[00:03] <natrium42> www should redirect to non-www :P
[00:03] <Randomskk> indeed it should
[00:06] <Randomskk> s/should/now does
[00:07] <natrium42> \o/
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[05:03] <madEngineer> Hello
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[05:23] Nick change: madEngineer -> NV1K
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[05:57] <NV1K> Hello
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[06:07] <NV1K> Hello
[06:07] <DagoRed> hi?
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[06:09] <NV1K> Hello
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[08:27] <juxta> Hi all
[08:40] <Upu> morning
[08:50] <juxta> hey Upu
[08:50] <juxta> how's the payload coming along?
[08:51] <Upu> payload is done I think
[08:51] <Upu> just need a PCB made now
[08:51] <Upu> and then I think I'm good to go
[08:51] <Upu> seen the pics ?
[08:51] <Upu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/avahab/sets/72157624924217198/
[08:52] <Upu> I need to sit down and design the PCB which I've done a few times but just not been happy with it
[09:25] Laurenceb (80f3fd6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[09:25] <Laurenceb> hi
[09:27] <Randomskk> yo
[09:27] <Randomskk> so, turns out the HDCP master key was legit
[09:27] Action: Laurenceb has added BMP085 to the USB dongle
[09:28] <Laurenceb> hope theres space for all this...
[09:28] <Laurenceb> idea being you can get a ground[pressuremeasurement
[09:28] <Laurenceb> stupid keyboard
[09:30] <Laurenceb> heh someone already interfaced the BMP085 with the ft232r
[09:31] <Randomskk> useful
[09:32] <Laurenceb> im just trying to find some pressure data sets to see if this would actuallybe useful
[09:33] <Laurenceb> say you launch a high altitude glider, the surfacepressure will change during the flight
[09:33] <Laurenceb> but how much is the question
[09:34] <Randomskk> one sec
[09:34] <Randomskk> http://weather.hexoc.com/graphs/1d/pressure.php
[09:34] <Randomskk> jonsowman's weather station
[09:34] <Laurenceb> oh sweet
[09:34] <Laurenceb> perfect - the metro ftp site usually only have samples at 3 hour intervals
[09:34] <Laurenceb> *sies
[09:35] <Randomskk> he has years of historic data at that kind of sample rate iirc
[09:35] <Laurenceb> arg - this keyboard is half destroyed :P
[09:36] <Laurenceb> hmm 1.5 mb in half an hour
[09:36] <Laurenceb> and thats just today
[10:07] <Laurenceb> http://weather.hexoc.com/graphs/select_all.php?sd=14&sm=09&sy=10&sh=17&ed=14&em=09&ey=10&eh=19&wss=0.5&wsan=20&wsas=0.5&ms=0.5&p=on&x=1000&y=600&xs=0.3&lw=1&title=Combined+Graph&aa=on
[10:08] <Laurenceb> about 3mb/hour
[10:08] <Laurenceb> so thats 30m/hour drift
[10:08] <Randomskk> which is pretty significant
[10:09] <Laurenceb> yeah - BMP085on the dongle is very useful
[10:09] <Randomskk> every commit to open-bldc I see on github makes me more tempted to drop my controller and go with theirs
[10:09] <Randomskk> http://github.com/esden/open-bldc it was massive for v1, but their latest v3 prototype is pretty tiny
[10:10] <Randomskk> really expensive, though
[10:10] <Randomskk> otoh, 20A, active freewheeling, active brake, vector control, ...
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[10:12] <Laurenceb> freewheeling seems very smart
[10:12] <Laurenceb> especially onlower voltage operation
[10:13] <Laurenceb> whats vector control doing?
[10:14] <russss> motor controllers are deceptively cunning
[10:14] <Randomskk> tell me about it
[10:14] <Laurenceb> shifting the pwmphase offset?
[10:14] <Laurenceb> its rather big and hardcore
[10:15] <Randomskk> I still think it would be useful to have a really really cheap design though
[10:15] <Laurenceb> stm32 and 26x60mm
[10:15] <Randomskk> yea
[10:15] <Laurenceb> thats almost as big as dactyl
[10:16] <Laurenceb> i dont see why avr shouldnt be fast enough
[10:16] <Laurenceb> uslessyou are experimenting with really fast motors
[10:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=185
[10:35] <Laurenceb> "Checkout the data (in the tutorial above) we received before we lost contact with the balloon. The BMP085 is awesome and continued to give us data at 52,000 feet."
[10:35] <Randomskk> oh nice
[10:41] <Laurenceb> theres a freescale sensor that claims low pressure operation
[10:41] <Laurenceb> - lower
[10:41] <Laurenceb> but looks like if the bmp goes that low its better
[10:53] <Laurenceb> http://www.flyingwings.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=158_121&products_id=790 <- nice airframe
[10:57] <russss> nice
[10:58] <Laurenceb> http://www.flyingwings.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=158_162&products_id=777
[10:58] <Laurenceb> cheaper and smaller
[10:58] <Laurenceb> and plenty of space for mounting tronics
[10:59] Action: russss has nowhere to fly fixed-wings though :(
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[10:59] <russss> nice price though
[11:00] <Randomskk> given as for £60 it appears to be flight ready
[11:00] <Randomskk> comes with battery, motor controller, motor, servos...
[11:00] <Randomskk> ah, maybe not a receiver.
[11:01] <Laurenceb> ive got a nice one already
[11:01] <Laurenceb> you can pick up 35MHz DSP receivers on ebay cheap
[11:02] <Randomskk> yea
[11:02] <Laurenceb> nice design - pretty hard to destroy the motor
[11:03] <Laurenceb> of course... if i got that id just be flying it all the time and wouldnt do anything more with it :P
[11:04] <Randomskk> :P yea
[11:04] <Randomskk> I was so tempted by one of them a while back
[11:04] <Randomskk> sounds fun
[11:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.flyingwings.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=63_65&products_id=666 <- ive got that Rx
[11:04] <Laurenceb> cheaper onebay
[11:07] <Laurenceb> the dual ant 2.4Gstuff has come down inprice, not 100% convinced its as reliable as claimed tho
[12:15] <jonsowman> hi all
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> hi
[13:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzinCflNrCI
[13:18] <Laurenceb> looks good - plentyof thrust
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[13:42] <juxta> ebay sellers, hmmmm
[13:42] <juxta> just received 24 energizer lithiums which are not in their packaging
[13:42] <Randomskk> heh
[13:42] <Randomskk> :/
[13:43] <jonsowman> nice
[13:44] <juxta> voltage seems OK on them
[13:46] <jonsowman> under load?
[13:47] <juxta> havent loaded them
[13:47] <juxta> just open circuit
[13:47] <jonsowman> voltages would likely look fine even if they were nearly dead
[13:47] <juxta> will do some better testing on them tomorrow I guess
[13:47] <juxta> good point
[13:47] <Laurenceb> maybe they wanted to save postage
[13:47] <m1x10> juxta, hi
[13:47] <juxta> actually let me load them now, I have a rig I made for discharging nicd's ;p
[13:47] <m1x10> how much did u paid?
[13:48] <juxta> $12 AUD for 24 batteries, haha
[13:48] <juxta> very cheap ;p
[13:48] <m1x10> oh
[13:48] <m1x10> yeah here 2 costs ~6E
[13:53] <juxta> current delivery from them is about 6A
[13:56] <juxta> jonsowman, what do you reckon the voltage should look like under load?
[13:58] <jonsowman> depends on current
[13:58] <jonsowman> lithiums tend to be quite good at holding their voltage even under a reasonable amount of current
[13:59] <jonsowman> which makes determining their remaining life quite difficult
[13:59] <jonsowman> juxta:data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pd
[13:59] <jonsowman> first two graphs on page 2
[14:00] <jonsowman> so get about 50mA going through them and you should be able to use that first graph to give you an estimate of their life
[14:00] <juxta> that link seems to 404, but remembering now I think I actually linked to the datasheet somewhere on ukhas.org.uk, let me find it
[14:00] <jonsowman> oh I missed the f
[14:00] <juxta> oh
[14:00] <jonsowman> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[14:00] <juxta> hehe
[14:01] <jonsowman> there you go, sorry
[14:01] <juxta> okay, here's the one I had:
[14:01] <juxta> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
[14:01] <jonsowman> ah that's a nicer DS
[14:02] <juxta> either works :)
[14:02] <m1x10> ok, I found a Top Seller giving 30 L91s at 8.37$ free shipping. It says place bid. Whats this?
[14:02] <m1x10> its bargain?
[14:02] <jonsowman> at that price yes, but it's an auction (I assume)
[14:03] <m1x10> http://cgi.ebay.com/30-AA-ENERGIZER-ULTLIMATE-LITHIUM-BATTERIES-EX-2025-NIB-/140453610607?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item20b3b0046f#ht_3115wt_1137
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[14:05] <juxta> looks like they might be OK, but it's hard to say with such a flat curve
[14:05] <Randomskk> test one to death
[14:05] <juxta> yeah that's what i'll do
[14:05] <juxta> pop a set in the a560 and see how many photos it manages
[14:06] <m1x10> juxta one seller says his puts the batteries in homemade packs because he buys them bulk. Not in the usual packaging.
[14:06] <juxta> yeah, but whether that's true or not is another issue :)
[14:08] <m1x10> the specific guy is a Top seller
[14:08] <m1x10> "Important Notes:I receive these in large bulk and ship in a self made package"
[14:12] <m1x10> AU $25.88
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[14:36] <juxta> I bought a new USB card reader to be able to read SDHC cards
[14:36] <juxta> third one now, specifically labelled as being able to read SDHC, but it can't, argh
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[15:04] <johnnyfive|work> Morning!
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[15:46] <Darkside> juxta: this is why i just used the camera :P
[15:46] <juxta> seems to work one out of 2 times it's plugged int
[15:46] <juxta> in*
[15:46] <juxta> (the card reader that is)
[15:47] <Darkside> heh
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[16:25] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[16:26] <W0OTM> QRP Goes To Near Space http://www.eham.net/articles/24587
[16:26] <W0OTM> Iowa High Altitude Balloon Launch http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=264030
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[16:48] <m1x10> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasacommons/4857948661/
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[17:38] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> ih
[17:39] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2010/09/16/low-power-wireless-home-automation-sensors/
[17:39] <Laurenceb> interesting
[17:39] <Laurenceb> i doubt the custom silicon is really needed
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's kind of pointless
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> For example - zigbee gets the same life
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[18:01] <m1x10> why the nose of my solder broke ??!
[18:01] <m1x10> its metal, how its possible !?
[18:01] <Randomskk> metal can break.
[18:02] <m1x10> ok, but i guess solders dont break to everyone
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[18:49] <fsphil> ack, I've been firing out sstv images on 2m -- I can finally hear someone else sending but it's too weak to decode
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[19:30] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/0A3LG.png
[19:30] <Laurenceb> ^RF is done :P now onto the layout
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[21:05] <thorirg> I have a balloon that's being released on Sunday and I wanted to use dl-fldigi, how can I add my balloon to the database?
[21:05] <Randomskk> we need some sample telemetry strings
[21:06] Nick change: DagoRed -> DR-mav_meet
[21:06] <Randomskk> I take it you've run a prediction and it's using a format that we can parse? ($$CALLSIGN,time,lat,lon,alt,speed etc)
[21:06] <Randomskk> (and a checksum)
[21:06] <thorirg> $$voyeurv,+64 08.3575,-021 57.7196,00015,69$$
[21:06] <thorirg> $$voyeurv,+64 08.3576,-021 57.7195,00015,6a$$
[21:07] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:07] <thorirg> It got the name voyeurvoyager, haha :)
[21:07] <Randomskk> and what are the fields?
[21:07] <Randomskk> you may need to make some changes to the format for it to work with the distributed listener thing and map. if you just use fldigi locally it'l work but uh
[21:08] <thorirg> $$callsign,lat,lon,checksum$$
[21:08] <Randomskk> what's 00015 then?
[21:08] <Randomskk> for the checksum it has to be like $$callsign,lat,lon,alt*checksum
[21:08] <thorirg> sorry, $$callsign,lat,lon,alt,checksum$$
[21:08] <Randomskk> but also ideally you should use a crc16 checksum. what are you using? xor?
[21:08] <thorirg> yeah
[21:09] <thorirg> Yeah, xor. Do we need to use crc16?
[21:09] <Randomskk> uh, it should still work with xor, but crc16 is much better. what flight computer are you running?
[21:09] <Randomskk> like, a PICAXE? AVR? arduino?
[21:09] <Randomskk> something more exotic?
[21:09] <thorirg> hehe, arduino.
[21:09] <Randomskk> there's code for doing a crc16 checksum
[21:10] <Randomskk> uh, you should try and put a message ID in there too, usually right after the callsign, just an incrementing integer
[21:10] <Randomskk> so you know if you've missed messages etc
[21:10] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol?s=crc
[21:10] <Randomskk> just like $$voyeurv,001,blabla $$voyeurv,002
[21:10] <thorirg> yeah
[21:10] <Randomskk> also usually people put GPS time in there too, after that message ID
[21:13] <thorirg> ok, so $$callsign, id,time, lat, lon, alt, chksum$$ would be ideal?
[21:13] <Upu> where are you launching from ?
[21:13] <thorirg> Iceland
[21:14] <Upu> Should be interesting collecting that
[21:14] <thorirg> Yep!
[21:14] <Upu> I've been to Iceland :)
[21:14] <Upu> not exactly smooth open farm land
[21:14] <thorirg> Hehe, I'm just praying it's not going to end up on a mountain.
[21:15] <Upu> Yeah you need to pray very hard in that place :)
[21:15] <Upu> best of luck
[21:15] <thorirg> hehe, thanks!
[21:16] <thorirg> So is it possible to add $$voyeurv, id,time, lat, lon, alt, chksum$$ to your database?
[21:17] <thorirg> With xor chmsum for the time being.
[21:18] <Randomskk> thorirg: alt*checksum
[21:18] <Randomskk> and no $$ at the end
[21:18] <Randomskk> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol bit like that
[21:18] <Randomskk> which I see Upu already linked
[21:18] <Randomskk> that page also has the code for the crc16 checksum
[21:20] <Randomskk> thorirg: also need to know your radio settings. baud, stop bits, parity etc
[21:20] <Randomskk> (one day this will all be easy and automated!)
[21:22] <thorirg> 50 baud, 8 bits, 1 stop bit, 0 parity.
[21:23] <Randomskk> ascii-8, ascii-7 or baudot?
[21:23] <Randomskk> (bits per character)
[21:24] <thorirg> ascii-8
[21:24] <Randomskk> (also, upper or lower sideband? frequency?)
[21:24] <Randomskk> oh, and finally shift between the two rtty signals
[21:24] <Randomskk> sorry, this really is going to be easy and automated one day soon :P
[21:25] <thorirg> no problem. :)
[21:25] <thorirg> USB and 650 shift
[21:25] <Randomskk> 650? nice big shift. frequency?
[21:26] <Randomskk> and uh, the payload format will be $$payload,message,time,lat,lon,alt*checksum right?
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[21:26] <thorirg> yes that's the format
[21:27] <thorirg> frequency is 434.6475
[21:27] <Randomskk> excellent. and apparently you also need to have a newline at the end of each message, which you may or may not be doing.
[21:28] <Randomskk> i.e. just a \n
[21:28] <thorirg> ok
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[21:30] <DR-mav_meet> Stupid genearl question, who here has use stratostar?
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[21:31] <thorirg> We are going to be doing tests tomorrow, is it okay to be filling your database with false launches?
[21:31] <Randomskk> yea, we can clear them.
[21:32] <thorirg> Great, do you have all the information you need?
[21:33] <Randomskk> yes, I believe so
[21:35] <thorirg> Is the dropdown list synced from you server? Will I be able to select my balloon from that list? Sorry for all the questions. :)
[21:36] <Randomskk> yea, it is, and it should just appear there... soon. uhm, your dl-fldigi is probably set to use robertharrison.org as the listen server, which I can't put a new xml onto right now
[21:37] <Randomskk> but the new xml is ready and someone else will put it there shortly
[21:37] <Randomskk> shortly means as soon as I can prod one of them
[21:37] <thorirg> I see, thanks a lot!
[21:39] <Randomskk> at any rate it should be ready in time for your testing
[21:39] <Randomskk> testing is very much a good idea, means you can check the dl thing is working and it actually shows up on the map before letting go :P
[21:40] <thorirg> Haha, yeah that was the idea. :)
[21:40] <thorirg> We'll see tomorrow. Thanks for all the help again!
[21:40] <Randomskk> no problem
[21:40] <Randomskk> good luck!
[21:40] <thorirg> thanks
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[21:48] <Upu> that is going straight down a volcano
[21:49] <fsphil> lol
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[21:50] <Upu> I love Iceland but seriously its like mordor in places
[21:51] Nick change: DR-mav_meet -> DagoRed
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[22:00] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:00] Nick change: madEngineer -> nv1k
[22:00] Action: jcoxon has just done 12days straight of work - super tired
[22:00] <nv1k> hello
[22:00] <Randomskk> yo jcoxon
[22:00] <jcoxon> hi nv1k
[22:00] <Randomskk> ouch!
[22:00] <Randomskk> so much for weekends D:
[22:00] <jcoxon> the beauty of on call i guess
[22:01] <Randomskk> something like that. do you get more time off to compensate or does it just override time off?
[22:01] <Randomskk> (do you at least get paid overtime?)
[22:01] <jcoxon> i get paid a bit more for antisocial hours but its not really an appropriate increase considering the hours we actually work
[22:02] <Randomskk> D:
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[22:02] <jcoxon> oh well enough about that
[22:03] <jcoxon> looking at the logs did that xml get put on the server
[22:03] <Randomskk> nah
[22:03] <jcoxon> want me to do it?
[22:03] <Randomskk> it's at http://habhub.org/payload_xml/voyeurv.xml
[22:03] <Randomskk> if you could that'd be great.
[22:03] <Randomskk> fl-fldigi loads it if I point its server at habhub, but I'm not entirely sure it's correct. will have to see if it works when he tests it
[22:03] <Randomskk> dl-fldigi, even
[22:04] <jcoxon> oh cool
[22:04] <jcoxon> glad that server box works
[22:04] <Randomskk> yup, seems to work nicely
[22:04] <Randomskk> work is storming ahead on the habitat, the new listener thing
[22:04] <Randomskk> DanielRichman has written hundreds of lines of code, loads of tests, there's docs too, I've written a little bit of code, it's going well so far
[22:05] <jcoxon> he is a bit of a machine when it comes to coding
[22:05] <Randomskk> http://github.com/ukhas/habitat http://ci.habhub.org/habitat-develop
[22:05] <jcoxon> right xml added
[22:05] <Randomskk> great, thanks
[22:06] <nv1k> whats that you guys are working on?
[22:07] <Randomskk> nv1k: new server-side code for mapping ballons and stuff
[22:07] <jcoxon> nv1k, we built a distributed listening system to track high altitude balloons
[22:07] <jcoxon> like APRS but much more flexable
[22:07] <jcoxon> thats the 2nd version
[22:08] <Randomskk> jcoxon: we can do listener scores now really easily
[22:08] <Randomskk> it's great.
[22:08] <Randomskk> so you can get points per payload or overall or something
[22:08] <jcoxon> nice
[22:08] <Randomskk> though to be honest it's not really very different from "lines received" we already have >_>
[22:08] <Randomskk> except it can be weighted by distance, so there's that
[22:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:09] <Randomskk> and persists :P
[22:09] <jcoxon> well when you are ready just shout and i'll get people over to start testing it
[22:09] <jcoxon> nv1k, you fly balloons?
[22:10] <nv1k> Yes I fly
[22:11] <jcoxon> cool cool in the states?
[22:11] <nv1k> Yes
[22:11] <nv1k> I'm with Iowa State University
[22:11] <jcoxon> oh cool
[22:12] <nv1k> I thought you guys were working on prediction code and that would have piqued my interests
[22:13] <Randomskk> we do already have quite good prediction code
[22:13] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/predict
[22:13] <nv1k> ours is pretty good as well
[22:13] <nv1k> does your tracking code do real-time wind estimation?
[22:13] <Randomskk> that depends on what you mean by real time wind estimation
[22:13] <Randomskk> also by tracking code, I guess
[22:14] <Randomskk> it runs the predictor for each new position we receive, showing its new predicted trajectory based on its current position
[22:14] <nv1k> but using the original pre-flight wind data, correct?
[22:15] <Randomskk> using the latest available wind data. we use the NOAA NOMAD servers, which update every six hours, so usually there's no change.
[22:15] <nv1k> yeah
[22:15] <Randomskk> ah, you use the data from going up on the way down?
[22:15] <nv1k> working on it
[22:15] <nv1k> among other things
[22:15] <jcoxon> rocketboy has that onboard his flight computer
[22:15] <Randomskk> it would be interesting to see if it was more accurate. you don't usually come down where you went up, so there's drift in both time and location
[22:16] <jcoxon> so the flight computer transmits the predicted landing site
[22:16] <jcoxon> quite cool
[22:16] <Randomskk> that is neat
[22:16] <nv1k> yeah i know the drift
[22:16] <Randomskk> the thing being worked on now is a monty carlo predictor running on GPUs
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[22:16] <Randomskk> uh, monte.
[22:16] <nv1k> heh, i have that going already
[22:17] <Randomskk> do you have a website I can play with?
[22:17] <nv1k> my current project is a zero-pressure prediction algorithm and using measured wind on ascent and at groun level to adjust the wind profile for the descent prediction
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[22:17] <nv1k> nothing is in web form yet
[22:18] <Randomskk> fair enough
[22:18] <nv1k> but our software is at http://www.code.google.com/p/falcon-hab
[22:18] <nv1k> sadly I haven't worked on it nearly as much as I would like
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[22:19] <nv1k> seem to always get too busy building stuff for our upcoming zero pressure flight
[22:19] <jcoxon> cool
[22:19] <jcoxon> going for trans-atlantic?
[22:20] <nv1k> no just a 24-48 hour flight to test our systems
[22:20] <jcoxon> wow nice
[22:20] <jcoxon> good luck!
[22:20] <nv1k> then later this year a really long flight to test our cubesat hardware
[22:20] <jcoxon> much harder then a normal flight
[22:20] <nv1k> are you from the states as well?
[22:20] <jcoxon> no UK
[22:20] <nv1k> Ah
[22:21] <nv1k> drat, winds too high for our Sunday flight
[22:22] Action: LazyLeopard was just looking at the hurricane reports...
[22:23] <nv1k> We have been trying to get an alti record attempt off the ground for 3 weeks...
[22:24] <jcoxon> know the feeling
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[22:25] <nv1k> but with the slow ascent rate... it is going a long way away
[22:25] <jcoxon> yeah thats the payoff
[22:25] <jcoxon> atleast in iowa you've got some distance to play with
[22:25] <jcoxon> the sea isn't that close :-p
[22:25] <nv1k> yeah
[22:25] <jcoxon> thats the challenge in the UK
[22:25] <nv1k> I bet
[22:26] <jcoxon> considering that you are never more then 70miles from the sea
[22:26] <nv1k> our issue is more of violating controlled airspace
[22:29] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:29] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk, WB8ELK launch 18/9/10 17:00UTC http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[22:32] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:36] <nv1k> Hello
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 18 2010