highaltitude.log.20101021

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[01:04] <Darkside> sup juxta
[01:04] <shenki> sup Darkside
[01:04] <shenki> how's the report going?
[01:07] <Darkside> getting there
[01:07] <Darkside> just realised i'm going to need to go make some more measurements of a few things
[01:32] <Darkside> shenki: there?
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[01:44] <shenki> Darkside: yes
[01:44] <shenki> look to your left
[01:45] <Darkside> eh
[01:46] <Darkside> heh
[01:46] <Darkside> TURN LEFT
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[02:16] <shenki> juxta: projecthorus.org is loading very slowly
[02:17] <shenki> and/or not at all
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[02:44] <Darkside> shenki: ima boppin
[02:45] <shenki> Darkside: lunch time?
[02:46] <shenki> im heading over to DJs
[02:51] <Darkside> hmmm
[02:51] <Darkside> getting that way
[02:51] <Darkside> i want to finish this section first
[02:51] <Darkside> i'm almost done with the amplifier section
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[06:34] <m1x10> Hi all
[06:36] <m1x10> Backup recovery module - still up and running for 12:30 hrs with simple alkalines :)
[06:38] <Darkside> they might not work so well when they get cold
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[06:38] <m1x10> Ill be using lithums then.
[06:39] <Darkside> yup
[06:39] <Darkside> energizer lithiums work really well
[06:39] <m1x10> I just dont buy lithiums for the tests. Are expensive. So use cheap alk
[06:40] <Darkside> be careful with the lithiums tho, they have a higher open circuit voltage than alkalines
[06:40] <Darkside> its possible to blow things up
[06:43] <m1x10> I wonder what capcacity and what voltage have the coin cells
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[09:57] <Darkside> juxta: ping
[10:01] <m1x10> Darkside
[10:01] <Darkside> mm
[10:01] <m1x10> have you got your nick registered?
[10:01] <Darkside> yes
[10:01] <m1x10> I just found memoserv
[10:01] <m1x10> I will try to send a msg to u
[10:01] <m1x10> ok?
[10:01] <Darkside> uhmm ok
[10:02] <m1x10> let me know
[10:02] <m1x10> got it?
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[10:16] <m1x10> ping Darkside
[10:17] <Darkside> oh
[10:17] <Darkside> hmm
[10:17] <Darkside> haha cool
[10:17] <Darkside> yeo
[10:17] <Darkside> yep
[10:17] <Darkside> just had to look at my server tab to see the message
[10:19] <m1x10> ok thats nice
[10:19] <m1x10> feature
[10:19] <Darkside> heh
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[10:24] <m1x10> lol
[10:25] <m1x10> it also gives a report that you've red my msg
[10:25] <m1x10> [13:17] -MemoServ- Darkside has read your memo, which was sent at Oct 21 10:02:26 2010
[10:25] <Darkside> lol
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[10:54] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: this looks like the easiest way to do data over usb
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> ?
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> erm http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/rawhid.html
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> thought id pasted the link lol
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> up to 64KBytes/sec througput
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> or 30khz or so bandwidth
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/usb_serial.html
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> thats more like it - 1.1Mbyte/sec
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> What's the max jitter-free rate with no fifo though
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> but - yes - looks nteresting
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[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Umm - is the 'teensy USB board' art $18 all I need for that?
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Looks very interesting
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> yes
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> it has bootloader
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> looks like some of the usb function block - need to avoid that happening
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[11:44] <Darkside> hey juxta|console
[11:44] <Darkside> do you have the kml for horus 8?
[11:50] <juxta|console> hey Darkside
[11:50] <juxta|console> haven't gotten around to it yet
[11:50] <juxta|console> i do have a big dumpof data I can give you
[11:50] <juxta|console> but it'squite noisy and will need some filtering
[11:51] <Darkside> hrmm
[11:51] <Darkside> i just wanted something i could put on a map easily :P
[11:51] <juxta|console> hold on
[11:52] <Darkside> pretty pictures for the report, you know
[11:52] <juxta|console> i maye have a rough one
[11:52] <juxta|console> may*
[11:52] <Darkside> i have a screengrab from spacenear.us
[11:52] <Darkside> but i'd like something better
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[13:07] <Laurenceb_> oh wow http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=AY0X030-C&cat=168
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> 1.1T circular halbach array
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: ^ perfect for a mini MRI
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> neat
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> That's over a tiny volume though
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> well cubic inch
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> http://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog/index.php/2010/06/30/hard-drive-destruction/#more-410
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> square inch by 1/8th" it looked like
[13:27] <Laurenceb_> https://www.llnl.gov/str/Post.html
[13:28] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at busses.
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Came 2 min early, and I missed it.
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> I've been going on about that forever.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.askmar.com/Inductrack/2006-10-27%20ECCO%20Conceptual%20Design.pdf
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.askmar.com/Inductrack/inductrack.html
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> I really want http://www.skytran.net/phpsite/home/Home%20Intro.php implementing the above
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> a packet-switched hyper-light point-point rail system capable of being strung on light-poles.
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> crazy
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> I also love the concept of horse-drawn passive maglev.
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> Just because.
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> lmao
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[14:42] <m1x10> Hi, I just found pololu.com online store. Are they good?
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[17:44] <jcoxon> anyone up for a floater launch next week?
[17:46] <eroomde> jcoxon: yo
[17:46] <eroomde> funny you happened to be online on the one occassion that I am too
[17:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:47] <jcoxon> hows tricks
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[17:48] <eroomde> very good thanks
[17:48] <eroomde> happy personal life :)
[17:48] <jcoxon> oh really
[17:50] <fsphil> oh sounds like fun, I can certainly try tracking
[17:50] <jcoxon> i don't really have that much time...
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[17:51] <jcoxon> but could do wednesday evening/night
[17:52] <fsphil> any particular target? or just see what happens?
[17:52] <jcoxon> well to test the flight computer
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[18:10] <jcoxon> if it doesn't work out i'll postpone to a weekend soon
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[18:13] <natrium42> hello guest from france
[18:13] <jcoxon> hehe, evening natrium42
[18:14] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
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[18:15] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: Got a day in mind?
[18:16] <jcoxon> wednesday evening perhaps
[18:17] <m1x10> fsphil: sparkfun got my jpeg cam !!!
[18:17] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=10061
[18:18] <fsphil> ooh nice, out of stock though :)
[18:18] <m1x10> yes, got raped in a day :)
[18:18] <m1x10> its the RS232 type though
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[18:18] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:18] <m1x10> yo
[18:20] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, that said the forcast isn't great though its ridiculously far away
[18:23] <LazyLeopard> I should be able to manage tracking on Wednesday.
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[18:33] <m1x10> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap101018.html
[18:33] <m1x10> that is enough to heat earth for a couple of decades :)
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[18:54] <m1x10> lol
[18:54] <m1x10> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060522.html
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[19:25] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: i was looking at usb on atmega - its not exactly a magic bullet
[19:26] <Laurenceb> looks like you can send 64byte packets with the DPRAM, but theres a USBtick ISR that gets called every ms
[19:26] <Laurenceb> thats needed to setup the packet
[19:26] <Laurenceb> its rather annoying as i require jittle free register sampling over spi
[19:26] <Laurenceb> *jitter
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> It looks interesting for some things I was thinking of
[19:27] <Laurenceb> i guess i could use an interrupt for the sampling
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> I need a several channel logger for a solar probe
[19:27] <Laurenceb> and let it nest inside the usb isr
[19:28] <Laurenceb> but theres still opportunity for jitter as interrupts can be serviced during entery to another ISR
[19:28] <Laurenceb> or the stack gets messed up
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Unless you can code it in registers
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> and dedicate some
[19:29] <Laurenceb> yeah - lots of tricky asm
[19:30] <Laurenceb> gues i could setup the sampling on timer=x, and inside the sampling isr wait until timer = x+2 or something
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[19:30] <Laurenceb> removing the opportunity for any jitter
[19:31] <Laurenceb> or yeah asm the usb and sampling isrs
[19:31] <Laurenceb> so registers dont conflict
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> How long does the USB interrupt take, and can it itself take the jutter though?
[19:32] <Laurenceb> aiui it can take a bit of jitter, i forget how much
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[19:33] <Laurenceb> its a few us to run, the sampling takes similar time
[19:33] Action: Laurenceb wonders if theres a way to instruct gcc to avoid register conflicts between two blocks of code
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering more solar research. Several panels in a fixed orientation, to log irradiance over a year
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[19:33] <SpeedEvil> Prior to pondering actual installation
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[19:34] <Laurenceb> or just use the online solar irradiation untility thingy
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[19:35] <Laurenceb> i suspect 64Kbytes/sec should be possible, but i doubt anything more without jitter
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> There are a couple of wrinkles I'm wondering about.
[19:35] <Laurenceb> thats enough for 30khz bandwidth which is pretty respectable i guess
[19:35] <Laurenceb> order of mag more than ham kit
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> For example, how much can I gain with simple mirrors.
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Or white reflectors.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> yeah - iirc the solar irradiace calculator has diffuse light and clouds etc etc
[19:36] <Laurenceb> you could try emailing the developers as well
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> True.
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> OTOH - test panels give some limited actual RL experience.
[19:37] <Laurenceb> it even uses a DEM for shading FFS
[19:37] <Laurenceb> pretty impressive
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I saw that.
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> I assume it's running off SRTM
[19:37] <Laurenceb> it might just be some EU funded DEM project
[19:38] <Laurenceb> but AIUI theres no such data in the public domain
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> For example - how do encapsulated panels vs unencapsulated ones work at various concentrations.
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> STRM
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRTM
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> 90m outside US, 30m inside
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> apart from about a steradian at each pole
[19:40] Action: Laurenceb is writing a properly documented cc1020 library
[19:40] <Laurenceb> not fun
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> The world will thank you for it!
[19:40] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> You will get girls and money showered on you!
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe not.
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> But meh.
[19:41] <MrCraig> *sigh* people have still not adopted my custard creame and jammie dodgers barter system.
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[19:42] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like a good idea to me.
[19:42] <MrCraig> :-)
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[21:49] <jcoxon> hehe my temp sensor/ resistance heater is maintaining my ntx2 at 25 degs yet outside my window
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Congrats.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> now, the freezer!
[21:54] <jcoxon> pah had to retune
[21:54] <jcoxon> damn
[21:55] <jcoxon> but haven't actually implemented PID yet
[21:56] <fsphil> PID?
[21:56] <jcoxon> also need to add another temp sensor to compare to environment
[21:56] <jcoxon> PID controller
[21:56] <jcoxon> or pelvic inflamatory disease - your choice really
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[21:57] <jonsowman> ;\
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[21:59] <jonsowman> jcoxon: is it a full PID controller?
[21:59] <jonsowman> s/is it/will it be/
[22:00] <jcoxon> i was going to use the PID lib for arduino
[22:00] <jonsowman> didn't know there was one
[22:00] <jonsowman> unsurprising really I guess
[22:00] <jcoxon> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary
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[22:01] <jonsowman> nice
[22:01] <jonsowman> looks quite neat
[22:02] <jonsowman> "Unless you know what it's for, don't use D (D_Param=0)"
[22:02] <jonsowman> hehe
[22:02] <jcoxon> yeah not too sure about tuning it - still reading about that
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/maths
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> interesting
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> A brief history of mathematics.
[22:03] <jonsowman> start with Ki=Di=0, the adjust Pi until you get near what you want but with steady state error
[22:03] <jonsowman> then increase Pi until you eliminate that error in a reasonable time
[22:04] <jonsowman> you don't really need the differential term unless you really have to make sure it is critically damped, as it were
[22:04] <jonsowman> hence the instruction thing saying don't worry too much about Di
[22:04] <jcoxon> eek sounds complicated
[22:05] <jcoxon> certainly a job for another day
[22:05] <jonsowman> you're just trying to keep something at a constant temp?
[22:05] <jcoxon> yup
[22:05] <jcoxon> the ntx2 crystal
[22:05] <jonsowman> certainly possible with just the P term
[22:05] <jonsowman> so start with that (set I and D to 0)
[22:08] <jonsowman> and make sure it doesnt overshoot
[22:09] <jonsowman> you'll probably find that it gets closer and closer to the target temp but never quite reaches it (steady state error), which is what the integral term solves
[22:09] <jonsowman> so you say "i want 25C" from a start temp of 15C, and it gets to about 23-24C and stays there
[22:09] <jonsowman> I-term will stop that happening :)
[22:09] <jcoxon> thats no problem really
[22:10] <jcoxon> its not like we are aiming for a temp - more stability
[22:10] <jonsowman> also you won't have step changes in temp
[22:10] <jonsowman> so I'd bet that just a P-controller will do you fine :)
[22:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[22:13] <jcoxon> in someways just reducing the drift rate so that the afc can keep up will be an good thing
[22:13] <jonsowman> so set I_param and D_param to 0 and fiddle with P_param until you get a useful response from the control system
[22:16] <Randomskk> jonsowman: applying knowledge acquired in a lab? I'm pretty sure that's against the rules
[22:21] <jcoxon> thanks for the help jonsowman
[22:21] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:35] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/AXeaykP5
[22:35] <jonsowman> Randomskk: heh
[22:35] <Laurenceb> ^everything cc1020 nicely documented now
[22:35] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: nice, good stuff
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[22:36] <Laurenceb> most nicked from other peoples projects, but ive reorganised it and made it use avr registers/delay functions
[22:36] <Laurenceb> like here http://www.sics.se/~adam/contiki/docs-uipv6/a01899.html
[22:38] <Laurenceb> also http://svn.jonathanwagner.net/cape/CAPE1/Communications/Software/Code/trunk/libs/CC1020/
[22:39] <Laurenceb> but it appears to follow all the Ti guidelines to the letter
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:39] <Laurenceb> appears to = its so disorganised with little clauses in app notes etc i cant follow it all
[22:40] <Laurenceb> theres some example code from Ti for avr but its a mess
[22:40] <Laurenceb> the cape project is pretty cool
[22:41] <Laurenceb> Ax.25 with a cc1020, using a very small frequency shift
[22:41] <Laurenceb> oh yeah and its from a picosat XD
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[22:48] <Laurenceb> cya all
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 22 2010