highaltitude.log.20101015

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[02:09] <sp2222> hi
[02:09] <sp2222> do you guys know anything about SCRAMJETs?
[02:12] <sp2222> i made a computer simulation of the atmosphere, i want to simulate combustion for mach 12 flights
[02:15] <natrium42> not me, but sounds cool
[02:24] <juxta> hi all
[02:24] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: You have mixed phase simulation?
[02:25] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: with chemistry?
[02:25] <juxta> sp2222, my university has a scramjet program
[02:25] <sp2222> no, it just simulates helium ATOMS
[02:25] <sp2222> nothing too fancy, it simulates 200,000 particles
[02:26] <juxta> there was a launch a couple of weeks ago.. the telemetry/flight computer failed, it crashed hard into the desert, unsure if it achieved combustion :)
[02:26] <sp2222> i don't know how to simulate chemistry, i was thinking if an "O" molecule collides with an "H" molecule, it makes an "H2O" molecule and releases energy, I dont know how accurite it will be though
[02:26] <sp2222> didn't they reach mach 5?
[02:26] <SpeedEvil> Well - you need to - to simulate SCRAMjets with sensible fidelity theability to simulate liquid droplets, as well as chemical interactions.
[02:26] <juxta> I'm not sure sp2222
[02:26] <sp2222> liquid droplets play a role?
[02:26] <sp2222> that is too hard to simulate on a 2ghz machine, that requires quantum physics! liquids are hard!
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> The fuel is injected into the airstream as a liquid.
[02:27] <sp2222> i have an idea for a gas injecting "scramjet"
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> You're doing it wrong.
[02:27] <juxta> the UQ HyShot program launches from here too
[02:27] <sp2222> it injects the hydrogen as a hot gas
[02:27] <sp2222> wow!
[02:27] <sp2222> Go UQ !!
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> You don't simulate atoms.
[02:27] <SpeedEvil> You simulate voxels.
[02:27] <sp2222> I dont know how else to do it, with turbulence
[02:27] <Darkside> juxta: hai
[02:27] <sp2222> all the papers on that stuff require lots of money to read
[02:27] <juxta> hey Darkside
[02:28] <Darkside> sp2222: what paper
[02:28] <Darkside> give me a link, i can get some of htem for oyu
[02:28] <Darkside> you*
[02:28] <sp2222> all papers on fluid dynamics, all that stuff
[02:28] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_fluid_dynamics
[02:28] <sp2222> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1996ShWav...5..293Y
[02:28] <Darkside> i'm at uni, i have access to a shitload of academic journals
[02:28] <sp2222> do you have access to the link i just posted? i hate the way they want money, knowledge should be free
[02:28] <juxta> oh no
[02:28] <juxta> it just rained on my shoes again
[02:28] <juxta> damnit!
[02:28] <Darkside> sp2222: not sure
[02:29] <Darkside> if its somewhere else i might be able to get it
[02:29] <SpeedEvil> the wiki linked from there has _lots_ of free CFD code.
[02:29] <sp2222> does CFD work at hypersonic speeds?
[02:29] <sp2222> what about disassociation, EM fields altering the plasma, that stuff?
[02:29] <Darkside> sp2222: http://www.springerlink.com/content/25801r22466v7411/fulltext.pdf
[02:29] <sp2222> thats why i wanted to do it on a per atom basis
[02:29] <Darkside> doesn't that work for you?
[02:30] <Darkside> it does for me
[02:30] <sp2222> no
[02:30] <sp2222> it just sends me to a pag asking for money
[02:30] <sp2222> you university is great, i graduated already unfortunately
[02:30] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: yes, it does. You cannot simulate atoms. There are too many, you cannoy meaningfully simulate the applicable physics.
[02:30] <Darkside> sp2222: ill upload it somewhere
[02:30] <sp2222> thanks!
[02:31] <Darkside> anyone have a filebin or osmething?
[02:31] <Darkside> where i can upload a pdf file temprarily
[02:31] <juxta> Darkside, try isendr.com
[02:31] <juxta> it's p2p between users
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[02:31] <Darkside> sp2222: http://www.springerlink.com/content/25801r22466v7411/fulltext.pdf
[02:31] <Darkside> argh
[02:31] <Darkside> http://iSendr.com/SiuH
[02:31] <Darkside> sp2222: ^^
[02:31] <Darkside> go
[02:32] <sp2222> connecting to peer...
[02:32] <Darkside> it says sending on my end
[02:32] <sp2222> thanks, that will be a big help
[02:32] <Darkside> no probs
[02:32] <Darkside> it looks... interesting
[02:32] <Darkside> totally not my field :P
[02:32] <sp2222> i'm a software engineer
[02:32] <Darkside> my vector analysis lecturer was really into fluid dynamics, tried to get us to look at it
[02:33] <sp2222> was it a graduate course?
[02:33] <SpeedEvil> It looks from the abstract like you need a thourough grounding in CFD to understand it.
[02:33] <Darkside> nah, this is level 2 vector analysis
[02:33] <SpeedEvil> ah
[02:34] <sp2222> i've bought stacks of books on plasmas before, too advanced for me to read
[02:35] <sp2222> im in over my head. but simulating individual atoms i can DO, it works
[02:35] <sp2222> do you guys understand CFD? it's like integrating all these weird PDEs right?
[02:35] <SpeedEvil> It works - yes - ...
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[02:35] <SpeedEvil> But you can't meaningfully simulate large structures with single atoms.
[02:36] <sp2222> only tiny ones
[02:36] <SpeedEvil> CFD is in principle quite simple.
[02:36] <sp2222> i think i was down to 100 nm x 100 nm x 10 nm
[02:36] <sp2222> at 1atm
[02:36] <SpeedEvil> You start out with a grid of voxels.
[02:37] <sp2222> so does each voxel have a momentum or a distribution of momentums?
[02:37] <SpeedEvil> You then generate a new state from the initial state, based on each voxels interaction with the adjacent voxles.
[02:37] <sp2222> cool
[02:37] <Darkside> damn this is complex stuff
[02:37] <Darkside> next year will be fun for me.. passive radar!
[02:37] <Darkside> my current project supervisor wants me to continue the uni's passive radar project
[02:37] <SpeedEvil> For example, weather models might have for each parcel of air humidity, water dropplet size distribution, air velocity, air pressurem temperature, ...
[02:38] <sp2222> does passive radar work on very low frequencies?
[02:38] <Darkside> sp2222: this is operating at VHF
[02:38] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: passive over what freq?
[02:38] <Darkside> we're using local DAB broadcasts
[02:38] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: based on noise or b...
[02:38] <sp2222> hehe cool
[02:38] <SpeedEvil> ah
[02:38] <sp2222> does the earth radiate at 1-5 Hz?
[02:38] <sp2222> radar based on that might see stealh aircraft
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> Do you demodulate the DAB, and reconstruct a perfect single?
[02:39] <sp2222> i heard U.S. stealth aircraft can be seen by the holes they leave from cell phone tower transmissions in space
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> Signal
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> Stealth aircraft are not always very stealthy from bistatic radar.
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> They are designed to be - largely - invisible rto single-site radar.
[02:40] <SpeedEvil> Multiple site radar violartes some of the design optimisations.
[02:40] <sp2222> and passive radar is bistatic
[02:40] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: i have a lot of reading to do
[02:40] <SpeedEvil> Or multistatic.
[02:40] <Darkside> what i want to do is get our current system running, learning exactly how it works
[02:40] <SpeedEvil> You can have lots of transmitters.
[02:40] <Darkside> then going from there
[02:40] <Darkside> the idea is not to detect planes, but to look at weather
[02:40] <sp2222> hey darkside, is it possible to transmit information at high bandwidth at 1-5 Hz? why is it so sloooww to talk at low frequencies?
[02:41] <Darkside> you have a stationary radar 'target'
[02:41] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: no.
[02:41] <Darkside> sp2222: probably not
[02:41] <sp2222> i was thinking if you dont use a conventional transmitter it might be possible
[02:41] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: You can get several-a dozen or so bits/s/hz
[02:41] <sp2222> if you transmit all these EM waves out of phase
[02:41] <sp2222> speedevil: why so slow?
[02:41] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: more than that, and it doesn't work so well.
[02:41] <Darkside> anyway, you have a stationary radar target, which appears to have a very large apparent radar cross section, and you look at how it appears to move
[02:41] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: Ask Shannon.
[02:41] <sp2222> i have shannon's famous paper
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Walker
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> oops
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - not that, and that
[02:42] <sp2222> ?clauide shannon?
[02:42] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: nyquist too
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> yes
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> But shannons paper speaks directly on that suject.
[02:42] <SpeedEvil> It's SNR of the channel.
[02:42] <sp2222> hmm
[02:43] <sp2222> so if i somehow synthesize an electromagnetic wave, will it propagate if i don't complete the cycle?
[02:43] <sp2222> i mean not a whole sine wave
[02:43] <sp2222> if i just do 1/16th a sine wave
[02:43] <sp2222> won't that still propagate?
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> no.
[02:43] <sp2222> but how does nature KNOW i won't finish the cycle later on?
[02:43] <SpeedEvil> OR rather - yes - but it will not be in the bandwidth of 1-5hz
[02:43] <Darkside> sp2222: go speak to maxwell
[02:44] <Darkside> he'll know
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't.
[02:44] <sp2222> he's dead
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[02:44] <Darkside> hehe
[02:44] <Darkside> man, i love this channel
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> The other frequencies energy emerges when you stop outputting the sine.
[02:44] <Darkside> i realy do
[02:44] <Darkside> really*
[02:44] <sp2222> well
[02:44] <sp2222> i got to make an experiment
[02:44] <SpeedEvil> Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
[02:45] <sp2222> to try to send a 1Hz wave in 1ms
[02:45] <sp2222> a 1Hz-burst i mean, not a whole wave
[02:45] <SpeedEvil> If you have something resonating at 1Hz - you have to stop it
[02:45] <sp2222> can a DAC transmit radio waves?
[02:45] <SpeedEvil> Stopping it means you have to move it faster than 1hz
[02:45] <sp2222> that shouldn't be hard, speedevil
[02:46] <Darkside> sp2222: yes, my project does that :P
[02:46] <Darkside> i.e. broadcasting radio waes using a dac
[02:46] <Darkside> just generate a sine at a high frequency
[02:46] <sp2222> cool, what if i do it for 1/16th a second, and do a 1Hz wave?
[02:46] <Darkside> anyway, you can't just output part of a sine wave - you'll get harmonics up the wazoo
[02:46] <sp2222> really?
[02:46] <Darkside> well think about it
[02:47] <sp2222> a DAC can do it if connected to a speaker
[02:47] <Darkside> you take your output voltage from 0 to some point
[02:47] <Darkside> then stop at that point
[02:47] <Darkside> even if you just do a full cycle, there'll be harmonics (right SpeedEvil ?)
[02:47] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: A RF signal is the superposition of all of the frequencies present in the signal.
[02:47] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: Or can be viewed as thatr.
[02:47] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: we need a whiteboard
[02:48] <Darkside> like, an online whiteboard
[02:48] <sp2222> hehe
[02:48] <sp2222> i can draw what im trying to make
[02:48] <sp2222> the "16th sine wave"
[02:48] <sp2222> but we dont have a white board
[02:48] <sp2222> speedevil: are you telling me a sine wave HAS to be made of harmonics even if it's just part of such a wafve?
[02:48] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: If you have a 1Hz signal, and cut it off in the middle, then you have to - with the other frequencies - make up a 'negative' 1hz wave.
[02:48] <SpeedEvil> sp2222: that's one way of looking at it.
[02:48] <sp2222> i think it will only be out of phase, not "negative"
[02:49] <sp2222> but i could be wrong
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_transform
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> yes - out of phase is what I meant.
[02:49] <SpeedEvil> It's closing on 4AM here, and I should be asleep
[02:49] <sp2222> are you in australia?
[02:49] <Darkside> lol
[02:49] <sp2222> hyshot was an australian project
[02:50] <Darkside> i'm in australia
[02:50] <sp2222> i forget who said their university did that
[02:50] <Darkside> and its 1:18pm here
[02:50] <sp2222> sorry
[02:50] <sp2222> i got you confused
[02:50] <Darkside> oh hyshot was university of queensland
[02:50] <SpeedEvil> The frequencies you need to make a 1/16th sine will not only be that of 1Hz
[02:50] <SpeedEvil> I'm in the UK.
[02:50] <SpeedEvil> Scotland even.
[02:50] <sp2222> i see what you're saying speedevil
[02:50] <sp2222> there will be harmonics then, can i filter them out ?
[02:51] <sp2222> and only let out the big wavelength i wanted?
[02:51] <Darkside> yes, you could - but you wouldn't have just 1/16th of a sine wave
[02:51] <sp2222> i dont remember maxwell discussing fourier transforms
[02:51] <sp2222> his equations describe, i think, pure waves
[02:51] <SpeedEvil> you'd then just have a - reduced amplitude - sine wave at 1hz
[02:51] <sp2222> not waves made out of sujperimposed small waves
[02:51] <sp2222> i think you're talking about electronics, i'm talking about what happens in the air / space after it leaves the circuit
[02:52] <SpeedEvil> Pure waves in a medium where they superpose without interaction is the same as considering only one pure wave.
[02:52] <sp2222> OK here is an experiment: suppose I have a sine wave and I switch on a circuit to an inductor
[02:52] <sp2222> and another inductor receives the changing magnetic field
[02:53] <sp2222> and displays the current
[02:53] <sp2222> then i switch it off
[02:53] <sp2222> if it runs at 1Hz won't i have transmitted 1/16th a sine wave?
[02:53] <SpeedEvil> It depends what you mean.
[02:53] <SpeedEvil> Yes, if you put it on a scope, it will look like 1/16th of a sinewave.
[02:53] <sp2222> i am trying to send a 1Hz wave without a huge antenna
[02:53] <SpeedEvil> At 1Hz
[02:53] <sp2222> so was that an Electromagnetic wave? or just a magnetic one?
[02:54] <SpeedEvil> If however, you put it to a spectrum analyser, you will see a peak at 1hz, but also quite large ones at odd harmonics.
[02:54] <kd0fxp> errr...
[02:54] <SpeedEvil> All the way up to infinity - ideally.
[02:54] <kd0fxp> electricity + magnetics = electromagnetics
[02:54] <sp2222> right
[02:55] <sp2222> so i understand really low frequencies are not regulated
[02:55] <kd0fxp> the same properties govern both
[02:55] <sp2222> the harmonics will get me in trouble, they steal energy
[02:55] <sp2222> right?
[02:55] <sp2222> plus they're in regulated frequencies
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[02:55] <SpeedEvil> In a very real sense, the harmonics are no different from the 'real' signal.
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> If you filter them out, you get a nice 1Hz sinewave.
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> At a much lower amplitude.
[02:56] <sp2222> so harmonics are like noise? i thought they "were" the wave or something
[02:56] <sp2222> do i need a 3e8 meter antenna to receive a 1Hz wave?
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> The harmonics are what makes a signal nonsinusoidal.
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> It's not quite that bad.
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> Just nearly.
[02:57] <sp2222> hehe, surely an op amp with an antenna will pick up my 1hz transmission as "noise"
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> Also - IIRC - the earths ionosphere will shield all signals with wavelength under 6km
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> The key is can you efficienrly radiate it.
[02:58] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise you just get the near-field magnetic and electric reffects.
[02:58] <sp2222> not with an inductor, but what if i have two parallel plates making an electric field, and two inductors making a magnetic field
[02:58] <sp2222> there are cross field antennas, similar idea
[02:58] <SpeedEvil> You arenot going to magically invent an antenna for low frequencies in a few hours of thinking.
[02:59] <sp2222> right
[02:59] <SpeedEvil> Literally tens of thousands of man-years have been spent on this problem.
[02:59] <sp2222> other people are trying to transmit 3e8 m wavelength light waves?
[02:59] <sp2222> i thought it was just me
[03:00] <SpeedEvil> Exactly the same problem is found in FM transmitters in mobile phones, in submarine command networks, and ...
[03:00] <sp2222> my idea is as i charge the "capacitor" (two parallel plates), this makes a displacement current. if there's a static magnetic field, it might deflect the displacement current, leading to an E-M wave
[03:00] <SpeedEvil> Where it's desired to have an antenna that is much smaller than a wavelength.
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[03:00] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm really not up to trying to simulate EM in my head at this time of night.
[03:01] <sp2222> ok! search for cross field antenna in the morning
[03:02] <SpeedEvil> Yes, they are well studied, and do nothing surprising.
[03:02] <sp2222> hm
[03:03] <sp2222> so anyways, i want to simulate Combustion with chemistry in supersonic flows. in my atom simulation i can get 200,000 particles, which is a really small scramjet
[03:03] <sp2222> do you guys know why jet engines have to compress the air?
[03:03] <SpeedEvil> they don't.
[03:03] <sp2222> why do they then?
[03:03] <SpeedEvil> It's just that the fuel efficiency sucks if they don't.
[03:03] <sp2222> oh
[03:03] <sp2222> is that because of combustion rates?
[03:04] <sp2222> so i'm wondering, if you have a jet engine already traveling at say mach 2, maybe you don't need to decelerate the air to subsonic speed as in a ramjet to compress it
[03:04] <SpeedEvil> No.
[03:04] <SpeedEvil> It's um.
[03:05] <sp2222> maybe instead you can accelerate the fuel to mach 2, to match the incoming air speed, and let a subsonic combustion happen as it races through the engine
[03:05] <SpeedEvil> It's due to carnot.
[03:05] <sp2222> i understand 1-Tc/Th
[03:05] <sp2222> I don't understand where the pressures fit in
[03:06] <SpeedEvil> http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/214026/ looks good
[03:07] <sp2222> maybe it has to do with density of air
[03:07] <sp2222> that site says you get more work out of it at higher pressures
[03:08] <sp2222> mass flow rate of air times velocity = thrust which determines work out
[03:08] <sp2222> but compressing a supersonic flow will lead to high drag, i want to avoid it
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> Going to sleep - good luck. I expect your working scramjet in the morning. Wave!
[03:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
[03:11] <sp2222> gnight
[03:11] <sp2222> =) that will be my sonic boom
[03:13] <SpeedEvil> Only sonic boom I heard was the last flight of concorde as it went past edinburgh.
[03:14] <sp2222> damn
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[03:26] <sp2222> bye everyone
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[03:35] <shenki> Darkside: i may have joked about google earth on baloons, but atleast it's not as silly as kites: http://m.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/kite-power-changes-face-of-google-earth-20101014-16kjb.html
[03:38] <Darkside> lol
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[06:59] <m1x10> hello astronauts
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[07:06] <kd0mto> hey juxta
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[07:48] <Laurenceb> looks like my graphics card is no longer supported in 10.04 :(
[07:49] <Laurenceb> oddly it works ok from the live cd
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[07:50] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: The update broke my graphics as well. The kernel update killed the driver so I had to recompile it
[07:51] <kd0mto> It works fine, you just need to do some work. Don't fret!
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[07:53] <Laurenceb> eek
[07:53] <Laurenceb> heh i can only run at low res atm - look like it defaulted to the open driver
[07:53] <Laurenceb> oddly the live cd graphics is fine
[07:54] <kd0mto> That's not surprising because they have a driver compiled on the disk ready to go.
[07:54] <Laurenceb> but not in the installation?!
[07:55] <Laurenceb> #ubuntu say i need to switch it to VESA mode
[07:55] Action: Laurenceb doesnt know what any of this means
[07:55] <kd0mto> .... don't listen to them
[07:56] <Laurenceb> heh
[07:56] <kd0mto> Dude.. what do you mean it's not in the installation?
[07:56] <Laurenceb> well its using an OSS driver atm
[07:56] <Laurenceb> hence the lack of widescreen support
[07:56] <Laurenceb> - widesceen monitor
[07:57] <kd0mto> yeah
[07:57] <kd0mto> Well, you need to blow out your old driver.
[07:57] <Laurenceb> bu tlive cd the graphics was fine
[07:57] <kd0mto> Just go to hardware, uninstall it, the reinstall it.
[07:57] <juxta> hey kd0mto
[07:58] <Laurenceb> theres nothing appearing under hardware
[07:58] <Laurenceb> anyways i need to get to work, fun times ahead
[07:58] <kd0mto> later
[07:58] <kd0mto> I need to keep on studying for my test tomorrow.
[07:58] <Laurenceb> "no proprietory drivers in use"
[07:58] <kd0mto> juxta: DSP classes suck
[07:58] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: Then download and compile.
[07:59] <Laurenceb> where from?
[07:59] <Laurenceb> atu ended support
[07:59] <juxta> heh
[07:59] <Laurenceb> *ati
[07:59] <juxta> ironing sucks more, i'd better go finish it off :(
[07:59] <Laurenceb> really gtg, cya
[07:59] <Laurenceb> tnks for help
[08:10] <kd0mto> Laurenceb: There are always legacy drivers. You just need to find it and recompile.
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[08:36] <m1x10> anyone knows how to open a file under windows in byte level?
[08:41] <juxta> m1x10, a hex editor?
[08:46] <earthshine> Any launches coming up ?
[08:50] <kd0mto> earthshine: Our next one is slated to be in November.
[08:50] <m1x10> juxta right
[08:50] <juxta> earthshine, hopefully next weekend
[08:50] <kd0mto> The lab is confident on a launch but... there is a lot of work to do so I'm not seeing it.
[08:51] <m1x10> juxta, allright that was the right keyword to search
[08:51] <juxta> excellent :)
[08:51] <m1x10> I used some retarted keywords on google and wasnt returning something good
[08:51] <m1x10> :)
[08:58] <earthshine> cool
[08:59] <earthshine> about the launches - not you being retarded
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[09:08] <GW8RAK> Isn't BT Broadband great. I ask a question and then it decides to terminate the connection.
[09:09] <GW8RAK> Anyway. Morning. Hopefully someone on here can help. Does anyone know of a piece of software I can use to remotely "press" the PTT on a radio via the internet please?
[09:10] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: What are you talking about. Echolink?
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[09:11] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: Are you talking about Echolink
[09:11] <kd0mto> ?
[09:12] <GW8RAK_> Not really. I'm doing some radio training with the cadet forces and using Skype for the audio link, I just want to press the PTT to transmit the Skype audio. Would echolink allow this?
[09:12] <kd0mto> Oh... you need a physical switch.
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[09:13] <kd0mto> For an ethernet connection to do what you're thinking. I'm thinking what you want is most likely a JFET or a MOSFET with an Arduino hooked up to an ethernet shield.
[09:13] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[09:13] <GW8RAK> Yes. If I can control one of the serial port lines on the remote PC, I can use that to "press" the PTT
[09:14] <kd0mto> You're thinking way to complex.
[09:14] <GW8RAK> I'm all ears
[09:14] <kd0mto> For about $40 to $50 in hardware and some canned python code, you can accomplish all of what you want very easily.
[09:14] <kd0mto> Unless someone else has a better idea.
[09:16] <kd0mto> I can't focus too much time on this. But let me see if I can find some parts.
[09:16] <GW8RAK> Amateur radio control software such as Ham Radio Deluxe switches the remote serial port line and I just thought this would be an easy software task.
[09:17] <kd0mto> Oh.. if want to use HRD and are comfortable with that then that's a bit easier.
[09:17] <kd0mto> Connect this to serial http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardUno
[09:18] <GW8RAK> Unfortunately, the radio isn't supported by HRD, otherwise it would be working already. I just want the same functionality, but with a Motorola.
[09:18] <kd0mto> Then that will drive a MOSFET or JFET off of a digital IO that runs the switch.
[09:18] <kd0mto> Done.
[09:18] <GW8RAK> Thanks for that. I'll have a read.
[09:19] <kd0mto> I personally am not a fan of the Arduino, but it's a great intro to microcontrollers and can make a newbie do some amazing things with little to now experience.
[09:20] <GW8RAK> I've been playing with the Picaxe chips for some time and they are quite fun and easy to use.
[09:20] <Darkside> kd0mto: what motorola radio?
[09:20] <GW8RAK> GP300 IIIRC.
[09:20] Action: kd0mto directs Darkside to GW8RAK
[09:20] <Darkside> mm
[09:20] <Darkside> i've automated a GM950 before
[09:20] <Darkside> the IO lines were useful
[09:21] <Darkside> i never got carreir detect working, but there was a RSSI line thati just fed into the ADCs on my arduino
[09:21] <GW8RAK> This is a dumb handheld.
[09:21] <Darkside> and i could tell if i had a signal from that
[09:21] <Darkside> ahh
[09:21] <Darkside> yeah that harder
[09:21] <Darkside> you can wire into the PTT, that kind of thing
[09:21] <GW8RAK> I don't think I need carrier detect.
[09:21] <Darkside> if theres a LED to signify a valid recieved signal, use that
[09:21] <Darkside> is this just for telemetry?
[09:22] <GW8RAK> I'll be able to hear the via the Skype link
[09:22] <GW8RAK> "the audio via"
[09:23] <GW8RAK> I've also got a Philips PRM80 which could be used, but that is also dumb.
[09:23] <GW8RAK> Ideally, I just want a piece of software which will turn a line on the remote serial port on.
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[09:26] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: I have what you need done in python for the most part.
[09:26] <GW8RAK> When people mention python, I get worried. Sorry, not a programmer.
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[09:27] <GW8RAK> What does it need to run/operate?
[09:27] <kd0mto> you download python (my stuff needs 2.6 or 2.7) and you double click on my script.
[09:27] <kd0mto> Done.
[09:28] <kd0mto> You push a button, it sends a command.
[09:28] <GW8RAK> Even I can understand that.
[09:28] <GW8RAK> Sounds ideal
[09:28] <kd0mto> Yeah.... and with some basic arduino code you can have this whole button pushing thing working without ever talking to a computer.
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[09:30] <kd0mto> If you add this to the arduino, all you need to push the button from a computer just sit down, run the python script, and an ethernet cable to this http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoEthernetShield
[09:30] <GW8RAK> Just reading about Python. I actually got the 2nd line before it lost me.
[09:30] <kd0mto> Dude, it's not hard.
[09:30] <kd0mto> Plus, I think have my code posted online some where so if you just copy and paste it'll work.
[09:31] <GW8RAK> Sorry, back in 5 minutes. Work calling.
[09:31] <kd0mto> I'm studying..... so...
[09:31] Action: Laurenceb_ is generally pissed off by ati
[09:32] <Laurenceb_> seems they just want my to buy a new machine
[09:32] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: You're being irrational.
[09:32] <kd0mto> And giving up way to quickly.
[09:33] <Laurenceb_> heh
[09:33] <kd0mto> You can play with kalman filters but you're pissed about Ubuntu? Really dude, that's a bit strange.
[09:33] <Laurenceb_> these things just annoy me massively
[09:33] <kd0mto> I don't blame you.
[09:33] <Laurenceb_> i want to be doing proper work not pissing about with ATIs mess
[09:33] <kd0mto> It killed me on virtual box too, but then I just sucked it up and dealt with it.
[09:34] <Laurenceb_> so what were you saying about recompiling?
[09:35] <GW8RAK> kd0mto: Sorry about that. With your script it only runs on a local machine and uses an ethernet to arduino shield for the remote switching?
[09:35] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: Right, otherwise you need another program on a the remote machine which tends to lead to more headaches. If you're going to make have use of this you might as well get the hardware.
[09:36] <Laurenceb_> iirc you said that i should try recompiling the driver for 10.04?
[09:36] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: Linux drivers never go out style, you should be able to rebuild your libraries with the new kernel and fix your driver issue.
[09:36] <GW8RAK> Okay, I think I may not have explained myself enough earlier. The need for the remote switching is that I'm 20miles away from the radio.
[09:36] <kd0mto> Is there network to that radio?
[09:36] <GW8RAK> I can use Skype for the audio, but it is just the remote PTT function I'm after.
[09:37] <kd0mto> Right....
[09:37] <GW8RAK> We have the internet at each end.
[09:37] <Laurenceb_> kd0mto: the driver source is non free
[09:37] <kd0mto> Ok... that's all you need then.
[09:37] <Laurenceb_> ATI ended support for the card
[09:37] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: Ending support means no more future developement, it's frozen as is which means you get the source and compile.
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> kd0mto: but the source was never avaliable aiui
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> it was binary only
[09:39] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: I did something with microchip that allowed us to move a 42ft satalite dish 20 miles a way for satalite tracking and communication via ethernet. I'm sure a switch shouldn't be that hard.
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> ATI compile and make the binary avaliable
[09:39] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: What video card?
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> ati radeon express 1100
[09:39] <kd0mto> Give the model.
[09:40] <GW8RAK> kd0mto: and I'm sure the switch shouldn't be hard. But it's hard finding a solution.
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> ubuntu 10.04lts has befaulted to the oss driver, but its not detecting the non standard screen resolution - its a widescreen
[09:41] <kd0mto> GW8RAK: Do you feel comfortable openeing the radio and soldering? Or do you want to physically push the button?
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> the odd thing is that the live CD works correctly
[09:41] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: I found 4 open source drivers done by third parties.
[09:42] <GW8RAK> I'm happy to open the radio. I understand analogue. (Sorry about two simultaneous conversations)
[09:42] <kd0mto> ..... it's not odd Laurenceb_
[09:42] <kd0mto> I'm used to it GW8RAK, I'm studying for my digital signal processing test in 5 hours as well.
[09:42] Action: kd0mto is going to make great friends with coffee tomorrow.
[09:43] <GW8RAK> Good luck with your test.
[09:43] <kd0mto> Thanks.
[09:43] <GW8RAK> If all else fails, I'll use skype to tell one of the remote cadets to press the PTT manually :-)
[09:43] <kd0mto> Anyway, GW8RAK, arduino + ethernet shield + download python.
[09:44] <GW8RAK> Thanks for your help, I'll look into it.
[09:44] <kd0mto> The digital IO will use a FET of some kind that you can replace the button with.
[09:44] <kd0mto> If you need help with Python, stop by here or #sscl on this server and ask around. I'm not terribly difficult to find :)
[09:44] <Laurenceb_> kd0mto: so, why do you thing the screen works at the correct resolution with the live CD?
[09:45] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: Because, they are probably using a third party driver that is compiled already. So with how much complaining you have done you could have fixed your problem by now.
[09:45] <Laurenceb_> he fairdoos
[09:46] <kd0mto> Ok... from what I'm reading it's now part of xorg.
[09:46] <kd0mto> In either case, you must remove what ever you had before.
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm i guess maybe the OSS driver might not be being used or something
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> theres some errors on startup that may be caused by it trying to use the older proprietory driver i had installed
[09:54] <Laurenceb_> not sure if that could happen...
[09:55] <kd0mto> See.... delete that and Ubuntu will most likely take care of the rest.
[09:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah ill try this evening
[09:57] <kd0mto> Laurenceb_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=517225
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> yes i think this may well be the problem - 3D acceleration worked properly with the live CD as well, so the card must be operable with the OSS driver
[09:59] Action: kd0mto nods
[10:00] <kd0mto> Honestly, it doesn't take that long to do.
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[10:12] <m1x10> fsphil, I dont know but when I take QVGA shots they are ok, when I take VGA those corrupted lines in the end appear/
[10:12] <m1x10> all default settings
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[11:11] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: this is a jpeg camera?
[11:33] <m1x10> yes SpeedEvil
[11:34] <m1x10> how can i do mirc to flash when my nick is written?
[11:38] <Darkside> highlight
[11:38] <Darkside> it will be somewhere
[11:38] <stefan> in options Alt+O
[11:38] <stefan> flash in mirc terms means to flash in the task bar afaik
[11:38] <m1x10> yes i found it but it doesnt have "highlight on nick"
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> Are you perhaps having problems with overly long compressed lines?
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> For example - if the compressed line exceeds 256 bytes
[11:39] <m1x10> SpeedEvil, talking to me?
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:39] <m1x10> well
[11:39] <m1x10> i dont know
[11:39] <m1x10> everything is at default settings
[11:40] <m1x10> vga gets corrupted, qvga is ok
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> How are you reading it?
[11:40] <m1x10> Im saving it in an microSD
[11:40] <m1x10> uart at 38400
[11:40] <m1x10> serial1.read()
[11:40] <m1x10> and file.write()
[11:41] <m1x10> default compression is 36%.
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> what does the corruption look like?
[11:41] <m1x10> but changing it didnt give much diff
[11:41] <m1x10> wait to send you screenshot
[11:46] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118606
[11:48] <m1x10> whole mirc no highlight on nickname
[11:49] Action: m1x10 wonders why he havent already put his beautiful slackware on his desktop machine
[11:52] <m1x10> SpeedEvil: thats my setup: http://imagebin.org/118607
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> My first suggestion wiuld be more decoupling
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> though I'm unsure that's relevant.
[11:58] <m1x10> what exactly yo decouple?
[11:58] <m1x10> yo/to
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> across the power rails.
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm mosrtly asleep - gathered random wood fromthrougout the gardem and piled neatly into a 4m^3 stack.
[12:00] <m1x10> :)
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> For values of neatly that are defined as 'won't fall over'.
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[12:37] <fsphil> m1x10, it's possible that writing to the sd card is taking too long, and you might be loosing some bytes from the camera
[12:42] <m1x10> that is possible to detect if i know the original size and substract the size on the sd
[12:42] <m1x10> I will do that later, thx for the thought
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006sz6t Inrteresting program on logistics, with the manager of RS and others.
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[14:40] <Laurenceb_> hi
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> hki
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> http://www.kjmagnetics.com/
[14:48] Action: Laurenceb_ likes
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> especially the STEP files
[14:52] <Laurenceb_> i need to try BRL-CAD
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> apparently you can use it for electromanetic modelling
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[15:00] <Laurenceb_> how do i find out what process is using the administration directory?
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[15:02] <DanielRichman> o/s?
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> ubuntu
[15:03] <DanielRichman> lsof?
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> wow
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[15:07] <DanielRichman> +grep, you may have to run lsof as root to get full output
[15:08] <DanielRichman> bbl
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah got it thanks
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[16:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron <phil@sanslogic.co.uk> "Re: Balloon Launches this weekend - or not"
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[16:03] Nick change: epictetu1 -> epicetus
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[16:41] <wasutton31> does anyone know much about welding?
[16:42] <jan_bangna> a bit
[16:43] <jan_bangna> so not much :)
[16:43] <wasutton31> im trying to weld a 304 stainless flange onto cold rolled steel. will this work and if so, how big of a pain will it be?
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[17:31] <SpeedEvil> wasutton31: I don't know - I vaguely recall that welding stainless is horribly, horribly complex.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> wasutton31: Do you just want it to sort-of-stick - or will it be loaded/temperature cycled.
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[17:48] <wasutton31> SpeedEvil: It is being attached to a vacuum chamber that will eventually be temerature cycled to simulate the conditions of space.
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[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Then you need someone with an actual clue.
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[17:52] <wasutton31> awesome . thanks
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> As there may be significant stresses due to thermal effects - stainless and CRS have a bit different expansion - and porosity is also an issue
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> I need to read up on this myself, as I want to construct a few l 10MPa 250C pressure vessel.
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[17:57] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:57] <Laurenceb> audio playback should be under file in fldigi right?
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[18:05] <DanielRichman> File->Audio->Playback, yes
[18:07] <Laurenceb> or not as the case may be on my machine
[18:07] <DanielRichman> compiled yourself?
[18:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:08] <Laurenceb> ill try the repo fldigi
[18:08] <DanielRichman> ./configure -- check the summary at the end
[18:08] <DanielRichman> it may have failed to find a library
[18:08] <Laurenceb> need to remove the old one first, where does it live?
[18:08] <DanielRichman> old what?
[18:08] <Laurenceb> ill remove and reinstall from the repository
[18:08] <Laurenceb> the fldigi i built from source
[18:09] <DanielRichman> did you make install?
[18:09] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:09] <DanielRichman> make uninstall?
[18:09] <Laurenceb> iirc i deleted everything in the source folder
[18:09] <DanielRichman> failing that, updatedb.mlocate && locate fldigi
[18:09] <DanielRichman> locate flarq
[18:09] <DanielRichman> etc
[18:10] <Laurenceb> thanks
[18:12] <DanielRichman> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[18:16] <fsphil> you might need libsndfile for that?
[18:16] <DanielRichman> just apt-get build-dep
[18:16] <DanielRichman> ;but note: You may want to make a note of the packages that you've just installed incase you want to clean up and purge them later. apt-get build-dep will not mark packages as automatically-installed so you will not be able to easily remove them by simply un-installing the fldigi package from step one!
[18:20] <Laurenceb> ok wiped everything and used the one from the repository worked
[18:20] <Laurenceb> no dl-fldigi at the moment tho
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[18:30] <m1x10> hi :)
[18:30] <m1x10> fsphil, is that you HADIE ? tommorow?
[18:31] <fsphil> not now, too close to the water
[18:31] <m1x10> can u plz post the link to prediction software? Im on another pc.
[18:32] <fsphil> http://www.habhub.org/predict
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[18:45] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/rARNA8un any idea what could be causing that?
[18:46] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/Mxwp9BFB
[18:46] <Laurenceb> thats the code
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[19:17] <Laurenceb> looks like the python wave module wont talk to fifos :(
[19:18] <Laurenceb> i can save a wav and replay it in fldigi later
[19:18] <Laurenceb> cant stream them to it - python wave module doesnt like the file io
[19:18] <Laurenceb> is there a clever way to solve this with temporary files or something...
[19:20] <DanielRichman> yes Laurenceb that'd be my guess; the wave library is hoping to seek around the output file
[19:20] <DanielRichman> makes sense I guess since it has to write a header after knowing hwo much data there will be
[19:21] <Laurenceb> guess i need to read about the wav file format
[19:22] <DanielRichman> I don't know how complex .wav format is or what fldigi will do when it expects an EOF
[19:22] <Laurenceb> i can see rf data in fldigi waterfall tho
[19:22] <DanielRichman> i.e. you could output many small wav files
[19:22] <Laurenceb> need to adjust the "volume" to a sensible level
[19:23] <Laurenceb> hopefully i can set the frame number to something stupidly large
[19:23] <Laurenceb> then just chuck data in
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[19:24] <Laurenceb> acording to wikipedia thatd work for about 12 hours of streaming at my sample rate
[19:26] <DanielRichman> sounds good
[19:28] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "New project with Autopilot."
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[19:49] <Laurenceb> of course i could just use rawwrite
[19:49] <Laurenceb> <retarded
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[19:58] <MrCraig> hi all
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[19:59] <fsphil> hiya MrCraig
[19:59] <MrCraig> heya fsphil - how did the launch go last week?
[19:59] <fsphil> it didn't :)
[19:59] <MrCraig> oh? bad news?
[20:00] <fsphil> no helium last weekend, and splashy landing this weekend
[20:00] <MrCraig> aw :-(
[20:00] <natrium42> recruit juxta to swim and retrieve it
[20:00] <fsphil> will try again!
[20:00] <fsphil> lol
[20:01] <MrCraig> I had similar luck too, I managed to break down in the midlands
[20:01] <MrCraig> Garage advised me to replace the clutch but I didn't have the dough at the time
[20:01] <fsphil> there are worse places to break down
[20:01] <MrCraig> hehe - and I've broken down in all of them. Though to be fair, not in this car until now and was my own fault
[20:02] <MrCraig> I did however get the 7" touch screen installed in the dash, and a control panel installed that looks like something out of star trek
[20:03] <fsphil> ooh nice
[20:03] <fsphil> what's it do?
[20:04] <MrCraig> well at this moment, it lights up and sais "no signal" because I made a wiring mistake and blew out the eeepc that was gonna be installed behind the dash - but I bought a replacement eeepc (cheap on ebay because it had a faulty screen, but I have the spare from the one I wrecked and it's going to be connected to the dash anyway)
[20:05] <MrCraig> it has audio inputs on the dash panel so I'm going to use it (among other things) for reading the output of my radio and decoding data
[20:05] <fsphil> aah that's a good use for old eeepcs
[20:06] <MrCraig> yup :-) The replacement is a slightly newer model, with a gig of ram and the 1.6 Atom cpu - so it makes a reasonable media station too - but I'm most keen to hook up gps tracking and use it as a chase car
[20:10] <fsphil> how do you power it?
[20:10] <MrCraig> I cheated
[20:11] <MrCraig> I didn't want to wrigg circuits myself, so I bought two lighter socket devices with suitable output - and given that the control panel takes the place that the lighter socket used to, I took that out - removed plugs from the adaptors and soldered it all together
[20:12] <MrCraig> Wired the output of those through switches in the control panel so I can isolate them, and fed them from the accessory line
[20:14] <MrCraig> I've done this once before using an inverter - but the noise generated in the audio system was intollerable and had to be filtered out. This way the DC is clean
[20:15] <MrCraig> forwarded output of the pc through a variable resistor into the amp too, so I have volume on the cp
[20:15] <MrCraig> oh and two USB ports in my dash hehe :)
[20:17] <fsphil> nice
[20:18] <MrCraig> yeah - the whole setup is worth more than the car of course - but it's a fun project
[20:18] <MrCraig> Payload is next
[20:18] <MrCraig> After I wire up the cnc milling machine which arrived from china with no motor cables!
[20:22] <MrCraig> so this weekend is predicted to be splash landing - what will you do for another date?
[20:22] <MrCraig> I mean, can you just try again next week?
[20:22] <fsphil> my notam only lasts until this weekend, so I'll need to reapply
[20:22] <MrCraig> suckage :-/
[20:23] <fsphil> yep - last sunday was ideal
[20:23] <fsphil> my own fault for not getting the helium earlier
[20:23] <MrCraig> I suspected you already had some on hand
[20:24] <MrCraig> What are prices like on the stuff now? My understanding was that it just goes up and up
[20:24] <MrCraig> if only hydrogen weren't so scarey.
[20:24] <fsphil> I was quoted £70 + vat for 3.6m3
[20:25] <fsphil> very tempted to try hydrogen
[20:25] <MrCraig> so that's about £70 to fill one typically sized balloon?
[20:25] <fsphil> the ascent calculator was saying I'd need about 2.6m3
[20:26] <fsphil> a smaller balloon would probably have worked better
[20:27] <MrCraig> How heavy (or rather light) is the payload then? I have some numbers on lifting 5lbs at 160ft^3
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[20:28] <fsphil> mine is about 600g
[20:29] <MrCraig> hmm, my numbers are whaay off then - because you'd need almost 6 times the helium
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[20:32] <fsphil> actually just put it all on the scales, it's about 400g
[20:32] <MrCraig> 0.8 lbs
[20:34] <fsphil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[20:34] <fsphil> been using this to work it out
[20:35] <MrCraig> well I trust you, and the calculator to be getting it right - my numbers are massively out I think... but then the source for my numbers was -- erm -- questionable. It was mythbusters when they did a helium raft
[20:36] <MrCraig> it's a relief to me :-P
[20:36] <fsphil> I'm not sure where the data for the calculator came from, but we used it on the last flight and it seemed to fit reality :)
[20:37] <MrCraig> :-)
[20:37] <MrCraig> I'll reverse engineer it and keep a copy on hand
[20:37] <MrCraig> :-P
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[20:45] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood <john@jcu.me.uk> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[20:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Henry Fletcher <hmlfletcher@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[22:43] <griffonbot> Received email: matt.beddow@gmail.com "RE: New project with Autopilot."
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[22:52] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[23:04] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[23:05] <Laurenceb> sounds interesting
[23:13] <griffonbot> Received email: "Dr. Cornelius" <sp2432@googlemail.com> "Re: New project with Autopilot."
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[23:51] <stilldavid> w/r/t the autopilot, will it work with just an accelerometer?
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[23:54] <canisnow_> is this channel muted?
[23:54] <stilldavid> canisnow_, nope.
[23:55] <canisnow_> cool in that case, for all you newbies out there I have a riddle for you, /part and /quit are on a boat, /part jumps off who is left?
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 16 2010