highaltitude.log.20100930

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[01:54] <W0OTM> whos around?
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[01:54] <W0OTM> damn predictor is broke again .....
[01:54] <W0OTM> grrrrr
[01:54] <W0OTM> :(
[02:00] <DagoRed> User Falcon
[02:01] <DagoRed> Err... I can't find a link of it.
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[02:09] <W0OTM> falcon?
[02:09] <W0OTM> that java app
[02:14] <DagoRed> yup
[02:14] <DagoRed> we have flight prediction software some place....
[02:14] <DagoRed> We've never been more than 2 miles off .
[02:15] <DagoRed> It's rare we get even near that.
[02:15] <W0OTM> I have Falcon
[02:15] <DagoRed> Nice.
[02:15] <W0OTM> but can't figure out how to run a prediction
[02:15] <W0OTM> maybe i am a moron
[02:15] <DagoRed> It's a pain.
[02:16] <DagoRed> the problem isn't running the software but getting the files off of the website we get our wind data.
[02:16] <DagoRed> That and I think you might need matlab to run the software.
[02:16] <W0OTM> grrr, why does the habhub predictor keep breaking
[02:22] <DagoRed> Because it wasn't mad in our lab.
[02:31] <W0OTM> *&^*&^@#$@#$)*(&%^)($*%&!#$
[02:33] <DagoRed> And you posted your next launch too.
[02:33] <DagoRed> Awesome.
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[02:36] <DagoRed> W0OTM: If you need help with prediction software, talk to madEngineer
[02:37] Nick change: madEngineer -> nv1k
[02:37] <nv1k> me?
[02:37] <DagoRed> yes
[02:38] <W0OTM> madEngineer = nv1k ?
[02:38] <nv1k> yes
[02:38] <W0OTM> I need to talk to you about prediction software
[02:38] <W0OTM> DagoRed sent me
[02:38] <nv1k> alright
[02:38] <nv1k> what about it
[02:38] <W0OTM> I need something that works
[02:38] <W0OTM> :)
[02:38] <nv1k> what have you tried that didn't work?
[02:39] <W0OTM> habhub seems to break all the time
[02:39] Action: nv1k has no experience with habhub
[02:39] Action: nv1k googles
[02:39] <W0OTM> the one provided by nearspceventures sucks
[02:39] <W0OTM> and I can't get falcon to work
[02:39] <nv1k> what issues are you having with falcon?
[02:40] <nv1k> oh habhub is the cusf one
[02:40] <W0OTM> it doesn't work on mac
[02:41] <nv1k> really...
[02:41] <nv1k> never encountered that issue before, it is java code
[02:41] <DagoRed> nv1k: Link me, I'll confirm it.
[02:41] <nv1k> code.google.com/p/falcon-hab
[02:41] <DagoRed> W0OTM: Which version?
[02:42] <nv1k> i'm assuming the download
[02:42] <nv1k> and not built from source?
[02:42] <nv1k> it is possible the latest version of the mozilla plugin we use does not like mac
[02:42] <W0OTM> yeah, from dl
[02:42] <W0OTM> verson 1
[02:42] <nv1k> in fact it wouldn't surprise me
[02:42] <nv1k> any error messages?
[02:44] <W0OTM> just a blank screen in app
[02:44] <nv1k> ok
[02:44] <nv1k> it is probably the mozilla plugin crashing then
[02:44] <W0OTM> hmmm
[02:45] <nv1k> which isn't terribly surprising, that plugin blows
[02:45] <nv1k> i was not involved with the original code
[02:45] <W0OTM> ahh, gotcha
[02:45] <DagoRed> nv1k: Won't run on mac
[02:45] <nv1k> but i am doing a complete rewrite that does not use google maps
[02:46] <nv1k> it uses open street map instead
[02:46] <W0OTM> so back to my original question, whats a good prediction site/app
[02:46] <nv1k> the only prediction software i was aware of is ours, the CUsf and the near space ventures one
[02:46] <nv1k> unless...
[02:46] <W0OTM> why does CUSF keep breaking
[02:46] <nv1k> do you have matlab?
[02:47] <nv1k> no idea why cusf fails
[02:47] <DagoRed> nv1k: Would it work in Octave?
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[02:47] <nv1k> DagoRed: perhaps, i haven't tried and i don't have it installed
[02:47] <DagoRed> Noted
[02:48] <nv1k> maybe i will install it tomorrow and see if i can make it work
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[02:48] <nv1k> W0OTM: I can run a prediction for you if you want
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[02:48] <nv1k> and i will make sure to send you the beta version of Falcon2
[02:50] <W0OTM> ill look forward to Falcon2
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[02:50] <W0OTM> I got CUSF to run on my ipad
[02:50] <W0OTM> LOL
[02:50] <W0OTM> thanks fer ur help
[02:51] <nv1k> falcon2 should....
[02:51] <nv1k> blow you away lol
[02:51] <nv1k> if you have any feature request feel free to send to ethanharstad at gmail dot com
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[03:09] <W0OTM> nv1k: ok
[03:10] <W0OTM> nv1k: when will beta be ready?>
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[03:12] <nv1k> all depends on how much homework i get :(
[03:12] <nv1k> but after i finish this last project it is pretty much the only thing on my plate
[03:13] <nv1k> the standard latex functions should be ready end of the month (i hope)
[03:13] <W0OTM> ok
[03:21] <nv1k> most of what is left for the standard latex balloons is making old code work with the new data model and then it is just rendering code
[03:27] <W0OTM> Target Launch: 2010-10-02 09:00:00 CDT
[03:28] <W0OTM> 2 days, 10 hours, 32 minutes, 22 secon
[03:28] <nv1k> nice
[03:28] <nv1k> we are hoping to get a altitude record attempt launched mon/tue
[03:28] <W0OTM> nv1k: have you seen my iHAB-2 site?
[03:28] <nv1k> yes
[03:28] <W0OTM> k
[03:28] <nv1k> it is quite nice
[03:28] <W0OTM> i found cheap He
[03:29] <W0OTM> 300 cu/ft for $59
[03:29] <W0OTM> im really excited
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[03:29] <nv1k> nice
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[08:29] <m1x10> morning mates :)
[08:29] <Upu> Morning m1x10
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[10:50] <Darkside> http://www.saftbatteries.com/Produit_LSH_cell_range_303_8/Default.aspx#DL2
[10:51] <Darkside> need to get me some of these
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> yeah - those are interesting
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> not cheap
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> and very low drain
[10:51] <Darkside> $30 each on ebay
[10:51] <Darkside> for the LSH-20s
[10:51] <Darkside> yes at low drain
[10:51] <Darkside> you cant draw 1C
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> oh - not those ones
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking of others.
[10:52] <Darkside> heh
[10:52] <Darkside> thedse ones you can draw 0.13C safe;y
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking of ones that werre evenhigher energy densityand lower current
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[11:23] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: ever hand solder LGA ?
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> nope
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> actyually - yes
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> but not sanely
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> dead-bug - enamelled copper wire
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> i was just experimenting with some autopiulot boards
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> i can get them tinned fairly well
[11:37] <Laurenceb_> was thinking tin the pcb then place the lga ontop with a screwdriver holding it in place and use hot air gun to reflow
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> I've seen that done
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> for QFN at least
[11:38] <Randomskk> I've hand soldered LGA with an iron by just poking the sides
[11:38] <Randomskk> it worked but took a lot of frustration and wasn't exactly fantastic
[11:39] <Randomskk> tinning the pcb then hot airing it sounds like it should work. be sure to put flux on the pcb (and lga)
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> ive seen the same technique but hot aired from the bottom
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> that way you cant blow the lga away
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> so no screwdriver needed
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> but id worry about overheating the board
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> I have an IR thingy
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> which should work well
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> xmas present
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> neat
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> my plan is to populate one or 2 version 1 boards for firmware dev/testing
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> i wont bother with a solder stencil until verison 2
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> sounds plausible
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> you're primarily looking at 'cosmetic' changes.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Different sensors and such
[11:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah - ublox5 to 6 and some slightl;y nicer footprints
[11:45] <Laurenceb_> the bom will increase by miles
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> what does 5->6 give you?
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> 40% lower current
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> flash for storing the settings
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> Is that really an issue?
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> external ant with a ULF
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Say 400mAh over a 10h flight isn't really huge.
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> not particularly
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Or are you looking at extremely long duration
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> well 400ma is absolute worst case
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> most of the time itll be <200
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> I mean for the GPS
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> oh ublox5 is about 50 if its setup correctly
[11:48] <Laurenceb_> i can get the 6 down to about 30 or so
[11:48] <Laurenceb_> im not sure if they improved the performance at all
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[11:49] <Laurenceb_> oh apart from 5hz update as opposed to 4
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> http://www.u-blox.com/en/u-blox-6-the-next-generation-gps-platform
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> "Signal sensitivity improved by 3 dB"
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> but not sure if thats just for acquisition
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> cont see them improving the lna by 3dB
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?i=nGqSqgY2iGAWm3qSxmLk&s=392&p=hierarchyoutline&hi=2.00&hl=1&hs=1,1,2
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> ooh they've lowered the prices
[11:54] <Laurenceb_> NEO-6Q looks tempting
[11:55] <Upu> The Inventek ones are nice, rated for balloon use and only $22 each
[11:59] <Laurenceb_> yeah but SiRf
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> actually im tempted to go with NEO-6Q with the exisitng sarantel ant cutout on the pcb and a UFL connector
[12:00] <Upu> what's up with SiRF ?
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> looks like theres room
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> it sucks
[12:00] <Upu> why ? :)
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> the dynamic performance is really poor
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> you need ublox for UAVs
[12:01] <Upu> not sure what you mean, it's been really accurate in all my testing but admittedly I've not launched yet
[12:01] <Laurenceb_> its good if you arent moving is what im saying
[12:01] <Upu> haha ok yeah update isn't that fast
[12:01] <Upu> but it is cheap
[12:01] <Upu> sure they do higher update one
[12:02] <Randomskk> update rate isn't entirely the main issue
[12:02] <Upu> am I launching with the wrong GPS chip ?
[12:03] <Randomskk> it shold work fine
[12:03] <Randomskk> for a balloon especially it's not a big deal
[12:03] <Upu> alititude isn't an issue
[12:03] <Upu> ok I'll see how I get on
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> its fine for balloons
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> and yeah update rate isnt the biggest issue
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> its latency
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> and especially variable latency
[12:04] <Upu> in the location data ?
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> and inaccurate reproduction of motion
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> yea, and the velociuty data
[12:05] <Upu> ok but for balloon work it should be fine I guess, just not for UAV work ?
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:05] <Upu> pay for what you get I guess
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm i hadnt thought of having UFL and a sarantel ant before...
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> not sure if the parasitic capacitance etc will screw it all up
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> https://applicationcentre.sarantel.com/download.php?resid=sl1300_mechanical_integration_guidelines <-sweet
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> aha think ive worked something out
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> you could make a dodgey sarantel ant footprint thatd also work for UFL
[12:23] <Laurenceb_> so NEO-6Q where the FSA03 board sits atm, then the same cutout at the top of the pcb to accomodate a sarantel ant mounted direct to the main pcb, and the pads resized slightly so they'd accomodate a UFL
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> means spending twice as much on the pcb tho :-/
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> *s/pcb/gps
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[12:33] <Laurenceb_> http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/for-gs407-ublox5-gps-4hz-diy?commentId=705844%3AComment%3A153063&xg_source=activity
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> interesing
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> "The maximum sustained update rate for the LEA-5H modules is 2 Hz. You can configure the receiver at 4 Hz, but some cycles will be lost regardless of how many messages are enabled. You will probably achieve an average rate of around 2.5 to 3 Hz depending on conditions."
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> that explains the issues i had with the 5H
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> supposedly the mediatek is 5hz and cheaper
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[13:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:15] <m1x10> hi Lunar_Lander
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:30] <greywolfdjc> Hello can anyone help me with a few questions about helium tank fittings. Mainly what fittings are needed , is it a CGA-580 nozzle in the UK?
[14:33] Action: nv1k no experience with UK parts
[14:34] <nv1k> sorry
[14:36] <DanielRichman> ALIEN#2 pcbs have arrived :)
[14:37] <Randomskk> nice
[14:37] <DanielRichman> it's all.... shiny and green
[14:37] <Randomskk> have the xmegas? >_>
[14:37] <DanielRichman> yeah :D
[14:38] <Randomskk> sweet
[14:40] <DanielRichman> pictures soon
[14:44] <Darkside> DanielRichman: :D
[14:44] <Darkside> i'm about to start on my xmega board :P
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> congrats DanielRichman
[14:44] <Darkside> since my prototype is working well
[14:44] <DanielRichman> Darkside: niice
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> I'd love to know as much electronics as you all know
[14:45] <Darkside> DanielRichman: difference is, mine will broadcast on HF :P
[14:45] <Darkside> not UHF
[14:45] <DanielRichman> pssh
[14:45] <DanielRichman> though, that is quite cool
[14:45] <Darkside> i'll be flying the prototype on the next horus launch
[14:45] <Darkside> one reallly big vertical dipole :P
[14:47] <Lunar_Lander> cool :D
[14:49] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time...
[14:50] <Lunar_Lander> night Darkside
[14:55] <DanielRichman> :o they sent more than ten :)
[14:58] <Lunar_Lander> more than ten of what Daniel?
[14:58] <DanielRichman> 12 PCBs
[14:59] <Randomskk> they tend to do that
[14:59] <Randomskk> seeed or?
[15:00] <Randomskk> most small run places will send you the extras they make if a process goes bad or a board doesn't fully etch etc
[15:00] <DanielRichman> yeah seeed
[15:00] <Randomskk> e.g. I've got two panels from gold phoenix instead of one because they generally make two and this time both were okay
[15:00] <Randomskk> I've had 20 pcbs from seeed
[15:00] <DanielRichman> heh wow
[15:01] <Randomskk> my current working theory is they send more only if you actually needed half a panel or less, or have already designed the new version due to some flaw in this one
[15:01] <DanielRichman> ^^
[15:01] <Randomskk> the seeed order came after I'd already placed the next revision and the gp one required almost no pcbs, but several different designs (and was before seeed were doing pcbs)
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[15:02] <m1x10> DanielRichman from seeed?
[15:02] <m1x10> oh ok
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> USA2 balloon still not found: http://www.gordonbennett2010.com/node/4437
[15:11] <russss> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/09/30/congress-passes-nasa-authorization-bill-but-id-rather-watch-sausages-being-made
[15:11] <russss> NASA funding passed
[15:11] <russss> Constellation is finally dead
[15:13] <DanielRichman> http://picasaweb.google.com/danieljonathanrichman/201009#
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> yay
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> was insane
[15:15] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: pro tip
[15:15] <Randomskk> the ones that are masking taped together have been electrically tested
[15:16] <Randomskk> they also have some pen markings on one edge of the pcb
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[15:16] <DanielRichman> yep, I see it
[15:16] <Randomskk> the others have not been tested
[15:16] <Randomskk> are likely to be okay, but.. well, use the tested ones first.
[15:17] <DanielRichman> will do
[15:18] <DanielRichman> so shiiiny. Need to order PCBs more often
[15:18] <DanielRichman> though perhaps I should get good at smd soldering first
[15:19] <Randomskk> smd soldering's fiiine
[15:28] <DanielRichman> :)
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[15:28] <DanielRichman> I think I'll start on tuesday
[15:28] <DanielRichman> or perhaps at the weekend, depends
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> Daniel what exactly does it do?
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> is it a microcontroller for plugging on sensors or so?
[15:30] <DanielRichman> mcu radio gps sd card lots of broken out digital interfaces
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> so it can radio and record on SD?
[15:30] <DanielRichman> that is my intention
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> that is what I want to do as well
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[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> but SpeedEvil did note my problem
[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> comms with my electrician died down
[15:33] <DanielRichman> that's unlucky
[15:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:34] <Lunar_Lander> I think about finding someone else
[15:35] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know if the old guy would think it as betrayal or so
[15:39] <m1x10> my new arduino-less schematic is messy agly and big :(
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[15:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.34844
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> gsm tracker cheap
[15:46] <m1x10> the gprs networks work at high alts/
[15:46] <m1x10> ?
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> no
[15:48] <Randomskk> why does the logo show what is presumably earth being orbitted by a highly eccentric miniture ringed planet? >_>
[15:49] <m1x10> looks like saturn
[15:49] <m1x10> saturn<<<<earth = lol
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[15:50] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it is because everyone knows Saturn
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> I think that's venus
[15:51] <Lunar_Lander> and almost no one knows what a GPS satellite looks like
[15:51] <Randomskk> everyone knows what a 'satellite' looks like though
[15:51] <Randomskk> ===-[]-===
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> That's no moon!
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[16:23] Action: grummund saw a GPS satellite on the Stephen Hawking documentary the other night...
[16:24] <grummund> it had an atomic clock with a nixie-tube display!
[16:25] <russss> surely they didn't fly nixie tube displays?
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[16:26] <grummund> they did in the documentary :P
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[16:34] <sbasuita> ah that documentary was disappointing
[16:34] <sbasuita> way too many fancy graphics and not enough actual science
[16:35] <earthshine> hi all
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[16:42] <fsphil> I've got a notam :D
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> yay well done
[16:43] <Randomskk> :D
[16:50] <jonsowman> fsphil: nice
[16:50] <jonsowman> :D
[16:53] <Upu> sweet
[16:53] <Upu> when are you going then ? :)
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[17:25] <SAIDias> iHAB-2 Payload Tour - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDO7ufgYyDY
[17:25] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[17:33] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:34] <W0OTM> howdy
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[17:41] <m1x10> W0OTM cool
[17:41] <m1x10> how much weight?
[17:42] <m1x10> oh, we have exactly same canon :P
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[17:45] <fsphil> sorry, got called away
[17:46] <fsphil> Upu, between the 9 and 17th October
[17:46] <fsphil> weather permitting
[17:46] <fsphil> I've still to contact the IAA
[17:46] <fsphil> though the wind is carrying it north east at the moment towards scotland, so no risk of a border crossing
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> aren't you allowed to get there?
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[17:50] <fsphil> I can go there but the balloon can't, without permission anyway
[17:50] <fsphil> going south is much safer, no risk of a water landing
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> how comes?
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> I thought it is a "United Kingdom"
[17:52] <fsphil> irish republic is another country
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry
[17:52] <fsphil> or do you mean scotland? yea I can go there ok
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> yes I wanted to know
[17:53] <fsphil> though the notam says no more than 100km from launch site -- scotland would be pushing that a bit
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[17:53] <fsphil> not that I'm sure they'd be bothered
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> that means you need to give it a high ascent rate right?
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> so that it pops in time
[17:53] <fsphil> yep, that's what the cirrus guys did last time
[17:54] <fsphil> loose a bit of altitude, but it keeps it from taking a dip
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:54] <fsphil> but if I can clear it with the IAA, and the wind is blowing south, then I'll try for a slower ascent
[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[17:57] Action: fsphil looks at the calendar .. eek, not long to go
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[18:20] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/fiNc3.png <- usb dongle finished XD
[18:20] <Laurenceb> probably fab it along with v2 autopilot
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[18:30] <DanielRichman> Laurenceb: what does it do?
[18:30] Nick change: Twin2k -> StrayVoltage
[18:30] <Laurenceb> usb dongley thing to talk to payloads/UAVs
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[18:31] <Laurenceb> also serial,5v,3.3v i2c and spi breakout
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[18:31] <Laurenceb> and baro pressure sensor
[18:31] <Laurenceb> use it for DGPS/differential barometric altitude
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[18:37] <DanielRichman> I see; by talk to do you mean radio?
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[18:39] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:39] <Laurenceb> using si4432
[18:39] <Laurenceb> theres a dual ant switch on there as well
[18:39] <DanielRichman> nice
[18:40] <DanielRichman> what frequency?
[18:40] <Laurenceb> 434
[18:40] <Laurenceb> google the datasheet
[18:41] <DanielRichman> ahh cool
[18:41] <DanielRichman> very useful. I guess it it's OK on a laptop, but how does that handle the noise from the USB on a PC?
[18:42] <Laurenceb> the amount of in band noise should be fairly small
[18:42] <Laurenceb> if the designers on the laptop/pc did their work right
[18:43] <Laurenceb> think of it this way - we dont see any interference on 434 when we're running laptops ringht next to the ant during flights
[18:46] <DanielRichman> fair enough; though we don't have a USB cable conducting all the noise into the rf circuit
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[18:50] <Laurenceb> we have audio instead
[18:50] <Laurenceb> actually my scanner does have usb
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[18:51] <Laurenceb> its not really designed for absolute max performance
[18:52] <Laurenceb> but itd be interesting to see how good it is - the lna on the si4432 is excellent
[18:53] Action: MrCraig awaits the arrival of a cnc milling machine for carving out pcbs with the same excitement as waiting for christmas as a kid.
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[19:14] <fsphil> removing the copper to make the tracks?
[19:14] <fsphil> I seen a video of that once - nice idea
[19:14] <fsphil> a bit slow but no messy chemicals
[19:18] <MrCraig> yeah - cutting copper around tracks. I've done with chemicals a couple times and it's just a chore
[19:18] Action: DanielRichman doesn't like etching
[19:18] <MrCraig> I have software already that can draw the tracks (I think, won't know for sure until I have the device and make it work) - if it takes time so be it, it's easier.
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> how much is the CNC MrCraig ?
[19:24] <MrCraig> £380 in british groats
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> not that much
[19:25] <MrCraig> it's a small bench one
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> lol you remind me on that question at yahoo answers
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> "can I make my own cnc, I am experienced in electronics and I want to do my own for my projects"
[19:25] <MrCraig> the supplier has many of them, but it's coming from china (ebay seller) so I'm slightly nervous - I can vouch for them only when it's arrived and works
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> but beware xD
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> these key chain cams have 1500 ppm lead in their shell
[19:26] <chris_99> MrCraig, whats the link?, sounds cool
[19:26] <MrCraig> yah I knows - I'm mostly worried about import duty - I got stung on that with my 7 inch touch screen.
[19:27] <MrCraig> fetching link...
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:27] <chris_99> thanks :)
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> my balloon's parachute got stuck in customs
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> that suc*****
[19:28] <MrCraig> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-PCBs-engraving-Free-Post_W0QQitemZ320596920807QQcategoryZ55826QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m444QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%252BLA%26otn%3D20%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5313731619153337301
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> nice machine
[19:29] <chris_99> wow, that looks really neat
[19:29] <MrCraig> Gotta say though, it was relisted fast - so I asked why and was told there are several - but the ad lists new / used parts in the same order on the relisting.... I checked out the seller feedback and saw that someone had recieved one of these so I'm giving benefit of the doubt. The seller did promise me a post/courier tracking number today but it didn't come yet.
[19:30] <MrCraig> (probably nothing to worry about, but ebay makes me nervous - especially international)
[19:31] <chris_99> so with this you could drill all the tracks, without even needing to etch the board?
[19:31] <MrCraig> I also volunteered to transplant a scrap computer's psu for someone who blew theirs out, in exchange for the remains of the doner. I'm sure I have a psu or two back up north so on my next trip to visit my folks I can grab one - and then have a pc suitable to drive this (it requires a parallel port from what I see)
[19:32] <MrCraig> yes - no etching, and the component lead holes drilled too
[19:32] <MrCraig> check out the images on the link, there's a cut pcb on there
[19:33] <chris_99> yeah, just saw that one, and the wooden bird is neat too
[19:34] <MrCraig> :-) I have several ideas for the tool, not just pcb's of course - but that's the primary reason for buying.
[19:34] <MrCraig> I will also make moulds for plastic vaccume forming etc
[19:34] <chris_99> yeah i was just thinking about using it for boxes
[19:36] <MrCraig> yeah - I'm not sure what kind of clearance the miller has (I think it's 4cm) so boxes might be tricky - I think the bottom shelf can be removed which would make it more probable.
[19:36] <chris_99> aha makes sense, it looks like the table moves forwards and backwards with this?
[19:36] <MrCraig> yes
[19:38] <MrCraig> the ad says a material depth of 20mm and a "work size" of 40mm? so I think boxes would be a task - but I actually thought about using it to cut mounting brackets to attach things inside a box - and I think maplins do boxes that come as sides and bolt together too.
[19:38] <chris_99> i'd love to get one of those when i have some cash, at the moment i'm making a simple etching set up with a fish tank
[19:40] <chris_99> you might want to check out CPC too, i always find maplin don't have what i want in stock
[19:40] <MrCraig> well - assuming it arrives, I can get a pc suitable for driving it working, and figure out the required file formats for the diagrams -> machine instructions..... I'm happy to cut boards for anyone in this channel, cost of parts and postage only. Assuming that proves cost effective of course, copper stip board is just as good for most things - a little more thinking required but no chemicals.
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[19:40] <MrCraig> yeah - maplin used to be awesome but they've gone very consumer. I have a local RS components and membership too tho and will look up cpc.
[19:41] <m1x10> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx <-- extra zoom lakes etc..
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[20:06] <meefs> danke m1x10
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[20:17] <m1x10> meefs
[20:17] <m1x10> danke ?
[20:18] Nick change: earthshine -> nothingtodowithe
[20:18] <m1x10> anybody knows if google have some api to send coordinates and reply with actual name location?
[20:18] <meefs> m1x10, german for thanks
[20:18] Nick change: nothingtodowithe -> TheArduinoGuy
[20:18] <meefs> I think they might
[20:19] <m1x10> aaa, i know it as tankesen :P
[20:19] <meefs> you should checkout their api list
[20:19] <meefs> see if thats a feature in any
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[20:20] <Randomskk> they do, to a limited extent
[20:20] <Randomskk> it's called reverse geocoding
[20:21] Nick change: TheArduinoGuy -> earthshine
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[20:29] <fsphil> ever compile up some code you just know shouldn't work, but compiled cleanly .. and worked
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[20:34] <MrCraig> are you kidding? that's what I do for a living.
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[20:40] Nick change: DagoRed -> DagoRed|solderin
[20:47] Action: SpeedEvil ponders replacing the guts of his broken scale.
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad7195/products/product.html should do insanely nicely.
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> There are fun parts coming out.
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11448372
[20:49] <m1x10> hey everyone, new version of my backup recovery system: http://imagebin.org/116472
[20:49] <MrCraig> sweet m1x10
[20:50] <m1x10> the last change is that i drilled the gms antenna so its stable
[20:50] <m1x10> and i cut some some sparkfun shield :P
[20:50] <m1x10> thanks MrCraig
[20:50] <MrCraig> I've not seen this before - it'll sms you?
[20:50] <m1x10> yeah
[20:50] <m1x10> its in constant sleep until I sms it
[20:51] <m1x10> sends sms with coords from gps
[20:51] <m1x10> then sleep again
[20:51] <MrCraig> :-) cool - I was thinking of slapping a pic chip on the keypad of an old pre-pay mobile.
[20:51] <m1x10> :p
[20:52] <m1x10> old mobile idea is good
[20:52] <m1x10> but i dont like that things are here and there with wires
[20:52] <MrCraig> I don't think I'd have the skills to do the kind of work you've done there.
[20:52] <m1x10> MrCraig, Dont say that. Im totally noob.
[20:52] <m1x10> People here helped me
[20:52] <MrCraig> Can you buy modules for gsm?
[20:52] <m1x10> they even gave me soldering lessons when i first joined this channel
[20:53] <m1x10> yeah see sparkfun
[20:53] <m1x10> GSM Shield
[20:53] <m1x10> the gsm is on 2nd floor
[20:53] <m1x10> 3rd is gps
[20:54] <MrCraig> I could do with some of those lol - I recently built my pic programmer from parts in a kit - the kit says "advanced level soldering" - my results weren't overly bad but a bit untidy, and one of the IC sockets wasn't quite even when I soldered it in, but it works.
[20:54] <MrCraig> these are sheilds for audrino (or however it's spelt) ?
[20:54] <m1x10> yeah arduino shield
[20:55] <m1x10> but recently I just hate arduino
[20:55] <m1x10> :p
[20:55] <m1x10> and I will try not to use it and build my own boards
[20:55] <MrCraig> they look interesting - I've only ever used pics, but there are 'shields' and all kinds of modules avail for the arduino which I think would make life easier.
[20:56] <m1x10> yeah thats true
[20:56] <m1x10> ive never did pics
[20:56] <m1x10> as i said im totally noob
[20:56] <m1x10> i have experience with electronics and chips about 5-6 months
[20:57] <m1x10> arduino helped me a lot to understand many things
[20:57] <m1x10> now that i got some new experience level
[20:57] <MrCraig> ahh, well I'm certainly not ahead of you - I've been interested in electronics for a very long time and studied it in college - but I dropped out of college and haven't done anything practical in about 10 years
[20:57] <m1x10> i start to hate it :p
[20:57] <MrCraig> lol - my xp comes from programming since the 8-bit days.
[20:57] <m1x10> oh
[20:57] <m1x10> you sound a bit big :)
[20:58] <fsphil> 8-bit ftw :)
[20:58] <MrCraig> lol - just old school
[20:59] <m1x10> fsphil is one of the guys here that have tought me much
[20:59] <MrCraig> :-) cool
[20:59] <m1x10> Randomskk and SpeedEvil too
[21:00] <m1x10> they are certainly going to help you
[21:00] <fsphil> not that much ;) I'm fairly newbie too when it comes to circuits and things
[21:00] <MrCraig> hmm, volunteering them on my behalf lol - I may request to be your paddiwan m1x10 :-P
[21:00] <m1x10> they dont even know me, and i have learned that much from them, that now i design PCBs
[21:00] <MrCraig> that's a really bad reference, I want to steer clear of strong forces.
[21:01] <MrCraig> that's really cool :-)
[21:01] <m1x10> Here, I realised the good side of Internet.
[21:02] <MrCraig> do you, or anyone here use pcb simulation software or schematic software? I found something called Target 3001! looks very interesting, it does schematics and will build a 3D model of the finished board too, but seems light on simulation features and doesn't have anything in the way of autorouting like the stuff I used in school.
[21:03] <m1x10> i dont know this software
[21:03] <m1x10> most people here use eagle
[21:03] <m1x10> kicad
[21:03] <m1x10> I use some other called DipTrace
[21:03] <m1x10> I know that Altium can make 3D also.
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[21:04] <m1x10> brb
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[21:06] <MrCraig2> B.T. has a lot to answer for
[21:06] <fsphil> talktalk are much worse
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[21:07] Nick change: MrCraig2 -> MrCraig
[21:07] <MrCraig> tbh B.T themselves haven't been bad - it's their crappy modem - it locks up every so often and has to be reset.
[21:07] <MrCraig> I'm chasing on firmware patches, my brother has the same issue.
[21:08] <fsphil> might be worth getting a non-BT one
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> and crossed wires as well
[21:09] <MrCraig> yeah - I have a linksys laying around, it's a wifi router but not modem - but I figured I'll try patching it into the BT hub and use it for wifi (in the hope that wired is more stable to the hub)
[21:09] <fsphil> A Netgear DG834G would do both handy enough
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[21:09] <MrCraig> :-) cools
[21:10] <fsphil> though I had one die on me recently for no apparent reason, they're normally very reliable
[21:10] <fsphil> actually I must dig that out again - could just have been the psu
[21:10] <MrCraig> yep - I recognise the brand for reliability, I used to swap out cisco parts for them at a previous job
[21:11] <fsphil> got a little Billion doing the job atm, free from nildram (before they got gobbled up by talktalk)
[21:12] <MrCraig> wow, nildram are still around? Their customer service suuucked. We had an sdsl with sla, they never missed an SLA but they were rarely pleasent to talk to
[21:14] <fsphil> I found them pretty good pre-talktalk -- now they're just crooks
[21:14] <MrCraig> :-/
[21:14] <fsphil> I asked them for a mac code this week, but instead they put me on their LLU service -- which will cost me £50 to switch away from
[21:15] <Upu> they aren't allowed to refuse a mac code
[21:15] <MrCraig> wow, out for the fee's
[21:15] <fsphil> I know Upu , but they're doing their best -- they promised it twice but it's yet to materialise
[21:15] <fsphil> the LLU thing just happened today
[21:15] <Upu> I'll get you a contact number we have huge issues with them , they absolutely suck
[21:16] <Upu> if you request a MAC they have to give you one within 48 hours no messing about
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> is W0OTM here?
[21:16] <fsphil> ah, I thought it was five days max -- it's been about 8 now
[21:17] <Upu> no sure it's 48 hours I'll double check when I get to work
[21:17] <fsphil> thanks
[21:17] <fsphil> I'll be glad to be rid of them
[21:17] <Upu> Zen
[21:17] <Upu> aren the only real quality player at the moment
[21:19] <MrCraig> virgin seem to depend on if your account is with the half of the business that used to be NTL (mostly in the north) and the half that was blueyonder (south) - in the south I never had problems with service or billing - when I was in the midlands omfg.
[21:19] <fsphil> woo, I get fttc early next year
[21:19] <Upu> Yeah it's awesome I have it
[21:20] <Upu> 8.5Mb/sec upload
[21:20] Action: fsphil drools
[21:20] <fsphil> I have a nestbox webcam during the spring time, takes up most of my upload bandwidth. will be nice to have the extra room spare
[21:21] <Upu> http://www.speedtest.net/result/973371126.png
[21:21] <Upu> download should be way over that but Enta suck hugh amounts of bottom
[21:22] <fsphil> heh, our office at work has two lines -- entanet and nildram :)
[21:22] <Upu> ouch
[21:22] <fsphil> the entanet one is mostly upload, works really well
[21:22] <Upu> I have over 300 connections with Enta and they have about 3 days left to sort their Leeds POP out or they are all moving
[21:22] <Upu> yeah upload is fine but downloads are useless in the day on the Leeds POP
[21:27] <fsphil> zen seem pretty good. I was also considering A&A
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[21:29] <MrCraig> goodnight L
[21:29] <fsphil> nighters
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[23:00] <MrCraig> night nights
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 1 2010