highaltitude.log.20100915

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[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> What plans do you guys have for trans-atlantic telemetry with Alexei's group?
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> There are half-formed ideas to use HF
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> but not concrete, as nobodies got that far
[00:30] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting, we'd like to do it in a month using your system, if you guys are open to it, using 30m likely
[00:31] <Dan-K2VOL> just a latex flight, but on 30m
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> You plan on any bouyancy control?
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> Or just a slow ascent and burst off the coast, or you mean pick up an ariel balloon.
[00:33] <Dan-K2VOL> oh nothing long duration, we just want to test your telemetry system on HF
[00:33] <Dan-K2VOL> a standard latex short flight to burst
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> I'm not actually involved in telemetry - due to lack of rx - and also being at the extremes of range.
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> i'd only see balloons at >25km
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> Comparatively few people have their rx's setup for HF
[00:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it would be nice to support a standard telemetry system for LDB, and you've got the only one that's functional at the moment
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[00:34] <Dan-K2VOL> the old SNOX DTRC is long gone
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> Though APRS has been used too.
[00:35] <Dan-K2VOL> on hf?
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> no
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> But depending on the trajectory, there are stations in various countried
[00:36] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: using the spacenear.us tracker and the listening system generally is no problem
[00:36] <Randomskk> you'll generally need to transmit in the format we use, I don't know if you know what it looks like
[00:36] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, the group is LevelOne, a new hackerspace in the US
[00:37] <Dan-K2VOL> lvl1.org
[00:37] <Randomskk> $$PAYLOAD,time,lat,lon,other data*checksum
[00:37] <Randomskk> a bit like that
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> There was a balloon that launched on the east coast (of US) and went up round
[00:37] <Randomskk> and let someone on here know what your telem looks like so we can prepare a config file for it that gets loaded into dl-fldigi
[00:39] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> How many people would you say have HF ability Randomskk?
[00:40] <Dan-K2VOL> do you guys manage the listener base any way?
[00:40] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: maybe two or three, tops.
[00:40] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: are you planning on receiving the telem yourself or hoping that people in the UK will have HF capability?
[00:40] <Dan-K2VOL> well, we recruited 270 HF listeners for SNOX, so it's not an unsolvable problem
[00:40] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: of whom, an unknown quantity with beams
[00:41] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: yea, if you can find people with HF kit it's not a concern (assuming they can install dl-fldigi)
[00:41] <Dan-K2VOL> we're planning on doing full trans-atlantic flights, so we'd need to build a multi-continent listener base
[00:42] <Randomskk> there are plenty of hams in the UK generally who I imagine have HF access
[00:42] Action: Randomskk has access to the 3 ele multiband hf yagi at CUWS which would be fun
[00:42] <Randomskk> but not many on the ukhas mailing list - or at least, we've never asked for that
[00:44] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm interesting. With the PBH group going to make another attempt this year, us, and with the canadians having a zp balloon, i'd like to explore the idea of making some sort of managed system that allows one to ping all current hf balloon listeners to warn for upcoming flights. It's something that our group may have the ability to contribute the web management system for if no one else wants to first
[00:44] <Randomskk> we've found mailing lists work well there
[00:45] <Randomskk> the ukhas mailing list is what we generally use to announce launches and get people to listen, a load of uk hams are on it
[00:46] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, we used that on DTRC, but it gets a little ungainly when you want to see a map of the stations, or know who can commit to a particular flight easily
[00:46] <Dan-K2VOL> to see geographic coverage holes or time coverage gaps
[00:47] <Randomskk> hmm, that's a point.
[00:47] <Dan-K2VOL> just some ideas, I don't want to step on tools, I just am trying to think of an easier way to manage volunteer listeners
[00:47] <Randomskk> mailing lists do lack the ability to get a good idea of your coverage before the event
[00:47] <Dan-K2VOL> I ran the DTRC volunteer program for SNOX, and it was really a lot to manage over a 40 hour flight
[00:48] <Randomskk> though I suspect you'd still want to hit them up, it would be nice to also see who has said they are somewhere and can listen
[00:48] <Randomskk> we're currently working on a new tracker system for the balloon stuff, but haven't put much thought into a map of listeners in that context. it'd be interesting to play with the idea
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> maybe also a way for stations to tell the tracker their address on install of fl-digi?
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> their location
[00:49] <Randomskk> installing dl-fldigi already asks for your location and then sends it to the system
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> k
[00:49] <Randomskk> but atm there's no coherent log really
[00:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm sounds like it's improving
[00:50] <Randomskk> there's been a lot of work done on dl-fldigi recently
[00:50] <Dan-K2VOL> the map is also helpful if you need to select one to transmit commands to a balloon
[00:51] <Randomskk> that's a really interesting idea that we also haven't thought about at all.
[00:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I've noticed the recent commits, very nice, especially seeing such cross-platform support
[00:51] <Randomskk> in fact that's a really, really, really interesting idea.
[00:51] <SpeedEvil> we've mostly been RX only
[00:51] <Randomskk> the L in dl is a dead giveaway
[00:51] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[00:52] <Randomskk> a lot of radios are not configured to transmit from fldigi
[00:52] <Randomskk> but I imagine a reasonable quantity are or could be
[00:52] <Randomskk> distributed upload is a really interesting idea.
[00:53] <Dan-K2VOL> we thought about it in SNOX but were too forward thinking - DTRC was Distributed Tracking and Relay Client, the Relay was meant to be command relaying from mission control to a particular HF station, but it was never coded into anything
[00:55] <Randomskk> like I said, we're working on a new system for all this which is designed to be open from the ground up, so that anyone can run a copy if they want (or just use the copy we'll be hosting)
[00:55] <Randomskk> both the listener map and the sending-data-out ideas are really interesting and I want to see how we might do that
[00:56] <Randomskk> (http://github.com/ukhas/habitat is the new stuff, though mostly it's been planning up to now)
[00:57] <Dan-K2VOL> We're targeting Dec 2010 - April 2011 for our trans-atlantic attempts. are you guys open to contributions if we can help advance your plans timeline on software development?
[00:57] <Randomskk> definitely open to contributions
[00:57] <Randomskk> it's pythoon, javascript and html
[00:57] <Randomskk> couchdb for backend. the wiki on that github page has instructions for setting up tools and how we're using git to manage contributions
[00:58] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[00:59] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll take a look there
[00:59] <Randomskk> http://github.com/ukhas/habitat/tree/develop/docs/plan/ has various bits and pieces of info on stuff we've planned out
[01:00] <Randomskk> planning-wise, the concept of a map of listeners would be another web interface window and some couchdb docs, fairly trivial to add on in terms of integration with the system
[01:00] <Randomskk> sending messages backwards would require some rethinks in the messaging server but is probably lower priority (if very awesome)
[01:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, even we wouldn't think to try distributed upload by this winter
[01:01] <Randomskk> the current system does work, so it can be used to get the telemetry and plot the map and all that
[01:01] <Dan-K2VOL> have you guys thought about planning for slashdotting effect on the web UI? it
[01:01] <Randomskk> while the new system does sod all at the moment
[01:01] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[01:01] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: yea. the design should take considerable load without much issue
[01:02] <Randomskk> the website is a static html file and a single compressed javascript file, both of which are heavily cached by the web server (we're using cherokee, which handles that kind of thing exceptionally well)
[01:02] <Randomskk> (better than apache, as well as/better than nginx or lighttpd)
[01:02] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[01:02] <Randomskk> the backend is just used for people putting new messages into the system, and is going to be a python generator pipeline, so multithreaded and again should be able to cope with reasonable amounts of volume
[01:03] <Randomskk> the database is couchdb which again scales fantastically. you can cluster and replicate it in seconds if needed, but it's high performance even on a single host
[01:03] <Randomskk> so for the "lots and lots of people viewing a map" situation it's easy: each one gets some static html and javascript (almost no problem at all, even for many many viewers) and then hits the couchdb directly to get the data (no app logic in the way)
[01:04] <Randomskk> couch caches its output data anyway and we can replicate it if needed, so it should tolerate many viewers easily
[01:04] <Randomskk> there's also points for integrating filters and things if someone tried to DoS the system with lots of fake data inserts
[01:04] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[01:04] <Dan-K2VOL> on the current system?
[01:04] <Randomskk> no.
[01:05] <Randomskk> the current system is less designed and more put together as needed - it works, and fairly well, but it (probably) wouldn't handle being slashdotted
[01:05] <Randomskk> it's a load of php hitting mysql stores to display the map data, and without caching.
[01:05] <Randomskk> so yes, the new system sounds very nice on paper, but doesn't exist yet
[01:06] <Randomskk> however I think it should be fairly readily assembled from plan
[01:06] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, ok
[01:07] <Randomskk> but yes, those are famous last words
[01:09] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[01:09] <Dan-K2VOL> where do you guys host?
[01:10] <Randomskk> right now on habhub.org we have a dedicated server in a dc in manchester
[01:10] <Randomskk> which Upu in here donated
[01:10] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[01:10] <Dan-K2VOL> how's the current timeline on the new system
[01:11] <Randomskk> good question. we don't have a timeline
[01:11] <Randomskk> well. we have a critical path of activities but no times.
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[01:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, let's keep thinking on this, as we'd need to target the system to be functional and tested by Dec 2010, but are willing to contribute the labor to accelerate things, if you guys are amenable. why don't you guys talk about the idea a bit, and we'll keep in touch
[01:16] <Dan-K2VOL> who are you random, btw :-)
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[01:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm Dan Bowen, dbowen1@mac.com
[01:16] Action: Randomskk is Adam Greig <random@randomskk.net>
[01:16] <Randomskk> I like to imagine we'd have something working by decemeber, but it really depends on how much effort everyone (me included) can put in
[01:17] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, good talking with you Adam, we're about to break into a balloon meeting here!
[01:17] <Randomskk> if you want to work on any of it that's absolutely fine - the whole reason to use git and the rest is to make it very easy for people to contribute
[01:17] <Randomskk> have fun :D
[01:18] <Randomskk> within a week or two we should have enough of a framework in place to actually make contributing useful.
[01:18] <Dan-K2VOL> cool!
[01:19] Action: Randomskk needs to finish assigned programming work before he can really start writing much code for habitat, but has enough time to blitz a fair bit of it soonish.
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[03:09] <Darkside> hmm
[03:10] <Darkside> juxta: so, will you be attending the technical symposium?
[03:10] <juxta> on Sunday?
[03:10] <Darkside> yerp
[03:10] <juxta> i'll see how thing go - a little swamped at the moment :)
[03:10] <Darkside> im interested in drew diamonds homebrew techniques
[03:11] <juxta> have started a bit of a rebuild of the carputer
[03:11] <Darkside> cool
[03:11] <Darkside> i need to get a good mobile HF radio...
[03:11] <juxta> but i dont have time for that at the moment either, hehe
[03:11] <Darkside> still havent got my tax return through, so dont have th emoney to buy a R10 atm
[03:14] <juxta> by the way - next launch is 10/10/10 wx permitting :)
[03:14] <Darkside> cool :)
[03:14] <Darkside> i'll be working on a high power (well, up to 5W) amplifier over the next few days
[03:14] <juxta> nice
[03:15] <juxta> should be some room aboard for you if you want to fly on it
[03:15] <Darkside> my little low power one isn't working as well as i'd hoped
[03:15] <Darkside> hopefully i can dial down the output power of this amp i'm making to something sensible
[03:16] <juxta> I have an R10 on loan from Adrian at the moment
[03:17] <Darkside> heh
[03:17] <Darkside> working well?
[03:19] <Darkside> there aren't any on eBay atm :(
[03:20] <Darkside> i
[03:20] <Darkside> theres a few R20s for $550 or so, but i don't know if i want to spend that much money on a scanner without trunk tracking
[03:36] <juxta> there was an r10 for about $240 last week
[03:37] <juxta> I considered it, but I'll hang around for one a little cheaper
[03:37] <Darkside> mm
[04:02] <Darkside> im thinking of getting an R10 for SSB stuffs and HF, and then one of the uniden trunking scanners for GRN
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[07:36] <m1x10> ah, my radio chip still works! Thank u god. 50E less damage.
[07:37] <m1x10> for some stupid reason i changed the playback rate to 48000
[07:37] <m1x10> 2 days i was sad ! Im happy again !
[08:38] <Darkside> cooooool, got DominoEX8 working
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[09:04] <juxta> nice work Darkside
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[09:33] <Laurenceb> http://vimeo.com/14348524
[09:33] <Laurenceb> ^insane
[09:35] <russss> what is that?
[09:35] <russss> nice scenery
[09:37] <Laurenceb> RC plane with custom RC gear for long range
[09:37] <Laurenceb> http://vimeo.com/14541093
[10:50] <Laurenceb> bah
[10:50] <Laurenceb> spotted a mistake on the boards i ordered - used the wrong gpio pin on the si4432
[10:51] <Laurenceb> itll try and output a clock signalt to the rf switch on power up... guess its not the end of the world
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> So it's OK once you reassign pins?
[10:52] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> or disable stuff
[10:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:52] <Laurenceb> i mixedup GPIO 1 and 2
[10:52] <Laurenceb> forgot it started from 0 not 1
[10:53] <Laurenceb> when counting the pins
[10:53] <Laurenceb> oh i checked with the polish lsm303dlh webstore, they have stock
[10:58] <Laurenceb> about the onlyplace that does
[11:00] <Laurenceb> oh i solved the usb dongle size issue - you can use two sma connectors side by side - looks like usb dongles can be 18mm wide and sma is 9mm
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:03] <Laurenceb> i was considering using the si4432 clk out to clock the stm32
[12:04] <Laurenceb> that was you dont have clock squew issues... but you have to populate the si4432 if you want to do anything with theboard
[12:04] <Laurenceb> and one of the aims was you could populate only the bitsyouwanted to use
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[13:43] <juxta> ping Darkside
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[13:59] <Darkside> juxta:
[13:59] <Darkside> hey
[13:59] <juxta> hey Darkside - was just wondering what that phone of yours was
[13:59] <Darkside> nokia n900
[14:01] <juxta> cheers :)
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[15:51] <johnnyfive|work> Mornin!
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[16:58] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:58] <Randomskk> hi
[16:58] <jcoxon> hey Randomskk
[16:58] <jcoxon> my fsa03 is working :-D
[16:59] <Randomskk> :D woo
[17:00] <jcoxon> terrible signal in my house - guess its all the double glazing
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[17:05] <griffonbot> @dbsnyder: http://youtu.be/hvk3hurtEVY "Does anyone see anything wrong here?" #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/dbsnyder/status/24587533986]
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[17:25] <Laurenceb> hi
[17:25] <Randomskk> yo
[17:26] <jcoxon> hey Laurenceb
[17:26] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ive been looking into usb dongle design
[17:26] <Laurenceb> hi jcoxon
[17:26] <Laurenceb> you can fit two end launch sma connectors side by side and still have room for it to fit on almost all machines
[17:27] <Laurenceb> so that solves that one
[17:27] <Laurenceb> the FTDI2232 or whatever its called - it has two IO units, so i planned to have one for RF and one for UART comms
[17:29] <Laurenceb> but the VCC for the IO unit has to be in the range 3 to 5v and applied when VCC is present
[17:29] <Laurenceb> so that means an external level shifter or theres a risk of frying it
[17:29] <Laurenceb> so - i think FT232R is the best bet, you can use syncronous GPIO at 1MHz
[17:29] <Laurenceb> and best of all its supported across platforms
[17:30] <Randomskk> nice
[17:30] <Laurenceb> and smaller, and inbulit osc, and eeprom
[17:30] <Laurenceb> so it could be made a 500ma device
[17:30] <Randomskk> even better
[17:30] <Randomskk> I don't get the two sma connectors side by side thing?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> hence... battery charger
[17:30] <Randomskk> why not just put them at a board edge? or vertical-mount?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> use the ant diversity
[17:30] <Laurenceb> algorythm on the si4432
[17:31] <Randomskk> I get why you'd want two SMA sockets, but what's the issue with spacing them?
[17:31] <Laurenceb> it makes the dongle smaller and more practical IMO
[17:31] <Laurenceb> if you have e.g. usb flash drive one side and mouse on the other
[17:32] <Laurenceb> USB ports on the machines i checked were 18mm centers
[17:32] <Randomskk> but the SMA sockets can have the cable insertion in the direction of the normal to the pcb
[17:32] <Laurenceb> no
[17:32] <Laurenceb> end launch ones
[17:32] <Randomskk> well, if end ones fit then I guess that's even better anyway
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[17:32] <Laurenceb> http://www.rfconnector.com/images/SASF55ZGT.jpg
[17:32] <timbobel> how long will an arduino survive when you give it 12v..?
[17:33] <Laurenceb> 0 seconds
[17:33] <Randomskk> an arduino board will survive 12V fine
[17:33] <timbobel> sure?
[17:33] <timbobel> its kind of the
[17:33] <Laurenceb> oh for power its ok
[17:33] <timbobel> maximum recommended
[17:33] <Randomskk> it has a regulator 7V to 18V
[17:33] <Randomskk> or so
[17:33] <timbobel> yeah right
[17:33] <Randomskk> 12V will be very wasteful.
[17:33] <timbobel> actually 7~21
[17:33] <Randomskk> more than half your input energy goes to heat
[17:33] <Laurenceb> size should be about 18mm *55 total outpine
[17:33] <timbobel> wont the heat kill it
[17:33] <Laurenceb> with connectors mounted
[17:33] <Randomskk> no
[17:33] <Randomskk> so, it'l last at 12V for as long as you want, but it's a stupid voltage to run off unless you actually need 12V
[17:33] <timbobel> would you say i could leave it on for a year?
[17:34] <Randomskk> well, yes, but it'd be stupid and wasteful
[17:34] <Laurenceb> not sure if adding battery charging support is a mad idea...
[17:34] <timbobel> i need 12V for a cathode light
[17:34] <Laurenceb> bbl
[17:34] <timbobel> otherwise i have to switch up to 12V
[17:34] <Randomskk> then fair enough. run it off 12
[17:34] <timbobel> that sucks (right?)
[17:34] <Randomskk> personally I'd switch 12 down to 7
[17:34] <Randomskk> and then use the 7 to power the arduino, through its onboard 5v reg
[17:34] <timbobel> yes me too
[17:34] <Randomskk> but you can feed the 12 directly
[17:34] <timbobel> right
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[17:35] <timbobel> why would i do that
[17:35] <timbobel> switch down twice
[17:35] <Randomskk> what?
[17:35] <Randomskk> 12V switch down to 7V, because switching is efficient
[17:36] <Randomskk> then 7V through the regulator to produce the 5V the chip actually needs, because regulating removes noise
[17:36] <Randomskk> switching down to 5V makes the power supply very noisy, while regulating down to 5V from 12 is very inefficient
[17:36] <Randomskk> a combination of the two is best, especially seeing as the regulator is already on the arduino board
[17:36] <timbobel> right
[17:37] <timbobel> so you say buy a 7V reg; sounds right.
[17:37] <Randomskk> what?
[17:37] <Randomskk> as in a 7V switcher?
[17:37] <Randomskk> yes
[17:37] <timbobel> yeah
[17:37] <timbobel> righto
[17:37] <timbobel> other question
[17:37] <timbobel> relay for 700 volt
[17:37] <timbobel> bad idea?
[17:37] <Randomskk> if the relay supports it, fine
[17:37] <timbobel> theyre kinda exepsnvei
[17:38] <timbobel> that's german for expensive
[17:38] <Randomskk> what, relays or switchers? you could design your own switching power supply for not much.
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[17:38] <Randomskk> you could just regulate it down. it would work. if your arduino is not using much power it won't be too bad.
[17:39] <timbobel> it'd be using a watt or so
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[17:41] <timbobel> thnaks btw
[17:41] <Randomskk> a watt?
[17:41] <Randomskk> seriously?
[17:41] <timbobel> right
[17:41] <Randomskk> just the arduino?
[17:41] <Randomskk> (and anything running off its 5v)
[17:42] <timbobel> muhmm right something like that
[17:42] <timbobel> oh wait yeah a tad more maybe
[17:42] <Randomskk> what?
[17:42] <Randomskk> what are you running on it?
[17:43] <timbobel> arduino,zigbee,1-or-2 (inefficient) relays
[17:43] <timbobel> thats it
[17:43] <Randomskk> I guess that could start to add up. eh, it should still work. it'l be a bit warm.
[17:43] <timbobel> what does the arduino itself use up?
[17:45] <Randomskk> sod all
[17:45] <timbobel> btw, when using relays
[17:45] <timbobel> do i need to put like a diode in
[17:45] <timbobel> for how you call that effect
[17:46] <Randomskk> yes. back EMF
[17:47] <timbobel> will that kill the arduino
[17:47] <Randomskk> it is not good
[17:47] <Randomskk> put diodes in
[17:48] <timbobel> are solid state relays cool
[17:48] <timbobel> theyre expensiev for sure
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[18:25] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: youd like this http://vimeo.com/14541093
[18:31] <Randomskk> oh, wow
[18:31] <Randomskk> this is what I dream of having the quadcopter do >_>
[18:32] <Laurenceb> http://vimeo.com/14348524
[18:32] <Laurenceb> ^higher res i think
[18:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=987753
[18:33] <Randomskk> that would also be fantastic with vr goggles
[18:33] <Randomskk> oh my.
[18:33] <Laurenceb> you could come close to that sort of performance with the si4432, but my autopilot board atm has only one ant
[18:34] <Laurenceb> think a two ant v2.0 is called for
[18:34] <Laurenceb> its just a 434mhz link using transceiver ICs aiui
[18:34] <Randomskk> and sending video over it? wow
[18:34] <Randomskk> plane I imagine?
[18:35] <Laurenceb> wing.. theres a thread somewhere
[18:35] <timbobel> with that were they flieing on the vimeo flight
[18:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1279141&page=16 <-many pages, full build etc
[18:35] <Randomskk> the problem I have with forum threads is they rapidly get to so many pages, mostly filled with useless posts, that it's harder and harder to extract meaning
[18:35] <Randomskk> wikis seem like a nice solution.
[18:35] <Laurenceb> aiui the VR goggles use a 2.4GHz link, and theres an extra HD camcorder
[18:36] <Laurenceb> the little cam you can see at the side if for the VR goggles
[18:36] <Randomskk> aah cool
[18:37] <Laurenceb> i have a 1Watt 2.4GHz transmitter somewhere...
[18:37] <timbobel> thats quite a lot
[18:37] <timbobel> howd u get that
[18:37] <Laurenceb> ebay
[18:38] <Randomskk> beautiful landscape
[18:38] <Laurenceb> its about 25x35mm, takes 8v and a few different video inputs
[18:38] <Randomskk> that's massively inspiring to get a quadcopter working
[18:38] <Randomskk> I need to hurry up and finish this stupid lander simulator so I can get back to working on fun stuff
[18:38] <Randomskk> so many projects...
[18:39] <Laurenceb> at the end.. i see a yagi?
[18:40] <Laurenceb> yet his TX only has a whip
[18:40] <Laurenceb> maybe he connects the yagi once its a long way out
[18:40] <Randomskk> might have higher integration time for the telem control than video
[18:40] <timbobel> how does he get the video
[18:40] <Randomskk> or that
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[18:55] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: its possible to add battery charging, but only really practical for a single cell lipo, and low charging current due to usb
[18:55] <Laurenceb> so ill just make it with a 5v output
[18:56] <Laurenceb> so it can power stuff... maybe even an add external charger board if its really needed
[18:59] <Laurenceb> oh hang on... http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1037,P1495
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[19:02] <jshriver> ping :)
[19:03] <Randomskk> anyone used any C++ libraries for vector maths?
[19:03] <jshriver> believe STL has vector type, been years since I've done C+
[19:04] <Randomskk> STL has a vector, but it's for one dimensional storage of any type of element
[19:04] <Randomskk> I need vector arithmetic
[19:05] <jshriver> libmeschach1.2 perhaps
[19:05] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[19:06] <jshriver> http://www.math.uiowa.edu/~dstewart/meschach/
[19:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1037,P111567
[19:06] <Laurenceb> "When the LT3652HV is powered by a solar panel, the input regulation loop is used to maintain the panel at peak output power."
[19:06] <Laurenceb> that is unbelievably epic
[19:09] <Randomskk> oh, nice
[19:10] <jshriver> nice, and relatively inexpensive
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[19:12] <Randomskk> so how does this peak output power thing work?
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> I think it's not peak power
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> it's maintaining input voltage at a constant figure
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> which is close, but not quite the same
[19:18] <Randomskk> god. maybe I should just write my own bloody vector class. this is all a mess.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:22] <Randomskk> and of course there's no agreement on anything
[19:22] <Randomskk> should you use operator overriding to define your cross product?
[19:22] <Randomskk> excellent arguments both sides
[19:22] <Randomskk> wish I had some of ruby's magical syntactical sugar here
[19:23] <jshriver> http://math.nist.gov/mv++/ ?
[19:24] <Randomskk> they could all work. I'm not sure if it's worth even using an external library compared to just writing one at this point
[19:24] <jshriver> http://osl.iu.edu/research/mtl/
[19:24] <Randomskk> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ajw/doc/svl.html too
[19:24] <Randomskk> but also uurgh, later when I do the opengl stuff I'll need 3d vectors there
[19:24] <jshriver> ah cmu :) dream school but didnt make it in lol
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[19:52] Action: SpeedEvil idly wonders where to get a barrel of purish ethanol.
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> (for making a large quantity of aerogerl)
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> I suppose I should start small.
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[21:02] <jcoxon> hey guys - just to show off: http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[21:03] <Randomskk> man, I never seem to find any digital comms when I hook an antenna up
[21:03] <Randomskk> what antenna are you using?
[21:05] <jcoxon> this rubbish antenna
[21:05] <jcoxon> but you can receive 40m on nearly anything really
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[21:05] <Randomskk> how exciting, this guy's computer is an AMD Athlon 3.4GHz 2 Go RAM + ...
[21:06] <Randomskk> :P
[21:06] <jcoxon> tried to find some rtty but have failed
[21:06] <Randomskk> what is it now?
[21:06] <jcoxon> psk
[21:06] <Randomskk> ah cool
[21:06] <jcoxon> just changing freqs
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[21:09] <fsphil> hmm I wonder if it can hear me :)
[21:09] <jcoxon> its actually on my roof
[21:09] <jcoxon> tell me the freq and i'll tune...
[21:09] <fsphil> 40m seems to be my best atm, lemme fire up the radio
[21:09] <Randomskk> I'm gonna have to get a better antenna setup when I get back to cambridge
[21:10] <natrium42> o/
[21:10] <Randomskk> maybe just a long wire out the window
[21:10] <jcoxon> Randomskk, just long wire would do
[21:10] <Randomskk> something for HF would be nice
[21:10] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[21:10] <Randomskk> jcoxon: would be fun to tx, but then I'd need a tuner too
[21:10] <natrium42> hi dr coxon
[21:10] <Randomskk> theoretically my radio does 100w on hf. that would be fun
[21:10] <Randomskk> but not into an untuned long wire
[21:10] <fsphil> Randomskk, an offset centre fed dipole would do the trick -- no tuner needed
[21:10] <jcoxon> natrium42, reading hte logs the is a new challenger to the trans-a
[21:10] <Randomskk> are they easy to make? >.>
[21:11] <fsphil> just two wires, and a 4:1 balun
[21:11] <Randomskk> jcoxon: worst case, we put a filter into the new tracker code that makes it look like they sunk in the atlantic >.>
[21:11] <fsphil> I made mine out of a 20m length of cable, cut at 1/3
[21:11] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:11] <Randomskk> fsphil: and coax feeder?
[21:11] <jcoxon> i'm glad they want to use the system
[21:11] <Randomskk> I think I still have some meh coax around
[21:11] <jcoxon> we designed it open for a reason
[21:12] <fsphil> Randomskk, two wires into the balun, then coax feeder
[21:12] <Randomskk> yea. it'd be nice to see it getting used. the new one is coming along on the back of DanielRichman at the moment, he has written loads already
[21:12] <jcoxon> wow cool
[21:12] Action: Randomskk will write code soon, possibly tomorrow. needs to get somewhere with this shitty c++ first
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[21:57] <Randomskk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txdv_oNq81I that is a serious antenna
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[22:07] <fsphil> !!!
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[22:26] <Wild-Wing> hello
[22:30] <Wild-Wing> how is everyone
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[22:37] <fsphil> asleep :)
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 16 2010