highaltitude.log.20101020

[00:00] <robreg> theres like 5 billion different ways to do all of that
[00:02] <The-Compiler> Whiskey: take a look at the brilliant UKHAS wiki at http://ukhas.org.uk/
[00:02] <Whiskey> I can imagine. I'm only just getting started. can anyone point me in the right direction? This is all new to me.
[00:02] <The-Compiler> I also collected some projects and ressources at http://the-compiler.org/piccard/doku.php?id=links as I'm also planning to do my own balloon soonish
[00:04] <Whiskey> great thanks for the help guys. This will be a good start.
[00:05] <robreg> is it legal to sustain an aircraft at high altitudes is my question
[00:05] <The-Compiler> Have fun reading then :) And have a good night/day/whatever, as I'll go to bed
[00:05] <earthshine> not in the UK
[00:05] <The-Compiler> robreg: really depends on your country
[00:05] <robreg> US
[00:05] <robreg> so in the UK you're only allowed to send it up to burst?
[00:06] <earthshine> You'd have to check the FAA rules
[00:06] <robreg> no control systems etc
[00:06] <earthshine> UAVs are illegal in the UK
[00:06] <robreg> wow
[00:06] <earthshine> terrorism and all that
[00:06] <robreg> yeah of course... terrorism...
[00:07] <earthshine> though i doubt terrorists would obey such a rule
[00:07] <earthshine> but also due to safety
[00:07] <earthshine> a UAV that goes astray and comes down in a playing field full of school children would not go down too well
[00:08] <robreg> i know this idea is completely unoriginal but ive always been interested in an atmospheric radio repeater or maybe wifi access point
[00:08] <earthshine> thats illegal in the UK too
[00:08] <earthshine> not sure about US
[00:08] <Whiskey> I don't know if it will help answer your question or not but I did read somewhere about an exemption in the US --> RE: FAR-101 regulations
[00:08] <robreg> has anybody done it?
[00:08] <earthshine> it's been done in Oz
[00:08] <robreg> cool
[00:09] <earthshine> Speak to Juxta - he did it
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[00:11] <robreg> what about unmanned gliders? how high in the atmosphere do you get thermal winds?
[00:12] <robreg> hehe my heads really in the clouds now
[00:15] <robreg> wwell now my inquiry has reached th e cutting edge of science
[00:15] <robreg> http://repository.lib.ncsu.edu/ir/handle/1840.16/6353
[00:15] <robreg> guess im not going t o be going there any time soon
[00:15] <robreg> lol
[00:18] <kd0mto> http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-pranksters-rickroll-entire-earth/story-e6frfro0-1225941034483
[00:18] <kd0mto> high altitude awesomeness!
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[01:10] <juxta> hey robreg
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[01:58] <Darkside> juxta|console:
[01:58] <Darkside> i just got back from a tour of a tier 1 telstra exchange :D
[01:58] <Darkside> guess who took us (me and the 5 other people in my adv tele class) on the tour :D
[02:02] <SpeedEvil> Sir Tim Berners Lee
[02:02] <Darkside> lol
[02:02] <Darkside> no
[02:02] <SpeedEvil> 50 cent?
[02:02] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_0285-424x640.jpg
[02:02] <Darkside> the guy on the far right
[02:04] <robreg> hey juxta
[02:04] <robreg> alan turing?
[02:05] <juxta_> heh
[02:05] <juxta_> Grant :)
[02:05] <Darkside> hey juxta|console
[02:05] <Darkside> :D
[02:05] <Darkside> it was awesome
[02:05] <juxta_> going back to the workshop pc, brb
[02:05] <Darkside> got to see heaps of cool stuff
[02:05] <juxta|console> nice
[02:05] <juxta|console> hey robreg
[02:05] <robreg> that building has a lot of tambour doors
[02:05] <juxta|console> where abouts are you based?
[02:06] <robreg> tennessee
[02:06] <Darkside> juxta|console: i sooo wish i could come along on saturday :(
[02:06] <Darkside> the long chases are good fun
[02:06] <juxta|console> ahh well,next time :)
[02:06] <robreg> what was this project? low altitude satellite??
[02:07] <juxta|console> robreg: awesome - you're planning to fly a repeater too? :D
[02:07] <juxta|console> that was a balloon launch
[02:07] <robreg> not any time soon!
[02:07] <robreg> i was just curious if anyone had done it
[02:08] <juxta|console> hehe
[02:08] <Darkside> ^ has
[02:08] <juxta|console> yeah we flew asimplex parrot repeater a while ago
[02:08] <juxta|console> this weekend we're flying 2 repeaters on the one balloon, hehe
[02:08] <robreg> wow
[02:08] <robreg> congrats
[02:08] <juxta|console> I'm building the payload now Darkside, stopping this thing from overheating will be a challenge
[02:09] <robreg> overheating?
[02:09] <juxta|console> thanks robreg - we haven't done it yet, itmight all go horribly wrong :P
[02:09] <Darkside> juxta|console: heh
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[02:09] <juxta|console> the talk trhough repeater is going to get quite a workout, we figure at least 70% duty cycle
[02:10] <Darkside> yeah that'd be right
[02:10] <juxta|console> it's only 1W of TX power, but in a foam box with very thin air, cooling will be tricky
[02:10] <juxta|console> i have a copper tounge hanging out of the box,will upload a pic, 2 secs
[02:13] <juxta|console> excuse the woeful camera phone pic: http://imgur.com/PeHBv.jpg
[02:14] <juxta|console> that copper rounge and the copper slab it's soldered to are soldered to the TX transistors
[02:15] <juxta|console> rounge = tongue*
[02:15] <Darkside> heh
[02:15] <Darkside> cool
[02:15] <juxta|console> getting the thing in and out of the box is going to be tricky though
[02:15] <juxta|console> I'm going to have to fix it in there I think
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[02:18] <robreg> it may not be so bad? maybe water vapor will help it cool?
[02:20] <juxta|console> heh, we'll see
[02:20] <juxta|console> without airflow that tongue hits 60-80 degrees after transmitting for 15 minutes
[02:22] <juxta|console> i've got to solder some impossibly small coax to this thing
[02:23] <juxta|console> it's about 1mm diameter :(
[02:23] <natrium42> robreg, you mean evaporative cooling
[02:24] <robreg> yeah
[02:24] <juxta|console> heya natrium42
[02:24] <robreg> wwell
[02:24] <natrium42> hi juxta
[02:24] <robreg> sublimnation cooling?
[02:24] <robreg> all the water is frozen up there?
[02:24] <robreg> or no?
[02:24] <juxta|console> the air up there is quite dry, very low humidity
[02:24] <natrium42> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=boiling+temperature+at+20km
[02:25] <natrium42> 35C at 20km
[02:25] <natrium42> might be worth a try :D
[02:25] <robreg> howt he f*** did they think to add that to a search engine
[02:26] <natrium42> when water turns into vapour it takes more energy with it than was needed
[02:26] <juxta|console> heh, boiling temp is 0 degrees at 35km :)
[02:26] <natrium42> so it can be used to cool
[02:26] <juxta|console> yeah, thats a good idea
[02:26] <juxta|console> however it's a bit late in the game to be adding phase change cooling systems,launch is in 3 days :(
[02:27] <natrium42> yeah, maybe the copper thing will work ok
[02:27] <juxta|console> natrium42: the tracker is going to get an extra big workout this weekend I fear
[02:27] <natrium42> haha
[02:27] <natrium42> bring it on
[02:27] <juxta|console> haha
[02:27] <juxta|console> 4 hour flight + lots of listening stations
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[02:27] <Darkside> oh yeah, i need to try out 600 baud RTTY today
[02:27] <natrium42> cool
[02:28] <juxta|console> I'll be attaching copper tape to the copper tongue too, wrapping it around the box to increase surface area
[02:28] <natrium42> Darkside, going for picture transmission?
[02:28] <Darkside> natrium42: nah
[02:28] <Darkside> i mean, its an option
[02:28] <Darkside> but its not my aim
[02:28] <natrium42> k
[02:28] <juxta|console> Darkside's payload has become too fat and heavy to fly
[02:28] <Darkside> i'd try for 1200 baud if i was going to do that
[02:28] <Darkside> hehe
[02:28] <Darkside> juxta|console: i'll be able to trim it down a lot i think
[02:28] <natrium42> it's just big boned :(
[02:28] <juxta|console> it's adopted an unhealthy lifestyle of largish amps
[02:29] <Darkside> probblem is the class E amp is radiating a lot of crap atm
[02:29] <Darkside> it would need some kind of RF shielding
[02:29] <robreg> do you think you could operate a wifi access point up there? with a very high gain antenna on the ground?
[02:29] <juxta|console> i have a good solution for that Darkside - 50m of string between your payload and anything else :P
[02:29] <Darkside> pffff
[02:29] <Darkside> doable :D
[02:30] <juxta|console> robreg: sure, but the path loss at 2.4ghz would be very high, you would have a hard job keeping good alignment of your antennas
[02:30] <juxta|console> (directional antennas that is)
[02:30] <Darkside> anyway, i'm planning on doing the amp using some very small FETs, so i should be able to get the size waaaaay down
[02:31] <robreg> why high path loss?
[02:31] <Darkside> juxta|console: also if i'm using a 2W amp, i'll probably have it on a lower duty cycle
[02:31] <Darkside> and actually turn the whole thing off when no data is being sent
[02:33] <Darkside> i should just be able to use a chunky FET to do that
[02:33] <juxta|console> robreg: free space path loss is proportional to frequency
[02:33] <robreg> you'd have amazing line of sight
[02:33] <natrium42> it's not chunky, it's just big boned :(
[02:33] <robreg> oh
[02:34] <pschulz02> juxta|console: Greetings :-)
[02:34] <juxta|console> hey pschulz02 :)
[02:35] <juxta|console> will you be about by chance this weekend?
[02:35] <pschulz02> Good to hear about the recovery of the last Horus :-)
[02:35] <pschulz02> juxta|console: I'll be calling in for the Field Day.
[02:36] <robreg> satellite use micrwaves ? 10GHZ +
[02:36] <juxta|console> yeah
[02:36] <pschulz02> I'm in th eprocess of purchasing a HF rig.. so I'll be more useful (re. telemetry) shortly.
[02:36] <juxta|console> oh nice work :)
[02:37] <robreg> are there signal polarization concerns at 30000 meters
[02:37] <robreg> i know satellite use helical antenna
[02:37] <juxta|console> robreg: nah, it's not really an issue
[02:38] <robreg> the biggest issue i see is a control problem
[02:38] <pschulz02> juxta|console: i notices that one of the HF wips was set at an angle to the vertical.. in your photos.
[02:38] <juxta|console> in regards to sats, keep in mind that very high gain parabolic dishes are used
[02:38] <juxta|console> pschulz02: that swings aside to open the boot ;)
[02:38] <pschulz02> juxta|console: I would say that weight is also an issue..
[02:39] <juxta|console> ok - I better get back to work here, back shortly all
[02:39] <pschulz02> juxta|console: for dishes
[02:39] <pschulz02> cheers.
[02:39] <robreg> thansk for talking good luck
[02:39] <pschulz02> robreg: Where are you?
[02:39] <robreg> Tennessee
[02:41] <robreg> where are you
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[02:50] <juxta|console> ugh these antennas areimpossibly hard to tune
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[05:35] <kd0mto> Attention everyone, our zero-preassure flight mission timer count down. http://sites.google.com/site/ssclisu/habet/lxe-124-a
[05:35] <kd0mto> *pressure
[05:51] <Darkside> cool
[05:54] <kd0mto> Not really... this launch means building a balloon, building a PSK modem from scratch for a bi-direction link on the balloon, new flight prediction software, new antennas....
[05:54] <kd0mto> Plus doing this while school is going on.
[05:54] <kd0mto> Yeah... we're busy.
[05:58] <Darkside> why psk?
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[06:08] <kd0mto> We're using PSK as a back up transmitter and primarily for our uplink. Reasons for PSK are because 1) it can work in a narrow band because we'll be on 20m (maybe 40m) 2) it's low power 3) we need the range of HF because we're looking at about 300 mile range.
[06:08] <kd0mto> Or 482 Km.
[06:08] <kd0mto> *km.
[06:08] <kd0mto> Unless you have a better idea Darkside
[06:09] <juxta_> we use UHF with very low power over that sort of range :)
[06:09] <Darkside> kd0mto: i used 40mW of 300 baud RTTY
[06:09] <Darkside> and it was heard a few hundred km away easily
[06:09] <Darkside> and that was on 40m
[06:10] <Darkside> once it gets up in the air, you have line of sight, and things just work :P
[06:11] <juxta_> psk is pretty awesome though, very narror
[06:11] <kd0mto> RTTY is dicussed, and or engineering lead loves PSK so... PSK it is.
[06:11] <juxta_> narrow even
[06:11] <juxta_> a bit hard to generate on the transmit modules we use though
[06:11] <juxta_> well, not really doable
[06:12] <kd0mto> We're going to try an not piss off Ham's because we'll be doing some transmissions in the gray zone in the atmosphere. We should make a world wide transmission then.
[06:12] <Darkside> juxta_: i can do it on mine :P
[06:12] <juxta_> heh
[06:12] <Darkside> i can do QPSK on mine..
[06:12] <Darkside> the final board will support that
[06:13] <juxta_> yeah but not our $20 UHF transmitters :)
[06:13] <Darkside> hehe no
[06:13] <kd0mto> Our total cost for the PSK modem in the air is $70.
[06:14] <kd0mto> All built in house.
[06:14] <Darkside> heh
[06:19] <shenki> juxta_: hey
[06:19] <shenki> juxta_: i should have myself a radio by saturday that will let me recieve the horus telemetry
[06:19] <shenki> juxta_: i was wondering if you could email me the details
[06:20] <juxta_> ahh ding ding ding ding
[06:20] <juxta_> who is highlighting me? ;p
[06:20] Action: shenki looks around
[06:20] <juxta_> shenki, sure
[06:20] <juxta_> pm me your email ;)
[06:21] <shenki> ok
[06:21] <Darkside> shenki: what radio?
[06:21] <Darkside> im getting one in the mail soon from my dad :P
[06:22] <shenki> Darkside: a friend was donated one for some work he's doing
[06:22] <Darkside> oh cool
[06:22] <shenki> Darkside: the codec2 work
[06:22] <Darkside> so it does USB at 434MHz?
[06:22] <Darkside> and what model is it?
[06:22] <shenki> yes, and nfi
[06:23] <Darkside> heh
[06:23] <juxta_> shenki, you're working on Codec 2?
[06:23] <shenki> juxta_: i hope to help out with some of the embedded side of things once uni is done with
[06:23] <juxta_> awesome!
[06:23] <shenki> currently my help extends to publicity and doing listening tests :)
[06:24] <juxta_> i remember I checked it out a little while ago in comparison to MELP, it was pretty close :)
[06:24] <shenki> yeah, david brought it around one day and we did listening tets against g729, gsm, and one other one i forget
[06:25] <shenki> s/tets/tests/
[06:25] <shenki> i was impressed
[06:25] <shenki> i'm big on open hardware - i did a talk on behalf of david and the chinese company who manufacture his routers at linux.conf.au in wellington last year
[06:25] <juxta_> what OS will you be using shenki?
[06:25] <shenki> juxta_: linux
[06:26] <juxta_> yeah I guessed, but distro?
[06:26] <shenki> ubuntu 10.10
[06:26] <juxta_> I think there are build scripts for maybe deb/ubuntu
[06:26] <shenki> is this dl-fldigi?
[06:26] <juxta_> yeah
[06:26] <shenki> i built that yesterday when helping mark debug his build
[06:26] <Darkside> it was easy to get working shenki
[06:26] <shenki> it appears to work fine
[06:26] <Darkside> :P
[06:26] <juxta_> oh nice :P
[06:26] <Darkside> juxta_: you still dont have a HF antenna yet, do you
[06:27] <juxta_> neg
[06:27] <Darkside> i was goign to rig up a HF dipole out the window of uni :P
[06:27] <juxta_> havent got around to that yet, haha
[06:27] <Darkside> well, out the window of a building here
[06:27] <shenki> Darkside: is this to recieve the telemetry?
[06:27] <Darkside> shenki: for me to do some higher power testing
[06:27] <shenki> ah, ok
[06:27] <shenki> Darkside: go up to the patio on level 5 of innova
[06:28] <Darkside> mmmmmrgh
[06:28] <Darkside> big metal building..
[06:28] <juxta_> I sent you a link the the guide shenki
[06:29] <shenki> juxta_: cheers
[06:29] <juxta_> it has lots of big arrows and pictures for hams who are not familiar with computers to follow
[06:29] <juxta_> so I think you'll manage just fine
[06:29] <shenki> Darkside: it's mostly glass and concrete
[06:29] <juxta_> :)
[06:29] <shenki> juxta_: thanks! i'm looking forward to it
[06:29] <shenki> i hear the expected landing site is across the border
[06:29] <juxta_> will shoot you my mobile number too
[06:30] <juxta_> nah
[06:30] <juxta_> it's come back a bit
[06:30] <juxta_> 2 secs
[06:30] <shenki> thats good
[06:30] <shenki> juxta_: ive got tyour number from last weekend still
[06:30] <juxta_> oh, great
[06:31] <juxta_> shenki: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=73a1b046cd4145cb05864bb0199f22cff6d137af
[06:31] <juxta_> hopefully it doesnt end up in Billatt, hehe
[06:32] <juxta_> other than that, it's a good area around there
[06:32] <Darkside> whats at billatt?
[06:32] <Darkside> oh, conservation park
[06:32] <shenki> Darkside: turn on hybrid mode
[06:32] <shenki> :)
[06:32] <juxta_> scrub
[06:32] <juxta_> lots of scrub
[06:33] <Darkside> lol
[06:45] <shenki> ah, USB == upper side band
[06:46] <shenki> it all makes sense now
[06:47] <Darkside> yes
[06:47] <Darkside> oh dear
[06:47] <Darkside> you got a usb controlled scanner?
[06:47] <Darkside> lol
[06:55] <shenki> well, i quickly realised that it didn't mean universal serial bus
[06:55] <shenki> but i wasn't sure what it did mean
[06:59] <Darkside> :P
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[09:20] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf
[09:20] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[10:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron <phil@sanslogic.co.uk> "Re: New Project"
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[11:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Davejay <info@davejay.co.uk> "Re: New Project"
[11:23] <juxta_> ping Darkside
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[12:07] <Darkside> juxta_: pong
[12:07] <juxta_> hey
[12:08] <juxta_> am just about to go to bed, i'm exhuasted
[12:08] <juxta_> but I have a pic of the payloads
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> I am about to get up. I'm exhausted.
[12:08] <Darkside> juxta_: cool
[12:09] <juxta_> haha, isn't it afternoon already SpeedEvil?
[12:09] <juxta_> Darkside, emailed it to you
[12:09] <Darkside> oh ok
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> I cut 40m of hedges yesterday.
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> 1PM
[12:09] <juxta_> heh
[12:10] <juxta_> fair enough then :)
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> I want a rocket propelled flying wing with a sharp leading edge.
[12:10] <Darkside> i thought a sharp leading edge was bad for the aerodynamics
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> With enough power, that doesn't matter.
[12:11] <Darkside> lol
[12:11] <juxta_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oceC9DzDLlE
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Hedgetriming at mach 1 would be so muchmore fun.
[12:11] <Darkside> juxta_: who is rfhead >_>
[12:11] <Darkside> also nice job with the repeaters
[12:11] <Darkside> nice shielding :P
[12:12] <juxta_> well, 'shielding'
[12:12] <Darkside> wheres teh copper tounge?
[12:12] <juxta_> from light perhaps
[12:12] <juxta_> it's folded over, there are copper straps running around the sides and back of the larger payload
[12:12] <Darkside> oh ok
[12:12] <juxta_> didn't want it hanging out and getting tangled
[12:13] <juxta_> rfhead is adrian btw
[12:13] <Darkside> heh
[12:15] <Darkside> anyway, this yupiteru should be a good radio
[12:15] <Darkside> my dads been very happy with it for.... over 10 years now :P
[12:15] <juxta_> excellent
[12:15] <Darkside> he bought it in 1997
[12:15] <juxta_> well - sleep for me now
[12:16] <Darkside> it has some minor problems, but it still works mainly
[12:16] <Darkside> memory dissapears...
[12:16] <juxta_> too tired, fell asleep on the couch just now
[12:16] <Darkside> lol
[12:16] <Darkside> go to bed
[12:16] <juxta_> i am - night ;p
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[12:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Si <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New Project"
[12:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Davejay <info@davejay.co.uk> "Re: New Project"
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[13:04] <Laurenceb_> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sparta
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> thts is ..
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[14:13] <Laurenceb_> http://www.nebula-aerospace.com/news/articles/horizon.asp
[14:13] <Laurenceb_> obviously
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[14:35] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders if he should be sectioned
[14:35] <Laurenceb_> - nebula guy
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[14:48] <SpeedEvil> But it has to be real.
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> He knows the word asymptotic.
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> Also - centrifugal jet engines were ditched 60? years ago.
[14:49] <SAIDias> another question
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> ...
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Is that meant - seriously - to be an n-prize entrant for under 999 pounds?
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> i think so
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> he started off ok and then lost it
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> Well - there is abmition, and there is madness that barks like a seal on crack-filled-kippers.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm going for the latter option.
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> one day ill do a writeup of my nprize design
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> some time after the time period has expired probably :P
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> iirc i came up with some creative accounting where the cost was £340
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> but it involved reusing a balloon spinup launcher system, and the rules say youd have to do two launches from it to demonstrate reusability
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> so F&*& that
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> What was the paylaod?
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> 10grams
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> lipo + chipcon with inbuilt 8051 and a 86mhz chip ant
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> also controlled the rocket
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> *868mhz
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[15:05] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at postmen.
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> where controlled the rocket = fired second stage igniter and operate resistor cutter to seperate the sat
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Card through door, absolutely no knock.
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> better than USP
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[15:05] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's a keyboard.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> compact PC one with trackpoint.
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> ebay++
[15:06] <Laurenceb_> 'this is charge on delivery, i have to leave in 8 seconds no i cant give change no i dont have a chip and pin machine'
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[15:06] <Laurenceb_> 'i need the exact money, you nowhave 4 seconds'
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> *runs away*
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> im not using UPS again
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2010/06/02/the_genius_of_the_lego_printer/
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> seen it
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:08] <Laurenceb_> the team promethius n-prize team have made a hab spin launcher thats alkmost the same as what id designed
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> but aluminium instead of CF tube
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> the nice thing is that its gyroscopically stable once spun up, and you can can control aximuth by throttling the motor slightly, and set elevation with rigging before launch
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's a relatively simple weight
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> deisgn
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> but they dont seam to have realised any of that :P
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> Lots of the time you can swap maths and assumptions for actual control.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes this doesn't work so well. :)
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> afk - cooking. Wave.
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> cya
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[15:34] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[17:47] <m1x10> I have just burned the pcb of my jpeg cam while trying to solder 2 stupid <2mm-spaced pinholes :(
[17:51] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/119428
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[18:04] <fsphil> still working?
[18:05] <m1x10> nop
[18:09] <fsphil> test for a short, its possible there might be some solder bridging two of the pins
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[18:29] <SpeedEvil> :/
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[18:48] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:49] <MrCraig> hey Lb
[18:49] <Laurenceb> finally got ubuntu booting without errors - must be a world first
[18:50] <MrCraig> nah, I've done that before - but not on this laptop, last time on this laptop was a pain in the a** and I can't believe I'm planning to do it again. I'm backing up right now.
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[18:52] <MrCraig> I don't suppose anyone has a freebie solution for resizing windows 7 partitions? My laptop comes with something akin to a ghost image for restore and no windows install disk, I'd like dual boot but PQMagic 8 won't resize a windows 7 part, so it's now out of date and I'm not buying new.
[18:54] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/119440, http://imagebin.org/119441, http://imagebin.org/119442 <-- mixio in army (first month)
[18:55] <m1x10> lol
[18:55] <m1x10> wrong chat!
[18:55] <Laurenceb> omg thats my laptop
[18:55] <Laurenceb> is that... ubuntu?
[18:55] <MrCraig> well whoever the recipient is - I hope she's impressed and finds you cute (or he even)
[18:56] <m1x10> lol
[18:56] <m1x10> it was going to other channel !
[18:56] <Laurenceb> military service?
[18:56] <Laurenceb> where are you?
[18:56] <m1x10> dunno why mirc was here
[18:56] <m1x10> yes
[18:56] <m1x10> GR
[18:56] <Laurenceb> ah, didnt know they had it
[18:56] <m1x10> :p
[18:57] <Laurenceb> so it looks like in the army you spend your time chatting online
[18:57] <m1x10> im not in army now lol
[18:57] <Laurenceb> i meant from the photos :P
[18:57] <MrCraig> and what do you suppose irc was originally invented for? :)
[18:57] <Laurenceb> hah yes
[18:57] Action: Laurenceb calls in an air strike
[18:58] <MrCraig> lol I think they used irc to decide who was going to win by playing online tic tac toe first.
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[19:14] <Laurenceb> is there a good application for editing sound files in linux?
[19:14] <Laurenceb> resampling etc?
[19:14] <MrCraig> isn't audacity available for linux?
[19:15] <fsphil> it is
[19:15] <fsphil> there's also sox on the command line, for simple resampling
[19:15] <Laurenceb> oh of course
[19:15] <Laurenceb> audacity
[19:16] <Laurenceb> interesting, wonder if i could use sox on a stream
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[19:23] Action: m1x10 says: backup recovery module alkaline battery duration test: 3 hrs and keep running.
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:49] <MrCraig> hi
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> how's life around here?
[19:50] <MrCraig> caffine based over here. Ya need caffine to watch progress bars, but I still have some milage left in my mythbusters marathon to take the pain out.
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> I also got my cola here and tomorrow at uni it's gonna be coffee again
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[19:53] <MrCraig> Ahh - I have work in the morning, but I've concocted an experiment with that too. What I've done is, went to work wide awake last week as a control, and this week I'm running on an hour less sleep each night, to see if I can still perform well enough to not get fired. I'll continue reducing an hour a night each week until I get a formal warning.
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[19:55] <MrCraig> ok - I'm about to download a file, which means very likely my home hub will crash, this may be a brb.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:57] <MrCraig> looks like I might get away with it :)
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:24] <fsphil> hmm.. one of my freeview boxes apparently had a hidden rf modulator, the last update turned it on and now it's interfering with some channels
[20:25] <MrCraig> annoying
[20:25] <fsphil> wouldn't be so bad if I could at least turn it off or change the channel
[20:26] <fsphil> wonder why it was hidden though
[20:26] <MrCraig> you have the exact opposite problem to me - my box has no rf modulator, and as my tv has no scart I have to run it through an old vbox... but I rarely turn it on anyhow
[20:27] <MrCraig> I bought it to keep mum happy when she visited - without eastenders she'd chew the walls
[20:28] <fsphil> have you still got analogue in your area?
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[20:29] <MrCraig> I've no idea for sure but I think so yes, because I get some channels through the RF feed-through
[20:30] <MrCraig> I don't watch too much tv really - if I do it's iplayer or bought as box set typically
[20:30] <m1x10> fsphil: sorry just sew it.
[20:31] <m1x10> dunno if its short
[20:31] <m1x10> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello m1x10
[20:47] <m1x10> whats up u punk?
[20:47] <m1x10> :p
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[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> I got no electrician
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> that is really crappy
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[21:26] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/d0Dfn.png
[21:26] <Laurenceb> its working XD
[21:27] <Laurenceb> cc1020 -> fldigi with all the correct timing etc
[21:27] <Laurenceb> unfortunately my ntx2 transmits my contact details by default hence black lines
[21:29] <Laurenceb> you can see UKHAS.ORG at the beginning - the ntx2 is being power cycled so theres a lot of frequency squew - mfsk64 doesnt like that
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> why did you black parts of it out?
[21:29] <Randomskk> sweet
[21:29] <Laurenceb> it chucks out my contact details - its a module off a hab
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:30] <Laurenceb> on the off chance it was lost and some hams heard it
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah it's better to black that out :)
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:30] <Laurenceb> if theres no incoming data it chucks out my details every few seconds
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> as an emergency mode?
[21:31] <Laurenceb> i need to setup a proper test - but i need it on a completely seperate power supply - so theres no rf through the leads
[21:36] <Laurenceb> ntx2 module + a micro to chuck serial into it
[21:36] <Laurenceb> or maybe just reflash the ntx2
[21:38] <Laurenceb> theres still alot of work to be done to make this work well and nicely
[21:39] <Laurenceb> but i think all the seperate elements of the chipcon SDR idea have been shown to be workable now, so its just a matter of doing a board and wirting non dodgey code
[21:40] <Randomskk> seems very nice
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[21:48] <Laurenceb> not sure about sensitivity - it compares well to my icom scanner
[21:48] <Laurenceb> but at these signal levels front end noise isnt dominant
[21:49] <Laurenceb> no idea of the signal level - the nxt2 module is about 4m away and ive removed both antenni
[21:51] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/Q46gN.png waterfall generated with the same setup, S/N is clearly huge
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[21:54] <Laurenceb> wonder how hard a scrolling waterfall would be in python
[21:55] <Randomskk> probably not that hard
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[21:55] <Randomskk> there is pygtk and other libraries that give you a cross platform gui canvas
[21:55] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:56] <Laurenceb> now i need to clock sync a bunch of chipcons for a phased array :)
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[22:06] <Randomskk> that would be very cool
[22:08] <Laurenceb> ive got 2 breakouts - but they are silly money from Ti
[22:08] <Randomskk> make your own I guess
[22:08] <Laurenceb> we need our own yeah
[22:08] <Randomskk> hmm this is a bit sad. I'm trying to fit some y=f(x,y)
[22:08] <Randomskk> my program does clever alogithmic stuff
[22:08] <Randomskk> it has some very complicated expressions which are okay
[22:08] <Randomskk> but the best fit so far is y=3.32x
[22:09] <Randomskk> i.e. no correlation to y, and just the simplest linear relationship to x
[22:09] <Randomskk> this isn't exactly what I expected but there we go
[22:10] <Laurenceb> im going to do usb dongle with atmega8u2 tho i think, rather than a basic breakout
[22:10] <Laurenceb> heh
[22:11] <Laurenceb> cc1020 isnt the nicest thing to solder :S
[22:14] <Laurenceb> audacity is pretty useful - can plot autocorellation, fft etc
[22:14] <Randomskk> neat
[22:15] <Laurenceb> data to wav python script +audacity and its a neat little data analyser
[22:16] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/MCdTRkqS
[22:17] <Laurenceb> thats something i hacked together - it could be done properly to chuck columns into seperate channels etc
[22:18] <Laurenceb> im quite liking .wav as a binary datalogging format
[22:23] <Laurenceb> http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus32.html < looks useful
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[22:33] <SpeedEvil> I assume that's interesting as it does USB2 high speed?
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> The RAM is too small for effective buffering isn't it?
[22:35] <Laurenceb> its does usb2
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Will it actually stream with that little RAM though at high speed?
[22:41] <Laurenceb> hmm it as endpoints with DPRAM
[22:41] <Laurenceb> 64 byte buffers
[22:44] <Laurenceb> cant see why not
[22:44] <Laurenceb> the bottleneck is the spi
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> What is the rate at which the USB2 pipe empties the buffers?
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> It's not continuous.
[22:45] <Randomskk> SPI is the bottleneck?
[22:45] <Randomskk> SPI can go silly fast
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> A microframe is - IIRC - 8KHz.
[22:46] <Laurenceb> cc is limite t 20mhz
[22:46] <Laurenceb> *10mhz
[22:47] <Laurenceb> enough for 150khz bandwidth
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> If you haver 64 bytes of buffer, I think that limits it to 64*8khz
[22:48] <Laurenceb> enough then
[22:48] <Laurenceb> but that sucks slightly
[22:48] <Laurenceb> tbh im not familiar with usb
[22:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/ums_6.htm
[22:53] <Laurenceb> oh its full not high speed
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:53] <Laurenceb> so yeah 64x5K
[22:53] <Laurenceb> so yeah 64x8K
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/FT2232H.htm - I wonder about
[22:54] <Laurenceb> oh hang on
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> *1k - if it's usb1.1
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> I think
[22:54] <Laurenceb> full spedd doesnt allow microframes
[22:54] <Laurenceb> this sucks
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> I dunno ifthat can do SPI at speed
[22:56] <Laurenceb> itd need a micro - the clock neds to be sinced with the chipcon for register sampling
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[23:04] <Laurenceb> if im reading this right the 1khz sync thing doesnt apply to bulk
[23:05] <Laurenceb> The 1 ms frame rate in full speed / low speed USB, is used for a number of purposes, such as scheduling access to the bus, and as a timing reference for interrupt and isochronous transfers.
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[23:34] <Laurenceb> http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/rawhid.html
[23:34] <Laurenceb> looks simpler than LUFA
[23:34] <Laurenceb> and 64kBytes/sec throughput is fast enough
[23:34] <Laurenceb> anyway, -> zzz
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 21 2010