highaltitude.log.20100903

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[00:15] <natrium42> hi juxta
[00:19] <russss> I didn't see this till now - Ares DM-2 solid motor test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDwHKZfvMk
[00:20] <russss> it's a bit crazy how they're still testing components for a rocket which has already been canceled.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> yes - well - it's valuable research.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Can you make a rocket out of solid pork.
[00:22] <russss> Mythbusters did that
[00:23] <Darkside> i think they used salami
[00:23] <Darkside> but it worked
[00:23] <russss> that's predominantly pork ;)
[00:24] <russss> I think the most impressive thing about the DM-2 test is that they chilled the whole thing down to -40 degrees
[00:24] <russss> which is probably valuable research, given the whole Challenger thing.
[00:24] <russss> I still think it's a stupid waste of money though.
[00:26] <SpeedEvil> Space-X is comparativly damn near free.
[00:26] <juxta> hey natrium42
[00:26] <russss> yes, quite
[00:51] <natrium42> juxta, i fixed the track
[00:51] <natrium42> apparently sequence numbers recycled
[00:51] <natrium42> so i order them by gps time now
[00:53] <natrium42> lol, who is chase_cat and chase_dog?
[00:54] <juxta> oh nice natrium42
[00:55] <natrium42> juxta, of course that requires gps time being correct...
[00:55] <natrium42> which may not always be the case
[00:55] <juxta> oh - so my payload seq numbers were being recycled? :S
[00:55] <natrium42> that's what it looked like
[00:55] <juxta> how odd
[00:55] <natrium42> although it didn't start from 0
[00:55] <juxta> I will check my logs
[00:56] <juxta> its all logged to SD so I can have a look
[00:56] <Darkside> not recycled on the horus 7 log
[00:57] <natrium42> hrm
[00:57] <natrium42> then who was bug?
[00:57] <Darkside> what are they stored as internally juxta? uint16?
[00:57] <juxta> hm, good point
[00:57] <juxta> I think so, yes
[00:58] Action: natrium42 looks again
[00:58] <Darkside> thats still about a good day of flying time
[00:58] <Darkside> 5295 logs for 3-4 hours of flight
[00:58] <Darkside> or whatever it was on sunday
[00:58] <juxta> I was thinking it might be worth limiting the number of positions clients download - at 300b we got over 9000 positions logged up on the tracker on horus 6, over 18000 on 7 - lots for clients to download
[00:58] <Darkside> haha
[00:59] <Darkside> juxta: where do you get your NXT2 modules from?
[00:59] <juxta> rfma.com.au
[00:59] <Darkside> id like to experiment with one of them - assuming i can get hold of a SSB UHF receiver
[00:59] <Darkside> been considering buying a secondhanf R10 or something
[00:59] <natrium42> juxta, yah, it's one line change
[00:59] <juxta> i wanna get an r10 too
[01:00] <Darkside> R10s are old tho
[01:00] <Darkside> R20 is the new hotness now
[01:00] <juxta> so?
[01:00] <natrium42> juxta, let's try it and see if it's annoying or not to have it load in batches
[01:00] <juxta> r10 has the gain control knob
[01:00] <Darkside> ahh :P
[01:00] <Darkside> i guesa adrian wont want to let go of any of his will he :P
[01:00] <juxta> we had a few people mention that it was crashing their browsers natrium42
[01:00] <juxta> too many points
[01:00] <natrium42> chrome is where it's at
[01:01] <juxta> perhaps the ajax should only serve up points if say the time between each is at least 10 seconds
[01:02] <natrium42> was it ever less?
[01:02] <juxta> Darkside, i doubt it - i've tried many times!
[01:02] <Darkside> haha
[01:02] <juxta> natrium42, yeah - I'm using 300b telemetry, so string come in every 2-3 secs
[01:02] <juxta> strings*
[01:03] <natrium42> ah wow
[01:03] <juxta> also - if there are say 5 listeners, does that equate to 5 points plotted on the track at the same point?
[01:03] <natrium42> juxta, try now, now it loads in 5k points at a time
[01:03] <natrium42> looks a bit weird :S
[01:04] <juxta> ah that works
[01:04] <Darkside> juxta: what pin are you using to adjust the transmit freq?
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[01:05] <juxta> but even 5000 points would be plenty to represent the whole flight if the number of points was scaled back
[01:06] <juxta> Darkside, you can drive the NTX2 from a varying DC input giving you a varying output freq - we just use a voltage divider arangement on 2 logic pins to generate carrier at 2 different freuencies tuned for an RTTY shift
[01:06] <Darkside> lol really
[01:06] <Darkside> so if you adjust the input voltage it shifts the output freauency slightly..
[01:07] <natrium42> juxta, the only problem that you always want the latest position to show
[01:07] <juxta> natrium42, true
[01:07] <natrium42> and it makes throwing away points hard, since it's a stream of positions
[01:07] <juxta> yeah
[01:07] <Darkside> just downsample
[01:07] <Darkside> takr every 5th sample or something
[01:07] <juxta> yeah but then clients streaming wont get the latest points as they come in darkside
[01:07] <natrium42> in the javascript?
[01:07] <natrium42> or on server?
[01:08] <natrium42> oh, i guess server could provide lates position
[01:08] <juxta> natrium42, you could implement it when theres say more than 1000 positions to download - that way it won't impact clients streaming
[01:08] <Darkside> juxta: downsample but work backwards from the latest position
[01:09] <Darkside> so the latest position gets sent, then every 5th or whatever sample going back from that
[01:09] <natrium42> Darkside, server could send every 5th point plus the latest data point at the time request was made
[01:09] <natrium42> then tracker would throw away that latest data point each refresh
[01:09] <Darkside> yeah
[01:10] <natrium42> anyway, not sure if it's worth doing at this time
[01:10] <natrium42> as new system is being worked on
[01:10] <juxta> true
[01:11] <natrium42> but damn, that's a lot of points juxta :P
[01:11] <juxta> hehe
[01:11] <natrium42> each position is actualy there a couple of times, once for each receiver
[01:11] <juxta> yeah i figured so
[01:12] <juxta> so with 5 receivers, lots of points
[01:12] <natrium42> oh right, that's another complication for streaming each 5 points
[01:12] <natrium42> multiple receivers
[01:12] <natrium42> and out-of-order positions etc
[01:12] <natrium42> :P
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[02:14] <SAIDias> yeah! new logo done!! http://www.w0otm.com/iHAB/index.html
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[02:59] <natrium42> SAIDias, Iowa, birth place of James T. Kirk
[03:01] <SAIDias> yes indeed
[03:01] <SAIDias> and Tom Arnold
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[03:55] <juxta> ping natrium42
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[05:03] <natrium42> juxta, sup?
[05:05] <juxta> i was just going ask you how you got those nice spherical looking panoramas on HALO :)
[05:06] <SpeedEvil> Printed them out on latex, and then stuck to the inside of a big globe.
[05:06] <SpeedEvil> I'm guessing.
[05:07] <natrium42> yeah, exactly
[05:07] <natrium42> but you could also make a cylindrical projection and then use polar effect in photoshop
[05:08] <juxta> ah good thinking
[05:08] <juxta> on both counts ;p
[05:08] <natrium42> hehe
[05:09] <natrium42> so in photoshop, first rescale the panorama to square size
[05:09] <natrium42> then apply the filter
[05:09] <juxta> alrighty - will have a play shortly
[05:09] <natrium42> :)
[05:09] <juxta> just in the middle of unpacking everything
[05:09] <juxta> taken me the best part of a week, hehe
[05:11] <natrium42> did you move?
[05:12] <juxta> i moved about 6 months ago, but I mean unpacking everything from this weekends launches :)
[05:12] <natrium42> ah :)
[05:13] <juxta> not a whole lot though
[05:13] <juxta> mainly just sorting out all the rubbish i brought home and freeing the radar reflectors from tangled line etc
[05:13] <juxta> the carputer makes unpacking/packing the car way easier
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[05:55] <m1x10> Good Morning
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[09:40] <RocketBoy> juxta_: PM?
[09:41] <juxta_> sure
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[10:05] <m1x10> hi alll
[10:06] <m1x10> sparkfuns SG5010 servo has Temperature range: 0 to +55'C
[10:06] <fsphil> possibly because of the grease
[10:06] <m1x10> does anyone use another servo? ( plz post link )
[10:07] <fsphil> m1x10, remove the grease and test it in a freezer
[10:07] <fsphil> it should be ok
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[10:17] <m1x10> thats a bug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sandia_MEMS_bug_1b.jpg
[10:18] <fsphil> tiny
[10:19] <m1x10> http://mems.sandia.gov/gallery/images/mite3-lg.jpg
[10:19] <m1x10> I believe that those things are already on my body :)
[10:20] <m1x10> getting laid with my skin :)
[10:28] <fsphil> well, as long as they're quiet :)
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[10:43] <kladol> hi
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[13:23] <Upu> Afternoon, quick question on the aerial for the NTX2. I guess I want a Quarter-wave whip according to the data sheet, 164mm in lenght
[13:24] <Upu> however I note people are using like a cross on the end of the wire, is this just a variation of this ?
[13:25] <Darkside> that would be the ground plane
[13:25] <Darkside> so you have a cross shape at 90 degrees to the actual quarter wave
[13:25] <Upu> oh right so the aerial is 164mm and then there is a ground plane I see
[13:25] <Darkside> this cross shape is connected to the ground
[13:26] <Darkside> all the radials should be a quarter wave too
[13:26] <Upu> do the dimensions of the cross matter ?
[13:26] <Darkside> yes
[13:26] <Darkside> well, actually not really
[13:26] <Darkside> but make it a quarter wave
[13:26] <Upu> so the radials need to be 164/4 or 164mm each ?
[13:30] <Upu> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4414039114_7fdb7eaaa4.jpg I see aerial extends down below the ground plane
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[15:06] <jshriver> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4414039114_7fdb7eaaa4.jpg
[15:06] <jshriver> ops sorry
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[15:11] <DHarvey> Hi, I'm completely new to this hobby and I was thinking of using a Nokia 5230 as the whole flight computer (logging GPS, communicating its location and even taking some of the photos). Any thoughts on this?
[15:12] <Darkside> data wont work in the air
[15:12] <Darkside> GSM has speed and range issues, and WCDMA just won't work
[15:13] <DHarvey> So I'd be limited to waiting for it to almost land before I could start finding it?
[15:13] <Darkside> it might work on takeoff and land, but as soon as you get up a few hundred feet/metres, it will drop out
[15:13] <Darkside> yup
[15:13] <Darkside> hence why its best to use some other telemetry system
[15:14] <DHarvey> Thank you.
[15:15] <DHarvey> Can you suggest a specific system or set of components?
[15:15] <jshriver> What is a good *cough* cheap telemetry system that sends gps location out?
[15:15] <Darkside> uhmm, theres many ways to do it
[15:15] <jshriver> was looking into aprs but it's pretty expensive
[15:15] <Darkside> project horus used an AVR based system
[15:15] <Darkside> with a 433MHz transmitter
[15:16] <Upu> if you're in the UK Arduino AVR+NTX2 is cheap and works well
[15:16] <Darkside> you'll need a receiever that does SSB on UHF tho
[15:16] <Upu> Yeah
[15:16] <DHarvey> Looks like I've got a lot of shopping to do
[15:16] <Upu> are you in the UK DHarvey ?
[15:16] <DHarvey> Yes
[15:16] <Darkside> the receiver will probably cost more than all the otehr components combined lol
[15:16] <Upu> it does :)
[15:17] <Upu> where abouts in UK ?
[15:17] <DHarvey> Gloucestershire
[15:17] <Upu> well I got my project mostly done before I had to get my hands on a transmitter to test the radio
[15:17] <jshriver> I'm in the states, was looking into that 433mhz chip and think it falls within our ham frequencies here, will need to verify though
[15:18] <Upu> Have yuo found the website DHarvey ?
[15:18] <DHarvey> Yes
[15:18] <jshriver> Darkside: yup, helium and transmitter is all of the ost, rest is spare parts and things around my house
[15:19] <jshriver> s/ost/cost
[15:20] <jshriver> how is the legality of using cell phones at high altitudes in the UK? From my understanding in the states its looked down upon because it hits so many cell towers.
[15:20] <jshriver> then again have heard similiar complaints about using aprs on HAB's
[15:20] <Upu> you're not really allowed but they don't work anyway apparently
[15:21] <Upu> not allowed in planes
[15:21] <Upu> anyway
[15:21] <DHarvey> I know a guy who frequently uses his phone from his microlite.
[15:21] <Upu> well yeah but he's hardly going to be going very high in a microlite :)
[15:22] <jshriver> what is a microlite? googling now
[15:22] <jshriver> ah small plane? nifty
[15:22] <Upu> like a hand glider with an engine :)
[15:22] <jshriver> hehe
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[15:23] <DHarvey> How badly would you say my chances of recovery are affected by starting the recovery post landing?
[15:25] <jshriver> nice city DHarvey, just looked it up, beautiful area. The St Mary Church especially. I really need to visit England/Ireland/Wales/Scotland someday
[15:26] <jshriver> DHarvey: are long as it's still transmitting gps location upon landing you should be ok, pending it doesn't land in a tree/river/roof/etc
[15:26] <jshriver> as, not are, can't type today
[15:27] <DHarvey> I think I'll probably have to take that risk.
[15:28] <jshriver> There was an article last year where a group of HS kids did a modest HAB using a cell phone and SMS for less than $150 amazing what they did.
[15:29] <russss> jshriver: IIRC the mobile phone prohibition only applies to commercial flights, which are more than 12 passengers, I think.
[15:30] <Upu> the landing predictor is pretty accurate DHarvey
[15:31] <DHarvey> That's good to know. I was trying it out and it looks like Gloucestershire is a pretty good place to launch from. How do I calculate ascent and descent rates?
[15:32] <Upu> well there are only certain areas you are allowed to launch from
[15:32] <Upu> NOTAM requests and the like
[15:37] <DHarvey> I found the form. I'll send it off and see what they say.
[15:37] <DanielRichman> what do you mean by "< DHarvey> How badly would you say my chances of recovery are affected by starting the recovery post landing?
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[15:41] <DHarvey> I was thinking of using a phone to locate the balloon but aparrently it will only work very close to the ground. I'm weighing up the risks of using it anyway because of the cost of purchasing equipment I don't have.
[15:43] <DanielRichman> these guys http://spacebits.eu/page/flight1report.html built the radio bits and then on the day of it just let go because they didn't work >.>
[15:43] <DanielRichman> DHarvey: IMO it's a bit risky.
[15:43] <DanielRichman> you could borrow the radio receiver
[15:45] <DHarvey> That's an idea
[15:45] <DHarvey> Thank you for all the help, I've certainly got a lot to think about
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[15:46] <Upu> lol that's not how I want my first flight to be :)
[15:46] <DanielRichman> I'm not entirely sure what they were thinking, letting go of it with half of it broken
[15:46] <DanielRichman> but meh.
[15:49] <jshriver> good raed, sad but good
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[15:55] <Upu> i love cock
[15:56] <jshriver> ?
[15:56] <jshriver> lol
[15:56] <Upu> ah work mates
[15:56] <Upu> brb sacking people
[16:05] <m1x10> omg
[16:05] <m1x10> ping Darkside :)
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[17:40] <jshriver> any other fun sites for hab? really enjoyed reading the spacebits one
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> you've seen rthe ukhas wiki
[17:42] <jshriver> dont think so
[17:42] <jshriver> !topic
[17:43] <jshriver> The XBee-PRO looks nifty, by chance anyone know if there are ones for use within the US?
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> the xbee also comes in 2.4GHz variants - which are licences for the US too
[17:44] <jshriver> hrm wonder what the distant limitation is, see the one above allows for 80km
[17:44] <m1x10> jshriver wifi can go very far. But for habing its quite impossible.
[17:45] <m1x10> you need dishes to achieve that height
[17:45] <m1x10> or at least some panels
[17:45] <m1x10> which will add much weight
[17:45] <m1x10> and it will have a fixed position
[17:46] <m1x10> on the ballon
[17:46] <m1x10> pizza time !
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[17:47] <jshriver> :)
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[18:28] <Upu> Evening quick question again sorry thanks etc : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg am I correct in assuming the 164mm length is as shown in scribble B at the bottom ?
[18:28] <Upu> I.e the aerial extends 164mm from the grounding plane, and the 164 mm is not from the pin on the NTX2 as show in scribble A ?
[18:29] <Upu> ignore the thing at the top
[18:35] <DanielRichman> Upu: your picture is upside down; well sort of. If you look at the top right graphic, "A" is the antenna, B-E are radials
[18:35] <DanielRichman> in some designs they point downwards a bit
[18:36] <DanielRichman> in your drawings A & B the ntx2 should be connected to the bottom
[18:36] <DanielRichman> while the datasheet is correct in specifying the distance from the pin, using coax to connect to an antenna sort of allows you to "suspend" that limit. let me draw something
[18:37] <Upu> I know it's upside down but my pictures are correct ?
[18:37] <DanielRichman> 1sec
[18:37] <Upu> oh sorry yes
[18:37] <Upu> so the radials should be 45' upwards sorry
[18:37] <Upu> but the question really is
[18:38] <Upu> is the 164mm from the ground plane or from the NTX2 pin ?
[18:38] <jshriver> is this a 2m antennae?
[18:38] <jshriver> I would think from the ground plane but I may stand corrected
[18:39] <Upu> its an antenna I need to make for my NTX2
[18:39] <Upu> 164mm
[18:39] <DanielRichman> yes, it's from the ground plane
[18:39] <Upu> gotcha
[18:39] <Upu> and is there any suggested length from the NTX2 pin to the ground plane ?
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[18:40] <DanielRichman> as long as its coax, it can be any length
[18:40] <DanielRichman> though longer lengths will attenuate it slightly
[18:40] <Upu> great ok one final question
[18:40] <DanielRichman> however it won't detune it
[18:40] <Upu> the radials 45' up or 90' out ?
[18:41] <DanielRichman> 90' is fine but apparently deflecting them a bit (to maybe 75) improves it
[18:41] <Upu> but not as far as 45' as shown in that diagram ?
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[18:42] <DanielRichman> no, I don't think they should be that far
[18:42] <Upu> great thanks Daniel appreciated
[18:42] <DanielRichman> but I am not sure
[18:42] <DanielRichman> I may be wrong about the deflection
[18:42] <Upu> well most people seem to do 90'
[18:42] <DanielRichman> yeah it doesn't *really* matter
[18:42] <DanielRichman> just like your antenna can be 160mm or 170mm and it won't blow up or anything
[18:43] <Upu> and they got their balloons back so thats good enough for me
[18:43] <Upu> lol
[18:43] <Upu> 164mm or bust :)
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[19:26] <jcoxon> evening
[19:27] <m1x10> hallo
[19:27] <jcoxon> another week finished :-)
[19:27] <m1x10> :)
[19:27] <RocketBoy> hey - jcoxon yo
[19:29] <RocketBoy> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tmysq/Coast_Series_5_Hull_to_London/ - 27 mins in
[19:29] <jcoxon> yeah i've downloaded it on to iplayer desktop
[19:29] <jcoxon> will watch later
[19:30] <jcoxon> my parents called me to say they saw you :-
[19:30] <jcoxon> p
[19:30] <RocketBoy> oh - wow - fame
[19:30] <RocketBoy> a coule op people I used to know in london emailed
[19:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:33] <m1x10> ping Upu
[19:36] <jcoxon> wow DanielRichman and fsphil you've really pushed ahead with dl-fldigi
[19:36] <RocketBoy> I have been looking at getting some balloons in from china - the unit prices are a lot cheaper - but the shipping is the killer at the mo - I was hoping that Upu can help me iut
[19:36] <RocketBoy> out
[19:36] <jcoxon> yeah those balloons seem to out perform the kaymont balloons
[19:37] <jcoxon> i'd be keen
[19:37] <RocketBoy> so the data says - it would be good to do a comparison flight
[19:37] <jcoxon> indeed
[19:39] <RocketBoy> with the default shipping they offer the 1600s work out more expensive than the kaymont-totex - but the 2000 are definatly worth a try
[19:39] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, even in bulk?
[19:39] <RocketBoy> (the totex 1500s that is)
[19:40] <RocketBoy> yes for a 1000 GBP order
[19:40] <jcoxon> wow
[19:40] <RocketBoy> (depends that you mean by bulk)
[19:40] <RocketBoy> the default shipping is over twice the price from the US
[19:40] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: the serial stuff works on linux and windows
[19:41] <jcoxon> looks like i need to make clean first
[19:41] <Upu> hey m1x10
[19:42] <Upu> hey RocketBoy get me some weights and dimensions
[19:42] <Upu> and I'll speak to the knicker company :)
[19:43] <Upu> you might end up with some free La Senza lingerie
[19:43] <Upu> its about £75 per m3 I think
[19:43] <RocketBoy> Upu - try 26Kg 50cm x 50cm x 50 cm
[19:44] <Upu> ok I'll ask on Monday
[19:44] <jcoxon> we should all get some new balloons and go for altitude records and clear out the record alt table
[19:44] <m1x10> lol
[19:44] <Upu> I have some mad ideas about heating the gas and stuff which probably won't work
[19:45] <m1x10> Upu: what was the time your servo was moving the camera?
[19:45] <Upu> unless anyone has a 10kW MASER lyaing about ?
[19:45] <Upu> how do you mean m1x10 ?
[19:45] <m1x10> I mean time interval
[19:45] <m1x10> you were moving it every minute?
[19:45] <Upu> you mean on the time lapse movie ?
[19:45] <m1x10> no not the cameras script
[19:45] <m1x10> the servo
[19:46] <Upu> I've not put a camera on a servo you keep confusing me with Rob :)
[19:46] <m1x10> oh
[19:46] <m1x10> :)
[19:46] <Upu> Icarus III Rob Harrison
[19:46] <m1x10> I think I might got some memory leak
[19:46] <Upu> indeed that's twice now you need a patch
[19:46] <m1x10> hahaha
[19:46] <DanielRichman> or perhaps some garbage collection
[19:47] <m1x10> lol
[19:47] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, compiles on OSX
[19:47] <jcoxon> don't have a gps to test right now
[19:47] <DanielRichman> hmm, bet it won't work >.>
[19:47] <m1x10> sometimes I even forget to eat
[19:47] <m1x10> anyway
[19:47] <jcoxon> its 'posix' complient i think
[19:48] <DanielRichman> oh yeah, I imagine getting it to work on OSX will be bazillions of milez easier than windows was
[19:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:48] <DanielRichman> have a look at configure-dl-fldigi-gps
[19:48] <RocketBoy> jcoxon - id you get your FSA03s then
[19:49] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, yeah - looks good
[19:49] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, i think they got delivered to my london flat rather then down here!
[19:49] <jcoxon> i hope so at least as i haven't seen them yet - eek
[19:51] <RocketBoy> ah - OK - I had a supplier ring me today (I left them a message days ago) - so I may have some soon
[19:51] <jcoxon> oh cool
[19:51] <jcoxon> yeah i've had very little time for hab
[19:51] <jcoxon> might try to do a bit this evening
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[20:47] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: youd like this - http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-06-24_cri-cri.asp
[20:50] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, very interesting :-)
[20:51] <jcoxon> good old sudbury tv transmitter :-p
[20:52] <RocketBoy> yeah - not bad range I thought - I think its about 75km from it to Orfordness
[20:52] <jcoxon> how did they extend the range of radar
[20:52] <RocketBoy> mind you its about 250KW ERP
[20:52] <jcoxon> as to tell the truth listening for that plane would have been easier ;-p
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - I did the numbers a while back, and came up with about more or less those numbers.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> I wonder why two props
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> I suppose redundancy, or unavailabilty of large motors
[20:55] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: well it was only supposed to prove the theory - the real RADAR used high power transmitters and directional antennas
[20:55] <jcoxon> hehe i see
[20:56] <jcoxon> very cool
[20:56] <jcoxon> was that a repeat of bbc2 as i remember you filmed it quite a while a go
[20:59] <RocketBoy> no its the 1st time its been aired - about a year since it was filmed - its a long time in the edit!
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[22:35] <Laurenceb> anyone tried the eagle "freemium" licence?
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[23:32] <russss> Copenhagen Suborbitals rocket has a 70% chance of flying on Sunday: http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/
[23:34] <jcoxon> thats a little scary
[23:34] <russss> it's terrifying
[23:34] <russss> and also awesome
[23:35] <russss> they're towing it to the launch site with their own submarine
[23:35] <russss> which they built...
[23:35] <russss> http://img.waffleimages.com/e2fe4a1876a7ba3ba8f510b1263802b6a69b5e23/ML235853_CF081790.forum.jpg
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[23:42] <SpeedEvil> It is awesome.
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> sort of shit I want to do.
[23:43] <russss> the distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.
[23:43] <russss> I think it's incredible that they've got so far on so little money
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Standing on the shoulders of giants.
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> And picking real carefully which giants.
[23:46] <russss> heh yeah
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> utterly ignoring ones that go for mass-reduction at any cost.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> It's in some ways more of a managment, than a simple engineering skill.
[23:49] <russss> shame I'm out on Sunday
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> 30km altitude and - say - 200Kg is a real nice place to start playing with second stages though
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> You're at the point where you're not stupidly small - so control gear mass isn't - terribly - important even in the upper stage.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> stages
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> And you can use moderately expensive stuff with a low budget as you're lowish in mass.
[23:52] <russss> yeah
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Say three quite modest stages to put a kilo or two in orbit
[23:53] <russss> I think they're claiming to be able to do suborbital flights with a single stage
[23:53] <russss> their motors look a bit uneven thrust-wise though http://vimeo.com/9810303
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> true
[23:56] <russss> actually apparently that's their previous model, Paraffin/LOX
[23:56] <russss> their current plan is polyeurethane/LOX http://vimeo.com/10309103
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Can't watch ATM
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Annoyinly. Will look at latere - internets being silly
[23:58] <russss> saw my third ISS pass this week tonight. Didn't manage to catch any voice downlink though
[23:58] <russss> it's always fun showing people the ISS for the first time
[00:00] --- Sat Sep 4 2010