highaltitude.log.20101001

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[09:47] <Laurenceb_> hi
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> lots of people on here :PD
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> :/
[09:54] <SpeedEvil> (At lack of HA related stuff I'm doing)
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> oh
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.eetimes.com/design/microwave-rf-design/4208611/Software-defined-radio--Don-t-talk-to-me-about-ENOBS--Part-1-of-2-?cid=NL_PlanetAnalog&Ecosystem=analog-design
[10:29] <SpeedEvil> seen that?
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> doesnt seem to have much info
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> no.
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> I thought at first it was more in depth
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> I was having trouble loading it.
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> also if you are sampling that fast you need a crazxy fpga
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> still need to see if the cc1020 technique works properly
[10:50] <Laurenceb_> dont have enough time :(
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> :/
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> Know just how that feels.
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> Though I have the time, I just can't use it.
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> im trying to get my head around how the digital bandpass filter works
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> im thinking it might be some variety of comb filter, but the datasheet has some confusing terminology
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> talking about the decimator clock divisor
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> providing i can extract the baseband i worked out a nice technique
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> use the lock pin to output the internal modem clock
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Ask in the TI forum.
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> I've had good responses in the past.
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> ok
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> then use the lock pin to clock the spi bus
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> and put the micro into spi slave mode
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> Sounds interesting if I recall the bits of the datasheet right
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> set an isr to trigger each time an spi exchange is complete
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> that was you get round the problem of having two clock domains
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> so each sample is grabbed out of the cc1020 without weird clock squew issues
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc1020.pdf
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> also something i missed before - the datasheet seems to be saying the image rejection is handled in the digital filter
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> so it should be possible to ghet baseband out of the STATUS5 register on p84
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> itll be centered on 307.2khz, but the clever bit is if you same at a lower frequency the IF will be downconverted to a few KHz
[11:07] <Laurenceb_> iirc DEC_DIV[4:0]=31 then sampling status5 at 24.0941 ksps would give you an IF at 6.02KHz
[11:07] <Laurenceb_> with 9.6KHz bandwidth... of course this all depends on how the internal digital bandpass filter actually works
[11:27] <Laurenceb_> ok ive asked on the forum
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[11:35] <fsphil> did rjh launch last weekend or just testing? see icarus on the tracker ditching into the north sea
[11:44] <Upu> I asked that too
[11:44] <Upu> as it appear he launched from home I suspect either testing or accident :)
[11:49] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSFjhWw4DNo
[11:51] <fsphil> lol
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[11:57] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[11:57] Action: SpeedEvil is exhausted after doing the washing up.
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/16/vulture_1/
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> they are actually making something
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/21/paris_radio_kit/
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> not bad
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> but rather naughty - 100mw
[12:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/03/paris_release_mechanism/ <-lulwut
[12:11] <Laurenceb_> just use an electronic cutdown ffs
[12:12] <fsphil> they've been building this thing for ages
[12:13] Action: Laurenceb_ predicts spiral dive
[12:13] <Laurenceb_> followed rapidly by one wing tearing off
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> airframe design is hard
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> unless you have lots of control
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[12:44] <SpeedEvil> and clue
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[13:00] <SpeedEvil> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1795.2009.00326.x/abstract
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> relevant paper is relevant.
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Well - sort-of.
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:26] <Laurenceb_> lol
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11452074 <-wtf osama
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> maybe hes just a misunderstood evironutter
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[14:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/17353.pdf <-worth a read
[14:26] <chris_99> hi guys, sorry if this is a stupid question, when a balloon says 1000g, whats that referring too?
[14:28] <Randomskk> its mass
[14:28] <Randomskk> g for grammes
[14:28] <chris_99> so it is just the maximum mass of helium
[14:28] <chris_99> it can take
[14:28] <Randomskk> no
[14:29] <Randomskk> it's the balloon's mass
[14:29] <chris_99> aha that makes more sense
[14:34] <chris_99> do helium tanks also have a meter that shows the volume of gas in them?
[14:34] <Randomskk> not to a useful level of accuracy for filling
[14:34] <Randomskk> typically we go by neck lift
[14:34] <Randomskk> which is to say, how much the balloon pulls up while inflating
[14:35] <Randomskk> so what you do is work out your required neck life (www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc ) and then get that mass (water is easiest since its density is easy, kg/litre)
[14:35] <Randomskk> then hang that mass on the bottom of the balloon and inflate until it reaches neutral buoyancy (e.g. just floats without going up or down)
[14:36] <Randomskk> then you know it has that much neck lift, you attach your payload and it should be enough to support the payload and provide free lift to actually pull it up
[14:36] <chris_99> thanks for that explanation! that is really helpful
[14:37] <chris_99> that website looks really handy too
[14:37] <Randomskk> it's been useful
[14:37] <Randomskk> so like, get some litre bottles of water
[14:37] <Randomskk> if your neck lift was, say, 1700g
[14:37] <Randomskk> you want one full litre bottle and 0.7 of another
[14:38] <Randomskk> then just hang them from the neck - plastic carrier bags are great for this, put the bottles in the bag and loop the bag handles around the neck
[14:38] <Randomskk> bear in mind it is a lot harder in the wind, too -- wait until it is a bit calm first
[14:39] <chris_99> regarding filling the balloon, do you attach a pipe to the helium canister
[14:39] <Randomskk> yea
[14:39] <Randomskk> with a valve on the canister
[14:39] <chris_99> the tanks come with valves i presume
[14:39] <Randomskk> typically. check, though
[14:40] <Randomskk> you want to work it slowly or it freezes
[14:40] <chris_99> wow, heh, wouldn't want that happening
[14:40] <Randomskk> bit annoying
[14:41] <Randomskk> god, how is it almost 4pm
[14:41] <Randomskk> I need to get a shower and dressed. back in a bit
[14:41] <chris_99> cheers for the help
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[15:00] <Laurenceb_> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=497-10508-ND
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> iNEMO is in stock
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[15:02] <SpeedEvil> I saw that.
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Looked largely uninspiring
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah, the gyros are a bit poor and theres no datasheet for the pressure thingy avaliable yet
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> also expensive
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> At 1/10th the price - a no-brainer.
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> you could do a v2 autopilot with the ripoff ublox6 for less
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> their calibration technique is basically what i wrote on the wiki
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> - from the app note i linked
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> personally the part in appendix 6 where they rotate around the x, y and z axes seems annoying - aligning along x and y axis would seem a better plan
[15:11] <chris_99> "Parachutes are neither required nor recommended for use during an MRS sounding. The 250-gram RS-80 series radiosonde instrument, even when in free-fall after balloon burst, has sufficient drag that even a direct strike to a person on the ground will cause no serious injury." - i wouldn't like to get hit on the head with one of those
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> No.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> I have one of those.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> It would not cause serious injury, true.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Unless perhaps you manage to hit a baby.
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Or a cyclist.
[15:12] <chris_99> yeah, they are only polystyrene too
[15:13] <chris_99> have you sent one up?
[15:13] <chris_99> i bought a few at a radio fair recently because they've got pressure sensors in
[15:17] <chris_99> these guys look quite cheap http://www.chorleybottlegas.co.uk/products.cfm?pageurl=Balloon-Gas-Helium comparing to some of the prices on the UKHAS site for BOC
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> no
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[15:43] <Laurenceb_> http://www.goldmine-elec.com/
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> wow
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[15:46] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> Assuming you mean the caps, not the colour organ kit. :)
[15:47] Action: SpeedEvil stabs eestor.
[15:48] <m1x10> it has that geiger thing
[15:48] <m1x10> http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17339
[15:48] <m1x10> 50$
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah the caps
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> lol eestor
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at a minimal car regenerative system.
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> With ~10-20 of those.
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[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Enough to go 30-0 and 0-25 or so
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[15:53] <SpeedEvil> I'd also like one 1/1000th the size
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> The small ones have leakage currents way, way higher than 5.2uA @3F
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[15:56] <Laurenceb_> the car is more of an issue
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's a hefty bitr of engineerring.
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah i mean actual;ly fitting the motor etc onboard
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> i like the electric scooter idea
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[15:58] <Laurenceb_> as in folding scooter with lipo cells and pneumatic tyres
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> you can build something thats right at the limit of motor and battery tech and its affordable
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> just extremely dangerous
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[16:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh - no.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> I mean to a normal car.
[16:00] <W0OTM> howdy
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> Ghettoing it on.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> hello.
[16:00] <W0OTM> whats the good word?
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Like my hoverboard idea. :)
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Though I think that isn't extremely dangerous.
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Extremely dangerous would have a chance of not killing you in an accident.
[16:03] <Laurenceb_> ~100mph on 4''
[16:03] <Laurenceb_> wheels is dangertous
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> but you could get 100mile range or so with only a few tens of Kg of lipos
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> probably the biggest issue with an "insane scooter" would be finding somewhere to drive it
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> other than down the M1
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Delimited autobahn.
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> i saw some work at sheffield uni with lead acid/lifepo cells rather than supercaps
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> LiFePO4 is close to supercaps
[16:06] <W0OTM> what verbiage do you use on your "If found please contact" sign on your payload?
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> in terms of specific power
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> cylindrical lead acid with terminals at either end
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> lead acid is much higher
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> they well also working on flywheels
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Flywheels have the unfortunate crash issue.
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> suprisingly simple - just a fairly standard brushless motor design
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> I proposed ages ago a get-around for this.
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> In the event of a imminent crash, the flywheels pop out, and fly off on a prop.
[16:08] <russss> W0OTM: "Harmless scientific experiment. If found please contact <blah>"
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> theres always antiproton traps
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[16:09] Action: Laurenceb_ want to make an antiproton trap
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like fun.
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> What do you use?
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Cheese?
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> magnets and electric fields
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> then a linac to make the antiprotons
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> wondering how to make antiprotons on a small budget...
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> but the trap part seems practical
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Aren't there decays that lead to it?
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> maybe..
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[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Jello.
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/factory/AM-factory03.html
[16:15] <Laurenceb_> sounds kind opf rubbish
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[16:16] <Laurenceb_> theres got to be an efficient way to make them
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[16:18] <MoALTz> there was a paper that claims a good way of getting antiprotons would be to capture them in orbit (around the earth; but the best source was apparently saturn)
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> hah
[16:19] <MoALTz> antiprotons are generated by cosmic rays interacting with the atmosphere
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.vbs.tv/en-gb/blog/ragbir-bhathal-aussie-alien-hunter <-what the heck
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: anything you want to do with the antiprotons, or just...
[16:21] <Laurenceb_> i was wondering if i could collect a few KJ of them in a table top experiment but then...
[16:21] <Laurenceb_> itd probably end badly
[16:21] <MoALTz> http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/1071Bickford.pdf i think (still loading)l
[16:21] <m1x10> hi Lunar_Lander
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:22] <Lunar_Lander> MoALTz Saturn in orbit round Earth? so that is why they painted that on the tracker!
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> i see no reason why a simple trap couldnt hold that many antiprotons
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[16:23] <Laurenceb_> its just how you make them in the first place
[16:23] <MoALTz> ok this seems to be the paper i remember
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> KJ is AIUI a huge amount.
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> You get problems with space charge
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> exactrly
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> thats what limits the amount you can store
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[18:09] <m1x10> who sits on a linux box right now?
[18:09] <m1x10> i need something very simple
[18:10] <Randomskk> oh?
[18:10] <m1x10> Randomskk
[18:10] <m1x10> linux ?
[18:10] <Randomskk> of course
[18:10] <m1x10> ohoh
[18:10] <m1x10> iconv
[18:10] <m1x10> got it?
[18:10] <m1x10> run..
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[18:14] <Randomskk> yes?
[18:14] <m1x10> Randomskk wait
[18:17] <m1x10> i send you a file which is in utf8. I want to convert it to iso-8859-7. Command is iconv -f utf-8 -t iso-8859-7 < oldfile > newfile
[18:17] <m1x10> ok?
[18:17] <Randomskk> I can do that, but like, probably so can any number of other pieces of software. like a text editor.
[18:18] <m1x10> i got notepad++
[18:18] <m1x10> cant do it
[18:18] <Randomskk> what
[18:18] <m1x10> plz im in a harry
[18:18] <m1x10> hurry*
[18:18] <Randomskk> yea, no problem. go for it
[18:18] <Randomskk> email?
[18:18] <m1x10> dcc?
[18:18] <Randomskk> dcc is a bit awkard for me. email would be better.
[18:18] <m1x10> ok
[18:18] <m1x10> mail
[18:18] <Randomskk> random@randomskk.net
[18:19] <m1x10> done
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> why doesn't dcc work?
[18:20] <m1x10> it works for me
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> it works never for me
[18:20] <Randomskk> it doesn't like it.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> dcc relies on the sender punching a hole in their firewall
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:20] <m1x10> what?
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> for reciever it's easy
[18:20] <Randomskk> adam@wizard ~/Downloads: iconv -f utf-8 -t iso-8859-7 < subs.srt > subs_utf8.srticonv: illegal input sequence at position 0
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[18:20] <m1x10> wtffffffffffffff
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I can get
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> but not transmit
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> so to speak
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw, quote of the month
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> "<m1x10>plz im in a harry"
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:21] <m1x10> hahahha
[18:21] <m1x10> man
[18:21] <m1x10> im dissapointed
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:22] <m1x10> Randomskk can u try some dd with the file?
[18:22] <m1x10> maybe a new writing will fix it
[18:23] <m1x10> pfff
[18:23] <Randomskk> try https://randomskk.net/u/subs_utf8.srt
[18:23] <Randomskk> used vim, it may have done it
[18:24] <m1x10> Randomskk the new file supposed to be in iso-8859-7
[18:24] <m1x10> thats in utf-8
[18:25] <Randomskk> oh, right. it already was utf-8?
[18:25] <Randomskk> generally things should always go from something odd to utf-8
[18:25] <m1x10> utf8->8859-7
[18:25] <Randomskk> one sec.
[18:26] <m1x10> yeah but a dvd player here does not support utf-8. instead it does iso-8859-7 which is the official greek encoding
[18:26] <Randomskk> think this did it
[18:27] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/subs_iso-8859-7.srt
[18:27] <m1x10> yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[18:27] <m1x10> brb
[18:39] <m1x10> Randomskk there?
[18:39] <Randomskk> yes
[18:39] <m1x10> fatality
[18:39] <Randomskk> it didn't work?
[18:39] <m1x10> can u try CP1253 encoding?
[18:40] <m1x10> dvd player does not support the official iso-8859-7
[18:40] <m1x10> i checked the manuals it supports the old greek 1253codepage
[18:40] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/subs_cp1253.srt
[18:40] <m1x10> lol
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[18:45] <m1x10> fatality
[18:45] <Randomskk> still no luck?
[18:45] <Hiena> ' evening!
[18:45] <Randomskk> hi Hiena
[18:45] <Randomskk> m1x10: perhaps you should get a better DVD player
[18:45] <m1x10> Randomskk it plays greek
[18:46] <m1x10> but some strange symbols come out
[18:46] <m1x10> ive sent you
[18:46] <Randomskk> character encoding is very complicated
[18:46] <m1x10> a new file
[18:46] <Randomskk> there is a good reason everyone <3 utf
[18:46] <m1x10> no its ok that
[18:46] <m1x10> i think it was a the same subs but from another riping
[18:47] <m1x10> can u convert again?
[18:47] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/newsubs_cp1253.srt
[18:50] <m1x10> Randomskk thank you
[18:51] <Randomskk> no problem
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[18:51] <m1x10> it still prints some extra numbers but at least subs are ok.
[18:51] <m1x10> first time i face such a thing
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[19:34] <MrCraig> anyone who can op and change title message - that comma after the url breaks the link
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.gordonbennett2010.com/statement10
[19:48] <W0OTM> howdy
[19:48] <MrCraig> howdy
[19:48] <W0OTM> whats the good word?
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[19:49] <MrCraig> um
[19:49] <MrCraig> o.O
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> hi W0OTM nice that you are here
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I watched the iHAB2 video
[19:49] <W0OTM> hey, thanks Lunar_Lander
[19:49] Nick change: jeff_sleep -> jeffmhopkins
[19:49] <W0OTM> the Payload tour?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:50] <W0OTM> Lunar_Lander: was it ok?
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yes, save for the last part with the film
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> you said
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> "400 mm film"
[19:50] <W0OTM> LOL
[19:50] <W0OTM> I caught that too
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I think the 400 is actually the ASA
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:50] <W0OTM> but I figured everyone knew what I meant
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I think everyone knes 35 mm film
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> *knows
[19:51] <W0OTM> I have been so engrossed in metric numbers that 400mm was just "another number"
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but the tray idea looks good
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> the radio panels, were they made of copper?
[19:51] <W0OTM> the 20m rig?
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea+
[19:52] <W0OTM> yeah, Manhattan style
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:52] <W0OTM> we will get a PCB designed up over the winter
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> I was just astonished that it works
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> because the copper panel is a conductor itself
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought it could short out or so
[19:54] <W0OTM> Manhattan style is a very unique style of building
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:55] <m1x10> W0OTM how much is the payloads weight?
[19:55] <W0OTM> 1232g
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> what are the green panels made out of? the ones you have everywhere
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> I just read they're out of epoxy
[19:56] <W0OTM> green panels?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:56] <W0OTM> Lunar_Lander: here is a close up of another Manhattan style board http://www.k8iqy.com/miscellaneous/18dblt1253ddsamplifier/P2030113_640.gif
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> the ones that are in every TV, PC and so on
[19:57] <MrCraig> just clicked that link - that's a piece of art
[19:57] <W0OTM> fyberglass
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that rig on the photo is cool
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Albuquerque-NM/Anderson-Abruzzo-International-Balloon-Museum-Foundation/120640226345
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> check the photo on the left
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[20:08] <W0OTM> hot air?
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> hydrogen
[20:12] <m1x10> goodnight all
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they are gone for about two days now
[20:21] <fsphil> well this is weird, scp has died and I can't kill it
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> kill -FIRE
[20:25] <fsphil> well the process dies, but bash isn't returning to a prompt
[20:26] <meefs> your session is still alive
[20:27] <meefs> the a ps -auwfx|grep username
[20:27] <meefs> and kill its parent
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[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> W0OTM ?
[20:33] <fsphil> terminated
[20:33] <fsphil> scp, not W0OTM :-p
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:38] <fsphil> still jams when I run it though, and i'm only copying a 54k file
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to ask W0OTM if he will fly a blue ribbon on the balloon
[20:43] <fsphil> oooh it's something to do with ipv6, works fine over ipv4
[20:44] <fsphil> anyway, here's what I'm uploading; progress on the image transfer: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/ssdv-output-1.jpeg
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> colourful!
[20:46] <meefs> heh
[20:48] <fsphil> there's hints of the original image in there :)
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[21:34] <fsphil> closer.... http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/ssdv-output-2.jpeg
[21:40] <fsphil> victory! (ish) ... http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/ssdv-output-3.jpeg
[21:41] <MrCraig> sweet
[21:41] <meefs> aye
[21:45] <fsphil> now the fun bit, handling missing packets
[21:46] <MrCraig> what's the complication with that?
[21:47] <fsphil> I'll let you know when I hit it :)
[21:47] <fsphil> nah, it shouldn't be hard - all the info is there now to pad out the missing bits
[21:48] <MrCraig> :-) please do, I'm curious because I've not yet embarked on the wonderful world.
[21:48] <MrCraig> you're encoding checksums?
[21:48] <fsphil> this is for transmitting images live in flight
[21:49] <fsphil> last time I did it, the jpeg decoder would crap out when it found a missing bit of data
[21:49] <fsphil> so I got a lot of incomplete images
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[21:49] <MrCraig> are you pushing data transfer rates or sitting on some to spare?
[21:50] <fsphil> 300 baud - not brilliant :) but the normal seems to be 50 baud
[21:50] <fsphil> takes about 6 minutes to tx an image
[21:51] <MrCraig> slow but still very cool - and it does mitigate some of the risk if you don't get the payload back
[21:51] <fsphil> yep, its nice to at least have some low resolution images to prove that it got there :)
[21:52] <MrCraig> :-) What was coming to mind was a thing I once saw about how dvd's are encoded, such that they can be damaged and the data still recovered. I think it involved sending each bit three times though - and at those transfer rates it'd be very costly.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> FEC
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> GIRLS
[21:53] <fsphil> DRINK :p
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER
[21:53] <fsphil> amen to that
[21:53] <fsphil> ahem, anyway
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_error_correction
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> more seriously
[21:54] <fsphil> yea the CD error correction is reed-solomon
[21:54] <fsphil> not sure about DVD
[21:54] <fsphil> I'm basically using the same system, for every 256 bytes 32 are for error correction
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> reed solomon?
[21:54] <MrCraig> ah
[21:54] <fsphil> yep
[21:55] <fsphil> I believe it's the same as DVB uses
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> considered maximal likelyhood?
[21:55] <fsphil> I can't say that I have
[21:57] <fsphil> that *woosh* was the sound of the wiki page on maximal likelyhood going over my head
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[21:58] <fsphil> I meant to record the signal from the last flight, so I could test how well the error correction worked afterwards
[21:58] <fsphil> but I only remembered after the balloon burst
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viterbi_decoder
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> My plans for a launch involve a checklist.
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> And think about wht ato do beforehand.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> It's way to easy to forget stuff.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> you're driving out to retrieve it, when you realise you forgot to add the helium.
[22:00] <fsphil> checklist yea, needa do that
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[23:23] <fsphil> first block missing: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/ssdv-output-4.jpeg
[23:23] <fsphil> woo :)
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[23:24] <SpeedEvil1> :)
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[23:26] <fsphil> nice to see it working at last
[23:27] <fsphil> every other packet missing: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/ssdv-output-5.jpeg
[23:27] <fsphil> not sure if I should make the missing parts grey, or keep the DC of the last packet
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[23:32] <SpeedEvil1> Intrerpolation of adjacent coefficients?
[23:32] <SpeedEvil1> naah - too complex
[23:35] <fsphil> not too bad, though it would mean having to decode / encode the blocks completely
[23:35] <fsphil> unless it could be done from the coefficients directly
[23:37] <fsphil> that might actually work .. but a project for another time
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[23:41] <MrCraig> wasn't paying attention - nice work fsphil :)
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[23:49] <fsphil> thanks MrCraig
[23:49] <fsphil> just hope it works as well in practice
[23:50] <MrCraig> I hope so too - when do you plan on launching?
[23:50] <fsphil> either next weekend, or the one after that
[23:50] <MrCraig> wow - that's soon
[23:51] <fsphil> yea, hence the late night hacking session :)
[23:54] <MrCraig> :-) cool
[23:55] <MrCraig> I'd ask if I can come along, but my sorry car is busted anyway and I don't think it'll be repaired inside of three weeks at best.
[23:57] <fsphil> it's a fair bet you're on the wrong side of the irish sea too :)
[23:57] <MrCraig> meh, what's a sea but a passage way for a big boat.
[23:57] <fsphil> absolutely!
[23:57] <fsphil> or balloon
[23:58] <fsphil> :)
[23:58] <MrCraig> :-)
[00:00] --- Sat Oct 2 2010