highaltitude.log.20100901

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[04:14] <juxta> ping Darkside
[04:33] <Darkside> hey juxta
[04:34] <juxta> hey there
[04:34] <juxta> just about to post out the qsl cards for h6
[04:34] <Darkside> pong
[04:34] <Darkside> ahh
[04:34] <juxta> was going to see what you thought
[04:34] <Darkside> oh man
[04:34] <Darkside> use the pic from horus 7 and plot positions on them :P
[04:35] <Darkside> the pic where you can see the eyre peninsula
[04:35] <Darkside> IMG_2209
[04:35] <juxta> www.bogaurd.net/Horus-QSL-Card.png is what i put together
[04:36] <Darkside> hehe thats cool too :)
[04:36] <juxta> let me see 2209
[04:36] <juxta> that's a nice one
[04:37] <juxta> I havent had a chance to put them all up yet
[04:37] <juxta> need to do it today
[04:37] <Darkside> hehe
[04:37] <Darkside> theres a *lot* of pictures..
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[07:40] <earthshine> morning
[07:42] <juxta> morning earthshine
[07:42] <Darkside> good morning earthshine
[07:42] <fsphil> morning all
[07:42] <Darkside> the stars say hello
[07:42] <m1x10> morning all
[07:42] <m1x10> :)
[07:43] <fsphil> evening Darkside and juxta :)
[07:43] <m1x10> haha
[07:43] <Darkside> yep
[07:43] <juxta> Darkside, posted out all those QSL cards
[07:43] <Darkside> its 1713 here
[07:43] <Darkside> cool juxta
[07:44] <fsphil> ah Darkside, that's home time for me :)
[07:44] <Darkside> lol
[07:44] <Darkside> im still at uni
[07:45] <Darkside> considering hanging around and doing some work, but will probably head home soon
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[08:01] <Upu> morning
[08:04] <m1x10> Hi Upu
[08:05] <m1x10> I tried the display command in lua script lang
[08:05] <m1x10> And for my cam A480 it shuts down the cam
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[08:43] <Upu> ah that's not good m1x10 :)
[08:43] <Upu> seems to work on my A710
[08:43] <Upu> Having problems making it boot from an 8Gb card at the moment, I've done the switch thing but it doesn't seem to boot
[08:43] <m1x10> yeah, same button different functions.
[08:43] <Upu> I'll play round tonight if I get a moment
[08:44] <Upu> hopefully my pink gaffer tape should be turning up today :)
[08:44] <m1x10> :p
[08:44] <m1x10> I wrote my own intervalometer
[08:44] <m1x10> just doing shoot(); sleep(x);
[08:45] <m1x10> disabled all AF things and enabled landscape mode at 6MP
[08:45] <Upu> you have to get that screen off :)
[08:45] <Upu> or batteries won't last long
[08:45] <m1x10> after 10s is off
[08:45] <Upu> smart
[08:45] <Upu> ok afk
[08:45] <m1x10> my cams menu has that
[08:46] <m1x10> bb
[08:46] <juxta> i flew with the screen on the other day
[08:46] <juxta> still seemed to last plenty long :)
[08:46] <m1x10> with lithiums?
[08:47] <juxta> yep
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[09:29] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/hivis.jpg
[09:29] <Upu> :)
[09:30] <fsphil> the goggles, they do nothing!
[09:44] <juxta> ah is this for the famed pink payload? :)
[09:46] <Upu> indeed :)
[09:51] <Darkside> lool
[09:53] <juxta> I use pink string if that counts
[10:02] <jonsowman> Upu: that is excellent
[10:02] <jonsowman> hehehe
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[10:28] <DanielRichman> You know, the pink might actually be a good idea. It would help you find it in a field.
[10:28] <Darkside> do a night launch with a big flashing LED
[10:28] <Darkside> well, multiple flashing LEDs
[10:28] <DanielRichman> the only thing I could think of better would be phosphorus glow in the dark payload
[10:29] <DanielRichman> or flashy LEDs :D
[10:29] <m1x10> yeah a strong led inside the balloon !
[10:29] <Darkside> oh that would be cool
[10:29] <m1x10> will make it very sinny
[10:29] <m1x10> shiny*
[10:29] <Darkside> but when it comes down to ground the balloon will already have popped
[10:29] <Darkside> so it wont help that much
[10:30] <m1x10> hehe
[10:30] <Darkside> juxta: what would be the best way to set up a HF antenna for a launch? have it trail down, or run it up along the string to the balloon
[10:31] <Darkside> im still tossing up whether to use 80m or 40m for the payloa
[10:31] <Darkside> alternatively you could do 40m with both cable going up and down the string - make a dipole!
[10:32] <Darkside> i mean, cable going up the string and cable trailing down from the payload
[10:33] <jonsowman> hang it down from the payload seems most sensible
[10:33] <Darkside> yeah, could do a monopole like that
[10:33] <Darkside> wouldn't have a ground plane though
[10:33] <fsphil> I like the idea of both, and make the dipole
[10:34] <jonsowman> that'd be cool
[10:34] <Darkside> yeah, a dipole would be good
[10:34] <Darkside> means 40m would be best
[10:34] <jonsowman> you'd want 40m of cord between the payload and chute though
[10:34] <Darkside> wh?
[10:34] <Darkside> eh?
[10:34] <Darkside> a 40m dipole would be 20m long
[10:34] <jonsowman> oh i see what you mean
[10:34] <jonsowman> yes that'd be neat :)
[10:34] <Darkside> 10m above and below the payload box
[10:35] <DanielRichman> and the half of the dipole btween the payload and the chute would be 10m
[10:35] <DanielRichman> yeah
[10:35] <Darkside> the radiation pattern is a bit worrying, but it could still work
[10:35] <Darkside> since juxta has been using a vertical antenna for UHF and thats been working fine
[10:35] <Darkside> and thats on even less power, with more path loss than what i'm going to be doing
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[10:46] <DanielRichman> fsphil: I see you've pushed a few changes; does that now work totally with your GPS?
[10:46] <DanielRichman> w/o any hacking
[10:46] <fsphil> yes, but...
[10:47] <fsphil> arg ... one sec, got called away
[10:47] <DanielRichman> well with the only hack being the use of listen.test.php
[10:51] <fsphil> my gps is on /dev/ttyUSB0
[10:51] <fsphil> er, /dev/ttyUSB1
[10:52] <fsphil> but if it's configured for /dev/ttyUSB0 it obviously doesn't work
[10:52] <fsphil> but when I change the config to /dev/ttyUSB1 it won't work until I restart the app
[10:53] <DanielRichman> Right so it works but you can't change the config once it's opened a port?
[10:53] <fsphil> seems to be that way
[10:53] <DanielRichman> do you have - (I guess you're at work so no rush now?) - debug output?
[10:53] <fsphil> lemme test again
[10:54] <DanielRichman> it should say that "setup began", and that's the function that sends the signal
[10:56] <fsphil> dl_fldigi: dl_fldigi_gps setup begin
[10:57] <DanielRichman> what, and then nothing else happens?
[11:00] <fsphil> it seems to just continue as normal
[11:00] <DanielRichman> I see
[11:06] <DanielRichman> fsphil: the good news is that I can reproduce the error ;)
[11:06] <DanielRichman> fsphil: and I can debug this one
[11:09] <fsphil> yay .. I can't do too much here atm
[11:27] <DanielRichman> fsphil: fixed and pushed
[11:30] <fsphil> testing now
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[11:35] <fsphil> perfect!
[11:35] <DanielRichman> :)
[11:36] <DanielRichman> now, to make it work on win32
[11:36] <DanielRichman> fldigi already what looks like some x-platform serial routines
[11:36] <DanielRichman> forex whenever it starts you see that testCommPorts list; have been looking at that
[11:37] <DanielRichman> only downside is that if you plug something in after it has initialised the list won't be updated. Maybe I could change that, I don't know if I should copy the testCommPorts function or edit it and risk all kind of hell
[11:37] <DanielRichman> will have to double check exactly what it affects. It might be possible to simply call testCommPorts again and get the list updated.
[11:37] <DanielRichman> if so that would make the UI a lot frendlier
[11:45] <fsphil> looks like running it again is harmless
[11:45] <DanielRichman> my thoughts exactly
[11:45] <DanielRichman> I wonder why they haven't done that already
[11:45] <DanielRichman> would be a neat feature
[13:00] <DanielRichman> fsphil: I've upggraded the configure-dialog page for the gps thread ;) Next job is to get it to work on windoze (and perhaps mac? don't know if it will work out of the box)
[13:00] <DanielRichman> but first, sandvich. BBL :) tyvm for your help with this
[13:00] <DanielRichman> and I hope this doesn't cause more crashes >.>
[13:02] <fsphil> np DanielRichman, great to have this now!
[13:02] <fsphil> I can't test on the mac, but there's plenty of macites here anyway :)
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[13:18] <Upu> between you and me DanielRichman I decided to make it some fluoresant colour before I made the bet with you :)
[13:18] <DanielRichman> :P
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[13:18] <jonsowman> shocking
[13:18] <jonsowman> :o
[13:20] <DanielRichman> anyway hopefully that's the end of the chasecar gps, on linux at least
[13:20] <DanielRichman> fluid is awesome.
[13:23] <fsphil> the drop down is really nice
[13:24] <DanielRichman> I don't know why fldigi hasn't got Refresh buttons by the other three dropdowns for selecting serial ports
[13:24] <DanielRichman> because on all platforms I know they can come and go
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[13:26] <fsphil> is the clock on the server slow? the update time on the chase car seems to be about 4 minutes behind
[13:27] <DanielRichman> yes one of the clocks is wrong
[13:27] <DanielRichman> iirc it's RJH's
[13:27] <DanielRichman> spacenear's clock looks right
[13:29] <jonsowman> yep rjh's server is slow
[13:29] <jonsowman> clock-wirse
[13:29] <jonsowman> * wise
[13:30] <rharrison> one sec
[13:31] <rharrison> should be correct now :)
[13:31] <jonsowman> :)
[13:33] <rharrison> Upu, is that legal ( http://ava.upuaut.net/files/hivis.jpg )
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[14:05] <Upu> Haha not sure there any restrictions on bright pink in the air, however if there are please do correct me rharrison :)
[14:07] <Upu> fsphil time on Nessie should be right as it's using NTP
[14:07] <rharrison> Upu, hehe
[14:07] <rharrison> No there are no restrictions
[14:07] <Upu> :)
[14:07] <rharrison> It will be the first pink payload :)
[14:08] <jonsowman> how's the payload going Upu?
[14:08] <Upu> very well got the components now so just need to sort a PCB out
[14:08] <Upu> and make a pink box for it all to go in
[14:08] <jonsowman> good stuff
[14:08] <jonsowman> sounds like it's going well :)
[14:08] <Upu> how's the York NOTAM going any response ?
[14:09] <fsphil> Upu, times all correct now
[14:09] <Upu> I got some cameras as well now so just need to put it all together and test I guess
[14:09] <fsphil> Didn't they use pink on some spy planes during the war, because it was the most difficult to see colour against a blue background?
[14:10] <Upu> lol
[14:10] <Upu> and there is me thinking it would be the easiest to see
[14:10] <jonsowman> hehe I never knew that
[14:10] <jonsowman> surely blue would be more difficult?
[14:11] <Upu> they painted the bottom of fighters blue in the war
[14:11] <Upu> they sure as hell didn't paint Spitfires pink
[14:11] <Upu> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2007-11/8237.jpg
[14:11] <Upu> doh
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[14:12] <jonsowman> sexy
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[14:12] <fsphil> aye that's the pic I seen
[14:12] <Upu> rharrison quick question where do you sent the NOTAM requests ? Reason I ask is I know someone who works for the DAP @ CAA House
[14:13] <Upu> I have no idea if he knows the people who do the NOTAMS or could have any influence but he owes me a million favours so always worth asking
[14:13] <jonsowman> I guess the guy dealing with them is David Miller at the AUS
[14:13] <rharrison> Yep it's david
[14:14] <rharrison> But I would suggest that we let him have a rest for a bit
[14:14] <Upu> sure
[14:14] <rharrison> Upu, I'm happy to launch your stuff from Elvingtion when it comes through
[14:15] <Upu> That would be great, I'm happy to wait for a spot realise I'm a little late to the party
[14:15] <fsphil> rharrison, at the rate I'm going I might have to launch over there too
[14:15] <rharrison> That will have a 24/7 NOTAM for 6 months
[14:15] <Upu> lovely
[14:15] <rharrison> And it will be renewed
[14:15] <Upu> does it cost ?
[14:15] <rharrison> I'm thinking that we should get like 5 semi permanent places across the UK and agree to launch from these
[14:16] <rharrison> Upu, no ATM it's free
[14:16] <Upu> ok great.
[14:16] <Upu> And finally before I run off on site, anyone interested in these ballons from China that juxta was using ?
[14:16] <rharrison> EARS in Camb we pay 200 pound a year to the farmer
[14:16] <Upu> ok
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[14:16] <rharrison> and I'll probably get some drink for the guys at elvington
[14:17] <rharrison> Upu, be goot to test some
[14:17] <rharrison> What are the prices and sizes like
[14:17] <Upu> Going have a chat and get some across I think, I might be able to steal some space in a container :)
[14:17] <rharrison> Do they have a website?
[14:17] <Upu> 1000g-2000g
[14:17] <Upu> yeah
[14:17] <juxta> rharrison, yeah - hwoyee.com
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[14:18] <Upu> http://hwoyee.com/
[14:18] <rharrison> The totex site is crap
[14:18] <juxta> they have smaller than 1000g too
[14:18] <Upu> http://hwoyee.com/base.asp?scclassid=521
[14:18] <Upu> I have some mad ideas for the smaller ones
[14:18] <juxta> I used a 1000g the other day to get a 500g payload to 35.3 km rharrison
[14:19] <Upu> $22 for 1000g or something
[14:19] <rharrison> Cool how are they on price ?
[14:19] <juxta> yep
[14:19] <rharrison> juxta, hehe didn't see you there
[14:19] <Upu> lurking :)
[14:19] <jonsowman> we (CUSF) might grab a couple too if they are ordered over here in bulk
[14:19] <juxta> hehe
[14:19] <rharrison> I'm up for 5 1500's
[14:19] <Upu> so if I was to place an order people might be interested ?
[14:19] <Upu> ok
[14:19] <jonsowman> Upu: yes
[14:19] <Upu> leave it with me I'll get some prices and have a chat before I order
[14:19] <juxta> rharrison, the 1500's are quite expensive in comparison
[14:19] <juxta> may as well go for the 2kg
[14:20] <Upu> 38k :)
[14:20] <rharrison> oh what are the prices for those
[14:20] <juxta> this is the price they quoted me:
[14:20] <juxta> 600g USD10.36
[14:20] <juxta> 1000g USD22.41
[14:20] <juxta> 1600g (instead of 1500g) USD59.93
[14:20] <juxta> 2000g USD77.70
[14:20] <fsphil> not bad
[14:20] <juxta> i bought some 600, 1000's and a 2000
[14:20] <jonsowman> pretty cheap really
[14:21] <jonsowman> relatively
[14:21] <Upu> I'll have a chat later on with them I need to go do some work now
[14:21] <juxta> yeah, quite
[14:21] <Upu> cheers
[14:21] <jonsowman> cool
[14:21] <rharrison> Yep we should talk with steve randall
[14:21] <rharrison> aka rocketboy
[14:21] <jonsowman> rharrison: indeed, he might be interested in stocking them
[14:21] <Upu> ok will do
[14:21] <rharrison> Don't want him buying a load only for us to leave them for these
[14:22] <rharrison> I feel market forces at work here :)
[14:22] <jonsowman> heh yes
[14:22] <Upu> lol ok really afk now
[14:22] <rharrison> But at that pice I would happily paid in ADV for 5 1600
[14:22] <rharrison> Not sure that the 2kg's are worth having
[14:23] <rharrison> I think the UV actually limits the alt and not the balloon size. (exp. to date)
[14:23] <rharrison> pay
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[14:24] <juxta> would be interesting to measure it at altitude
[14:25] <DanielRichman> Good news everyone! The win32 sockets api is not only really easy to use but integrates nicely with the mingw fopen, fscanf, fgetc functions (!)
[14:25] <DanielRichman> s/sockets /serial ports/
[14:25] <fsphil> \o/
[14:26] <DanielRichman> No. it really isn't. This is going to be horrible
[14:26] <jonsowman> hehe
[14:26] <fsphil> [o\
[14:28] <DanielRichman> I think I will have to use a char [] buffer and use sscanf
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> rharrison: Suncream.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> rharrison: What happened to your idea of measuring internal pressure?
[14:32] <rharrison> SpeedEvil, I just need to get the payload up it's all ready to go save the NOTAM
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> So nothing other than extreme delays.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> I know how rthat goes alas.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> I've been trying to get something posrted for 3 weeks.
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> posted
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Transport problems, and low energy levels. Meh.
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[15:27] <Laurenceb> hi
[15:27] Action: Laurenceb was reading about copenhagen suborbital
[15:27] <Laurenceb> their rocket design looks pretty sensible
[15:31] <DanielRichman> hmm; this should make things easier http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ks2530z6.aspx
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[15:39] <SpeedEvil> the limited reading - it does look interesting, yes
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> not fundamentally insane
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[16:26] <rharrison> Yay, Icarus is going to be a Trade Mark in HAB
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[16:27] <rharrison> Not that I plan to enforce my TM rights
[16:28] <DanielRichman> The good news is that it works on windows! The bad news is that it only sort of works.
[16:28] <rharrison> Basically my company want to do a calendar and they wanted to register the Icarus name so they had an excuse to send the calender out the US lawyers :)
[16:44] <DanielRichman> fsphil: have found a side-effect of re-running testCommPorts
[16:45] <fsphil> bad?
[16:45] <fsphil> btw I had a segfault on startup earlier, but it only happened the once. I haven't been able to reproduce it
[16:47] <fsphil> brb, food
[16:48] <DanielRichman> fsphil: yeah windows by default doesn't let more than one thread/process open a file
[16:48] <DanielRichman> so if the serial gps thread has it open then re-running testCommPorts (which tries to open every possible com port aiui) will not "detect" it since the open will fail
[16:49] <DanielRichman> I'm going to try GetLastError() == ERROR_SHARING_VIOLATION which should detect it
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[17:00] <fsphil> nice
[17:01] <fsphil> I was going to test this now but my gps is failing to lock now
[17:02] <DanielRichman> ;'(
[17:03] <DanielRichman> don't worry, we've established that it works (sort of) :)
[17:04] <fsphil> it's getting the time, and altitude, but not position bizarrely
[17:05] <DanielRichman> interesting. I've managed to get a gps working (on linux atleast. Need to find a win32 driver disk, ironically)
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[17:18] <DanielRichman> fsphil: http://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/commit/eee2ab2e911e308d41c53db27b09952ef0f80134 brb, windows testing time
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[17:30] <timbobel> hi
[17:30] <timbobel> i had exam
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Go well?
[17:31] <timbobel> Brown Boys Reveal Young Girls, But Violet Gives Willingly
[17:31] <timbobel> 39/40
[17:31] <timbobel> see if i can request "PH4T"
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:31] <timbobel> or PA7AT, which is dutch for friench fries
[17:33] <timbobel> so yeah
[17:33] <timbobel> easy as crap
[17:33] <timbobel> although there was a guy that stated he forgot how to calculate with two resistors in series
[17:33] <timbobel> and there was a boy ~10yo that was crying cos he failed
[17:37] <fsphil> aww
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[17:41] <DanielRichman> all right! it's working! Still need to sort out this signals mess
[17:41] <fsphil> fantastic
[17:41] <DanielRichman> - I can't interrupt it while it's processing gps data
[17:41] <DanielRichman> but it seems to grab NMEA strings fine
[17:42] <DanielRichman> oh and my idea bout the SHARED thing didn't work :D
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[17:45] <DanielRichman> I think I can resolve the signals issues in wine
[17:45] <DanielRichman> wine's serial port stuff is broken as far as I can tell
[17:45] <DanielRichman> it's quite hard to get stderr output on winxp
[17:46] <fsphil> very
[17:46] <DanielRichman> but yeah, I found quite a nice solution in the end
[17:46] <fsphil> how broken? I got some basic serial stuff working in wine once
[17:46] <DanielRichman> it turns out that file descriptors are not enshrined in the kernel like they are on *nixes
[17:46] <DanielRichman> and as far as I can tell they're entirely a user mode thing
[17:47] <DanielRichman> so the windows syscalls that set baudrate etc work on a HANDLE
[17:47] <DanielRichman> but you can _open_osfhandle to "turn" that HANDLE into a file descriptor
[17:47] <DanielRichman> which you can then fdopen
[17:47] <DanielRichman> and finally fscanf ;P
[17:47] <DanielRichman> so, all in all, could have been much worse
[17:47] <DanielRichman> still, I could do with sigaction()
[17:48] <DanielRichman> be back later
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[17:58] <jonsowman> <3 compiz
[18:02] <fsphil> yay my gps has resurrected itself
[18:03] <jonsowman> :)
[18:03] <jonsowman> what happened to it?
[18:03] <fsphil> I have no idea .. no lock all morning
[18:04] <jonsowman> hmm off
[18:04] <jonsowman> * odd
[18:04] <jonsowman> which gps?
[18:04] <fsphil> fortuna
[18:04] <fsphil> got it years ago
[18:05] <jonsowman> cool
[18:05] <DanielRichman> compiz?
[18:05] <fsphil> why does the altitude chart on spacenear.us look like it's bleeding? :P)
[18:06] <jonsowman> i was wondering that
[18:06] <jonsowman> DanielRichman: http://www.compiz.org
[18:07] <DanielRichman> I know, but why suddenly <3?
[18:07] <jonsowman> heh I'm just playing with it
[18:07] <DanielRichman> fsphil: I can see chase_dog :)
[18:08] <fsphil> ruff!
[18:09] <fsphil> DanielRichman, I've added a button to save the current gps position as the operator's home position -- think it would be useful?
[18:10] <DanielRichman> interesting, sounds like it could be. Like in the current system, if they park up somewhere they could hit the button and the antenna icon moves
[18:10] <DanielRichman> we plan to change that in habhub but yeah, could be useful :)
[18:10] <DanielRichman> hmm perhaps a "stop thread" button would be useful
[18:10] <DanielRichman> fsphil: are you using my latest master?
[18:11] <DanielRichman> does the lat/lon display correctly?
[18:11] <fsphil> pushed
[18:11] <fsphil> yes!
[18:11] <DanielRichman> awesome
[18:11] <DanielRichman> I tested it a bit w. the gps that I finally got hooked up (to my windows partition) and it worked but I couldn't exactly go anywhere since it was tethered by a 5m USB cable to a large box
[18:12] <DanielRichman> which in turn was tethered by an ethernet cable and a power cable :P
[18:12] <fsphil> I'm heading out for a driving lesson in a few mins, might take a walk when I get back
[18:13] <DanielRichman> OK
[18:13] <DanielRichman> thank you for testing :)
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[18:22] <DanielRichman> pushed a Stop Thread button
[18:25] <fsphil> sleeping.. working well
[18:26] <fsphil> that's brilliant
[18:27] <fsphil> how do you merge, without the merge appearing as a commit?
[18:28] <fsphil> ack, brb
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[18:54] <Randomskk> fsphil: you don't, merges should appear as commits
[18:54] <Randomskk> if it can merge without making a commit, e.g. no changes, it will do a fast forward
[18:54] <Randomskk> you can --no-ff to turn off fast forwarding and force a commit, though
[18:54] <Randomskk> (which you should)
[18:54] <Randomskk> merge commits preserve history
[18:56] <DanielRichman> OK; I think that the gps fldigi code is beta-ready; though not at all release ready
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[18:57] <RocketBoy> I'm on telly shortly (not HAB related) - BBC2 coast - a piece on the birth of RADAR
[18:57] <Randomskk> :o nice
[18:57] <Randomskk> does it appear on iplayer?
[18:59] <RocketBoy> yes it will do - and HD later in the week methinks
[19:02] <Upu> hey RocketBoy got 5 mins for a quick PM ?
[19:02] <RocketBoy> na not right now - in about an hour
[19:03] <Upu> no problems :)
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[19:11] <thorirg> Heyhey! Who's an dl-fldigi expert? :)
[19:11] <Randomskk> what kind of question do you have?
[19:12] <thorirg> I'm launching next weekend and I'd like to use the upload function.
[19:12] <thorirg> Do I need to sign up or something?
[19:12] <Randomskk> ah, excellent, I might be able to help :D
[19:12] <Randomskk> you don't need to sign up or anything, but we do need to know in advance your telemetry settings
[19:12] <Randomskk> and what format your data is in.
[19:13] <Randomskk> then we, or you, makes an XML file that contains that information and put it online, so that people running dl-fldigi see your payload as an option on the dropdown#
[19:14] <thorirg> Ok, I see.
[19:14] <DanielRichman> and what the rtty frequency, baud, parity/coding/stop bits settings are
[19:16] <thorirg> Great, where can I get an example xml file to edit, since I don't know the format.
[19:17] <jonsowman> one of us will do the XML for you
[19:17] <jonsowman> we need the RTTY parameters and a couple of example telem strings
[19:19] <thorirg> Ok
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[19:24] <thorirg> Thanks for the help, I'll be back with the info! :)
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[19:25] <natrium> .is, nice
[19:26] <DanielRichman> Hope they've run predictions
[19:26] <natrium> maybe they want to launch more volcanic ash :P
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[19:38] <fsphil> back
[19:39] <Randomskk> fsphil: re git merging, ^
[19:39] <fsphil> just read that
[19:39] <fsphil> good point
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[19:55] <timbobel> oh hi
[19:55] <timbobel> who can recommend a heldheld rxtx
[19:57] <timbobel> ping ping
[19:58] <Randomskk> tbh the 817 is practically handheld
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[20:01] <timbobel> omg i already have that one
[20:01] <timbobel> and it wasnt cheap
[20:01] <Randomskk> no, amateur radio stuff doesn't tend to be
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[20:02] <fsphil> nah, and the 817 is one of the cheapest for what it does
[20:02] <timbobel> well mine was "cheap" and it was e300+
[20:03] <timbobel> so, i want a small handheld on 2m+70cm with good power
[20:03] <Randomskk> lots of wants there
[20:03] <Randomskk> yaesu and icom both make good 2m+70cm handhelds
[20:03] <Randomskk> they're not that cheap, but usually a bit cheaper than an 817
[20:03] <timbobel> yaesu vx-3
[20:04] <DanielRichman> and if you want it to you have to make sure it can do SSB
[20:04] <timbobel> meh. thats why i ask advice
[20:04] <fsphil> I've yet to find a good one that does ssb
[20:10] <fsphil> but if you're not using it for tracking, then the little yaesu's are perfect
[20:10] <timbobel> yeah i just want one for sending on 2m, for maybe putting a 2m receiver on pauload
[20:10] <timbobel> and having multiple radio's could be a plus.
[20:11] <timbobel> so its kinda gay having the same thing twice
[20:11] <fsphil> yea, having two 817's is silly ..... :)
[20:12] <timbobel> so any idea's
[20:12] <fsphil> my gps has died again
[20:13] <fsphil> there really isn't, not for ssb. the 817 is about as small and cheap as it gets
[20:13] <fsphil> believe me, I've looked
[20:14] <fsphil> if you want cheaper, you might be able to get one of the old yaesu's that only did one band but all modes. they're just as big as the 817 though
[20:14] <fsphil> --> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/750
[20:14] <fsphil> for 2 meters
[20:14] <timbobel> it's gigantic
[20:14] <fsphil> it's only slightly thicker than the 817
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[20:15] <timbobel> not portable
[20:15] <timbobel> i want something small
[20:15] <timbobel> i dont have a handheld
[20:17] <timbobel> yaesu vx6's got 5w output?
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[20:18] <timbobel> lol on hampedia they indeed say the 817's a handheld
[20:18] <Randomskk> it practically is
[20:18] <Randomskk> tiny
[20:20] <timbobel> but eh
[20:20] <fsphil> this can receive SSB, but I believe it's not sensitive enough for tracking : http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/thf7e.html
[20:20] <timbobel> if i want to send something to the balloon
[20:20] <timbobel> i dont need much i think, i could just point a yagi at it
[20:21] <fsphil> haha, "However, the TH-F7e has, let's face it, a terrible receiver"
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[20:22] <timbobel> :'(
[20:22] <fsphil> that's more or less it
[20:22] Laurenceb (~laurence@host86-137-224-95.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:22] <fsphil> unless you fancy building one
[20:22] <timbobel> just make my own 25watt version
[20:25] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://spacefellowship.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8086&sid=0cf36a422375e6181f5d0861ca8f6fc8&start=30
[20:25] <fsphil> timbobel, what power are you allowed with your license?
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[20:35] <Upu> Oh I thought it was going to be news about the new Dacia Sundaro
[20:36] <Upu> wrong channel...
[20:36] <griffonbot> @nearsys: I'm starting the script for a video short on the BalloonSat Extreme kit. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/22738646968]
[20:36] <Upu> Question (this is for this channel) how do I amend the text in Eagle on a Frame ?
[20:36] <Upu> i.e insert frame from library
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[20:37] <DanielRichman> you want to edit something that's in a library?
[20:37] <Randomskk> you could try breaking it
[20:37] <DanielRichman> that's true
[20:38] <Upu> well I've used a library part (A3 frame)
[20:38] <DanielRichman> use the Smash tool
[20:38] <Upu> let me try that
[20:38] <Randomskk> that's the word
[20:38] <DanielRichman> and/or the Name or Value tools
[20:38] <DanielRichman> failing that then you may have to edit the library item. Personally I clone it to a new library and then edit that
[20:38] <DanielRichman> the library editing interface can be a pain to find exactly what you want to edit
[20:38] <Upu> ok
[20:39] <Upu> cheers
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[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Looks like great fun.
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[20:46] <Laurenceb> yeah, their design looks pretty sensible, 73% mass fraction is impressive
[20:46] <Laurenceb> but if they just got rid of the graphite nozzle - its 20% or the dry mass!
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[20:47] <Laurenceb> also AIUI the oxidiser tank is too long on the one they are flying - they planned to use boil off the pressurize but switched to helium in high pressure CF tanks
[20:48] <Laurenceb> and AIUI paraffin wax is a pain to make work due to uncombusted droplets - probably explains the low ISP they got in tests
[20:48] <Laurenceb> will be interesting to see how high it gets
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[20:49] <Laurenceb> something interesting i thought of - use polypropylene honeycomb to line a pressure fed lox tank for insulation - then you can use CF
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[20:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.hexacor.com/products/datasheet.htm
[20:50] <Laurenceb> CF tank wall - 1cm of honeycomb - aluminium inner wall - LOX
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[20:52] <Laurenceb> didnt realise it was possible to run hybrid rockets at just 1.2MPa
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> I missed that it's so low.
[20:53] <Laurenceb> 1.2 chamber, 1.7 lox tank apparently
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> CF doesn't like cryo?
[20:53] <Laurenceb> explains the high mass fraction, but they get a low ISP at sea level
[20:53] <Laurenceb> yes, it cracks
[20:54] <Laurenceb> but with that low tank pressure they could do internal insulation
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> relogging
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[20:56] <SpeedEvil> hmm.
[20:56] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=carbon+fibre+cryogenic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:unofficial&client=firefox-a
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Seems that the above discussed ablative nozzle would greatly help their mass.
[20:57] <Laurenceb> i heard that thermal shock causes a lot of the damage
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> mass fraction
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Sounds plausible.
[20:57] <Laurenceb> yes - and prob less work
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Simple differential may be quite fierce.
[20:57] <Laurenceb> if they made a ptfe mandrel itd be easy to wind up new nozzles
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> that is - differential between the matrix and ...
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> You need to learn danish, and go yell at them.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:58] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:58] <timbobel> i just had 400metres reception with hellschreiber in the city
[20:58] <Laurenceb> neat
[20:58] <timbobel> i had fldigi on my iphone connected with remote desktop
[20:58] <timbobel> went outside
[20:58] <timbobel> well i felt i could keep on going
[20:58] <Laurenceb> heh cool
[20:58] <timbobel> love the ntx2
[20:58] <Laurenceb> can you install anything on iphone?
[20:59] <timbobel> sure there are tons of remote desktop apps
[20:59] <Laurenceb> is fldigi in the appstore?
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[20:59] <Laurenceb> or can you bypass the appstore?
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> no native code
[20:59] <Randomskk> he used remote desktop to VNC to his home computer
[20:59] <Randomskk> running fldigi
[20:59] <timbobel> well, if you're a developer you can put anything on it
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> It's all got to be interpreted
[20:59] <Laurenceb> oh got it
[20:59] <Laurenceb> sucks
[20:59] <Randomskk> android otoh lets you do native
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> no
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:00] <Randomskk> so some kinbd of rtty decoder would be possible
[21:00] <timbobel> BUT, (i tried too) apple wants $99 from you to use their SDK..
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> err - I'm confused, please ignore me.
[21:00] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> I have run fldigi on my n900
[21:00] <Laurenceb> bbl
[21:00] <Laurenceb> yeah n900 ftw
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> Works OK.
[21:00] <timbobel> ROFL
[21:00] <timbobel> r u serious
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[21:00] <timbobel> how
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> (install easy-debian-chroot, then apt-get install fldigi
[21:00] <timbobel> ah fldigi is for linux too
[21:00] <timbobel> but our hab-fldigi isnt right
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> In principle, it should just compile simply.
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> It's just gtk
[21:01] <timbobel> but?
[21:01] <timbobel> is the nokia that good?
[21:01] <DanielRichman> fldigi is fltk
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> There isn't a serial port - well not practical - and I'm unsire if tig control will work over bluetooth serial adaptor
[21:01] <DanielRichman> hence the fl
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[21:02] <SpeedEvil> rig cont
[21:02] <timbobel> so well, compile it for the n900 and then you can use it for habbin
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Yes - though you'd need extrra hardware for rig control.
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[21:04] <timbobel> rig control?
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> And I'm unsure exactly how the mic cable needs to be rigged - you need to fake a headset or use the stock mike. Or even a bluetooth
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> timbobel: fldigi can tune some radios
[21:04] <timbobel> oh you can do that yourself easily
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[21:10] <fsphil> not remotely you can't :)
[21:11] <fsphil> bah, networkmanager sucks
[21:11] <fsphil> did the walk test, when I got back the laptop had a network key prompt up -- even though it already knows it
[21:11] <Randomskk> D: it really annoys me when it does that
[21:11] <Randomskk> esp since my key is awkward hex
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[21:16] <fsphil> thing is though, if I cancel it it often connects fine
[21:16] <Randomskk> yea
[21:16] <Randomskk> that said I don't think I've had any issues with it since upgrading to 10.04
[21:17] <fsphil> fedora here, still on 12 -- too many issues with 13 yet
[21:18] <Randomskk> perhaps you should consider upgrading to ubuntu
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[21:19] <fsphil> nah, tried it one and didn't like it
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[21:41] <W0OTM> why am I getting this error.....
[21:41] <W0OTM> The server rejected the submitted form data: Server couldn't make a model from the form data
[21:41] <W0OTM> grrr
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> url>
[21:42] <Randomskk> W0OTM: what are you sending to? predictor?
[21:42] <W0OTM> yeah
[21:42] <Randomskk> what UUID does it get? (debug box)
[21:43] <Randomskk> predictor really needs a better error log to be honest, it's something I'm meant to do
[21:44] <W0OTM> Clearing previous map trace
[21:44] <W0OTM> The server rejected the submitted form data
[21:44] <W0OTM> I don't get one
[21:44] <Randomskk> curious
[21:44] <Randomskk> I take it you're not submitting anything silly?
[21:44] <W0OTM> don't think so
[21:44] <W0OTM> do it all the time
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Clear your cookies.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> And turn off your mains switch at the meter for 60s, then turn it back on again.
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> While singing the Macarena.
[21:46] <W0OTM> maybe ill reboot
[21:46] <W0OTM> stupid thing
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[21:58] <fsphil> I've got that song in my head now
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[22:01] <fsphil> any quick way of profiling an app in linux?
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> strace
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> or gprof
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> NAME
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> gprof - display call graph profile data
[22:02] <fsphil> thanks -- I used gprof once before, forgot about that
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[22:19] <fsphil> there's something in dl-fldigi sucking up cpu time and I can't find it
[22:20] <JackNorris> Iphone apps are not interpreted fyi
[22:20] <JackNorris> They do however run within a sandbox, which is easily worked around if you have a jailbroken device :)
[22:21] <DanielRichman> Does Apple look through your code to make sure it doesn't bust out of the sandbox?
[22:21] <DanielRichman> or is the sandbox in the kernel or w/e and it's not possible?
[22:21] <Randomskk> apple looks through your stuff anyway
[22:21] <Randomskk> for submission to the app market anyway
[22:21] <JackNorris> Not possible unless jailbroken
[22:22] <DanielRichman> I mean, people keep jailbreaking iphones by finding vulnerabilities here and there, so what's to stop you writing an app that deliberatly has a vulnerability of some sort and then using that to jailbreak?
[22:22] <DanielRichman> or am I missing something? do the Apple apps execute with some higher permissions?
[22:22] <Randomskk> normal apps don't run with root aiui
[22:23] <jonsowman> someone having predictor issues?
[22:23] <Randomskk> yea but he hasn't come back
[22:23] <Randomskk> 'server can't make a model' thing
[22:23] <jonsowman> hmm
[22:23] <jonsowman> that's either timestamp in the past, or timestamp >7days into future
[22:23] <jonsowman> i need to make useful error msgs
[22:24] <jonsowman> or it could be something more seriously wrong somewhere... unlikely though
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[22:25] <JackNorris> Thats correct Randomskk
[22:26] <DanielRichman> That sounds like a Bad Idea
[22:26] <DanielRichman> why not sandbox the apple apps too?
[22:26] <JackNorris> They are
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[22:26] <DanielRichman> oh sorry, misread
[22:27] <JackNorris> ;)
[22:27] <DanielRichman> Ok so why does a vulnerability in Safari allow you to jailbreak your phone, but a vulnerability in an app you write doesn't?
[22:27] <DanielRichman> why can't you deliberatly write apps and submit to the appstore with subtle vulnerabilities
[22:27] <DanielRichman> and use them to jailbreak
[22:28] <JackNorris> Well I guess its possible to do it in an app the same way as you could in safari... If you really tried that is.
[22:28] <JackNorris> I guess no one has a reason to implement that into an application if it can be done via safari ;)
[22:28] <DanielRichman> true that
[22:28] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I think the vulnerability was in something more fundemental
[22:28] <Randomskk> that safari used?
[22:28] <DanielRichman> the PDF one?
[22:28] <Randomskk> yea
[22:29] <DanielRichman> oh, right
[22:29] <Randomskk> not sure why a pdf reader would run as root though so I guess it was something deeply wrong
[22:30] <JackNorris> It doesn't
[22:30] <DanielRichman> "two separate flaws which could be exploited in tandem by malware written into PDF content"
[22:31] <JackNorris> root access was gained via an exploit in the IOSurface framework
[22:33] <JackNorris> back in the days of iPhone OS 2.x safari used to run as root iirc
[22:34] <sbasuita> no i remember the original safari exploit was 1.x
[22:34] <sbasuita> was a vulnerability in the tiff library i think
[22:35] <JackNorris> Yeah
[22:35] <DanielRichman> Running safari as root is kind of asking for it
[22:35] <DanielRichman> especially considering browsers are notorious for being secure
[22:36] <sbasuita> i'm pretty sure everything ran as root
[22:36] <sbasuita> i can remember updating my ipod and seeing the new 'mobile' user alongside root
[22:42] <JackNorris> in theory, you could get fldigi running on a jailbroken iphone and use the built in serial port
[22:44] <natrium42> dev license only costs $99
[22:45] <JackNorris> Wouldn't really do you much good to be honest, apple wont let you at the serial port "officially" without a special hardware certificate.
[22:46] <natrium42> guess so :S
[22:46] <natrium42> could use a wifi-to-serial bridge though
[22:47] <JackNorris> yeah that wouldn't be a bad idea at all, could appstore it aswell then
[22:47] <Randomskk> or use a real phone, like an android
[22:47] <JackNorris> eww
[22:47] <Randomskk> could write native C, access the serial port, access anything else without any restriction, and then app store it, all without paying anything
[22:47] <DanielRichman> you don't need to use the serial port do you?
[22:48] <DanielRichman> rig control isn't essential
[22:48] <JackNorris> i have no idea, i just heard serial ports earlier! :D
[22:48] <DanielRichman> just have the iphone app accept audio from the mic (?)
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> I wish that wifi was easy.
[22:48] <DanielRichman> then you could make an interface by hacking a plug-in mic
[22:48] <DanielRichman> if they exist?
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Well - easy and cheap
[22:49] <JackNorris> DanielRichman, yeah that would work
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> In that there were $15 modules that you diddn't have to do WPA/... in software
[22:49] <natrium42> i made a prototype for wifi-to-IR bridge for iphone
[22:49] <DanielRichman> then appstore an "app that decodes rtty using the mic"
[22:49] <natrium42> wanted to make an universal remote
[22:49] <JackNorris> haha, thats not a bad idea actually
[22:49] <natrium42> but never went further than prototype stage
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: how?
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> natrium42: I mean - using what wifi board.
[22:50] <JackNorris> I may have to steal that idea, I hate having tons of remotes
[22:50] <natrium42> SpeedEvil, gumstix
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Not exactly cheap then. :)
[22:51] <natrium42> it's ok for prototyping
[22:51] <natrium42> it would be a dedicated solution in an end product
[22:51] <JackNorris> Go for it, I imagine alot of people would be interested in something like that
[22:51] <natrium42> it's good to show something to investors :)
[22:51] <natrium42> JackNorris, well, there's something out now
[22:52] <natrium42> but it just plugs into the phone, so you need line of sight
[22:52] <JackNorris> ah
[22:52] <natrium42> but i think logitech is releasing a proper solution soon
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> BT-IR is probably cheaper
[22:53] <JackNorris> Yeah... another one on Steve Jobs amazing ideas... Lets lockdown bluetooth!
[22:54] <JackNorris> err of*
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[23:13] <Laurenceb> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_LwqZDVJfmSk/TH7ZSBcbt6I/AAAAAAAAHGc/74GEZsrXrVk/s720/HEAT_Nexoe-52.jpg
[23:13] <Laurenceb> ^ sweet
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> yup
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> And when you look at what - 200kg - of 'payload' to 100km/0 - you're no longer looking at a really teeny payload to orbit.
[23:15] <Laurenceb> yeah - i was thinking if they stick one or two more stages on top
[23:15] <Laurenceb> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_LwqZDVJfmSk/TH7Y06F8S8I/AAAAAAAAHF0/u6bqcxptqfU/s720/HEAT_Nexoe-16.jpg
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> comms?
[23:16] <Laurenceb> dunno - apparently thats just tracking
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> Or is that an optical emitter
[23:17] <Randomskk> a radar locator thing
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about that
[23:17] <Randomskk> someone donated it to them
[23:17] <Randomskk> you can see the other end in the window of the rocket thing
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> sun + nice bright laser emitter on ground as absolute ref
[23:17] <Laurenceb> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_LwqZDVJfmSk/TGG3xJKQ9hI/AAAAAAAAG2w/2sEs1RXo_xY/s512/Stacking-59.jpg
[23:17] <Laurenceb> looks like the fuel section bolts on
[23:18] <Laurenceb> they say 4000 euros for the fuel + lox per launch
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Sounds plausible
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> don't they need another nozzle?
[23:18] <Laurenceb> aha - revious photos you can see where the lox nozzle goes in
[23:18] <Laurenceb> graphite should last a few firings
[23:19] <Laurenceb> gtg, cya
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[23:19] <SpeedEvil> wave
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 2 2010