highaltitude.log.20101012

[00:04] Jasperw (~jasperw@93.89.81.29) joined #highaltitude.
[00:06] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[00:11] <jonsowman> juxta: caching should be working on the predictor now
[00:12] <juxta> heya jonsowman
[00:12] <jonsowman> hi
[00:12] <juxta> good work - what was the problem?
[00:12] <jonsowman> no idea. NOAA issue I reckon
[00:13] <juxta> fair enough
[00:13] <juxta> we were having some issues pulling data the other day when the balloon was going up
[00:14] <juxta> we got the asc rate wrong so there was some hair pulling as the GFS data seemed to be constantly corrupt ;p
[00:14] <jonsowman> has been a bit dodgy recently
[00:14] <jonsowman> predictor doesnt like asc rates below 2m/s
[00:14] <jonsowman> sometimes
[00:14] <jonsowman> due to a bug that I half understand... and will fix soon
[00:15] <juxta> ahh
[00:15] <juxta> that might have been it then
[00:16] <Darkside> hey all
[00:17] <juxta> hey Darkside
[00:19] <Darkside> i wonder what the Vne of my parkzone radian is
[00:19] <jonsowman> i'm off, bbl
[00:20] <juxta> only one way to find out
[00:20] <juxta> :D
[00:21] <Darkside> yeah - put it in the uni's wind tunnel :)
[00:21] <Darkside> :P
[00:25] Zuph (~Zuph@lutz310-02.loutz.louisville.edu) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[00:32] <Darkside> hmm
[00:32] <Darkside> anyone know of a good higher-rate GPS that works?
[00:33] <Darkside> the Venus 10Hz ones apparently are 50/50 of working
[00:33] <Darkside> my friend bought one, and it wouldn't ever get lock
[00:33] <juxta> a lot of the cheaper high rate modules are extrapolated
[00:33] <Darkside> :/
[00:33] <Darkside> 4Hz is probably enough for me
[00:33] <Darkside> can't the ublox's do that anyway?
[00:33] <juxta> yep
[00:33] <Darkside> hmm, i might be able to reprogram my GPS then
[00:33] <juxta> I think Laurenceb might be the guy to ask
[00:34] <Darkside> ok
[00:34] <Darkside> i want to try and make a live glider viewer thing
[00:34] <Darkside> dunno what the best way to do that would be
[00:34] <juxta> you mean like first person view?
[00:34] <Darkside> nah
[00:34] <Darkside> just to show where it is
[00:34] <juxta> oh right, telemetry
[00:35] <Darkside> could use either UHF or bluetooth, since its going to be so close
[00:35] <Darkside> but i think UHF will be better
[00:35] <Darkside> also: keep on bugging grant to get a working 23cm ATV solution going
[00:35] <Darkside> like - seriously
[00:35] <Darkside> i can get a small camera for it
[00:36] <Darkside> then we can have live video from the balloon
[00:36] <juxta> yeah
[00:36] <juxta> i think he said he has some gear
[00:36] <juxta> otherwise I was going to get somethig like this
[00:36] <juxta> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=13443
[00:37] <Darkside> i'd trust the amateur receivers more :P
[00:37] <juxta> yeah true that
[00:37] <Darkside> someone will have a proper helical antenna set up too
[00:38] <Darkside> and i'm sure someone has a proper tracking mount for one too
[00:38] <Darkside> make it track the payload based on GPS telemetry :)
[00:38] <juxta> yeah
[00:38] <juxta> I got an email from a ham in VIC who'd like to fly a packet radio relay
[00:38] <Darkside> heh
[00:38] <Darkside> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13052
[00:38] <Darkside> you could embed that in teh side of the box easily
[00:39] <shenki> Darkside: what's Vne mean?
[00:39] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@jsmac.student.iastate.edu) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[00:40] <Darkside> velocity do-not-exceed
[00:40] <Darkside> i.e. the speed at which the wings rip off
[00:40] <shenki> heh
[00:40] <Darkside> so to measure it, i'll probably have to destroy a glider
[00:40] <shenki> ok
[00:40] <juxta> it probably won't be capable of maintaing stable flight at those speeds anyway
[00:40] <shenki> why do you needthis info?
[00:42] <Darkside> shenki: because it will get fracking windy up there
[00:44] <Darkside> and the forces on the glider will be immense
[00:44] <Darkside> making a turn while going 500 knots? you'll snap my radian in half
[00:45] <shenki> ok, so you needit to understand how it should be piloted?
[00:45] <Darkside> somewhat, yes
[00:45] <Darkside> you'd have to program it to try an not to faster than that speed
[00:45] <Darkside> though i dont think it will have much of a choice
[00:46] <Darkside> the last guys who tried this made their own glider, with a wood frame that coudl handle *75* Gs
[00:46] <Darkside> 75Gs!!!
[00:46] <Darkside> i mean, holy shit
[00:46] <Darkside> that would kill a human
[00:47] <Darkside> no idea if it would actually need to handle that much force - again, you'd want an absolute shit-ton of sensors in the thing when you fly it
[00:47] <Darkside> basically every single senor you can find you'd want in this thing
[00:47] <Darkside> record an absolute shit-ton of data
[00:47] <shenki> you dont want any more than your cpu can process before it's stale data
[00:48] <Darkside> nah i mean for transmitting
[00:48] <Darkside> and logging
[00:48] <shenki> ok
[00:48] <Darkside> so you have a record afterwards of what it had to deal with
[00:48] <shenki> Darkside: you at uni? where?
[00:48] <Darkside> seriously making this thing auto pilot would be an awesome project
[00:48] <Darkside> shenki: not yet
[00:49] <shenki> Darkside: it would be a good fyp :)
[00:49] <Darkside> like, making it thermal up as high as it can go, program in a preffered landing site, but with other alternate sites
[00:49] <shenki> get gabe to do it
[00:49] <Darkside> this is more than a FYP
[00:49] <Darkside> this is more of a research project
[00:49] <Darkside> hmm
[00:49] <Darkside> might write a proposal
[00:49] <shenki> what research is there? sounds like just engineering tome
[00:49] <Darkside> first step: make a model glider handle thermals
[00:50] <Darkside> heh
[00:50] <Darkside> you'd learn a lot from it
[00:50] <Darkside> i dunno
[00:50] <shenki> yeah
[00:50] <shenki> it would be fun
[00:50] <Darkside> even the autopilot stuff would be interesting
[00:50] <Darkside> you'd be able to add a shitload to ardupilot with it
[00:51] <Darkside> in particular tailoring ardupilot for model gliders
[00:52] <Darkside> i'd like to be able to make a model glider that you throw in the air, and it makes use of thermals to reach a destination
[00:52] <Darkside> working out where thermals are willbe a challenge - that much need some human input, as a vision system on a glider is going to be a bitch
[00:52] <Darkside> i.e. a human can click on a map where they think thermals may be, and teh glider chooses the location it thinks it can get to to try and get thermals
[00:53] <Darkside> uses the thermal to gain height, then proceeds to its destination
[00:54] <Darkside> you'd need a model glider with aerlions
[00:54] <Darkside> ailerions
[00:54] <Darkside> argh
[00:56] kd0fxp (~Christoph@ics174-52.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:56] <Darkside> theres been a paper on mapping thermals using UAVs
[00:56] <Darkside> http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.springerlink.com%2Findex%2Fc814h387w3w772vl.pdf&ei=-LGzTLuPCMG3cPHJ_bAI&usg=AFQjCNHtv66AmpYzwNKPwB_Eq7Q0-C7CUg
[00:58] <Darkside> http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/page.php?page=Results
[00:58] <Darkside> these guys have done it ,kind of
[00:58] <Darkside> theres detects thermals somehow
[00:59] <Darkside> someone designed a kalman filter to find the centre of a thermal
[00:59] <Darkside> hot damn
[01:00] <Darkside> anyuway, back later
[01:11] Zuph (~Zuph@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) joined #highaltitude.
[01:15] TraumaPwny (~TraumaPon@203-214-112-135.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[01:15] Nick change: TraumaPwny -> TraumaPony
[01:35] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-198.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:42] Nick change: DagoRed -> kd0mto
[01:44] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@173-26-191-251.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[02:46] <kd0mto> It's too quiet around here. Somebody need to lauch a giant rubber chicken with a GPS tracking unit
[03:14] Jasperw (~jasperw@93.89.81.29) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[03:37] jasonb (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[03:39] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:46] kd0fxp (~WhiteNois@ics174-52.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:48] <Darkside> kd0mto: we can do that
[03:48] <kd0mto> :)
[03:49] <kd0mto> Darkside: Use a cut down system next time.
[03:49] <Darkside> yes..
[03:49] <Darkside> juxta has one
[03:49] <kd0mto> I figured.
[03:49] Nick change: kd0mto -> DagoRed
[04:14] kd0fxp (~WhiteNois@ics174-52.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[04:15] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-198.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[04:22] Zuph (~Zuph@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[05:09] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:29] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-198.icsincorporated.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:53] TraumaPony (~TraumaPon@203-214-112-135.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[05:57] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:12] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[06:14] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[06:28] DagoRed (~dago@ics129-198.icsincorporated.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[06:54] stefan (stefan@crucial.stefan.id.au) left irc: Changing host
[06:54] stefan (stefan@unaffiliated/stefan) joined #highaltitude.
[07:11] <juxta> ping earthshine
[07:11] <earthshine> hi
[07:11] <juxta> heya Mike
[07:11] <juxta> wasnt sure if you'd be up, it's a bit early over there, isnt it?
[07:11] <earthshine> 8am
[07:12] <juxta> oh right, summer time I guess
[07:12] <earthshine> till end of oct yeah
[07:12] <juxta> was going to see what happened with that FSA03 module in the end
[07:13] <earthshine> yeah - what a saga
[07:13] <earthshine> Would you believe I a still chasing them? Terrible customer service
[07:14] <earthshine> In fact I got a reply yesterday from some new lady called Victoria
[07:14] <juxta> oh, how annoying
[07:14] <earthshine> apparently the delay was due to someone leaving - what a bunch of twats
[07:14] <earthshine> someone leaves the company and the rest of it goes to pot
[07:14] <earthshine> anyway she says she is dealing with it personally so I will chase again today
[07:15] <juxta> awesome, thanks for chasing it up :)
[07:15] <juxta> after my parload took a dip in the ocean the other day I'll need to build a new one, hehe
[07:16] <earthshine> Was everything ruined on it ?
[07:16] <juxta> hmm, most, yeah ;p
[07:16] <earthshine> what a bummer
[07:17] <juxta> ah well
[07:17] <juxta> recovered by swimming
[07:18] <earthshine> so i heard
[07:18] <juxta> Darkside's HF telemetry payload was onboard and that survived I believe
[07:18] <earthshine> well i'll keep pestering them daily till they send me the replacement
[07:19] <juxta> cheers, let me know how it goes :)
[07:20] <earthshine> sure will
[07:24] <Darkside> juxta: it survived, but i'm rebuilding it
[07:24] <Darkside> and i've decided to use the AD9834 for all future board, as its a shitload better
[07:25] <juxta> what was on this one?
[07:25] <Darkside> ad9835
[07:25] <Darkside> ad9834 can do some more interesting stuff
[07:25] <juxta> oh right - what else does it do?
[07:26] <Darkside> and i can drive a class E amp directly from it, as it can produce a square wave output
[07:28] <juxta> what does the chip put out by itself?
[07:31] <Darkside> sine
[07:31] <Darkside> same as the ad9835
[07:31] <Darkside> but it can do more stuff
[07:31] <juxta> oh no i meant power wise
[07:31] <Darkside> eh?
[07:31] <Darkside> it has about the same power requirements at the ad9835
[07:32] <Darkside> and outputs about the same voltage levels on teh sine output
[07:32] <juxta> how much RF power does it output?
[07:32] <juxta> 1mW?
[07:32] <juxta> less?
[07:32] <Darkside> about 1mW
[07:32] <Darkside> not enough to use
[07:32] <juxta> ah righto
[07:34] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-126-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #highaltitude.
[07:48] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210132203.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[07:55] <juxta> Darkside, just testing my board now, it may not be a throwaway after all
[07:55] <juxta> it got GPS lock in less than 60 secs despite not having a backup battery
[07:58] slothearn (~euclid@pool-98-111-116-30.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Excess Flood
[07:58] <Darkside> cool juxta
[07:58] slothearn (~euclid@pool-98-111-116-30.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:59] <Darkside> i'm just nutting out how i'm going to hook up my AD9834 to my xmega
[07:59] <juxta> not on a breakout?
[07:59] <Darkside> well, i made a breakout a while ago
[07:59] <Darkside> just working on wiring that up
[08:00] <Darkside> but i'd like to make a proper board for it
[08:01] <jerry507_mac> What clock are you running into it?
[08:01] <Darkside> the AD9834?
[08:01] <Darkside> 50MHz
[08:02] <jerry507_mac> You have the clock and most stuff on the breakout?
[08:02] <Darkside> yep
[08:02] <Darkside> everything is on the breakout board
[08:02] <Darkside> its a very dodgy board tho
[08:02] <Darkside> i need to completely re-do it
[08:03] <jerry507_mac> I'm trying to get around to making a dds board too
[08:03] <Darkside> well you can have the designs for mine once yi'm done
[08:03] <jerry507_mac> I just don't have the money to get it fabricated...
[08:03] <Darkside> it will be in altium designer format tho
[08:03] <Darkside> heh i just do mine at uni
[08:03] <jerry507_mac> Blech
[08:04] <jerry507_mac> Oh, you can get stuff printed there?
[08:04] <Darkside> lol
[08:04] <Darkside> altium ftw
[08:04] <Darkside> i can get stuff milled here :P
[08:04] <jerry507_mac> We have a pcb mill somewhere but it's not for general use
[08:05] <jerry507_mac> I can just send off to batchpcb anyway though
[08:05] <Darkside> heh
[08:06] <Darkside> this is part of my final year project, so i can make a lot of PCBs if i want
[08:06] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-126-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) left irc: Quit: jan_bangna
[08:06] <jerry507_mac> Nice
[08:06] <jerry507_mac> We were not nearly as lucky for our final year project :(
[08:06] <Darkside> :(
[08:06] <jerry507_mac> Or for microwave circuits
[08:06] <jerry507_mac> They only had one guy to run the mill and he was a student
[08:07] <Darkside> damn
[08:07] <Darkside> at our uni we have a guy who does it full time
[08:07] <jerry507_mac> So it was ONE board and if you wanted to change it you had to cut it yourself
[08:07] <Darkside> since he gets a lot of orders through
[08:07] <jerry507_mac> Nice
[08:07] <jerry507_mac> Where do you go?
[08:07] <Darkside> ?
[08:08] <jerry507_mac> Uni
[08:08] <Darkside> yes
[08:08] <Darkside> adelaide uni, south australia
[08:08] <jerry507_mac> Ahh, far away from here :)
[08:09] <jerry507_mac> Iowa State University myself
[08:37] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-126-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #highaltitude.
[08:39] slothearn (~euclid@pool-98-111-116-30.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: leaving
[08:59] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[09:06] <jan_bangna> has this been tried already? instead of sending a styro box up with a balloon you take a clear PET bottle (water or coke bottle). now it won't be insulated , but right behind the plastic layer you put some black paper or cardboard. the idea is that the radiation from the sun is much stronger when you rise up. So it should heat up the paper like a small solar panel and compensate the lost heat. wonder if thats possible and
[09:06] <jan_bangna> the solar radiation would deliver enough energy to keep the temperature at a lever thats okay.
[09:11] <earthshine> I have a sneaky suspicion at that altitude that black body radiation would come into effect
[09:12] <earthshine> and in fact cool it down not heat it up
[09:57] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[10:17] Laurenceb_ (~Laurenceb@server.nowhere-else.org) joined #highaltitude.
[10:17] <Laurenceb_> hi
[10:19] <jan_bangna> earthshine, yes i thought it's not that simple. thanks for the input
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Interesting in principle though.
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> the equalisation temeprature of something in low earth orbit is ~0C
[10:23] <m1x10> hi
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> primarily as you have this massive radiator at 0C or so filling half the sky
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> hio
[10:24] <russss> yeah I don't think you have so many problems with things getting too cold when they're at altitude. They just tend to get cold before they get there.
[10:26] <m1x10> SpeedEvil: as I said last night, problem was that the both tx/rx radios are very close too each other. I have put them in different rooms and I managed to get some aprs messages decoded. But it isnt that stable. I mean it decodes once at a random time. What can I do on transmitter or receiver so I can get something more stable?
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: Your rx and tx are on the same frequency?
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> What are you using for encoding and decoding?
[10:31] <m1x10> yes both at 144.8mhz
[10:31] <m1x10> let me show you its like
[10:32] <m1x10> data-->ax25 Frame-->afsk modulate-->radio tx at 144.8
[10:32] <m1x10> receiver: radio rx at 144.8-->afsk demodulate-->ax25 frame decoder-->data
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a scope?
[10:33] <m1x10> nop
[10:33] <m1x10> I need to buy one sometime.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> You really do.
[10:34] <m1x10> yep
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> My next suggestion would be to hook a soundcard up to the rx and tx.
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> google xoscope if you're on linux, and 'xoscope hardware'
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> though I think there is a awindows version
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> the rx and tx before the demodulator
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> err
[10:35] <m1x10> I used mixW to demodulate afsk from soundcard.
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> before and after teh modulator/demodulator
[10:35] <SpeedEvil> and see if the afsk looks sane
[10:36] <m1x10> mixW was demodulating the signal and returned the aprs messages.
[10:37] <m1x10> i had the receiver hooked in my soundcard
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> Do you get the messages coming out cleanly if you connect to the tx input?
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> before the mod
[10:38] <m1x10> on the transmitter side ?
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> See if you have a noncorrupt signal that can reliably be demofulated before the transmitter
[10:39] <m1x10> yes, my messages are getting decoded from aprs.fi, which means transmitter is ok
[10:40] <m1x10> see for yourself: http://aprs.fi/?c=status&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=5
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> I can't open that website, as that would mean bothering to click on it.
[10:41] <m1x10> sorry?
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> I would suggest you may be overloading the rx - 300mW - did you say? Is very loud inthe next room.
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> Can you somehow reduce output power to .3mW, or stick the tx in a sielded box or something?
[10:42] <m1x10> anyway.. if you cant open the site aprs.fi is receiving me well. Actually a station 70km away from me iGates me to aprs.fi
[10:42] <m1x10> I tried using a potentiometer
[10:42] <m1x10> but not at the rf output
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> I believe you.
[10:43] <m1x10> so you suggest me to reduce the rf output
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> But overloading sounds not unlikely
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> hook the ioudput of the RX up to the soundcard - and look at the waveform on a scope program
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> does it look/soundundistorted
[10:44] <m1x10> you know any windows program that does it?
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> nope.
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Any sound manipulation program should be able to show you the waverform.
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> It's been about 8 years since I used windows.
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> Though oddly I shall be using it in about half an hour.
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> its been 8 years since my windows was installed
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> (XP)
[10:48] <m1x10> mixW has spectrum and waterfall modes
[10:48] <m1x10> which one is best to use ?
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> neither
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> you want a waveform display
[10:57] <m1x10> how can i search it ?
[10:57] <m1x10> i mean
[10:57] <m1x10> "windows soundcard scope analyzer?"
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> windows soundcard oscilloscope how to kill the president of the USA
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> is what I would google.
[11:00] <m1x10> http://www.zelscope.com/
[11:00] <m1x10> is that ok?
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:04] juxta|console (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:05] juxta|console (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[11:06] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118162 <-- noise
[11:06] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/118163 <-- data
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Now compare the waveform on the tx side of the transmitter with the rx data
[11:08] <m1x10> ok
[11:09] <m1x10> i think i cant do that
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> I'd just try backing the tx off, or reducing the powrr somehow
[11:10] <m1x10> the afsk modulated data from the transmitter goes to radio's input pin.
[11:10] <m1x10> its digital data
[11:10] <m1x10> if i hook that digital data to the soundcard will work?
[11:14] <Darkside> no
[11:14] <Darkside> dont do that :P
[11:14] <Darkside> well
[11:14] <Darkside> hrmmmmmmmmmmm
[11:14] <Darkside> nah, dont do that
[11:14] <Darkside> you'll get problems
[11:18] <m1x10> ok
[11:32] <Laurenceb_> what are you using for the rx?
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hansinator.de/rfm12lib/
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> ^nicew
[11:41] <Laurenceb_> http://cafe.jeelabs.net/sw/library_-_rf12/#index4h1 <-even better
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> http://cafe.jeelabs.net/man/rf12/rf12_encrypt/
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> nned to populate my autopilot boards and try that out
[11:46] <m1x10> back
[11:47] <m1x10> Laurenceb_ http://www.radiometrix.com/content/hx1
[11:48] <Laurenceb_> i meant rx
[11:53] <m1x10> http://www.radiometrix.co.uk/products/nrx1.htm
[12:09] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210132203.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[12:19] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqu_IpkOYBg
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> better than the product
[13:00] defy (~defy@120.136.2.50) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[13:02] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-44-30.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:07] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[13:20] davidjc (~greywolfd@87-194-188-86.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:20] <Randomskk> yaay free mbed arrived
[13:22] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> what does it do?
[13:24] <Randomskk> it's just an mbed
[13:24] <Randomskk> but free
[13:24] <Randomskk> http://www.circuitcellar.com/nxpmbeddesignchallenge/kit.htm
[13:24] <Randomskk> mbed generally is an nxp M3 arm dev board
[13:24] <Randomskk> tiny thing
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> oh nxp
[13:24] <Randomskk> just a DIP package really
[13:25] Action: Laurenceb_ doesnt like nxp
[13:25] <Randomskk> but has an ethernet phy
[13:25] <Randomskk> no, nor do I, but mbed is a bit neat
[13:25] <Randomskk> online IDE is weird
[13:25] <Randomskk> but super, super, super duper mega easy to do complicated things like ethernet and stuff
[13:25] <Randomskk> the mbed libraries are quite okay basically. c++ though
[13:25] <Randomskk> in a cool way. uses templates and stuff
[13:26] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> neat then...
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> online ide is lame tho
[13:30] Action: Laurenceb_ decides to stasy away
[13:31] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:32] <Randomskk> I used one in my automated nerf turret
[13:32] <Randomskk> it makes just being an ethernet enabled GPIO very very easy
[13:32] <Randomskk> the online ide discourages me from doing anything too serious in it
[13:35] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[13:40] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:43] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[13:45] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[13:50] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:50] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:51] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[13:56] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[14:00] hey (c85830ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.88.48.173) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[14:00] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[14:04] juxta_ (~blah@ppp118-210-44-30.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[14:10] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:14] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[14:18] g4tnx (~g4tnx@host81-157-33-153.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:18] g4tnx (~g4tnx@host81-157-33-153.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Client Quit
[14:19] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] chris_99 (~chris_99@84.93.142.237) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] chris_99 (~chris_99@84.93.142.237) left irc: Changing host
[14:24] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[14:29] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:30] DagoRed (~dago@m70-m78-m79-1.nat.iastate.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[14:33] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[14:39] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:43] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[14:49] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:53] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[14:56] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210132203.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:58] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:03] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:08] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:13] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:19] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:20] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:23] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:24] stilldavid (~dave@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:25] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[15:30] Action: DagoRed demands ruber chicken launch
[15:30] <DagoRed> *rubber
[15:31] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:35] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:35] cuddykid (~acudworth@78.145.200.53) joined #highaltitude.
[15:40] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[15:40] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:42] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:45] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[15:46] smea (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[15:49] stilldavid (~dave@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:50] cuddykid (acudworth@78.145.200.53) left #highaltitude.
[15:52] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[15:54] Laurenceb_ (~Laurenceb@server.nowhere-else.org) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:59] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[16:12] stilldavid (~dave@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[16:13] stilldavid (~dave@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] DagoRed (~dago@m70-m78-m79-1.nat.iastate.edu) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[16:32] davidjc (~greywolfd@87-194-188-86.bethere.co.uk) left irc:
[16:33] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:48] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[16:50] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[16:53] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[16:57] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[16:59] <stilldavid> anybody seen a project where a DSLR was flown?
[17:01] <russss> someone in Spain was trying to do it
[17:01] <russss> but I'm not sure they did
[17:02] <russss> seems like an expensive plan
[17:02] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:02] <stilldavid> I might have found a sponsor...
[17:03] <stilldavid> they have a hook up for a 5dmkII and 14mm lens, but they want it to be "unique"
[17:06] <m1x10> lol view: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
[17:06] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[17:11] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:15] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:20] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:25] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[17:29] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:31] jasonb (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) joined #highaltitude.
[17:32] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:32] <Laurenceb> how should i try to emulate a soundcard in *nix
[17:32] <Laurenceb> just a stream of s16 ?
[17:32] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:34] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:35] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@173-26-191-251.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:39] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] earthshine_ (~earthshin@93-97-176-250.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[17:40] ElmaStar (5689bf13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.137.191.19) joined #highaltitude.
[17:42] ElmaStar (5689bf13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.137.191.19) left irc: Client Quit
[17:43] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:43] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@173-26-191-251.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:48] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@173-26-191-251.client.mchsi.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[17:51] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:55] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) joined #highaltitude.
[18:00] jerry507_mac (~jerry507@173-26-191-251.client.mchsi.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] <Laurenceb> hmf cant work this out :-/ fldigi is hanging
[18:02] Gnea (~gnea@unaffiliated/gnea) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:05] fsphil (~phil@beastie.sanslogic.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] <Laurenceb> anyone here familar with sound on *nix ?
[18:06] <DanielRichman> hanging? What kind of hanging; is it using 100% cpu?
[18:06] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:06] <DanielRichman> Have you modified fldigi or just used vanilla fldigi with your fake soundcard? I only know about fldigi really
[18:07] <Laurenceb> fldigi, then i swapped /dev/dsp for my python script
[18:07] <Laurenceb> and set it to use oss
[18:07] <Laurenceb> ie. s /dev/dsp for /dev/dsp_python.py
[18:07] <DanielRichman> Is it a fldigi problem? I mean, if you swap /dev/dsp back to normal and try to use OSS does it still hang?
[18:08] <Laurenceb> nope
[18:08] <DanielRichman> I Probably won't be of much help then; sorry :(
[18:09] <Laurenceb> i should probably check my script first
[18:09] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:10] <Laurenceb> guess i could write to /dev/dsp and use a hardware loopback
[18:10] <Laurenceb> but thats ultra lame
[18:10] <jcoxon> evening
[18:11] <fsphil> someone's done something similar to my ssdv, only better: http://www2.plala.or.jp/hikokibiyori/soft/kgstv/
[18:11] <fsphil> (japanese)
[18:11] <jcoxon> eek
[18:11] <jcoxon> fsphil, seen this morning float predictions?
[18:12] <fsphil> not yet... (loading)
[18:12] <Randomskk> yay chrome translate
[18:12] <fsphil> oh very nice
[18:12] <jcoxon> going to run it again now
[18:13] <jcoxon> fsphil, they are always very clever in japan
[18:13] <jcoxon> doubt it would work on an avr though
[18:14] <fsphil> not sure, the source code isn't available so it's pretty useless anyway
[18:15] <fsphil> it might not even be better :)
[18:15] <fsphil> they're using a better modulation than rtty, but can't say much beyond that
[18:16] <jcoxon> fair enough
[18:19] <fsphil> ooh he's sending the block in random order
[18:27] DagoRed (~dago@j15-1.nat.iastate.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:28] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:222:43ff:fe7b:5372) joined #highaltitude.
[18:28] <jcoxon> oooo royal mail missed delivery card
[18:28] <jcoxon> perhaps thats my pcbs
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
[18:29] <fsphil> oooh nice
[18:29] Action: DagoRed hopes his sparkfun order came in
[18:29] <jcoxon> i hope so
[18:29] <jcoxon> then i need to call radiometrix to pay for my ntx2 modules
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> I am waiting on a fucking massive freezer.
[18:29] <jcoxon> never have a moment free during working hours
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Though I suspect it will not be delivered by the postie.
[18:29] <jcoxon> indeed
[18:30] <jcoxon> whose payload is AEROS?
[18:32] <Laurenceb> oh yeah
[18:32] Action: Laurenceb has cc1020 streaming to /dev/dsp
[18:32] <Laurenceb> what a horrendous noise
[18:32] <DanielRichman> What was the problem?
[18:32] <Laurenceb> i can hear the rtty from my radiometrix
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:33] <Laurenceb> oh im just streaming the audio out
[18:33] <Laurenceb> i want it to go to fldigi
[18:33] <Laurenceb> not to the speakers
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Not doing the upconversion?
[18:33] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:33] <Laurenceb> im using a dodgey numpy fft technique
[18:33] <Laurenceb> the lag is about 20 seconds :P
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Seem to give sane answers?
[18:33] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, i've ordered 2 of these: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rfbee-v11-wireless-arduino-compatible-node-p-614.html?cPath=101_103
[18:34] <jcoxon> to mess around with
[18:34] <Laurenceb> not much range
[18:34] <Laurenceb> and 868
[18:34] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[18:34] <jcoxon> i know
[18:34] <Laurenceb> i have a cc1020 eval kit
[18:38] <Laurenceb> hmf not possible
[18:38] <Laurenceb> /dev/dsp is always busy when fldigi is running
[18:38] <Laurenceb> i could use two laptops...
[18:39] <Laurenceb> hardware multitasking XD
[18:39] <fsphil> fldigi can connect to a pulseaudio port -- not sure about the protocol though, could be too much bother
[18:40] <Laurenceb> it looks like coding a pseudo soundcard is the only way to do this properly
[18:40] <Laurenceb> theres an oss lib for python but its for talking to an oss device, not being one
[18:42] <Laurenceb> oss looks simplest to emulate but i could be wrng
[18:43] <DanielRichman> you might want to hack fldigi/src/soundcard/soundcard.cxx
[18:44] <DanielRichman> It may be infinite looping since all the ioctls on /dev/dsp don't work if you've replaced it with a python Thing
[18:44] <Laurenceb> yeah probably
[18:44] <Laurenceb> it might be easiest just to hack that
[18:44] <DanielRichman> If you compile with -g, run fldigi in gdb, make it hang, and then open HTOP
[18:45] <DanielRichman> you can find the specific thread that is chewwing all the CPU and sigint it
[18:45] <Laurenceb> in fact i could add cc1020 sdr support in soundcard.cxx
[18:45] <DanielRichman> which should cause gdb to stop in that thread so you can have a loko at the stacktrace
[18:45] <Laurenceb> neat
[18:45] <DanielRichman> You could, but it's C++ :X
[18:45] Action: Laurenceb hasnt used gdb
[18:45] <DanielRichman> soundcard.cxx doesn't look too bad actually
[18:45] <DanielRichman> gdb is awesome
[18:45] <Laurenceb> tbh id just hack it to talk to the script to start with
[18:46] <Laurenceb> i need to write a proper interface to control the cc1020
[18:46] <Laurenceb> also i need to make it use u
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> u?
[18:46] <Laurenceb> use hardware usb... so not sure if this is a waste of time
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:47] <Laurenceb> maybe just do the hardware usb and then add support in soundcard.cxx
[18:48] <Laurenceb> itd be nice to have it talk to fldigi first - to be sure it works
[18:48] <Laurenceb> can fldigi just read a wav file?
[18:48] <DanielRichman> feel like writing a kernel module too or just going to use the /sys stuff?
[18:48] <DanielRichman> yeah it can
[18:49] <DanielRichman> File -> Audio -> Playback
[18:50] <Laurenceb> ok ill try that
[18:50] <Laurenceb> i need to make the waterfall extend past 4khz too
[18:50] <Laurenceb> i was going to use lufa and raw hid
[18:52] <fsphil> ooh really thick fog here atm.. tempted to bring out the green laser
[18:56] Action: Laurenceb is rather confused by all the c++
[18:56] <Laurenceb> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi/blob/master/src/soundcard/soundconf.cxx
[18:56] <Laurenceb> is everything importatn in there?
[18:57] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-126-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) left irc: Quit: jan_bangna
[18:57] <Laurenceb> hmm no
[18:57] <Laurenceb> sound.cxx as well
[18:58] <Laurenceb> setting up everything correctly would be a pain
[18:58] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:222:43ff:fe7b:5372) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[19:05] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[19:08] <Laurenceb> hmm can i not just stream a wav file?
[19:08] <Laurenceb> how would the simplest way to make that work
[19:09] Action: Laurenceb fails at non embedded programming
[19:09] <Laurenceb> the wav file would actually be my script and itd chuck out data in wav format?
[19:10] <DanielRichman> When you tried to replace /dev/dsp what did you actually do?
[19:11] <Laurenceb> chucked out s16 data
[19:11] <Laurenceb> so edited /dev/dsp in the config dialogue box
[19:11] <Laurenceb> to my script
[19:11] <DanielRichman> Right. I think that would have meant fldigi would have opened your scirpt and read the source code
[19:11] <Laurenceb> hmm doh
[19:12] <DanielRichman> Ok what you want to do is:
[19:12] <Laurenceb> it was executable
[19:12] <DanielRichman> $ mkfifo myfakesoundcard
[19:12] <DanielRichman> and then either open("myfakesoundcard", "w") in python or ./myscript.py > myfakesoundcard
[19:12] <DanielRichman> and then point fldigi at myfakesoundcard
[19:12] <DanielRichman> I don't know if that will work, just guessing
[19:12] <Laurenceb> i see
[19:13] <Laurenceb> what about streaming a wav file?
[19:13] <Laurenceb> ./myscript.py > wavfile ?
[19:13] <DanielRichman> I don't know how fldigi will handle opening a fifo as if it were a wav file
[19:13] <DanielRichman> But yeah that's my best guess
[19:13] Action: DanielRichman tries it
[19:13] Action: Laurenceb is cooking, brb
[19:18] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: the wav-fifo hack works for me; I used fldigi-File->Audio->Tx generate to create generate.wav, then
[19:19] <DanielRichman> 5 mkfifo stream.wav
[19:19] <DanielRichman> 7 cat generate.wav > stream.wav
[19:19] <DanielRichman> and used fldigi-File->Playback to open stream.wav
[19:19] <DanielRichman> and it decoded the text I sent
[19:27] johnnyfif (~johnnyfiv@c-98-247-165-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
[19:27] johnnyfif (~johnnyfiv@c-98-247-165-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] dirkx__ (~dirkx__@host86-172-24-149.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] <m1x10> Hi
[20:14] <m1x10> anyone here?
[20:14] <m1x10> I got crazy physics question
[20:16] <stilldavid> what's up m1x10
[20:21] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:23] <m1x10> hey stilldavid
[20:23] <m1x10> know a bit about harmonics?
[20:24] <stilldavid> hah, nope.
[20:24] <stilldavid> but it never hurts to ask?
[20:24] <m1x10> oh, ok !
[20:24] <m1x10> ee
[20:25] <m1x10> just what is it? why exists? how is produced.. questions like that..
[20:25] <m1x10> wikipedia is nice to read but times dialog is better
[20:25] <m1x10> times/sometimes
[20:29] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:222:43ff:fe7b:5372) joined #highaltitude.
[20:29] Guest5898673 (~smealum@85-171-205-215.rev.numericable.fr) left irc:
[20:31] <fsphil> ooh that is a good question, wouldn't mind knowing myself!
[20:32] <m1x10> :P
[20:32] <m1x10> I was reading about radio waves
[20:32] <m1x10> and I spotted a sentence saying about harmonics
[20:33] <jonsowman> in general, because things can resonate at more than one frequency
[20:33] <jonsowman> a mass on a spring for example will have a fundamental resonant frequency, but will also have another harmonic at a higher frequency
[20:35] <m1x10> jonsowman: example!
[20:35] <m1x10> i got a radio wave at 144.8mhz
[20:36] <m1x10> explain with that
[20:36] <m1x10> :)
[20:37] <Randomskk> the radio wave isn't anything to do with it
[20:37] <m1x10> that is a sinewave
[20:37] <Randomskk> your radio wave is oscillations at exactly 144.8mhz
[20:38] <Randomskk> however, the transmitter and receiver are both liable to receive frequencies that are harmonics of that
[20:38] <Randomskk> transmit/receive
[20:38] <Randomskk> e.g. on the transmitter, you generate that base frequency using, say, a crystal
[20:38] <Randomskk> the crystal is resonant at that frequency, that's how it generates it
[20:38] <Randomskk> but it is also resonant, less so, at the harmonic frequencies - half and twice that frequency, for example (and others)
[20:39] <Randomskk> so, depending on how good it is, can also generate some signal on those harmonic frequencies
[20:39] <Randomskk> which is why you typically filter to just your frequency, blocking the harmonics
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Complicating factors is that crystals sometimes do not have a fundamental at the sticker frequency.
[20:39] <Randomskk> and may be operating on a harmonic themselves, indeed
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> They are in fact designed to resonate at the third overtone.
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Forex
[20:40] <Randomskk> also sometimes you are dicking around with the frequency to get a higher one than the crystal, or using a resonant circuit and a PLL or such
[20:41] <m1x10> :(
[20:41] <Randomskk> but the basic concept is the same
[20:42] <m1x10> let me rephrase the example
[20:42] <m1x10> a got a sinewave changing its amplitude 144.800 million times / sec
[20:43] <m1x10> give me a harmonic of this
[20:45] <Randomskk> first sentence on wikipedia
[20:45] <Randomskk> "A harmonic of a wave is a component frequency of the signal that is an integer multiple of the fundamental frequency"
[20:46] <m1x10> ok
[20:46] <m1x10> 1st harmonic 289.400 mhz?
[20:46] <m1x10> 6 sory
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> 2nd
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> 1st is the fundamental
[20:47] <m1x10> ok
[20:47] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> nth harmonic is n*freq
[20:48] <m1x10> yeah
[20:48] <m1x10> got it
[20:48] <m1x10> but
[20:48] <m1x10> why is it produces?
[20:48] <m1x10> produced*
[20:48] <Randomskk> see explanation above
[20:48] <m1x10> now that my radio outputs sinewaves at 144.8 it also outputs at 289.600 ?
[20:48] <Randomskk> whatever is generating your 144.8mhz is resonant at that frequency
[20:49] <Randomskk> consequentially it also has a resonance at the 2nd harmonic, which may be stronger or weaker than the primary frequency, and may or may not be well filtered before transmission
[20:49] <Randomskk> so generates some signal at that higher frequency
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> It probably outputs at the third harmonic too, due to distortion onthe otuput transistor.
[20:49] <m1x10> "is resonant at that frequency" <-- i dont get this. and greek translation does not help me with the words.
[20:50] <m1x10> can u answer my last question plz?
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> It may output some amount at harmonics. This will usually be vastly reduced
[20:51] <m1x10> ok
[20:51] <m1x10> so thats crap
[20:51] <jerry507_mac> So is life
[20:52] <m1x10> i got 144.8 so i got 289.6 and maybe 434.4 in the air
[20:52] <Randomskk> m1x10: that's why you have filters
[20:52] <jerry507_mac> Yea
[20:52] <m1x10> pfff
[20:52] <Randomskk> they block a lot of the non-144.8
[20:52] <m1x10> didnt know that !
[20:52] <m1x10> "I know just one thing, I know nothing" -- Socrates !
[20:52] <jerry507_mac> Now you do
[20:53] <m1x10> ok
[20:53] <m1x10> but
[20:53] <m1x10> still dont understand why there're produced.
[20:53] <m1x10> that resonant thing
[20:53] <m1x10> doesnot help
[20:53] <jerry507_mac> math
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Distortion of a sinewave causes generation of harmonics
[20:54] <m1x10> its physically generated or because of the electronic devices?
[20:54] <jerry507_mac> ?
[20:54] <Randomskk> it really depends on what level you want to understand it at
[20:54] <Randomskk> it's turtles all the way down basically
[20:55] <jerry507_mac> Ok, you know how a sine wave looks right?
[20:55] <jerry507_mac> With the very specific curve
[20:55] <m1x10> yea man !
[20:55] <m1x10> squarewave whatever
[20:55] <jerry507_mac> Any time you don't get that EXACT shape, you're going to see harmonics
[20:56] <jerry507_mac> Right, a square wave is the fundamental frequency plus every odd harmonic
[20:56] <jerry507_mac> I think it's odd, always forget
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Irt's odd
[20:56] <TehLaser> Imagine a piece of rope with both ends fixed. Now wiggle it back and forth. You can set up a standing wave of exactly one wavelength by wiggling the rope back and forth.
[20:56] <TehLaser> You can also get it so you have two complete waves in the rope.
[20:56] <jerry507_mac> A perfect square wave is the fundamental plus every odd harmonic out to infinity frequency
[20:57] <m1x10> crap
[20:57] <jerry507_mac> Aren't triangle waves fundamental plus even harmonics?
[20:57] <TehLaser> That's the harmonic. Now, it's always there, because you can't put out a perfect sine wave, but much reduced in amplitude.
[20:57] Action: m1x10 needs some sleep before he hears such things
[20:58] <TehLaser> But the wave can exist easily in the rope/antenna, so any distortions on the fundamental frequency "leak" some energy into the harmonics.
[20:59] <TehLaser> Frequencies that are not harmonics of the fundamental, however, can't exist in the rope/antenna, if the ends really are properly fixed. (this isn't quite true, but sort of works as a simplification)
[20:59] <TehLaser> Well, except half, because the whole rope could move back and forth.
[21:01] <TehLaser> Crystals work the same way, but it's harder to visualize.
[21:03] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:05] <m1x10> guys thank you
[21:05] <m1x10> i got to go
[21:05] <m1x10> tomorrow more reading :)
[21:05] <m1x10> bb
[21:05] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp089210132203.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: I eat electrons for breakfast and I vomit thunders
[21:17] <fsphil> if you filter everything above a square waves fundamental, you get a sine wave?
[21:19] <Darkside> yup
[21:25] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[21:33] <fsphil> I was thinking of doing something like that to generate BPSK31 from an avr, directly from a pin with PWM
[21:34] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:37] <Randomskk> I have done that to generate CW from an STM32
[21:37] <Randomskk> into a wire
[21:37] <Randomskk> without a filter
[21:37] <Randomskk> worked fine
[21:37] <fsphil> I'd been wondering if the antenna itself might be enough of a low pass filter
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> It's not.
[21:38] <Randomskk> yea. antennas are really not very strongly resonant
[21:38] <Randomskk> well, generally
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Antennas will typically happily radiate highfrequencies - especially at integer multiples of the frequency
[21:39] <fsphil> ah, exactly the frequencies I wouldn't want
[21:42] earthshine_ (earthshin@93-97-176-250.zone5.bethere.co.uk) left #highaltitude.
[21:47] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc:
[21:50] <Laurenceb> DanielRichmond: thanks fpor the help
[21:51] <Laurenceb> now all i need is a python wav writing module
[21:51] <Laurenceb> http://docs.python.org/library/wave.html
[21:51] <Laurenceb> kind of trivial :P
[21:57] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:222:43ff:fe7b:5372) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[21:57] <Randomskk> in python, everything is trivial :D
[22:03] <Laurenceb> hmm wave.open never returns
[22:03] <Laurenceb> if i try to open a fifo
[22:04] <Laurenceb> Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "Wave_write instance has no attribute '_file'" in <bound method Wave_write.__del__ of <wave.Wave_write instance at 0x7f24b842bf80>> ignored
[22:12] MoALTz (~no@92.9.38.76) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:12] MoALTz (~no@92.9.38.76) joined #highaltitude.
[22:18] <Laurenceb> how do i install dl-fldigi?
[22:18] <Laurenceb> theres no configure file
[22:18] <Laurenceb> configure.ac ?
[22:18] <jcoxon> autoconf -vfi
[22:18] <jcoxon> that will create configure
[22:19] <Laurenceb> autoconf: invalid option -vfi
[22:19] <Randomskk> what
[22:19] <Randomskk> that should work
[22:19] <Randomskk> oh
[22:19] <Randomskk> autoreconf
[22:19] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[22:19] <Randomskk> autoreconf -vfi
[22:19] <jcoxon> thats it
[22:19] <Randomskk> stupid autotools
[22:19] <Laurenceb> working
[22:20] <Laurenceb> i think fldigi needs to be fired up and trying to read stream.wav
[22:20] <Laurenceb> for wave.open to return
[22:20] <Laurenceb> s for that i need to install a newer version that can actually read wav files
[22:21] <Laurenceb> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
[22:21] <Laurenceb> not going well
[22:21] <Laurenceb> isnt that configs job?
[22:22] <jcoxon> so:
[22:22] <jcoxon> autoreconf -vfi
[22:22] <jcoxon> ./configure
[22:22] <jcoxon> make
[22:22] <jcoxon> make install
[22:22] <Laurenceb> < *nix n00b
[22:22] <jcoxon> haha
[22:22] <Laurenceb> well, relatively
[22:23] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[22:24] <Laurenceb> No package 'libcurl' found
[22:24] <jcoxon> what distro?
[22:24] <Laurenceb> configure: error: Package requirements (libcurl >= 7.10.0)
[22:24] <Laurenceb> ubuntu
[22:24] <Laurenceb> old... i should update it...
[22:24] <Randomskk> try libcurl4
[22:24] <Randomskk> woah
[22:25] <Randomskk> well, yes
[22:25] <Randomskk> there's no package libcurl
[22:25] <Randomskk> libcurl3 exists
[22:25] <Randomskk> and provides libcurl 7.19
[22:25] <Laurenceb> hmm i have it installed
[22:26] <Randomskk> -dev
[22:26] <Randomskk> hm
[22:26] <Randomskk> you want openssl-dev
[22:26] <Randomskk> or gnutls-dev, your choice
[22:26] <Randomskk> I... don't know what the significant difference is. try openssl.
[22:27] <Laurenceb> ok, now ill try configure again
[22:27] <Laurenceb> last tme i tried to build fldigi it was an utter pain as well :/
[22:28] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, its better these days
[22:28] <Laurenceb> same
[22:28] <jcoxon> once you've got the dependencies built
[22:28] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/MGJWb4Pi
[22:29] <Randomskk> install libcurl3-openssl-dev
[22:30] <Laurenceb> theres a 4
[22:31] <Laurenceb> yeah worked XD
[22:32] <Laurenceb> *crunch crunch*
[22:32] <Randomskk> don't forget -j for make: give it twice the number of cores
[22:32] <Randomskk> so like -j4
[22:33] <Laurenceb> i only have one core
[22:33] <Randomskk> ah
[22:33] <Randomskk> if you have hyperthreading -j2 may still help but otherwise not much point
[22:33] <Laurenceb> but its x64
[22:33] <Laurenceb> turion
[22:36] <Laurenceb> still compiling... this has got to have increased in complexity since i last built it
[22:37] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, there was a big rewrite a while back
[22:37] <jcoxon> and thats when we rewrote the dl- bit of fldigi as well
[22:37] <jcoxon> well DanielRichman rewrote it - the rest of us made dirty code
[22:37] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/SR6H7wdw
[22:38] <jcoxon> blame fsphil
[22:38] <Laurenceb> :/
[22:39] <Laurenceb> what to do...
[22:39] <fsphil> ohh arr
[22:39] <Randomskk> it's in my /usr/include. I think it comes from libfltk1.1-dev
[22:39] <fsphil> FL/Fl_RGB_Image.H
[22:39] <fsphil> is the case the same?
[22:39] <Laurenceb> has anyone actually compiled this on ubuntu?
[22:39] <fsphil> that happened last time
[22:39] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: yea
[22:40] <Randomskk> get the above package
[22:40] <Laurenceb> thats good to know
[22:41] <Laurenceb> its already installed
[22:41] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:41] gb73d (gb73d@79-79-158-148.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:42] <Randomskk> it definitely comes from fltk
[22:42] <fsphil> is there any difference in case between the include and the file name?
[22:42] <Randomskk> it's in that case for me
[22:43] <fsphil> hmm
[22:43] <Laurenceb> i havent edited anything
[22:43] <Laurenceb> downoaded of github 10 minutes or so ago
[22:43] <Randomskk> it is definitely from libfltk1.1-de
[22:43] <Randomskk> dev
[22:43] <fsphil> and it's in "FL/" ok?
[22:43] <Randomskk> make sure libfltk1.1-dev is installed, rather than non dev
[22:44] <Laurenceb> libfltk1.1-dev is already the newest version.
[22:44] <Randomskk> (and yea, see if it does exist in /usr/include/FL"
[22:45] <Laurenceb> i only have XBM image
[22:46] <Laurenceb> i only have Fl_XBM_Image.h
[22:46] <Laurenceb> & Fl_BMP_Image.h
[22:46] <Laurenceb> very odd
[22:47] <Laurenceb> maybe c&p the file?
[22:47] <Randomskk> sec
[22:47] <fsphil> do you have FL/Fl_Progress.H?
[22:47] <fsphil> er
[22:47] <fsphil> FL/Fl_Image.H
[22:48] <Laurenceb> yes to both
[22:48] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/Fl_RGB_Image.H
[22:48] <fsphil> in ssdv_rx.cxx, can you change the include to FL/Fl_Image.H
[22:48] <fsphil> basically remove the RGB bit
[22:49] <Laurenceb> where is that source file?
[22:49] <fsphil> right at the top
[22:49] <fsphil> line 7, #include <FL/Fl_RGB_Image.H>
[22:49] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: grep -R Fl_RGB_Image *
[22:49] <fsphil> ah, the file itself
[22:50] <Laurenceb> no i meant thwe file
[22:50] <fsphil> src/ssdv/ssdv_rx.cxx
[22:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:50] <Laurenceb> ta
[22:50] <fsphil> this was my first go at fltk, it's possible I've included the image in a non-standard way
[22:51] <Laurenceb> k thanks.. recompiling
[22:51] <Laurenceb> (itll be about 10 minutes to find out
[22:51] <Laurenceb> maybe..
[22:51] <fsphil> should pick up where it left off
[22:51] <Laurenceb> doesnt always work
[22:52] <Laurenceb> if there was an error
[22:52] <Laurenceb> ok so far, thanks for the help
[22:53] <fsphil> np, I'll commit that fix - should end up in jcoxon's tree shortly
[22:55] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/UjG19sQz
[22:55] <Laurenceb> not good :-/
[22:55] <Laurenceb> at least it compiled
[22:56] <fsphil> eep
[22:58] <fsphil> weird, crashing in fontconfig
[23:01] <Laurenceb> i dont get it :-/
[23:02] <fsphil> just standard ubuntu?
[23:02] <Laurenceb> its a bit old
[23:02] <Laurenceb> 8.04
[23:03] <Laurenceb> and x64 AMD
[23:04] <Randomskk> 8.04 is quite old
[23:04] <Laurenceb> could that be why?
[23:04] <Randomskk> I think 9.04 is the earliest I ever tried getting it to work on
[23:04] <Randomskk> and that was the older version of fldigi
[23:04] <Randomskk> theoretically it still compiled, so...
[23:04] <fsphil> might be worth recompiling with -g, and see where in fldigi it's crashing
[23:04] <Randomskk> yea
[23:05] <Laurenceb> make -g?
[23:05] <fsphil> I did: CFLAGS=-g ./configure
[23:05] <fsphil> but there might be a better way
[23:05] <Randomskk> adds debug flags
[23:05] <Randomskk> s/flags/info
[23:06] <Randomskk> so you can get more info out of it when it crashes (e.g. by running it under gdb)
[23:06] SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:06] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[23:07] <Laurenceb> compiling...
[23:07] <Laurenceb> so how do i run under gdb?
[23:08] <Randomskk> gdb dl-fldigi
[23:08] <Randomskk> run
[23:08] <Laurenceb> easy :P
[23:08] <Randomskk> usingi gdb beyond that is harder :P
[23:09] <Randomskk> by which I mean "I don't get it but haven't spent a huge amount of time trying to", it's okay for basic things like saying "here add a breakpoint and now let me see what's going on"
[23:09] <Randomskk> apparently some people use it for debugging avr/arm
[23:09] <Randomskk> but like, ouch
[23:09] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:09] <Randomskk> setting that up is even harder than a build chain and programmer
[23:10] <Laurenceb> which is pretty easy fr avr
[23:10] <Laurenceb> or maybe thats just as ive done it a few times
[23:11] <Randomskk> admittedly it is easy for avr
[23:11] <Randomskk> arm is harder
[23:11] <Laurenceb> yes, i gave up on getting nxp to work with my jtag dongle
[23:11] <Laurenceb> looked like id have to write a bunch of config files and scripts to tie it all together from scratch
[23:12] <Randomskk> yea
[23:12] <Randomskk> quite a pain
[23:12] <Laurenceb> probably a bit easier now
[23:12] <Laurenceb> as more people have worked on it
[23:13] <Randomskk> true
[23:13] <Randomskk> right, bedtime. yay for queuing things up for 3am downloads to get around time based traffic limits
[23:13] <Laurenceb> cya, thanks for the help
[23:13] Action: Randomskk is grabbing a gig of image data from facebook to use as learning material for face recognition
[23:13] <Randomskk> np, good luck getting it working
[23:13] <Laurenceb> hah
[23:14] <Laurenceb> thanks
[23:14] <Randomskk> their api is fun if terrifying
[23:14] <Randomskk> anyway -->bed
[23:15] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/em07GxnQ
[23:17] <Laurenceb> looks like libfontconfig
[23:18] <Laurenceb> guess i could try the standard distribution
[23:18] <Laurenceb> oh well --> bed also
[23:18] <Laurenceb> cya fsphil
[23:22] SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:26] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[23:30] <fsphil> night Laurenceb
[23:32] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[23:33] grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) joined #highaltitude.
[23:43] natrium (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:46] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[23:58] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:00] --- Wed Oct 13 2010