it
[11:44] <fsphil> could you still receive the HF signal after it landed?
[11:44] <Darkside> there was no HF on this one fsphil
[11:44] <Darkside> UHF yes tho
[11:44] <fsphil> ah
[11:44] <Darkside> since ZMs car was picking it up
[11:45] <Darkside> ZM had reception where he was parked and was transmitting coords back
[11:45] <juxta|console> yeah we could hear it too
[11:45] <Darkside> was it on the ground? or in a tree
[11:46] <juxta|console> in trees
[11:46] <m1x10> but juxta why would you need to power the gps when its on the ground?
[11:46] <m1x10> saving power wont help anything down there
[11:47] <juxta|console> it might if we lost it and it took some days to find it
[11:47] <m1x10> but you will have the last position
[11:47] <m1x10> and payload is going to stay there
[11:47] <Darkside> heh, this maxon module is 253 grams
[11:48] <Darkside> LOL it draws 1.1A when transmitting
[11:48] <Darkside> at least it draws crap wll when not transmitting
[11:48] <Darkside> i might see about hacking this onto my project :P
[11:48] <juxta|console> you might not always get the last position m1x10
[11:49] <Darkside> just need to add some PTT stuff :P
[11:49] <Darkside> juxta|console: 5W UHF telemetry :P
[11:49] <Darkside> just means blanking out a UHF CB channel for a few hours >_>
[11:49] <Darkside> they won't mind >_> its still within fair use :P
[11:49] <Darkside> completely within ACMA regulations
[11:50] <juxta|console> Darkside: the Cb repeater thing would be a challenge over a long range - intermod/desense was an issue for us even with 2m and 70cm
[11:50] <Darkside> nah, not a repeater
[11:50] <Darkside> just really high powered telemetry :P
[11:50] <Darkside> 200 times more powerful than what you currently do
[11:51] <Darkside> with about 200g more weight + batteries :P
[11:51] <juxta|console> the aprs beacon we flew can do 10W
[11:51] <Darkside> oh nice
[11:55] <juxta|console> only at low duty cycle though
[11:55] <Darkside> how long is an APRS data burst?
[11:56] <juxta|console> less than a second
[11:56] <Darkside> cool, what data rate?
[11:56] <juxta|console> 1200b I think
[11:56] <Darkside> psk? fsk?
[11:56] <juxta|console> ASK I think
[11:56] <Darkside> >_>
[11:57] <juxta|console> AFSK
[11:57] <Darkside> ahh
[11:57] <Darkside> FSK over FM
[11:57] <Darkside> haha
[11:57] <Darkside> you realise if you did that on your payload, it woudl make it a shitload easier for people to receive the telemetry :P
[11:58] <juxta|console> yeah
[11:58] <Darkside> not that i care anymore, i have a receiver coming in the post on monday :P
[11:58] <juxta|console> but we like narrow bandwidth
[11:58] <Darkside> haha
[11:59] <juxta|console> plus, the people who have SSB gear on UHF are DX'ers anyway
[11:59] <Darkside> mm
[11:59] <juxta|console> which we like, cause they tend to know what they're doing ;p
[11:59] <Darkside> can't wait to get this scanner :P
[11:59] <Darkside> means i have a wideband, all-mode receiver finally
[11:59] <juxta|console> we had a ham pop up on the repeater as the balloon was coming down
[11:59] <Darkside> it does 250KHz to 1.3GHz
[12:00] <juxta|console> it was very low - maybe down to 2-3km alt, so he must have been nearish
[12:00] <juxta|console> and he was just putting calls out to make contacts etc
[12:00] <fsphil> is there anything interesting up in the ghz frequencies?
[12:00] <Darkside> aparently there was some guy who just kept on calling, even when asked to stop
[12:00] <juxta|console> i started telling him off, but then had to stop to avoid crashing the car
[12:01] <Darkside> fsphil: maybe video from a balloon :P
[12:01] <juxta|console> yeah there was darkside
[12:01] <fsphil> video would be very sweet
[12:01] <Darkside> juxta|console: bug grant to give you some ATV equipment
[12:01] <Darkside> so you can do 23cm video
[12:02] <juxta|console> it'll happen
[12:02] <juxta|console> patience
[12:02] <juxta|console> :)
[12:02] <Darkside> also we'll need a tracking platform :P
[12:02] <juxta|console> I already have lots of launches in the pipeline, hehe
[12:02] <fsphil> I've a huge big 2.4ghz antenna
[12:02] <Darkside> i might be able to snaffle a tripod platform from uni
[12:02] <fsphil> doubt it owuld be enough though
[12:02] <juxta|console> I need to order more balloons
[12:02] <Darkside> juxta|console: we have a 900MHz dish, mounted on servos at uni
[12:03] <juxta|console> those Chinese balloons are awesome
[12:03] <Darkside> might be able to make the dish work at 23cm :P
[12:03] <Darkside> then just have that outside, tracking the balloon :P
[12:03] <juxta|console> oh nice, that's not the one that was used for tracking a glider a few years ago is it Darkside/
[12:03] <Darkside> dunno, maybe
[12:03] <juxta|console> as in a remote control glider
[12:03] <Darkside> no
[12:03] <Darkside> nah, thats another project
[12:03] <juxta|console> alright
[12:03] <Darkside> i met that guy today :P
[12:03] <juxta|console> yeah
[12:03] <juxta|console> Brendan?
[12:03] <Darkside> dunno his name
[12:04] <Darkside> he was out at the gawler
[12:04] <Darkside> gawler airfield
[12:04] <juxta|console> the guy who built the tracking antenna is a friend of mine
[12:04] <Darkside> hehe
[12:04] <Darkside> is he a glider pilot?
[12:04] <juxta|console> but he's in the ACT now, so i doubt it was him
[12:04] <juxta|console> nah
[12:04] <Darkside> he knew a lot about project horus :P
[12:04] <Darkside> ahh ok
[12:04] <juxta|console> oh really?
[12:04] <Darkside> but anyway, this one was used for 900MHz radar experiments
[12:04] <Darkside> i can probably borrow it for a little while
[12:05] <juxta|console> somone at the airfield knew a lot about the project? :S
[12:05] <Darkside> i had an interview today for a gliding scholarship
[12:05] <Darkside> they thought it was cool
[12:05] <juxta|console> oh yeah, i forgot about that - how'd it go?
[12:05] <Darkside> yeah, went well
[12:05] <juxta|console> when do you find out?
[12:05] <Darkside> was talking to them about HF telemetry using glider wings
[12:05] <Darkside> dunno
[12:06] <Darkside> one of the guys there used to have a HF dipole in his glider
[12:06] <juxta|console> heh
[12:06] <m1x10> How can I check that the mcu's uart is connected to another uart device?
[12:06] <m1x10> by means of registers in software
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> you can't
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> you check the level is right.
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> But other than that, not.
[12:09] <m1x10> what level?
[12:10] <m1x10> voltage?
[12:22] <Darkside> /quit
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[12:27] <Darkside> ugh
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: I think that rs232 isactive 'marl' - high leverl
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> mark
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[13:59] <Laurenceb> Darkside: me?
[13:59] <Darkside> no
[13:59] <Laurenceb> i actually had 2 dipoles, one for 35MHz, one 434
[13:59] <Darkside> 35MHz?
[13:59] <Laurenceb> tho the 35 wasnt long enough to be a proper dipole
[13:59] <Laurenceb> for RC
[13:59] <Darkside> oh
[13:59] <Darkside> lol
[13:59] Action: Laurenceb got retuning working
[14:00] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/IgHaz.png
[14:01] <Laurenceb> justr the weird frequency inversion and mirroring bug to fix now
[14:01] <Darkside> what are you using for the graphing?
[14:01] <Laurenceb> its something to do with timing glitches for when i sample the registers
[14:01] <Laurenceb> gnuplot
[14:01] <Darkside> heh
[14:02] <Laurenceb> was a massive pain to make it work - you have to run a pll/vco recalibration each time you retune
[14:03] <Laurenceb> tbh i dont really understand how that works
[14:03] <Laurenceb> itd help if there was some FHSS example code, but there isnt
[14:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.n-prize.com/ <- heh hes added a coutdown clock
[14:05] <Laurenceb> hmm i somehow suspect he'll keep the money
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[15:00] Nick change: MikeMc -> earthshine
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[15:32] <earthshine> test
[15:46] <fsphil> you passed
[16:00] <earthshine> thanks
[16:15] <Laurenceb> lol
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[16:23] <griffonbot> @N9XTN: NSTAR 10-A recovered near Brayton IA #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/N9XTN/status/28609054770]
[16:26] <m1x10> lol
[16:28] <griffonbot> @dcrand: RT @N9XTN: NSTAR 10-A recovered near Brayton IA #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/dcrand/status/28609445384]
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[17:31] <gb73d> join #-iwebradio on starchat at the top of the hour, 1900 bst for Calling All Radio Nutz DXers show , 73s see ya there, tune in at http://ss1.shoutzone.net:8400/
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[17:56] <gb73d> join #-iwebradio on starchat at the top of the hour, 1900 bst for Calling All Radio Nutz DXers show , 73s see ya there, tune in at http://ss1.shoutzone.net:8400/
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[19:02] <DrLuke> Hello everybody! I have a question: at which altitude does the air start to be completely dead, as in completely windless?
[19:07] <m1x10> when no atmosfair?
[19:07] <m1x10> that is very high altitude considering HAB altitudes
[19:09] <Gnea> well, as temperature decreases, so too does the amount of wind, but wind never becomes fully 0%
[19:09] <Gnea> there's always going to be some very minute circulation
[19:09] <Gnea> *circulation
[19:09] <russss> I think a better question would be at what pressure does the wind cease to become a consideration for a balloon
[19:10] <Gnea> indeed
[19:11] <russss> as for temperature - the temperature of the thermosphere is actually >500 degrees, but there's not much air so you can't really tell.
[19:11] Nick change: DagoRed -> kd0mto
[19:15] <Gnea> some areas will have more wind than others, depending on the conditions and what makes it happen, but it's all variable and at higher altitudes, less likely to be an issue
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:18] <fsphil> evening
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:18] <Laurenceb> l=PINC; while(!(PINC&(~l)&0x01)) //wait for rising edge on portc.0 l=PINC;
[19:18] <Laurenceb> that should loop untila rising edge right?
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[19:23] <fsphil> wouldn't that loop until either a rising or falling edge?
[19:23] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, not bad here - you?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> me too
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> solved the electricial problem
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> *electrician
[19:24] <DanielRichman> that's good news :)
[19:24] <Laurenceb> fsphil: only rising
[19:25] <Laurenceb> but its not working at all properly - im putting in a few khz and its only running as if it were about 100hz
[19:26] <fsphil> PINC could have changed between the test and the assignment
[19:27] <fsphil> I think the loop would miss that
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Daniel :)
[19:29] <fsphil> while(!((r = PINC)&(~l)&0x01)) l = r; // might work better?
[19:29] <Laurenceb> its a 19khz square wave
[19:30] <Laurenceb> 517 .L22: 120:comm2.c **** l=PINC; 121:comm2.c **** while(!(PINC&(~l)&0x01)) //wait for rising edge on portc.0 - the filter clk output. 122:comm2.c **** l=PINC; 519 .LM64: 520 01b0 86B1 in r24,38-32 121:comm2.c **** while(!(PINC&(~l)&0x01)) //wait for rising edge on portc.0 - the filter clk output. 522 .LM65:
[19:31] <Laurenceb> does that look sensible - from the .lst output
[19:31] <Laurenceb> im thinking about how while(!(PINC&(~l)&0x01)) appears twice
[19:34] <fsphil> try changing it so it only reads PINC the once for each loop
[19:35] <fsphil> any changes between the two reads will be missed
[19:35] <Laurenceb> well its faster for a start
[19:35] Action: Laurenceb is rather confused by this
[19:36] <Laurenceb> are you saying 00000 read one 00011111110000 readtwo ?
[19:37] <fsphil> something like that
[19:37] <Laurenceb> hmm aiui thats now what the clk line looks like, but i dont have a scope to hand :-/
[19:37] <Laurenceb> *not
[19:37] <Laurenceb> bus pirate says it is 19.2khz as it should be
[19:38] <fsphil> yea scopes are great for this kind of thing - I miss having one here
[19:38] <Laurenceb> i need to get one when i have some money...
[19:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10693485
[19:39] <Laurenceb> *sigh*
[19:39] <Laurenceb> i was at uni with the guys who started that up
[19:40] <Laurenceb> and i cant even afford a scope :(
[19:41] <Laurenceb> anyway it is giving the correct rate output, thanks for pointing me in the right direction
[19:42] <fsphil> sweet
[19:42] <fsphil> what's it for?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> syncing the avr to the adc clk on the chipcon
[19:43] <Laurenceb> theres a "diagnostics" pin on the chipcon that you can setup to chuck out various internal signals, im outputting the adc clk to avoid clock squew issues
[19:43] <m1x10> oh oh Lunar_Lander !
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> hi m1x10
[19:45] <Laurenceb> why oh oh ? gymbal lock?
[19:46] <SpeedEvil> I would offer to lend you - but it's a bit far. :)
[19:46] <m1x10> hehe
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> Gimbal Lock
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah back in the Apollo days...
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[19:48] <Laurenceb> oh yeah http://i.imgur.com/qVnhR.png
[19:48] <Laurenceb> how utterly awesome is that
[19:49] <Laurenceb> clk cynced and retuning without interrupting the data stream
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[20:01] <Laurenceb> interestingly theres virtually no harmonics coming off those mfsk packets - shows how much the clk sync helps
[20:04] <Laurenceb> just need to sync the whole thing to a gps now XD
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[20:05] <Laurenceb> in fact.. if a load of people had these synced to gps you could do some really cool aperture synthesis by sharing the data streams
[20:09] <m1x10> http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl !!
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> how synced?
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> you mean some sort of 1hz tick?
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[20:20] <Laurenceb> maybe yeah
[20:20] <Laurenceb> oh wonderful now fldigi is broken again
[20:20] <Laurenceb> it things everything is 4ksps
[20:21] <fsphil> heh, I'm *trying* to break it :) I've got a crash but it only happens once every hour or so
[20:21] <Laurenceb> how do you set the waterfall to 4khz bandwidth?
[20:23] <fsphil> config -> waterfall -> fft processing
[20:23] <Laurenceb> yeah it definitely thinks that wav files are now at 4ksps
[20:23] <fsphil> increase the upper limit
[20:24] <Laurenceb> this makes no sense whatsoever
[20:24] <Laurenceb> not there
[20:24] <Laurenceb> hmm i think this POS need to be wiped from my hard drive and replaced with a better version
[20:25] <Laurenceb> its the one from the repo
[20:26] <Laurenceb> thing is that dl-fldigi is missing the play wav option altogether (installed from source)
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> thanks m1x10
[20:27] <Laurenceb> hows the best way to completely remove dl-fldigi?
[20:28] <fsphil> it's there on mine -- you may be missing a dependency?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> how to check?
[20:29] <fsphil> it should dump some information after /configure about what features are enabled
[20:30] <Laurenceb> ive removed all the install stuff
[20:30] <Laurenceb> guess i could grep for fl-digi and delete it all
[20:31] <Laurenceb> apt-get cant take care of it right?
[20:31] <Laurenceb> as it was installed from source
[20:31] <fsphil> if you installed from source then nope
[20:32] <Laurenceb> what happens if i just reinstall it?
[20:32] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander thx for what?
[20:33] <fsphil> should be fine
[20:33] <fsphil> the binary name will be the same
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> the rover montage webcam
[20:33] <m1x10> a
[20:33] <m1x10> hehe
[20:34] <Laurenceb> where is the binary?
[20:37] <fsphil> here it's /usr/bin/dl-fldigi
[20:37] <Laurenceb> where is the dl-fldigibinary located on the fs ?
[20:37] <fsphil> try whereis dl-fldigi
[20:37] <Laurenceb> ok
[20:39] <Laurenceb> ok rmoved it, ill install it afresh
[20:40] <Laurenceb> need to run autoconf or something?
[20:40] <Laurenceb> oh theres instructions nvm
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[20:42] <fsphil> autoreconf -vfi
[20:42] <fsphil> ./configure --disable-flarq
[20:42] <fsphil> (assuming you don't need flarq)
[20:45] <Laurenceb> yeah, compiling atm
[20:47] <Laurenceb> :( installed it but no audio option
[20:47] <fsphil> what did configure say?
[20:47] <Laurenceb> file - folders, logs and macros
[20:48] <fsphil> look for "fldigi build options"
[20:48] <Laurenceb> aha sndfile -----no
[20:48] <fsphil> bingo
[20:48] <Laurenceb> i need to change that to yes right?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> cool, bbl eating
[20:49] <fsphil> if you've sndfile installed it should find it
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[22:16] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:17] <natrium42> o/
[22:17] Action: jcoxon has now got 5x NTX2 modules and 2xNTX2-HP modules
[22:17] <jcoxon> the high power modules are for juxta
[22:17] <natrium42> :)
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[22:18] <natrium42> juxta is pushing the dl-system to the limit
[22:18] <jcoxon> yeah i heard
[22:19] <jcoxon> its okay as long as you load the page early
[22:19] <natrium42> or use chrome :D
[22:19] <natrium42> anyway, perhaps server should send encoded polyline
[22:19] <Laurenceb> so i have sndfiles tools and programs
[22:19] <Laurenceb> but configure isnt finding them
[22:19] <natrium42> i think a lot of js compyting might be for the polyline
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[22:20] <fsphil> Laurenceb, you got the dev package installed?
[22:21] <Laurenceb> nothing called sndfile-dev
[22:21] <fsphil> try libsndfile1-dev
[22:23] <Laurenceb> ah thanks
[22:25] <fsphil> jcoxon, is there any visual difference between the hp and normal version?
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[22:26] <jcoxon> doesn't look like it
[22:26] <jcoxon> but must admit i haven't even taken them out of the box
[22:26] <jcoxon> or the label is different of course
[22:26] <jcoxon> that might be what your meant
[22:27] <fsphil> just pondering what the difference is between them, or if they're the same device but with some really tiny tweak
[22:33] <Laurenceb> hmm same issue
[22:33] <Laurenceb> fsphil: if you replay a sound file, how wide is it?
[22:33] <Laurenceb> on the waterfall
[22:34] <fsphil> it doesn't make any difference
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[22:35] <fsphil> and crashes if it's stereo :)
[22:39] <Laurenceb> oh its audacity thats screwing up now..
[22:39] <Laurenceb> or maybe just me trying to use it...
[22:39] <Laurenceb> says its downsampled but when isave it hasnt
[22:43] <Laurenceb> nvm, i should shut up
[22:51] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/5MfgZ.png
[22:51] <Laurenceb> working perfectly now - finally
[22:52] <Laurenceb> need to reflash the ntx2 so its not txing phone numbers lol
[22:53] <fsphil> haha, also need to censor better :p
[22:54] <Laurenceb> i kind of trust you guys
[22:55] <Randomskk> besides I can just read the waterfall to get your phone number clearly :P
[22:55] <fsphil> yep - my own details are all over the net by now
[22:55] <Laurenceb> wonder when the next launch from cambridge is
[22:55] <Laurenceb> need to test this thing :P
[22:56] <Randomskk> we [cusf] are doing a few test launches soon
[22:56] <Laurenceb> see if i can pick up a live payload in derby
[22:56] <Randomskk> for freshers and stuff
[22:56] <Laurenceb> cool
[22:56] <fsphil> sweet
[22:56] <Randomskk> and theoretically one even sooner but not sure yet
[22:56] <Randomskk> theoretically they are meant to tell me since I'm on the notam but.. :P
[22:56] <fsphil> jcoxon, you still planning the floater test?
[22:57] <Laurenceb> that just sounds wrong
[22:57] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: if you want to post/drop off something that can be shoved in a box and sent up, feel free
[22:57] <fsphil> yea
[22:57] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: i was mire thinking of trying to pick it up here
[22:57] <Randomskk> oh, I see what you mean
[22:57] <Laurenceb> but i dont have a very big yagi
[22:57] <fsphil> how sensitive is your receiver? say compared to the 817?
[22:58] <Randomskk> will let you know
[22:58] <Laurenceb> just my small diy one
[22:58] <Randomskk> nothing wrong with diy yagis :P
[22:58] <Laurenceb> but that can be solved with a bigger diy one
[22:58] Action: Randomskk has got 300km or so on a diy yagi
[22:59] <Laurenceb> when i crunched through all the theory to see what the noise figure was i got 6.5dB for the cc
[22:59] <Laurenceb> so not as good as some of the kit people are using, but no reason ishouldnt be able to get 100km or so
[22:59] <fsphil> aye, esp. with the yagi
[23:00] <Laurenceb> also i could stick an lna on the front
[23:00] <Randomskk> fsphil set the range record with a vertical iirc
[23:00] <Laurenceb> iv also got a spare cc eval board you could borrow to try at a launch
[23:01] <fsphil> that antenna has 7.2dB gain on 70cm
[23:01] <fsphil> any decent yagi would beat it
[23:01] <Randomskk> pretty epic amount of gain given its radiation pattern
[23:01] <Randomskk> but yea
[23:01] <Randomskk> I guess your position gives you additional advantage in getting lots of range :P
[23:01] <fsphil> I bet its rubbish up close
[23:03] <fsphil> oddly enough I had trouble receiving much from the Apex II launch earlier in the year, even with the yagi
[23:03] <Laurenceb> http://parts.digikey.sg/1/1/1248298-module-eval-cc1020-433mhz-cc1020emk-433.html thats what im using
[23:04] <Laurenceb> tho mouser is cheaper http://gb.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/CC1020EMK-433/?qs=MufAK3yimRPJmsskQQyWrg==
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[23:14] <jcoxon> fsphil, not for a while
[23:14] <jcoxon> payload isn't ready
[23:14] <jcoxon> not worth risking it
[23:14] <jcoxon> in a few weekends time i'll do the floater
[23:18] <Laurenceb> for lazy people like me is there anywhere cheap to buy a yagi?
[23:19] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, this is the one i got: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/a430s10r-diamond-430440mhz-70cm-yagi-p-3962.html?osCsid=a61bbcc32e6a658adffde6341ab8e3a7
[23:20] <Laurenceb> not bad
[23:20] <jcoxon> folds up quite well
[23:21] <jcoxon> and could do a power ranger stylee and stack them as a few of us have that model
[23:21] <Laurenceb> does it come with coax?
[23:21] <jcoxon> no
[23:21] <Laurenceb> SO-239 is on the body of the ant?
[23:22] <jcoxon> yes
[23:22] <Laurenceb> where did you get a connector from?
[23:23] <jcoxon> oh i got a coax cable as well and as my ft817 has a SO-239 as well
[23:24] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[23:25] <fsphil> you can probably get a pre-made patch lead with two pl-259's on either end
[23:25] <fsphil> but it's pretty simple to make them
[23:26] <fsphil> and cheaper
[23:26] <jcoxon> thats what i did
[23:26] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:26] <jcoxon> got a nice chunky cable
[23:26] <jcoxon> not rg58
[23:26] <fsphil> (except the rg-213 plugs ... those are evil)
[23:26] <Laurenceb> you can get SO-239 to sma
[23:26] <Laurenceb> i could stick the cc on the back of the ant
[23:27] <Laurenceb> then just run usb up to it
[23:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:27] <fsphil> that would be quite nifty
[23:27] <jcoxon> i've got a rfbee from seeedstudio
[23:27] <fsphil> some people do that with wifi ap's, put them up with the antenna in a waterproof box
[23:27] <jcoxon> that has a CC1101 on it
[23:28] <jcoxon> they are setup to do 868
[23:28] <jcoxon> but i'm thinking perhaps to try 434
[23:28] Action: Laurenceb grabs datasheet
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: especially fun if you could do one USB2 wire -> hub -> array
[23:29] <Laurenceb> ooh thats nice
[23:29] <jcoxon> (rfbees have a cc1101 radio + atmega168 on board)
[23:29] <Laurenceb> they have better packet support
[23:30] <Laurenceb> more like si4432, but still not as good
[23:30] <jcoxon> well developed code it seems
[23:30] <jcoxon> the output power is very low though
[23:32] <natrium42> jcoxon, so, did you see http://finch.am/projects/arduinogsm/
[23:32] <natrium42> ?
[23:33] <jcoxon> nope
[23:33] <natrium42> $25 USB GPRS thingy can be hacked with UART
[23:33] <natrium42> to send SMS
[23:33] <jcoxon> wow
[23:33] <jcoxon> very cool
[23:34] <natrium42> :)
[23:34] <Laurenceb> cant see any I or Q registers in there :(
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[23:34] <Laurenceb> doesnt look like cc1101 is hackable for sdr
[23:34] <Laurenceb> still, very nice for packet mode
[23:35] <Laurenceb> night, cya all
[23:35] <jcoxon> i was planning to use them as a local network on the balloon
[23:35] <jcoxon> so have one in the payload
[23:35] <jcoxon> and one on the balloon, reporting back data
[23:35] <jcoxon> and perhaps controlling a valve
[23:38] <fsphil> habnet
[23:38] <jcoxon> its been done before in the states
[23:39] <jcoxon> but then i realised that as the cc1101 can do 2FSK
[23:39] <fsphil> you'd loose the device on the balloon though? after it bursts?
[23:39] <jcoxon> and can in theory do 434
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> If you have a valve - why not have a feedthrough
[23:39] <jcoxon> then that would be awesome
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering earlier about silly antennas - 1km dipole
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> For the 136KHz band
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> but I then realised it was ham only, not ISM, so you can't legally do that
[23:42] <fsphil> wouldn't you need a fairly large antenna on the rx side too?
[23:42] <fsphil> though in saying that, LW radios don't seem to have a problem
[23:42] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:42] <SpeedEvil> yes, though it's not quite as bad.
[23:43] <fsphil> I believe someone used a huge antenna attached to a kite to transmit a signal on 9khz
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah - under 9 isn't regulated IIRC
[23:45] <fsphil> an antenna from a hab wouldn't have the size limits of a kite
[23:45] <fsphil> though the weight might become an issue
[23:47] <fsphil> Below 9khz "(not allocated)"
[23:48] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about that source of Al wire.
[23:48] <fsphil> hmm.. seems sub-9khz is not permitted in the UK
[23:49] <fsphil> you need a NoV from ofcom (blah)
[23:49] <fsphil> spoil sports
[23:51] <fsphil> anyway, bed time. night all
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[00:00] --- Mon Oct 25 2010