highaltitude.log.20101016

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[00:45] <natrium42> lolwat
[00:47] <stilldavid> natrium42, I hear A.t+F4 opens a new window or something
[00:47] <stilldavid> make that Alt
[00:52] <ws2222> why are rockets so expensive? i calculated at $150/kg a 3person 2stage to orbit ship would only cost $6.67 million
[00:52] <ws2222> that is for structural mass
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[00:57] <natrium42> stilldavid, join #highaltitude30,000 please
[00:58] <stilldavid> hrm?
[00:59] <natrium42> we're just talking about gliders there
[01:01] <stilldavid> oh, it's another channel?
[01:01] <natrium42> yeah
[01:02] <stilldavid> I'm out of the loop
[01:03] Action: natrium42 fails at troll attempt
[01:04] <natrium42> the ",000" at the end makes most irc clients quit all channels
[01:07] Action: stilldavid wwhhooooossshhhh
[01:21] Action: SpeedEvil saw comet.
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> (just)
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> Barely visible fuzzy patch.
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[01:21] <SpeedEvil> Though saw 2 meteors.
[01:21] <SpeedEvil> First really clear night of the year that I've seen - which is good and bad.
[01:22] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, naked eye or scope?
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[02:03] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Saturday's launch is at Indian Hills elementary school. We'll start filling at 8 AM. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/27500147903]
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> naked eye.
[02:06] <SpeedEvil> only visible with averted vision
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> I went to sleep, and woke up at 1AM.
[02:07] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't want to put the lights on, as I would break dark adaption, so couldn't find binocs.
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[02:08] <juxta|console> hey all
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> hey
[02:09] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, what magnitude is it?
[02:09] <juxta|console> heya SpeedEvil, no red lights at the ready? :p
[02:09] <natrium42> hi juxta
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> I think 6
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> heavens-above.com says 4.5
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> It's lots harder to see than a star at 4.5
[02:09] <juxta|console> hey natrium42
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> My sky is moderately dark, but it could be darker.
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> Can easily see milky way, but light pollutionis definately there.
[02:10] <natrium42> yah, good stuff
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> Which hurts with extended objects
[02:10] <juxta|console> do you mind if I experiment with the tracker code in the next few days natrium42? I promise I'll back it up before butchering :)
[02:12] <natrium42> sure, go ahead
[02:13] <juxta|console> alrighty
[02:13] <juxta|console> I just want to try and do something about the massive volume of data being sent to the clients
[02:14] <juxta|console> I took a dump of the DB after the last flight, so I might load that in and experient
[02:14] <juxta|console> experiment even
[02:14] <natrium42> sounds good
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[02:16] <juxta|console> have you set a date yet natrium? :)
[02:23] <natrium42> not yet
[02:25] Action: natrium42 got iphone 4 today
[02:25] <natrium42> it's pretty nice
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[02:25] <natrium42> maps should be much better on the high res screen
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[02:29] <juxta|console> agreed, the high res is quite nifty
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[02:50] <juxta|console> has anybody pulled apart an NTX2 to work out the transmitter design?
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[05:48] <natrium42> nice, tracker seems to work great on iphone 4
[05:49] Action: natrium42 also found a nice theodolite app
[05:49] <juxta|console> oh nice natrium42
[05:50] <juxta|console> we tried on an ipad last week without success
[05:50] <natrium42> maybe there were too many points? it works fine with current # of points and iOS 4.1
[05:51] <juxta|console> I think that was probably it
[05:51] <natrium42> perhaps there should be an option to show the last hundred of positions
[05:51] <natrium42> plus the predictions
[05:52] <natrium42> that would be useful for chasing
[05:52] <juxta|console> yeah
[05:52] <juxta|console> the other thing is, with 300b data, you can easily get 3 or 4 updates in per refresh of the tracker
[05:53] <juxta|console> and with multiple listeners, that could be 10-20 points every refresh
[05:53] <natrium42> yep, it's too much
[05:53] Action: natrium42 nevar anticipated those kinds of rates
[05:53] <juxta|console> i was thinking along the lines of feeding an new client perhaps the first & last points, then every 10-20 points in between
[05:54] <juxta|console> a* new client
[05:55] <juxta|console> and for the ajax updates maybe just the most recent point - what do you think natrium42?
[05:56] <natrium42> i could be tricky
[05:56] Action: natrium42 should go to bed
[05:56] <juxta|console> yeah, i figured as much, hehe
[05:56] <natrium42> g'nite
[05:56] <juxta|console> night :-)
[05:57] <natrium42> should have been *it
[05:57] <natrium42> :)
[05:57] <juxta|console> haha
[05:57] <natrium42> but either way :)
[05:57] <natrium42> nn
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[05:57] <juxta|console> I thought of perhaps only accepting new data into the DB if the position has moved by a certain amount, say 100m
[05:58] <juxta|console> or maybe less, say 20m
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[06:06] <shenki> juxta|console: another consideration would be to use the html5 db for storing points
[06:06] <shenki> so there can be a large initial download if you're late to the game, but once you've got that data, there's no need to re-download
[06:07] <shenki> which would help alot when you're in a chase car that has spotty 3G wifi
[06:13] <juxta|console> thats a nifty idea
[06:13] <juxta|console> requires a major re-write though ;p
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[07:06] <m1x10> Yaym, corrupted image issue solved !!!
[07:06] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[07:07] <fsphil> morning m1x10
[07:07] <m1x10> good morning
[07:07] <m1x10> solution was a bit noobish
[07:08] <m1x10> int variable --> long int :)
[07:08] <fsphil> d'oh! that simple
[07:08] <fsphil> how's it look?
[07:09] <m1x10> yeah, I got in contact with that japanese engineer and he told me that
[07:09] <m1x10> wait to upload a pic
[07:10] <fsphil> yea upload a few
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[07:17] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118745
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[07:18] <m1x10> this is a cloudy weather pic
[07:19] <fsphil> no shortage of cloud today :)
[07:20] <m1x10> heh
[07:20] <m1x10> so what do u think ?
[07:20] <fsphil> that's very good -- what size is that image?
[07:20] <m1x10> VGA
[07:20] <fsphil> in kb
[07:20] <m1x10> 47kb
[07:20] <m1x10> with 36% compression
[07:20] <m1x10> now should try with 0
[07:20] <fsphil> it's definitely better quality than the sfc camera
[07:21] <fsphil> sfe vev
[07:21] <fsphil> even
[07:22] <fsphil> what about more compression?
[07:22] <fsphil> how does it look then
[07:22] <m1x10> now im testing 0%
[07:22] <m1x10> then ill test 70%
[07:23] <juxta|console> very nice m1x10, is this to transmit images in flight?
[07:23] <m1x10> juxta|console not for first flight.
[07:24] <fsphil> if it had some way to read in blocks it would be perfect for that
[07:24] <m1x10> 0% --> 48.1kb
[07:25] <m1x10> as image looks same as 47kb
[07:26] <fsphil> breakfast, brb :)
[07:26] <LazyLeopard> Any change in predictions?
[07:28] <m1x10> fsphil, lol with 70% produced bigger image than 0%
[07:36] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, not really
[07:36] <LazyLeopard> Another month, then... :/
[07:37] <fsphil> yea, looks like it's going to be a winter launch
[07:37] <fsphil> brrr
[07:38] <LazyLeopard> Ah well...
[07:38] <fsphil> m1x10, can you do 100%? :)
[07:56] <m1x10> im not sure if i set the compression ratio correctly in protocol
[07:57] <m1x10> I should contact the japanese again
[07:57] <m1x10> his name is: Xiaohui Ma
[07:57] <m1x10> !
[08:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Earthshine Electronics <mikemcr68@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[08:10] <m1x10> fsphil: some landscape: http://imagebin.org/118749
[08:17] <fsphil> I must take a shot out my window to compare
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[08:24] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood <john@jcu.me.uk> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[08:46] <fsphil> hehe, 640x480 takes a while to transmit
[08:47] <fsphil> the picture is also mostly purple
[08:56] <fsphil> euu, http://imagebin.org/118755
[08:56] <fsphil> ahh the second one is looking much better
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[09:02] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[10:19] <jcoxon> ping juxta
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[10:39] Action: Laurenceb has cc1020 -> fldigi streaming working sucessfully
[10:40] <Laurenceb> finally :D
[10:40] <Laurenceb> its killing my processor tho :-S need to rewrite the frequency conversion in c
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[10:41] <Laurenceb> also needs a proper way to control the cc1020 pll registers
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> Congratulations!
[10:41] Action: SpeedEvil is considering solar power seriously.
[10:41] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[10:42] <Laurenceb> its not that cool - fldig is still limited to 0-4khz bandwidth
[10:42] <DanielRichman> how did you get it working in the end Laurenceb ?
[10:42] <Laurenceb> hacked a .wav file header together
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> I have lots of old bus-windows, and even completely neglecting export payments, it may be worth it, if I just do net metering.
[10:42] <DanielRichman> and then just binary output? cool
[10:42] <Laurenceb> then chucked that into the stream followed by the data
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> You just start fldigi on the wav file after you start the cc stream?
[10:43] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/MwHS2snD
[10:43] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:43] <Laurenceb> thats the python code - the numpy fft stuff is killing my laptop
[10:44] <Laurenceb> ithink it would be better done using c and libsamplerate together with some complex multiplication by a local oscillator
[10:45] <Laurenceb> rather than brute force fft frequency upconversion and upsampling
[10:46] <Laurenceb> i should probably document all this - if i get a dongle made itd be a perfect and really cheap way to do HAB downlink
[10:47] <Laurenceb> < £10 for the whole thing in single units
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Have you done any noise estimates?
[10:47] <Laurenceb> only from the datasheet info
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[10:47] <Laurenceb> i got about 6dB noise figure
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> ...
[10:47] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[10:47] <Laurenceb> it would be possible to stick an lna on the front
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> stm32 - a cheap one + cc* plus cheap GPS.
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> And you've got a very cheap payload that could do relays.
[10:49] <Laurenceb> yes, converting to wav and running fldigi is stupidly wasteful
[10:49] <Laurenceb> if a decoder was writting from scratch itd easily work on stm32
[10:50] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[10:51] <Laurenceb> how many times has that been posted
[10:51] Action: SpeedEvil needs to sit down and stop doing random shit, and get something built and off to ebay.
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> Screwing around is easier though.
[10:51] <Laurenceb> im intreaged about Dr Cornelius now
[10:51] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[10:51] <Darkside> i was planning on workign on amp this weekend
[10:51] <Darkside> but my CRO isnt turning on :(
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> :/
[10:51] <Laurenceb> iDr Cornelius now
[10:51] <Darkside> so i can't check teh output waveform
[10:51] <Laurenceb> Dr Cornelius
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Have you tried soft lights, candles, and flowers?
[10:52] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: hahaa
[10:52] <Darkside> with this one, it might work
[10:52] <Darkside> its a Trio CS-1200a
[10:52] <Darkside> 100MHz
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Is it a reparieale scope - one with a circuit diagram?
[10:52] <Laurenceb> oh i thought griffonbot would respond
[10:52] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: i dont have it
[10:52] <Darkside> there might be a manual at uni
[10:52] <Darkside> since uni gave it to me
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> Older scopes often have diagrams in manuals - or in the box at least.
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> And are quite repairable.
[10:53] <Darkside> yeah, this one is old
[10:53] <Darkside> in this case its just not turning on
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Digital scopes - good luck.
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Did it turn on recently?
[10:53] <Darkside> heh
[10:53] <Darkside> yeah
[10:53] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: original plan was to have griffonbot link the email on groups.google.com when it announces it, but we couldn't find a way to deduce the message id as usede on the website from email headers
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Have you checked the fuse?
[10:53] <DanielRichman> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/browse_thread/thread/1ac2ac05f58a72c3
[10:53] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: hmm ill check
[10:53] <Darkside> i dont think its that tho
[10:53] <Laurenceb> ah i see its coming off groups
[10:54] <Laurenceb> fair enough
[10:54] <Laurenceb> "I'm trying to determine if the Wii Nunchuck will work at altitude"
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> In practice, very unliklely to be the problem. Also check stupid stuff. For example, I spent ages chasing a hard-disk corruption problem to ork out eventually that it was a mains IEC cable that was buggered.
[10:54] <Laurenceb> just buy an accel already
[10:55] <Darkside> cante ven find the fuse
[10:55] <Darkside> bah
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> yeah - repurposing wii stuff was slightly interesting several years ago.
[10:55] <juxta> is the nunchuck even 3 axis?
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> But accel prices have crashed so stupidly fast.
[10:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Henry Fletcher <hmlfletcher@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
[10:56] <Laurenceb> lsm302dlh - £3, lsm303dlh -£7
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> heh
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> I love the general consensus.
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> 303 has gyro and beter accel?
[10:57] <Laurenceb> magno
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> err - yes
[10:57] <Darkside> hmm i might crack this thing open
[10:57] Action: Laurenceb wonders if itd be neat to write a kalman filter lib for python
[10:58] <Darkside> haha
[10:58] <Darkside> ahh man, i'm gonna need to learn about that over the holidays...
[10:58] <Darkside> since i need to be working on passive radar next year
[10:59] <Laurenceb> someone seems to have done a libsamplrate module
[10:59] <Laurenceb> im not 100% convinced they understand how it works
[11:00] <Laurenceb> it seems to operate on discreet arrays
[11:00] <Laurenceb> thats not the point, libsamplerate is a resampling buffer
[11:00] <Darkside> WOAH
[11:00] <Darkside> ok
[11:00] <Darkside> thats how it opens
[11:00] <Laurenceb> chuck data in and grab it out the other side
[11:00] <Darkside> shiiiiiiit flyback close to balls
[11:01] <Darkside> i need a bench
[11:01] <Laurenceb> .. flyback on #electronics?
[11:01] <Darkside> flyback transformer
[11:01] <Darkside> inside this CRO
[11:01] <Laurenceb> whew
[11:01] <Darkside> i had it sitting on my lap when i opened it up
[11:02] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:02] <Darkside> hmm the fuse looks ok
[11:03] <Darkside> mann, the inside of this thing is insane
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[11:06] <SpeedEvil> Do you at least have DMM?
[11:06] <Darkside> yeah
[11:06] <Darkside> but i dont have a schematic
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> You don't need one for 0th order.
[11:06] <Darkside> ?
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Does power exist on primary side of transformer
[11:07] <Darkside> i'm kind of worried about turning this thing on with teh cover open
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> does it exist on the input to a low-voltage bridge rectifier.
[11:07] <Darkside> especially with what i'm seeing in here
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> The flyback will typically be ~2KV or so
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> ...
[11:08] <Darkside> also i cant find the bridge rectifier
[11:08] <Darkside> its pretty tight
[11:08] <Darkside> found the transformer, its a potted toroid
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Find the reservoir caps
[11:09] <Darkside> yeah i think the PSU board is buried in here somewhere
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> anywya - frist see if you can scare up a manual
[11:10] <Darkside> yeah ill have to get one from uni
[11:10] <Darkside> nothing here
[11:11] <Darkside> and nothing online that i could find
[11:11] <Darkside> lol theres a battery in here
[11:11] <Darkside> wtf
[11:12] <Darkside> and omre WTFage in here
[11:12] <Darkside> a coil of what appears to be coax
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> It's coax.
[11:12] <Darkside> but the inner core isnt solid, its got a coil
[11:12] <Darkside> like its a long shielded coil
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> If you delay the signal 100ns or so, then you can trigger before the waveform, and catch the beginning.
[11:12] <Darkside> HAH
[11:13] <Darkside> thats it
[11:13] <Darkside> yes, this has a delay time multiplier
[11:13] <Darkside> this is awesome
[11:17] <Darkside> hmmm
[11:18] <Darkside> no voltage across a large capacitor
[11:18] <Darkside> thats not good
[11:21] <davidjc> Who would I have to contact in getting permission to launch from the EARS site in Cambridgeshire?
[11:26] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: there's AC in there, but theres no voltage across any of the logic chips
[11:26] <Darkside> so i think something in the PSU has failed
[11:28] <Darkside> closing it back up now..
[11:37] <juxta> davidjc, I'm not sure who would be best, but Rob Harrison might be able to point you in the right direction
[11:39] <Darkside> juxta: soooo close to getting this amp working :(
[11:39] <Darkside> its all constructed, but i don't want to turn it on without checking the gate waveform
[11:39] <juxta> any luck with the scope?
[11:39] <Darkside> nope
[11:39] <juxta> :(
[11:39] <Darkside> internal PSU is dead it seems
[11:39] <juxta> this is the 2W E class?
[11:40] <Darkside> basicallyt if i mess up the gate waveform, i lock the FETs on and burn them out
[11:40] <Darkside> yep
[11:40] <juxta> go nick another scope from EE then :P
[11:40] <Darkside> lol
[11:40] <Darkside> well on monday i'll be able to work on it at uni
[11:40] <Darkside> i wanted to work on it over the weekend :P
[11:41] <juxta> ahh well
[11:41] <juxta> hey, we may have another launch next weekend
[11:41] <juxta> cross band repeater is ready :)
[11:42] <Darkside> ahh man, really?
[11:42] <Darkside> i'm gonna be busy on sunday, and i'm working saturday
[11:43] <juxta> ah shucks
[11:43] <juxta> well, we'll see
[11:44] <Darkside> sunday is my interview and test flight for the adelaide soaring club gliding scholarship
[11:44] <Darkside> i'll be out at gawler all day
[11:45] <juxta> oh nice, good luck :)
[11:55] <Darkside> juxta: how does the repeater operatE?
[11:56] <Darkside> what input and output
[11:56] <juxta> electricity in, RF out
[11:56] <juxta> ;p
[11:56] <Darkside> bah
[11:56] <Darkside> i mean frequencies
[11:56] <juxta> 70 in, 2m out :)
[11:56] <Darkside> oooooooh
[11:56] <Darkside> i could so trigger that from here :P
[11:56] <Darkside> well, if it was in a good location
[11:57] <juxta> you could easily do it from your hous
[11:57] <juxta> house
[11:57] <juxta> once its airborne
[11:57] <Darkside> wire up my simoco to a beam
[11:57] <Darkside> yeah but i don't have a license :P
[11:57] <juxta> even a handheld 300+km away is no issues
[12:00] <Upu> is Icarus up ?
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[12:13] <m1x10> hi
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[13:39] <m1x10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM&feature=player_embedded
[13:40] <DanielRichman> there's a sequl too
[13:41] <m1x10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqip_0Vjec&feature=player_embedded
[13:41] <m1x10> im just amazed
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[14:03] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/118785
[14:03] <m1x10> fast fast: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
[14:06] <Darkside> connectttttt
[14:06] GeekShad0w (~Antoine@67.138.195-77.rev.gaoland.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:06] <Darkside> cmonn load
[14:06] <Darkside> whats this
[14:06] <Darkside> its outside
[14:06] <Darkside> where is this
[14:07] <m1x10> actually when i posted it was coming from night to day
[14:08] <Darkside> ah cool
[14:08] <Darkside> now theres no vide :(
[14:08] <jcoxon> afternoon
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[14:09] <Darkside> now the video is back
[14:09] <Darkside> almost 1am here jcoxon
[14:09] <Darkside> :P
[14:09] <jcoxon> pah
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[14:11] <jcoxon> sweet, updating ubuntu has made my laptop faster :-p
[14:11] <DanielRichman> upgrade from which version to 10.10?
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[14:11] <jcoxon> nah the one behind still
[14:12] <DanielRichman> 10.04?
[14:12] <jcoxon> just using update manager
[14:12] <DanielRichman> which version were you on before?
[14:12] <jcoxon> but there was a bug in the intel driver, seems so one has fixed it
[14:14] Action: DanielRichman is still on 10.04
[14:14] <jcoxon> yeah thats what i'm on
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[14:18] <m1x10> hi jcoxon
[14:18] <Darkside> i'm on 10.6 :P
[14:18] MrCraig (~Craig@host86-166-107-156.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] Action: m1x10 is gonna make a 15GB partition for hosting his slack
[14:19] Action: m1x10 got sick of hearing other ppl working on linux
[14:20] Action: MrCraig can't get his ubuntu to connect to the BT-Homehub - can connect it to openzone but when I do and start a dload my homehub dies.... and wtf? my homehub is contributing to the local openzone network? Is that why it keeps crashing?!
[14:20] <MrCraig> bt sux
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> yes, openzone is part of homehubs
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> you can turn it off I think.
[14:23] <MrCraig> Whenever the bandwidth I'm using changes sharply (like dloading linux update packages fx) the homehub crashes, and the only way to get it back is reset it. It seems it does the same if a large dload starts on openzone - so if it can be turned of that's what I'm doing
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> ...
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> I'd report that failure to BT
[14:24] <MrCraig> I plan to - filing a big complaint and I'll question being part of openzone at the same time
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> You will find it's in the T&Cs
[14:25] <MrCraig> I mean, I know BT FON uses home hubs but that's voluntary.
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> BT FON = openzone
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> IIRC that happned several years ago.
[14:26] <MrCraig> yup I know they're the same, but I think for those who had contracts before openzone they were asked to volunteer in for FON?
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> At the same time, free fon hubs went away
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Uness you've read your T&Cs...
[14:26] <MrCraig> gah
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> I've never ever had a successful connection to a openzone/homehub personally.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Woo. I now have 8 carrier bags of lovely apples.
[14:27] <MrCraig> my ubuntu box is happier connecting to openzone than directly to my hub
[14:27] Action: SpeedEvil has been up a ladder.
[14:27] <MrCraig> :-)
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> -> highaltitude content
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[15:09] <jcoxon> GPS lock!
[15:09] <jcoxon> wooohoo
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:15] <fsphil> m1x10, http://imagebin.org/118759
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[15:26] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: interesting
[15:27] <Laurenceb> i have a homehub thats perpetually glitchy - thought it was my computer
[15:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/graphics/icons/comment/badgers_48.png
[15:32] Action: Laurenceb likes
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[15:39] <m1x10> fsphil: I think you camera is better
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[15:45] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/118797
[15:45] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering a quite large solar panel.
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> Kw.
[15:46] <Laurenceb> you should make a giant solar thermal store
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes.
[15:46] <Laurenceb> and use vacuum tube water heaters
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> Thattoo.
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> But electricity isof course more valuable, and a comparatively small amount of my energy use is heat ATM.
[15:47] <Laurenceb> remember that simulation i did - you could basically heat all winter with an extra floor of 90C water
[15:47] Action: Laurenceb just got £200 taken out of his account for someone elses heating
[15:48] <Laurenceb> i think i left some bank documents in a drawer at a house i was living in in oxford
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[15:48] <Laurenceb> someones used them to setup direct debit for the gas
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> I've done the same sum.
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> ow.
[15:48] <fsphil> m1x10, I think yours is a bit clearer
[15:48] <Laurenceb> yes, need to speak to bank etc on monday
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> I need to finish the insulation work here.
[15:49] <Laurenceb> will have to convince them i dont live there any more and so on, that'll be fun
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> No you don't AIUI.
[15:49] <Laurenceb> or alternatively go there a punch present resident in face until he gives me the money
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> You just need to invoke the DD guarantee, and you can get them to turn it off.
[15:50] <Laurenceb> ah thats good
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> It's then your problem if you do this fraudulently.
[15:50] <m1x10> fsphil :)
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it.
[15:50] <Laurenceb> thanks for the info
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> But a kilowatt of solar - from ebay bare cells - is no longer truly prohibitive.
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1kw-DIY-solar-cell-kit-fresh-6x6-cells-made-asia-/150507133481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230aec9a29
[15:53] <m1x10> what is that ustream.tv ?
[15:54] <Laurenceb> hmm a few housand hours at full power should repay
[15:55] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/118800
[15:55] <m1x10> fsphil: I believe my cams color is not good
[15:56] <Laurenceb> realisitcally including cost of power conversion and cloudy weather i got 9 year payback time
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> At pessimistic assumptions - 150Wav - I get the panel repaying in under 3 years.
[15:56] <Laurenceb> for those panels
[15:56] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:57] <Laurenceb> borderline feasible
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> This is neglecting the cost of everything else.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> If you could get the feed-in-tarrifs and stuff, that goes from 3 years to 9 months.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> I just realised that my shed has a southfacing roof, at the right angle, of 1Kw size.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> And is in a mostly exposed position.
[15:59] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting
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[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, getting the feed-in-tarrifs is quite impossible.
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[16:11] <jcoxon> if i want to make a simple resistor heator
[16:11] <jcoxon> (to warm the ntx2 crystal)
[16:11] <jcoxon> what sort of resistors should i use?
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> A thermistor
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> the right value of positive tempco thermistor will self-heat at around the right temp.
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[16:12] <jcoxon> of i've got a ds18b20 there
[16:13] <jcoxon> and a transistor to control 2 resistors in series
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> oh
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> I'd just use a TO220 NPN transistor
[16:14] <jcoxon> self heat with the transistor?
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:15] <jcoxon> too late now - i've laid it out on my pcb :-p
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> put it on a little can, seperated from the crystal, apply teh ds* to the crystal.
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:16] <jcoxon> with a resistor heater do i need low resistance resistors?
[16:17] <fsphil> uhf sdr -> http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Work out what power you want max, what voltage, and do the resistance.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> heatsinked resistors are easy, but if it's for low power stuff, a 1W metal film and lots of heatsink goop works fine too
[16:19] <jcoxon> okay cool
[16:19] <jcoxon> thanks for the pointers
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> np
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[16:20] <jcoxon> waiting on a new order ntx2 modules
[16:20] <jcoxon> so will fix that when i'm able to do some testing
[16:28] Action: DanielRichman is confused: http://pastie.org/1225920
[16:31] <DanielRichman> the partial function-object-pythonything should concatenate the args it was called with and the args that it was initialised with (ie .args)
[16:31] <DanielRichman> and there's only 2 of each (as shown in the pastie)
[16:31] <DanielRichman> = 4 args; not 5, so headers should be its default {} (?)
[16:33] <DanielRichman> why does it work when I do this:
[16:33] <DanielRichman> def do_scgi_request(socket_type, socket_addr, url, data=None, headers=None):
[16:33] <DanielRichman> if headers == None:
[16:33] <DanielRichman> headers = {}
[16:38] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/1225954 I think that might be why. I wonder if that's intended behaviour...
[16:47] <Laurenceb> is there a way to do a non blocking input it pyrthon
[16:47] <Laurenceb> *in python?
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[16:48] <Laurenceb> so if i hit a key it can be detected and say call a function to allow the input to be processed
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[16:53] <jcoxon> eeek - vcc/gnd wrong way round on my temp sensor
[16:53] <jcoxon> not sure if it survived...
[16:54] <jcoxon> no magic smoke at least
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[16:59] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: threading, or you could poll stdin using non blocking IO every so often
[17:00] <DanielRichman> depends on how you want the function to be executed; if the function needs to be executed in the main thread because it does something unthreadsafe, you would need to poll something (be it an internal variable or the io) anyway
[17:00] <DanielRichman> for threading; import threading; threading.Thread(target=a).start()
[17:01] <DanielRichman> def a(): sys.stdin.read() or whatever; call_a_function()
[17:01] <DanielRichman> for nonblocking IO, I think there is a settimeout function; you'd then have to catch the timeout error raised
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[17:03] <Laurenceb> not sure what i want actually...
[17:03] <Laurenceb> im trying to add a tuning capability
[17:04] <Laurenceb> guess youd enter a new frequency in the terminal
[17:04] <Laurenceb> when you press enter its processed, but it has to be non blocking
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[17:23] <jcoxon> temperature sensor fixed
[17:23] <jcoxon> hooray
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[17:29] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5087020098/
[17:29] <jcoxon> the gps isn't meant to be sticking up
[17:29] <jcoxon> it'll be on a cable
[17:29] <jcoxon> but for prototyping its easy this way
[17:30] <fsphil> looks well
[17:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.microsoft.com/showcase/en/US/details/faaf9eb8-77c6-4bed-bc08-c069a7bfbb04 <- fail
[17:32] <Laurenceb> they ask you to install silverlight to view the video
[17:33] <Laurenceb> looks neat
[17:33] <jcoxon> just need the radio now
[17:34] <fsphil> so making your own pcbs -- worth it?
[17:35] <jcoxon> yeah i think so
[17:35] <jcoxon> avoids a lot of old problems i used to have with dodgey connectors
[17:35] <jcoxon> seeedstudio is pretty good for small boards
[17:36] <jcoxon> considering 10 boards 5cmx5cm is only 20 dollars
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[17:41] <jcoxon> not sure what to do about my SPOT
[17:41] Zuph (~bradluyst@69.64.6.67) joined #highaltitude.
[17:42] <jcoxon> afternoon Zuph
[17:42] <fsphil> did you try firing an email off to spot?
[17:42] <jcoxon> not yet - was thinking of just returning it to the seller and getting a new one
[17:42] <jcoxon> but they haven't returned my emails yet
[17:43] <Zuph> jcoxon: Afternoon!
[17:43] <jcoxon> how goes the balloon flight planning?
[17:43] <fsphil> not surprised -- they probably found out the same thing
[17:43] <jcoxon> i just don't think SPoT will bail on a 300 euro bill
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: looking interesting.
[17:46] <jcoxon> fsphil, part of me thinks - we should just hack it up anyway
[17:46] <jcoxon> as i'm going to struggle to get it returned
[17:47] <jcoxon> and it would be good practice for a new one
[17:48] <fsphil> I wonder how they identify it -- if that could be changed
[17:48] <jcoxon> if you register an account you need a number
[17:48] <jcoxon> its a good point
[17:49] <jcoxon> there is a serial code on the module which you need to input
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[17:49] <fsphil> drat -- probably burned into an IC somewhere too
[17:50] <jcoxon> i assume its burned into the sat transmitter IC
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[17:50] <jcoxon> though would be worth chatting with the spot hacking maestro
[17:50] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[17:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, or i could just use it and then as its almost certainly going to land in the sea...
[17:54] <fsphil> hehe
[17:54] <fsphil> ye of little faith :)
[18:01] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:02] <fsphil> we may not need it anyway
[18:03] <jcoxon> that is true
[18:03] <jcoxon> i'm tempted not to bother as well
[18:03] <jcoxon> its just another thing to go wrong
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[18:05] <fsphil> yep - and less weight
[18:06] <jcoxon> yeah its not light
[18:07] Nick change: rambo -> kd0mto
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[18:17] <shaa> Hey
[18:17] <jcoxon> hi
[18:18] <shaa> i heated some 'copper' and it gave off a black smoke
[18:18] <shaa> it was in sheet form, and it curled up. when it sperated i saw some thin layers in betwen
[18:18] <shaa> any idea what this crap really was?
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[18:52] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/ngEKn.png <- mfsk in fldigi through the cc1020
[18:53] <Laurenceb> it wont decode at the moment - seems to be a bit corrupted by the frequency convertion code - im rewriting it in c
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[18:57] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: Did you get your system patched up?
[18:57] <Laurenceb> yes thanks
[18:58] <Laurenceb> still some errors on boot
[18:58] <Laurenceb> "an error occured mounting /dev/proc/usb "
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[19:00] <kd0mto> huh, weird, we'll at least it's useable right now.
[19:01] <m1x10> hi
[19:01] <Laurenceb> a few processes terminate with status4 after that
[19:01] <m1x10> who knows what is that antimov at sparkfun?
[19:02] Action: Laurenceb is presently try to work out a fast way to convert from a complex data stream with negative frequency components to one with all positive freuqencies and real data
[19:02] <Laurenceb> m1x10: a waste of time
[19:02] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[19:03] <Laurenceb> numpy is eating my cpu
[19:03] <Laurenceb> but its nice to use a python script
[19:03] <Laurenceb> upsampling by a factor of two and multiplying by a complex local oscillator works
[19:04] <Laurenceb> but a computationally fast upsampling technique is required
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> Upsampling using what interpolation?
[19:04] <Laurenceb> sinc
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> sin(x)/x?
[19:04] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:04] <Laurenceb> fft also works but its slow and it leads to corruption effects due to the blocks
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> windowing algorithm issues
[19:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/antimov
[19:07] <Laurenceb> hmm i guess it is worth watching tho
[19:07] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if there is a simple way to arbitrarily cut off thenegatve freqs.
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> I can't think of one.
[19:08] <Laurenceb> it seems to be something that should be trivial and isnt
[19:10] <Laurenceb> looks like antimov finished?
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[19:49] <Laurenceb> plldivider=(u32)((register_talk(0x04,0x00,0x00)<<16)|(register_talk(0x05,0x00,0x00)<<8)|(register_talk(0x06,0x00,0x00))); will this work if register_talk returns u08 ? or do i need plldivider=(u32)(((u32)register_talk(0x04,0x00,0x00)<<16)|((u16)register_talk(0x05,0x00,0x00)<<8)|(register_talk(0x06,0x00,0x00)));
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[19:50] <kd0mto> SpeedEvil: Wht do you mean negative frequencies?
[19:50] <kd0mto> Are talking about the left side of the FFT?
[19:51] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> kd0mto: Laurenceb has a IF sampled with I and Q. The IF is symmetrical around 0.
[19:52] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:52] <Laurenceb> atm i fft it and shift the fft up so its all +ive, thenpad the left side with zeros and ifft
[19:53] <Laurenceb> then take the real part, convert to s16 and stream it as a .wav
[19:53] <Laurenceb> but that kills my processor at just 20ksps, and i want to go up to 200ksps
[19:54] <Laurenceb> ill probably try libsamplerate to upsample by a factor of 2 then multiply my a complex exponential in c
[19:54] <Laurenceb> thats a slightly more clever way to do the same thing
[19:54] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: Do you know what the negative components show on an FFT?
[19:55] <Laurenceb> -ive frequecies
[19:55] <Laurenceb> sin(wt) where w is negative
[19:55] <Laurenceb> or in my case less than the IF of my radio
[19:55] <kd0mto> Bingo, sorry it was an intelligence check.
[19:56] <kd0mto> Actually... all it does is measure where the frequency is odd.
[19:56] <Laurenceb> fairdoos
[19:56] <Laurenceb> hate to blow my own trumpet but i do understand fft
[19:56] <kd0mto> Yeah... I figured.
[19:56] <kd0mto> cos(wt) shows up only on the right side of the FFT.
[19:57] <Laurenceb> just not ubuntu
[19:57] <kd0mto> j*sin(wt) only shows up on the left side.
[19:57] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:57] <Laurenceb> fft allows complex inputs
[19:57] <kd0mto> Apperently not since it's not showing the left side.
[19:57] <Laurenceb> thats how come itll operate on my complex data
[19:58] <Laurenceb> its probably simpler to read the code
[19:59] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/GGKzNtnx
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[20:01] <Laurenceb> thats an ultra lame way to do it
[20:02] <kd0mto> yeah, no kidding.
[20:02] <Laurenceb> but it works so thats the first step
[20:02] <Laurenceb> next step is make it work properly
[20:03] <Laurenceb> but sinc rasampling in python is way to slow, so im rewriting it in c
[20:04] <Laurenceb> - resample to double the sample rate for both I and Q, then multiply by a complex local osc and take the real part (or just avoid calculating the imaginary part of the multiplication)
[20:05] <kd0mto> Dude, it's not python that's slow, it's your script.
[20:06] <kd0mto> I'll have to mess with it sometime, right now I need to bounce out to see if my appartment is still in one piece.
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[20:12] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: What do you need the serial port for so much?
[20:13] <Laurenceb> its connected to the micro
[20:13] <Laurenceb> thats acessing registers on my cc1020
[20:13] <kd0mto> Why don't you have a burst mode for talking to the micro?
[20:13] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:14] <kd0mto> That will allow for an increase performance by an order of a magnitude at least.
[20:14] <kd0mto> I doubt the FFT is a problem.
[20:14] <Laurenceb> why will the serial slow it down?
[20:15] <kd0mto> Start, stop bits, parity.
[20:15] <kd0mto> It's a known issue with python that you want to support burst modes.
[20:15] <kd0mto> If you rely on discrete write's you're screwed.
[20:15] <Laurenceb> hmmthat could be due to overhead calling the function
[20:15] Action: kd0mto nods
[20:15] <Laurenceb> i see
[20:16] <kd0mto> There has to be a built in burst mode.
[20:16] <Laurenceb> ok ill read a block of bytes from serial then
[20:16] <kd0mto> Also... 19200 kHz? That's a lot of data.
[20:16] <kd0mto> why so high?
[20:16] <Laurenceb> its the best i can achieve onboard the cc1020
[20:17] <Laurenceb> limiting the bandwidth
[20:17] <Laurenceb> - i can only limit the bandwidth to 9.6khz
[20:17] <kd0mto> This is audio right?
[20:17] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:17] <kd0mto> You don't need to sample at a 192kHz.
[20:17] <kd0mto> That bit rate will swamp any bus.
[20:18] <Laurenceb> erm 19200sps
[20:18] <Laurenceb> but yeah i want to increase it to 200ksps
[20:18] <kd0mto> There's no reason to.
[20:18] <Laurenceb> but id probably write a custom decoder if i did that
[20:18] <Laurenceb> - this is for RF data
[20:19] <Laurenceb> im just using a wav stream to pipe it into fldigi
[20:19] <kd0mto> Are you trying to make your own SDR?
[20:19] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:19] <kd0mto> Oh... you are in WAY above your head. The class I'm taking right now is all on this stuff in grad school. Make sure you do a lot of homework on sampling before you get into this stuff.
[20:21] <Laurenceb> dude its not that hard :P
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[20:22] <kd0mto> To make something you will want to use, yes it is
[20:22] <kd0mto> http://hackaday.com/2010/10/16/they-polyplasmic-archophone/#more-29369
[20:22] <kd0mto> holy crap, that can give you cancer.
[20:22] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/iGbPX.png
[20:22] <Laurenceb> thats some MFSK64 packets i recorded earlier
[20:22] <kd0mto> Cool
[20:23] <kd0mto> I need to revist some concepts for working on my packet modem.
[20:24] <kd0mto> I found a way to make a AFSK modem all on chip. Before I was pushing the hardware to much to be useful but now.. I learned some tricks.
[20:24] <kd0mto> Btw, you may actually want to consider making a polyphase filter system and down sample anything you need to do at lower frequencies to increase performance.
[20:25] <kd0mto> Err... I gotta jet. I might be on later.
[20:25] <kd0mto> g'luck
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[20:25] <Laurenceb> cya
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> good evening
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[00:00] --- Sun Oct 17 2010