highaltitude.log.20101022

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[05:30] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: We inflated and examined the old SNOX2 balloon to measure length after inflation. Video tour here #arhab #HAB http://yfrog.us/49pc5zz [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/28377070672]
[05:38] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: SNOX2 balloon is nearly identical to balloons we'll be flying. It crashed in 2008, got ripped, and is now patched up for demos #arhab #HAB [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/28377478100]
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[05:52] <griffonbot> @steamfire: RT @LVL1WhiteStar: We inflated and examined the old SNOX2 balloon to measure length after inflation. Video tour here #arhab #HAB http: ... [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/28378134356]
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[05:57] <griffonbot> @steamfire: @ethanharstad cool, are you using dl-fldigi telemetry? If so, we could run it if you need it, w/ web remote rig control. #arhab [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/28378394867]
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[06:59] <m1x10> energizer alkaline Capacity 2779mAh
[07:00] <m1x10> energizer lithiums Capacity 3000mAh
[07:00] <m1x10> AA
[07:00] <m1x10> i thought lithiums last x7 !
[07:03] <jonsowman> it's not quite as simple as that
[07:04] <jonsowman> capacity is a function of temperature and discharge rate
[07:04] <m1x10> jonsowman hello
[07:04] <jonsowman> hi
[07:04] <m1x10> say we put them both in same conditions
[07:05] <m1x10> then both have almost same capacity
[07:05] <m1x10> 2780-3000
[07:05] <jonsowman> depends on the conditions
[07:05] <m1x10> same conditions ?
[07:06] <jonsowman> the lithiums will maintain their capacity better with increasing discharge rate
[07:07] <jonsowman> they'll keep their nominal capacity over a wider range of temperatures and discharge rates
[07:07] <m1x10> yes
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[07:15] <m1x10> jonsowman
[07:15] <m1x10> what about this one:
[07:15] <m1x10> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=N538-ND
[07:16] <m1x10> do u know it?
[07:16] <jonsowman> nope
[07:16] <jonsowman> I do now
[07:16] <jonsowman> :P
[07:17] <m1x10> :p
[07:17] <m1x10> from what you read is it ok for us ?
[07:18] <jonsowman> well, it depends what you're planning to do with it
[07:18] <m1x10> my backup recovery system
[07:18] <m1x10> 9v
[07:18] <jonsowman> depends how much current it draws and long you want the system to run for
[07:18] <m1x10> with 6 alkalines AA in series lasted for 24hrs
[07:19] <m1x10> with 6 alkalines AA in series lasted for 24hrs sending 24sms
[07:19] <m1x10> sorry
[07:19] <m1x10> with 6 alkalines AA in series lasted for 24hrs sending 14sms
[07:19] <jonsowman> i can't see that PP3 lasting 24 hours
[07:19] <m1x10> PP3?
[07:19] <jonsowman> 9V
[07:19] <jonsowman> but it's not really possible to tell because I don't know the capacity of your 6xAAs
[07:20] <m1x10> its energizers AA
[07:20] <m1x10> 2779
[07:20] <m1x10> so I guess half the capacity will last say 12hrs
[07:21] <m1x10> and half the above capacity will last 6hrs
[07:21] <m1x10> 2779/2=1389
[07:21] <m1x10> and
[07:21] <m1x10> 1389/2=694
[07:26] <m1x10> hence, I can say with some certainty that a 9v 750mAh will be ok with that system for 5-6hrs
[07:27] <jonsowman> do you know the current requirement of the system?
[07:28] <m1x10> no
[07:28] <jonsowman> I'm looking at the E91 datasheet
[07:28] <jonsowman> which is the Energizer AA Alkaline
[07:28] <m1x10> EN91
[07:28] <m1x10> yes
[07:29] <jonsowman> you'll get 2780mAh but *only* at 25mA
[07:29] <jonsowman> at 21C
[07:29] <jonsowman> compare how quickly the capacity falls off with increasing current between the E(N)91 (alkaline) and L91 (lithium)
[07:30] <jonsowman> in fact the L91 datasheet has exactly that graph on its first page
[07:30] <m1x10> yes I need to buy first
[07:32] <m1x10> ebay does not have those 9v :(
[07:32] <m1x10> Digikey offers it at 10$ omg
[07:33] <jonsowman> if your circuit uses significantly more than 25mA you're not getting the capacity you think you're getting
[07:33] <m1x10> btw, yesterday I did my first buy from ebay: got 12AAA at 9Euro
[07:33] <m1x10> jonsowman: it draws for sure 25mA
[07:33] <m1x10> that could be >100mA
[07:33] <jonsowman> exactly
[07:33] <m1x10> arduino+gps+gsm
[07:34] <jonsowman> in which case the alkalines only have an effective capacity of 2250mAh
[07:34] <m1x10> avr sleeping+gps uart disabled+gsm idle
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[07:35] <m1x10> when its about to send sms only then it wakes up
[07:35] <m1x10> then sleeps again
[07:36] <m1x10> so when i draw more and in low temp that 2779 could become ~2000
[07:36] <m1x10> thats your point?
[07:36] <jonsowman> or even less
[07:36] <jonsowman> but yes, that's my point
[07:36] <m1x10> yes
[07:36] <m1x10> nice
[07:37] <m1x10> do u know some good site on battery theory?
[07:37] <m1x10> I need to know these things
[07:38] <jonsowman> I don't. I'm sure someone here does
[07:38] <jonsowman> anyway, lectures, bbl
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[07:47] <juxta|console> ping jonsowman
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[09:00] <Upu> DanielRichman about ?
[09:18] <Upu> ping pong anyone who deals with Nessie about please ?
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[10:03] <Upu> cheers jonsowman
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[11:24] <m1x10> I've just enabled GPU support on chrome 8 and it rocks
[11:25] <m1x10> heavy sites are appearing in 1-2 seconds
[11:35] Action: Laurenceb_ wishes there was better documentation for octave
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[11:52] <juxta_> ping Darkside
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[11:58] <Darkside> juxta_: hey
[11:58] <Darkside> i reckon i might be able to get a few nut boards made up at uni
[12:04] <juxta_> oh, cool
[12:04] <juxta_> we'll see how things go - it's not too much of a big deal for us to knock them up at home fortunately :)
[12:04] <juxta_> but the new board I'm working on will be a bit more tricky I guess
[12:05] <juxta_> we had a fun day of sorting out repeater issues today
[12:05] <juxta_> as it turns out the RX freq we had picked is very close to the third harmonic of the TX freq, oh deary :(
[12:06] <juxta_> eventually got it sorted with a bit more space between antennas + a notch filter
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[12:35] <DanielRichman> Upu: yep; I'm here. Got the email - that's all fine, no problem at all
[12:36] <DanielRichman> Upu: 0700 BST or GMT?
[12:38] <Darkside> juxta_: cool
[12:38] <Darkside> i'm in the CA atm :P
[12:38] <Darkside> basically the whole CA exec is in here, geting pissed :P
[12:38] <Darkside> very amusing
[12:39] <juxta_> CA?
[12:40] <juxta_> oh, is this the final year projects festivities?
[12:42] <jonsowman> hello all
[12:42] <jonsowman> juxta_: hows the predictor?
[12:43] <juxta_> hey jonsowman
[12:43] <juxta_> still having issues I think
[12:43] <jonsowman> okey
[12:43] <jonsowman> hang on
[12:43] <juxta_> i'll just try again
[12:44] <juxta_> ok - confirmed, same issue
[12:45] <juxta_> (sticks at 25% wind fetch)
[12:45] <jonsowman> ok will try clearing gfs cache
[12:46] <jonsowman> try now
[12:46] <juxta_> ok, 2 secs
[12:47] <juxta_> hmm, seems to be sticking at 10% this time
[12:47] <juxta_> UUID was 77a81d1fadc7e63a00aa287590a8562993eca888 if it's relevant
[12:48] <jonsowman> hmm
[12:49] <jonsowman> http://pastie.org/1240588
[12:49] <jonsowman> its a nomads thing
[12:50] <juxta_> arr
[12:50] <jonsowman> it /should/ sort itself out once the 06z dataset is released
[12:50] <jonsowman> it should really have already been released, but the predictor can't find it
[12:50] <jonsowman> best dataset it finds is 00z
[12:50] <juxta_> nomads seems wonderfully reliable
[12:51] <jonsowman> oh it is
[12:51] <juxta_> what's the go if you actually rely on this sort of data on a regular basis?
[12:51] <jonsowman> their high availability system is beyond all comprehensio
[12:51] <jonsowman> n
[12:51] <juxta_> do they sell you a subscription to a service that actually works?
[12:52] <jonsowman> i've no idea, probably
[12:53] <juxta_> ahh well
[12:53] <juxta_> we have a good idea where's it going :)
[12:53] <juxta_> is it possible to pull previous datasets jonsowman?
[12:54] <jonsowman> no
[12:54] <jonsowman> they get rid of them quickly
[12:55] <juxta_> ah well
[12:56] <juxta_> hopefully it's better in the morning :)
[12:56] <jonsowman> apparently there are old datasets available, the predictor isn't set up to do that at the moment
[12:56] <jonsowman> its not something that's normally useful
[12:57] <juxta_> yeah
[12:57] <juxta_> when things work as they should
[12:57] <juxta_> what do NOAA say about the issues?
[12:57] <jonsowman> I've never yet got a response from them to emails
[12:58] <juxta_> bah
[12:59] <jonsowman> mm
[12:59] <juxta_> hmm, looks like the datasets go back a month or so?
[13:00] <jonsowman> indeed
[13:00] <juxta_> there's no 18z data for yesterday either, pfft
[13:01] <jonsowman> sometimes datasets are just not ever released
[13:01] <jonsowman> no idea why that might be
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[13:02] <juxta_> hmm
[13:03] <juxta_> is it possible to revert back to the most recent valid data when current data is not available jonsowman?
[13:03] <jonsowman> yeah it should
[13:03] <jonsowman> the predictor copes with that, it just uses the newest model
[13:03] <juxta_> ooh
[13:03] <juxta_> the data is there now
[13:03] <jonsowman> the current issue is something more subtle
[13:04] <juxta_> ah
[13:04] <jonsowman> ive no idea what though
[13:05] <juxta_> the 00z and 06z datasets seem to be showing up under today now
[13:05] <jonsowman> yep
[13:05] <jonsowman> and the predictor finds 06z
[13:05] <jonsowman> but dies with a "[...] 06z is not an available dataset"
[13:06] <juxta_> how annoying
[13:06] <juxta_> what about moving back to an earlier model if that error is returned?
[13:08] <Darkside> hows the predictions looking for tomorrow juxta_ ?
[13:08] <juxta_> as per above ;p
[13:09] <jonsowman> yeah that might be worth implementing
[13:10] <juxta_> noaa's dataset availability seems to come in waves ;p
[13:11] <jonsowman> really
[13:11] <jonsowman> heh
[13:12] <juxta_> maybe they just slack off over the weekends
[13:12] <juxta_> as our last 3 launches have been weekends and I dont think it was working correctly on any of them
[13:12] <juxta_> :)
[13:21] <juxta_> ok, sleep time
[13:22] <juxta_> night all, thanks for checking the predictor out jonsowman :)
[13:22] <jonsowman> no worries, hopefully it'll be fine again soon
[13:22] <jonsowman> night
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[13:44] <m1x10> I just learned how a 9v battery is made
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[13:51] <m1x10> anatomy of a 9v bat: http://imagebin.org/119732
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[14:18] <Laurenceb_> thats why they are stupidly heavy
[14:20] <russss> the alkaline ones are 6x1.5V cells
[14:20] <russss> they're basically 6xAAAs tied together
[14:20] <Darkside> more like AAAAs
[14:21] <russss> yeah, true
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[14:21] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9v_into_AAAA.jpg
[14:26] <DanielRichman> (option_values, args) = parser.parse_args()
[14:26] <DanielRichman> options = option_values.__dict__.copy()
[14:26] <DanielRichman> that makes things so much easier... I don't know what they were doing with optparse
[14:26] <DanielRichman> some strange weird values object
[14:39] <m1x10> that battery is also rechargable
[14:40] <m1x10> so i guess it cells contain different chemical compounds
[14:40] <m1x10> it/its
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[15:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.lessemf.com/278.html
[15:11] Action: Laurenceb_ wants
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> stupid ITAR
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[15:14] <SpeedEvil> what for??
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> NMR stuff
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[15:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.gctspace.com/main.html <-lolwut
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[15:35] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> "Don't be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality. If you can dream it, you can make it so."
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> quote on one of the pages.
[15:35] <SpeedEvil> no you bloody can't.
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[15:52] <Laurenceb_> cya
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[16:21] <m1x10> Best Tarantino movie ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIxcVzwLR1k
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[17:52] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:52] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: i was thinking about that skytraq idea, aiui it has the linear motor built into the track, which has got to be expensive
[17:53] <Laurenceb> so i was wondering it you could have the motor on the vehicle, and transmit power to it from the track without any shoes etc
[17:54] <Laurenceb> i think you could make "micro"strip transmission lines inside the track, and have a non contact nearfield RF pickup on the wehicle
[17:56] <m1x10> http://www.robotbase.cn/
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> You mean indutrak?
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> /skytran
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> The track is passive.
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> It's just a hell of a lot of litz wire.
[17:59] <Laurenceb> oh
[17:59] <Laurenceb> so how does the power get to the vehicle?
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Then a halbach array of magnets on the vehicle whch induces the lift field when moved.
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[17:59] <SpeedEvil> The power for locomotion is seperate of course.
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> And outside the levitation.
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> I'd - if I was designing it - be tempted to just use a bike tyre for traction.
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> As the l/d is quite good at moderate speeds, the actual thrust needed is low.
[18:03] <Laurenceb> how does the power get tot he loco?
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> That's an issue, yes.
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> The power needed is quite small - a couple of kilowatts?
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> at most.
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> I can't think of a nice way to transfer power, without making the track a lot more complex though.
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> I wonder about short segments - ~1/10th - of the track which charge supercaps
[18:06] <Laurenceb> thats what i was thinking of transmission lines for
[18:14] <Laurenceb> the you can capacitively couple to the vehicle
[18:17] <Laurenceb> or rather to a small shoe that sits just off the surface of the line
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[18:18] <Laurenceb> itd all be inside the U shaped enclosure that holds the levitation stuff
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[18:57] <Laurenceb> error: storage class specified for parameter s08
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[19:39] <Upu> Evening
[19:39] <jonsowman> hi Upu
[19:39] <Upu> DanielRichman sorry been out at a beer festival
[19:39] <Upu> Hi there
[19:39] <fsphil> woo
[19:39] <DanielRichman> ;-)
[19:39] <DanielRichman> not a problem at all
[19:40] <Upu> I think they are doing the work from 9am BST so anytime is good before then
[19:43] <DanielRichman> so shut it down at 8:58 BST ?
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[20:37] <Upu> workmen DanielRichman no idea what time they are actually starting
[20:39] <DanielRichman> Upu: so they are starting some time after 9PM?
[20:39] <DanielRichman> *AM
[20:44] <Upu> yeah sorry I don't have much info
[20:45] <Upu> I've been advised to shutdown before 7am tommorrow morning
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[20:50] <DanielRichman> allright; that's fine. I'll schedule an at job
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[20:53] <juxta_> morning all
[20:53] <jonsowman> morning juxta_
[20:53] <juxta_> heya jonsowman
[20:54] <juxta_> still no luck it seems sadly
[20:54] <DanielRichman> at> halt
[20:54] <DanielRichman> at> <EOT>
[20:54] <DanielRichman> job 10273 at Sat Oct 23 05:50:00 2010
[20:54] <DanielRichman> Upu: ^^
[20:54] <juxta_> what's job 10273?
[20:54] <DanielRichman> shutdown
[20:54] <juxta_> oh
[20:55] <juxta_> of nessie?
[20:55] <jonsowman> yes
[20:55] <juxta_> righto
[20:55] <DanielRichman> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas-tools/browse_thread/thread/200d60c0bfa6f3f0
[20:57] <juxta_> jonsowman: having a play with the grib.us desktop app, it seems to download data successfully at the moment - perhaps the issue is in the python data grabber?
[20:57] <jonsowman> potentially
[20:57] <jonsowman> hang on
[20:58] <jonsowman> hmm
[20:58] <jonsowman> nope still failing to get data
[20:59] <juxta_> hrm, ah well
[20:59] <jonsowman> it's been fine up till now
[21:00] <juxta_> as in a few hours ago?
[21:00] <jonsowman> and this has happened before... I don't know the python data grabber well enough to delve too far into it
[21:00] <jonsowman> yes
[21:01] <juxta_> damn these australians waking up and ruining everything
[21:01] <juxta_> ok, i'd better go shower and whatnot
[21:02] <juxta_> back in a little bit
[21:02] <jonsowman> ok
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[21:24] <juxta> jonsowman, my copy of the hourly predictor is getting a different error when trying to download now, not sure if it's a different version of the script though
[21:31] <Upu> cheers DanielRichman that should do it
[21:31] <Upu> someone will power it all back on when done
[21:34] <jonsowman> hmm
[21:35] <juxta> actually, it grabbed a dataset successfully just now
[21:35] <jonsowman> ive no idea what's going on
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[22:13] <Laurenceb> can anyone help me with a basic avr problem
[22:13] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/yuYq1aKG http://pastebin.com/THn3Z2S6
[22:14] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/cRt6m4Uq line 173, have i screwed up the makefile?
[22:14] <Laurenceb> trying to use a source file in /libs
[22:14] <DanielRichman> you're missing a semicolon on one of your prototypes in a header
[22:14] <Laurenceb> or rather libs
[22:15] <Laurenceb> oh good suggestion
[22:15] <Laurenceb> yep i am, fixed now
[22:15] <DanielRichman> ;)
[22:15] <Laurenceb> i should have realised that - out of practice :P
[22:16] <DanielRichman> It's not the most helpful error message. every single time I've seen that error, that's been the problem
[22:18] <Laurenceb> yeah me too come to think of it - knew id seen it before somewhere...
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[22:23] <Laurenceb> libs/CC1020.c:33: error: expected expression before { token
[22:23] <Laurenceb> dont see where thats coming from
[22:23] <Laurenceb> char InitializeCC1020(unsigned char* Configuration, unsigned char setconfig){
[22:25] <Laurenceb> oh hang on
[22:25] <Laurenceb> <-retard
[22:25] <Laurenceb> i should probably just stop using irc and learn to code properly
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[22:26] <DanielRichman> are you using an editor w. syntax hilighting?
[22:27] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:52] <Laurenceb> actually ive still got an error i cant work out libs/CC1020.c:25:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive
[22:52] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/B2vxQYvY
[22:53] <DanielRichman> What's CC1020.h?
[22:54] <DanielRichman> wait, it's not that
[22:54] <DanielRichman> 00000390 63 6c 75 64 65 20 22 43 43 31 30 32 30 2e 68 22 |clude "CC1020.h"|
[22:54] <DanielRichman> 000003a0 0d 0a 0d 0a 63 68 61 72 20 49 6e 69 74 69 61 6c |....char Initial|
[22:54] <DanielRichman> it might be upset over \r\n?
[22:54] <Laurenceb> woah why the hex
[22:55] <Laurenceb> ok..
[22:55] <Laurenceb> thats pretty cool whatever script you used for that :P
[22:55] <DanielRichman> hexdump
[22:55] <DanielRichman> it's in one of the coreutillsy packages "bsdmainutils" on ubuntu
[22:56] <DanielRichman> actually I don't think gcc cares about \r\n
[22:56] <DanielRichman> :<
[22:56] <Laurenceb> oh right
[22:56] <Laurenceb> no, i just rewrote it and same error
[22:56] <DanielRichman> It's just that it said "extra tokens at end of"
[22:56] <DanielRichman> so I wondered if there was something I couldn't see
[22:57] <Laurenceb> that was the warning before it said libs/CC1020.c:32: error: expected expression before { token
[22:57] <Laurenceb> i really dont get what its expecting
[22:57] <DanielRichman> the pastebin might be removing whatever's making it upset. Can you tarball & scp the code somewhere?
[23:02] <Laurenceb> k
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[23:09] <Laurenceb> http://filebin.ca/upzxsd/archive.tar.gz
[23:09] <Laurenceb> thanks for the help :D
[23:10] <MoALTz> if that isn't the problem then could there be issues within CC1020.h itself?
[23:10] <DanielRichman> ok so I type make
[23:10] <DanielRichman> the first error I get is
[23:10] <DanielRichman> libs/CC1020.c: In function InitializeCC1020:
[23:10] <DanielRichman> libs/CC1020.c:32: error: expected expression before { token
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[23:13] <Laurenceb> heh me too
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[23:13] <Laurenceb> at least its consostent
[23:13] <Laurenceb> *consistent
[23:13] <DanielRichman> so is 22:53 < Laurenceb> actually ive still got an error i cant work out libs/CC1020.c:25:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive
[23:13] <DanielRichman> "fixed?"
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[23:15] <Laurenceb> i think so
[23:15] <Laurenceb> i dont exactly understand why it went away
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[23:15] <Laurenceb> but im not seeing that now
[23:16] <Laurenceb> im just getting exactly the ame as you
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[23:16] <DanielRichman> ok. I think I understand what you're trying to do
[23:16] <DanielRichman> iirc you can't use a { array initialiser } or whatever its proper name is in that situation
[23:16] <DanielRichman> maybe you want to do something like http://pastie.org/private/hrdywrut9dnqftycbpysyg
[23:17] <DanielRichman> and/or progmem it to save some RAM
[23:17] <Laurenceb> oh of course
[23:17] <Laurenceb> yeah you can only array initialise when you declare
[23:18] <Laurenceb> doh
[23:18] <DanielRichman> then you need to #include <string.h> ( and #include <avr/delay.h> )
[23:20] <Laurenceb> yeah i missed out delay
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[23:25] <DanielRichman> I'm off now; have fun
[23:28] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:28] <Laurenceb> thanks
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 23 2010