highaltitude.log.20101007

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[00:25] <W0OTM> YEAH! iHAB-2 Launch Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTdsSM9_rq4
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[03:22] <natrium42> W0OTM, great vid
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[07:59] <Laurenceb> hi
[08:03] <Darkside> ohi
[08:03] <m1x10> hi
[08:03] <m1x10> Darkside: ohi in GR means 'no' :p
[08:04] <Darkside> lol
[08:04] <Darkside> o hi
[08:04] <Darkside> o hai thar
[08:04] <m1x10> :)
[08:05] <m1x10> the darkside of the moon
[08:05] <m1x10> great album
[08:06] <Darkside> yes
[08:09] <m1x10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tTA7UDGb2I
[08:09] <m1x10> :p
[08:27] <m1x10> http://code.google.com/speed/webp/gallery.html
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[09:01] <fsphil> webp is a rubbish name. maybe, iweb -- webpeg, or jweb
[09:17] <fsphil> oh cool, the image structure is RIFF, based on the old Amiga IFF format
[09:26] <m1x10> fsphil. yeah the name sucks.
[09:26] <m1x10> but the compression looks promising
[09:27] <fsphil> indeed
[09:29] <fsphil> I can't help but think MS will ruin it by not implementing it in IE, or doing it badly like they did with PNG
[09:36] <m1x10> we will see
[09:37] <m1x10> btw I was studing PNG yesterday. The interlacing algorithm Adam7.
[09:37] <m1x10> Im preparing to study jpeg compression.
[09:37] <m1x10> and im reading various things
[09:38] <m1x10> may wikipedia be online forever :)
[09:39] <fsphil> jpeg is fun :)
[09:40] <m1x10> :P
[09:40] <m1x10> im waiting the jpeg camera order
[09:40] <m1x10> im thinking of a lightweight flight for the start. I will just put that little cam and remove the canon.
[09:41] <fsphil> I like that your camera can change compression level
[09:42] <fsphil> the one I have doesn't do that
[09:42] <m1x10> its has a different chip
[09:42] <fsphil> yep
[09:42] <m1x10> a bit more modern thats yours
[09:42] <fsphil> it doesn't have a way to read part of the image though, it sends it all in one go
[09:43] <m1x10> max res is VGA. And with 0% compression I believe the image will be good for a start.
[09:43] <m1x10> it will be saved in microSD
[09:44] <fsphil> good plan
[09:44] <m1x10> microSD uses SPI and camera uart at 56.400. So I think tranfer will be fast.
[09:46] <fsphil> yea the card will be much faster than the camera
[09:47] <m1x10> you can also set the chunk size of the returned payload
[09:48] <m1x10> I know that microSD works by writing 512b blocks
[09:50] <fsphil> it's not that important if you're only storing the images, only if you want to tx them somehow
[09:50] <m1x10> yeah
[09:50] <m1x10> but I want to prepare the ground for TXing
[09:51] <m1x10> certainly I wont TX image at first flight
[09:53] <m1x10> I think you should try buying the camera. It might help you with SSTV.
[09:54] <m1x10> ~35$ iirc
[09:54] <fsphil> I'd like to see what kind of images your camera produces when you get it
[09:54] <m1x10> sure
[09:54] <m1x10> I will send you lots to experiment :)
[09:54] <fsphil> the colour is a bit off on these cameras
[09:54] <fsphil> some of the high altitude shots looked like they where from Mars
[09:55] <m1x10> I dont expect THE image quality
[09:55] <fsphil> how cool would that be -- mars hab'ing
[09:55] <m1x10> lol
[09:55] <m1x10> but I believe some low image makes the image more retro
[09:55] <fsphil> I believe the Russians did it on Venus
[09:56] <m1x10> hehh
[09:56] <m1x10> I guess some decades ago
[09:56] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon
[09:57] <m1x10> nice
[09:58] <fsphil> "small low-power transmitter only allowed a data transmission rate of 2,048 bits per second"
[09:58] <fsphil> sheesh, millions of miles away on another planet and they still have a faster data rate then me :)
[09:58] <m1x10> I believe taking pictures of landscapes in open enviromnet would give good quality.
[09:58] <m1x10> haha
[09:59] <m1x10> why dont u move at 1200 afsk?
[09:59] <m1x10> why im the only one who does this?
[09:59] <fsphil> we can only use 10mw power, gets tricky using faster data rates
[10:00] <m1x10> i dont know if we have some special regulations in GR
[10:01] <m1x10> I just have the ham license.
[10:01] <fsphil> likely ok, but best to check
[10:02] <fsphil> I think the UK is the only place with such limits on operating from the air
[10:02] <m1x10> the only thing im afraid of is the NOTAM
[10:02] <fsphil> don't fear the notam :)
[10:02] <fsphil> have you applied yet?
[10:02] <m1x10> I believe that ppl on that service wont take me seriously
[10:02] <m1x10> no
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[10:02] <m1x10> fsphil, first 9 months army... then if i come I alive I finish it and flight it..
[10:02] <fsphil> they should be ok, odds are the local met office are launching balloons all the time
[10:02] <m1x10> that would take more than a year
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[10:03] <m1x10> "fly a balloon in near space, in greece?.. No way."
[10:04] <m1x10> Then I will have to their offices with some of your images
[10:04] <m1x10> have/head
[10:04] <m1x10> and try to explain
[10:05] <m1x10> I think you have that air limits in UK cause of terroristic fears and things like that.
[10:05] <fsphil> don't even mention space, just say it's like a weather balloon
[10:05] <m1x10> hmm
[10:05] <fsphil> nah, just our radio regulator is very strict -- always has been
[10:05] <m1x10> weather balloon with electronics to measure enviromnent settings..'
[10:06] <fsphil> that's it
[10:06] <m1x10> lol
[10:06] <m1x10> I should write it not to forget it
[10:07] <fsphil> but ask them now, at least they can give you an idea of who to contact and what's involved for when you're ready to apply
[10:08] <m1x10> hmm
[10:08] <m1x10> nice thought
[10:08] <m1x10> but still too far. I should do this right away when I arrive from army.
[10:09] <m1x10> I think im going to join in february
[10:09] <m1x10> i finished my papers
[10:09] <m1x10> but now im thinking until february most parts will be ready.
[10:10] <m1x10> I believe at the end of this yeah I will have the main flight system ready.
[10:11] <m1x10> the backup is ready
[10:11] <m1x10> then payload construction
[10:12] <fsphil> you could almost launch before joining
[10:13] <m1x10> in winter?
[10:13] <m1x10> no way
[10:13] <fsphil> hehe, you have winter way down there? :)
[10:13] <m1x10> its going to be water landing ! dont forget.
[10:13] <m1x10> oh lol.
[10:14] <m1x10> I need summer cause by cousin has his speedboat available.
[10:14] <fsphil> ah forgot about the water landing
[10:14] <m1x10> :p
[10:16] <m1x10> now im trying to understand the RGB VS Y2CBCR
[10:17] <m1x10> rgb=reb,green,blue channels. ok
[10:18] <fsphil> neat system, Y is black and white
[10:18] <m1x10> cbcr is blue and red
[10:18] <m1x10> the Y' thinggy makes me feel uncomfortable
[10:18] <fsphil> Cb = R - Y
[10:18] <fsphil> er
[10:18] <fsphil> Cb = B - Y
[10:18] <fsphil> Cr = R - Y
[10:18] <m1x10> what do u mean by B-Y ?
[10:19] <m1x10> blue mixed with yellow?
[10:19] <fsphil> Cb is the difference between the blue and Y (which is an average of RGB)
[10:19] <fsphil> Cr is the same, but with red
[10:19] <m1x10> yes
[10:20] <m1x10> so bits of information describing B-Y and R-Y
[10:21] <m1x10> the Y' thinggy?
[10:21] <m1x10> it says luminance
[10:21] <fsphil> yep, it's basically black and white
[10:21] <fsphil> Y = (R + G + B) / 3
[10:22] <m1x10> so Y' is the brightness of CbCr ?
[10:22] <m1x10> !
[10:22] <fsphil> nope, Y is just the brightness
[10:22] <fsphil> if you had no Cb and Cr, you'd get a black and white image
[10:24] <m1x10> and why jpeg converts the RGB color space to Y'CbCr? Whats the benefit ?
[10:25] <fsphil> The human eye is more sensitive to brightness
[10:25] <fsphil> jpeg stores less data about the colour
[10:26] <m1x10> hmm
[10:26] <fsphil> it helps make the image smaller
[10:26] <m1x10> adds brightness and removes some color then/
[10:26] <m1x10> ?
[10:26] <fsphil> it converts the RGB image to black and white (Y)
[10:27] <fsphil> then takes away the R and B parts from the new Y image
[10:27] <fsphil> hmm this is tricky to describe
[10:27] <m1x10> brb
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[10:42] <fsphil> prediction for sunday moving further north: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=315641a9c70c851c08fa331a3469a60fa1020385
[10:42] <fsphil> hopefully it won't move much more
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[11:06] <m1x10> back
[11:07] <fsphil> re
[11:08] <m1x10> nice path
[11:08] <m1x10> r u flying these days?
[11:08] <fsphil> hopefully yea
[11:08] <m1x10> great.
[11:08] <m1x10> mission website?
[11:09] <fsphil> hmm.. there isn't really
[11:09] <m1x10> ah ok
[11:09] <m1x10> will u try sstv?
[11:09] <m1x10> target altitude?
[11:10] <fsphil> ssdv - sending the jpeg over rtty
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[11:10] <fsphil> hoping for 33km, expecting ~30km
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> hi
[11:10] <m1x10> cool
[11:10] Action: Laurenceb_ got 460800 baud serial working
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> finally
[11:11] <fsphil> an odd baud rate
[11:11] <m1x10> haha
[11:11] <m1x10> 46800 maybe?
[11:11] <Laurenceb_> er yes
[11:11] <m1x10> :p
[11:11] <Laurenceb_> got data dumping out of my cc1020.. it looks a little odd tho
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> the histogram isnt as nice as when i sampled with the bus pirate
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> theres a bulge in the frequency spectrum of about the right bandwidth for the front end, but its in the wrong place
[11:13] <Laurenceb_> i need to do some more tests..
[11:13] <Laurenceb_> if it doesnt work i guess i could try sampling the front end ADC directly
[11:13] <fsphil> mmmm... spectrum analyser
[11:14] <Laurenceb_> well im trying to make a SDR
[11:14] <Laurenceb_> it could be useful as a spectrum analyser tho :P
[11:15] <fsphil> I'd love to play with an SDR, though I doubt I'd have the brainz to make good use of it
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> What is the frequency range?
[11:16] <Laurenceb_> 402 to 480mhz or something i forget
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[11:16] <fsphil> yikes
[11:16] <Laurenceb_> whats that?
[11:16] <m1x10> oh
[11:16] <m1x10> lol
[11:16] <m1x10> SpeedEvil: yours?
[11:17] <fsphil> I mean doing things like dvb or pal
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> cant see that on my network :/
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> hmm theres a 30khz bandwidth analogue filter on the front end of the cc1020 - so if i sample the ADC at a lower rate than the IF it should be ok
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> - 30khz centered on 307.2khz
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> no
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[11:53] <m1x10> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
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[11:55] <earthshine_> Afternoon
[11:55] <m1x10> I wonder how possible is for the ISS cam to capture some other orbiting satellite.
[11:55] <m1x10> Hi earthshine
[11:56] <earthshine_> Do any of you guys own a weather satellite receiver?
[11:58] <fsphil> m1x10, if you count the space shuttle or the soyuz, then pretty possible :)
[11:58] <earthshine_> Not unless they transmit weather satellite images ;)
[11:59] <m1x10> I mostly mean those thousands of satellites that Ive heard they exist up there
[11:59] <fsphil> I had a go at receiving a weather sat image with the 817, but got garbage. apparently not enough bandwidth
[11:59] <fsphil> m1x10, no reason why not - they can even be imaged on the ground -- but needs a telescope and very accurate pointing
[12:00] <fsphil> yay the ft790 just appeared on my desk
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[12:30] <earthshine_> A guy in my astro society regularly does images of the ISS - he's got some great results
[12:32] <earthshine_> Even one where you can see the space shuttle docked - you can see the wings and tail
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[12:55] <Darkside> hey UK people
[12:55] <Darkside> so you're not allowed to do amateur transmissions from balloons, right?
[12:56] <jonsowman> indeed
[12:57] <fsphil> or any other airborne vehicle
[12:58] <fsphil> I wouldn't be surprised if jumping of the ground while TX'ing breaks the rules
[13:02] <Darkside> lol
[13:02] <Darkside> well, totally using that in my presentation tomorrow :P
[13:03] <Darkside> i'll have a UK amateur in teh audience too :P
[13:11] <fsphil> haha, what's the presentation on? habing?
[13:30] <Darkside> nah
[13:30] <Darkside> a HF telemetry system i've been workingon
[13:31] <Darkside> which is going in a HAB, just as a nice little test for it :P
[13:32] <jonsowman> lucky people.
[13:33] <Darkside> hehe
[13:33] <Darkside> i'm only doing 40mW
[13:33] <Darkside> but at 7MHz, it'll be interesting to see how far it gets
[13:34] <fsphil> how do you control the power? change the voltage going into the antenna?
[13:38] <fsphil> oh wait, ohms law
[13:39] <Darkside> change the power?
[13:39] <Darkside> hwhw
[13:39] <Darkside> hehe
[13:39] <Darkside> yes, ohms law is how you calculate the power, well kind of
[13:39] <Darkside> you want RMS power, but you can work that out from the load impedance and the peak to peak voltage
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[13:40] <fsphil> so if the peak to peak is 5v into a perfect 50ohm antenna... puts out 100mw?
[13:41] <Darkside> no
[13:41] <Darkside> you work it out based on the RMS voltage, with teh voltage waveform centered on 0v
[13:42] <Darkside> take a look at this: http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/pwr2volts.htm
[13:42] <Darkside> 5Vp-p into a 50 ohm load would be 62.5mW RMS
[13:43] <Darkside> whenever you talk about RF power you almost always talk about RMS
[13:43] <fsphil> ooh right, because the voltage isn't 5v continuous
[13:43] <Darkside> yes
[13:43] <Darkside> but yeah, the amp i'm using it set up for 4Vp-p out
[13:44] <Darkside> is*
[13:44] <Darkside> but yeah, i figure it would be cool to try out HF telemetry on a balloon
[13:45] <Darkside> to see how it holds up compared to the UHF telemetry, and see how far it gets
[13:46] <fsphil> range /should/ be excellent
[13:46] <Darkside> yeah - *should* :P
[13:46] <fsphil> 40mw would be fantastic on uhf
[13:46] <Darkside> assuming my antenna doesn't get twisted up and break
[13:48] <Darkside> aaaaanyway, sleep time for me
[13:48] <Darkside> need to be in at uni early tomorrow
[13:49] <fsphil> night Darkside, good luck!
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[16:31] <earthshine> Evening
[16:42] Nick change: m1x10_creepy -> m1x10
[16:45] <W0OTM> iHAB-2 Launch Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTdsSM9_rq4
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[17:35] <jcoxon> evening
[17:36] <DagoRed> Zuph: Do you want to talk to one of our two zero preassure guys?
[17:36] <DagoRed> I have one of them in the lab right now.
[17:36] <Zuph> DagoRed: Absolutely!
[17:37] <DagoRed> He's in a meeting right now dealing with our HABET program but he'll try to get on shortly.
[17:37] <jcoxon> hey DagoRed and Zuph
[17:37] <jcoxon> DagoRed, when is the next altitude attempt?
[17:37] <Zuph> Alright.
[17:38] <DagoRed> No clue jcoxon, trying to get the time to do it is difficult. However if we're near W0OTM for our predicted landing we have them handle recovery.
[17:38] <DagoRed> If they want to/are available.
[17:39] <jcoxon> good plan
[17:39] <DagoRed> Yeah.
[17:39] <W0OTM> ooo ooo, pick me!
[17:40] <DagoRed> W0OTM: If we're near by we're calling you for sure. It would be so nice to have recovery handled on our end with the simplicity of a shipping labe.
[17:41] <DagoRed> *label.
[17:42] Action: jcoxon is excited about fsphil's launch on sunday
[17:43] Action: Zuph is excited about our launch on Saturday :-p
[17:44] <jcoxon> Zuph, you of white star team?
[17:44] <Zuph> jcoxon: Aye aye
[17:44] <jcoxon> great
[17:44] <jcoxon> i'm involved in the slow progressing AtlanticHalo project
[17:45] <DagoRed> Nice and nice.
[17:45] <jcoxon> Zuph, fsphil's launch will be cool as he'll be sending images over rtty
[17:46] <Zuph> jcoxon: That's really neat. What sort of resolution?
[17:47] <Zuph> jcoxon: We have a lead on some satelite radios which you guys might find interesting.
[17:47] <DagoRed> jcoxon: Let me know how that goes, I would love to see what we can get RTTY to do in our lab.
[17:47] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:hadie
[17:48] <jcoxon> Zuph, its 320x240 at 300baud
[17:48] <jcoxon> with some reed-solomon magic as well
[17:48] <jcoxon> it can be decoded with dl-fldigi and i think eventually he has plans for a sort of distributed listener style system
[17:48] <jcoxon> where multiple listeners can contribute to a single image
[17:49] <jcoxon> Zuph, cool, though would require me to motivate the team more - as i said - slow progress
[17:49] <Zuph> Neat. I take it the modified version of DL-DIGI will decode non-printable ASCII?
[17:49] <Zuph> jcoxon: heh :)
[17:50] <jcoxon> I think so - must admit i'm not sure how fsphil has managed to do this mod
[17:51] <Zuph> Something to look at
[17:51] <jcoxon> but i'm looking forward to the results
[17:52] <jcoxon> i've done an sstv flight before with good results
[17:52] <jcoxon> but this is an interesting approach
[17:52] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4708409149/in/set-72157624065248931/
[17:53] Action: DagoRed nods
[17:57] <m1x10> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx: strange device
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[18:13] <Zuph> Hopefully, we'll ustream our launch :-p http://www.ustream.tv/channel/highball-1
[18:15] <jcoxon> great
[18:18] <DanielRichman> Zuph: fldigi already decodes not printable chars
[18:18] <DanielRichman> it just can't display them
[18:19] <DanielRichman> fsphil iirc just put a bit of code in the function that is called eveyr time a char is received (by the rtty, domex) modules
[18:19] <DanielRichman> and that passed the binary data to his stuff
[18:19] <Zuph> DanielRichman: Ah! This we will have to look into!
[18:19] <DanielRichman> all his stuff is on github. Go have a look
[18:19] <Zuph> We haven't had a chance to dig in, we just took it on faith that fldigi just ignores non-printables.
[18:20] <Zuph> This is excellent news.
[18:20] <DanielRichman> also re non-printables I believe it was your team that sent the email supposing that domex cannot do non-printables?
[18:20] <DanielRichman> I replied to that: it can
[18:21] <Zuph> I think Dan was asking about byte transfer on Domino, I think he misunderstood the difference between symbol rate and bit rate.
[18:21] <DanielRichman> different bytes require a different number of symbols to transmit
[18:21] <DanielRichman> it's always 2 or 3 iirc
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[18:21] <DanielRichman> not symbols; tones
[18:22] <DanielRichman> I'll call them tones to hopefully avoid ambiguity
[18:22] <Zuph> I understand.
[18:22] <DanielRichman> domex has 18 possible tones though the actual tone is not important; the difference between the previuos tone and the current one is the important bit (Incremental shift keying)
[18:22] <DanielRichman> and it has a massive hardcoded table of how tones relate to chars
[18:22] <Zuph> hmm
[18:22] <DanielRichman> lowercase ascii is optimised to be sent quickly
[18:23] <Zuph> Well, we'll be transferring telemetry bytes which do not translate cleanly into ascii bytes.
[18:23] <DanielRichman> (where massive == 500bytes if you compact it well (see my github), iirc)
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[18:32] Nick change: johnnyfif -> johnny5ive
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[18:36] <fsphil> back
[18:37] <DagoRed> cool
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[18:38] <DanielRichman> fsphil: is the above accurate ^^?
[18:38] <fsphil> an yes, everything said above is right
[18:38] <fsphil> I feed of the rtty decoder byte by byte
[18:39] <fsphil> had to do it directly in the rtty modem, as it ignores 0x00 bytes
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[18:58] <fsphil> the little 790 is working well
[18:58] <jcoxon> yay
[18:58] <jcoxon> its a goodie
[18:58] <fsphil> oddly when I tuned up too far the screen said "E" and I couldn't clear it until I switched to another mode and tuned down again
[18:58] <natrium42> oy
[19:11] <rjharrison> Lunch on sat morning from bourne cambridge
[19:12] <jcoxon> would be a good idea to email the ukhas list
[19:13] <natrium42> rjharrison: what's flying?
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[19:19] <natrium42> or who (?)
[19:21] <jcoxon> natrium42, http://projectspaceplanes.com/
[19:22] <natrium42> ah, awesome
[19:22] <rjharrison> A little project that with a viral marketing company
[19:22] <natrium42> with steve randall himself :D
[19:22] <rjharrison> Steve kindly offered to make the payload which has made it easier
[19:22] <nathan7> :o
[19:23] <rjharrison> I have about 3 other commnercial launches that need to be done
[19:23] <rjharrison> any takers :)
[19:23] <nathan7> hmm, I should really try high altitude stuff
[19:23] <nathan7> but it's so expensive
[19:23] <natrium42> haha, we are doing commercial launches already?
[19:23] <natrium42> :D
[19:23] <Upu> should start doing multiple launches under the same balloon
[19:24] <rjharrison> I have one to do for the NEC exhibition centre with involves sending up a Canon EOS50D
[19:24] <Upu> wow
[19:24] <Upu> what lense are they putting on it for you ?
[19:24] <rjharrison> efs 10-22
[19:25] <rjharrison> So wide
[19:25] <Upu> thats going to make some damn nice shots
[19:25] <Upu> thats a heavy camera though
[19:25] <rjharrison> Should do I think thats the plan
[19:25] <rjharrison> Yep heaver than normal I try to avoid that when i can
[19:26] <rjharrison> Then I have another launch for the BBC up north
[19:26] <Upu> sounds like I need to get in the air, any news on Elvington ?
[19:27] <rjharrison> Not yet I'm going to have to put some presure on CAA as they have sorted out this launch for Bourn
[19:27] <rjharrison> My first NOTAM with my name on :)
[19:27] <Upu> grats :)
[19:27] <rjharrison> jcoxon will be pleased
[19:27] <rjharrison> jcoxon, BTW that was test data
[19:27] <Upu> I was wondering if you accidently ended up in the sea
[19:28] <Upu> btw
[19:28] <Upu> if you didn't see it : http://www.flickr.com/photos/avahab/sets/72157624924217198/
[19:28] <Upu> the pink monster :)
[19:28] <jcoxon> rjharrison, pleased about what?
[19:28] <natrium42> in general
[19:28] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:28] <natrium42> :D?
[19:28] <rjharrison> No if i play out the full track it does a big loop back
[19:29] <rjharrison> not in the sea
[19:29] <jcoxon> :-p
[19:29] <rjharrison> jcoxon that I have a NOTAM of my own
[19:29] <rjharrison> Upu that is a pink monster. I like it
[19:30] <jcoxon> oh right
[19:30] <jcoxon> yay
[19:31] <rjharrison> jcoxon how is doctoring
[19:31] <rjharrison> I have been off here for a bit as very busy with work and my gran died 3 weeks ago and that entailed a few busy days
[19:31] <jcoxon> doctoring is busy
[19:32] <rjharrison> Upu you seem to be coming along well
[19:33] <natrium42> jcoxon: how do i repair my back? it hurts
[19:33] <natrium42> :P
[19:33] <jcoxon> natrium42, what did you do to it?
[19:33] <natrium42> just working out
[19:34] <jcoxon> i recommend seeing a doctor
[19:34] <natrium42> lower spine has been hurting for months
[19:34] <fsphil> ever see that episode of the Simpsons, where Homer used the garbage can to fix his back? Yea, don't do that :p
[19:34] <natrium42> and it's not the muscle, as there is no pain if i apply pressure
[19:34] <natrium42> only if i bend forwards or backwards (not side to side)
[19:34] <natrium42> family doctors suck
[19:34] <jcoxon> not sure i can help you over IRC :-p
[19:35] <jcoxon> go for a bit of diclofenac gel
[19:35] <natrium42> one recommended massage (lol)
[19:36] <natrium42> jcoxon: canadian family doctors are the worst
[19:36] <natrium42> there is basically no preventative medicine in canada
[19:37] <natrium42> you only go to emergency room once it's too late
[19:37] <natrium42> and then they fix it
[19:37] <fsphil> that seems oddly wasteful
[19:39] <natrium42> but liek, massage to treat what is most likely nerve or bone problem
[19:39] <natrium42> even i know that's bull
[19:44] <rjharrison> jcoxon how is TA going
[19:45] <rjharrison> I have asked for access to the Hysplit
[19:45] <jcoxon> rjharrison, no new progress
[19:45] <jcoxon> am waiting on my PCBS from seeedstudio
[19:45] <natrium42> bbl
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[19:45] <rjharrison> bye
[19:45] <rjharrison> to slow :(
[19:45] <Upu> sorry to hear about your Gran Rob never great when stuff like that happens
[19:46] <rjharrison> how is habhub doing
[19:46] <Upu> Well I think
[19:46] <Upu> I tend to stay out of it
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[19:46] <Upu> I'll let jcoxon tell you about his mad plan I seem to have been roped into
[19:46] <Upu> :)
[19:46] <jcoxon> haha
[19:46] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:46] <jcoxon> i have a crazy plan
[19:47] <jcoxon> though people need to reply to the email...
[19:47] <Upu> Yes I'll will reply
[19:47] <Upu> at some point
[19:47] <jcoxon> yeah yeah
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[19:48] <Upu> I bought a snow shovel and some "tyre socks" if you're going to insist on sending me to Scotland at the height of winter
[19:48] <jcoxon> insist? you vounteered!
[19:48] <jcoxon> :-p
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[19:48] <Upu> Indeed :)
[19:50] <Upu> Just need to do my PCB design now Rob and I'm good to fly everything else is done
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[19:51] <jcoxon> right will bbl - food time
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[19:52] <Upu> going to try get your launch this weekend rjharrison, there is also one on Sunday too
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[19:56] Action: fsphil crosses fingers
[19:57] <fsphil> putting together the payload atm
[20:00] <Upu> I'm rearranging my weekend around you :)
[20:00] <fsphil> haha
[20:01] <fsphil> going to be one heck of a busy saturday
[20:01] <fsphil> you'd think with the months that it took to get the notam, I'd be more prepared
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[20:28] <nv1k> anyone know a source of archived wind data that doesn't require a captcha?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/xeBFj.png
[20:28] <Laurenceb> noaa?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> ^tadaaa
[20:29] <nv1k> everything i have found from noaa requires a captcha
[20:29] <Laurenceb> theres some sinc function ripples in there as well
[20:29] <Laurenceb> oh
[20:29] <nv1k> which i really don't want to do for a 72 hour flight when the files are only good for 3 hrs :)
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: A spectrum?
[20:31] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Look plausible?
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Tried it with external signal sources?
[20:32] <Laurenceb> nope
[20:32] <Laurenceb> the huistgram is a bit weird ...
[20:32] <Laurenceb> im not 100% convinced its working correctly
[20:32] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[20:56] <fsphil> noo it's moving closer to the atlantic! http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=315641a9c70c851c08fa331a3469a60fa1020385
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I forgot
[20:57] Action: SpeedEvil goes to look at a comet.
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Find cassiopia.
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[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Take the W - and extend the left-hand / by 2-3 times downwards.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Binocs should show it best
[20:58] <fsphil> oh yes, forgot about that
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[21:17] <W0OTM> howdy
[21:17] <jcoxon> hey W0OTM
[21:17] <W0OTM> whats new
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[21:17] <jcoxon> not too much
[21:18] <jcoxon> waiting on my flight computer PCB
[21:19] <W0OTM> vry nice
[21:19] <jcoxon> you?
[21:22] <juxta> morning jcoxon
[21:22] <juxta> slash evening
[21:22] <jcoxon> hey juxta
[21:22] <Upu> yeah evening over here
[21:23] <jcoxon> juxta, haven't found that code yet
[21:23] <jcoxon> i didn't use it in the end
[21:23] <juxta> no worries
[21:23] <jcoxon> just forced the airborne setting each time
[21:23] <juxta> Darkside just asked me for it, I never used it either ;D
[21:26] <fsphil> tip: don't cut polystyrene in the house, or near a keyboard
[21:27] <Upu> haha no garage for that
[21:27] <Upu> also fumes :)
[21:27] <Upu> if you are using hot wire
[21:30] <jcoxon> i suspect i will die young due to the hot wire/polystyrene fumes
[21:31] <Upu> I'm going to make a rig that can do notches properly at the weekend if I get time
[21:31] <jcoxon> oooo cool
[21:31] <juxta> ugh polystyrene fumes
[21:31] <juxta> not fun
[21:31] <Upu> wire raises out of a gap on a cam and back down so you can make perfect slots in the polystyrere
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If you wet it, it doesn't do that. Also - use a thin-bladed _sharp_ knife with a hair of oil on it
[21:39] <DanielRichman> yah knife + glue gun + polystyrene => payload + requirement for hoover
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[21:40] <DanielRichman> tip: suggest building the payload at someone else's house
[21:41] <juxta> actually a very sharp thin bladed knife makes no mess
[21:41] <juxta> but it's a little slow
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Use the right knife, and a teeny bit of oil or soap, and it doesn't actually tear it
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> If you keep it sprayed with water, even if you use a saw, the dust is managable too
[21:46] <Darkside> morning juxta
[21:49] <Upu> just use hot wire its quick and makes nice cuts
[21:53] <Upu> anyway I'm off o7
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[21:55] <fsphil> good advice!
[21:55] <fsphil> too late mind, but I'll remember for next time
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/Chinese-Lantern.jpg
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> - cast in concrete - the bottom - using a hot-wire-cut mould
[22:00] <Zuph> Flight computer code finished just in time for the insurance company to give a "no go" on launch :(
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> :<
[22:02] <jcoxon> eek insurance
[22:02] <Zuph> eek.
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> There was a freedom of information request to the UK met-office about claims on insurance.
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> It had a suspiciously high number of claims - to me.
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> IIRC it was about 3/year
[22:03] <Zuph> What sort of claims?
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> I suspect many of the claims are of the form 'my greenhouse broke, and I found this radiosonde in the next field'.
[22:04] <Zuph> Ah
[22:10] <Laurenceb> wow atmels site is soo slow
[22:10] Action: Laurenceb wonders ho wlong before atmel go bust
[22:10] <Darkside> hmm
[22:10] <Laurenceb> looks like they sold all their servers now as well as the fab plant
[22:10] <Darkside> my copy of dl-fldigi keeps on crashing
[22:10] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had a small fab.
[22:10] <jcoxon> Darkside, eek
[22:11] <Darkside> after about 20 min of decoding anyway
[22:11] <Darkside> it just gets slower and hangs
[22:12] <jcoxon> what version?
[22:12] <Darkside> uhmmm
[22:12] <Darkside> where teh hell is the about window
[22:12] <jcoxon> oh there prob isn't one
[22:13] <jcoxon> well not regardi dl-fldigi
[22:13] <jcoxon> maybe fldigi
[22:13] <jcoxon> what OS?
[22:13] <Darkside> its the version you built for me i think
[22:13] <Darkside> OSX
[22:13] <Darkside> someone built me the latest svn for OSX, a few weeks back
[22:13] <jcoxon> does it have GPS support builtin?
[22:13] <Darkside> yes
[22:13] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[22:14] <Darkside> built: Sunday, 26 September 2010 5:45 PM
[22:14] <Darkside> probably from svn
[22:14] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:14] <jcoxon> thats worrying
[22:15] <jcoxon> could you roll back to the latest binary on github
[22:15] <Darkside> which is oooooold
[22:15] <Darkside> and doesn't have any of the --hab gui stuff
[22:15] <fsphil> have you tried running it on console, see what the last messages are?
[22:15] <jcoxon> yeah it does
[22:15] <Darkside> the older binary i have is 3.11.4
[22:16] <Darkside> fsphil: i'll try that today
[22:16] <Darkside> also i need to get someone to update my xml
[22:16] <fsphil> also watch memory usage if you can
[22:16] <jcoxon> nah Darkside there is a newer binary on there
[22:17] <Darkside> hmm ok
[22:18] <Darkside> hold on, where are the binaries on github?
[22:18] <jcoxon> http://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi
[22:18] <jcoxon> on the right = Downloads button
[22:19] <Darkside> ok
[22:19] <Darkside> its 3.20.23 that i'm using atm
[22:19] <jcoxon> thats the version of fldigi
[22:19] <juxta> morning Darkside
[22:19] <Darkside> morining juxta
[22:19] <jcoxon> but you are using a newer version of the modded bit
[22:19] <Darkside> yeah
[22:19] <Darkside> frack i need to get up
[22:19] <juxta> just finished putting together a new isolator board
[22:20] <juxta> with semi-smart logic woo
[22:20] <Darkside> jcoxon: i'll test out the github version this afternoon
[22:20] <Darkside> cool juxta
[22:20] <Darkside> jcoxon: can you change my xml?
[22:20] <Darkside> sprintf(tx_buffer,"$$DARKSIDE,%u,%02d:%02d:%02d,%s,%s,%ld,%d,%d,%d,%d,%s",counter++,time[0], time[1], time[2],latString,longString,altitude,speed,sats,intTemp,extTemp,voltString);
[22:21] <juxta> are you able to comm to matt's tonight for testing Darkside
[22:21] <juxta> ?
[22:21] <Darkside> juxta: yeah i should be able to
[22:21] <Darkside> when will it go until?
[22:21] <juxta> i think we'll go around 4-5
[22:22] <Darkside> ok, i can get there by bus if need by
[22:22] <Darkside> as i'll be in teh city anyway
[22:22] <juxta> if you get to an obahn station I can grab you
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[22:22] <Darkside> yeah i can do that too
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[22:22] <Darkside> will sort it out a bit later, i need to get ready to head in
[22:23] <juxta> okay
[22:23] <Darkside> i doubt i'll be doing a huge amount before 2pmish today, my seminar is at 1pm
[22:23] <juxta> no worries
[22:23] <Darkside> and thats worth about 25% of my grade...
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Good luck.
[22:24] <juxta> wow them with your application in ballooning ;p
[22:24] <Darkside> well the intro slide to that section is one of the imafes from horus 7 :)
[22:24] <juxta> hehe
[22:25] <jcoxon> Darkside, i'll need an example string
[22:25] <jcoxon> to test it
[22:25] Action: SpeedEvil is using the computer with welding goggles on.
[22:25] Action: SpeedEvil wishes the backlight turned down all the way.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> (dark adapting to go out and look at comet)
[22:26] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,2486,09:50:47,-34.91796,138.60333,25,9,0,36,23,12.1*208A
[22:26] <Darkside> in that string sats and speed are swapped
[22:26] <Darkside> but it should still decide
[22:26] <Darkside> decode*
[22:26] <Darkside> i only changed that code last night
[22:27] <Darkside> anyway, gotta go
[22:27] <juxta> ping fsphil
[22:27] <Darkside> back in a bit
[22:27] <fsphil> hi hi
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[22:28] <juxta> are you still launching this weekend? :)
[22:28] <juxta> we've organised VOX operated recording on the repeater btw :)
[22:28] <fsphil> so far yea, though the prediction isn't just as nice
[22:28] <Laurenceb> i think ive workout out the cc1020 - its very clever
[22:28] <fsphil> nice
[22:28] <Laurenceb> it downconverts digitally from 307.2khz IF to 0
[22:29] <Laurenceb> and you need to acess internal I and Q registers to reconstruct the baseband
[22:29] <Laurenceb> none of these registers are documented so im having a hard time reverse engineering it
[22:30] <juxta> okay fsphil, i'll set the tracker title for our launch tomorrow morning and then change it for yours after that
[22:30] <fsphil> juxta, was there ever a balloon repeater before yours?
[22:30] <Laurenceb> if that is how it works its very good from interface overhead point of view
[22:30] <fsphil> grand
[22:30] <juxta> not as far as I know fsphil
[22:30] Action: Laurenceb needs to do more work on it... tomorrrow i guess
[22:31] <fsphil> that's weird, tomorrow morning is Friday here
[22:34] <fsphil> juxta, what time are you launching?
[22:34] <juxta> yeah, the time difference conveniently means I never launch at the same time as you guys ;)
[22:34] <juxta> sat by the looks of things
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[22:59] <Darkside> i wonder if anyone else has done a HF payload :P
[22:59] <Darkside> well, there was that 29MHz one
[23:00] <Darkside> but that was a square wave, and is hence dodgy as all hell :P
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[23:02] <fsphil> ihab had a 40m cw beacon
[23:02] <Darkside> ahh ok
[23:02] <Darkside> i'm doing 300 baud RTTY on mine :D
[23:03] <fsphil> well that's definitely a first on HF :)
[23:03] <Darkside> outputting similar data to juxta's payload, just about 15m higher :P
[23:04] <juxta> assuming you sort out your string ;)
[23:04] <Darkside> hahaha
[23:04] <Darkside> yes......
[23:04] <Darkside> still need to get that dammit
[23:04] <fsphil> I just had dl-fldigi crash on me, what are the odds is the same problem? :)
[23:04] <juxta> hmm
[23:04] <Darkside> i might go see what civil eng have
[23:04] <juxta> my laptop battery doesnt seem to be taking a charge
[23:04] <juxta> this is not ideal
[23:04] <Darkside> and if htey have nothing then i'll head to whatever hardware store is in teh city
[23:05] <Darkside> anyway, bus time
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[23:11] <Darkside> ok, lets see how well this 3g connection holds up
[23:12] <Darkside> juxta: do you know anywhere in the city that would have it?
[23:12] <Darkside> i was thinking of going to a kite shop
[23:12] <juxta> kite line would be good too
[23:12] <juxta> but I cant think of anywhere in the city
[23:12] <juxta> nearest i can think of is bunnings in kent town
[23:12] <Darkside> ok, i know theres a kite shop on pulteney
[23:14] <Darkside> ill check with civil first, then go to the kite shop
[23:14] <Darkside> if the batteries havent arrived im going to have to go for a walk anyway
[23:16] <Darkside> so i need something that can hold a few kg, right?
[23:16] <SpeedEvil1> fishing too
[23:17] <SpeedEvil1> string is string, basically
[23:17] <juxta> yeah
[23:17] <Darkside> yeah, fishing line would work too
[23:17] <SpeedEvil1> It's fundamentally pretty non-critical.
[23:17] <juxta> fishing line is ok, but i dont like it as it loses strength at knots
[23:17] <Darkside> but that will stretch a lot, right?
[23:17] <Darkside> ahh ok
[23:17] <juxta> and yes, it stretches
[23:17] <Darkside> ill go with kite line
[23:17] <juxta> SpeedEvil1, Darkside's payload it between mine and the balloon
[23:18] <juxta> so I want to make sure it doesnt break :P)
[23:18] <SpeedEvil1> Find any string that will take 20* the load, and you're fine IMO.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil1> Though you want to avoid simply twisted string
[23:18] <Darkside> hey, i have line that can hold a small car :P
[23:18] <juxta> yep that's a definite
[23:18] <juxta> twine is a no no
[23:18] <Darkside> but its 4mm thick
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[23:19] <Darkside> and heeeeeavy
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 8 2010