highaltitude.log.20101005

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[00:54] Action: kd0fxp is excited for the balloon launch tomorrow!
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[00:58] <W0OTM> hiya
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[01:08] <kd0fxp> hello there
[01:09] <kd0fxp> t-minus 11 hours and counting!
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[01:49] <DagoRed> We lauch at 7 am tomorrow..... ugh
[01:49] <DagoRed> 7 am CMT or 1200z
[01:50] <DagoRed> http://twitter.com/SSCL
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[04:45] <Darkside> http://imgur.com/yTmwh&M6wuw
[04:45] <Darkside> w00
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[04:46] <natrium42> :)
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[04:55] <natrium42> interesting, rockoon launches to 40km --> http://www.arcaspace.com/en/home.htm
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[07:26] <earthshine> morning
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[08:25] <nv1k> oooh gonna be a cold launch
[08:27] <earthshine> launch today?
[08:27] <earthshine> From where?
[08:27] <nv1k> Central iowa
[08:28] <earthshine> ahh
[08:28] <earthshine> not much chance of me picking that up from here
[08:28] <nv1k> UK?
[08:28] <earthshine> yep
[08:28] <nv1k> perhaps our next one
[08:29] <earthshine> crossing the Atlantic ?
[08:29] <nv1k> not yet
[08:29] <nv1k> hopefully over semester break
[08:30] <nv1k> but we are trying to get a 3 or 4 day flight up
[08:30] <nv1k> you would have a decent chance of picking up 20m from 35km
[08:33] <nv1k> i'm liking the cold weather for this one though
[08:33] <nv1k> might buy us a little extra altitude, which is what we are going for :)
[08:37] <earthshine> I've only got a 70cm receiver
[08:37] <nv1k> well, time for breakfast before we start setting up
[08:37] <earthshine> good luck
[08:37] <nv1k> ahh, that might make it a little more difficult
[08:38] <earthshine> just a bit
[08:38] <nv1k> 12z launch time
[08:40] <earthshine> will it be up on the spacenear tracker ?
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[09:08] <russss> I need to set up a better HF antenna
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[09:24] <Laurenceb_> hi folks
[09:28] <earthshine> hey
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> theres an openpilot channel - #openpilot
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> seems a bit dead atm
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[10:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-avr-usb-development-board.html
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[11:05] <Darkside> ohi shenki
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[11:05] <Darkside> sup
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[11:40] <Darkside> shenki: just trying to get juxta on IRC now
[11:40] <Darkside> oh wait
[11:40] <Darkside> :P
[11:41] Action: juxta is here!
[11:41] <Darkside> :P
[11:41] <Darkside> shenki: PING
[11:41] <shenki> Darkside: pong
[11:41] <Darkside> heh
[11:42] <shenki> sorry, i unplugged our switch to free up a spot on the powerboard :)
[11:42] <Darkside> where are you IRCing from?
[11:42] <shenki> home
[11:42] <Darkside> ahh ok
[11:43] <shenki> juxta: hello
[11:43] <juxta> hey shenki
[11:43] <shenki> juxta: mark was telling me you're planning a launch this weekned
[11:43] <juxta> yes indeed :)
[11:44] <shenki> i was keen to come along for the chase, if there is room in a car
[11:45] <juxta> oh righto - that should be doable I think!
[11:45] <juxta> looks like we'll have at least 3 cars this time
[11:45] <shenki> cool
[11:45] <Darkside> juxta: thats what we had last time
[11:46] <juxta> yeah - that's more than normal ;p
[11:46] <Darkside> ahh ok :P
[11:46] <shenki> juxta: i should introduce myself. we spoke on irc a year or so back i think, amboar introduced me.
[11:46] <juxta> oh right!
[11:46] <shenki> juxta: im a final year CSE, studying with Darkside
[11:46] <juxta> have we met?
[11:46] <shenki> dont think in person
[11:46] <juxta> alrighty
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[11:47] <shenki> i just missed you at the science week thing at wayville
[11:47] <juxta> oh bummer
[11:47] <shenki> i also know pschultz, kgotez, adhoc
[11:47] <shenki> from open source stuff
[11:48] <juxta> oh awesome, hehe, I think we better make sure you get a seat then ;p
[11:48] <Darkside> juxta: will adrian and matt be heating to VK5GH's place for the launch?
[11:48] <Darkside> i'm just wondeirng how logistics will go
[11:48] <juxta> yeah I think so
[11:49] <Darkside> ok
[11:49] <juxta> I may actually sleep at our place nearby the night before
[11:49] <juxta> so I can get there early
[11:49] <juxta> are you guys able to get transport by chance?
[11:49] <shenki> to the launch? or for the day?
[11:49] <juxta> to the launch site
[11:49] <shenki> should do. where is the launch site?
[11:49] <Darkside> hmm
[11:49] <juxta> mt barker
[11:50] <juxta> if not I'm sure it can be sorted out
[11:51] <juxta> Grant (the Telstra guy) will be driving up
[11:51] <juxta> i just need to make sure there are enough seats to go around
[11:52] <Darkside> heh
[11:52] <Darkside> what time will you be launching?
[11:53] <juxta> likely 9-11
[11:54] <Darkside> ok
[11:54] <Darkside> im not sure about getting to mt barker atm..
[11:55] <Darkside> shenki: how were you planning on getting there?
[11:55] <Darkside> your gf driving?
[11:58] <shenki> Darkside: im just sorting that out
[11:58] <shenki> Darkside: i should be able to drive us there
[11:59] <shenki> Darkside: either by borrowing my gfs car, or my sisters
[11:59] <Darkside> ok
[11:59] <shenki> will confirm tomorrow
[12:00] <Darkside> ok
[12:00] <shenki> Darkside: re: the radio licence stuff, i dont think i'll be able to find time in the next three weeks
[12:01] <shenki> it's going to be flat out as is, don't need anything else to make things busier
[12:01] <Darkside> yeah
[12:10] <Darkside> i'm considering seeing if i can push it back a weekend, until after the final report is done
[12:11] <Darkside> after that things should calm down a bit
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[12:38] <Laurenceb_> http://rossum.posterous.com/
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[13:47] <eroomde> hi chaps
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[13:48] <Darkside> evening squire
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[13:55] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[13:55] <jonsowman> hows things?
[13:55] Action: DagoRed is at 82,000ft right now
[13:55] <DagoRed> w00t!
[13:56] <eroomde> jonsowman: good thanks
[13:56] <eroomde> you're back in cam?
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[13:56] <jonsowman> I am indeed
[13:57] <jonsowman> where are you at present?
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[14:03] <eroomde> jonsowman: west sussex
[14:03] <jonsowman> excellent
[14:03] <jonsowman> home?
[14:03] <eroomde> yep
[14:04] <jonsowman> had a good summer? been doing much?
[14:05] <eroomde> i've been catching up on life and it's been pretty good thanks :) just seeing friends, couch surfing, read
[14:05] <eroomde> -ing, messing about
[14:05] <eroomde> i shall get back into the swing of thinking eventually
[14:05] <eroomde> but not just yet :)
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[14:07] <jonsowman> good stuff
[14:07] <eroomde> i'm doing the norfolk coast walk with a friend this weekend which should be fun
[14:07] <jonsowman> any plans for coming year?
[14:07] <jonsowman> nice
[14:08] <eroomde> i'm travelling until christmas, working in cambridge on the robotic airship (this time with rockets incase it gets caught by an alpine updraft) from jan to may, then travelling again
[14:08] <eroomde> then probsbaly PhD
[14:08] <jonsowman> wow
[14:08] <jonsowman> very nice, sounds great
[14:08] <Randomskk> sounds like a lot of fun
[14:08] <eroomde> yeah i'm looking forward to this year
[14:09] <Randomskk> some more keen cusf freshers at the socfair today
[14:09] <Randomskk> couldn't stop them signing up if we tried
[14:09] <eroomde> and will put some time towards atlantic halo
[14:09] <eroomde> oh awesome
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[14:09] <eroomde> we often get 300 signatures which results in two or three good people
[14:09] <eroomde> which is about ideal :)
[14:10] <eroomde> jonsowman / Randomskk i got a call from some ad agency which seems to have just about the rest of ukhas employed for some silly advert stunt. they want to use the flight predictor
[14:10] <eroomde> said yes cool fine
[14:10] <jonsowman> interesting
[14:11] <jonsowman> first I've heard of it
[14:11] <Randomskk> advertisers do seem to love this whole space thing
[14:11] <eroomde> i think dropping memory cards in paper aeroplanes and having people find them
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[14:11] <Randomskk> interesting
[14:11] <Randomskk> well
[14:12] <eroomde> oh and guess what
[14:12] <eroomde> another NHK TV show offer
[14:12] <eroomde> I'm less sure about that one given the wierdness of the last one
[14:14] <eroomde> jonsowman Randomskk : it was projectspaceplanes.com
[14:14] <juxta> heya eroomde
[14:14] <eroomde> i think it's a viral thing for samsung
[14:14] <jonsowman> oh right
[14:14] <eroomde> hey juxta - how're tricks?
[14:15] <juxta> good good!
[14:15] <juxta> any news re Ed in Aus? ;p
[14:16] <eroomde> it'll probably remain ed in cam i think. I am dissapointed but the guy didn't get this block of funding (it was for a couple of post grads and a couple of post docs) so it ruled out a jan 2011 start
[14:16] <Randomskk> a viral for how tough samsung memory cards are eh
[14:16] <eroomde> Randomskk: yep
[14:16] Action: fsphil just saw the coolest bit of lightning :)
[14:16] <eroomde> juxta: and there are a couple of cambridge things starting in spet 2011 that could be quite good. never say never though
[14:16] <jonsowman> hmm
[14:16] <Gnea> HABET just broke 100k feet
[14:16] <juxta> ahh, well we can always hope :)
[14:16] <eroomde> Gnea: thanks. are youinvolved with the project? do you have a tracking link?
[14:17] <Gnea> eroomde: I'm sitting in the SSCL lab right now, yeah. my first flight.
[14:17] <DagoRed> eroomde: I didn't have time to make the bot, we're in the lab right now.
[14:17] <Gnea> no tracking link
[14:18] <juxta> certainly seems to be the season for commercially backed launches
[14:18] <eroomde> Gnea: congrats then!
[14:18] <eroomde> what's the location?
[14:18] <Gnea> thank ye
[14:18] <DagoRed> We're not commercially backed juxta
[14:18] <Gnea> Iowa
[14:18] <juxta> no, I meant the samsung backed launch ;)
[14:18] <DagoRed> Ahh.
[14:18] <juxta> with Steve and Rob involved
[14:20] <DagoRed> 103k ft and still movin.
[14:21] <eroomde> Gnea / DagoRed - what's the mass, balloon size and payload OOI?
[14:21] <DagoRed> Uh oh... I heard we may end up floating.
[14:21] <DagoRed> 3000 gram
[14:21] <eroomde> wow a biggun
[14:21] <m1x10> oh
[14:21] <DagoRed> Yup.
[14:21] <m1x10> we have balloon flight?
[14:21] <juxta> that should end up quite high then hopefully :)
[14:22] <DagoRed> Our payload is flying our back up transmitter only (and GPS puck)
[14:22] <DagoRed> Payload weight, 14 oz
[14:22] <m1x10> DagoRed no camera's?
[14:22] <DagoRed> net lift is just around a pound.
[14:22] <juxta> awesome
[14:22] <DagoRed> m1x10: Altitude record.
[14:22] <m1x10> cameras*
[14:22] <juxta> what's the expected burst DagoRed?
[14:22] <m1x10> ah lol
[14:22] <DagoRed> juxta: 130k
[14:22] <juxta> sweet, good luck :)
[14:22] <m1x10> world record?
[14:23] <DagoRed> arhab record.
[14:23] <eroomde> gosh that's certainly got to be a contender
[14:23] <DagoRed> We're currently 13, 25, and 48 on their list.
[14:23] <eroomde> miniscule payload under a monster that big - good luck chaps
[14:23] <m1x10> mhh, I would like to see some pics from 130k
[14:23] <m1x10> any online tracker available?
[14:23] <Gnea> would there be much of a difference from 120k?
[14:24] <Gnea> no
[14:24] <DagoRed> m1x10: We're thinking if we try something.
[14:24] <juxta> eroomde, we've got our airborne comms repeater down to 150grams or so, it's going to fly on most of our payloads now
[14:24] <DagoRed> We might run a small camera but the optics would suck.
[14:25] Action: DagoRed wonders if we should start a highest altitude record picture contest for balloons.
[14:25] <eroomde> yeah pictures are fun
[14:26] <eroomde> we never attempted an alt attempt but we got a 200g payload which included a seriosuly surgically lightened Canon Powershot A560
[14:26] <m1x10> im in :)
[14:26] <fsphil> any restrictions on resolution? I've got a lovely little camera for 640x480, light as a feather
[14:26] <eroomde> I got it from 210g to 63g. I wasn't pretty but it worked
[14:26] <m1x10> lol eroomde
[14:26] <m1x10> you raped it
[14:27] <DagoRed> nice eroomde
[14:27] <m1x10> are there many unused things inside a canon?
[14:27] <eroomde> yes
[14:27] Action: DagoRed current altitude at 109,430ft
[14:27] <eroomde> well everything other than the plastic lens unit and the single main pcb went
[14:27] <m1x10> oh
[14:28] <m1x10> raped
[14:28] <m1x10> 100%
[14:28] <Gnea> eroomde: sounds like a fun project
[14:28] <eroomde> all of the chasis, buttons, lcd, various pcb bits that turned out to be useless, flash circuitry, autofocus motor and mechanics, etc
[14:28] <m1x10> lool
[14:28] <m1x10> autofocus motor and mechanics
[14:28] <eroomde> just glass, sensor, and main pcb. and made an external sd card enclosure
[14:28] <m1x10> yeah quite smart to remove it
[14:29] <m1x10> you put me in thoughts
[14:29] <eroomde> made a new chasis out of blue foam and with a badger 1 board the whole lot fitted in a Gu ice-cream box
[14:29] <Randomskk> delicious gu ice cream
[14:30] <jonsowman> :)
[14:30] <DagoRed> 111ft now.
[14:30] <m1x10> haha
[14:30] <eroomde> these boxes are brilliant by the way
[14:30] <DagoRed> 111kft now I mean.
[14:30] <eroomde> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://moblog.net/media/e/u/p/euphro/gu-ice-cream.jpg&imgrefurl=http://moblog.net/prev/171358/&h=387&w=516&sz=48&tbnid=ejidw5Dt77-ZqM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgu%2Bice%2Bcream&zoom=1&q=gu+ice+cream&usg=__DSZKnmel0sDNk-hQaVh_aOVv5NU=&sa=X&ei=VjarTNKpD8Hc4AaC5oDFCA&ved=0CCcQ9QEwAw
[14:30] <jonsowman> terminal fail
[14:30] <eroomde> whoops yes
[14:30] <DagoRed> Yay! Estimated time to burst is 40 minutes.
[14:30] <eroomde> DagoRed: wow you're really in with a chance here
[14:30] <fsphil> 34km .. that's already really high up
[14:30] Action: DagoRed nods
[14:31] <DagoRed> 342224m according to falcon right now
[14:31] <m1x10> i bet 40.5km
[14:31] <jonsowman> nice boxes
[14:31] <m1x10> i bet 5$ for 40.5km
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> I bet -10$ for 60km
[14:31] <m1x10> hahahahaha
[14:31] <m1x10> lets bet
[14:31] <m1x10> gambling?
[14:32] <m1x10> thats the worD?
[14:32] <Gnea> ...
[14:32] <m1x10> DagoRed how much do u bet?
[14:32] <eroomde> i've just graduated so i have no money
[14:32] <m1x10> everybody post your paypal accounts :)
[14:32] <Randomskk> if you're going to take SpeedEvil's bet, I'll wager -$50 for 30km
[14:32] <eroomde> well, negative money
[14:32] <DagoRed> m1x10: I'm on recovery so I'm not betting. I'm just hopeing we can find the damn thing.
[14:33] <m1x10> but DagoRed if u win u get enough money to build another one :)
[14:33] <DagoRed> m1x10: We're slated to fly again next week :)
[14:33] <Gnea> we get money to build another one anyway :)
[14:34] <eroomde> DagoRed / Gnea do you chaps have a project website?
[14:34] <m1x10> hehe
[14:34] <DagoRed> sscl.iastate.edu
[14:34] <eroomde> thanks
[14:35] <DagoRed> Next flight I'll have a bot in #sscl
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[14:35] <jonsowman> 404?
[14:35] Action: DagoRed pokes nv1k
[14:35] <DagoRed> jonsowman: http://sites.google.com/site/ssclisu/
[14:36] <eroomde> wow you guys have entire labs and courses on this stuff
[14:36] <eroomde> that's pretty awesome
[14:36] <jonsowman> thanks :)
[14:36] <DagoRed> our server died so we're running off of google sites for now
[14:36] <nv1k> only one course
[14:36] <jonsowman> I see
[14:36] <nv1k> and it is kind of a joke lol
[14:37] <DagoRed> 116,000 ft right now!
[14:37] <eroomde> nv1k: i guess that is often the problem with these things. if they look to good to be true they usually are
[14:37] <nv1k> well it is primarily a freshman level course
[14:37] <eroomde> and you feel you should probably take the more heavyweight courses in nonlinear control or whatever
[14:38] <m1x10> DagoRed can you type it in km plz?
[14:38] <DagoRed> eroomde: You get credit and an A ususually for building a balloon payload so I wouldn't be that disapointed.
[14:38] <m1x10> im boring to run a converter every time :)
[14:38] <jonsowman> 116 000 feet = 35.3568 kilometers
[14:38] <jonsowman> wow
[14:38] <jonsowman> impressive
[14:38] <eroomde> i think that just beats the highest we've been
[14:38] <nv1k> 35.7km right now
[14:38] <m1x10> I bet $5 for 39km
[14:38] <eroomde> (we = CUSF rather than ukhas)
[14:38] <DagoRed> 35,727 m
[14:38] <Gnea> it's still below our max
[14:39] <m1x10> ascend rate?
[14:39] <DagoRed> http://www.arhab.org/records/records/haltitude.html
[14:39] <juxta> just beat what I got last flight, 35,354m (1000g balloon though)
[14:39] <DagoRed> crap, we lost GPS again
[14:40] <m1x10> oh, 39130 m
[14:40] <eroomde> DagoRed: what GPS areyou usuing?
[14:40] <Gnea> jerry507_mac: wake up
[14:40] <DagoRed> 118 308 ft
[14:40] <nv1k> garmin 18x
[14:40] <DagoRed> 36.06 km
[14:41] <m1x10> I bet $5 for >39.140m
[14:41] <m1x10> lol
[14:41] <m1x10> I bet $5 for 39.140m
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> tbh i suspect its hard to get past 36km
[14:42] <fsphil> I bet $10 for at least 35km
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> hard=~impossible
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> the superpressure effects seem to stop you with latex envelopes
[14:42] <nv1k> yeah
[14:42] <DagoRed> 36.295 km
[14:42] <eroomde> yeah you run out of atmosphere very very quickly above about 36
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> heh
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> maybe 36.2 yes :P
[14:43] <m1x10> you should have attached a tiny rocket and launch it right before the balloon was going to burst
[14:43] <fsphil> strange, it's now the highest thing on the planet right now
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> rjharrison thought hed get to 40 with his huge envelope
[14:43] <m1x10> that would give you some height :)
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> but it stopped around 36km
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> apparently from superpressure
[14:44] <nv1k> 36.5km
[14:44] <nv1k> ascent rate <500ft/m
[14:44] <m1x10> yeah yeah
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> small envelope and ultra light payload may be a bit better
[14:44] <eroomde> m1x10: or quite a big rocket
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> or worse
[14:44] <m1x10> eroomde, wouldnt this increase weight?
[14:44] <Gnea> eroomde: hehe
[14:45] <DagoRed> 36.617 km 120k ft
[14:45] <m1x10> yeah yeah
[14:45] <eroomde> m1x10: sure yes
[14:45] <eroomde> but you could launch your biggish rocket from lower, say 30km
[14:45] <eroomde> and try and get to, say, 100km
[14:45] <DagoRed> 17 minutes to expected burst
[14:45] <m1x10> lol
[14:45] <m1x10> DagoRed: i think it will not burst
[14:46] <eroomde> DagoRed: my fingers are crossed for you - keep the updates coming
[14:46] <m1x10> and stay up there
[14:46] <DagoRed> m1x10: We were just saying that.
[14:46] <nv1k> down to ~300 ft/m
[14:46] <m1x10> :p
[14:46] <DagoRed> FUCK, recovery is not happening.
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[14:46] <eroomde> why?
[14:46] <juxta> is there a cutdown DagoRed?
[14:47] <DagoRed> There is not a cut down system on this one. We made this an altitude record for a reason.
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> wheres the tracker?
[14:47] <DagoRed> Oh well, these electronics are expendible but that'll be #2 payload we havent' recovered.
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> wheres the track?
[14:48] <eroomde> there isn't one
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> fairdoos
[14:48] <m1x10> DagoRed, is it using APRS?
[14:48] <nv1k> yeah but our igate'ing is broken
[14:48] <m1x10> why?
[14:48] <m1x10> give me callsign
[14:48] <nv1k> IT guy fubar'ed our network
[14:48] <DagoRed> lat: 41.74016 long: -93.09256
[14:48] <nv1k> its not on national aprs
[14:48] <chrisreis53_> KD0FXP is the callsign for the payload
[14:48] <m1x10> ee
[14:48] <nv1k> kd0fxp @ 144.99mhz
[14:49] <m1x10> why 144.9 and not 144.8?
[14:49] <m1x10> at 144.8 you get igated for sure
[14:49] <nv1k> ?
[14:49] <juxta> yes, but you'll hit hundred of igates and piss everyone off
[14:49] <nv1k> nat freq is 144.39
[14:49] <DagoRed> juxta hit the nail on the head.
[14:49] <juxta> the APRS network would be a packetstorm
[14:50] <m1x10> juxta its a rare event
[14:50] <nv1k> burst
[14:50] <nv1k> darn
[14:50] <DagoRed> 121,582ft
[14:50] <eroomde> alt?
[14:50] <m1x10> km?
[14:50] <m1x10> :p
[14:50] <eroomde> the highest recorded that is
[14:50] <juxta> not in the USA it wouldnt be, it's very flat and they have a huge number of digipeaters
[14:50] <kd0fxp> oh well, it was an old balloon
[14:50] <nv1k> 128kft is highest
[14:51] <juxta> even with conservative paths you'd still be getting in everywhere
[14:51] <DagoRed> 37.057km
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[14:51] <m1x10> DagoRed still ascending?
[14:51] <juxta> well done DagoRed & team
[14:51] <DagoRed> m1x10: burst
[14:51] <m1x10> oh
[14:51] <m1x10> ok
[14:51] <m1x10> lol
[14:51] <m1x10> i lost the bet
[14:51] <m1x10> haha
[14:51] <DagoRed> 2 year old balloon for the fail
[14:51] <nv1k> would have been nice to have a balloon
[14:51] <eroomde> well congrats anyway
[14:51] <DagoRed> Thanks!
[14:52] Action: DagoRed gets ready for recovery
[14:52] <eroomde> that's a super effort, getting that high
[14:52] <m1x10> yeah be good to flight another one with cam this time !
[14:52] <nv1k> mostly did it to get rid of an old balloon and the helium stockpile
[14:52] <DagoRed> hahaha, we're at 97kft already
[14:52] <eroomde> i think a lot of this trick might be down to picking the right atmospheric conditions
[14:52] <nv1k> upper atmos doesn't change too much
[14:52] <fsphil> congrats ! that's an amazing altitude
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:53] <jonsowman> congratulations :)
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> They come down _fast_ at that alt.
[14:53] Nick change: DagoRed -> DagoRed}revcov
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[14:53] <juxta> fsphil, repeater flys again this weekend, will get you a recording this time ;)
[14:54] <fsphil> brilliant juxta
[14:54] <fsphil> looking forward to hearing that
[14:54] <juxta> only being used by the chase teams/launch site etc though, and a few people tracking perhaps
[14:54] <juxta> not for general public use
[14:54] <juxta> we'll do a talk-through one for that soon
[14:55] <nv1k> well, time to start building the ZP balloon lol
[14:57] <eroomde> nv1k: good luck with that!
[14:57] <juxta> alrighty, bed time here
[14:57] <nv1k> thanks
[14:57] <eroomde> are you planning on building one from scratch?
[14:57] <nv1k> yeah
[14:57] <eroomde> have you built one before?
[14:58] <nv1k> not a full balloon
[14:58] <nv1k> several test panels
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[14:59] <eroomde> that's quite an undertaking!
[14:59] <eroomde> we built a small one once
[14:59] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK80MXHQ5hA
[14:59] <nv1k> ours will not be terribly large
[14:59] <eroomde> it took about 4 bajillion man hours
[15:00] <nv1k> volume?
[15:00] <nv1k> design alt and payload wt?
[15:00] <eroomde> 2007 = can't remember for the life of me
[15:00] <eroomde> that was just a proof of concept to test welding and design
[15:00] <nv1k> ahh
[15:00] <eroomde> i think i calced it would take something like 300g to 30km
[15:01] <eroomde> so not much
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[15:01] <eroomde> we wanted to try it for our rockoon but have decided that a couple of 3kg latex will be easier
[15:02] <nv1k> heh
[15:02] <Gnea> I still haven't seen a rockoon launch yet
[15:02] <nv1k> thats something we are toying with at the moment
[15:02] <eroomde> no - they're not the easiest of things!
[15:02] <nv1k> the cluster of latex vs zp
[15:02] <eroomde> it's definitely an order of magnitude or two harder than a balloon launch i think
[15:04] Action: nv1k dislikes eagle at the moment
[15:05] <eroomde> it has its quirks
[15:05] <Randomskk> try kicad
[15:06] <nv1k> i have
[15:08] <eroomde> Randomskk: in a couple of sentances, what do you think of it and what would interest an eagle user about it? ignoring that it's FOSS (not dismissing, just ignoring)
[15:08] <Randomskk> routing shows clearances as thin lines around what you're doing
[15:09] <Randomskk> file format is text based so can be processed with scripts and kept in git way more efficiently
[15:09] <eroomde> NICE
[15:09] <eroomde> what are the libs like and assuming they're not as complete as eagle, what is footprint/part creation like?
[15:10] <Randomskk> can't talk about foorprint/part creation yet as I've not tried. libs are not as complete as eagle but not that far off, certainly for 95% of what you use.
[15:10] <Randomskk> there is way increased decoupling between schematic and pcb editor, which is both good and bad
[15:10] <Randomskk> you can still forward/back annotate, but when drawing circuits you don't specify footprint, you pick that later
[15:10] <eroomde> i see
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> ive created footprints and parts
[15:11] <Randomskk> but so far I've not had to actually make any parts. I don't think it's too hard, but I also understand it to not be entirely as easy as eagle
[15:11] <eroomde> i am used to that as we had proteus at school
[15:11] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: any good?
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> heh those were the days
[15:11] <Randomskk> I understand you can actually use a script to make a part
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> proteus
[15:11] <eroomde> i prefer it in a lot of ways actually - you can get on with design without actually having to pick parts
[15:11] <Randomskk> e.g. a python script could output the pads for a regular design
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> its hard to learn at first
[15:11] <eroomde> not as *easy* as eagle?
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> but then soi is eagle
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> no
[15:11] <eroomde> eagle is horrible!
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> its not as noob friendly
[15:12] <Randomskk> eagle part creation isn't awful
[15:12] <eroomde> yes it is
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> well yeah
[15:12] <eroomde> compared to proteus and altium is rape
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> i jumped stright into making parts in kicad
[15:12] <eroomde> it's
[15:12] <Randomskk> ah. I've not used proteus or altium.
[15:12] <eroomde> the library and multiple session management makes me want to stab my eyes out
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> we used proteus at school
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> i meant to make my usb board in kicad but i gave up simply as making all the parts again was a pain
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> whereas i had eagle libs
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> but tbh the only bad thing abouit kicad is the gui
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> its like eagle 3.0 on *nix
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> full of goofy glitches
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> but the rest works
[15:14] <nv1k> i started switching to geda
[15:14] <nv1k> geda hasn't seemed to bad
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> oh finally
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/ARM%20CortexM3%20STM32/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/ARM%20CortexM3%20STM32/Compilling%20with%20float&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D758000626BE2B829C32145B9EB5739142DC17E&currentviews=4600
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> geda just seemed less organised to me
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> but its probably had more development put into it
[15:15] <Randomskk> also mostly linux only
[15:16] <Randomskk> which is a bit unfriendly if windows/mac users want to see designs
[15:16] <Randomskk> well it can run on windows and mac, I think, it's just a massive pain
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> ^ Posted: 6/19/2008 3:56 PM
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> thats very good imo
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> approaching IAR system soft float lib
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> so MAC gets about 1MFLOP on 72mhz stm32
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: have you seen openpilot?
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Isn't there a MAC instruction?
[15:19] <Randomskk> is it part of openmulticopter?
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> nope
[15:25] <Randomskk> oh, huh. I see it
[15:25] <Randomskk> pretty PCBs
[15:25] <Randomskk> nice
[15:25] <Randomskk> getting more and more annoyed that I didn't get mine made and working like a year ago
[15:25] <Randomskk> had all the parts, just needed a lot of development time
[15:26] <Randomskk> everyone is doing cool flight computers and motor controllers, and most likely better than I can :P
[15:26] <Randomskk> the usefulness of making my own instead of just building a quadcopter is going down fast. especially for the motor controller
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> youre welcome to some of my pcbs
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> i have 14
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> i dont like the multiple boards
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> the really cool bit about it is they rolled their own rtos and have some seriously hardcore EKF code
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Why not do it all in one?
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> id be tempted to try and port the code to my hardware
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> 3.2mm PCB, motor-mounts at the corners?
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: exactly
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:29] <Randomskk> hmm
[15:29] <Randomskk> that's quite an interesting idea
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> i meant exactly to one board
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> not that crazy idea
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> :P
[15:30] <Randomskk> you /could/ put the motor controllers on the same pcb as the flight controller
[15:30] <Randomskk> and the power supply and all that.
[15:30] <Randomskk> you'd just connect the battery and motors up
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> they even have a si4432 board with a dedicated stm32 lol
[15:30] <Randomskk> heck, make the frame from FR4
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: vibration
[15:30] <Randomskk> it'd be silly, but a quadcopter shaped PCB cut out of a panel :P
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> which reminds me i need vibration isolating mounts
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> the openpilot svn and forum is a goldmine
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> they really know their stuff
[15:31] <Randomskk> given as I have no plans for anything other than four rotors, putting the motor control on the same pcb as the flight computer is definitely a bit interesting
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> lots of people from oregon uni
[15:31] <Randomskk> potentially drop per unit costs even further, and no need for interconnects or wires
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> http://forums.openpilot.org/topic/954-an-ekf-coming-in-c/
[15:31] <Randomskk> nice
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> the code is mad
[15:33] Nick change: Upu_ -> Upu
[15:36] <Laurenceb_> http://svn.openpilot.org/filedetails.php?repname=OpenPilot&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fflight%2FAHRS%2Finsgps.c
[15:36] <Laurenceb_> i hope they didnt do that by hand
[15:36] <Randomskk> oh wow
[15:36] <Laurenceb_> Pnew = (I+F*T)*P*(I+F*T)' + T^2*G*Q*G'
[15:37] <Laurenceb_> worked out by hand for individual elements
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> It's like the minecraft of coding.
[15:37] <Laurenceb_> for 13 component state vector
[15:37] <Laurenceb_> madness
[15:37] <Randomskk> that is crazy
[15:38] Action: SpeedEvil has been avoiding minecraft.
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> I could get very, very addicted to that.
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[15:39] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders what % speed increase they got
[15:41] <Laurenceb_> there seems to be a big flamewar on the forum about unscented versus extended kalman
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> i think it can be summised as unscented recovers better from massive deviations between filter state and reality, but suffers from about 3x the FLOPs
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> im very impressed by the sensor oversampling and fir downsampling before the kalman
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> someone linked this a possible best of both worldshttp://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/mpe/2009/507370.pdf
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[15:47] <Randomskk> that does look like an excellent project
[15:47] <Randomskk> again the usefulness of doing stuff myself is called into question. hmm
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[15:50] <Zuph> /me needs to get into ARM development.
[15:50] <Zuph> Damn errant space.
[15:51] <Zuph> Even the smallest STM32 would make my current worries of RAM and Floating Point Ops disappear. Programming might be fun again.
[15:52] <Randomskk> stm32s are really nice
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> avr is good for floating point
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> ~200kflops
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> as opposed to 1mflop with stm32
[15:52] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: which avr/clock
[15:52] <eroomde> ?
[15:52] <Laurenceb_> 20mhz atmega version5.5 core
[15:53] <eroomde> cool
[15:53] <Zuph> Currently using AVR. The speed isn't the issue as much as the RAM use caused by tossing float types around.
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> using the avr-gcc math lib
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> theres a fixed point lib thats even faster on the forum
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> or ask geckosenator on #electronics
[15:53] <Laurenceb_> gtg, bus to catch
[15:53] <Randomskk> back in a bit
[15:53] <eroomde> hi Zuph
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> geckosenator is the fixed point dev
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[15:54] <Zuph> Hi eroomde
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[15:54] <eroomde> have not seen you on here before (I've not been around so much lately). That makes sense (RAM usage)
[15:55] <Zuph> I've just started lurking. I'm helping Dan-K2VOL with his new Transatlantic Crossing attempts.
[15:55] <eroomde> ah great
[15:56] <eroomde> one of the great HAB frontiers
[15:56] <eroomde> i heartily approve of the opnness
[15:58] <Zuph> Hopefully we manage to drop lots of expensive batteries and electronics on Europe this time around.
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[16:22] Action: doughecka is helping out on the transatlantic crossing team
[16:22] <doughecka> zing! :P
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[16:50] <eroomde> doughecka: awesome
[16:50] <eroomde> it's a properly exciting project!
[16:50] <eroomde> i'm going to try and set up a decent HF listening station using my car and my hilltop
[16:51] <doughecka> sweet
[16:51] Action: doughecka should probably email the local ham mailing list about this event
[16:51] <doughecka> now that I'm thinking about it
[16:53] <meefs> heh
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[17:26] <DanielRichman> eroomde: if you start messing with HF you can always talk to me on the school HF rig ;')
[17:26] <DanielRichman> hi, btw, haven't seen you in a while
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[17:48] <fsphil> yay, all seems to be good with the IAA. I just need to put together the payload and get the helium now
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:49] <fsphil> oh, and make the antenna
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[17:55] <Laurenceb> hi
[18:03] Action: MrCraig 's radio arrived. Not legal to transmit, tiny antenna so haven't recieved a thing, but soo exited to play with it
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[18:07] <fsphil> oooh I remember doing that :) I only got my first radio this year
[18:07] <MrCraig> did ya ever find anyone transmitting? lol
[18:07] <fsphil> nah, ages before I heard anyone on the 2m band
[18:08] <MrCraig> I've turned on some memory mode and now can't adjust the dial - guess it's time to RTFM
[18:08] <fsphil> yep, they can be complicated beasties
[18:08] <fsphil> this your 790r?
[18:08] <MrCraig> yeah
[18:09] <MrCraig> arrived today :-)
[18:09] <fsphil> best bet is to find out the frequency of the nearest 70cm repeaters
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[18:10] <fsphil> even if they're not being used, they should put out a morse code identifier every now and then
[18:10] <LazyLeopard> See http://www.ukrepeater.net/index.html
[18:10] <fsphil> if the radio can tune up high enough, you might also hear the PMR radios on 446 mhz
[18:10] <MrCraig> I'll try to find one - so far now though all I've found is a tone which - when I tune either side of it, it sounds like a scale.
[18:10] <MrCraig> PMR?
[18:11] <fsphil> yea, little license-free walkie talkies
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[18:11] <fsphil> most signals on 70cm will be FM
[18:11] <MrCraig> so I might pick up store walkies and local taxi cabs? lol
[18:12] <fsphil> possibly
[18:12] <MrCraig> What freq.s do airlines operate on? I'm positioned between three of them but would bet the radio isn't suitable
[18:13] <fsphil> the normal frequences are too low, between 108 and 130 mhz I believe
[18:13] <MrCraig> oooh I'm picking up data
[18:13] <MrCraig> sounds like the samples I've heard downloaded from the wiki for the balloons
[18:13] <MrCraig> :-P
[18:13] <fsphil> it could be
[18:14] <fsphil> (data that is, not a balloon)
[18:14] <fsphil> you could try listening out for my payload when I get it launched
[18:14] <fsphil> though the antenna might be a little too small
[18:15] <MrCraig> well I also have a four whip that I've not yet tried attaching, and live in a block of flats reasonably high so could go to the top and try - it's worth a shot for the fun element
[18:15] <MrCraig> the four whip is a car mount (which is exactly what I intend to do with it ultimately)
[18:15] <fsphil> I could hear the last launch with a little magmount whip
[18:16] <fsphil> though actually decoding strings proved difficult
[18:16] <MrCraig> the other experiment I could try, is running what I'm picking up now through dl-fldigi in the hopes it can pull something out
[18:17] <fsphil> brb
[18:17] <MrCraig> :-)
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[18:19] <MrCraig> hmm, some kind of beacon too - wow this is fun in a dull kinda way lol
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[18:23] <MrCraig> (will be less dull when I have the electronics and can transmit of course)
[18:32] <LazyLeopard> You could laso try listening for amsats
[18:33] <MrCraig> ameture satalites? This is a new world to me!
[18:34] <MrCraig> hehe
[18:34] <LazyLeopard> http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php
[18:37] <MrCraig> I had no idea these things were up there
[18:39] <MrCraig> found two tones about a second apart... hmm..
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[19:26] <DagoRed> wow, that recovery didn't go as well as I would have liked.
[19:27] <MrCraig> ?
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[19:28] <DagoRed> We launched a balloon earlier.
[19:29] <DagoRed> We went for a high altitude record on arhab and fell short by a lot more than we predicted. Our balloon was 2 years old which I think was the only reason why we fell so short.
[19:29] <jcoxon> evevning all
[19:30] <MrCraig> :-\
[19:30] <MrCraig> evening jcoxon
[19:30] <LazyLeopard> DagoRed: Burst early? Where'd you launch from?
[19:30] <jcoxon> evening
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[19:31] <LazyLeopard> evening jcoxon
[19:31] <Randomskk> jcoxon: what is it with medics and cusf?
[19:31] <jcoxon> hey LazyLeopard, long time
[19:31] <jcoxon> Randomskk, got another one?
[19:31] <LazyLeopard> Oh, I lurk...
[19:31] <Randomskk> of everyone we signed up today, they were all natscis, engineers or medics
[19:31] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/hVrXTRUZ
[19:31] <Randomskk> well, I think. maybe some compscis
[19:31] <jcoxon> medics are super clever :-p
[19:31] <Randomskk> but like at least three medics
[19:31] <Laurenceb> cana nyone check my code
[19:31] <jcoxon> not
[19:31] <Laurenceb> its not working :(
[19:32] <Laurenceb> led never comes on at ss_low even
[19:32] <jcoxon> Randomskk, that said i do alot of medicine these days
[19:32] <jcoxon> very little ballooning
[19:32] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[19:32] <Laurenceb> #define SS_LOW PORTB &=~(1<<2) #define SS_HIGH PORTB |=(1<<2)
[19:32] Action: DagoRed back
[19:32] <DagoRed> LazyLeopard: We launched from Ames IA
[19:32] <LazyLeopard> Randomskk: Societies fair today?
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[19:33] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: Got your Intermediate yet?
[19:33] <Randomskk> LazyLeopard: yup
[19:34] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, gosh no
[19:34] <jcoxon> working far too much
[19:34] <LazyLeopard> Me neither...
[19:34] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: it looks like it should work...
[19:34] <Randomskk> try a more simple example, e.g. replace SS_LOW with your actual PORTB and try =(1<<2) to start with (or 0)
[19:34] <Laurenceb> this is very weird
[19:35] <DanielRichman> if SS is attached to an LED put a SS_LOW at the start of main()
[19:35] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:35] <DanielRichman> after the DDR setup
[19:35] <Laurenceb> buspirate programmer is so slow
[19:35] <LazyLeopard> Randomskk: I think it was just CUAS I joined, 32 years ago...
[19:35] <Laurenceb> 5 minutes ot flash it
[19:35] <jcoxon> awkward meeting today when they realised i over do my european working directive by 20hrs a week
[19:35] <jcoxon> oops
[19:35] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: avrdude has a setting for speed
[19:35] <Laurenceb> t may be the micro - i thought the programmer was fried, but it seems 100% ok
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[19:36] <Randomskk> LazyLeopard: haha indeed, they are still around and at the fair
[19:36] <Laurenceb> maybe its very busted but can be flashed at low speed
[19:36] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: also I believe that in order to clear spif you have to explicitly read SPDR and SPCR in a certain order
[19:36] <Randomskk> jcoxon: that is a lot of hours a week to overdo
[19:36] <Laurenceb> oh yes so you do
[19:36] <Laurenceb> thanks
[19:36] <DagoRed> hey chrisreis53_
[19:36] <DanielRichman> well that's a point but not relevent if SS_LOW isn't even working (?)
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[19:37] <fsphil> back
[19:37] <DanielRichman> also if you don't set SS as an output and pull it low when in master mode it gets *very* upset, but it looks like you're doing that already
[19:42] <MrCraig> wb fsphil
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[19:43] <fsphil> ta
[19:43] <fsphil> MrCraig, just won the same radio as you
[19:43] <MrCraig> cool grats - just don't tell me at what price!
[19:43] <MrCraig> lol
[19:44] <fsphil> won't lol
[19:44] <Laurenceb> the SPIF bit is cleared by first reading the
[19:44] <Laurenceb> SPI Status Register with SPIF set, then accessing the SPI Data Register (SPDR).
[19:44] <jcoxon> ft790r?
[19:44] <MrCraig> lol what'd you win it for?
[19:44] <Laurenceb> that means reading it
[19:44] <fsphil> jcoxon, yea
[19:44] <MrCraig> yes jcoxon
[19:44] <jcoxon> yay
[19:44] <Laurenceb> ?
[19:44] <jcoxon> best radio ever
[19:44] <fsphil> £63, +10 postage
[19:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, thats excellent price
[19:44] <fsphil> has no battery though
[19:44] <jcoxon> oh it takes C cells
[19:44] <fsphil> but I can fix that pretty quickly
[19:44] <MrCraig> I paid £47 more, that's an expensive battery
[19:45] <fsphil> ah even better
[19:45] <MrCraig> but I'm happy lol
[19:45] <jcoxon> MrCraig, its a great radio
[19:45] <jcoxon> old school
[19:45] <fsphil> yea lovely little radios, I think the Cirrus guys got a loan of the cusf one
[19:45] <MrCraig> yeah - I've had my "school night" play with it, it's gone away now waiting to track fsphil's launch
[19:46] <MrCraig> according to the user manual it's cutting edge technology - and that manual was printed recently - from my printer :-P
[19:46] <fsphil> haha
[19:46] <fsphil> I love the big clunky switches
[19:46] <MrCraig> yeah, and freq control on the mic is nice too
[19:46] <fsphil> ah yes, I haven't seen the mic yet
[19:47] <MrCraig> it's weird, I just happened to have a suitable power supply for it laying around the flat (13.8v bench supply)
[19:48] <fsphil> what kind of dc socket does it have?
[19:48] <MrCraig> Heading up to coventry this weekend to ask my brother (the automotive handi-man) to help me fit it, and my computer, into the car.
[19:48] <DagoRed> Does anyone know where I can look up on how to decode the compressed APRS strings get all the bits of precision out of our GPS data?
[19:48] <fsphil> I'm hoping to run it of the car dc
[19:49] <jcoxon> just be careful
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[19:49] <MrCraig> well I bought the car caddy for it too, the power supply for that caddy is some two pin socket which adapts it to the DB jack. Not sure the size of that jack but it's a large one
[19:49] <jcoxon> as the pinout is opposite to standard on the ft790r power jack
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[19:49] <MrCraig> 15v max - but the manual says it's very touchy about polarity
[19:49] <fsphil> eep ... the tip is negative?
[19:49] <jcoxon> yup
[19:49] <MrCraig> it wants 13.8
[19:50] <fsphil> it'll probably run on a lot less as long as you're not TX'ing
[19:51] <MrCraig> yeah - and given that I'm car mounting too - if your alternator isn't putting out 13.8, there's something wrong with your car.
[19:51] <fsphil> I'm always worried of car dc spiking
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[19:52] <fsphil> in saying that I've run my 817 of the car a few times and no problems at all, the voltage never went above 13.9
[19:52] <MrCraig> that's a concern - I wonder how much of a concern. I mean, the caddy is surely intended for installing in a car and it provides just two supply lines (no jack)
[19:53] <MrCraig> I might talk to my employers of 15 years ago while I'm up there, I worked in a taxi cab office, if anyone knows how to mount a radio in a car they should.
[20:02] <slothearn> you drove a taxi?
[20:02] <slothearn> o_O
[20:02] <MrCraig> I operated the radio from the office
[20:02] <MrCraig> large fleet
[20:02] <slothearn> oh, word. I was gonna say, that's kinda neat. still kinda cool though
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[20:03] <MrCraig> yeah - for a school leaving job it served it's purpose. Most of the people I worked with are still there.
[20:04] <MrCraig> my dad drove a cab for years - for the same company.
[20:04] <DagoRed> Cab drivers are crazy
[20:04] <MrCraig> lol very true
[20:05] <DagoRed> I lived on the east coast for years, holy crap. The cab drivers are only second to one other group. Bus drivers.
[20:05] <MrCraig> actually, being the "dispatch operator" was a scarey job - when those drivers weren't earning as much as they would like to (typically being their own boss because they didn't put the hours in) they could be quite agressive
[20:05] <fsphil> sunday prediction looking excellent so far: http://www.hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/#!/uuid=62fa7c8bc99af6fe69e70f1622f3ba2c194a8159
[20:05] <slothearn> ever get shanked by an angry driver, MrCraig?
[20:05] <DagoRed> I'm not surprised MrCraig
[20:05] <MrCraig> lol dad gave up on the taxi's and went to drive busses - I guess that's a promotion on the crazy sakes
[20:06] <slothearn> sort of
[20:06] <DagoRed> MrCraig: Your father sounds awesome and nutty, you are lucky to have him as a father.
[20:06] <slothearn> my mom was the secretary at the local school district's transportation department
[20:06] <MrCraig> Actually - I put a driver in his place as a scrawny little lad - but I then walked into the office and near as damn it passed out from it lol
[20:06] <slothearn> still is tbh, but they're mostly crazy
[20:07] <slothearn> anywhere with people who are CDL = random craziness
[20:07] <DagoRed> fsphil: Looks good! We just finished our flight. 120,000ft
[20:07] <MrCraig> I had another cabbie scream he was going to eat me - I wondered if he was making advances or being angry o.O either way he didn't show at the office and I'm glad he didn't
[20:07] <fsphil> yes I was sort-of watching that from work, brilliant work!
[20:08] <fsphil> I know you wanted to go higher but that's still a heck of a lot higher than I'll be doing :)
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[20:09] <MrCraig> anyways 9:10 already and I didn't eat - going afk to do the hunter gatherer thing. bbs
[20:09] <DagoRed> fsphil: We'll be trying again, but we have to use up these balloons and helium. The balloons are getting old and we have to pay a monthly charge for keeping the canisters filled.
[20:10] <slothearn> why can't you just buy tanks and get them filled? o_o
[20:12] <meefs> yar
[20:14] <DagoRed> slothearn: University runs this way.
[20:16] <DagoRed> fsphil: So what's the purpose of this next flight?
[20:19] <fsphil> it's mainly a photo flight -- last time the camera failed about half way up
[20:19] <DagoRed> Ahh.
[20:19] <fsphil> also testing my image tx'ing thing
[20:19] <DagoRed> Nice.
[20:20] <DagoRed> We are so done with general camera missions. They get boring. However if the visibility is REALLY clear we will try them again.
[20:21] <fsphil> not sure visibility would ever be that clear, near the horizon anyway
[20:22] <fsphil> it's a lot of air
[20:24] <DagoRed> We had one mission where we could see it from the ground all the way to 80,000ft
[20:24] <DagoRed> It was awesome. I wish we had a camera on that flight.
[20:25] <DagoRed> Well... we did just... somebody screwed up horribly.... and now that screw up works at Lockheed Martin somehow.
[20:26] <fsphil> see it without any visual aids?
[20:27] <fsphil> One of the icarus flights was tracked all the way until burst, but it was through a pretty good camera
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[20:44] <eroomde> DagoRed: on a coupe of occassions I've seen some of ours up to about 120,000ft
[20:44] <eroomde> the albedo is excellent
[20:45] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[20:45] <eroomde> hi jcoxon
[20:46] <jcoxon> hows tricks
[20:46] <W0OTM> http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/iHAB-2/Media/iHAB-2_Panorama1.jpg
[20:47] <eroomde> not bad. doing the norfolk coast walk this weekend
[20:47] <eroomde> well, friday + weekend
[20:47] <jcoxon> nice
[20:47] <jcoxon> i'm on call this weekend :-(
[20:47] <eroomde> poo :(
[20:56] <fsphil> are you free to do some tracking on sunday?
[20:56] <jcoxon> fsphil, me?
[20:56] <fsphil> yea
[20:57] <jcoxon> probably not
[20:57] <eroomde> fsphil: where are you launching from?
[20:58] Action: DagoRed is back again
[20:58] <fsphil> same place as last time, can't spell it .. an-cregan
[20:58] <DagoRed> Ugh... operations screw up.
[20:58] <fsphil> I might need someone to operate my home radio
[20:58] <eroomde> what's happened?
[20:59] <DagoRed> eroomde: Little recap on operations on debrief from our manager. He wasn't very happy. Good news though, most of it will be solved with an IRC bot we'll be running in #sscl in the future!
[20:59] <eroomde> what wasn't he happy about?
[21:00] <DagoRed> Err... the fact that while the recovery team was out the lab was left open door and abandoned without notifying him.
[21:00] <eroomde> ah...
[21:00] <DagoRed> Also, some people didn't show up on time, things were slapped together, etc..
[21:00] <fsphil> I believe the technical term for that is .. Oops
[21:01] <DagoRed> Or SNAFu
[21:01] <DagoRed> *SNAFU
[21:07] Nick change: DagoRed -> kd0mto
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[21:25] Nick change: kd0mto -> DagoRed
[21:32] Action: Laurenceb is reading tons of kalman papers off the openpilot forum
[21:33] <DagoRed> Laurenceb: Screw you! I've been addicted to that site sense you showed me. Kalman filters are like crack to me.
[21:34] <DagoRed> Landing of our payload earlier from our high altitude attempt. Retrieval has not been completed yet, here is why 41 41.036N 093 05.143W
[21:34] <Laurenceb> heh we're two of a kind
[21:34] <Laurenceb> i think i understand it intuitively now
[21:34] <DagoRed> Laurenceb: At I have some funding for a UAV project to use something like that.
[21:35] <DagoRed> Oh, the Kalman Filter is easy to understand. Especially if you look up Gary Bishop.
[21:35] <DagoRed> Once you play around with Kalman filters in python and read his papers they make PERFECT sense!
[21:35] <Laurenceb> basically with a typical mems setup first order assumptions hold well if the filter is stable
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[21:35] <Laurenceb> so there is basically nothing better than the EKF
[21:35] <Laurenceb> but when thats not true it gets interesting
[21:36] <Laurenceb> the EKF can diverge under some circumstances
[21:36] <DagoRed> Have you studied the unscented kalman filter yet?
[21:36] <Laurenceb> thats where the unscented kalman may help
[21:36] <DagoRed> Hahaha, figures.
[21:36] <Laurenceb> problem is its about 2.5 times the flops
[21:36] <Laurenceb> so the suggestion is something intermediate
[21:37] <Laurenceb> im just reading the papers on a UKF with fewer sigma points
[21:37] <Laurenceb> the performance beats a EKF for stability
[21:37] <DagoRed> The unscented is awesome because it focuses on the outliers of the filter and linearizes them to make a better model where as the unscented just looks the change and bases gain off of an expected model.
[21:37] <Laurenceb> with the number of sigma points scaled down to the point where the FLOPS is equal
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[21:38] <Laurenceb> yeah - the EKF "follows a scent"
[21:38] <Laurenceb> i think thats where the terminology comes from
[21:38] <Laurenceb> so it looks like one of these modified unscented filter algorythms may work well
[21:38] <DagoRed> The problem with either the EKF or UKF is the noise model though, making that is a pain. The actual filter design is cut and dry, tweaking the gains is an artform, but the building an accurate model is the biggest pitfal of the EKF and UKF.
[21:39] <Laurenceb> also its easier to integrate sampling lag models into UKF
[21:39] <Laurenceb> apparently - havent read up on that bit yet
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[21:39] <Laurenceb> my understanding is you can get a long way ignoring a lot of the model
[21:39] <Laurenceb> e.g. ignor the control input model
[21:39] <DagoRed> I need to do more reading but I have NDE stuff I need to get on since that's where most of my funding is coming from. That... and homework sucks.
[21:40] <Laurenceb> treat a lot of stuff as diagonal covar matrices
[21:40] <Laurenceb> you undergrad atm?
[21:40] <DagoRed> Grad.
[21:40] <Laurenceb> heh me too
[21:40] <DagoRed> EE undergrad to AerE masters
[21:40] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:40] <Laurenceb> whereabouts?
[21:40] Action: DagoRed feels like the smart kid in the dumb class in this department.
[21:40] <DagoRed> Iowa State.
[21:40] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:41] <Laurenceb> mostly UK on here - in case you hadnt realised
[21:41] <Laurenceb> <- UK
[21:41] <DagoRed> The lab I work in is thermal.cnde.iastate.edu but the one I play and starting the new research project for my professor is at www.sscl.iastate.edu
[21:41] <Laurenceb> brb
[21:41] <DagoRed> Yeah I figured.
[21:41] <DagoRed> ok
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[21:52] Nick change: DagoRed -> dinner
[21:52] <eroomde> back to earlier, characterising the noise in the model is almost always the hardest part of any bayesian model selection problem
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[21:52] <eroomde> KFs just being a subset
[21:53] <eroomde> i'm having difficulty with an entirely different bayesian estimation problem and the issue is entirely in modelling the channel noise
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[21:53] <eroomde> it's where PhDs go to spin their wheels for four years
[21:54] <meefs> lol
[21:55] <jcoxon> with the predictor how big is a delta?
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[22:11] <Laurenceb> i think one approach is grabbing a load of real world data from airframe flights
[22:12] <Laurenceb> something that was suggested on openpilot forum
[22:12] <Laurenceb> not sure what you do next... guess some sort of monte carlo to find the optimal model noise
[22:13] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what he's thinking of.
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> Oh yes.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> The 747 that went into a spin after engine failure due to the autopilot falling off the edges of its model.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> And the poor mapping of commercial aircraft outside the limits of the model, but simulators flagging that poorly.
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[22:17] <Randomskk> jcoxon: the red box is the delta size
[22:17] <Randomskk> it's in degrees
[22:17] <jcoxon> oh right
[22:17] <jcoxon> i'm playing with the my float predictor
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[22:20] <jonsowman> jcoxon: we need to get float integrated into the habhub predictor at some point
[22:20] <jonsowman> its on my todo list
[22:21] <jcoxon> yay
[22:23] <jonsowman> jcoxon: did you modify rjw's predictor binary for float?
[22:28] <jcoxon> yes
[22:28] <jcoxon> well i basically didn't let it land for a set number of loops
[22:29] <jonsowman> land meaning descend?
[22:29] <jonsowman> so it hangs around at max. alt for a bit before beginning to fall?
[22:29] <jcoxon> exactly
[22:29] <jonsowman> right
[22:29] <jonsowman> well, that works
[22:30] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:30] <jonsowman> maybe I could grab a copy of your modded binary?
[22:30] <jonsowman> well, the source
[22:30] <jcoxon> i could just grab the altitude.c
[22:30] <jonsowman> yeah if you don't mind :)
[22:30] <jcoxon> its very dirty
[22:39] <Laurenceb> this is odd
[22:40] <Laurenceb> my avr xtl is running and can be programmed
[22:40] <Laurenceb> but its as if no code is running
[22:40] <Laurenceb> doesnt seem to be the bootloade bit
[22:41] <Randomskk> crystal select fuses?
[22:41] <Laurenceb> the xtl is clocked
[22:41] <Laurenceb> i can see the signal
[22:42] <Randomskk> really simple demo code?
[22:42] <Randomskk> just like DDRB=255; PORTB=255; for(;;);
[22:46] <Laurenceb> yeah tried it
[22:48] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:52] <Laurenceb> maybe its fried, but very odd issue
[22:53] <Laurenceb> ill try with a new one tomorrow
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[22:53] <Laurenceb> the xtl is running and it behaves fine when programmed
[22:53] <Laurenceb> but the code is never executed
[22:54] <Laurenceb> its a rather maltreated atmega168 from my parts bin
[22:54] <Laurenceb> maybe why
[22:54] <Laurenceb> cya all
[22:54] <Randomskk> does sound unusual. try it with another to rule that out, I guess
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[22:54] <Randomskk> seeya
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[23:32] <W0OTM> I put together a pano. http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/iHAB-2/Media/iHAB-2_Panorama1.jpg
[23:34] <Randomskk> sweet
[23:34] <W0OTM> thx
[23:36] <juxta> morning all
[23:37] <juxta> nice panorama there W0OTM
[23:38] <W0OTM> thank you
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 6 2010