highaltitude.log.20100910

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[03:52] <Darkside> argarghehfhghghghghghghgg
[03:52] <Darkside> my timing has screwed up on my xmega..
[03:52] <Darkside> not happy :(
[04:39] <Darkside> had to go back to using _delay_ms()'s
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[05:15] <m1x10> morning all
[05:15] <m1x10> yesterday i managed to broke the fsa03 helical antenna :(
[05:15] <m1x10> Im planning to buy a new gps
[05:15] <m1x10> any ideas?
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[07:53] <m1x10> who happens to have an fsa03 handy? I want to compare something with mine.
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[08:47] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
[08:51] <m1x10> Laurenceb, do u happen to have the fsa03 gps ?
[08:55] <Laurenceb> yes
[08:55] <m1x10> oh
[08:55] <m1x10> can u help me please?
[08:55] <Laurenceb> maybe
[08:55] <m1x10> well
[08:55] <m1x10> take a look here
[08:55] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/113477
[08:56] <Laurenceb> eeek
[08:56] <m1x10> at right is my fsa
[08:56] <m1x10> your module looks exactly as the one at the left?
[08:56] <Laurenceb> looks like it encountered a tesla coil
[08:56] <Laurenceb> yes
[08:56] <m1x10> well
[08:57] <Laurenceb> id return it
[08:57] <m1x10> now its too late
[08:57] <m1x10> I have done my own damage on it
[08:57] <Laurenceb> what did you take the photos with?
[08:57] <Laurenceb> ah
[08:57] <Laurenceb> it could be they screwed up the soldering
[08:57] <m1x10> but looking closer I spotted those 2 things that wasnt by me
[08:57] <Laurenceb> id try resoldering the ant
[08:58] <m1x10> i have the esawdust module
[08:58] <m1x10> breakout i mean
[09:00] <m1x10> i took it from him
[09:00] <m1x10> not just the gps
[09:00] <m1x10> do u have that glue over there?
[09:00] <Laurenceb> nope
[09:00] <m1x10> on your gps
[09:00] <m1x10> ok
[09:00] <m1x10> the solder
[09:00] <m1x10> is exactly like that?
[09:00] <Laurenceb> like the photo yes
[09:00] <m1x10> ok
[09:00] <m1x10> I should have spotted those details earlier
[09:00] <m1x10> now ive my own damage and cannot return it
[09:00] <m1x10> I took this pics with a microscope
[09:00] <Laurenceb> neat
[09:00] <m1x10> dino-lite.com
[09:00] <m1x10> seems that esawdust.com did something to this module
[09:00] <m1x10> and sold it like normal one
[09:01] <m1x10> I wanted to be sure that fsa03 looks exactly like at the photo
[09:01] <m1x10> Now I will mail him
[09:02] <m1x10> ask explanation about the mystery glue and the missing solder
[09:02] <m1x10> thanks for your time
[09:03] <Laurenceb> its probably solder flux
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[09:03] <Laurenceb> not glue
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[09:03] <m1x10> solder fux? what its use over there?
[09:07] <Laurenceb> it came from the dodgy soldering on the ant
[09:07] <m1x10> http://www.esawdust.com/product/egps-fsa03-bkob/
[09:07] <m1x10> Laurenceb, thats what i have
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[09:15] <Laurenceb> its a very good gps if it works
[09:16] <m1x10> i know
[09:17] <m1x10> thats why i will buy the same again
[09:17] <m1x10> but first I need some explanation
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[09:22] <Laurenceb> yeah email and complain
[09:23] <m1x10> Now I start to believe that my antenna was fragile because of the mass missing solder
[09:24] <m1x10> Seems like some kind of processing was done there..
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[09:28] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[10:08] <m1x10> hi fsphil, do u have the fsa03 breakout from esawdust?
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[11:29] <Northgate> hello
[11:29] <m1x10> hi
[11:30] <Northgate> I am in need of some advice
[11:30] <m1x10> then you got to ask :)
[11:31] <Northgate> We have CAA permission to launch today from Ipswich but im uncertain wether or not to launch as the predictor is telling me its going to get wet on landing! lol
[11:32] <Northgate> can someone help me calculations?
[11:32] <m1x10> predictor is very accurate
[11:32] <m1x10> which one did u use?
[11:32] <m1x10> post a link
[11:32] <Northgate> CUSF Landing Predictor 2.0
[11:33] <m1x10> http://hexoc.com/hab/predict/predict/
[11:33] <m1x10> I use this one
[11:33] <Northgate> yeah thats the one i use
[11:33] <m1x10> give me your data
[11:33] <m1x10> lat/long etc
[11:33] <Northgate> Lat - 52.0738
[11:33] <Northgate> Lon - 1.1812
[11:34] <Northgate> Ascent - 8
[11:34] <Northgate> Descent - 41
[11:34] <Northgate> Burst - 30000 m
[11:35] <Northgate> im not sure my accent and descent are correct :(
[11:35] <m1x10> Descent 41?
[11:35] <m1x10> bomb?
[11:35] <m1x10> :p
[11:35] <m1x10> are u using a parachute?
[11:35] <Northgate> lol
[11:36] <Northgate> yeah
[11:36] <m1x10> post a link
[11:37] <Northgate> we made the parachute ourselves
[11:37] <fsphil> m1x10, nope - no breakout
[11:38] <m1x10> whats you payload weight and balloon weight?
[11:38] <m1x10> fsphil, ok.
[11:38] <Northgate> payload is 1900g
[11:38] <m1x10> nearly 2kilos lol
[11:38] <m1x10> balloon?
[11:38] <fsphil> Northgate, if you copy and paste the url here we can see all the prediction values.. the url should have a long code in it
[11:39] <Northgate> 100g ballon
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> 8m/s is a very fast ascent
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> ok - you're definately not getting that.
[11:39] <Randomskk> Northgate: check out the calculator http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[11:39] <m1x10> fsphil he is using an descent of 41m/s
[11:39] <Randomskk> helps you guess ascent and descent rates
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> At least and not bursting at 30km
[11:39] <m1x10> balloon 100g or 1000g?
[11:41] <Northgate> just checking balloon weight
[11:41] <m1x10> you are going to land on water for sure
[11:42] <Northgate> ok balloon weight 350g
[11:42] <fsphil> yep, just found the prediction
[11:43] <m1x10> u cannot reach 30km with 350g balloon and payload 2kilos
[11:43] <m1x10> impossible
[11:43] <fsphil> the ascent rate is a bit high
[11:43] <Randomskk> pimping the calculator again http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[11:43] <m1x10> yea that should help
[11:43] <fsphil> yes, calculator is good. use the calculator :)
[11:43] <Randomskk> notably, 1900g payload and 350g ballon says you can't do 30km, no chance
[11:44] <fsphil> but from your position, I doubt you'll get a hard landing today
[11:44] <m1x10> yeah
[11:44] <fsphil> unless you manage to get it to hollant
[11:44] <fsphil> holland
[11:44] <m1x10> heh
[11:44] <m1x10> timbomel will steal it then
[11:44] <fsphil> he could get his boat, recover it
[11:45] <Randomskk> equally, with 1900 payload, 350 balloon and 8m/s ascent you burst at 8.6km
[11:46] <Northgate> ok
[11:46] <Randomskk> (after 15 minutes of flight, niice)
[11:46] <Randomskk> your payload is really really heavy and your balloon is really really light
[11:46] <Randomskk> you probably want to consider using a much lighter payload or a much heavier balloon
[11:47] <m1x10> Northgate to give you a clean answer, if u wanna reach 30km use a 1000g.
[11:48] <m1x10> nothing more nothing less
[11:48] <Randomskk> well you could use more or less depending on payload and time taken
[11:48] <fsphil> more would be fine too
[11:48] <m1x10> and my opinion is to reduce somehow the payload weight
[11:48] <m1x10> 2kg is extreme
[11:49] <m1x10> better not launch today
[11:49] <Randomskk> aww, the calculator won't let me input my body mass. it's all "5kg is the limit!"
[11:49] <Randomskk> why did I program that in >.>
[11:49] <Northgate> well i can halve it to 1kg by losing the extra padding
[11:49] <Randomskk> 1kg of padding?
[11:49] <Northgate> first launch = overkill
[11:49] <Northgate> :)
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[11:50] <SpeedEvil> do you have a pic of the payload?
[11:50] <m1x10> Northgate better not launch today, many things will go wrong.
[11:50] <Randomskk> well you never know
[11:50] <Randomskk> but it'l probably get wet
[11:50] <m1x10> :)
[11:50] <m1x10> he wont manage to get nice pics.
[11:51] <m1x10> Randomskk do u happen to have the fsa03 breakout from esawdust ?
[11:51] <Randomskk> nope
[11:51] <m1x10> k
[11:52] <Northgate> just out of curiosity, if how can calc the decent rate?
[11:53] <Randomskk> it doesn't do descent. one day it might
[11:54] <Northgate> kk
[11:54] <m1x10> Northgate post us some pics
[11:54] <m1x10> We can help more if we see
[11:54] <Northgate> ok i will upload some now
[11:56] <fsphil> what all is in the payload?
[11:56] <m1x10> fsphil what time is now in uk ?
[11:57] <Randomskk> 12:57:18
[11:57] <fsphil> 12:57
[11:57] <m1x10> so shops are open right?
[11:57] <Randomskk> by and large.
[11:57] <m1x10> I sent a mail in radiometrix and im waiting ..
[11:58] <Randomskk> they may take a little while to reply. depends what you asked
[11:58] <m1x10> aah just the price+shipping of HX1
[11:59] <fsphil> Last time I contacted them they always replied that day or the next
[12:01] <m1x10> yesterday was a bad day. 100euro damage :(
[12:01] <m1x10> fsa and hx1
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[12:03] <Northgate> right the photo is up
[12:03] <m1x10> link?
[12:03] <Northgate> http://www.elmjoy.com/balloon/rig.jpg
[12:04] <m1x10> broken
[12:04] <Northgate> http://www.elmjoy.com/balloon/Rig.jpg
[12:04] <Northgate> there
[12:04] <m1x10> lol
[12:04] <Randomskk> sweet duck
[12:04] <Northgate> :o)
[12:04] <m1x10> its huge
[12:04] <Northgate> duck cam!
[12:04] <Randomskk> usually payloads here would not have all the white padding, just the box itself
[12:05] <Randomskk> though it might help it float >.>
[12:05] <m1x10> hehe
[12:05] <m1x10> if its styrofoam it will
[12:05] <m1x10> without the padding
[12:06] <Northgate> the black box itself is just over a kilo
[12:06] <m1x10> is it styrofoam?
[12:06] <Northgate> expanded polystyrene
[12:07] <m1x10> should float
[12:07] <m1x10> try it in the bathroom :)
[12:07] <m1x10> and if it floats then remove padding
[12:07] <m1x10> and be sure the parachute open
[12:08] <m1x10> its really big
[12:08] <m1x10> most ppl here just do it in a box
[12:08] <Northgate> well its my first go so, :(
[12:09] <m1x10> i havent launched before too
[12:10] Nick change: m1x10 -> m1x10_launch
[12:13] <Northgate> http://www.habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=715fced0febb63c8054ba12198707d7a5ca3d651
[12:13] <Northgate> going by that, i better book a flight!
[12:14] <Randomskk> uhm
[12:14] <Randomskk> ascent 0.8, descent 41?
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[12:18] <Randomskk> if your plan involves a balloon coming down at 92 miles an hour
[12:18] <Randomskk> you need to rethink your plan
[12:18] <Northgate> sorry thats wrong
[12:18] <Randomskk> because that would be like, 1.6kj of KE
[12:18] <Randomskk> a seriously bad time for anyone involved
[12:18] <Randomskk> usually you want like 5 or 6 descent
[12:18] <Northgate> kk
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[12:25] <Northgate> if i launch 1kg the accent rate is 9.41m/s
[12:25] <Northgate> does that sound sensible?
[12:26] <Randomskk> it's not bad. probably I'd go for a slightly lower ascent and thus get more altitude
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[12:46] <Darkside> hmm
[12:46] <Darkside> hai all
[12:48] <fsphil> hi hi
[12:49] <Darkside> been having fun with the xmega today
[12:49] <Darkside> tried to get my RTTY code working using the 32.768KHz crystal for timing
[12:49] <Darkside> didn't work..
[12:49] <Darkside> heh
[12:50] <Darkside> it was close, but not perfect
[12:50] <Darkside> i was getting better results just using a bloody _delay_ms call
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[12:57] <grummund> Darkside: are you using your own board or the Xplain card?
[12:57] <grummund> and may i ask what programmer do you use?
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[13:05] <Darkside> xplaain
[13:05] <Darkside> xplain
[13:05] <Darkside> and using the AVRISPMKII
[13:05] <grummund> with PDI ?
[13:05] <Darkside> yup
[13:06] <Darkside> i dont have a JTAGICE, though i can probably get one from uni
[13:07] <grummund> yeah. i was just asking cos for a mement i thought i'd bricked my board...
[13:07] <Darkside> ahh heh
[13:07] <grummund> changed the BOD fuses and it stopped responding ;-/
[13:07] <Darkside> eek
[13:07] <Darkside> i havent touched any of the fuses lol
[13:07] <Darkside> don't need to
[13:08] <grummund> i not sure you can disable PDI though, which is what i was concerned about
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[14:09] <Laurenceb> hi
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[14:19] Nick change: m1x10_launch -> m1x10
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[14:44] <Upu> Right try loose that in a green field : http://www.flickr.com/photos/avahab/sets/72157624924217198/ :)
[14:45] <jonsowman> hahaha
[14:45] <jonsowman> excellent
[14:45] <jonsowman> :D
[14:45] <Darkside> oh man
[14:45] <Darkside> its pink
[14:45] <Upu> that would be a fair description of the colour yes
[14:45] <Darkside> :P
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[14:54] <Northgate> hi all, thanks for your help earlier
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[15:02] <m1x10> Upu you just go and buy the blue styrofoam ? or find it somewhere?
[15:03] <m1x10> also I see a UHU glue. Is it suitable for it?
[15:04] <m1x10> the pink color is awesome by the way
[15:06] <m1x10> arent you afraid of getting the window fogged ?
[15:08] <m1x10> Laurenceb, I got a very big reply for fsa03. Its a part of a new series that comes like that directly from falcom.
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[15:14] <Upu> hey m1x10 yeah got it from a builders merchant 25mm Styrofoam
[15:15] <Upu> UHU Por is specifically for polystrene
[15:15] <Upu> Yes pink is awesome(TM)
[15:15] <Upu> and not sure about the window
[15:15] <Upu> probably going to stuff a load of silica gel in before launch or something
[15:15] <Upu> it comes off it's only a 58mm U/V filter from a 35mm
[15:17] <SAIDias> Upu: are you sure you want to use that filter
[15:17] <SAIDias> Upu: I did the samething, and got BAD condensation issue throughout the flight
[15:18] <Upu> I was going to ask about so I might just pull it off
[15:18] <SAIDias> let me get you some links
[15:18] <Upu> cheers
[15:18] <SAIDias> hold on
[15:18] <SAIDias> http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/iHAB-1/Payload_6.JPG
[15:19] <SAIDias> http://www.w0otm.com/ihAB/iHAB-1/Payload_Photos/IMG_2878.JPG
[15:20] <SAIDias> http://www.w0otm.com/ihAB/iHAB-1/Payload_Photos/IMG_2857.JPG
[15:20] <Upu> fair enough
[15:20] <Upu> :)
[15:21] <SAIDias> just thought I would share my experience
[15:21] <SAIDias> it was REALLY humid in Iowa that day here
[15:22] <SAIDias> so maybe that had something todo with it
[15:22] <SAIDias> but, I was bummed I got 2000 foggy picts
[15:22] <Upu> yeah my idea was to leave the camera and electronics in it over night with silica gel in there and remove the silica just before take off
[15:22] <Upu> can imagine
[15:23] <russss> don't use a window, is the answer
[15:24] <russss> I keep saying this.
[15:24] <Upu> cheers I'm trying to learn as much as I can off others
[15:24] <russss> there have been plenty of successful flights with zero condensation/icing which haven't used windows at all
[15:24] <russss> cameras tend to keep themselves warm enough when you're taking that many photos
[15:24] <Upu> so no issues exposing the camera effectively directly to -40 ?
[15:24] <Upu> ok
[15:25] <Upu> I shall remove the window, it just unscrews anyway
[15:25] <Upu> but advise very much appreciated
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[15:27] <russss> what are you using for telemetry though? That might be more temperature-sensitive
[15:27] <Darkside> Upu: Horus 7 had no window
[15:27] <Darkside> and i think it was a very similar camera to what you hve
[15:27] <Darkside> it survived down to -51 degrees C outside tmp
[15:27] <Upu> NTX2 + Inventek GPS
[15:27] <Upu> ok cheers
[15:28] <russss> ah, that's probably fine. You *might* have problems with the GPS losing lock at low temperatures
[15:28] <russss> the NTX2 will drift but you can just follow it
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[15:28] <Upu> it's rated to -40 and designed for high altitude ballon use apparently
[15:28] <russss> cool
[15:28] <Upu> but that will be in a sealed very small compartment
[15:28] <russss> literally.
[15:28] <Upu> I suspect it will get too hot probably
[15:28] <Upu> if anything
[15:29] <Upu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/avahab/4976432023/in/set-72157624924217198/
[15:29] <Upu> note the small compartment at the top left thats where the PCB sits vertically
[15:32] <russss> ah nice
[15:32] <russss> that's ideal, don't worry about the camera then
[15:33] <Upu> thought I'd keep them seperated
[15:33] <eroomde> ayup chaps
[15:33] <Upu> hello
[15:34] <eroomde> how are things? any cool launches or bits of tech in the last few weeks?
[15:34] <russss> Upu: where are you launching from?
[15:35] <Upu> no idea yet russss
[15:35] <eroomde> Upu: you're in manchester yes?
[15:35] <eroomde> or close to
[15:35] <Upu> Halifax
[15:35] <Upu> about 30 miles from Manchester
[15:35] <eroomde> camb a bit far or do-able?
[15:35] <Upu> oh no I can do there
[15:35] <russss> ah, we haven't had a UK launch for a while
[15:35] <Upu> I live about 6miles from Rob Harrison
[15:35] <eroomde> well, you're welcome to use it
[15:36] <eroomde> ah ok
[15:36] <Upu> ok cheers :)
[15:36] <eroomde> if he gets a launch site that'd obv be easier
[15:36] <eroomde> if not, you're welcome to ours
[15:36] <Upu> I wanted to tag along with someone elses launch first to see how it goes
[15:36] <Upu> many thanks
[15:36] <eroomde> i'll give you a ping the next launch we do
[15:36] <Upu> I need a PCB next and then lots of testing
[15:36] <eroomde> mmmm :)
[15:36] <Upu> cheers I can drive and I have a radio
[15:36] <eroomde> especially a meridian test
[15:37] <Upu> meridian ?
[15:37] <eroomde> i recall just a few weeks ago driving with randomskk and jonsowman between two exits of the bit of dual carriage-way that went over GMT, doing live debugging
[15:38] <eroomde> just to make sure you can handle E/W (or +/-) longitude corssovers
[15:38] <eroomde> it's caught a few people out in the past
[15:38] <Upu> oh good point I'll check my code
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[15:38] <eroomde> hey Neil
[15:39] <eroomde> yeah it occassionally causes people to drive out to the mirror image location of where they should be to pick it up
[15:39] <eroomde> we nearly did that a few years ago with jcoxon and rocketboy - about to drive off when james said 'oh hang on...'
[15:39] <Upu> lol
[15:41] <eroomde> what sort of thing are you going to launch?
[15:41] <Upu> define thing ?
[15:42] <eroomde> russss: the cambridge makespace seems to be gathering momentum now. Have been to a couple of meetups and they're about to put some money down on a permenant location
[15:42] <eroomde> Upu: in terms of hardware/mass/scope
[15:42] <Upu> just a camera 2 temps sensors and tracking initially
[15:42] <Upu> not sure how much it all weighs at the moment
[15:42] <Upu> 500g ?
[15:42] <eroomde> 'just' - that's the hardest bit!
[15:42] <Upu> Well if I dunked this breadboard in resin I could launch in about an hour :)
[15:43] <eroomde> 500g is nice - i've sort of been thinking (after taking a bit of a break from things as I am atm) that I want to keep my payloads <500g from now on. About the last 10 launches we've done have been about 2-3kg lumps
[15:43] <Upu> It's not alot however I have some future plans which will weigh a little more
[15:44] <Upu> going to put a bullet camera on a boom
[15:44] <Upu> pointing back at the payload
[15:44] <eroomde> ah sweet
[15:45] <eroomde> we;ve never done that, though I would dearly like to. Would be cool to get some pictures of payloads in context
[15:45] <Upu> I'll settle for getting it back first time round
[15:45] <Upu> yes exactly
[15:45] <eroomde> :)
[15:45] <eroomde> redundancy is never a bad thing...
[15:45] <Upu> that's what all the pictures are missing fantastic though they are
[15:45] <Upu> http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mini-dvr-2-helmet-camera.html
[15:46] <Upu> + wide angle lense + servo on the boom to move it up and down
[15:46] <eroomde> awesome
[15:46] <eroomde> i saw this the other day http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2010/09/06/Chilli-Technologies-Action-Cam-1/p1
[15:47] <eroomde> might be worth a look too - the price is right!
[15:47] <Upu> I'm sorry £21 ?
[15:47] <Upu> lol ok it's going up with one of those on
[15:47] <eroomde> it's video only i think
[15:48] <eroomde> but that would still look pretty awesome
[15:48] <Upu> yeah
[15:48] <eroomde> infact probably awesomeerer
[15:48] <Upu> Timobels video was superb especially the bit where it came down
[15:49] <eroomde> was that recent?
[15:49] <eroomde> (apologies, have been a bit out of the loop!)
[15:49] <Upu> yeah it landed in the sea
[15:49] <Upu> and he got a boat and got it back
[15:49] <eroomde> oh yes - it's been recovered then?
[15:49] <eroomde> awesome
[15:49] <eroomde> ]do you have a link to the video?
[15:49] <Upu> err 1 sec
[15:50] <eroomde> ta
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[15:54] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyG4ahAHb0&feature=player_embedded
[15:54] <eroomde> thanks
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[15:55] <eroomde> the moon!
[15:55] <Upu> yeah wait till the balloon burst
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[15:57] <eroomde> just letting it buffer (adsl seems lousy today)
[15:58] <eroomde> timobel has done a really nice job on his site
[15:58] <eroomde> really good graphics
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[16:05] <russss> nice video
[16:06] <russss> hadn't seen that one
[16:06] <natrium42> which video?
[16:07] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyG4ahAHb0&feature=player_embedded i think
[16:07] <russss> yeah
[16:11] <fsphil> good video that, love the descent
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[16:12] <eroomde> why are SSD's so expensive!?
[16:14] <eroomde> My macbook pro is 4.5 years old and instead of shelling out for a new one I thought I'd see if I could upfrade it, and an SSD seems to be the biggest single performance boost I could give it (the new macbook pro 13" models ship with only a slightly better CPU than my core 2 duo i have now). But good lord they cost a lot.
[16:14] <russss> I would hazard that they are still recouping a lot of R&D/tooling costs
[16:14] <russss> also Apple marks them up *massively*
[16:14] <eroomde> i'll sit tight for a bit longer.
[16:14] <eroomde> sure yes, i was going to get a 3rd party one and install it myself
[16:14] <russss> http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-OCZSSD2-1VTX60G-Vertex-2-5-Inch-Drive/dp/B001NPCTBE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=computers&qid=1284135277&sr=8-2
[16:14] <russss> I have one of those
[16:14] <russss> I think
[16:14] <eroomde> but even still, it costs a bomb
[16:15] <eroomde> the killer with this is that I want a big one as i can only have one drive in this thing
[16:15] <eroomde> i have 60GB worth of apps along easily
[16:16] <eroomde> the 120GB 5400 drive in the laptop now is pretty full and i have very little 'offloadable' stuff like movies. it's all just things like the CUSF SVN, lots of CAD models, a windows VM etc
[16:16] <fsphil> I have the same one russss, best upgrade I ever did though I do keep running out of space :/
[16:16] <eroomde> yeah
[16:16] <eroomde> i'd *like* a 256GB SSD. may have to wait though
[16:17] <russss> I have a 60GB SSD and a 1TB RAID1 array in my home PC
[16:17] <eroomde> if I build a desktop I'll for sure get a small SDD for / and a 2TB one for /home
[16:17] <russss> best of both worlds
[16:17] <eroomde> infact does anyway have experience with a NAS?
[16:17] <eroomde> i was looking at the synology 201j - it looks brilliant
[16:17] <fsphil> I'm resisting a mechanical drive, love the silent PC
[16:18] <eroomde> it's a server for everything (eg itunes), can be a remote music player, can run a s a git/svn server, has a really superb web interface, and costs very little
[16:18] <eroomde> and very very low power
[16:19] <eroomde> i was thinking of getting one as a media + work server for home, assuming I can beat my mother's war against standy LEDs ("It's using electricity!!!")
[16:19] <fsphil> lol
[16:20] <fsphil> I must take a look at that, could replace my server in the attic
[16:21] <eroomde> yeah
[16:21] <eroomde> and WD 'green' 2TB discs are about £80 each which isn't bad
[16:22] <eroomde> given they run a great deal cooler than most other kinds of HDD - so all-up it'd be about £300 for a 2TB RAID server, saving about £100/yr on electricity, according to my napkin
[16:23] <ms7821> but wd die after about a year
[16:24] <eroomde> is that in the small print?
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[16:24] <ms7821> mm, contractual obligation
[16:24] <natrium42> haha
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: tape the LEDs
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[16:25] <natrium42> i had both WDs die in a RAID1
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[16:25] <eroomde> hrm
[16:25] <eroomde> not sure I like the sound of that
[16:26] <natrium42> they did last a couple of years though, and i luckily had the data cached elsewhere
[16:26] <natrium42> incremental backups >>> mirrored raid
[16:27] <DanielRichman> setting up your raid with disks that you bought from the same place on the same day might be a bad idea
[16:28] <eroomde> i am also looking at this for CUSF - most balloon flights now seem to generate 10+ GB of data, which is a little shocking
[16:28] <DanielRichman> since they're more likely to fail at the same time?
[16:28] <natrium42> DanielRichman: pfft
[16:28] <eroomde> DanielRichman: assuming they're from the same batch and that the failures are due to a systematic error that is likely to affect a given batch, then yes
[16:28] <eroomde> but i'm not sure that either of those assumptions are necessarily that solid
[16:28] <natrium42> though RAID1 does not guarantee anything under power failure
[16:29] <DanielRichman> true, true
[16:29] <eroomde> natrium42: indeed yes. Would want a UPS
[16:29] <natrium42> so incremental backup wins
[16:29] <eroomde> these things have UPS detection I beleive
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[16:30] <Upu> nessie runs raid 10 with UPS and has 1.5Tb
[16:30] <DanielRichman> it might be cheaper to put your balloon data on a CDN or some other "cloud" (ugh) file storage system, though I don't klnow
[16:30] <eroomde> WD do seem to have a pretty good warranty- they send you out the new one straight away before you return the old one
[16:30] <eroomde> well, i looked out 'cloud' and for S3 at least, it was quite pricey
[16:31] <eroomde> when you're generating maybe 100GB a year
[16:31] <DanielRichman> What is this 10GB? pictures?
[16:31] <eroomde> pics, vids, yep
[16:31] <eroomde> usually fly two powershots, each gets a 4GB sd filled. we've actually be flying 8 and 16GB SDs in cameras we've been flying recently too
[16:32] <eroomde> they get filled
[16:32] <eroomde> and whilst you probably could check most of that data awa, it's nice to have it
[16:32] <DanielRichman> yeah, I kept the good pics on my pc's hdd and put the rest on external storage
[16:33] <eroomde> and you get smart people grabbing your entire SD dump and making panoramas, as happened with Nova8: http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[16:33] <DanielRichman> :)
[16:34] <ms7821> ooh
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[16:35] <eroomde> so you can see the desire to keep a complete record of all the data we get
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[16:35] <eroomde> even if we won't look at half of it ever again
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[16:45] <eroomde> any new flight computers?
[16:45] <eroomde> DanielRichman: how is yours coming along? last time I saw it it was a pcb layout screenshot
[16:45] Action: DanielRichman has finally got hold of the right lumps of silicon from the US
[16:45] <DanielRichman> I'm about to order the pcbs, this weekend I think
[16:46] <eroomde> any info on it?
[16:46] <DanielRichman> and then I have to teach myself to solder smds :)
[16:47] <DanielRichman> eroomde: it's got an xmega and an atusb on board (the atusb is for programming the xmega since I don't have a PDI programmer, and it means that the board as a whole requires no external programmer. the ATUSB isn't powered during flight)
[16:47] <eroomde> cute
[16:47] <DanielRichman> GPS, NiM2 (NTX2 + RX bit) connected to DAC inside the xmega (SSTV & DomEX proto code on my github)
[16:47] <DanielRichman> SD card slot on the bottom
[16:47] <DanielRichman> smiley faces underneath the large components
[16:47] <DanielRichman> I think that's everything
[16:47] <eroomde> power regulation?
[16:47] <DanielRichman> oh and the rest of the xmega pins are broken out
[16:48] <DanielRichman> Yeah on board 3v3 reg
[16:48] <DanielRichman> ~800mA iirc though I'll only be using ~140 of that
[16:48] <DanielRichman> I'd imagine
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[16:48] <eroomde> cool
[16:48] <DanielRichman> broken out pins include ~5usarts,spi,i2c
[16:48] <eroomde> I started designing a new one yesterday
[16:48] <DanielRichman> and the i2c pins could also be used for 1wire since the pullups are identical
[16:49] <DanielRichman> oooh, cool. There was some mutterings/discussion about a UKHAS kit but we haven't done anything yet
[16:49] <DanielRichman> there are several options and we'd need to look at who would use it
[16:49] <DanielRichman> however first, habhub. :)
[16:50] <eroomde> making it too easy for people is no fun
[16:51] <eroomde> :)
[16:51] <DanielRichman> I know, it is kind of cool that everyone in here has built their 'pooter from the ground up :)
[16:51] <DanielRichman> otoh it's duplicated work
[16:51] <DanielRichman> eroomde: what's going on your new flight computer board?
[16:52] <eroomde> it's going to be the product of what I've learnt from the previous two badgers
[16:52] <DanielRichman> badger #3?
[16:52] <eroomde> so it's just going to be designed around surviving
[16:52] <eroomde> so if it doesn't help it survive, it won't be going on
[16:53] <eroomde> so that means very very low power, switched power supplies to help that. very very solid grounding and routing. well isolated subsections, with power management to each one.
[16:53] <DanielRichman> ooh, very nice
[16:54] <eroomde> and as few mechanical connections as possible - soldered connections or death
[16:54] <DanielRichman> are you going to power down the GPS or something?
[16:54] <natrium42> eroomde: which micro are you gonna use?
[16:54] <DanielRichman> since compared to that the majority of the power consumption is minimal
[16:55] <DanielRichman> or use one that doesn't have an active antenna?
[16:55] <eroomde> so it'll be a cortex m3 clocked down as low as I can get away with, uBlox 5 onboard, NTX2 onboard, SD card, a couple of pyro channels with continuity, isolated io
[16:55] <DanielRichman> the NTX2 is ~the power of a LED, iirc
[16:55] <eroomde> I'll keep the GPS running - it's a necessary evil
[16:55] <eroomde> but will be considering firmware options to power it down occassionally
[16:55] <DanielRichman> you could have the capability to power it down and then add some logic to detect landing/not moving
[16:55] <eroomde> but really i want the software to be super robust aswell
[16:55] <DanielRichman> ahh, yes
[16:56] <eroomde> speaking of which, did you submit a bug upstream about the dominoex we yoinked from fldigi?
[16:56] <DanielRichman> yes, I heard absolutly nothing
[16:56] <eroomde> oh and it'll be 2-sided and 80x100mm so people can edit it with free eagle
[16:57] <eroomde> also voltage and current monitoring
[16:57] <eroomde> we often find ourselves wondering about the batteries
[16:57] <eroomde> but yes, nothing too whizz-bang, just want it to be very good at the basics
[16:57] <DanielRichman> do you mean the error in the varicode? https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/fldigi-devel/2010-June/000322.html
[16:58] <eroomde> and SURVIVE, even if everything else cocks up, i want to get a GPS position sent over radio
[16:58] <DanielRichman> it's not some obscure binary char either; means that every { arrives as a } (or the other way around, I forget)
[16:58] <DanielRichman> hehe
[16:58] <eroomde> that's all it really needs to do afterall!
[16:58] <eroomde> the rest is details
[16:59] <eroomde> i'm also building a separate board for uplinks on 2m
[16:59] <eroomde> oh it does have 3-axis accel and pressure too. i want burst-detection
[17:00] <eroomde> 2m uplink will just be DTMF
[17:03] <eroomde> i was actually going to use an atmega1280 but the cortex parts have slighty better mips/mA
[17:04] <eroomde> and there are arduino compatible dev environments for them now (leaflabs) and I want there to be a really low barrier to entry for development on this thing - my plan is to write some decent libraries for the arduino-cortex environment in parallel with a bare-metal c firmware, so people can tweak the firmware easily
[17:09] <DanielRichman> I totally support having solid, well made libraries for the ballooning; perhaps a RTTY for arduino one is required, however, I'm not a fan of the arduino dev environment
[17:10] <eroomde> oh it's yuck, but it's brilliant if you are new
[17:11] <eroomde> and it's not too difficult to set up the toolchain in cli and just use vim
[17:11] <DanielRichman> oh, I don't like the arduino java ide thingy; but I also meant that I dislike the arduino "core" library
[17:11] <eroomde> ... and minicom
[17:12] <eroomde> the nice thing is that you can just roll your own
[17:12] <DanielRichman> indeed
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[17:29] <eroomde> hiccup
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[18:05] <RocketBoy> a 6 min piece on helium running out - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00tl058 - 19:47 in - suggesting a price of £65 for a party balloons worth
[18:07] <natrium42> RocketBoy: what do you think about a campaign to switch to hydrogen?
[18:08] <RocketBoy> I guess that is where we would have to go ultimatly
[18:08] <m1x10> hydrogen?
[18:08] <m1x10> prons & cons? in comparison with helium
[18:12] <natrium42> lighter than helium, cheaper, possible to create at home
[18:12] <natrium42> cons are that you have to be careful as it's flammable
[18:16] <m1x10> cool
[18:16] <m1x10> http://www.ehow.com/about_6300694_lifting-power_-helium-vs_-hydrogen.html
[18:16] <m1x10> Density of Hydrogen
[18:16] <m1x10> explains how it works :)
[18:16] <m1x10> very simply
[18:16] <RocketBoy> I wondered if a mix of helium/hydrogen might work - where the helium might retard the hydrogen burning
[18:17] <RocketBoy> might be the way to go as helium prices rise
[18:18] <natrium42> well, it might be more ethical to use hydrogen even if prices are low right now :P
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[18:18] <m1x10> in the end says its very flamable
[18:19] <m1x10> but as space temp is -40 and air is little can it take fire up therE?
[18:19] <RocketBoy> its filling I worried about
[18:19] <natrium42> it's only a concern for ground ops
[18:20] <RocketBoy> and if it came down due to a slow leak etc
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[18:31] <m1x10> the density of hydrogen gas is 0.08988 g/L
[18:31] <m1x10> 1g/L = 1kg/m3
[18:31] <m1x10> in http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[18:32] <m1x10> says hydrogen density = 0.0899
[18:33] <m1x10> its not big difference though :)
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[18:35] <fsphil> create a launch platform like the copenhagen suborbital guys .. solar power to create H2 from the water, safe distance from people if something goes bad
[18:37] <fsphil> how big a bang would a typical balloon make though, if it where filled with H2 and ignited?
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[18:45] <RocketBoy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5MJhuaXUlc&feature=fvst
[18:47] <m1x10> ok he lights with fire
[18:47] <RocketBoy> a static spark will do
[18:47] <m1x10> I suppose we will not smoke during filling
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[18:50] <fsphil> yikes, and that's a fairly small balloon
[18:50] <m1x10> yeah good spot
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[18:52] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMB2VR0087w
[18:52] <fsphil> if you add oxygen to the mix ;-)
[18:53] <m1x10> looooooool
[18:53] <m1x10> how did they ingite it?
[18:53] <m1x10> i didnt see anything
[18:53] <fsphil> I can't see
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[18:56] <RocketBoy> the right H/O2 mix will self ignite
[18:57] <fsphil> they had a count down though
[18:57] <fsphil> it seemed to be controlled
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[19:10] <eroomde> the guys in the US are putting a lot of working into H2 on habs
[19:10] <eroomde> as the price has rocketed there
[19:11] <eroomde> keep an eye on the GPSL yaho mailing list
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[19:15] <eroomde> I am just scanning through it now for something soliad, but I think it's early days
[19:15] <eroomde> solid*
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[19:43] <eroomde> ping
[19:45] <Randomskk> hi eroomde
[19:50] <eroomde> ta
[19:50] <SAIDias> Stay updated with iHAB Project activities, Launch Information and Flight Status by subscribing to the iHAB Project mailing list.
[19:51] <SAIDias> http://www.w0otm.com/lists/?p=subscribe&id=4
[19:51] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[20:09] <Laurenceb> hi
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> ih
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[20:37] <natrium42> 1e
[20:40] <m1x10> —¹
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[21:05] Timbobel-mac (~kolonelkn@212-127-200-229.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[21:05] <Timbobel-mac> hello
[21:05] <Timbobel-mac> anyone here
[21:05] <Timbobel-mac> ping danielrichman
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> .
[21:06] <Timbobel-mac> hi
[21:08] <Timbobel-mac> dingdong ping speedevil
[21:08] <Timbobel-mac> ping speedevil
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> ?
[21:09] <Timbobel-mac> pm?
[21:10] <eroomde> i'm here. i can pong in several different languages
[21:11] <Timbobel-mac> ah okay so the pmming doesnt work
[21:11] <Timbobel-mac> so i have several arduino
[21:12] <Timbobel-mac> i want a bigger gun
[21:12] <Timbobel-mac> something fast
[21:12] <Timbobel-mac> tell me
[21:12] <eroomde> arduino mega?
[21:12] <Timbobel-mac> -have
[21:13] <eroomde> well, I've co-designed all of CUSF's flight computers and put on ARM7 on all of them
[21:13] <eroomde> and the next one I'm doing will be an ARM Cortex M3 which is the replacement for ARM7s
[21:13] <Timbobel-mac> oh really?!
[21:13] <Timbobel-mac> where can i find some basic info
[21:13] <eroomde> 32 bits, up to about 100MIPS, typically LQFP64/100/144
[21:13] <Timbobel-mac> sweet
[21:14] <eroomde> you'll be familiar with the basic operation from atmegas
[21:14] <Timbobel-mac> obviously
[21:14] <eroomde> just larger bitmasks and a bit more setting up of each peripheral
[21:14] <eroomde> but a *great deal* more power
[21:14] <Timbobel-mac> so which are the cons
[21:14] <Timbobel-mac> ehhhhh no
[21:14] <Timbobel-mac> i want to hear pro's
[21:14] <eroomde> 512kb of flash, 64k ram is normal
[21:15] <eroomde> they're often cheaper than big atmega's too
[21:15] <Timbobel-mac> yeah i have 32kb pro mini, something like that duamilenova, 128k mega
[21:15] <Timbobel-mac> 512k flash is gigantic yeah
[21:15] <Timbobel-mac> mhz?
[21:15] <eroomde> check out the leaflabs mabel if you want as painless and transition from arduino as is possible
[21:15] <eroomde> 60+ MHz
[21:15] <Timbobel-mac> where to buy
[21:15] <eroomde> http://leaflabs.com/
[21:16] <eroomde> well all the sual places sell the chips - mouser, farnell etc
[21:16] <Timbobel-mac> microprocessor at 72Mhz !
[21:16] <eroomde> yes
[21:16] <Timbobel-mac> yeah but not sparky
[21:16] <eroomde> although bear in mind there are considerations like you can't read flash at the speed
[21:16] <eroomde> so you aften find the CPU is waiting when it's doing lots of reads
[21:16] <Timbobel-mac> like how
[21:17] <eroomde> like how what?
[21:17] <Timbobel-mac> cant read flash
[21:17] <Timbobel-mac> dont get why not and what the implication is
[21:17] <Timbobel-mac> $50! bargain
[21:18] <eroomde> ah, well flash memory has a maximum speed that you can read from
[21:18] <eroomde> it's just inherent in the technology
[21:18] <Timbobel-mac> ooh i get what you mean
[21:18] <Timbobel-mac> i understand
[21:18] <eroomde> cool
[21:18] <eroomde> so yes, you never encounter it down in atmega land but from about 25+ MHz it starts to become a problem
[21:18] <Timbobel-mac> but lets say i did some complicated math on it, that'd be quick as crap
[21:18] <eroomde> yes indeed
[21:18] <eroomde> it's usually not a big problem
[21:19] <eroomde> just be aware of it when doing things like DMA
[21:19] <Timbobel-mac> but why would it be a real problem
[21:19] <eroomde> things like DMA - direct memory access
[21:19] <Timbobel-mac> which arm are you using?
[21:20] <Timbobel-mac> and, where to buy
[21:20] <eroomde> so the CPU can make a srot of interal peripheral called DMA do simple periphal-to-memory or memory-to-peripheral or memorty-to-memory or peripaherl-to-peripleral transfers
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Timbobel-mac: what sort of computation do you need to do.
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[21:21] <SpeedEvil> In some cases, simply using the right darta types on trhe arduino / 8 bit AVR can increase speeds by a factor of 1000.
[21:21] <eroomde> say you had a DAC and you wanted to generate a really complicated wave-form saved in memory - you'd set up DMA between the chunk of memory storing the wave form and the DMA, and just set that to automatically write from memory to DAC, freeing up the CPU to do other things
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[21:21] <Timbobel-mac> speedevil: yes i know, it's for a university projects in general
[21:22] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: badger1 used an LPC2148, badger2 used an LPC2368, and the one i'm laying out now is an STM32 chip, the precise sequence of letters i can't remember
[21:22] <Timbobel-mac> howd you solder that on
[21:22] <Timbobel-mac> uni?
[21:23] <eroomde> nope, just a decently fine tip and lots of flux
[21:23] <eroomde> and solder braid to clean up the mess
[21:23] <eroomde> I find TQFP stuff is really pretty easy with that technique
[21:23] <eroomde> we ahve more recently been using a @30 toaser oven and solder paste
[21:23] <eroomde> £20, sorry
[21:24] <Timbobel-mac> toaster oven, geez
[21:24] <Timbobel-mac> (by the way damn farnell is expensive)
[21:24] <eroomde> works great
[21:24] <eroomde> yeah they're not cheap - the price of convenience!
[21:24] <eroomde> try and get samples
[21:24] <Timbobel-mac> (not that i didnt know that the last 3 times i ordered there)
[21:25] <eroomde> i was saying earlier to Upu - i really like the write-up on your site
[21:25] <Timbobel-mac> but they are INSANELY fast
[21:25] <eroomde> really excellent graphics
[21:25] <Timbobel-mac> what do you mean
[21:25] <eroomde> the report that you made of HoHoHo
[21:25] <eroomde> it was excellent
[21:26] <Timbobel-mac> oh thanks a lot. i thought the natrium42 method of putting it all on one page was a good idea. just one page and thats it
[21:26] <eroomde> yeah
[21:26] <Timbobel-mac> then some people where 'disappointed' saying they kind of missed the 'how' you do it. then i made the overviews with the radio and camers etc
[21:26] <eroomde> excellent
[21:27] <Timbobel-mac> could be nice maybe to put one of the jpegs on the ukhas beginners page
[21:27] <Timbobel-mac> to show that in facts its quite simple
[21:28] <eroomde> agree
[21:28] <Upu> it's a wiki Timbobel-mac you can edit it
[21:28] <Timbobel-mac> so how big is the transition from the arduino/C code to coding a LPC?
[21:28] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4362704812/
[21:29] <eroomde> that's the LPC2368 on badger2
[21:29] <Timbobel-mac> upu: yeah i know :) i am lazy
[21:29] <Timbobel-mac> tomorrow
[21:29] <Upu> :)
[21:29] <Timbobel-mac> damn mn that is one sweet board
[21:29] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: it's basically the same way of doing things, the ARMs just have a bit more setting up to do things, as they're a bit more complicated
[21:29] <Timbobel-mac> i thought mine was cool (see the website)
[21:30] <eroomde> so for example the initialisation code has to do a bit more - it has to set the multiplier to get the internal clock rate set up from the slower crystal
[21:30] <eroomde> it uses a phase locked loop to do this
[21:30] <Timbobel-mac> i was talking to jcoxon the other day about uplinks (yeah different subject :))
[21:30] <eroomde> so you then have to wait until a flag is set telling you that the phase locked loop has stabilised
[21:30] <eroomde> things like that
[21:30] <Timbobel-mac> hmm
[21:30] <Timbobel-mac> yeah i might order a devkit and check it out
[21:30] <Timbobel-mac> anyway, so he said you guys did some uplinks right
[21:31] <eroomde> nothing inherently more complicated, just a few more registers to bash to do stuff. but once you get your functions written it's pretty easy
[21:31] <eroomde> yes
[21:31] <eroomde> we've done uplinks
[21:31] <Timbobel-mac> okay
[21:31] <Timbobel-mac> so which module would you recommend for me
[21:31] <eroomde> not the one we use
[21:31] <eroomde> try a NIM2 or something - DanielRichman has designed one into his board, not sure if it's been actually used yet though
[21:32] <eroomde> for the next flight computer i'm actually using DTMF on 2m for uplinks
[21:32] <eroomde> we use a chip called the cc1111 . learnt a lot but it's not very easy to use or program
[21:32] <Timbobel-mac> yeah i have been thinking of ordering the nim2.. i almost bought it today, but radiometrix doesnt ship abroad
[21:32] <Timbobel-mac> yeah i checked out your website, with the Watt / km graph
[21:33] <eroomde> i think that could be improved upon fairly easily
[21:33] <eroomde> but there are other battles
[21:33] <Timbobel-mac> yeah.. so, allright.
[21:34] <Timbobel-mac> am i seeing helical 434 mhz antennas?
[21:34] <eroomde> where?
[21:34] <Timbobel-mac> on badgers 1, 2, etc
[21:35] <eroomde> nope
[21:35] <Timbobel-mac> GEEEZ hahaha bager 1!!! how cool is that, it washed up!?
[21:35] <eroomde> yep!
[21:35] <Timbobel-mac> how long
[21:35] <eroomde> and the sd card worked after many months at sea
[21:35] <Timbobel-mac> i didnt expect otherwise :)
[21:36] <Timbobel-mac> how long did it take.. how did you get back in touch
[21:36] <eroomde> I actually spent an evening trying to getthe whole thing to boot up
[21:36] <eroomde> but als no luck
[21:37] <Timbobel-mac> HAHA
[21:37] <Timbobel-mac> the cheese!
[21:38] <Timbobel-mac> was that cusf?!
[21:38] <eroomde> nope
[21:38] <eroomde> some guys in the south west
[21:38] <Timbobel-mac> omg did i see him putting a whole laptop in there?
[21:38] <eroomde> they lost it so we phoned them up and tried to run the predictor on it
[21:38] <eroomde> where?
[21:39] <Timbobel-mac> the movie you link to on flcikr
[21:39] <Timbobel-mac> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3764666943/
[21:40] <eroomde> i hope not!
[21:40] <eroomde> that'd weight quite a lot
[21:40] <Timbobel-mac> anyway
[21:40] <Randomskk> eroomde: are you using the ST library for the stm32, or something else?
[21:40] <Timbobel-mac> have you guys designed a release system of some kind..?
[21:41] <Randomskk> there's the leaflabs one and the libopenstm32/libopencm3 that I'm aware of
[21:41] <Randomskk> though the latter isn't really fully functional yet (though what it does have is a lot better than ST's)
[21:41] <eroomde> release system?
[21:42] <eroomde> Randomskk: no idea yet - just doing hardware
[21:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: fair enough. they're really fun chips
[21:42] <Timbobel-mac> like a balloon release system
[21:42] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: you mean for detaching from the balloon?
[21:42] <Timbobel-mac> yes
[21:42] <eroomde> sure yet
[21:42] <eroomde> yes*
[21:42] <eroomde> just the standard explosive links
[21:42] <Timbobel-mac> really?
[21:42] <eroomde> yep
[21:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: be sure to hook up the bootloader interface
[21:42] <Timbobel-mac> i have 0 experience
[21:42] <Timbobel-mac> enlighten me!
[21:42] <eroomde> ok
[21:43] <eroomde> so it's an acrylic tube
[21:43] <eroomde> infact there's a pic somewhere i think
[21:43] <Timbobel-mac> link? :)
[21:43] <Randomskk> eroomde: there are a few gotchas like the comms line chips need some peripheral inputs tied lie to use the bootloader, but it's generally way way way easier to use to program the thing
[21:45] <eroomde> Randomskk: with what?
[21:45] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: am just trying to find it
[21:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: huh?
[21:46] <eroomde> Randomskk: i didn't understand what you just said - it was phrased comparatively but i couldn't infer what you were comparing with
[21:46] <Randomskk> jtag
[21:46] <Randomskk> the bootloader interface is a serial port (or other, on some lines) which you just send the data over
[21:47] <Randomskk> there's a great python script to take a .bin and flash it
[21:47] <Randomskk> alternatively you can program them with jtag, which requires openocd and a 20pin connector and is a much bigger pain in the arse to use
[21:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:47] <Laurenceb> well done on the python script
[21:47] <fsphil> are these the ones you mean? http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3602260499/
[21:47] <Randomskk> the bootloader uses a pin on the chip (BOOT1) which is read at reset to select booting from flash or bootloader
[21:47] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: whats that really small glow engine called?
[21:48] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: i tied BOOT1 to the SD-sel line
[21:48] <Timbobel-mac> oh wow
[21:48] <Timbobel-mac> how do you make then, and how to ignite?
[21:48] <Randomskk> SD-sel?
[21:48] <Laurenceb> so it has a pull resistor that sets it to the correct level at boot
[21:48] <Laurenceb> sd select line sorry
[21:48] <eroomde> Randomskk: I'd much prefer jtag
[21:48] <eroomde> i understand it and have used it a lot
[21:48] <Laurenceb> if you do something like that it saves another pin
[21:49] <Randomskk> eroomde: for the sake of breaking out two serial pins I'd still say break them out
[21:49] <Randomskk> it is a lot quicker
[21:49] <eroomde> fsphil: yes, thanks
[21:49] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: how is the sd select line set?
[21:49] <Laurenceb> with the GPIO
[21:49] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: check out that link from fsphil http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3602260499/
[21:49] <Laurenceb> it has a pull down resistor attached
[21:49] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: but the GPIO is set when the thing is already booted?
[21:49] <eroomde> so it's an acrylic tube
[21:49] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:49] <Randomskk> how is its level determined at bootup then?
[21:49] <eroomde> expoy in both ends
[21:49] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: yes i saw but wthere is no explanation
[21:49] <eroomde> smokeless powder in the middle
[21:49] <eroomde> and an e-match
[21:49] <Timbobel-mac> e-match??
[21:50] <eroomde> electric match
[21:50] <eroomde> current in one end, fire out the other
[21:50] <fsphil> sweet
[21:50] <Timbobel-mac> did they ever fly..?
[21:50] <eroomde> sets off the smokeless powder and BOOM
[21:50] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: yes, I've personally flown these things many times
[21:50] <Timbobel-mac> howd i get smokeless powder
[21:50] <eroomde> find a local hunting shop
[21:50] <fsphil> there was talk of an electromagnetic release system, but I don't think it went beyond a discussion
[21:51] <eroomde> or cut up french bangers.firecrackers
[21:51] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: by the pull down ressitor
[21:51] <Laurenceb> ffs its not that complex
[21:51] <Laurenceb> was just saying you can still use the BOOT1 pin for GPIO
[21:51] <Randomskk> oh, right, rather than another way of selecting the thing
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> I prefer the simple concept of a ceramic resistor rated to 350C, with a loop of polythene round it
[21:52] <fsphil> could the e-match burn the nylon cord directly?
[21:52] <eroomde> I also want jtag as it makes debugging a thousand times easier
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[21:52] <Laurenceb> yeah, i use 0.125 watt resistors
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[21:52] <eroomde> there have been enough situations in the past where printf's quickly find themselves out of their depth
[21:52] <Randomskk> eroomde: serial bootloading does allow for OTA code updates, on the other hand :P
[21:52] <Laurenceb> you have DMA
[21:52] <Laurenceb> for the uart
[21:53] <eroomde> sure, there's USB->serial on this thing, no question
[21:53] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: thanks for the attention, i really appreciate it.
[21:53] <eroomde> but to not have jtag to develop is making life difficult
[21:53] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: not at all!
[21:53] <Randomskk> oh, sure, I'd keep jtag
[21:53] <Randomskk> especially since the stm32 has all the jtag resistors internal
[21:53] <Laurenceb> i didnt have jtag on my board
[21:53] <Randomskk> no need for ten odd pull up/downs on the thing
[21:53] <Laurenceb> oh thats nice
[21:53] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: i love talking shop
[21:54] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: my new stm32 designs don't, my dev boards do, it's a tradeoff I guess
[21:54] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: keep the acrylic tubes short
[21:54] <eroomde> you want them stiff so that they shatter
[21:54] <Laurenceb> guess jtag helps... depends what you want to do
[21:54] <Randomskk> debugging ethernet on the stm32 without jtag is a bit mean, but not the end of the world
[21:54] <Randomskk> routing it would have been a bit of a pain, the board was bad enough already with the MII
[21:54] <Laurenceb> ive found printf with some clever buffering to speed it up is almost always ok
[21:54] <eroomde> if too long, you can risk them not completely separating - a longitudianl fail rather than a hoop fail. you want a hoop fail
[21:54] <Randomskk> in retrospect, RMII would have made more sense here
[21:54] <Laurenceb> on avr at leat
[21:54] <Laurenceb> but on stm32 you have uart DMA
[21:54] <Laurenceb> to help
[21:54] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: ok ill try
[21:54] <Randomskk> or even that serial interface thing, given the data speed
[21:54] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: true
[21:55] <eroomde> Laurenceb: doesn't work when you're debugging an RTOS operating right at the limits of the CPU
[21:55] <Randomskk> it seems there'd be potential to make something that could do debugging over the serial
[21:55] <Laurenceb> exactly
[21:55] <Laurenceb> RTOS kernel debugging you need JTAG
[21:55] <Randomskk> given the stm32's various error handling interrupts
[21:55] <Laurenceb> i do not want to go there
[21:55] <eroomde> you want to freeze the cpu and start looking at registers
[21:55] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:55] <Randomskk> oh yea, definitely. planning on using an rtos on this?
[21:56] <Timbobel-mac> omg when i search for " e-matches" i only get datingsites
[21:56] <Laurenceb> nope
[21:56] <Laurenceb> not for my board - hence no jtag
[21:56] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: also, do make sure it's acrylic or some other plastic that hsatters rather than plastically deforms. i got our acrylic tube from ebay
[21:56] Action: Randomskk toyed with freertos, chibios for the stm32 but in the end decided against it so far
[21:56] <Laurenceb> maybe something like free-rtos if im sure it doesnt need tons of fine weaking
[21:56] <Timbobel-mac> how u get the fuse
[21:56] <Laurenceb> *tweaking
[21:56] <Randomskk> they have ported freertos to stm32
[21:56] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:56] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: we got the e-matches from a rocketry shop
[21:56] <Randomskk> so it should Just Work or something
[21:57] <Laurenceb> rolling my own RTOS is not my idea of fun
[21:57] <eroomde> Randomskk: lol
[21:57] <eroomde> i quite fancy rolling an rtos
[21:57] <Laurenceb> well it'll be a lot easier that rolling you r own
[21:57] <Laurenceb> nothing just works :P
[21:57] <Laurenceb> eeek you crazy :D
[21:57] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: on our flight computer (badger 2) we have two channels for firing pyrotechnics
[21:58] <Timbobel-mac> what voltage?
[21:58] <eroomde> each channel has a decent mosfet and capacitor to switch a fairly high current briedly (to blow the e-match) but it also checks circuit continuity
[21:58] <eroomde> it does this with a second line with a 10k resistor in series with the e-match - the current therefore is too low to fire the match but you can still read it with an io pin
[21:58] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: i might just make my own electric scissors..
[21:58] <Upu> anyone considered using a laser to blow the balloon rather than messing round with pyrotechnics ?
[21:58] <eroomde> we've found continuity checks to be *really* helpful
[21:58] <Laurenceb> if the resistors are built in and you really, really want jtag, its not the end of the world to solder wires on
[21:59] Action: Laurenceb just ordered a bus pirate
[21:59] <Timbobel-mac> upu: how about an arrow.. or a gun... bazooka!?
[21:59] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: just the flight computer voltage
[21:59] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: on a previous design I had an 8-pin header that brought out the jtag signals
[21:59] <Randomskk> and power
[21:59] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:59] <Randomskk> and used a separate tiny pcb that took them to the 20pin header
[21:59] <Randomskk> but given as it doesn't actually need resistors I mostly just do 20pin now when i want jtag
[21:59] <Randomskk> man, I still really want to get that FPGA up and running, too.
[21:59] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: they're really simple things, anything that can supply about an amp for 0.1 seconds should be completely fine
[21:59] <Laurenceb> i did a 4 pin header with uart and power to fulfil programming function
[21:59] <Laurenceb> and debugging
[22:00] <Laurenceb> so i could use a 48 pin device
[22:00] <Randomskk> I use the 6pin ones that mate to the ftdi boards, also providing reset which is nice
[22:00] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:00] <Upu> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33771
[22:00] <Laurenceb> getting jtag onto the 48 pin stm32 with all the other hardware was impossible
[22:00] <Upu> that would take out a balloon easily :)
[22:00] <Randomskk> I'm starting to think about this comms line chip's DMA ethernet thing too. I reckon I could stream images from one of the sparkfun modules over ethernet, actually making use of it having an onboard mac
[22:00] <Upu> probably take out the nylon cord as well for that matter
[22:01] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:01] <Randomskk> 600KB/s for 640x480 16bit images
[22:01] <eroomde> Upu: have often thought about trying that
[22:01] <Laurenceb> the dl-fldigi jpeg thing - anyone used it in flight?
[22:01] <Randomskk> yes, fsphil did
[22:01] <Timbobel-mac> fldigi has a jpeg thing!?
[22:01] <eroomde> not sure if the white balloon would be an ideal surface though
[22:01] <eroomde> as it's moving around a fair bit too
[22:01] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:01] <Upu> well if you need to "cut away" it seems more sensible to burst the balloon rather than mess about with explosives
[22:01] <Timbobel-mac> yeah but you want to get rid of the balloon..
[22:02] <eroomde> disagree strongly Upu
[22:02] <fsphil> had a few issues, working on improving it for next time
[22:02] <eroomde> you want to leave everything to do with the balloon behind
[22:02] <eroomde> otherwise you risk tangling with the chute
[22:02] <Upu> good point
[22:02] <Timbobel-mac> right
[22:02] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: whats that really small glow engine called?
[22:02] <Laurenceb> i think you mentioned something ages ago
[22:02] <Upu> thats a question I have is there any recommended distances from payload to chute to balloon ?
[22:02] <Laurenceb> i may have one in storage
[22:03] <eroomde> we have used a 3-axis accelerometer before to detect burst
[22:03] <eroomde> and then fire the pyro within 0.1s of burst
[22:03] <eroomde> to get a clean break-away
[22:03] <Randomskk> Upu: 20m and 10m :P
[22:03] <Laurenceb> thats a good plan
[22:03] <Upu> anyone got plans for a pyro ?
[22:03] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of using the same technique to fire a rockoon
[22:04] <eroomde> Upu: nope, just make something that looks about similar
[22:04] <eroomde> actually i can tell you mine if you want
[22:04] <Laurenceb> Upu: theres a photo of a hot resistor cutter somewhere
[22:04] <eroomde> these are the ones i make for cusf at any rate
[22:04] <Upu> could you use nichrome wire and a PP3 ?
[22:04] <eroomde> 12mm OD 8mm ID acrylic tube
[22:04] <eroomde> cut to 4cm length
[22:04] <eroomde> 1cm of epoxy each end
[22:05] <eroomde> e-match and black powder in the 2cm in the middle
[22:05] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: did that work, the accelerometer?
[22:05] <eroomde> first fill 1 end to 1cm deep epoxy and leave to set overnight. then insert ematch from the unfilled end, add 2cm of powder around the e-match
[22:05] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p6290015.jpg
[22:05] <Timbobel-mac> eroomde: can you point me to a e-match somewhere, all i get is datingsites
[22:05] <Laurenceb> ^ nice and simple one
[22:06] <Upu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3602260499/in/set-72157619368022480/
[22:06] <eroomde> make sure the e-match wires are out of the way so that you can drill through the expoxy that you put in the remaining 1cm
[22:06] <Upu> like that by any chance ?
[22:06] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: davy-fire
[22:07] <Timbobel-mac> Davy Fire Protection Inc in Orlando, FL | 6984 Venture Cir ...
[22:07] <eroomde> useless zeusbot
[22:08] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: will get you the link to our supplier
[22:08] <Timbobel-mac> thanks
[22:10] <Upu> N28BR
[22:10] <Upu> any UK suppliers ?
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[22:11] <eroomde> Timbobel-mac: http://www.rocketstore.co.uk/shop/product.asp?P_ID=429&strPageHistory=search&strKeywords=match&numPageStartPosition=1&strSearchCriteria=any&PT_ID=all
[22:12] <Timbobel-mac> thanks a lot
[22:12] <Upu> can you buy black powder in the UK without a license ?
[22:12] <Timbobel-mac> just make it
[22:13] <eroomde> Upu: i think you need a license
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[22:13] <eroomde> Upu: there is a workaround though
[22:13] <eroomde> you can buy quickmatch without a license
[22:13] <eroomde> that's just a cloth impregnated with black powder
[22:13] <eroomde> just scrunch it up and you get loads of black powder falling out
[22:14] <eroomde> however note black powder != smokeless powder. it's stronger, but smokeless is *plenty* strong enough for this app
[22:14] <Timbobel-mac> im out
[22:14] <Timbobel-mac> gnight guys
[22:14] <eroomde> infact just the e-match alone is often enough to blow the pyro
[22:14] <Timbobel-mac> thanks a lot again
[22:14] <eroomde> see you Timbobel-mac
[22:14] <Timbobel-mac> bb
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[22:15] <Upu> ok I'll look at that for launch 2 for launch 1 I'll just have to hope there isn't a tangle
[22:16] <Upu> so you can buy smokeless powder ?
[22:16] <eroomde> Upu: it's usually fine
[22:17] <eroomde> especially if you do something like 20m to chute and 10m to balloon as randomskk suggested
[22:17] <eroomde> that's what we did for nova 18, for example
[22:17] <eroomde> infact there's a launch vid
[22:17] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721830907/
[22:17] <eroomde> i adore those parachutes
[22:18] <Upu> that a radar reflector ?
[22:18] <eroomde> nope, all payloads
[22:18] <Upu> 4 ?
[22:19] <eroomde> i made te payloadcase for our one quite shiny though - http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/photostream/
[22:19] <eroomde> yep 4
[22:19] <Upu> how big was the balloon ?
[22:19] <eroomde> nova 18, squirrel (android phone), CGNLucas aerosol expeirment, and pegasus x where i can't remember the value of x
[22:19] <eroomde> 1.5kg
[22:19] <eroomde> total neck load was 3.5kg as i recall
[22:20] <Upu> wow
[22:20] <Upu> so with my 0.5kg and a 1600g balloon
[22:20] <eroomde> you'll be flirlting with alt records, yes
[22:20] <Upu> sweet
[22:21] <Upu> nice idea launching multiple payloads, did they all have trackers ?
[22:21] <Upu> or just the Ferret one ?
[22:22] <eroomde> ferret and pegasus had radios
[22:22] <eroomde> android phone had sms
[22:22] <eroomde> ferret was flying in nova18, sorry
[22:22] <eroomde> yeah multi-payload launches are fun, i like them
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[22:23] <eroomde> unless there's a good reason not to do them (like alt record or something) i prefer them
[22:23] <eroomde> it's a chnce for a shin-dig
[22:23] <Upu> I'll get my first flight in then see if anyone wants to tag a lift :)
[22:23] <eroomde> and you can concentrate on doing some specific interesting thing knowing that there are two other payloads dedicated to tracking
[22:23] <Upu> I have some silly ideads
[22:24] <Upu> which I have no idea if they will work
[22:24] <eroomde> shoot
[22:24] <Upu> how much part does UV affect the burst altitude ?
[22:25] <Upu> or is it purely the pressure ?
[22:25] <eroomde> i don't quantify it. it's definitely a factor though
[22:25] <eroomde> it tends to get you in slow ascents or floats
[22:25] <eroomde> can't quantify it*
[22:25] <eroomde> but for a fairly typical 4m/s ascent you probably won't notice
[22:26] <Upu> would spraying your balloon in factor 50 for kids and babies help , and I'm only 1/2 joking :)
[22:27] <eroomde> i don't know! might be worth a try
[22:27] <eroomde> it might not behave the same at -50
[22:27] <eroomde> at above the ozone there's a bazillion times more UV
[22:27] <eroomde> maybe coating it with titanium oxide powder might help too
[22:27] <Upu> ok that's my first experiment then I'll put two really small balloons attached to the payload on a boom , spray one with L'oreals finest and train a camera on them see which pops first
[22:27] <eroomde> :)
[22:28] <eroomde> i like it
[22:28] <Upu> ok second question
[22:28] <Upu> and the reason I'm interested in cut aways
[22:28] <Upu> if you heat the gas up some how
[22:28] <Upu> and vent it off
[22:28] <Upu> I.e warmer less pressure you'll go higher
[22:29] <eroomde> yep
[22:29] <eroomde> never thought about warming at altitude, but venting once you're up high definitely should help
[22:29] <eroomde> no one has yet cracked it though
[22:29] <Upu> heating seems to me to be fairly simple just a U tube in the bottom of the neck heat one size and in theory you won't need a pump
[22:29] <eroomde> so there's plenty of interesting work to be done there
[22:29] <Upu> size=side
[22:29] <Upu> no moving parts, sealed system
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> lau http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Black-Bee-Customized-Cox-049-Model-Airplane-Engine-/390235034191?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5adbd2124f
[22:30] <eroomde> probably worth doing some sums on how long it'll take to heat such a large volume of low pressure gas with only a couple of watts of heat
[22:30] <Upu> Yep again sounds like another experiment is needed on small scale :)
[22:30] <eroomde> maybe coating the top of the balloon in bin liners could help
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> And if the envelope heating makes a difference
[22:31] <eroomde> a balloon of 1.5kg size at altitude will have several kW of solar energy landing on it
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> of course some will go right through
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> but
[22:31] <Upu> so really getting heat into that lot at altitude will take power we probably done have
[22:31] <Upu> unless we do it chemically...
[22:31] <Upu> done=don't
[22:32] <Upu> all interesting
[22:32] <Upu> Sounds like I have some experiments to do :)
[22:33] <eroomde> yes - chemically would be a great thing to look at
[22:33] <eroomde> infact heres an idea i had
[22:33] <eroomde> NaOH through a silver gause
[22:33] <eroomde> produces a lot of heat
[22:33] <eroomde> and hydrogen
[22:33] <Upu> oh also I was going to vent to another smaller balloon, no point wasting lift :)
[22:33] <Upu> hmm
[22:33] <Upu> warm hydrogen :)
[22:34] <eroomde> sorry, aluminium not silver
[22:34] <eroomde> so yes, pump naoh through a alauminium catalyst pack in the neck of the balloon, you get hot hydrogen displacing cold He
[22:34] <eroomde> WIN
[22:34] <eroomde> either that or it goes spectacularly wrong
[22:35] <eroomde> which would be cool too
[22:35] <Upu> either it goes higher or you get a cut away :)
[22:36] <Upu> I'll work out some experiments to test each stage, need to work out how to get the pressure and temperature from inside the balloon first
[22:36] <eroomde> yeah. i am interested in this too
[22:37] <Upu> Let me get a working platform first then I'll draw up some ideas, will have a chat with you
[22:37] <eroomde> having a bit of pvc tube with the balloon neck over the top (+ jubillee clips) and then a small suit of sensors inside the tube (temperature, differential pressure) could be very useful data
[22:37] <Upu> yeah so we know what a normal launch is so we know when to vent, what the burst pressure is etc
[22:37] <eroomde> cool yes, let's chat about this at some point
[22:37] <Upu> ok on that note I best call it a night
[22:37] <eroomde> cool, see you
[22:37] <Upu> see you in space :)
[22:37] <eroomde> :p
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[23:39] <johnnyfive_> any US HABers here? Need info on RF
[23:40] <er1k757> johnnyfive_: yep. we're in VA
[23:40] <johnnyfive_> you have any experience with using RF for long-range tracking?
[23:41] <johnnyfive_> trying to find a decent module
[23:41] <er1k757> sure. we launched about 10 days ago using 2M + APRS
[23:41] <er1k757> we used a Radiometrix HX1
[23:41] <er1k757> it's 300mW (on 144.390 for aprs)
[23:41] <er1k757> i think i paid about $38 for it
[23:42] <johnnyfive_> how far did the signal travel?
[23:42] <er1k757> worked well with a home-made twinlead J-pole antenna
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> ARPS is common too
[23:42] <er1k757> not sure exactly, but we were getting good telemetry @ 100k/ft+
[23:42] <johnnyfive_> wow that's perfect
[23:42] <er1k757> it looked like we were hitting digipeaters 60+ miles away
[23:42] <johnnyfive_> and way less expensive than an EXtend
[23:42] <er1k757> at altitude
[23:43] <johnnyfive_> what is "2M"?
[23:43] <er1k757> oh, 2 meter
[23:43] <er1k757> (narrow FM)
[23:44] <johnnyfive_> ahh I see
[23:44] <johnnyfive_> wow i'm so far over my head. Got so much learning to do
[23:45] <er1k757> nah, there's plenty of good documentation around on the web
[23:45] <er1k757> FWIW, we used an Atmel microcontroller + the open source 'trackuino' code for APRS
[23:45] <er1k757> which saved a lot of time.
[23:46] <johnnyfive_> I have a netduino
[23:49] <johnnyfive_> in the trackuino schematic, just for confirmation i'm reading this right, the srb and hx1 are both attached to the same antenna?
[23:52] <er1k757> well, you only need one or the other
[23:52] <er1k757> the srb is another xmitter module
[23:52] <johnnyfive_> yes I get that, just wanting to make sure i'm reading it right
[23:52] <er1k757> yep, I think you are
[23:53] <er1k757> (and the SRB module looks nice too - we used the HX1 because it was cheaper, and Byonics uses those in their TinyTrak devices)
[23:55] <johnnyfive_> well if it works at 100k/ft.. not much to complain about there
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 11 2010