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[01:39] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
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[02:41] <sYx66> let's go atlantic! :)
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[11:37] <Darkside> DanielRichman: thanks for the code again
[11:37] <fsphil> Isle of Man in the race to the moon -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8975000/8975583.stm
[11:37] <Darkside> i like the way you do your timing
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[14:58] <timbobel> wooooow got my batchpcb order!
[14:58] <timbobel> a $50 order
[14:58] <timbobel> and
[14:58] <timbobel> they deliverd it
[14:58] <timbobel> DOUBLE quantityyy!!!!!!
[14:58] <timbobel> Love batchpcb
[15:00] <m1x10> you send them eagle schematics and they send you the pcb ?
[15:03] <jshriver> congrats :)
[15:03] <jshriver> have a url?
[15:19] <fsphil> excellent
[15:19] <fsphil> how do they look?
[15:38] <DanielRichman> Darkside: the timing in that stuff is a bit rough; check the alien1 code for "proper" finished timing
[15:38] <Upu> New logo DanielRichman just for you :) http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/themes/zbench/images/avalogo.jpg
[15:39] <DanielRichman> the critical bits (sstv scans and domex chars) are done with a timer which is Good, though for the sstv-id-byte (rtty) I just used _delays because I couldn't be bothered. For the final version (alien2) I will though
[15:39] <DanielRichman> Upu: :D
[15:39] <Upu> :)
[15:39] <Upu> on a really boring conference call so just knocked it up :)
[15:43] <DanielRichman> :P
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[15:49] <timbobel> hey guys
[15:49] <timbobel> im soldering
[15:49] <timbobel> quick brainfreeze check
[15:49] <timbobel> f.e., arduino port 8 -> LED -> gnd
[15:49] <timbobel> 8 is considered + right
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[15:53] <fsphil> yes, if the pin is set to 1 and and is an output
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> You need a resistor too
[15:54] <m1x10> yeah a 330 one
[15:54] <m1x10> SpeedEvil by the way I finally understood how the pullup/down works
[15:54] <m1x10> :)
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:55] <m1x10> the floating happens cause the pin is in input mode
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> that'll do it
[15:56] <Upu> Ok hows this to guarantee I'll get the balloon back going to stick this to the side of it : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/warningsign.jpg
[15:57] <Upu> p.s I am joking
[15:57] <m1x10> lol
[15:57] <m1x10> high altitude bomber
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[15:57] <m1x10> :)
[15:57] <Upu> slow afternoon sorry
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> 'DANGER! Small harmless scientific experimental fusion warhead. Please do not open!'
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[16:17] <jshriver> Is there a world record for amateur highest altitude reached by an unmanned balloon?
[16:18] <jshriver> see that 30km is common
[16:18] <jshriver> well not that any of this is common :)
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.arhab.org/records/records/haltitude.html
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> 35km uk 39 us
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[16:25] <jshriver> nifty ty
[16:26] <jshriver> has anyone tried a double balloon? something I'm tinkering with doing
[16:28] <jshriver> basically a smaller balloon inside a much larger one. Inflate interior balloon for initial liftoff, and when it pops it would release into the larger balloon with more room to expand. just an idea, though I suspect the outer balloon would prob get tears when the first pops
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> umm
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> if you do that, tehre is no reason to not simply underfill the second
[16:29] <jshriver> hrm guess that makes sense.
[16:29] <jshriver> do they pop just because of pressure? or other factors as well
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> pretty much diameter
[16:33] <Upu> jshriver you need to heat the gas and vent it off to maintain lift vs pressure
[16:33] <Upu> in theory
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[17:15] <jcoxon> evening
[17:24] <timbobel> hi
[17:24] <jcoxon> hey timbobel
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[17:33] <timbobel> i have tuned your breakout
[17:33] <timbobel> just received it today
[17:33] <timbobel> (lassen iq)
[17:33] <timbobel> it has smd resistors on the bottom and the battery too
[17:33] <jcoxon> oh cool
[17:33] <timbobel> looks awesome
[17:34] <jcoxon> pics!
[17:34] <jcoxon> bbl
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[17:37] <jshriver> can you buy them individually or only bulk orders?
[17:37] <jshriver> read that a lot of gps receivers aren't reliable after a certain height.
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[17:54] <France> Hi@all
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[17:55] <kladol> hi @ all
[17:55] <kladol> Tim
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[18:00] <kladol> Some problems with a FAS03 -> buffer overrun ? someone ?
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[18:00] <m1x10> hi kladol
[18:00] <m1x10> maybe i can help
[18:01] <m1x10> describe the situation first
[18:01] <kladol> Yes please
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[18:03] <kladol> Running a Arduino mini Pro@3v a FSA03 gps and TinyGps works fine but after nexr power up no fix at all
[18:03] <m1x10> can u write your own simple code to just having it read ?
[18:04] <m1x10> void loop() { gpsUart.read() }
[18:04] <m1x10> so we get rid of tinygp
[18:04] <m1x10> s
[18:05] <kladol> Yes , i can use the code from the Horus project
[18:05] <m1x10> and what do u mean next power up? you switch off and then switch on ?
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[18:06] <m1x10> fsa03 has a very fragile antenna
[18:07] <m1x10> how much time do u wait to get the next fix?
[18:07] <kladol> Yes
[18:08] <kladol> 5 or 6 mins
[18:08] <m1x10> !
[18:08] <m1x10> man thats ok
[18:08] <m1x10> relax
[18:08] <m1x10> so after next power up u just wait a couple of minutes and u get a fix?
[18:09] <m1x10> if thats the case then its not considered a problem for FSA
[18:09] <kladol> No allways
[18:09] <m1x10> 10minutes?
[18:10] <kladol> more
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[18:10] <m1x10> 1hour ?
[18:10] <kladol> no ;-)
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[18:10] <m1x10> ok if its <30min its ok
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[18:12] <kladol> Maby it has someting to do with the initialization (setup) from the FSA3 ?
[18:14] <m1x10> u do any special initialization?
[18:14] <m1x10> you send ubx protocol?
[18:15] <kladol> I'using the code from the wiki : http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[18:15] <m1x10> ok
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[18:16] <m1x10> did u try without using that code?
[18:16] <kladol> no
[18:16] <m1x10> first do your own simple code
[18:16] <m1x10> ensure that gps is 100% functional
[18:16] <kladol> also using the pached TinyGps
[18:16] <m1x10> then start using those codes
[18:18] <kladol> Oke
[18:18] <m1x10> use Newsoftserial to read from gps
[18:18] <m1x10> NewSoftSerial(rx, tx)
[18:19] <m1x10> uart.begin(9600)
[18:19] <m1x10> char a = uart.read();
[18:19] <m1x10> Serial.print(a);
[18:19] <m1x10> something simple like that
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[18:20] <kladol> Is it possible to config the FSA3 to 4800 baud ?
[18:20] <m1x10> yes but only using uxb protocol
[18:20] <m1x10> but why
[18:21] <kladol> Maby the Arduino@8 mhz is to slow for 9600 ?
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> Software serial is always a bad idea.
[18:22] <kladol> I there an altrenative ?
[18:22] <kladol> Is
[18:23] <m1x10> yes just to wire arduino rx/tx to gps tx/rx
[18:23] <m1x10> but u need to remove the wires every time you upload code
[18:24] <kladol> What do i have to change in the ubx call to sw the baud rate to 4800 ?
[18:24] <m1x10> unfortunately sometime ago i decoded most ubx commands
[18:24] <m1x10> but not this one
[18:24] <kladol> a ha the jumpers
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[18:25] <kladol> can i find it in the manual/documentation from the ublox
[18:26] <m1x10> google it, i dont have it handy now
[18:27] <kladol> I do at the moment
[18:28] <kladol> is in in de doc or did you a hardware (busspy) decoding ?
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[18:29] <m1x10> this is for 9600:
[18:29] <m1x10> 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x00, 0x14, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xD0, 0x08, 0x00, 0x00, 0x80, 0x25, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03, 0x00, 0x03, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x9E, 0x95
[18:29] <m1x10> this is for 4800:
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[18:31] <m1x10> 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x00, 0x14, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xD0, 0x08, 0x00, 0x00, 0xC0, 0x12, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03, 0x00, 0x03, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xCB, 0xC4
[18:31] <kladol> Oke thankz m1x10 ! , going to try to run @4800 baud
[18:31] <m1x10> k
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[19:09] <kladol> hi@all
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[19:12] <MrCraig> hey all
[19:16] <jshriver> howdy
[19:19] <MrCraig> anythin goin on?
[19:22] <jshriver> not much tinkering on a project :)
[19:22] <jshriver> sorry for delayed response
[19:22] <jshriver> you?
[19:23] <MrCraig> :-) no problem, you got your head in something so I understand. I'm working on a GUI for a touch screen that I'm sticking in the car (with view to it becoming a chase car when I source a suitable radio) - but in honesty I'm too tired to focus.
[19:31] <kladol> hi
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[19:32] <MrCraig> hi :)
[19:32] <jcoxon> afternoon
[19:32] <jcoxon> well more like evening
[19:33] <kladol> Y'for me too 21.30 localtime
[19:34] <MrCraig> 20:33 here - UK, just off J9 M25 :)
[19:35] <kladol> 51.99423 # 4.16786 ;-)
[19:35] Action: jcoxon got his new ballast pump
[19:35] <MrCraig> cool
[19:35] <kladol> for the transatlantic ?
[19:36] <jcoxon> well for the uk based test flights but the system is being developed for an eventual trans-a
[19:36] <MrCraig> I'm contemplating a preasure sensitive valve dialed to around the elastic limit - anyone tried anything like this? (with exception of halo fx)
[19:37] <jcoxon> MrCraig, there are some valve designs
[19:37] <jcoxon> that are being planned
[19:37] <jcoxon> a flight in hte US flew a helium valve recently but it didn't work
[19:37] <MrCraig> I'm in the hope that it will increase altitude by preventing the balloon from perishing
[19:38] <jcoxon> i see
[19:39] <MrCraig> well maybe I'll put one on flight 2
[19:39] <MrCraig> :-)
[19:39] <jcoxon> hehe yeah best get a working system :-p
[19:39] <timbobel> jcoxon why didnt it owrk
[19:40] <MrCraig> yeah - I don't want to run before I can walk with it. I still have to program the pic to control the camera and transmit gps etc etc, already enough complication.
[19:40] <jcoxon> timbobel, i'm not too sure
[19:49] <kladol> Hallo Tim
[19:50] <timbobel> hi
[19:50] <timbobel> god i made a mistake in my pcb hahaha wtf
[19:51] <kladol> Komt er nog een HoHo2 ?
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[19:51] <timbobel> yes
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[19:52] <timbobel> but the HoHoHo II will launch from the northsea
[19:52] <kladol> nice to hear ..
[19:52] <kladol> well why
[19:54] <kladol> from a boat or drilling platform?
[19:55] <timbobel> no, to photograph a launch platform
[19:55] <timbobel> it will be thethered (=attached to with a rope)
[19:56] <timbobel> hey, does anyone know if it matters if the TX of my arduino is shorted (connected to gnd)
[20:03] <fsphil> not if you put a resistor between the pin and ground
[20:06] <timbobel> why would it matter
[20:07] <fsphil> if the pin where to go high, then the resistor would limit the current to a safe amount
[20:08] <jcoxon> ping DanielRichman
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[20:13] <timbobel> ping jcoxon
[20:15] <fsphil> woo, the jpeg equivalent of a hello world -> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/genheaders.jpeg :)
[20:15] <fsphil> and quite possibly the most boring image imaginable
[20:17] <MrCraig> you should print it and hang it on the wall in an art gallery and watch people walking by being pretentious about it "yes, the subtle shade breaks the bleak texture of the wall, and the illumination from near by fenistra shows the true genius of the piece"
[20:17] <MrCraig> you may even sell it.
[20:17] <fsphil> lol
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[20:26] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[20:27] <m1x10> ping kladol
[20:27] <RocketBoy> hey Jcoxon
[20:31] <jshriver> anyone recommend relatively inexpensive sensors that can be bought in 1-3 quantity
[20:31] <jshriver> environmental sensors, temperature, barometric pressure, etc.. know gps can do altitude
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> 1-wire temp sensors are good
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> ds18b20
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[20:48] <kladol> m1x10 - setting the baud rate to 4800 solved the problem thankz for y' help
[20:52] <m1x10> nice then
[20:52] <timbobel> omg i cannot understand why you are all still using the fsa03
[20:53] <m1x10> kladol what information do u want from the gps?
[20:53] <m1x10> only position and speed for example?
[20:53] <jcoxon> timbobel, cause the lassen is crap
[20:53] <jcoxon> 12 channel
[20:53] <jcoxon> eek
[20:54] <jcoxon> sure the antenna rattles a bit
[20:54] <jcoxon> but that can be secured
[20:54] <kladol> just te normal lat,long.alt,speed,sat
[20:54] <timbobel> i had a distributer actually say he said that indeed they have a lot of proplems with the falcom
[20:54] <timbobel> but sure, wait until you have a hardish landing it'll die.
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[20:55] <m1x10> kladol, well there is a handy trick
[20:55] <kladol> I got 2 of them .....befor reading your blog ...;-)
[20:55] <jcoxon> timbobel, but the lassen won't get a lock if upside down for example
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[20:56] <timbobel> but ehm, jcoxon, at least it CAN get a lock.
[20:56] <timbobel> !!!
[20:56] <timbobel> at least it's properly designed. and plus, just get yourself a sarantel atenna ($11) and connect it to the lassen youll have the same thing
[20:56] <timbobel> plus.. 12 channels, how many sats do you want to monitor!?
[20:57] <timbobel> 4 would be roughly enough for me
[20:58] <m1x10> kladol: you can disable all nmea output from the fsa and just poll for one specific sentence. this will make arduinos life much easier
[20:58] <m1x10> kladol do this at your setup():
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,GLL,0,0,0,0*5C");
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,GGA,0,0,0,0*5A");
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,GSA,0,0,0,0*4E");
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,RMC,0,0,0,0*47");
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,GSV,0,0,0,0*59");
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,40,VTG,0,0,0,0*5E");
[20:58] <m1x10> and then in loop()
[20:58] <m1x10> Serial.println("$PUBX,00*33");
[20:59] <timbobel> m1x10: arduino doesnt really care about that
[20:59] <timbobel> ;)
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[21:01] <m1x10> this will make the gps return a propietary sentence with the following format
[21:01] <m1x10> $PUBX,00,hhmmss.ss,Latitude,N,Longitude,E,AltRef,NavStat,Hacc,Vacc,SOG,COG,Vvel,ageC,HDOP,VDOP,TDOP,GU,RU,DR,*cs<CR><LF>
[21:01] <m1x10> the gps returns this sentence only when u issue the println("$PUBX,00*33"); command
[21:01] <kladol> timbobel -> why dit the HoHoHo1 made a fast decent, parachute ?
[21:02] <timbobel> i didnt put any effort into a long line between payload>balloon
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[21:03] <kladol> thanks i try that
[21:03] <m1x10> read http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03, "Polling the module"
[21:03] <timbobel> m1x10: i understand, it's a neat trick, but not more than that
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[21:04] <jcoxon> hey fsphil do you know what REQ_SYNC does in fldigi
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[21:06] <kladol> bb i'm ''QRT' seeY 73s
[21:06] <fsphil> hmm.. not sure jcoxon -- interesting bit of code
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[21:07] <m1x10> timbobel: having the gps outputting only at your command saves power/parsing
[21:07] <timbobel> oh come on
[21:07] <m1x10> his arduino is at 8mhz
[21:07] <timbobel> i still use the same batterys as on the hohoho I, seirously
[21:08] <timbobel> the same ones still work fine with my arduino
[21:08] <jcoxon> fsphil, as i'm working on the remote interface to fldigi
[21:08] <jcoxon> and am adding in some new xmlrpc commands to select the payload
[21:09] <timbobel> so allright lets settle on the fact that it's a neat trick, but the falcom stays the most fragile module. by the way, i wonder what GPS is in the iphone
[21:09] <timbobel> i mea
[21:09] <timbobel> i mean, i can get signals easily inside anything
[21:10] <m1x10> timbobel just put some glue and the antenna will stay thre
[21:10] <m1x10> there
[21:10] <timbobel> wait until it gets an impact
[21:10] <m1x10> lol
[21:10] <m1x10> timbobel syndrome
[21:11] <timbobel> ;)
[21:11] <timbobel> undeniably the atenna is a huge design flaw, too bad, because i thought it was really great in every way
[21:14] <timbobel> anyway
[21:14] <timbobel> why havent there been proper EU launchse!/
[21:14] <timbobel> launches
[21:14] <m1x10> I have a serious problem
[21:14] <m1x10> I need help
[21:15] <m1x10> ping SpeedEvil
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> ?
[21:15] <m1x10> my aprs is gettting overheated
[21:15] <m1x10> and stops responding
[21:15] <m1x10> and radiometrix module burns
[21:16] <m1x10> hopefully nothing is destroyed
[21:16] <m1x10> I believe the problem comes from the servo
[21:16] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: pong
[21:17] <DanielRichman> although I have to go soon
[21:17] <jcoxon> REQ_SYNC - what does that do?
[21:18] <DanielRichman> I would guess that's from threads.h ?
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[21:18] <fsphil> jcoxon, it's certainly some deep C++ voodoo going on there
[21:18] <DanielRichman> oh, qrunner.h
[21:19] <m1x10> deep C++ voodoo
[21:19] <m1x10> lol !
[21:19] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: it "requests" that the function, with the arguments passed, be executed in the main thread
[21:19] <DanielRichman> in order to provide thread safe access to fltk
[21:19] <DanielRichman> when the main thread is idle it sits waiting for Stuff to happen, user input, or another thread asking it to do something
[21:19] <DanielRichman> eg. in any thread, REQ(my_function, arg1, arg2)
[21:20] <DanielRichman> calls void my_function(type arg1, type arg2)
[21:20] <jcoxon> okay
[21:20] <DanielRichman> and that function is then safe to update the UI, etc. though it may run concurrently so you have to be thread safe (ie don't pass pointers unless you've strduped, etc.)
[21:20] <jcoxon> okay
[21:20] <DanielRichman> note that in order to use REQ you must set a THREAD_ID
[21:20] <jcoxon> i'm adding a function to xmlrpc
[21:20] <DanielRichman> see threads.h
[21:20] <DanielRichman> oo-err
[21:21] <DanielRichman> have fun :)
[21:21] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, as ive done some magic to make a clickable waterfall already
[21:21] <DanielRichman> I heard, sounds awesome
[21:21] <fsphil> nice trick with the waterfall btw
[21:22] <jcoxon> i'm just making a function to select the payload
[21:22] <jcoxon> as that'll autoconfigure everything for us
[21:24] <m1x10> gnite all
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[21:31] <johnnyfive|work> evening ;)
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[21:35] <jcoxon> evening johnnyfive|work
[21:36] <johnnyfive|work> Rather lively bunch. Everyone's head in the clouds?
[21:36] <jcoxon> thats pretty much it
[21:36] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:37] <johnnyfive|work> Well that's good, that's where everyone should be
[21:37] <Upu> working on it...
[21:37] <johnnyfive|work> You a HABer? Or just like looking at the sky?
[21:37] Action: fsphil is knee deep in code :)
[21:38] Action: Upu is knee deep in Styrofoam
[21:38] <jcoxon> johnnyfive|work, most people are on here
[21:38] <fsphil> yay!
[21:38] <jcoxon> mostly in the UK but also all over the world
[21:38] <johnnyfive|work> I'm in the US, just received parts for my first project ;)
[21:39] <johnnyfive|work> Lots to learn though, I feel like a kid again, with legos.. except... Cooler
[21:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:39] <Upu> yup that's my feelings too :)
[21:39] <jcoxon> johnnyfive|work, going for APRS?
[21:39] <johnnyfive|work> Yes
[21:39] <jcoxon> cool
[21:39] <jcoxon> we don't here in the UK
[21:39] <johnnyfive|work> APRS+Cell
[21:39] <johnnyfive|work> well GSM
[21:39] <johnnyfive|work> What do you use in the UK? Pidgeons?
[21:39] <jcoxon> not allowed to tx on the aprs freqs so instead have developed our own system
[21:40] <johnnyfive|work> I read somet about that, that's interesting
[21:40] <jcoxon> using low power licence exempt radios and our own distributed listening nextwork
[21:40] <jcoxon> network*
[21:40] <johnnyfive|work> That's really cool. So I assume this would be the place to ask hardware questions if I have them
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> A reasonable place, yes
[21:41] <johnnyfive|work> Don't have anything specific really atm, but that's good to know
[21:41] <johnnyfive|work> If you were to guess how many launches are in this room, what would you say?
[21:42] <jcoxon> ~50 probably
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> 50?
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> really?
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> I'd have guessed 20. But I've been a lot less involved.
[21:43] <jcoxon> well between me, eroomde and RocketBoy thats quite a few
[21:43] <johnnyfive|work> How many have you done jcoxon ?
[21:44] <johnnyfive|work> And do you have a site with information pertaining to these adventures?
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[21:44] <jcoxon> 16
[21:45] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk
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[21:46] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I suppose, yes. And the furriners have done a fair few too.
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[21:47] <johnnyfive|work> jcoxon, are you patching the GPS firmware on the telit modules to handle higher altitudes?
[21:48] <jcoxon> johnnyfive|work, no i added a seperate gps or just took it into account and made sure i reset it on descent
[21:49] <jcoxon> however i don't really recommend them as an individual module
[21:49] <jcoxon> they drove me a bit crazy
[21:49] <johnnyfive|work> I was just going to get it for the GSM properties, and not get the one with the GPS
[21:49] <jcoxon> yeah thats probably best
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[21:49] <johnnyfive|work> as a GSM module, are they good?
[21:49] <jcoxon> yes
[21:49] <jcoxon> i've used them quite a bit in that way
[21:49] <jcoxon> need a breakout board
[21:49] <jcoxon> as the header is tiny
[21:50] <johnnyfive|work> Are you familiar with the uBlox gps modules?
[21:50] <jcoxon> yes
[21:50] <johnnyfive|work> thoughts?
[21:50] <jcoxon> i'm a big fan
[21:50] <jcoxon> others less so
[21:50] <johnnyfive|work> oh good, so so far i'm making good decisions
[21:50] <jcoxon> depends on which board you get though
[21:50] <johnnyfive|work> main circuit board? I have a netduino
[21:51] <jcoxon> no i mean the gps module
[21:51] <johnnyfive|work> oh
[21:51] <jcoxon> the ublox is just a chip
[21:51] <johnnyfive|work> yea
[21:51] <johnnyfive|work> Was looking at the NEO-6Q
[21:51] <jcoxon> just as a seperate chip?
[21:51] <jcoxon> or on a pre made pcb
[21:51] <johnnyfive|work> seperate chip
[21:52] <jcoxon> oh right - making your own?
[21:52] <johnnyfive|work> Well so far, this is all a learning experience, so I don't see why not
[21:52] <johnnyfive|work> Unless you know of a pre-made that you recommend
[21:52] <Randomskk> netduino "good decision"?
[21:53] <Randomskk> :P mostly I'm just teasing about .NET
[21:53] <jcoxon> well there is the falcom fsa03
[21:53] <Randomskk> making your own PCB for the GPS is quite a lot of learning for the first flight
[21:53] <jcoxon> good price though wobbily antenna
[21:53] <johnnyfive|work> lol, well i'm a python programmer at heart, and I know C#, so the netduino has been perfect
[21:53] <Randomskk> you may be quicker and better off using a pre made PCB first time and thinking about just using the chip itself later
[21:53] <Randomskk> the design for antenna stuff is non trivial
[21:53] <johnnyfive|work> Randomskk, I'm all for using pre-mades, just as long as i'm learning
[21:54] <Randomskk> the rest is still pre made - as is your netduino
[21:54] <Randomskk> uh, I mean the rest is still your work*
[21:54] <Randomskk> but your netduino is pre made.
[21:54] <johnnyfive|work> ya
[21:54] <Randomskk> I'm not really sure what point I was making.
[21:54] <johnnyfive|work> It's ok. I agree Randomskk I don't want to get in over my head.
[21:54] <Randomskk> anyway fine the .NET can be forgiven for python. could you run ironpython on the thing?
[21:54] <Randomskk> not that you'd want to I guess. personally I feel that C/asm is for micros but anyway
[21:55] <johnnyfive|work> I don't know asm :(
[21:55] <Randomskk> easy to learn though, 30 commands total or so
[21:55] <Randomskk> depending on chip :P
[21:55] <jcoxon> battery at 4% - time to go
[21:55] <jcoxon> night all
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[21:55] <johnnyfive|work> I would love to get into it, but like you've been warning, don't want to try and do too much at a time
[21:55] <Randomskk> yea, very true
[21:55] <Randomskk> maybe for another flight. doing a flight computer in ASM is just asking for trouble really
[21:55] <Randomskk> C's nice though
[21:56] <johnnyfive|work> plain C?
[21:56] <fsphil> avr's are pretty simple when using C
[21:56] <Randomskk> plain C
[21:56] <johnnyfive|work> I can't stand C++
[21:56] <Randomskk> it's a popular choice for embedded code
[21:56] <johnnyfive|work> It gives me gas
[21:56] <Randomskk> C is rather different from C++
[21:56] <Randomskk> but it depends on why you can't stand C++
[21:56] <johnnyfive|work> I've never played with C
[21:57] <Randomskk> what don't you like about C++?
[21:57] <johnnyfive|work> eh, I just don't think well at the lower level I don't think. My mind is very object oriented, if that makes sense. I really do think just like python asks.
[21:57] <Laurenceb> ive had python running on the NGW100
[21:57] <Laurenceb> not flown tho
[21:57] <Randomskk> I would say C++ is very object orientated
[21:57] <fsphil> I wouldn't consider C++ to be that low-level
[21:58] <Laurenceb> got pyserial talking to the UART on the AP7000 AVR32 which was tricky
[21:58] <johnnyfive|work> Well that's the feeling I got from it. Way too much management
[21:58] <Laurenceb> had to recompile the kernel :-S
[21:58] <fsphil> Python is an odd language
[21:58] <johnnyfive|work> Is it?
[21:58] <Randomskk> C++ does make you do a bit of memory management but it's not something you typically want to find yourself doing often
[21:58] <Randomskk> used scoped pointers etc
[21:59] <fsphil> Python to me is odd because if the look of the code .. it just looks.. off
[21:59] Action: Laurenceb wonders if postscript export from gerbv actually work
[21:59] <Laurenceb> fsphil: heh me too
[21:59] <Laurenceb> c makes more sense
[22:00] <fsphil> yes
[22:00] <johnnyfive|work> hah, that's the opposite for me
[22:00] <johnnyfive|work> python makes more sense.
[22:00] <johnnyfive|work> like I said, my brain just thinks that way I guess?
[22:00] <Randomskk> eeh. I find both work really well?
[22:00] <Laurenceb> gerbv has been using 95% cpu for 5 minutes and still no postscript output
[22:00] <fsphil> depends on what you're used to I suppose
[22:00] <Randomskk> I can do C no problem for embedded stuff. or asm. equally I write C++ when I want high performance OO stuff on a computer/server, and python for a lot of things that work well with it, which is a lot of things
[22:00] <Laurenceb> its supposed to work...
[22:01] <Randomskk> scripts, utilities, website stuff, etc
[22:01] <Laurenceb> yeah i was working on image2gerber in python
[22:01] <Laurenceb> the image import and processing support is very easy to use
[22:01] <Laurenceb> beats c by miles
[22:01] <fsphil> I wrote a small app in python a while back, gtk interface - worked pretty nicely
[22:01] <Randomskk> yea, it's really fantastic for stuff like that
[22:02] <Laurenceb> simple stuff fast
[22:02] <Randomskk> arguably also well suited to complicated things that it makes easier to express
[22:02] <Randomskk> its syntax is really clean and simple and it makes a lot of things very easy. webapps are fun
[22:03] <Randomskk> then again these days my webapps are html5, javascript and that's it. yay couchdb
[22:03] <Laurenceb> oh i wrote a reed solomon decoder in python as well
[22:03] <Laurenceb> but with the way fldigi drops characters its next to useless
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[22:04] <Laurenceb> need to roll our own decoder to make that work
[22:05] <Randomskk> I think ed had some thoughts in that direction
[22:05] <Randomskk> he had the maths done but it didn't work in real time, last I heard
[22:05] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:05] <Randomskk> sounded exciting though. heck of an improvement on fldigi
[22:05] <johnnyfive|work> any of you guys used the FALCOM FSA03 that jcoxon recommended?
[22:05] <Laurenceb> i put some code together but kind of moved onto other stuff
[22:05] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:06] <johnnyfive|work> good experience?
[22:08] <johnnyfive|work> Looking at this picture i'm trying to figure out where you connect to the dang thing...
[22:08] <Randomskk> you solder the PCB
[22:08] <Randomskk> those bits at the edge are pads
[22:08] <fsphil> Laurenceb, I've got an ugly hack in dl-fldigi to pad out missing characters in the rtty modem, for the image decoder
[22:09] <johnnyfive|work> ah
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[22:10] <johnnyfive|work> Randomskk, how much was it?
[22:10] <Randomskk> I don't actually have an FSA03.
[22:11] <johnnyfive|work> oh, k
[22:11] <fsphil> I suppose the best way would be to have some sort of hysteresis, so the decoder doesn't lose it's timing when a character is dropped
[22:15] <Randomskk> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=10092
[22:15] <Randomskk> clever stuff
[22:15] <Randomskk> photodiode or an LDR or something to the serial port
[22:15] <Randomskk> bootload the chip by flashing a section of your screen
[22:15] <Randomskk> no cables
[22:17] <fsphil> aah that's cute
[22:17] <Randomskk> I know right
[22:18] <fsphil> the BBC did something like that once, for sending programs over the air during a program
[22:18] <fsphil> back in the 80's
[22:18] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:18] <Randomskk> it is quite neat. tempted to play with the concept
[22:20] <fsphil> double the data rate -- use colour, two ldrs
[22:20] <Randomskk> you could also use black/grey/white
[22:20] <Randomskk> or three LDRs and RGB
[22:21] <Randomskk> hmm
[22:21] <Randomskk> though you could probably just double the baud
[22:21] <Randomskk> eaiser
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[22:23] <fsphil> limited by the screen fps
[22:25] <Randomskk> true
[22:25] <Randomskk> probably not very high actually
[22:36] <fsphil> huh? -rw-------. 1 phil phil 23G 2010-09-08 23:35 .xsession-errors
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[22:49] <Laurenceb> fshil: sounds very useful
[22:49] <Laurenceb> ill have to look at the fldigi code
[22:52] <fsphil> it's not ideal, if fldigi thinks its found a byte too early it can mess things up
[22:53] <fsphil> better than nothing though, at least the error correction code has a chance now
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[23:08] <fsphil> night all
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[23:15] <johnnyfive|work> You guys (US/NA) recommend the EXtend 900s for RF? I found 2x XT09-PKI-RA for $200, and it's the best deal I can find.
[23:16] <Randomskk> blimey that's expensive
[23:16] <johnnyfive|work> For two of them?
[23:16] <Randomskk> but then we use 10mW modules that cost less than half that each
[23:16] <Randomskk> if the modules are good I guess you may as well
[23:16] <Randomskk> do you have some kind of amateur radio to receive on?
[23:17] <johnnyfive|work> No, that's why I think this is a good deal, it's 2 of them
[23:17] <Randomskk> ah
[23:17] <Randomskk> receiving with one might not be a great idea, though admittedly if they are sufficiently high power it should work
[23:17] <johnnyfive|work> it's the full product though, not an OEM module
[23:17] <johnnyfive|work> so i'll have to push more power to it on the balloon
[23:17] <Randomskk> the reason we get such incredible ranges is that we have sensitive receivers and directional antennas, so even 10mW transmit's not an issue
[23:17] <Randomskk> but the receiver complement to the transmitter we use could never pick it up
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[23:18] <johnnyfive|work> Oic. What do you use as a receiver?
[23:18] <Randomskk> amateur radios. personally, an icom ic7000, but the yaesu 817 is a popular choice
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[23:20] <johnnyfive|work> ah, those don't cover the 900mhz range
[23:20] <Randomskk> nah. we use 434.
[23:20] <johnnyfive|work> "we" as in euro
[23:20] <Randomskk> yea
[23:21] <Randomskk> 900 should work, but you get more free space path loss at the higher frequency
[23:21] Nick change: ms7821 -> ms7822
[23:21] <Randomskk> antennas are smaller, which is nice
[23:21] <Randomskk> also there are licensing issues
[23:21] <johnnyfive|work> idk much about RF
[23:21] <johnnyfive|work> I know this device doesn't require a license
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[23:43] Nick change: ms7822 -> ms7821
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 9 2010