highaltitude.log.20101014

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[04:16] <Darkside> w00t i has a square wave
[04:16] <Darkside> schmitt triggers ftw
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[06:29] <earthshine> morning
[06:34] <kd0mto> early morning
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[07:40] <m1x10> good morning
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[09:00] <m1x10> everybody back:)
[09:00] <Darkside> heh
[09:07] <m1x10> Atmega644P is big
[09:13] <fsphil> the yea, though the tqfp version is really tiny
[09:13] <fsphil> -the
[09:14] <m1x10> right
[09:14] <m1x10> DIP is huge
[09:15] <m1x10> i got my sparkfun order today
[09:15] <m1x10> they have sent me 2 gyros instead of 1 :):)
[09:16] <fsphil> maybe they know you're going to break one? ;)
[09:16] <m1x10> lol
[09:18] <m1x10> fsphil I need to make a new breadboard cicruit to test the cam with 644
[09:18] <Darkside> hmm
[09:18] <Darkside> whats rquired for a fully working ardupilot system?
[09:18] <m1x10> i have to plug the cam to the uart0 of 644.
[09:18] <m1x10> NSS will not work good at high speeds
[09:18] <fsphil> m1x10, that's what I did - uart0 for camera, uart1 for gps
[09:18] <m1x10> so I need a real horse :)
[09:18] <m1x10> ah
[09:18] <m1x10> and how u program it?
[09:18] <m1x10> im gonna use uart1 to just the programmer
[09:18] <fsphil> I have a little usb avr programmer, from sparkfun actually
[09:18] <m1x10> works with arduino?
[09:19] <fsphil> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8702
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[09:20] <fsphil> it's or programming avr directly, probably not for arduino
[09:20] <fsphil> though I@m sure it could be made to
[09:20] <fsphil> or=not
[09:20] <fsphil> er, or=for
[09:20] <fsphil> sheesh, I forgot my brain today
[09:21] <m1x10> :P
[09:21] <m1x10> where is that programmer gets wired to mcu ?
[09:24] <fsphil> it uses spi plus a few other pins
[09:25] <fsphil> they're normally put into a little 3x2 header called the ISP header
[09:28] <m1x10> ah have seen that
[09:28] Action: m1x10 needs to learn some other avr ide
[09:28] <DanielRichman> ~7n9
[09:31] <DanielRichman> The arduino has an ISP header
[09:31] <DanielRichman> but it's easier to just use the bootloader
[09:31] <DanielRichman> and the usb is faster too
[09:32] <fsphil> yea, I'd be worried about over-writing the bootloader and killing it
[09:33] <m1x10> my atmega644 has something called sanguino bootloader :(
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[09:43] <DanielRichman> you can reflash the bootloader but you have to mess with the fuses
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[10:58] <m1x10> cool, 644 is up and running :)
[10:59] <m1x10> fsphil, it takes a while to bootup. is like that?
[10:59] <fsphil> Instant here, but I don't have a bootloader
[11:00] <m1x10> mhh
[11:00] <m1x10> 22p for crystal right?
[11:00] <m1x10> right:)
[11:03] <fsphil> none here :) but I don't know why it works, possibly some capacitance in the breadboard tracks
[11:06] <fsphil> what speed are you running it at?
[11:23] <m1x10> 16mhz
[11:33] <m1x10> mhhhh
[11:33] <m1x10> it takes 5secs to boot
[11:33] <m1x10> strange
[11:34] <m1x10> maybe that sanguino bootloader
[11:36] <fsphil> probably
[11:38] <m1x10> that cam's pin spacing is not 2.54mm
[11:38] <m1x10> its smaller and i cant fit the headers
[11:38] <m1x10> count 1st drawback
[11:38] <m1x10> :
[11:38] <m1x10> :p
[11:42] <m1x10> lol
[11:42] <m1x10> "he is not our father, he is our sperm doner"
[11:42] <fsphil> the c328 came with a plug :)
[11:42] <m1x10> oh
[11:43] <fsphil> you can probably just solder the wires onto the camera, then a header on the other end
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[11:48] <m1x10> its too close
[11:49] <m1x10> pfff
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[12:49] <fsphil> still too close to the wet stuff: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=39cbe44abe27ac3c05697379bb942000bed56a77
[12:52] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:52] <jonsowman> that is a bit close
[12:52] <fsphil> the direction just before burst means it all depends on the time of burst too
[12:53] <jonsowman> yeh
[12:53] <fsphil> 33km is probably optimistic, but knowing my luck ... ;-)
[12:53] <jonsowman> 30k is much nicer
[12:53] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=22e54dd724a56bfda83d257ff7fe9077aca53176
[12:54] <fsphil> yea that's a fair safety margin
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[12:55] <fsphil> this is where the cut-down would come in handy
[12:55] <jonsowman> mm
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[12:56] <jonsowman> you could just overfill to bring the burst alt down
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[12:59] <fsphil> it would need quite a bit more I think
[13:00] <fsphil> calculator says 5.31 m3 for burst at 28k, 600g payload and 1000g balloon
[13:01] <fsphil> I should have got a smaller balloon!
[13:01] <jonsowman> hehe
[13:03] <fsphil> it's annoying .. after all the hassle to get the notam, I'm going to end up not using it
[13:03] <jonsowman> :(
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> hi all
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7sdHzY3xFA
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[13:29] <juxta> hey fsphil
[13:31] <fsphil> hiya juxta, how's things?
[13:31] <juxta> good good
[13:31] <fsphil> did you record the repeater on that last flight?
[13:32] <juxta> I was just going to mention that if you wanted to burst early without adding more helium, you can always use a helium/air mix
[13:32] <fsphil> oooh
[13:32] <juxta> we had the recording setup fsphil, but ended up not flying the repeater, we had an issue during filling which left us short on lift (lost some helium)
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[13:32] <fsphil> ah remember that now
[13:33] <fsphil> good idea with the air mix
[13:33] <juxta> probably good though, otherwise it would have ended up in the ocean :)
[13:34] <juxta> will definitley record in a couple of weeks - there's a big ham radio thing on here, we'll fly a talk through cross band repeater for public use and get the word out as much as possible
[13:34] <Darkside> juxta: what ham thing?
[13:34] <juxta> national field day
[13:34] <Darkside> ooh
[13:34] <fsphil> sweet
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[13:35] <juxta> hmm, actually
[13:35] <juxta> that's next weekend
[13:35] <juxta> haha
[13:35] <Darkside> lol
[13:35] <juxta> we need to build the thing first
[13:35] <juxta> flight computer seems to have survived darkside
[13:35] <Darkside> cool
[13:35] <juxta> stripped it down and cleaned it all up today
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> http://spacefellowship.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10511&sid=0709d7cf52065c6b0b30ab939d937ee0 <- looooooooooool
[13:35] <Darkside> mine ahs been working all day :P
[13:36] <juxta> & put another coat of lacquer on
[13:36] <Darkside> juxta: yeah, i resoldered all my joints last night
[13:37] <Darkside> and today i wired in all the switchmode supplies
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[13:44] <juxta> oh nice, do they work ok Darkside?
[13:45] <Darkside> yep
[13:45] <Darkside> we had a look inside, theres a little switchmdoe IC they're using
[13:46] <Darkside> the ICs cost about $6 - so the price dimension eng charge is about right
[13:54] <juxta> Laurenceb_, jeez
[13:54] <juxta> have had a read of a few pages, he can't seem to be told anything!
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[14:09] <Laurenceb_> hes kind of making a good point
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> very badly
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> but yes armadillo seem to be wasting their time
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[14:38] <m1x10> i have been trying to solder the camera pins
[14:38] <m1x10> 2 hours 1 pin
[14:38] <m1x10> its impossible to solder the rest
[14:38] <m1x10> its close and get in touch
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[15:00] <fsphil> you might need a sharper solderinnnnnnnng tip
[15:00] <fsphil> oops, key stutter
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[15:38] <m1x10> fsphil, dunoo
[15:39] <m1x10> im just full of nerves. I got the camera and I cant work it because of stupid japanese pins
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[16:06] <griffonbot> @nearsys: I'm launching a near spacecraft with Washburn U this Saturday. Indian Hills Elementary, 8 AM. 85,000 feet? Topeka. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/27354627746]
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[16:23] <johnnyfif> NGEN
[16:35] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
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[17:38] <m1x10> fsphil, there?
[17:43] <fsphil> m1x10, yep sorta
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[17:51] <m1x10> ok nothing
[17:51] <m1x10> :)
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[18:26] <m1x10> fsphil
[18:27] <m1x10> got first pic
[18:27] <m1x10> :P
[18:27] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:27] <m1x10> hi
[18:28] <jcoxon> fsphil, have you seen todays float predictions?
[18:29] <fsphil> I saw them this-morning jcoxon, they're looking excellent
[18:30] <fsphil> m1x10, ooooh you got it soldered? how's the quality?
[18:30] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:31] <fsphil> even better now, a few of those 20km cut right through scotland
[18:31] <jcoxon> just started running this evenings one
[18:31] <jcoxon> also i've got my SPoT
[18:32] <fsphil> is it working?
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[18:33] <jcoxon> eek it wants lithiums
[18:33] <fsphil> eek indeed .. they actually require it?
[18:35] <m1x10> fsphil, I tried again and I burned 3 fingers but eventually I did it. Now Im testing various parameters resolution/compression.
[18:35] <m1x10> first image was monocrhome
[18:35] <m1x10> dunnno way
[18:35] <m1x10> why*
[18:36] <fsphil> first images can sometimes be a bit odd, takes the camera sensor a few frames to settle down
[18:36] <m1x10> Now I put it with 0% compression 640x480
[18:36] <m1x10> first image was 12kb
[18:36] <m1x10> lol
[18:37] <fsphil> 8 minutes at 300 baud ;-)
[18:37] <m1x10> lol
[18:37] <m1x10> ok 2nd image 48kb
[18:38] <Laurenceb> this is the pfe serial camera module?
[18:38] <Laurenceb> *sfe
[18:38] <fsphil> different one
[18:38] <m1x10> ok
[18:38] <Laurenceb> i see
[18:38] <m1x10> image is sharp
[18:38] Action: Laurenceb is on ubuntu 10.10
[18:38] <m1x10> i got some errors
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[18:39] <Laurenceb> freaking awesome graphics
[18:39] <m1x10> but looks sharp
[18:39] <natrium42> who, me?
[18:39] <fsphil> m1x10, can you upload a couple
[18:39] <Laurenceb> imgur some images?
[18:39] <m1x10> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/118507
[18:39] <Laurenceb> why are the window controls on the lhs ?!
[18:40] <Laurenceb> niceeeee ... well until the bottom
[18:40] <fsphil> Laurenceb, eep, they've been bitten by a steve jobs?
[18:40] <jcoxon> fsphil, it turns on
[18:40] <Laurenceb> its very osx ish
[18:40] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:40] <fsphil> lol jcoxon
[18:40] <m1x10> fsphil, what do u think?
[18:40] <fsphil> m1x10, that's very good for indoors
[18:41] <Laurenceb> in fact it looks like an ifail
[18:41] <m1x10> but no color !
[18:41] <natrium42> what's going on?
[18:41] <jcoxon> fsphil, need to get teh details to login to the website to see if it actually works
[18:41] <m1x10> hi engaged man!
[18:41] <natrium42> o/
[18:41] <DanielRichman> They've been on the LHS since 10.04
[18:41] <fsphil> m1x10, point it at something with a bit of colour
[18:41] <m1x10> yeah
[18:41] <jcoxon> really looking forward to hacking it up
[18:41] <jcoxon> natrium42, i've got a SPoT
[18:41] <Laurenceb> no dirty photos now :P
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Congrats?
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: Have you tried squeezing it?
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:42] <fsphil> jcoxon, I wonder if we should fly it as a test before the real thing?
[18:42] <jcoxon> with my nifty cool flight computer
[18:42] <jcoxon> probably
[18:42] <natrium42> jcoxon: cool, spot 2?
[18:42] <jcoxon> no 1
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Does the default spot report altitude - I forget.
[18:42] <jcoxon> so that i can hack it
[18:42] <natrium42> ah, cool :D
[18:43] <jcoxon> cause its going on a long duration floater
[18:43] <jcoxon> with my new flight computer:
[18:43] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5078206941/in/set-72157625156630612/
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> Nice.
[18:44] <natrium42> awexome!
[18:45] <m1x10> mhhhh
[18:46] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118509
[18:46] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[18:46] <fsphil> sweet
[18:46] <fsphil> wonder where the corruption is coming from
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Mordor!
[18:48] <fsphil> pesky orks
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Or the house of commons.
[18:48] <fsphil> pesky orks
[18:48] <fsphil> or oiks in that case
[18:51] <natrium42> jcoxon: when are you planning to launch?
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[19:00] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118511
[19:00] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118512
[19:01] <fsphil> colour!
[19:01] <m1x10> :p
[19:01] <m1x10> but what is that noise?
[19:01] <fsphil> definitely much better in low light than the sparkfun
[19:01] <fsphil> you might not be reading fast enough, missing bytes?
[19:01] <m1x10> there is also fog here
[19:01] <m1x10> its raining
[19:02] <m1x10> default uart is 38400
[19:02] <m1x10> but the 1st image was clean
[19:02] <fsphil> it was also a lot smaller
[19:02] <m1x10> its was 320x180
[19:02] <m1x10> with 36% compression
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[19:18] <m1x10> I have a small brown capacitor showing 22, I suppose it means 22p, right?
[19:22] <jonsowman> maybe
[19:22] <jonsowman> it just says "22" ?
[19:22] <jonsowman> that's unusual
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[19:23] <m1x10> i put a couple of them for the crystal
[19:37] <DanielRichman> all of my tiny/ceramic caps say random things on them totally unrelated to their value (as far as I can see)
[19:37] <DanielRichman> then again I could be Doing It Wrong
[19:50] <Upu> I have those and yes its 22pF
[19:50] <m1x10> I should put them on the microscope to see what exactly is written there
[19:52] <fsphil> yea I've noticed the same DanielRichman, small parts labels are gibberish
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[19:54] <m1x10> DanielRichman, Upu, jonsowman: http://imagebin.org/118518
[19:58] <Upu> yep
[19:58] <Upu> 22pF
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[20:03] <m1x10> hm
[20:04] <m1x10> some forums gave other results about 22 underlined
[20:05] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8571
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[20:36] <jcoxon> fsphil, its even better now
[20:37] <jcoxon> the float map that is
[20:38] <fsphil> the one at Fri 15/Oct/2010 01:00:00 -- right down the middle
[20:38] <fsphil> 20km
[20:39] <jcoxon> would be awsome
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[20:41] <fsphil> late launch though, could catch the sun too early
[20:41] <jcoxon> indeed
[20:41] <fsphil> can you put a marker on the prediction line where sunrise happens?
[20:42] <jcoxon> well we know that it can happen
[20:42] <jcoxon> could try
[20:42] <jcoxon> would have to play with the predictor code
[20:42] <jcoxon> right will bbl
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[20:50] <Laurenceb> hmm sunrise is fairly nontrivial to do properly
[20:50] <Laurenceb> theres probably some very nice code out there somewhere
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> How properly?
[20:50] <Laurenceb> also altitude effects sunrise
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> As does atmosphere.
[20:51] <Laurenceb> well yeah we dont need it that good
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> I mean lensing near the ground.
[20:51] <Laurenceb> i just saw a bird tracker on tv that used a photodiode and rtc to calculate position
[20:51] <Laurenceb> very clever
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> neat
[20:52] <Laurenceb> phase or time offset + daylenght gives latitude and longitude
[20:53] <Laurenceb> lasts for a few years off a coil cell.. i bet you could use a supercap and solar cell
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> umm...
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> daylength would seem to be a very weak correlation
[20:54] <Laurenceb> with latitude
[20:54] <fsphil> Laurenceb, I read about those being used to track swifts -- was that the same one?
[20:54] <Laurenceb> quite strong
[20:54] <Laurenceb> it was for nightingales
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[20:55] <Laurenceb> just a program on bbc one
[20:55] <fsphil> must iplayer that later
[20:55] <Laurenceb> showed about 10 seconds of the actual pcb
[20:55] <Laurenceb> but it used a coil cell
[20:55] <fsphil> yea they never show the good bits
[20:55] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:56] <fsphil> bbc should do another Rough Science series, or something like it
[20:57] <fsphil> there was a very neat two-stage balloon on that once
[20:58] <Laurenceb> we should do a mini MIR balloon
[20:58] <Laurenceb> its not totally impossible to hand make a ~10m diameter envelope, and the concept is fairly forgivving on leaks
[20:59] <Laurenceb> would be a fun long duration float attempt
[20:59] <Laurenceb> CNES have published loads on their work
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> I want to try a superpressure foil balloon.
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> For a long duration floater.
[21:00] <Laurenceb> its mad
[21:00] <Laurenceb> foil is about the worst material you could choose
[21:00] Action: SpeedEvil is craaaaaaaaaaazy!
[21:00] <Laurenceb> how do you store and deploy it?
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> I was intending to manufacture and release on site, and also quite small.
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> Only aimed at a test hitting 10km or so.
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> This will of course mean it gets killed due to weather.
[21:01] <Laurenceb> mylar superpressure is easier
[21:02] <Laurenceb> but still very hard to get right
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[21:02] <Laurenceb> MIR is easy to make but needs to be big
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> very
[21:02] <Laurenceb> im still not 100% sure how bg, 10m definately works
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> well - quite
[21:03] <Laurenceb> you might be able to go a bit smaller
[21:03] <Laurenceb> i doubt <5m would work
[21:03] <Laurenceb> diameter
[21:03] <Laurenceb> i suspect you can improve the IR collect design a lot
[21:04] <Laurenceb> the CNES envelope was built to be made on their existing envelope seaming setup
[21:04] <Laurenceb> i cant find a good database of polymer properties tho :(
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> Foil was interesting to me, as it's got really quite good UV resistance, and I have a pile in the kitchen.
[21:04] <Laurenceb> to help with designing the collector
[21:05] <Laurenceb> need IR absorbition databases for mylar, polythene, nylon film etc
[21:05] <Laurenceb> along with tensile strenght, creem vrs temperature
[21:05] <Laurenceb> *creap
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> OR some samples, and an IR rthermometer.
[21:06] <Laurenceb> yes i could probably negotiate the use of one of those
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> They are handy.
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> I need to fix mine - I dropped it, and it fell apartr.
[21:06] <Laurenceb> oh sorry i was thinking fourier IR spectrometer
[21:06] <Laurenceb> heh you confused me there for a moment
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Those are not 20 quid on ebay. :)
[21:07] <Laurenceb> room size M£
[21:07] <Laurenceb> i worked over the summer commissioning one a few years ago :D
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> But yes - if one si lying around, it's quite quik tests.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Also stuff like coating with organic.
[21:08] <Laurenceb> yeah theres loads of things you could try
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> It'd benice if there was an easy way to modulate IR emissivity
[21:09] <Laurenceb> transparent polythene envelope with aluminised mylar stretched across the middle seemed to work well when i did the numbers
[21:09] <Laurenceb> aluminium side up
[21:10] <Laurenceb> i found absorption data for mylar and it looked like just the film of 10um thickness or so would absorb most incoming IR
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> A quick hack wuld be to see if an IR thermometer could 'see' through it
[21:11] <Laurenceb> with the CNES design the top outer surface is heated, so it loses much more heat to the ambient air
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> PE windows are used in them.
[21:11] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:12] <Laurenceb> but they chose the design as it was a quick and easy matter to swap the polythene top half of the envelope for aluminised mylar
[21:12] <Laurenceb> they have a huge enevelope production room with all the seaming kit setup and lots of well trained workers
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> huge rooms are great.
[21:13] <Laurenceb> i saw a photo of the JAXA envelope fab they used for the 56km altitude record
[21:13] <Laurenceb> it fits on a desk :P
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> With a 200m table behind it?
[21:14] <Laurenceb> reel to reel with altomated heat seamer and cutter.. not sure how they actually make all the seams and cuts
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> oh - neat
[21:14] <Laurenceb> its 100% automated
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was thinking of that too.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> If you make it like \/\/\/\/
[21:14] <Laurenceb> i dont get how to do it.. maybe the last seam is dont be hand or something
[21:14] <Laurenceb> *done
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> then you can just weld another side on
[21:14] <Laurenceb> oh yeah i guess
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> and then when you finish - extend the last one to lap over, and join it to the first
[21:15] <Laurenceb> and if you fold the two sides back on them selves
[21:15] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> So you have a monster cylinder.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> The end is messy, but...
[21:15] <Laurenceb> oh the jaxa rig had a reinforcing gore tape feeder as well
[21:16] <Laurenceb> laptop plugged intot he side to load in envelope designs :D
[21:17] <Laurenceb> yeah i think ends and filling hoses were added by hand later
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> awesome/
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> I bet that took several failures at best.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> And heaploads of swearing.
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[21:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:42] <Laurenceb> cusf took ages to get heat seaming working unreliably
[21:43] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[21:44] <Laurenceb> iirc they used 4um polythene
[21:44] <Laurenceb> interestingly polythene has a "grain" depending on how its blown
[21:45] <Laurenceb> nasa tried laminated polythene for envelopes
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[21:46] <Laurenceb> i think the qinentiq manned altitude attempt failed due to stress along the wrong axis of the polythene film during inflation
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> What's the manned altitude?
[21:47] <Laurenceb> iirc still hte 1960s record
[21:47] <jcoxon> back
[21:47] <Laurenceb> wikipedia
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Stupid internets - I'm on my backup ATM.
[21:48] Action: Laurenceb thinks ubuntu looks too much like osx now
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[22:12] <fsphil> jcoxon, polygon intersection works - need a polygon of the scotish coast now :)
[22:12] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/polyinter.ogv
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[22:13] <jcoxon> oooo moving graphics
[22:13] <fsphil> aye, though a good test would be to draw it
[22:14] <jcoxon> problem with my spot
[22:14] <jcoxon> might have to return it
[22:14] <fsphil> noooo
[22:14] <fsphil> what's up?
[22:14] <jcoxon> as there is a massive bill on the account
[22:14] <jcoxon> 300 euros
[22:14] <jcoxon> i'm not going to pay for it (might as well get a new one!)
[22:14] <fsphil> be cheaper
[22:15] <fsphil> that's mad, is there something like a sim card?
[22:15] <jcoxon> just sent a message
[22:15] <jcoxon> i don't like being mean but thats ridiculous
[22:15] <jcoxon> sure its not in my name but i'm not going to take responsibility for it
[22:16] <jcoxon> by having the device
[22:17] <fsphil> I wonder if spot the company could be convinced to setup a new account
[22:17] <jcoxon> doubt it with the outstanding bill
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Where did you buy?
[22:17] <jcoxon> off ebay
[22:18] <jcoxon> thinking that the account would be clear
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:18] <jcoxon> and then i'd change the details and set up a new subscription
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> how do you get a bill on the account?
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> press 999 a lot?
[22:19] <jcoxon> no one has paid the subscription i think for 2 years
[22:19] <jcoxon> i think the seller got it 2nd hand off someone else
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[22:26] <jcoxon> a new spot 2 with a contract is cheaper then 300 euros
[22:26] <fsphil> can the mk2 be hacked as easily?
[22:27] <jcoxon> probably not
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Have you pinged spot, explaining the situation, and asking?
[22:28] <jcoxon> not yet
[22:28] <jcoxon> guess its worth a try
[22:29] <fsphil> it's a old debt so they might .. it's worth more to them now to get a new subscription
[22:30] Nick change: kd0mto -> DagoRed
[22:30] <jcoxon> my big fear is that as its third hand i can't get them to cancel it
[22:31] <jcoxon> http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=1700
[22:32] <jcoxon> If you would like to transfer any of your SPOT units to someone else, please contact customer service. Once Customer Service has removed the SPOT unit from your account, the new recipient of the unit can register the unit.
[22:33] <Laurenceb> theres some good polygon code on the wiki
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