highaltitude.log.20100914

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[05:15] <johnnyfive_> Can someone help with some quick recognition? What are the names of these types of cables: http://www.esawdust.com/published/publicdata/ESAWDUST/attachments/SC/products_pictures/egps-fsa03-bkob-6_enl.jpg
[05:30] <natrium42> 0.1" pitch jumpers
[05:34] <johnnyfive_> morning natrium42
[05:34] <johnnyfive_> and ty
[05:34] <johnnyfive_> ever have an arduino die on you?
[05:35] <natrium42> atmegas are usually pretty resilient
[05:35] <natrium42> but it's possible
[05:36] <johnnyfive_> think it's the USB port. I'm getting it replaced, just wondering how likely that could occur
[05:36] <johnnyfive_> it won't power via usb, and won't deploy now either
[05:36] <johnnyfive_> just curious how likely it's just defective, or if it was me
[05:37] <johnnyfive_> anyway, ignore that, doesn't matter, it's getting replaced
[05:39] <johnnyfive_> I have a more important question to ask, if you're up for it. Relating to the telit gm862
[05:40] <natrium42> sure
[05:40] <johnnyfive_> I'm trying to figure out how I connect it. I see I can buy a standard breakout board from SparkFun, but i'm seeing things about step-ups, etc
[05:41] <natrium42> it's pretty particular about supply voltage
[05:41] <johnnyfive_> from your experience, was there anything you needed between the rx/tx on the gm, and your arduino/mc?
[05:41] <natrium42> 3.4V to 4.2V iirc
[05:41] <natrium42> nope
[05:41] <johnnyfive_> I see, so just the supply voltage is particular
[05:42] <johnnyfive_> did you use the version with gps?
[05:42] <natrium42> yes
[05:42] <natrium42> i also used their USB breakout board
[05:42] <johnnyfive_> is both GSM/GPS communication done through the same rx/tx?
[05:42] <johnnyfive_> "their". Sparkfun?
[05:42] <natrium42> it did have a LDO to convert voltage
[05:42] <natrium42> yeah
[05:42] <natrium42> but you can roll your own
[05:43] <johnnyfive_> Not sure if i'm smart enough to do that yet
[05:45] <johnnyfive_> thanks for the info
[05:46] <natrium42> oh, also
[05:46] <natrium42> is your arduino 3.3V or 5V?
[05:47] <johnnyfive_> eh i have a netduino actually
[05:47] <johnnyfive_> it outputs power at 3.3v
[05:47] <natrium42> good
[05:47] <natrium42> because the gm862 can't handle 5V logic inputs for some reason...
[05:47] <johnnyfive_> oh wait, I guess it'll do either?
[05:47] <johnnyfive_> output: 5 VDC and 3.3 VDC regulated
[05:48] <johnnyfive_> I see. I'll keep that in mind
[05:54] <natrium42> for voltage regulator, you could use http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LM1085IT-ADJ-ND
[05:54] <natrium42> it's pretty easy to use
[05:54] <johnnyfive_> cause I don't need the USB interface on the breakout board
[05:54] <johnnyfive_> just have no clue how/where to put that yet :P
[06:16] <natrium42> nn
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[06:40] <Darkside> juxta: around?
[06:40] <juxta> hey Darkside
[06:40] <juxta> just got home
[06:41] <Darkside> cool
[06:41] <Darkside> are you going to the event on sunday?
[06:42] <Darkside> i forget what htey were calling it
[06:42] <Darkside> basically the VK5 expo thing on at belair
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[06:57] <juxta> hey Darkside
[06:57] <juxta> i didn't know anything was on
[06:58] <juxta> what time is it?
[07:04] <Darkside> all day i think
[07:04] <Darkside> ill see if i can find more info about it
[07:05] <Darkside> http://www.qsl.net/vk5bar/Symposium/Symposium%20flyer.htm
[07:05] <Darkside> thats it
[07:05] <Darkside> Students : Free entry with Student ID Card. :D
[07:06] <Darkside> the homebrew techniques are what i' most interested in
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[07:45] <m1x10> good morning utc+3,2,1
[07:53] <m1x10> I was wondering how the RTC chips know the current time/date
[07:53] <m1x10> eg DS1307 RTC
[07:54] <m1x10> If I boot it right now, how is possible to calculate my current time/date ?
[08:21] <Darkside> good question
[08:21] <Darkside> im thinking of adding one of those to my uni project
[08:21] <Darkside> atm accurate timing isn't that much of an issue
[08:22] <Darkside> but later on it will be
[08:22] <m1x10> Darkside, btw I was playing an online game last night and was a guy with your nick. Was it u ? :P
[08:22] <Darkside> nope
[08:22] <m1x10> Here take a look at this arduino clock.
[08:22] <m1x10> http://www.roguerobotics.com/products/electronics/ledhead
[08:22] <Darkside> i dont play games much
[08:22] <m1x10> clone*
[08:23] <Darkside> Track status of DS 1307 from Geneva (GVA) to Ajaccio (AJA)
[08:23] <Darkside> yerp
[08:24] <m1x10> its a good clone
[08:24] <m1x10> doesnt have the ftdi chip embedded
[08:24] <m1x10> which just consumes
[08:24] <m1x10> have 1 extra uart
[08:26] <m1x10> I want to compare the controllers power consume
[08:26] <m1x10> atmega328p with Atmel ATmega644P (pico-power)
[08:27] <m1x10> I guess that pico power is a good start
[08:32] <fsphil> off topic link, automated sailing boat launched a few days ago still going: http://www.microtransat.org/tracking.php
[08:35] Nick change: Tygrys^ -> Tiger^
[08:48] <m1x10> fsphil, I dont see any boat !
[08:49] <fsphil> if you can see the map, the yellow dots are where it was
[08:49] <fsphil> their tracker is not as well polished as the ukhas one :)
[08:50] <m1x10> :p
[08:50] <fsphil> you can see the boat itself here: http://www.microtransat.org/aber_boat.php
[08:50] <m1x10> ah, I needed to zoom in a bit so the yellow dots appear
[08:51] <m1x10> Ultrasonic wind sensor
[08:51] <m1x10> cool
[08:51] <fsphil> it's suppose to be a race, but only the welsh team launched
[09:10] <jonsowman> morning all
[09:16] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php
[09:16] <m1x10> rocket :)
[09:16] <m1x10> hi jonsowman
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[09:17] <fsphil> morning
[09:17] <m1x10> fsphil
[09:17] <m1x10> can u answer my question above?
[09:17] <m1x10> for RTC chips
[09:18] <fsphil> ah man they're not launching their big rocket until next year
[09:18] <fsphil> you have to set them
[09:19] <m1x10> ?
[09:19] <m1x10> set them?
[09:19] <m1x10> an initial time?
[09:20] <fsphil> yep
[09:20] <m1x10> and when you remove power its loosing the time
[09:20] <m1x10> and u have to reinitialize in next boot?
[09:20] <fsphil> it should have a battery backup
[09:21] <m1x10> hm
[09:21] <fsphil> the IC will have pins for a little battery, same as the GPS chips
[09:21] <m1x10> ok
[09:21] <fsphil> or you could get a module with the battery and all on the board
[09:22] <m1x10> I have spotted this arduino clone
[09:22] <m1x10> http://www.roguerobotics.com/products/electronics/ledhead
[09:22] <m1x10> comes with an RTC
[09:22] <fsphil> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=99
[09:22] <m1x10> and i was wondering how it gets its first ime
[09:22] <m1x10> time*
[09:23] <fsphil> it's probably set in the factory
[09:23] <fsphil> but best to set it yourself from an accurate time source, like gps
[09:23] <m1x10> yeah
[09:23] <m1x10> gps is far accurate
[09:24] <fsphil> I can't see the board very clearly, but if it has a battery on it then it's likely for the rtc
[09:24] <fsphil> if no battery, then it'll probably forget the time when it looses power
[09:24] <m1x10> I plan to get this clone for some testing but i dont like the builtin RTC. I will ask him if he got plans in removing it. :)
[09:25] <fsphil> an rtc could be useful
[09:25] <m1x10> for habing we got gps :)
[09:26] <fsphil> if it has a lock ;)
[09:26] <m1x10> heh
[09:53] <Laurenceb> imnot convinced by those Cr1216 holders
[09:53] <Laurenceb> does the battery supply work ok?
[10:17] <m1x10> is there any regulator that takes 5v and outputs exactly 3v ?
[10:17] <m1x10> or do i have to do it with potential divider?
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> many.
[10:18] <m1x10> can u send me the link of the most common?
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> no
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> There is no particular most common one
[10:19] <m1x10> ok
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> Actually.
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=296-17546-6-ND
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> is the one digikey have most stock of.
[10:20] <m1x10> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=595
[10:20] <m1x10> is this good?
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> should be fine
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> If you're not soldering it to a PCB, a bigger reg might be easier to connect to a heatsink
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> what current do you need
[10:21] <m1x10> <150mA
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> Also - 3.3 is more common than 3
[10:21] <m1x10> its for a gas sensor that needs 3v to work
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:22] <m1x10> and ~120mA
[11:18] <Laurenceb> Ti seemto make the best LDOs
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[11:28] <fsphil> the boat I mentioned earlier has broke, they're not getting telemetry from the computer. but the spot is still working :)
[11:29] <russss> I wondered how they prevent it from capsizing
[11:32] <fsphil> maybe they didn't -- the weather was pretty bad last night
[12:08] <Laurenceb> http://www.roithner-laser.com/pricelist.pdf
[12:09] <Laurenceb> ^AS081Q15000W, 780..830 nm, 15000 W qcw, 30 x 14 x 10 mm³ 29.700,00 38.107,18
[12:09] <Laurenceb> do want
[12:10] <Laurenceb> hmm thatd actually be rather hardtopower
[12:11] <Laurenceb> would need some generators on the laser blaster pickup truck
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> That's reallynot bad.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> I want some nice concentrated solar panels to go with that.
[12:22] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:22] <Laurenceb> lots of other insanely cool stuff on there
[12:23] <Laurenceb> like the thermal camera
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[13:58] <griffonbot> @nearsys: The CHDK article is now at N&V. I'll have to write a third installment after I try out the uBASIC debugger. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/24477461527]
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[14:16] <Stratisphere> hey all
[14:16] <Stratisphere> how can I get on the mailing list?
[14:16] <Stratisphere> i'm the network manager at a high school and we're looking to doing a HAB launch soon... just doing as much research as I can :)
[14:17] <Randomskk> you can just join - it's a normal google group
[14:17] <Stratisphere> cool, name/url?
[14:17] <Randomskk> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[14:18] <Stratisphere> ah, just found it on the wiki as you posted it lol
[14:18] <Stratisphere> thank you!
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[14:36] <johnnyfive_> morning!
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[14:56] <fsphil> good$(TIMEOFDAY)!
[14:56] <natrium42> hello dr. fsphil
[14:58] <jshriver> fsphil lol
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[15:20] <philihp> w00t, scored a SPOT GPS Messenger for $50!
[15:20] <natrium42> SPOT 1 or SPOT2?
[15:20] <m1x10> In 4 days: Prodigy Live here in Thessalonike, GR. 40Euro!
[15:20] <m1x10> after 10 years!
[15:21] <philihp> the older one
[15:21] <natrium42> ah, cool
[15:21] <philihp> is there a functional difference?
[15:21] <natrium42> still need to pay for the plan though
[15:21] <natrium42> the newer one has better GPS module
[15:21] <philihp> yeah... i'll pay for it once i find the balloon and some helium
[15:21] <natrium42> i didn't have a chance to test it at altitude yet, though
[15:22] <natrium42> philihp, http://natrium42.com/projects/spot/
[15:22] <natrium42> might interest you
[15:22] <philihp> IT DOES
[15:22] <philihp> :D :D
[15:22] <natrium42> :)
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[15:25] <philihp> natrium42, this information is amazing.
[15:26] <natrium42> i am glad you like it :)
[15:28] <natrium42> oh, SPOT2 has another button, so there should be another message type
[15:28] <natrium42> but i didn't even open it up yet
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[16:46] <m1x10> might be on interest: http://www.surfingsatellites.org/surfingsatellites.aspx?Page=HomePage
[16:48] <fsphil> woo! I got sstv from the iss :D
[16:48] <russss> nice
[16:48] <m1x10> lol
[16:49] <natrium42> pics or it didn't happen
[16:49] <fsphil> uploading :)
[16:52] <m1x10> haha
[16:52] <m1x10> natrium42 lol
[16:52] <m1x10> hahahaha
[16:52] <m1x10> we say this in my company
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[16:52] <m1x10> so cool
[16:53] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/iss/
[16:53] Action: natrium42 is from the internet
[16:53] <natrium42> fsphil, awesome!
[16:53] <m1x10> yeah
[16:54] <russss> wait a minute
[16:54] <russss> there's not a shuttle up there at the moment :P
[16:54] <fsphil> haha, I don't think they're from a webcam
[16:54] <russss> olde
[16:55] <fsphil> they should put a webcam up there
[16:57] <russss> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/isslivestream.asx
[16:57] <russss> :)
[16:57] <russss> mplayer mplayer mms://a1709.l1856953708.c18569.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/1709/18569/v0001/reflector:5370 works
[16:58] <russss> oops
[16:58] <russss> only one mplayer
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[16:59] <m1x10> russss
[17:00] <m1x10> best link ever
[17:00] <russss> I find it quite relaxing
[17:01] <m1x10> u can grab a picture of your country when u know it passes from above
[17:01] <johnnyfive|work> no way.. there's a live stream of the ISS?
[17:02] <Randomskk> neither work for me :(
[17:02] <russss> yeah
[17:02] <russss> it's the view out of the window
[17:02] <m1x10> russss is this all day?
[17:02] <m1x10> or just now?
[17:02] <russss> I think they sometimes cut to mission control when it goes into night
[17:02] <m1x10> i think iam hearing someone talking
[17:03] <m1x10> very very background
[17:03] <Randomskk> vlc also fails, connection refused / failed to open a connection (tcp)
[17:03] <Randomskk> :(
[17:03] <m1x10> :(
[17:03] <m1x10> linux?
[17:04] <Randomskk> yes.
[17:04] <m1x10> lol they cut it
[17:04] <russss> oh, LOS.
[17:05] <m1x10> its becauce it tracked a ufo. not to show in public. lol.
[17:05] <m1x10> Voice :)
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[17:06] <russss> I dunno if that video goes via TDRSS or whether it's only when it's in ground station range
[17:07] <m1x10> heh, solar panels rule up there
[17:07] <m1x10> i wonder why they dont build a nuclear spaceship...
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[17:08] <russss> well, deep-space probes are nuclear-powered
[17:08] <m1x10> they have already nuclear subs
[17:08] <russss> but RTGs, not conventional fission
[17:09] <russss> people don't like people launching radioactive material though
[17:09] <Randomskk> I don't see why. beats keeping it on earth if nothing else
[17:10] <m1x10> hehe
[17:10] <m1x10> bravo charile !
[17:10] <m1x10> charlie !
[17:11] <russss> but also this is relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)
[17:33] <johnnyfive|work> russss, ty for that link. It's amazing.
[17:33] <johnnyfive|work> Now I have to figure out how to set that as my desktop...
[17:33] <russss> heh
[17:33] <m1x10> haha
[17:34] <johnnyfive|work> anyone know of a way to do that?
[17:35] <m1x10> i already search..
[17:36] <johnnyfive|work> yea I did too, can't find it
[17:37] <fsphil> annoyingly doesn't work here
[17:37] <russss> it's in shadow at the moment
[17:37] <m1x10> brb
[17:37] <russss> also they've lost signal
[17:41] <fsphil> unknown ASF streaming type -- bah, microsoft again
[17:42] <johnnyfive|work> nice ;) I got it on my desktop
[17:42] <johnnyfive|work> using vlc
[17:43] <russss> apparently they have the facility to downlink up to 4 channels of video using the Ku-band TDRSS link. Which doesn't explain why they have LOS
[17:43] <russss> maybe they need more bandwidth on TDRSS for something else
[17:44] <Randomskk> yay microwaves
[17:45] <russss> "While NASA uses the (TDRSS) satellites to communicate with the space shuttle and international space station, most of their bandwidth is devoted to the Pentagon"
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[18:02] <johnnyfive|work> anyone have advice on a good Canon camera for high altitude? Preferably wider lense?
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[18:11] <m1x10> are they sleep now?
[18:12] <johnnyfive|work> lol no idea. Not hearing any chatter. Maybe
[18:17] <johnnyfive|work> that chicks hair is crazy
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[18:17] <m1x10> hahahah
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[18:20] <m1x10> did u do the dekstop thing?
[18:21] <johnnyfive|work> yes
[18:21] <m1x10> how?
[18:21] <johnnyfive|work> VLC
[18:21] <johnnyfive|work> it has an option to run the current video as your desktop
[18:21] <m1x10> hmm
[18:21] <m1x10> let me try
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[18:26] <m1x10> what option did u used?
[18:30] <johnnyfive|work> i'm on windows
[18:30] <m1x10> y me too
[18:30] <johnnyfive|work> so video >> direct3d desktop mode worked
[18:30] <johnnyfive|work> couldn't get the directx one to do anything
[18:30] <m1x10> that doesnt work on me
[18:30] <m1x10> win7
[18:31] <m1x10> the chick again !
[18:31] <johnnyfive|work> i'm on vista
[18:31] <johnnyfive|work> i'll try again when i'm at home ;P
[18:31] <johnnyfive|work> this is fascinating........
[18:31] <johnnyfive|work> I can't stop staring
[18:32] <m1x10> :p
[18:32] <m1x10> russian speak!
[18:32] <m1x10> priviet :)
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[18:35] <m1x10> cool that logo has the greek Sigma letter £ !
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[18:43] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
[18:49] <Randomskk> hi Laurenceb
[18:49] <Laurenceb> yo, im designing a si4432 dongle
[18:50] <Laurenceb> what do you think of having an ftdi usb-spi interface?
[18:50] <Laurenceb> it looks like linux support would be a moderate pita
[18:50] <Laurenceb> but windows is trivial
[18:50] <Randomskk> in what sense? having one onboard the dongle?
[18:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:50] <Randomskk> just some pins that are SPI, and you can drive over USB?
[18:50] <Laurenceb> sma on one end, usb on the other
[18:50] <Randomskk> SPI or SMA
[18:50] <Laurenceb> about 40mmx15mm for 434mhz comms
[18:51] <Laurenceb> sma
[18:51] <Laurenceb> the si4432 sits on an spi bus
[18:51] <Randomskk> right, so you're making a radio interface dongle and asking if having SPI pins broken out would be useful?
[18:51] <Laurenceb> nope
[18:51] <Laurenceb> asking if windows only is useful
[18:51] <Randomskk> oh, as in windows only support for the dongle?
[18:52] <Laurenceb> as the ftdi drivers for spi are windows only and the linux library is poorly documented
[18:52] <Laurenceb> but appears to support the spi mode badly
[18:52] <Randomskk> why'd linux support be hard? libftdi seems trivial; making a python program that lets you use some of the FTDI's pins for SPI is on my task list
[18:52] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:52] <Randomskk> though admittedly my plan was to bitbang as speed wasn't a massive concern
[18:52] <johnnyfive|work> what... is.. he.. saying...
[18:52] <Randomskk> (I need a programmer for the onboard flash on my FPGA)
[18:52] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of using the actual spi hardware
[18:52] <Laurenceb> on the ftdi
[18:52] <Randomskk> oh, right.
[18:52] <Randomskk> uhm
[18:52] <Randomskk> personally I like linux support seeing as I run linux and all that
[18:52] <Laurenceb> its supported, but the speed and polarity setup isnt
[18:52] <Randomskk> I don't know how hard it'd be to get SPI working under linux
[18:53] <Laurenceb> its just stuck in the default mode
[18:53] <Randomskk> the alternatives are probably worse though
[18:53] <Laurenceb> i heard some people have got it to work for avr programming
[18:53] <Randomskk> if you can see what the windows one sends, or wireshark the packets, you could probably libusb it if nothing else
[18:53] <Randomskk> neat.
[18:53] <Laurenceb> but havent found any code online
[18:53] <Laurenceb> - got the hardware spi talking to avrdude
[18:53] <Laurenceb> no code posted tho :(
[18:54] <Laurenceb> windows is trivial, so if i did this the code would probably be windows only at least to start with
[18:54] <Randomskk> that would be better than nothing - what're the alternatives though? an mcu with a usb interface and doing the spi translation on the mcu?
[18:54] <Laurenceb> http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/SoftwareExamples/MPSSE/FTCSPI.htm
[18:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:54] <Randomskk> stm32 could DMA from USB to SPI but it would be a lot more work, expense and board space
[18:55] <Laurenceb> more of a pain
[18:55] <Randomskk> for essentially zero gain
[18:55] <Laurenceb> FTDI only publish the windows DLL
[18:55] <Randomskk> :/
[18:55] <Laurenceb> libftdi just has an spi mode
[18:55] <Laurenceb> and you can pass it bytes
[18:56] <Randomskk> but no way to set it up?
[18:56] <Laurenceb> theres no setup documented but some people have managed to configure the speed and polarity apparently
[18:56] <Randomskk> hmm
[18:56] <Laurenceb> its just left in the default settings
[18:56] <Randomskk> it's the kind of thing that's solvable in software
[18:56] <Laurenceb> whatever they are
[18:56] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:56] <Randomskk> I think go for windows only and hope libftdi gets better
[18:56] <Randomskk> and/or try to see how the avr people did it
[18:56] <Laurenceb> yes - if i just wrote some quick code in windows to test the hardware
[18:57] <Laurenceb> then moved onto solving the libftdi suport issue
[18:57] <Laurenceb> board should be here next week btw
[18:57] <Laurenceb> (10 x dactyl board)
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> Woo.
[18:58] <Laurenceb> you can have a few as can a limited number of people - whoevers interested :P
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> This is that autopiloty thingy?
[18:58] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> What's the final BOM looking like?
[18:59] <Laurenceb> £120 or so
[18:59] <Laurenceb> for everything - mass about 30grams if you populated it all
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Insane.
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:01] <Laurenceb> you could save a bit by leaving out the pitot sensor and a few other bits
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> This is GPS+IMU+servo driver +2.4G RF
[19:02] <Laurenceb> 434mhz RF
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:02] <Laurenceb> + pitot +ESC + uSD + RS485
[19:03] <Laurenceb> lots of functionality :P
[19:04] <Laurenceb> for v2 i might add dual antenni support
[19:04] <Laurenceb> the si4432 allows two ants with automatic switching
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> Which would bre really handy for a manoevering model
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> two bidirectional
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> ?
[19:05] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:05] <Laurenceb> hmm i could add that to the dongle then
[19:07] <Laurenceb> but two times sma is big
[19:08] <Laurenceb> not sure how useful this is on the ground end
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> polarisation?
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[19:08] <Laurenceb> two ants on the aircarft would
[19:09] <Laurenceb> oh hang on
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[19:09] <Laurenceb> yeah - if you only want one ant on the aircraft you could solve polarization issues with two on the ground
[19:10] <Randomskk> did you conclude anything w.r.t. legality of flying the thing?
[19:10] <Randomskk> with respect to the radio stuff, that is
[19:10] <Laurenceb> well... cusf fly similar kit
[19:11] <Randomskk> :x
[19:11] <Laurenceb> ill check it over well with my icom scanner at the very least
[19:11] <Laurenceb> ok this is interesting - the two antenni 2.4G systems
[19:11] <Laurenceb> they solve the end lobe problem
[19:11] <Laurenceb> but not polarization?
[19:12] Action: Laurenceb is confused
[19:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.f1hobbies.com/shop.php?id=1153&level=
[19:13] <Laurenceb> monopole on gnd -> two ants on plane
[19:13] <Laurenceb> surely there are attitude configurations where you could still get 0 signal through - theoretically
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> umm
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> If you have - say - dipoles on plane
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> then you will get a combined null when you pass through the normal of the plane the two dipoles describe
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> That is - dipoles on the vehicle - tilted at 90 degrees from each other
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> I think you need three to guarantee reception.
[19:19] Action: SpeedEvil ponders hairy balls.
[19:23] <Laurenceb> its not a dipole
[19:23] <Laurenceb> its two ants at 90degrees
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:23] <Laurenceb> then you pick the one with best SNR
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> But you get null signal at some point with any antenna
[19:24] <Laurenceb> ok - looked at it on paper and you need a total of 4 ants in the entire system
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> A dipole just makes it clear
[19:24] <Laurenceb> to get coverage over all attitude configurations
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[19:24] <SpeedEvil> As the null signal area is a nice circle
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> This does not apply if you point the antennas.
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Of course.
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> But for unpointed ones that move with the airframe, you can't avoid double nulls.
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> Unless you do it programatically by avoiding those attitudes
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[19:33] <SpeedEvil> It feels like there should be a fundamental proof why the above is true.
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> But I can't think of it. - trye for any antenna design
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[19:46] <Laurenceb> guess itd be silly not to add support for dual ants on the dongle
[19:46] <Laurenceb> just makes the connectors take up twice the space
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[19:46] <SpeedEvil> And dongle doesn't have to be small
[19:47] <Laurenceb> maybe end launch SMA then top launch smd SMA if you want to use the second channel
[19:47] <Laurenceb> 15mm max width would be good
[19:47] <Laurenceb> and short so its not snapped by accident
[19:47] <Laurenceb> bbl
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> Or cabled
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[20:10] Action: jcoxon waits for his fsa03 to get a lock
[20:11] <jcoxon> 1 sat at least
[20:14] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[21:22] <fsphil> all working jcoxon?
[21:22] <jcoxon> only 1 sat still but its indoors
[21:23] <jcoxon> i'll leave it be
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[21:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.spacex.com/updates.php
[21:33] <Laurenceb> ^sweet
[21:35] <Laurenceb> Once we have proven our ability to control reentry accurately, we intend to add deployable landing gear and leverage the thrusters in order to land on land in the future.
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[21:38] <timbobel> hello everyone
[21:40] <fsphil> hiya timbobel
[21:40] <timbobel> hiya
[21:41] <timbobel> who has a nim2 lieing around
[21:41] <jcoxon> oooo 2 sats
[21:41] <timbobel> or/and, what is a good way to make a floater
[21:41] <fsphil> um
[21:42] <jcoxon> i can answer the second q
[21:42] <timbobel> please do
[21:42] <fsphil> nooo
[21:42] <fsphil> lol
[21:42] <jcoxon> you make a small vent in the base and launch to coincide with sunset
[21:42] <timbobel> "small vent in the base"
[21:42] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:42] <timbobel> errr
[21:42] <jcoxon> well instead of tying off the balloon
[21:43] <jcoxon> you put in a stopper with a very small hole
[21:43] <jcoxon> 1.5mm diameter
[21:43] <timbobel> allright
[21:43] <timbobel> but then you cant regulate alt
[21:43] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:44] <jcoxon> but it will float
[21:44] <timbobel> well yeah
[21:44] <jcoxon> if you want to control the altitue you'll need to vent helium
[21:44] <jcoxon> and also drop ballast
[21:44] <timbobel> vent helium should be enough right
[21:44] <jcoxon> well that 'll only slow your ascent rate
[21:45] <jcoxon> if you vent too much you'll start to descend
[21:45] <timbobel> there'd be an equilibrium right
[21:45] <jcoxon> a very fine equilibirum
[21:46] <timbobel> true
[21:46] <timbobel> your airpump idea was great too by the way
[21:47] <jcoxon> airpump?
[21:49] <timbobel> you had a pump right
[21:49] <timbobel> or not
[21:50] <jcoxon> yeah but for liquid ballast
[21:50] <jcoxon> not air
[21:53] <timbobel> oh right]
[21:56] <timbobel> what should i do with a "gyro sensor"
[21:56] <timbobel> i dont get it
[21:56] <jcoxon> my floater flights have been a test for a future zero pressure balloon system
[21:57] <timbobel> i know, and there is nothing cooler than that
[21:57] <jcoxon> so it sort of doesn't make sense - having a ballast pump on a latex floater
[21:57] <jcoxon> as you stop it floating rather then prolong it
[22:01] <timbobel> does someone know a good compass module
[22:02] <jcoxon> i've got this: http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R117-COMPASS.html
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[22:03] <timbobel> 1000hz refreshrate?
[22:03] <jcoxon> the issue with compass modules are that if they aren't horizontal they aren't that accurate
[22:03] <timbobel> that's allright
[22:06] <jcoxon> timbobel, or this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7915
[22:06] <timbobel> HMC6352 haha
[22:06] <timbobel> i was just checking it on farnell
[22:06] <jcoxon> which is newer
[22:06] <timbobel> 20hz sucks though
[22:07] <timbobel> i'd like to try to counteract the rotation of the whole thing
[22:07] <timbobel> and generally playing around with it
[22:08] <Randomskk> so get a three axis magno and accelerometer to compensate
[22:08] <Randomskk> :P
[22:08] <Randomskk> then you can get a bearing in any attitude. it starts to lose its meaning, though
[22:10] <timbobel> could be nice for some things, i have a fisheye-camera lieing here
[22:10] <timbobel> could point it downward but then rotation'd be uncool
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[22:24] <fsphil> night all
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[22:45] <Dan-K2VOL> Evening all
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[22:56] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
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[23:03] <Dan-K2VOL> Greetings all, Dan from SNOX here, anyone around?
[23:04] <Randomskk> most people here are in the UK (now 00:04) so activity is a bit low.
[23:04] <Randomskk> some people are still here though
[23:04] <Randomskk> hi
[23:04] <Dan-K2VOL> hey there
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes, I forget the time diff sometimes
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[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> anyway, who all is involved in the telemetry tracking network these days?
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> few people here.
[23:06] <LazyLeopard> Not been much to track of late...
[23:06] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice, I'm getting a new group in Louisville, KY interested in a trans-atlantic attempt
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> The network is more UK only.
[23:07] <Dan-K2VOL> the spacenear.us one?
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Though it's likely to be able in principle to pick up balloons at high altitude up to 450Km or more away
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Transmitting on 433
[23:07] <Dan-K2VOL> receiving with dl-fldigi?
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:08] <LazyLeopard> No reason why dl-fldigi shouldn't be used on other frequencies and with other modes, though.
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[23:09] <LazyLeopard> ...but folks' receiving kit may be geared to 70cms because that's what's used over here.
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[23:11] Action: LazyLeopard was using dl-fldigi to listen in on PSK-31 and the like this evening.
[23:11] <LazyLeopard> ...in "offline" mode. ;)
[23:11] <LazyLeopard> ...on 40, 30 and 20 metres.
[23:13] <LazyLeopard> I guess it could even do CW, particularly if the CW's machine-generated.
[23:14] <Randomskk> I hear fldigi's CW modem is not great
[23:16] <LazyLeopard> Not tried it, but CW can be pretty variable, especially if there's a human keying it, so I wouldn't be surprised to find it was a mite less reliable than other modes.
[23:18] <LazyLeopard> There have been US and Australian groups using spacenear.us too...
[23:18] <LazyLeopard> Anyway, time to sleep. G'night.
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 15 2010