highaltitude.log.20101017

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[00:10] <Darkside> morning juxta
[00:11] <juxta> morning :)
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[01:11] <natrium42> if you only knew... the POWER... of the Darkside
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[01:14] <Darkside> never underestimate it
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[02:15] <ws2222> ive given up trying to simulate a scramjet
[02:28] <kd0fxp> that's too bad
[02:41] <juxta> ping natrium42
[03:47] <ws2222> wow, lots of traffic in here
[03:49] <juxta> shenki, amboar - looking like a launch next weekend :)
[03:49] <shenki> juxta: cool
[03:50] <shenki> juxta: no way i'll be able to make it unfortunately
[03:50] <juxta> will be rather busy building the payloads next week, hehe
[03:50] <juxta> no worries :)
[03:50] <shenki> uni is reaching it's peak chaos levels over this fortnight
[03:50] <juxta> we'll have a talk through repeater onboard this time
[03:50] <shenki> cool
[03:51] <shenki> does one need a licence to recieve the telemetry?
[03:51] <ws2222> is that a balloon ?
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[04:18] <Darkside> shenki: no
[04:18] <Darkside> you can listen
[04:18] <Darkside> i'll be up at gawler, but i should be able to hear it
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[04:23] <shenki> cool. i'll have to get a hold of a radio so i can decode it here
[04:24] <shenki> Darkside: reckon i'll be able to recieve it?
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[04:26] <Darkside> shenki: if you can receive on the right frequency
[04:26] <Darkside> you'll be able to hear the output of the repeater for sure
[04:26] <Darkside> telemetry will be a bit harder, as you'll need a receiever that can do single sideband on UHF
[04:28] <shenki> Darkside: yeah, that's why i'd need to get hold of a radio. i reckon karl or kim or drowe would have one.
[04:29] <Darkside> SSB on UHF is hard to come by
[04:29] <Darkside> i can lend you a radio for receiving the repeater tho
[04:29] <shenki> i see
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[04:30] <Darkside> welcome back juxta
[04:31] <juxta> hey Darkside
[04:31] <juxta> my breakers tripped for some reason :S
[04:31] <Darkside> damn
[04:34] <juxta> whoa, a cannon was just fired at fort glanville just down the road from me
[04:34] <shenki> invasion! man the battlements!
[04:34] <juxta> it was incredibly loud, all my windows shook, i thought someone had blown something up in the street
[04:35] <Darkside> abandon ship! all women and children to the lifepods!
[04:35] <Darkside> close the three ring circus!
[04:38] <juxta> they're letting of loads now
[04:38] <juxta> gunfire too
[04:38] <juxta> off*
[04:38] <Darkside> lol
[04:38] <Darkside> awesome
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[08:24] <jcoxon> morning
[08:25] <Darkside> hai
[08:25] <jcoxon> hey Dark
[08:25] <jcoxon> Darkside,
[08:26] <rjharrison_> bad morning
[08:26] <jcoxon> rjharrison_, eek
[08:26] <m1x10> hi all
[08:26] <rjharrison_> Just woke up to finde the house burgeld and car mising
[08:26] <m1x10> oh
[08:26] <jcoxon> oh no
[08:26] <rjharrison_> bollox
[08:26] <jcoxon> not good
[08:27] <rjharrison_> def. ! good
[08:27] <m1x10> will you go to the police
[08:27] <m1x10> ?
[08:27] <rjharrison_> Yep
[08:27] <rjharrison_> Just on hold atm
[08:28] <rjharrison_> Typical still on hold
[08:29] <m1x10> pfff
[08:29] <juxta|console> hey rjharrison_, jcoxon
[08:29] <juxta|console> rjharrison_: that's terrible :(
[08:29] <rjharrison_> The good nes is that my hab stuff is in the house
[08:30] <m1x10> man...you car...
[08:30] <jcoxon> juxta|console, radiometrix finally have got back to me
[08:30] <jcoxon> will ship to me on monday
[08:30] <rjharrison_> Oh cool
[08:30] <juxta|console> oh great jcoxon
[08:30] <rjharrison_> I'm meeting shaun from radiometrix in germany he is going to be there with Farnel
[08:31] <juxta|console> i actually sent them an email to see if they could give me some pricing on RX modules, haven't heard back yet
[08:31] <jcoxon> so i've ordered 5x .075 10mW and 2x .075 25mW
[08:31] <juxta|console> oh brilliant, thanks!
[08:32] <Darkside> WOAH farnells price is SHIT
[08:32] <rjharrison_> yep
[08:32] <jcoxon> so just want the 2x.075
[08:32] <rjharrison_> that is the farnel story all over
[08:32] <juxta|console> that sounds good jcoxon
[08:32] <rjharrison_> add 50%
[08:32] <Darkside> see this is why you should all use HF :P
[08:32] <Darkside> ahh wait, UK people...
[08:32] <Darkside> damn UK
[08:32] <juxta|console> rjharrison_: what happened with the break in? while you were sleeping? :|
[08:32] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5087020098/
[08:33] <rjharrison_> Yep I guess between 12 and 8 though probably 4 pm
[08:33] <rjharrison_> Will be buying CCTV
[08:33] <rjharrison_> Nice one jcoxon
[08:34] <jcoxon> also have got my temp sensor + resistor heater working
[08:34] <jcoxon> just need some more radios
[08:34] <jcoxon> and then some tighter control code to keep the crystal stable
[08:35] <juxta|console> that's awful rjharrison_, sorry to hear that
[08:35] <juxta|console> jcoxon: i'm thinking of doing similar - resistors to keep the module at a constant temp to stop the drift
[08:36] <juxta|console> planning on doing on an RX module too - i'm wanting to build a totally radio cutdown system that can be triggered from the ground
[08:36] <juxta|console> i'm thinking just an NRX2 or similar, AF output to a DTMF decoder, then controlling the cutdown
[08:36] <jcoxon> juxta|console, cool, i'm worried that if i don't get a tight enough control loop then actually it'll be detrimental
[08:37] <juxta|console> yeah
[08:37] <jcoxon> as it'll vary the freq
[08:37] <jcoxon> might make it quite a large thermal mass
[08:37] <jcoxon> so that its spread out a bit
[08:37] <juxta|console> if you do it on a PWM pin then you'll have control over the level of heating
[08:37] <jcoxon> basically its a transistor + 2 resistors
[08:38] <jcoxon> was just about to say that
[08:38] <jcoxon> i could vary the duty cycle
[08:38] <juxta|console> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_control ;p
[08:39] <Darkside> ahhhhhhhhh
[08:39] <Darkside> yay PID
[08:40] <jcoxon> is it wrong if i use the arduino PID library...
[08:40] <Darkside> hahahahha
[08:40] <Darkside> as long as you understand how it works
[08:40] <juxta|console> nothing wrong with that if you do it right :)
[08:41] <jcoxon> i understand the theory
[08:41] <jcoxon> :-p
[08:41] Action: jcoxon is well smart
[08:42] <juxta|console> medicine is reserved for the dummies here
[08:42] <jcoxon> thanls
[08:42] <jcoxon> thanks*
[08:43] <juxta|console> :P
[08:43] <juxta|console> i think med is actually the most difficult field to get into here, bar none
[08:43] <juxta|console> I imagine it's probably the same in the UK
[08:44] <jcoxon> it wasn't easy...
[08:45] <juxta|console> hey jcoxon, i realised you can tune the shift on the NTX2 a bit, there's a pot that adjusts the deviation
[08:45] <Darkside> damn you all and your UHF telemetry...
[08:45] <Darkside> :P
[08:46] <juxta|console> discovered that after cleaning the one that went in the ocean
[08:46] <jcoxon> juxta|console, yeah i saw that
[08:46] <Darkside> at least the antennas are small..
[08:46] <jcoxon> will help a lot
[08:46] <jcoxon> Darkside, hehe
[08:46] <jcoxon> (i saw it on the wiki that is)
[08:46] <juxta|console> yeah, none of this 20m business Darkside
[08:46] <juxta|console> damn your eagle eyes
[08:47] <Darkside> lol
[08:47] <Darkside> hey, it was awesome
[08:47] <jcoxon> might launch next week
[08:47] <juxta|console> oh nice jcoxon - flying what?
[08:47] <jcoxon> 26/27/28
[08:47] <jcoxon> i'll fly my new board
[08:47] <jcoxon> probably a floater
[08:47] <jcoxon> depends if people are around
[08:47] <jcoxon> and the weather is sensible
[08:48] <juxta|console> i think we're flying on the 23rd too
[08:48] <jcoxon> in preparation for our Iceland->Scotland attempt
[08:48] <juxta|console> :D
[08:49] <juxta|console> rjharrison_: any luck getting through?
[08:50] <jcoxon> hmmm with a PID loop - i get the theory - however tuning it will be hard
[08:50] <jcoxon> especially as the environment is a challenge to sinulate
[08:51] <jcoxon> simulate
[08:52] <juxta|console> the important thing will be the thermal mass of what you're heating I'd say
[08:53] <juxta|console> ie the ntx2
[08:53] <jcoxon> its more the crystal
[08:53] <jcoxon> the resistors+temp sensor are underneath flush with the crystal
[08:53] <juxta|console> oh, are you heating the crystal on the ntx2 directly?
[08:53] <juxta|console> ahh
[08:53] <juxta|console> the other components of the ntx2 probably have a temp profile too
[08:54] <juxta|console> I was planning on heating the can itself
[08:54] <juxta|console> as I noticed even a warm finger against the can will heat things enough to detect a shift
[08:56] <jcoxon> eek
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[09:01] <jcoxon> hehe my medicine brain just kicked in... PID stands for Pelvic Inflamatory disease
[09:04] <juxta|console> i dont like maths, but that sounds worse
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[09:37] <juxta|console> hey Darkside
[09:37] <juxta|console> your DF skills got the thumbs up from Adrian :)
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[10:09] <Darkside> juxta|console: pff df skills..
[10:09] <Darkside> i did hardly any DFing
[10:26] <juxta|console> well, in general then ;p
[10:27] <Darkside> heh
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[11:48] <juxta|console> has anybody compiled the CUSF predictor binary to run under windows? (*gasp*)
[11:50] <Randomskk> theoretically it should work
[11:50] <Randomskk> but I haven't seen it done
[12:10] <Laurenceb> heh windoze
[12:10] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[12:11] <fsphil> hullo m1x10
[12:11] <m1x10> hello fsphil
[12:12] <m1x10> do you know the entropy data bytes?
[12:12] <m1x10> after the FF FE marker
[12:12] <m1x10> which is the start of comment field
[12:13] <m1x10> in wikepedia it says to put 0x00 after a marker
[12:13] <m1x10> i do it but nothing..
[12:13] <fsphil> what are you trying to do?
[12:14] <m1x10> add my own comments in the jpeg file
[12:14] <m1x10> I need to know when and at which altitude a picture was taken
[12:14] <fsphil> good idea
[12:14] <m1x10> :)
[12:14] <m1x10> so?
[12:14] <fsphil> some markers, including comment, are followed by two bytes that say how big they are
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> timestamp and GPS pos too would be awesome.
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> EXIF
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> All completely standard form that can be read by most map-photo tools
[12:15] <fsphil> exif would be idea yea, but a bit more work
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:15] <Laurenceb> can you view in google earth?
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: linux?
[12:16] <m1x10> SpeedEvil no !
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I think so.
[12:16] <Laurenceb> i wrote a script ages ago to handle that - neat if its supported now
[12:16] <m1x10> fsphil, a valid jpeg returned from the cam has the FFFE marker as:
[12:16] <DanielRichman> adding the exif data on linux is very easy; we tagged all the alien one pictures with their location and alt after getting the gps log back
[12:16] <Laurenceb> - jpeg + EXIF -> kml file with clickable photos
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: umm - I would suggest searching the source for wrjpegcom
[12:16] <DanielRichman> but m1x10 - you want to do it on avr?
[12:17] <m1x10> DanielRichman yes its already done
[12:17] <fsphil> you mean the camera is already adding a comment?
[12:17] <m1x10> ee
[12:17] <m1x10> actually it contains the FFFE marker but with no comments
[12:17] <m1x10> 36 byte are available
[12:18] <fsphil> what are the two bytes after FF FE?
[12:18] <m1x10> 0x00 0x24
[12:18] <fsphil> so the next 34 bytes (36 - 2) are the comment
[12:18] <m1x10> check this image to see: http://imagebin.org/118888
[12:18] <m1x10> yes
[12:19] <m1x10> but is the 0x00 0x24 bytes the entropy data?
[12:20] <fsphil> those bytes describe how big the J_COM data is -- it's just comment, and is ignored by the decoder
[12:20] <fsphil> you could remove it from the file and it'll still work
[12:20] <m1x10> oh
[12:20] <m1x10> the 0x24 is 36
[12:20] <m1x10> ooooo how idiot iam
[12:21] <m1x10> but what about the rest?
[12:21] <m1x10> there are not zeros
[12:21] <m1x10> still contains some numbers
[12:22] <juxta|console> Randomskk: hmm, might be easier to go the cygwin route I guess
[12:22] <juxta|console> also - does anybody know if the old predictor is still online anywhere?
[12:22] <Randomskk> yea
[12:22] <Randomskk> cuspaceflight.co.uk/old_predict
[12:22] <Randomskk> wait no
[12:22] <fsphil> not sure m1x10
[12:22] <Randomskk> cuspaceflight.co.uk/predict_old
[12:23] <m1x10> ok ill give it a try
[12:23] <juxta|console> yah, guessed it Randomskk ;p
[12:23] <juxta|console> cheers :)
[12:23] <fsphil> m1x10, if that comment is always there and always the same size -you could just write your own data in there
[12:24] <m1x10> yes its always there
[12:24] <m1x10> stable size
[12:24] <juxta|console> Randomskk: it complains it's currently running a prediction, is it possible that there's a stale lockfile or something?
[12:24] <fsphil> then it'll be safe to write anything you want in those 34 bytes
[12:24] <Randomskk> most likely
[12:25] <m1x10> i think those guys hardcoded a 34-byte comment field
[12:25] <Randomskk> cleared
[12:25] <Randomskk> what do you need the old one for?
[12:25] <m1x10> in the chip
[12:25] <fsphil> most likely - I suspect they might have used it for testing
[12:25] <m1x10> sure
[12:25] <m1x10> japanese ppl
[12:25] <m1x10> :p
[12:25] <juxta|console> I was hoping to give it a go, having some issues with the new one of late, it seems to be less than 20% success rate using it of late Randomskk
[12:26] <juxta|console> (from my launch site at least)
[12:26] <Randomskk> what kind of issues?
[12:26] <juxta|console> often it just hangs at 0% wind data, or 'predictor running'
[12:27] <juxta|console> otherwise it will give an invalid prediction - sometimes they're obviously wrong (balloon takes a 90 degree turn and goes 1000km north), othertimes it looks plausible, but re-running it with the same params gives a different result
[12:28] <Randomskk> hmm, odd
[12:29] <juxta|console> yeah
[12:29] <juxta|console> right now I'm running a prediction which seems to be working: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=1a6b2125c108446479cb47c86dd3e11e501f8ebb
[12:30] <juxta|console> ran the same prediction on another machine though and it ended up 50km west
[12:30] <juxta|console> so I don't know which is right :(
[12:31] <Randomskk> huh. that is odd.
[12:32] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/KDhan.png <-sweet
[12:32] <Laurenceb> ive got the upsampling to work onboard the cc1020
[12:32] <Randomskk> nice
[12:32] <Laurenceb> so its chucking out positive frequencies
[12:33] <Laurenceb> need to tune a bit to get that mfsk64 centered
[12:33] <Laurenceb> ill have to start working on a dongle pcb XD
[12:34] <m1x10> fsphil: worked :)
[12:34] <m1x10> 24 byte enough for gps position+alt+time
[12:34] <m1x10> 34 sory
[12:37] <fsphil> sweet
[12:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig <random@randomskk.net> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[12:40] <Randomskk> wow, that was very slow
[12:40] <m1x10> stupid win7 have comment window tab but my comments are not appearing
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[12:44] <fsphil> it might show exif stuff only, not sure
[12:45] <juxta|console> yeah, when I played with exif back in winxp the comments field was for exif comments only from memory
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: neat
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: this eliminates the fft step?
[12:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: at the cost of half the bandwidth?
[12:46] <Laurenceb> nope, i get the same bandwidth
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:46] <Laurenceb> just needed to speed up the serial to get twice the data out
[12:47] <Laurenceb> as its upsampling onboard the cc1020
[12:47] <Laurenceb> thing is fldigi is limited to 4khz bandwidth, and the edges of the onboard filter arent brilliant
[12:48] <Laurenceb> ideally id add my own filter to filter 4khz from the middle
[12:48] <Laurenceb> that band on the waterfall is 10khz wide
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:51] <Laurenceb> onboard filter= onboard the cc1020
[12:51] <Laurenceb> alternatively hack fldigi to something cool like 10khz bandwidth
[12:52] <Laurenceb> but i dont fancy that
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> If you get a nice simple mass-producable dongle - it would possibly be worth asking the devs to do it
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Also - remind me - what is your dongle communicating trhrough/
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Could it pretend to be a soundcard? I fforget how much smarts your USB side has
[12:57] <Laurenceb> atm i have a breadboard setup with cp2102
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:58] <Laurenceb> but yeah i want to go with an atmega8u2 eventually
[12:58] <Laurenceb> brb
[13:01] <m1x10> the eswdust.com guy havent got in stock the fsa03 for long time
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[13:47] <m1x10> I wish there was a 1megapixel ttl camera :)
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[14:20] <griffonbot> Received email: sp2432 <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[14:21] <m1x10> !zeusbot help
[14:21] <m1x10> crap
[14:21] <m1x10> forgot its usage
[14:21] <m1x10> that griffonbot, where does it finds that messages?
[14:22] <DanielRichman> m1x10: griffonbot subscribes to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[14:23] <m1x10> so if someones sends to that mail griffonbot posts it here?
[14:23] <DanielRichman> yeah
[14:23] <DanielRichman> it's a mailing list
[14:23] <DanielRichman> if someone sends an email there it gets sent to everyoen on the list
[14:24] <DanielRichman> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[14:24] <m1x10> yes, i remember, Randomskk tried to explain to me sometime ago.
[14:28] <Randomskk> so basically this person has ignored my "it is actually illegal if you do this" part
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[14:31] <DanielRichman> well it's his loss; I'd imagine that the holder of the NOTAM won't allow him to launch from their site if it's illegal
[14:31] <Randomskk> indeed
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> illegal if do what?
[14:32] <Randomskk> fly a fixed wing autonomous plane from a balloon
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:33] <Laurenceb> directional parachute ftw
[14:34] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> I was just outside, and realised my quite large garage flat roof could have lots of little panels on it on a-frames.
[14:35] <Laurenceb> and your bank balance could be a lot worse
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Indeed. :)
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> I'm more or less somewhat interested in the prospect that panels I can make of stuff I have lying around + ebay can pay back in 4 years or so, and make me somewhat independant of the grid.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Other than as a massive battery.
[14:39] <Laurenceb> feed in tariffs may make it practical
[14:39] <Laurenceb> theres that european solar resources site somewhere...
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - feed in tarrifs make it pay back in a tiny amount of time.
[14:40] <Laurenceb> http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps/radmonth.php?en=&europe=
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> But you need to get the panel certified, and it needs to be installed by a professional installer.
[14:40] <gartt> Why fly a fixed wing aircraft from a balloon rather than just launch it from the ground?
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Which boosts the cost to perhaps 10* that of a panel built from scrap.
[14:41] <Laurenceb> thats stupidly daft
[14:41] <Laurenceb> surely just the meter needs to be installed by the energy company
[14:41] <Laurenceb> bbl
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> No.
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> The whole chain needs to be professionally certified, and installed by a certified installer.
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[15:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Walker <DaveWalker@ubuntu.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[15:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Yuan <meseta@gmail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[16:14] <Laurenceb> @ubuntu.com neat email
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[17:59] <jcoxon> evening
[18:00] <fsphil> hi hi
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Hello fellows
[18:01] <jcoxon> hi Dan-K2VOL
[18:01] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Been posting our progress fairly regularly on our twitter: @LVL1WhiteStar
[18:02] <jcoxon> yeah i'm following
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> we found a buyer for the other 5 balloons
[18:02] <jcoxon> if you put #arhab #tag it would appear on here...
[18:02] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:02] <jcoxon> oh great
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, I saw you, but didn't know if you kept up
[18:02] <Dan-K2VOL> oh really! I will
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the #tag for?
[18:03] <jcoxon> oh i mean a hashtag
[18:03] <jcoxon> !griffonbot
[18:03] <jcoxon> msg griffonbot help
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[18:03] <jcoxon> oh poo, none of those worked
[18:04] <jcoxon> so yeah any twitter with #arhab or #ukhas in gets post on to the channel as well
[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[18:04] <DanielRichman> keywords = [ "#arhab", "#ukhas", "#cusf" ]
[18:06] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, you going to have an irc channel like last time?
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> something, yes, haven't decided on what though
[18:07] <jcoxon> i'm sure it'll be discussed on here!
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> IRC isn't so easy for newbies to jump into, but it sure is ubiquitous
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, if you guys don't mind, we may post a link to here in addition
[18:07] <jcoxon> http://webchat.freenode.net i think works
[18:08] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to have a public super-simple chat, and a more technical discussion, which will probably be IRC
[18:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:08] <jcoxon> well last time it was good fun
[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Unfortunately for amateur radio, we're probably going to try to fly sat-only for the first flight, until we get the ability to drop hardware off as ballast. Once we can drop multiple modules off, the HF radio and some extra batteries will be OK to have aboard, as long as it can be jettisoned if needed
[18:10] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i see
[18:10] <jcoxon> how about about one of our mine 10mW transmitters
[18:10] <jcoxon> mine->mini
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> we just don't have time to help build out and test the 2nd gen spacenearus tracker system, as well as wrangle up all the necessary volunteers to listen
[18:10] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5087020098/
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> well, that is quite nice and tiny!
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[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> 30m?
[18:11] <jcoxon> pah 434mhz
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[18:11] <jcoxon> but that gives your ~500km range
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> well, we're only going to be at 11000m
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> alt
[18:12] <jcoxon> okay a little less
[18:12] <jcoxon> but still
[18:12] <jcoxon> if you want one i could build one up for you
[18:12] <jcoxon> got 10 pcb boards
[18:12] <jcoxon> and would pre-program it for spacenear.us
[18:13] <griffonbot> Received email: sp2432 <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[18:14] <Dan-K2VOL> we'd be open to that if you wanted to do the listener coordination
[18:15] <jcoxon> the only question would be gps module
[18:15] <jcoxon> whether you could supply gps or should i provide one
[18:15] <jcoxon> (that said i've got a lassen sitting around)
[18:15] <griffonbot> Received email: sp2432 <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> good question. I'm sure we'd be able to send the GPS data down to it, but the GPSes are so lightweight these days that it may be more trouble to do that then simply use a separate GPS.
[18:17] <jcoxon> exactly
[18:17] <jcoxon> i'm happy to contribute a tracking board
[18:17] <jcoxon> would be licence exempt so no legalities etc
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, that would allow public reception/ tracking if it did go over the UK
[18:18] <jcoxon> i think its a lot more fun if the 'public' can be involved
[18:18] <jcoxon> rather then just following on a map - which is pretty cool
[18:18] <Dan-K2VOL> the Digi m10 is a fantastic little unit though, if you can afford it, and don't need high data rate down
[18:18] <Dan-K2VOL> I agree
[18:18] <jcoxon> yeah i've been screwed over by teh SPoT i bought on ebay
[18:18] <jcoxon> has a 300 euro bill on its account
[18:18] <jcoxon> so doesn't work
[18:19] <jcoxon> going to complain to ebay to get it returned
[18:19] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill brown and Carl Lyster are working on possible HF radios that are compatible with DL-fldigi, if we flew one, would you be interested in coordinating the listening?
[18:19] <jcoxon> certainly
[18:19] <Dan-K2VOL> whoah
[18:19] <Dan-K2VOL> that really sucks
[18:20] <jcoxon> of course haven't paid it (and its in someone elses name)
[18:20] <jcoxon> but still - a new one would be far cheaper
[18:20] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i'm happy to coordinate listening
[18:20] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi is pretty advanced these days
[18:20] <jcoxon> even got the web-interface working
[18:20] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be awesome!
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL> really!! what does the web interface do? URL?
[18:21] <jcoxon> let me turn on the test server
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[18:23] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[18:23] <jcoxon> rig control at the bottom
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[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL> wow james, I could run this here on our rig if you want, screw globaltuners!
[18:25] <jcoxon> sure
[18:25] <jcoxon> just tuned it to 40m now
[18:25] Nick change: bradluyster -> Zuph
[18:25] <jcoxon> can you see the waterfall?
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, it's working well
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> I see a sig!
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> that's a really neat interface
[18:27] <jcoxon> its really dirtly hacked together
[18:27] <jcoxon> just php really
[18:27] <Dan-K2VOL> I see TES
[18:27] <Dan-K2VOL> t
[18:27] <jcoxon> i'm most proud of clickable waterfall
[18:31] <Dan-K2VOL> well, hey, it wouldn't have to stand up to much pounding, you'd only need one person to keep tabs on it remoteley
[18:32] <Dan-K2VOL> so does it serve this from the PC running dl-fldigi
[18:32] <jcoxon> yes
[18:32] <jcoxon> i adapted dl-fldigi a little to allow for payload selection
[18:32] <jcoxon> but its just php
[18:32] <jcoxon> and a small script to allow for rig control
[18:33] <Dan-K2VOL> very cool james!! is this in the distribution now?
[18:34] <jcoxon> the changes to dl-fldigi are
[18:34] <jcoxon> the rest isn't but could be packaged up pretty quickly
[18:35] <DanielRichman> which digi mode is that, the one you're receiving now?
[18:35] <DanielRichman> is it rtty?
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> listening to PA3S in the netherlans
[18:36] <DanielRichman> I didn't realise there was so much rtty around here; must remember to have a look on the hf rig tomorrow
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[18:36] <DanielRichman> usually just do psk at 7035
[18:36] <jcoxon> oh i think there must be a contest
[18:36] <jcoxon> its usually quite
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> have you guys ever looked at http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[18:36] <DanielRichman> yeah
[18:36] <jcoxon> yup
[18:37] <fsphil> it's brilliant
[18:37] <DanielRichman> Is this USB or LSB jcoxon ?
[18:37] <jcoxon> USB but reverse
[18:38] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: this works really well :)
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL> it does
[18:40] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, it needs you to clean it up for me :-p
[18:40] <jcoxon> i write the prototype - you make it actually sane
[18:40] <DanielRichman> hehe; I would prescribe some AJAX love first
[18:40] <jcoxon> also security could well be an issue with it
[18:41] <DanielRichman> yeah well the hab community is used to insecure web apps ;)
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, plus it would be difficult for everyone to punch port 80 holes through their routers :-)
[18:41] <MrCraig> anyone here happen to be a win32 api guru?
[18:41] <DanielRichman> there's no such thing as a win32 api guru
[18:41] <DanielRichman> it's a mess
[18:41] <MrCraig> true that, but the sentiment stands :)
[18:42] <jcoxon> freq change
[18:43] <jcoxon> hold on
[18:44] <DanielRichman> :o
[18:45] <DanielRichman> what was that?
[18:45] <jcoxon> oh i'm just adding the radio to my flight computer
[18:45] <jcoxon> need to get the shift right
[18:45] <DanielRichman> yeah it looks like psk at the moment
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[19:21] <jcoxon> don't need the radio now so feel free to use it
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[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[19:34] <jcoxon> grrr seems like i'll have to wait for my new radio modules
[19:34] <jcoxon> as my resistor combination doesn't give me the shift i want with this old ntx2 module
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[20:55] <SpeedEvil> http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/gif/847032b8a331def77529b6a0384db1fe_mandelbrot.gif in tribute.
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[22:11] <Laurenceb> hmm thid is isodd
[22:11] <Laurenceb> fldigi is chuckng away half my samples
[22:11] <Laurenceb> it seems to think mybe its got a sterio stream
[22:12] <Laurenceb> how do mono cables into line in work? into both channels or left... right?
[22:12] <Randomskk> I thought just left
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> both I thought
[22:13] <Laurenceb> hmm so maybe it assumes stereo with the signal in left?
[22:13] <Laurenceb> so chucks half the samples
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> copy signal to l+r
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't use the wav header/
[22:13] <Laurenceb> this is why i cant decode - the frequency deviations are all halved
[22:13] <Laurenceb> looks like it
[22:14] <Laurenceb> it isnt as case of incorrect header as the fifo lag stays constant
[22:14] <Laurenceb> so its taking them out at about the right rate
[22:16] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/uDBrt.png at least it looks pretty in gnuplot
[22:17] <Laurenceb> the agc is pretty awesome
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> How local is that transmitter?
[22:18] <Laurenceb> other side of my room
[22:18] <Laurenceb> about 4m, but no antenni on anything
[22:19] <Laurenceb> its an ntx2 transmitting mfsk64
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:19] <Laurenceb> its transmitting my modile number :P
[22:19] Action: Laurenceb waits for calls
[22:19] <Laurenceb> *mobile
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[22:20] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:21] <Randomskk> computer, zoom, enhance, decode phone number
[22:21] <Randomskk> there it is!
[22:22] <Laurenceb> heh
[22:22] <Randomskk> I'm kinda tempted to use some of these little 2.4ghz radios for my quadcopter
[22:22] <Laurenceb> its only using a few % of my cpu now - python script +fldigi
[22:22] <Randomskk> maybe an xbee, but then again perhaps not
[22:22] <Randomskk> I think ST do STM32s with 2.4
[22:23] <Randomskk> STM32W or such
[22:23] <Laurenceb> just need to work out this weird sample rate issue and its done
[22:23] <Randomskk> sounds like it's going well
[22:23] <Laurenceb> yeah they look interesting
[22:23] <Randomskk> 2.4 seems like it'd be good for quadcopter style applications, less good for hab stuff obviously
[22:23] <Laurenceb> im thinking atmega8u2 +cc1020 on a dongle
[22:24] <Laurenceb> i guess - personally i dont like 2.4, but thats as im interested in longer range stuff
[22:26] <Laurenceb> ok this gets weirder - a 4.3khz test signal shows as 2khz exactly on fldigi waterfall
[22:27] <Laurenceb> but theres no apparent increase in lag as i leave the stream running
[22:27] <Laurenceb> 19.2ksps
[22:28] <Laurenceb> so its almost like it thinks its 8ksps
[22:28] Action: Laurenceb wonders if hes found a way to hack fldigi for greater bandwidth
[22:30] <Laurenceb> Any of the following supported sample rates may be used (in Hz): 8000, 11025, 16000, 22050, 32000, 44100, 48000, 96000, 192000.
[22:30] <Laurenceb> hmm
[22:31] <Laurenceb> looks like fldigi doesnt handle non standard sample rates - i just noticed theres intermittent glitches where the waterfall scrolls at a different rate - thats probably how come the fifo never gets really full
[22:51] <Laurenceb> http://heliosj.iddings.us/main/using_fldigi_to_listen_from_remote_sites <-neat
[22:52] <Laurenceb> looks like it expects 8ksps mono 16bit , yay resampling time
[22:52] Action: Laurenceb realises he is talking to himself
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Mostly.
[22:52] <Randomskk> well I am listening but don't really have anything to contribute
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> I'm falling asleep.
[22:53] <Laurenceb> heh
[22:53] <Laurenceb> <-hates resampling
[22:53] <Laurenceb> like the streaming over ip idea
[22:54] <Laurenceb> stream to habhub and do fancy dsp
[22:55] <Randomskk> very much like that in concept, especially for people with good signal/internet
[22:55] <Randomskk> if we get multiple useful data streams we could do a lot
[22:56] <Laurenceb> i finally understand why the waterfall is commented "stay < 4khz" in the source code - the whole program is built around a 8ksps audio stream
[22:57] <Laurenceb> thats why you need libsamplerate - to resample to 8ksps
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[23:23] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:24] Action: Laurenceb broke something
[23:24] <Laurenceb> http://codepad.org/psBEMdyy
[23:24] <Randomskk> s08 and u08 are undeclared types
[23:25] <Randomskk> check you included the right file
[23:25] <Laurenceb> plldivider seems to go to weird random values
[23:25] <Laurenceb> singed and unsigned char
[23:25] <Randomskk> yes but the compiler is saying it has no idea what you are on about
[23:26] <Laurenceb> oh that window below is generated by the pastebin
[23:26] <Laurenceb> for some weird reason
[23:26] <Randomskk> oh
[23:26] <Randomskk> I see
[23:26] <Randomskk> that makes more sense
[23:26] Action: Laurenceb cant see the error.. maybe treating a register as a signed char?
[23:27] <Randomskk> a compiling pastebin seems pointless
[23:27] <Laurenceb> just a bit
[23:27] <Laurenceb> it might be something else - like the script that talks to the avr
[23:28] <Randomskk> I'd need to see what plldivider and registers_setup was I guess
[23:29] <Laurenceb> http://codepad.org/S8AKz5bs
[23:30] <Randomskk> why does UDR0 not have a type? does C magically guess it based on function return value?
[23:31] <Randomskk> also why convert to signed?
[23:31] <Laurenceb> so it can be -ive
[23:31] <Randomskk> I take it it is correctly signed data?
[23:31] <Randomskk> things may be going wrong adding a signed 8bit int to an unsigned 32bit int
[23:32] <Laurenceb> in using struct.pack in python at the other end
[23:34] <Laurenceb> typecast u32 as s32?
[23:35] <Laurenceb> it works with hardcoded fudging of the registers_setup array
[23:36] <Randomskk> I don't think adding a signed int to an unsigned int is a great idea
[23:36] <Randomskk> but equally typecasting the u32 to s32 might bugger up if it has its negative going bit set
[23:36] <Laurenceb> come to think of it ive had this issue before with avrgcc
[23:37] <Laurenceb> the top 8 bits are 0
[23:37] <Laurenceb> yeah iirc i need to typecast to s32
[23:37] <Laurenceb> oh well i need to get some sleep
[23:37] <Laurenceb> will try that 2morrow, cya
[23:37] <Randomskk> seeya
[23:38] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-142-83-50.range86-142.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:00] --- Mon Oct 18 2010